Tanking required for raids
It doesnt exist? there is no reliable taunt function, everyone manages aggro, please stop
sited source is a dev team post. taunt has been added as a function. also you can read under “aggro” in the official gw2 wiki that players vitality and toughness stats affect mob agro.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro#Mechanics
“if a player has a high amount of toughness/vitality and wears a shield, they could hit the mob just once and have unrivaled aggro from the mob.” under Internals in agro wiki
(edited by Warlock.7136)
also on the idea that taunt doesn’t exist. here is the official wiki page on that.
If you have seen any videos about the raid you would have seen that agro-management actually has a place there. The boss mainly follows the character with the highest toughness so one person influences to what extent the boss moves around and where he moves to. This person is also subject to more attacks from the boss and thus not only needs stats to hold agro but also skills to keep alive.
However, this doesn’t mean that the person should wear Nomad’s gear or anything crazy like that. Knight’s is probably fine. The rage timer means that all character should contribute enough damage that the boss dies before the timer reaches 0, this includes the ‘tank’ so going full defensive is not an option.
(edited by Diovid.9506)
I believe what it means is that you have more viability with tanking (As with healing) but it will not be required in any shape. Required would be a situation in which if you do not have a tank you cannot complete that part of the game. It would be impossible with no work around it. With HoT you can get a little taste of tanking to call it so but alas the function is not indispensable.
As for the taunt, it merely changes the focus of the enemy on you for a brief time (1-2s). It can even be dodged, and mobs in HoT will be dodging. Think of it this way: you see a mesmer with 1HP and a mob ready to hit him. You taunt and in the second the mob would hit, he instead turns towards you. The mesmer escapes and that’s your tanking in Guild Wars 2. I like to call it mobile aegis lol.
Although with HoT healing and tanking will see more viability in order for them to be enjoyed as play styles, they will never be required as that would create the holy trinity. And Anet does not want such a thing.
In the end, will you be more viable than pre-HoT? Yes. Will you be needed with this play style somewhere? No.
Have a great day!
“and some encounters may even REQUIRE a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back. "
the word is there and in the context I referred to it. required for raid content.
as for nomad vs cleric vs soldier vs knight. of course your tanking gear has flavors, but any high toughness gear would count as tank gear in my mind.
(edited by Warlock.7136)
I think anet has given up on the no trinity thing. as we now have a spec that is basically a dedicated healer role in HoT=druid(which we were previously told wouldn’t happen)
They always wanted a soft trinity not a kittene. The AI of the mobs up until HoT was pathetic thus DPS only could do everything with no sweat. (even though even in that situations all members supported each other through different means). The difference between the two is that if I do not want a healer/tank in my party, I get good and do the raid without. And it will be possible unlike a hard trinity where if you do not have a healer/tank you cannot do the content. At all. Never ever. No matter how perfect you are. You just can’t.
That kind of trinity does not have a place in this game and even some of the people that always wanted a tank/healer do not want that hard trinity, but what’s coming with HoT. I am sorry Warlock, but if you want the kind of indispensable tank that would be needed in a party and people fully depend on it to complete the raid, there will not be such a thing. If not, and you want a soft trinity as well, I am sure you will enjoy HoT big time!
first off well said. all I am really looking for is a way to play in the playstyle I enjoy, defensive. be that a healer or a quasi-tank. not all players enjoy being 1 shot prone glass cannons that die if you sneeze in their general direction. it is frustrating to watch your groups wipe repeatedly because they are high dps that can take no damage. when you know that a balanced group wouldn’t have wiped. Everyone claims gw2 is play your way. but on some content it’s not. it’s play the glass cannon or don’t get a group. this is something anet has officially acknowledged before. I don’t want to force players to play my way. I just want everyone’s characters to be accepted for how they play regardless of build. one way this could happen would be to add an icon at the top of the screen for raids and then you click it/which raid you want. this would queue you up and bang raids handled the same way pvp groups are. again I don’t want to kill off all dps players they deserve their playtime in their style. I just want defensive and utility styles accepted as valid forms for all content. and so I wait to see if HoT will do what anet says it will. expand group diversity.
I’m planning to do some raid tanking with the new Thief Espec Daredevil. They get some awesome tools to mitigate and avoid damage while staying right up in a boss’ face.
