Guild Wars 2

Anet, I want to thank you. Not Ironically or sarcastically. I am filled with genuine feelings of joy now that I have read you are adding the ability to taunt. Many people might cry ‘but no, no trinity in gw2!’ but lets face it. There was always the trinity ( DPS, Tank, Healer), but everyone was just DPS

Why do people sometimes say PvE is boring? Mostly because there is only 1 strategy: Deal damage and revive people till the monster is dead. With taunt you have intentionally or unintentionally, made toughness stronger. I know some people who will be very happy to know that now they can spec for Toughness Vitality and Healing and feel like there is a place for them.

Thank you again. Really. This has made my day.

I think you people are really overestimating this. Creatures can also use it against players, all it is, is a new CC. And thus would be ignored by stability and defiance.

Lazaar.9123:

I think you people are really overestimating this. Creatures can also use it against players, all it is, is a new CC. And thus would be ignored by stability and defiance.

“you people” !?!

Jaxom.7310:

Lazaar.9123:

I think you people are really overestimating this. Creatures can also use it against players, all it is, is a new CC. And thus would be ignored by stability and defiance.

“you people” !?!

The people wanting tanks.

Yeah, it’s a new CC. The thing to remember is not that GW2 ignores the trinity, or that we’re all DPS, it’s that the trinity is an artificial enforcement of something that is much more fluid realistically, and GW2’s goal is to play it that way.

And it’s not just real life. Before MMOs, did you read any fiction where a warrior could literally force a target to attack him over his party with just a nonmagical word? And he had to because he could take a dragon stepping on him, but the rest of his party would go down if the monsters so much as looked at them funny?

Yes, there are people who can take more hits than other people, and there are people who focus on keeping their allies healthy, but those aren’t hard and fast roles within a system that pretty much has to be run that way or fail. In a real war, there are armored units and medics, but nothing magically forces people to attack the armored units exclusively, and if they managed to ignore them they wouldn’t instantly win.

GW2 isn’t saying that you can’t take more hits or assist your allies. GW2 is about a situation where you’re all in the fight together, and you have to approach each enemy tactically, not with some etiquette that the dragon will only attack the only guy who can take it.

Lazaar.9123:

I think you people are really overestimating this. Creatures can also use it against players, all it is, is a new CC. And thus would be ignored by stability and defiance.

Defiance will be getting a rework, so we don’t know how CCs will be handled in pve after HoT.

This is far bigger then it seems people.

The real deal here is “why taunt exists?” And one of the possible answers would be “because A.I will no longer play game by your rules and nicely bunch up on one target, for AoE to smite them”. Just as defiant strongly encourages cooridination in using your cc as a group, taunt might be implication you’ll now have to coordinate taunts to position enemies to your advantage or get them off that one player that’s clearly next to fall.

TL;DR
Taunt may mean enemies will no longer be brainless and you’ll have to use taunt to keep their much more lethal A.I in check. And lack of proper A.I is the number one reason PvE meta is the monotonous “zerk or go home”.

Tanks only exist because of bad monster AI. Which is why games that have them end up doing ridiculous convolutions when these ‘tank’ characters are basically a sick joke in PvP.

I really don’t see introducing “mind controlled into hitting the guy MOST able to take it” as really improving any game, honestly. It just forces the enemy to act even dumber.

I feel bad for when all these trinity supporters realize it’s nothing like what they want. lol

Taunt is a CC, not an aggro mechanic. Re-read it.

The way its implemented is specifically to bust up the murderball formations that trivialize most of the pve content, and give melee specs additional and interesting cc that synergizes with rather than conflicts with their weapon sets.

For example: if you’re running a melee warrior, and you want some interrupt on your utility bar. Well, you could use fear me, but it’s a giant pain in the kitten , as you’re forced to use a mobility skill just to catch back up with the guy you just interrupted. On the flip side, if you’re running a ranged build, fear me has much better synergy as you’re trying to maintain distance. The addition of taunt (AKA Bizarro-fear), allows more build options and better skill synergy.

