Guild Wars 2

papryk.6273:

just for a comparison let’s have a look at the 3.0 expansion in Rift
http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/patch-notes/442490-rift-3-0-nightmare-tide-7-00am-pdt-10-22-14-na-2-00pm-gmt-10-22-14-eu.html

and it was totally for FREE

and now look at the amount of content of HoT with the knowledge that it will be NOT for FREE

so…seriously…why do ppl even have to pay for this HoT when other companies can do bigger expansions for free?

maybe we should wait till release and talk about quality instead of quantity later on … when i read “level cap increase to 65” i just want to puke ^^ but we cant judge anything of HoT atm so a comparison is not useful till we know everything about it.

papryk.6273:

and it was totally for FREE

and now look at the amount of content of HoT with the knowledge that it will be NOT for FREE

Which amount of HoT content are talking about exactly? The general outline of future features that the devs gave us or the tiny corner of a map that we played in the barebones version of the demo? Because it’s kinda ridiculous at this point to be comparing a finished product to one that’s still very unknown and unfinished.

Not to mention, the continuation of the LS after the launch of HoT will most likely be quickly building onto whatever storyline that HoT finishes with and possibly adding in new areas to fit the story as well.

so…seriously…why do ppl even have to pay for this HoT when other companies can do bigger expansions for free?

Again, kinda hard to say Rift’s expansion was bigger when we haven’t even seen much of HoT yet.

As for why I would pay for it, it’s because I understand that something can’t come from nothing business wise. And while I’m sure Rift is an ok/good game, but for them to be able to put out a totally free expansion that would mean they’re probably sucking up to the whales hard to pay for it all. That much bending over backwards for a tiny portion of the community can only lead to bad things in the end.

GW2 already has a problem with all the outfits, BLC chests, and those tiny misc. items in the cash store. I’ll admit I don’t spend much money on this game, either between the lack of it and I don’t see much point in the outfits and whatnot, but I don’t mind spending $60 every once in awhile to help support a game I enjoy.

(That and I hope that a strong injection of cash from the community will make them back off the whale feeding for at least awhile.)

Erukk.1408:

And while I’m sure Rift is an ok/good game, but for them to be able to put out a totally free expansion that would mean they’re probably sucking up to the whales hard to pay for it all.

probably…not. but hey , I’m sure you played it and you know what you are talking about… -_-

Hammurabi.5942:

Lmao, you people complaining about the lack of content between the end of Season 2 and Heart of Thorns clearly have forgotten how poorly paced other MMORPGS like World of Warcraft are when it comes time for the pre-expansion period.

Icecrown Citadel was ‘current content’ for a year, excluding the ruby sanctum mini-raid. More recently, Siege of Orgrimmar lasted OVER A YEAR. Thats 13 months with NO content in a paid subscription game.

GW2 Living Story -> Heart of Thorns content gap is literally nothing compared to that.

Are you absolutely certain this expansion will be released early enough not to beat this number of 13 months? Last time I checked it was “when it’s ready”, not “much earlier than feb 2016”.

papryk.6273:

Erukk.1408:

And while I’m sure Rift is an ok/good game, but for them to be able to put out a totally free expansion that would mean they’re probably sucking up to the whales hard to pay for it all.

probably…not. but hey , I’m sure you played it and you know what you are talking about… -_-

What he said has nothing to do with ingame content. Rift is free to play, which means they get their income from somewhere, which are the players who put in money into their ingame store. Usually the main income in such a financial structure are the players who spend loads of money in the store, the so called “whales”.

I hope you realise that the Rift devs don’t simply update the game for free out of the goodness of their hearts. (Which would be unhealthy tbh) They too have to make a living.

So instead of assuming that the Guild Wars 2 HoT expansion must be free because other MMOs or other games do so is merely a choice ArenaNet makes. I think either decision is fine, as a paid expansion would simply mean that everyone chips in. That said.. the price must be fair to the amount of content, and I hope they will be able to do some good things with the money.

papryk.6273:

Erukk.1408:

And while I’m sure Rift is an ok/good game, but for them to be able to put out a totally free expansion that would mean they’re probably sucking up to the whales hard to pay for it all.

probably…not. but hey , I’m sure you played it and you know what you are talking about… -_-

Hence why I said “And while I’m sure…”.

I never played the game, and I only have an outsider perspective on the matter, but Rift had to get a lot of money from somewhere to pay for an entire free expansion. So unless they have a secret grove of money trees somewhere they aren’t sharing with anyone, all that cash probably came from milking the whales in cash store purchases since they’re FtP.