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
Sorry I worded my post as bluntly as I did but Lux seems to have communicated what I was thinking there will never be a hard tank/healer/DPS but rather further improvement on the soft trinity this game has always had.
I mean Anets goal with Hot was to encourage build diversity. As for taunt, I’ve known it’s been in the game what I’m saying the taunt in this game isn’t dedicated to the tanking your thinking of but rather as Lux described it to get a team member out of a situation ASAP.
Revenants can keep up taunt on non-player characters almost permanently with Forced Engagement, Improved Aggression, and Eye for an Eye. Unsurprisingly this all comes from a legend that’s basically made for tanking.
I wouldn’t be surprised if runes/sigils for enhancing taunt are made either.
“and some encounters may even REQUIRE a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back. "
Interesting how you choose to focus on one specific word, when there is another, just as important, word more or less right next to it. I have bolded it for you.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Is it confirmed that taunt goes through a breakbar? Because basically its just a status effect like an stun so it should damage the break bar instead of actually taunting bosses.
(And I think in the Wyvern fights you also saw that the Wyvern was not really interested in the taunting Revs)
on the forums in the past I have been accused of making up quotes by arenanet(which is entirely false) so as this is one of the quotes in question that players have said never happened I would just like to post it’s source here
“Some encounters are going to push you to try different weapons you rarely use, some are going to challenge you to select traits you haven’t considered equipping before, and some encounters may even require a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back. " anet talking about raids requiring tank type builds.
you can find this quote in
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/designing-challenging-content/
I main a tank for me this is a long overdue content. in several map chats I have been told this does not exist. thank you for your time reading this.
Op this never happen. This quote is a conspiracy of the Twilight Zone. Please stand by
I believe what it means is that you have more viability with tanking (As with healing) but it will not be required in any shape. Required would be a situation in which if you do not have a tank you cannot complete that part of the game. It would be impossible with no work around it. With HoT you can get a little taste of tanking to call it so but alas the function is not indispensable.
As for the taunt, it merely changes the focus of the enemy on you for a brief time (1-2s). It can even be dodged, and mobs in HoT will be dodging. Think of it this way: you see a mesmer with 1HP and a mob ready to hit him. You taunt and in the second the mob would hit, he instead turns towards you. The mesmer escapes and that’s your tanking in Guild Wars 2. I like to call it mobile aegis lol.
Although with HoT healing and tanking will see more viability in order for them to be enjoyed as play styles, they will never be required as that would create the holy trinity. And Anet does not want such a thing.
In the end, will you be more viable than pre-HoT? Yes. Will you be needed with this play style somewhere? No.
Have a great day!
“and some encounters may even REQUIRE a member of your group to dust off that toughness gear to bulk up and tank some heavy hits to protect the condition-build players in the back. "
the word is there and in the context I referred to it. required for raid content.
as for nomad vs cleric vs soldier vs knight. of course your tanking gear has flavors, but any high toughness gear would count as tank gear in my mind.
I hate logic. Please stop.
joking aside, this should have been known by now.
There ABSOLUTELY is tanking in the raids, anyone who’s tried them or seen them knows this. It isn’t based on Taunts, it’s based on Toughness. There have for a long time now been enemies in GW2 who use player toughness as a factor in their aggro table, while others just attack who’s closest or who does the most damage (commonly it’s a combination on the two). In at least the first boss of the raid the boss always attacks the player with the highest toughness. This mechanic is important too, because the boss is melee only and he needs to be moved around the platform so he’s not standing on a lit up part of it. Don’t think that this is just a boring way of building in tanking either – you can change your toughness in combat, and aggro could be traded (for example) between two Heralds by matching or near-matching their toughness and using the trait that gives you toughness for each upkeep point in use.
Duhsziu – Revenant
Polyscia – Elementalist
Mercedene Underfoot – Thief
Polyscia – Elementalist
Mercedene Underfoot – Thief
Tanking in GW2 does not mean the same thing as in other games. In this game, it means building for more sustain. That is all. In other games, it means using special skills to hold aggro to prevent the mob from targeting others. In GW2, anyone can tank with the right skills, traits, and equipment. In other games, a profession is designed to capture and hold aggro to increase party dps. Not one profession in GW2 can do that and it is not at all necessary in PvE. Here, all professions can survive running berserker gear. In another game, all professions wearing berserker gear would die without a dedicated tank to hold aggro and external heals to support the tank.