On top of that, mobs are going to use it on you, and I’d imagine that’s going to be pretty heavily abused by encounter and monster designs to break up the ‘all DPS IN A CORNER’ boring as heck strategy that pervades most of PvE, and moves general PvE in a more fun direction with real interrupts, timed cc saves, and other such fun stuff.

Shanks.2907:

I feel bad for when all these trinity supporters realize it’s nothing like what they want. lol

You’re a better man then I, cause I won’t.

Shanks.2907:

I feel bad for when all these trinity supporters realize it’s nothing like what they want. lol

I lol’d when I first read this topic. I can’t believe (1) people actually want a trinity (2) think this is a trinity mechanic! hahaha

Yeah, this isn’t going to change anything.

GW2 will still be pervaded by bosses that are just giant HP pools and one-shot attacks as their only skill bar. And HP and armor will still mean nothing to them, it will never be advantageous to take damage.

For example, my favorite build is dire gear, just because I find it fun and it fulfills what I imagine for my character. And if you don’t know, that is tied with Soldiers as the third tankiest gear available in the game.

But if I really need to survive a fight or am having trouble, I ignore my stats, grab a sigil of energy, and any dodge, block, and invulnerability I can find in my traits and skills. Those, unlike most of the games stats, do not scale to ever sinking depths of worthlessness when compared to boss-level damage.

Samhaim.8956:

Lazaar.9123:

I think you people are really overestimating this. Creatures can also use it against players, all it is, is a new CC. And thus would be ignored by stability and defiance.

Defiance will be getting a rework, so we don’t know how CCs will be handled in pve after HoT.

If you watch the stronghold preview you can see exactly how it works when he fights the lord. CC removes a percentage of the defiant bar. In the preview he uses “fear me” and it removes about 70% from the bar and then it starts regening back up quite quickly. So this means people will have to use multiple CC’s at the same time.

We dont know how it works after successfully landing a CC though. Whether there is a cooldown or not.

Could end up very good (make PvE more complex) or very horrible (make PvE even easier) depending on how it’s implemented.

As for how it could effect PvP, could be fun. (imagine making people run to you when there is a drop off a cliff between you, think reverse fear bomb)

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Taunt may mean enemies will no longer be brainless and you’ll have to use taunt to keep their much more lethal A.I in check. And lack of proper A.I is the number one reason PvE meta is the monotonous “zerk or go home”.

Uhu. So if you “have” to use taunt, what are you saying is that you want a change from the monotonous “zerk or go home” to a monotonous “one taunt and the rest zerk or go home”. Woooow, that’s SO much better!!!

I like that you can probabely taunt people off walls in wvw

Linken.6345:

I like that you can probabely taunt people off walls in wvw

Mind blown.

Then shudders at the thought of falling from a wall into an angry mob of invader after being taunted.

Will there ever be a situation where it’s better to Pull rather than to Taunt?

Reminds me of Daze vs. Stun (which one of those is better anyway?)

lol, good luck tanking with taunt. strip all those defiant stacks, distract a boss for 3 seconds, revert to old meta.

Scientia.8924:

Will there ever be a situation where it’s better to Pull rather than to Taunt?

Reminds me of Daze vs. Stun (which one of those is better anyway?)

stun is better than daze, but daze is more easily obtained.

similarly, pull is safer than taunt (and faster, since you pull the enemy instead of wait for it to run towards you), because it won’t necessarily make the enemy hate you with a passion and attack you, but taunt can have situational uses (using alongside a counter skill, defiant stance, or AED, for example).

Scientia.8924:

Will there ever be a situation where it’s better to Pull rather than to Taunt?

Reminds me of Daze vs. Stun (which one of those is better anyway?)

Stun > Daze since when stuned you cannot use skills NOR move.

Pull > Taunt since you can resist taunt with the new boon they’ll introduce and you can use a stunbreak more easily to remove taunt.

It won’t be any different from Pull skills.
Some of those are single targeted and very little are actually multi targeted.

That said, it’s only the Revenant so far who we have seen who has it.

I absolutely loathe losing control of my character, which is a huge reason why I don’t pvp, and this new CC will make me hate CC even more.