A bit off topic, but do they really sell raiding gear? That’s boggling my mind right now since they’re a gear treadmill MMO.

FrizzFreston.5290:

I hope you realise that the Rift devs don’t simply update the game for free out of the goodness of their hearts.

whoosh…there go the captain obvious…

so after the obvious you stated. yes Rift have a so called “Rift Store” and it’s pretty much like the gem shop from GW2…the stuff they are selling is pretty much the same, wardrobes, mounts, boosts, rng boxes, haistyles etc…
then so please tell me… if Trion can make enough money from the gem shop they have in Rift and are able to make huge amount of content…then why Anet isn’t able with their gem shop (beside the fact they have an income from the sales of boxes)?

It is important to remember that HoT is a “modern” MMO expansion. It looks like it will be comparable in size to a SWTOR expansion, basically one years worth of standard content updates plus a few extras. It will not however be a “traditional” expansion like a WoW sized expansion. I expect the price will reflect this, but it is important to keep your expectations in line.

In a SWTOR expansion you get:
- A new story line
- 2-3 new zones
- a new race
-lots of gem store updates
- a new feature
-a new PvP mode/map

This seems to be exactly what GW2 is offering us, just with a new class instead of a new race, which costs about $20.

This however is not going to be a WoW expansion which would offer:
- A new story line
- 8-10 new zones
- 12-14 new dungeons
- 2-3 raids
- 2 new races
- a new class
- a new PvP mode
- 2-3 new features

This is more of a “traditional” expansion and usually sells for $40-$50. As you can see, that is not what we are getting, so it is most likely we will be seeing the first type of expansion.

The confusion seems to be coming from the fact that we are getting the expansion after nearly 3 years, but SWTOR style expansions usually come every 6-9 months, while WoW style expansions come every 1.5-2 years.

papryk.6273:

then so please tell me… if Trion can make enough money from the gem shop they have in Rift and are able to make huge amount of content…then why Anet isn’t able with their gem shop (beside the fact they have an income from the sales of boxes)?

For one, GW probably costs more money to product than Rift does because of the graphics and different styles in their gameplay.

Secondly, Anet probably could make any future expansion free if they wanted too, but they would have to sell their souls to the cash store to fund it all to do so. Anet already has one foot in the cash store grave with their outfits, BLCs, new faces/hairstyles/colors, and boosters, but a quick search through Rift’s store shows they have ALOT more than that GW has on theirs.

They both share the basics: outfits, lottery ticket items, character customization, mini-pets, etc. But stuff like the different recipe, crafting items, mounts, and raid ready gear in a game with tiered raiding? I’m sure that’s a big cash flow on their part, especially the mounts and the gear. They even have the whole, “You can get this stuff through grinding as well” part, but that’s as much of a cop out answer to the cash store as the gold to gems conversion it.

They aren’t banking on everyone farming gold to buy want they want. They’re banking on everyone either being too lazy to farm or having enough money that spending something like $10+ on a fancy outfit means nothing to them.

Erukk.1408:

papryk.6273:

then so please tell me… if Trion can make enough money from the gem shop they have in Rift and are able to make huge amount of content…then why Anet isn’t able with their gem shop (beside the fact they have an income from the sales of boxes)?

For one, GW probably costs more money to product than Rift does because of the graphics and different styles in their gameplay.

Please try to prove that somehow…because this just sounds like a fanboyish statement

ps. there is no raid ready gear in Rift store. There is..let’s say “dungeon ready gear” which is obtainable in many ways in the game and the rift store way is just for the lazy ppl.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Hello Everyone.

If you are like me, you participated in the HoT stress test Beta today.
…and if you didn’t get to participate you are ravenously reading through forum posts trying to gather information regarding the Beta.

What I see is a lot of white knighting on the forums.

Players saying the game is “great” or that they “had fun.”
…and that is all good and well.

…but what we experienced today in the HoT “beta” is nowhere even near anything I would even call a beta or an alpha.

What we saw today was the next episode of the living story dressed up to appear like it will be expansion after some serious overhaul…. when there is currently nowhere near an expansion-sized chunk of content even close to finished for HoT.

I feel that continuing the living world…. putting up a pay wall and labeling it as an expansion is unacceptable….