Taunting is not the same as taunting in other games.
For example a taunt does not mean you pull agro to yourself, it means the mob or player that has been taunted targets a different target, that target may or may not be the person taunting. So if that Mesmer with 1 hp is about to be obliterated and you use taunt the mob may turn around and smack the Ele instead, it does not mean the tank will pull aggro.
Taunting is not the same as taunting in other games.
For example a taunt does not mean you pull agro to yourself, it means the mob or player that has been taunted targets a different target, that target may or may not be the person taunting. So if that Mesmer with 1 hp is about to be obliterated and you use taunt the mob may turn around and smack the Ele instead, it does not mean the tank will pull aggro.
Not sure where you read that, but taunting in this makes the target run towards and attack the taunter.
Tanking in GW2 does not mean the same thing as in other games. In this game, it means building for more sustain. That is all. In other games, it means using special skills to hold aggro to prevent the mob from targeting others.
Toughness by itself increases aggro, and taunting supposedly forces an enemy to target you, although I’m not sure how that’d function with break bars.
(edited by Fashion Mage.3712)
Taunting is not the same as taunting in other games.
For example a taunt does not mean you pull agro to yourself, it means the mob or player that has been taunted targets a different target, that target may or may not be the person taunting. So if that Mesmer with 1 hp is about to be obliterated and you use taunt the mob may turn around and smack the Ele instead, it does not mean the tank will pull aggro.
Not sure where you read that, but taunting in this makes the target run towards and attack the taunter.
Tanking in GW2 does not mean the same thing as in other games. In this game, it means building for more sustain. That is all. In other games, it means using special skills to hold aggro to prevent the mob from targeting others.
Toughness by itself increases aggro, and taunting supposedly forces an enemy to target you, although I’m not sure how that’d function with break bars.
The bolded part isn’t actually true (despite what the wiki might say), not sure if this is a bug or just should read: “has a chance of”.
I used 2-3 different Taunts (Jalis from Revenant, Pet taunt on Ranger) and the mob only sometimes decide to attack the player. Even if you double taunt, it doesn’t always turn the mob.
Taunting is not the same as taunting in other games.
For example a taunt does not mean you pull agro to yourself, it means the mob or player that has been taunted targets a different target, that target may or may not be the person taunting. So if that Mesmer with 1 hp is about to be obliterated and you use taunt the mob may turn around and smack the Ele instead, it does not mean the tank will pull aggro.
Not sure where you read that, but taunting in this makes the target run towards and attack the taunter.
Tanking in GW2 does not mean the same thing as in other games. In this game, it means building for more sustain. That is all. In other games, it means using special skills to hold aggro to prevent the mob from targeting others.
Toughness by itself increases aggro, and taunting supposedly forces an enemy to target you, although I’m not sure how that’d function with break bars.
The bolded part isn’t actually true (despite what the wiki might say), not sure if this is a bug or just should read: “has a chance of”.
I used 2-3 different Taunts (Jalis from Revenant, Pet taunt on Ranger) and the mob only sometimes decide to attack the player. Even if you double taunt, it doesn’t always turn the mob.
This, whether it is intentional or not is another story, currently it’s not always turning its target to the Taunter, it’s just picking up a new target. Maybe it’s a bug, maybe it’s intentional, only Anet knows I guess. They did say it was not going to function as a Taunt in the essence of pulling aggro so maybe it is intentional.
As far as i can tell, Taunt in GW2 is like a reverse Fear. It does not factor into the aggro table. I would love to be proven wrong though.
In GW2, aggro is predominantly toughness based, which is ludicrous because toughness actually reduces a player’s threat level while not mitigating enough incoming damage to justify the stat. That is the reason for the zerker meta.
Go berserker in PvE for more damage and more sustain. Either the aggro formula is off and punishes bunkers, or the damage reduction scaling for toughness is off, also punishing bunkers.
Arenanet should re-examine how their AI determines threat level because, right now, there is poor incentive in PvE to wear anything but damaging stat’s.