Lazaar.9123:

Jaxom.7310:

Lazaar.9123:

I think you people are really overestimating this. Creatures can also use it against players, all it is, is a new CC. And thus would be ignored by stability and defiance.

“you people” !?!

The people wanting tanks.

But Anet used that term Tanks.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/revenant-the-master-of-the-mists/

PopeUrban.2578:

Taunt is a CC, not an aggro mechanic. Re-read it.

The way its implemented is specifically to bust up the murderball formations that trivialize most of the pve content, and give melee specs additional and interesting cc that synergizes with rather than conflicts with their weapon sets.

For example: if you’re running a melee warrior, and you want some interrupt on your utility bar. Well, you could use fear me, but it’s a giant pain in the kitten , as you’re forced to use a mobility skill just to catch back up with the guy you just interrupted. On the flip side, if you’re running a ranged build, fear me has much better synergy as you’re trying to maintain distance. The addition of taunt (AKA Bizarro-fear), allows more build options and better skill synergy.

On top of that, mobs are going to use it on you, and I’d imagine that’s going to be pretty heavily abused by encounter and monster designs to break up the ‘all DPS IN A CORNER’ boring as heck strategy that pervades most of PvE, and moves general PvE in a more fun direction with real interrupts, timed cc saves, and other such fun stuff.

Aggro mechanics are a form of CC. So it’s not wrong to label Taunts a form of Aggro control.
Tanks in all trinity games do the job of CONTROLLING mobs.

Knighthonor.4061:

Lazaar.9123:

Jaxom.7310:

Lazaar.9123:

I think you people are really overestimating this. Creatures can also use it against players, all it is, is a new CC. And thus would be ignored by stability and defiance.

“you people” !?!

The people wanting tanks.

But Anet used that term Tanks.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/revenant-the-master-of-the-mists/

Tanky =/= Tank

VodCom.6924:

Scientia.8924:

Will there ever be a situation where it’s better to Pull rather than to Taunt?

Reminds me of Daze vs. Stun (which one of those is better anyway?)

Stun > Daze since when stuned you cannot use skills NOR move.

Pull > Taunt since you can resist taunt with the new boon they’ll introduce and you can use a stunbreak more easily to remove taunt.

Ah very interesting, thank you for clarifying that

VodCom.6924:

Pull > Taunt since you can resist taunt with the new boon they’ll introduce and you can use a stunbreak more easily to remove taunt.

But taunt will most likely not have terrain issues, so it could be more reliable. And no taunt is a status effect so the new boon will not effect it.

VodCom.6924:

Pull > Taunt since you can resist taunt with the new boon they’ll introduce and you can use a stunbreak more easily to remove taunt.

umm… taunt isn’t a condition. you can prevent it with stability, but that new boon won’t do crap about it.

Honestly, most bosses are already immune to anything above a stun. Immune! Immune! Immune!

I’m not expecting Taunt to work on anything except certain humanoid sized bosses, and even then assuming they don’t have immunity to CC.

Knighthonor.4061:

PopeUrban.2578:

Taunt is a CC, not an aggro mechanic. Re-read it.

The way its implemented is specifically to bust up the murderball formations that trivialize most of the pve content, and give melee specs additional and interesting cc that synergizes with rather than conflicts with their weapon sets.

For example: if you’re running a melee warrior, and you want some interrupt on your utility bar. Well, you could use fear me, but it’s a giant pain in the kitten , as you’re forced to use a mobility skill just to catch back up with the guy you just interrupted. On the flip side, if you’re running a ranged build, fear me has much better synergy as you’re trying to maintain distance. The addition of taunt (AKA Bizarro-fear), allows more build options and better skill synergy.

On top of that, mobs are going to use it on you, and I’d imagine that’s going to be pretty heavily abused by encounter and monster designs to break up the ‘all DPS IN A CORNER’ boring as heck strategy that pervades most of PvE, and moves general PvE in a more fun direction with real interrupts, timed cc saves, and other such fun stuff.