Imagine Gw2 comes with a cup in which we receive our Living World updates, and that cup is now full.
In order to continue receiving Living world updates you are going to have to purchase this “expansion” which is just another cup to receive more Living World updates.

This is not an expansion…. this is more Living world.

For the Gw2 stress test betas, players were able to test “the game.” ….For the Gw2:HoT stress test beta we got a living story instance, that same living story instance made to look like an explorable map, half of a new profession, and a boss fight.

It looks like all of the work that has gone into the “expansion” so far amounts to one episode of living story….. and I really feel like this is a final “sinking ship” cash grab move by Anet in order to get players to dish out money just to continue receiving the living world.

What I “beta tested” was the next episode of the Living World, and I would be insulted if HoT ends up being content we were going to see in future episodes of Living world hiding behind a pay wall.

Thank you for reading.

A stress test is not a beta. You’re there for them to test how the server architecture handles players not to beta test the game. Sure they’ll want feedback on the bit of it you get to experience but that is not the main goal.

It was not a beta. It was a stress test.

papryk.6273:

just for a comparison let’s have a look at the 3.0 expansion in Rift
http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/patch-notes/442490-rift-3-0-nightmare-tide-7-00am-pdt-10-22-14-na-2-00pm-gmt-10-22-14-eu.html

and it was totally for FREE

and now look at the amount of content of HoT with the knowledge that it will be NOT for FREE

so…seriously…why do ppl even have to pay for this HoT when other companies can do bigger expansions for free?

well, people don´t have to pay for HoT at all. But many will not be caring what another game does. And some will sulk and claim how Rift is relevant here and still buy it. A few may even not buy it. So, how is Rift relevant here?

DaShi.1368:

Thank you TheBlackLeech. You expressed my concerns about the expansion after they said we’ve seen all of what they plan to release.

During the Living Story, we were assured by the white knights (yes, that is what they are because there’s been nothing but personal attacks on TheBlackLeech in this thread from them) that Anet was busy working on a big unreleased project. Now we see that that project is an expansion with the same amount of content we’ve gotten in the LS over a year. And it seems that they are taking longer to develop it. So I can understand how people are disappointed. What they will be getting is LS3 all at once (which is what some people want anyway, so not everyone will be unhappy), and not what most would consider a true expansion.

Like phys, I will probably make my final assessment based on how much they will charge us for this “expansion.”

hey hey hey, leave me out of the GW2 fanclub! Still I can attack him personally, I just dislike negative hyperbole and premature whining over things not really understood way more than I dislike GW2.

@ TheBlackLeech.9360
Seems you not played many real beta / alpha well at least the non payed ones. Just watch videos of older game’s beta and alpha back when they where not selling you incompetent games and testing was helping the game makers and they where happy to have you play it for free.

It was just one map and it was more of a lets see how many things can happen at once test. You already tested every thing else about GW2 in GW2 these test tend to be more about HoT maps and how they work.

papryk.6273:

Please try to prove that somehow…because this just sounds like a fanboyish statement

Complexity = time= money.

The higher quality graphics takes more time and money to produce, and building areas and encounters around a more mobile movement and combat system tacks onto the cost as well.

ps. there is no raid ready gear in Rift store. There is..let’s say “dungeon ready gear” which is obtainable in many ways in the game and the rift store way is just for the lazy ppl.

“Let’s say”. Such a dangerous phrase.

Does the “dungeon ready gear” give the player a nice enough dps to be possibly allowed into the first tiered raids, thus being able to skip any previously needed dungeon grinding? Even if doesn’t, how much grinding of lower lv content does the dungeon ready gear allow you to skip so you could move forward?

Either way, no matter the other grindy ways to get to that point, it’s still available in the cash store for quick and easy purchase.

Jski.6180:

@ TheBlackLeech.9360
Seems you not played many real beta / alpha well at least the non payed ones. Just watch videos of older game’s beta and alpha back when they where not selling you incompetent games and testing was helping the game makers and they where happy to have you play it for free.

Obviously you did not play the Guild Wars 2 beta stress tests (prior to the game’s release) or you would not be making this statement.

The HoT stress test beta had literally less than 20 minutes worth of content to explore.
It is not even comparable to the amount of Living Story we would have available since hot was released if Anet was still giving us episodes.

I know its nowhere near a finished project. (as I have stated over and over again in this thread) I know this was just a stress test… and I also know that compared to the other stress tests which I participated in for the game’s initial release…. this is a joke.