Aggro mechanics are a form of CC. So it’s not wrong to label Taunts a form of Aggro control.
Tanks in all trinity games do the job of CONTROLLING mobs.

“Taunt” in most (MMO)RPGs is a form of soft crowd control that increases the probability of a mob to attack the caster. When taunted, archers will stand where they are, not move and focus fire the caster.

Currently we have NO confirmation that the condition “taunt” will affect the aggro value of a mob. We only have the confirmation that it "will force the target(s) to run toward the caster. Nothing is preventing the mob to attack an other person once the condition wears out.

BrunoBRS.5178:

VodCom.6924:

Pull > Taunt since you can resist taunt with the new boon they’ll introduce and you can use a stunbreak more easily to remove taunt.

umm… taunt isn’t a condition. you can prevent it with stability, but that new boon won’t do crap about it.

I find it somewhat unlikely that fear will be prevented by the Resistance boon but Taunt won’t be. Game designers usually like symmetry .

Knighthonor.4061:

PopeUrban.2578:

Taunt is a CC, not an aggro mechanic. Re-read it.

The way its implemented is specifically to bust up the murderball formations that trivialize most of the pve content, and give melee specs additional and interesting cc that synergizes with rather than conflicts with their weapon sets.

For example: if you’re running a melee warrior, and you want some interrupt on your utility bar. Well, you could use fear me, but it’s a giant pain in the kitten , as you’re forced to use a mobility skill just to catch back up with the guy you just interrupted. On the flip side, if you’re running a ranged build, fear me has much better synergy as you’re trying to maintain distance. The addition of taunt (AKA Bizarro-fear), allows more build options and better skill synergy.

On top of that, mobs are going to use it on you, and I’d imagine that’s going to be pretty heavily abused by encounter and monster designs to break up the ‘all DPS IN A CORNER’ boring as heck strategy that pervades most of PvE, and moves general PvE in a more fun direction with real interrupts, timed cc saves, and other such fun stuff.

Aggro mechanics are a form of CC. So it’s not wrong to label Taunts a form of Aggro control.
Tanks in all trinity games do the job of CONTROLLING mobs.

That’s a purely semantic argument.

Aggro mechanics are not crowd control abilities. They’re laser-focused number crunches designed to create encounters in which risk is entirely removed from the majority of the party, mitigated completely, and ultimately creates a game in which a small portion of characters in the party are disproportionately responsible for that party’s success. Aggro is not designed to quickly save a party member from a near fatal attack. It’s designed to prevent that party member from being attacked ever. It’s a distributed hate system that all members in a given party play in to with positive or negative values.

The taunt boon is not an aggro mechanic. It is a short term crowd control condition with no lasting effects, no tracking of stacking hate mechanisms and no way for a single character to even mostly prevent the rest of theparty from ever being in real danger. Its impact on combat, as a whole, is the same as all other CCs rather than being the single defining element of the flow of PvE.

Saying Aggro is a CC is like saying running away, stealth, or killing enemies is a CC. Technically all of these things control the way enemies behave, but their primary function is not to disrupt the attack patterns of the enemy. Similarly, aggro,as a mechanic is not designed to disrupt the attack patterns of the enemy, but rather to control the targeting of the enemy.

The taunt effect is not an aggro mechanic. It does not create a situation in which players can control in a meaningful way the target prioritization of enemies. it does not allow players to take on roles dependant on such systems.

It is a short duration crowd control effect, with similar impact on combat as other short duration crowd control effects.

Does that clarify my statement?

Nike.2631:

BrunoBRS.5178:

VodCom.6924:

Pull > Taunt since you can resist taunt with the new boon they’ll introduce and you can use a stunbreak more easily to remove taunt.

umm… taunt isn’t a condition. you can prevent it with stability, but that new boon won’t do crap about it.

I find it somewhat unlikely that fear will be prevented by the Resistance boon but Taunt won’t be. Game designers usually like symmetry .

To bad that they outright state that it is a status effect (like stun, daze, etc.) and not a condition.

VodCom.6924:

Knighthonor.4061:

PopeUrban.2578:

Taunt is a CC, not an aggro mechanic. Re-read it.

The way its implemented is specifically to bust up the murderball formations that trivialize most of the pve content, and give melee specs additional and interesting cc that synergizes with rather than conflicts with their weapon sets.

For example: if you’re running a melee warrior, and you want some interrupt on your utility bar. Well, you could use fear me, but it’s a giant pain in the kitten , as you’re forced to use a mobility skill just to catch back up with the guy you just interrupted. On the flip side, if you’re running a ranged build, fear me has much better synergy as you’re trying to maintain distance. The addition of taunt (AKA Bizarro-fear), allows more build options and better skill synergy.

On top of that, mobs are going to use it on you, and I’d imagine that’s going to be pretty heavily abused by encounter and monster designs to break up the ‘all DPS IN A CORNER’ boring as heck strategy that pervades most of PvE, and moves general PvE in a more fun direction with real interrupts, timed cc saves, and other such fun stuff.

Aggro mechanics are a form of CC. So it’s not wrong to label Taunts a form of Aggro control.
Tanks in all trinity games do the job of CONTROLLING mobs.

“Taunt” in most (MMO)RPGs is a form of soft crowd control that increases the probability of a mob to attack the caster. When taunted, archers will stand where they are, not move and focus fire the caster.

Currently we have NO confirmation that the condition “taunt” will affect the aggro value of a mob. We only have the confirmation that it "will force the target(s) to run toward the caster. Nothing is preventing the mob to attack an other person once the condition wears out.

That’s still enemy control whether you like that or not. Aggro control in many MMOs function in unique ways. I used an example before of a skill similar to Taunt in Rift with its cleric. The Taunt pulls targets to the caster and changes their target.
In Warhammer Taunts functioned differently and had a offensive use there as well as a defensive use depending on build.

Muchacho.2390:

Nike.2631:

BrunoBRS.5178:

VodCom.6924:

Pull > Taunt since you can resist taunt with the new boon they’ll introduce and you can use a stunbreak more easily to remove taunt.

umm… taunt isn’t a condition. you can prevent it with stability, but that new boon won’t do crap about it.

I find it somewhat unlikely that fear will be prevented by the Resistance boon but Taunt won’t be. Game designers usually like symmetry .

To bad that they outright state that it is a status effect (like stun, daze, etc.) and not a condition.

Terror now causes Taunt to do damage,more damage if your foe is AAing, Necro Style:Retaliation!!!

Shanks.2907:

I feel bad for when all these trinity supporters realize it’s nothing like what they want. lol

I lol’d when I first read this topic. I can’t believe (1) people actually want a trinity (2) think this is a trinity mechanic! hahaha

A OK.8276:

Shanks.2907:

I feel bad for when all these trinity supporters realize it’s nothing like what they want. lol

I lol’d when I first read this topic. I can’t believe (1) people actually want a trinity (2) think this is a trinity mechanic! hahaha

Yeah if that makes you feel better…

The PvE is changing so that players now need to focus on controlling mobs now and not just ignoring them and stacking like before.

PvE has a new role now. Slow also makes attacks easier to defend. Again control is a major role in HoT PvE unlike in vanilla.

Knighthonor.4061:

A OK.8276:

Shanks.2907:

I feel bad for when all these trinity supporters realize it’s nothing like what they want. lol

I lol’d when I first read this topic. I can’t believe (1) people actually want a trinity (2) think this is a trinity mechanic! hahaha

Yeah if that makes you feel better…

The PvE is changing so that players now need to focus on controlling mobs now and not just ignoring them and stacking like before.

PvE has a new role now. Slow also makes attacks easier to defend. Again control is a major role in HoT PvE unlike in vanilla.

having to CC mobs (which is already a thing, contrary to popular belief) isn’t turning this into a trinity thing. what the people you quoted are saying is that taunt won’t turn GW2 into a trinity game, it’s just another CC option for players.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Knighthonor.4061:

A OK.8276:

Shanks.2907:

I feel bad for when all these trinity supporters realize it’s nothing like what they want. lol

I lol’d when I first read this topic. I can’t believe (1) people actually want a trinity (2) think this is a trinity mechanic! hahaha

Yeah if that makes you feel better…

The PvE is changing so that players now need to focus on controlling mobs now and not just ignoring them and stacking like before.