…and all of that is still unrelated to my concern that this “expansion” is just a bundle package of Living Story, some of which we would have probably already had in final and complete form by now.

We haven’t had a Living Story addition since the announcement of Hot.

We were getting content every two weeks in the form of living world.

How many episodes are we going to miss before the expansion comes out?

How much of this “expansion” is just going to be the Living Story which we would have already had by the time it is released.

Why are we going to have to pay for something that is being delivered in a method more undesirable that what we had before when it was free?

In case it flew straight past your head, this stress test had one substantial difference from the game as it’s like right now if you are to log in and play today. The Wyvern had no cap on the stacks of conditions it was pressured under. Now that, is what I call a stress test. Up to a hundred plus Bleed stacks on a single enemy, in order to see how it affects the performance of the servers and clients. It still doesn’t get close to how it will be stressed when a hundred player strong army are all contributing with condition damage to a single target, but it was a first step. Other than that, it serves as a free promotion. We take and share our screenshots, we talk about the Revenant, the scenery, the area, the event(s) we did, the Wyvern fight, the Mastery system in its infancy, gliding, mushroom bouncing, the activity available, even firing a sniper rifle that kills enemies in a single shot below.. and so on forth. It’s a win-win for them.

They get data on how conditions with no caps bears an effect on the servers after whatever magic they’ve done to the system, prior to releasing it into the wild harsh lands of our beta map. They get some data and feedback on the Revenant as-is, such as how many of us changed the default build, what traits did players mainly go for, what weapons and skills were used the most? Did we change our Legends often, did we camp in a Legend, did we seem to play the profession as they have envisioned it? Heat maps perhaps for where players congregated, and whatever other feedback we provide on the forums. We also promote the expansion by discussing it. Mostly positively at that, albeit with a bit of caution and worries in terms of how the Revenant may become a power creep profession. They’ve done an alright job with what was presented. But it needs work, obviously it needs more work, it is a tiny beta location for specific testing.

Short version: They stress tested how conditions would have a bearing on the server-/client performance when there are no cap to them. If you missed that, alright, it wasn’t explicitly mentioned anywhere, but players noticed it, and they have stated it was a first step towards lifting the cap and making conditions more viable in PvE(/WvW).

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Do you really feel that the small amount of content shown in the Demo/Stress Test is the width and breadth of the expansion?

Do you think they would show everything, everything in the Demo/Stress Test before even announcing in-depth all the expansion has to offer?

If so, I think you will be surprised.

This^
A-net was obviously testing very specific things in this stress test, and not giving anyone a look at the entire expansion.

rotten.9753:

Hammurabi.5942:

Lmao, you people complaining about the lack of content between the end of Season 2 and Heart of Thorns clearly have forgotten how poorly paced other MMORPGS like World of Warcraft are when it comes time for the pre-expansion period.

Icecrown Citadel was ‘current content’ for a year, excluding the ruby sanctum mini-raid. More recently, Siege of Orgrimmar lasted OVER A YEAR. Thats 13 months with NO content in a paid subscription game.

GW2 Living Story -> Heart of Thorns content gap is literally nothing compared to that.

Are you absolutely certain this expansion will be released early enough not to beat this number of 13 months? Last time I checked it was “when it’s ready”, not “much earlier than feb 2016”.

The difference is that GW2 does not have a subscription. World of Warcraft does. 13 months with no update in a subscription based game (the gaps between final raid tiers/expansions) is UNACCEPTABLE. In a game like Guild Wars 2, it’s not a big deal.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Jski.6180:

@ TheBlackLeech.9360
Seems you not played many real beta / alpha well at least the non payed ones. Just watch videos of older game’s beta and alpha back when they where not selling you incompetent games and testing was helping the game makers and they where happy to have you play it for free.

Obviously you did not play the Guild Wars 2 beta stress tests (prior to the game’s release) or you would not be making this statement.

The HoT stress test beta had literally less than 20 minutes worth of content to explore.
It is not even comparable to the amount of Living Story we would have available since hot was released if Anet was still giving us episodes.

I know its nowhere near a finished project. (as I have stated over and over again in this thread) I know this was just a stress test… and I also know that compared to the other stress tests which I participated in for the game’s initial release…. this is a joke.

…and all of that is still unrelated to my concern that this “expansion” is just a bundle package of Living Story, some of which we would have probably already had in final and complete form by now.

We haven’t had a Living Story addition since the announcement of Hot.