PvE has a new role now. Slow also makes attacks easier to defend. Again control is a major role in HoT PvE unlike in vanilla.

having to CC mobs (which is already a thing, contrary to popular belief) isn’t turning this into a trinity thing. what the people you quoted are saying is that taunt won’t turn GW2 into a trinity game, it’s just another CC option for players.

I disagree.

Taunts and Slow makes the Gw2 trinity more of a reality along with AI changes to make the non-damage roles just as important in PvE.

The trinity is so successful because it makes all roles equally useful. Vanilla GW1 lacked that as players realized.

Well now a control spec player can focus on locking down and reducing hits of enemy foes against teammates even more now.

That was exactly my role’s definition in every other trinity game as a Tank.

I prevented foes from getting to my allies and controlled who my foe would attack.

And just like in other games, Taunts likely won’t last long duration. In my time in WoW, a taunt only last 1.5 seconds I believe. After that the target could go back to attacking whoever is highest on their AI.

Seems to me taunt is something like a reverse fear. Seems folks need to drop old connotations they have with the term from other MMOs.

coglin.1867:

Seems to me taunt is something like a reverse fear. Seems folks need to drop old connotations they have with the term from other MMOs.

It’s not a reverse fear, or whatever that is.

Enemies can still use a skill. Also it changes the foe’s target.
Read below——-
Taunt will be used to both reposition foes and change your foes’ targets

Knighthonor.4061:

coglin.1867:

Seems to me taunt is something like a reverse fear. Seems folks need to drop old connotations they have with the term from other MMOs.

It’s not a reverse fear, or whatever that is.

Enemies can still use a skill. Also it changes the foe’s target.
Read below——-
Taunt will be used to both reposition foes and change your foes’ targets

fear: target runs away from caster, max length 3 seconds. can be avoided with stun breaks, stability and defiant stacks

taunt: target runs towards caster, and if target reaches caster, starts autoattacking (which is different from deliberately using any skill you want, or picking skills at random). max length 3 seconds. can be avoided with stun breaks, stability, and defiant stacks.

it’s fear, but instead of running away, you run towards the guy that inflicted it.

Jokubas.4265:

And it’s not just real life. Before MMOs, did you read any fiction where a warrior could literally force a target to attack him over his party with just a nonmagical word?

Usually, it takes the form of “Stand aside. He/She is mine!”, but yes. A character becoming so enraged that they focus on just one opponent isn’t anything new to MMOs, just the mechanics of how it’s presented.

Palador.2170:

Jokubas.4265:

And it’s not just real life. Before MMOs, did you read any fiction where a warrior could literally force a target to attack him over his party with just a nonmagical word?

Usually, it takes the form of “Stand aside. He/She is mine!”, but yes. A character becoming so enraged that they focus on just one opponent isn’t anything new to MMOs, just the mechanics of how it’s presented.

As a kid, it also worked, but a little different.
" hey your mother is a Bleep" usually did the job. Lol

Eggs.3142:

but lets face it. There was always the trinity ( DPS, Tank, Healer), but everyone was just DPS

If everyone is dps then there is no trinity.

Despite both sides of the argument, at the end of this day: I’m still looking forward to being able to taunt, no matter how it works.

I want to thank them too!

Please continue in this direction! I would love to see support/healing brought up to the levels it should be in order to further this direction you’re taking. We definitely need the option of trinity lite. It’s been sorely missed and it might actually break up the ongoing plague of Zerker everything. It might actually give us a strategy!

The only thing I think will make that so is if you move forward with enhancements to the support classes like a trait that also allows for grenades to heal instead of just bombs on the engineer or traits across all classes that help with condition removal of your team mates with equal work like one button skills instead of three.

That to me would be a huge help and it would be welcome. We might actually have a game with choices and with options and finally with strategies!

It’s GW2. Defiance will continue to work as is. You can’t taunt boss, but Boss will taunt you.