We were getting content every two weeks in the form of living world.

How many episodes are we going to miss before the expansion comes out?

How much of this “expansion” is just going to be the Living Story which we would have already had by the time it is released.

Why are we going to have to pay for something that is being delivered in a method more undesirable that what we had before when it was free?

Living World Seasons are supplementary to the content of larger releases.

Living World is not going to stop. There will be HoT story instances and then Living World Seasons to come after that.

I will say this again. Living World is not going to stop. Colin said this himself in multiple interviews.

Basically their new method of content release is going to go like this, based on how things have developed.

Guild Wars 2 Release > Living World Seasons > Heart of Thorns Release > Living World Seasons > Next Expansion Release > Living World Seasons > Etc.

Yes, the expansion seems like it is “lacking” in content, but what you experienced in that Stress Test was only a -tiny- piece of what will be available when HoT comes out in full release.

You’re concerned about things that have already been elaborated on which sadly get lost within the Internet because it is spread through multiple sources.

I will also reiterate what someone else said earlier in this thread; Do not think of this in terms of having the same amount of content that WoW would deliver in an expansion. Notice what happens with those. They load it up with big chunks of content with fairly large spans of time between large updates and it all gets blown through in maybe a month and then people have to wait, wait, wait, and wait.

GW2 is taking a more procedural approach. More consistent, frequent releases with an Expansion to introduce larger, newer features (Guild Halls, new PvP mode, New Class, etc) so as to keep things more consistent. They are even going to be adding a feature in HoT that is essentially enabling re-playability in older maps in the form of those Map Bonuses we’ll be getting with rewards and such (t6 materials being among them) for participation in events.

Sometimes I feel like people don’t pay attention to information before going off on a rant in a forum like this.

Jski.6180:

@ TheBlackLeech.9360

Sometimes I feel like people don’t pay attention to information before going off on a rant in a forum like this.

The opp has participated in the stresstest, so we can assume he knows what he’s talking about. Anyway, from an Expansion we expect lots of new playgrounds (maps), new chr’s with new skills and traits, lots of new goodies and quests. What we Don’t need is more Living Story. Because that’s already part of the core game and should be continuated even without Expansion. So yes, the Opp may have a point if nothing else was playtested.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Hello Everyone.

If you are like me, you participated in the HoT stress test Beta today.
…and if you didn’t get to participate you are ravenously reading through forum posts trying to gather information regarding the Beta.

What I see is a lot of white knighting on the forums.

Players saying the game is “great” or that they “had fun.”
…and that is all good and well.

…but what we experienced today in the HoT “beta” is nowhere even near anything I would even call a beta or an alpha.

What we saw today was the next episode of the living story dressed up to appear like it will be expansion after some serious overhaul…. when there is currently nowhere near an expansion-sized chunk of content even close to finished for HoT.

I feel that continuing the living world…. putting up a pay wall and labeling it as an expansion is unacceptable….

Imagine Gw2 comes with a cup in which we receive our Living World updates, and that cup is now full.
In order to continue receiving Living world updates you are going to have to purchase this “expansion” which is just another cup to receive more Living World updates.

This is not an expansion…. this is more Living world.

For the Gw2 stress test betas, players were able to test “the game.” ….For the Gw2:HoT stress test beta we got a living story instance, that same living story instance made to look like an explorable map, half of a new profession, and a boss fight.

It looks like all of the work that has gone into the “expansion” so far amounts to one episode of living story….. and I really feel like this is a final “sinking ship” cash grab move by Anet in order to get players to dish out money just to continue receiving the living world.

What I “beta tested” was the next episode of the Living World, and I would be insulted if HoT ends up being content we were going to see in future episodes of Living world hiding behind a pay wall.

Thank you for reading.

I hope we get some kind of story, even an addition to the living story would be fine, and I like the story, it’s part of the reason why I play a RPG or MMORPG…
Having no story whatsoever would make this a bit dim now would it. So be glad they continue the story. Even if you do not like the living story, it’s better then just some events and no lore, nothing at all…

You could see there was only a basic area available, and half the revenant proffesion…
THIS WAS A STRESS TEST They checked if the server could handle 100 stacks of conditions and from how many players… and how fast the melt would be on the boss.
It was no let’s get to see the whole game for free and enjoy the full expansion. It was a fragment, maybe a splinter even…

I cannot understand people expecting everything… even before the mechanics are being checked. Also why should they release more then just this area. In the actual OPEN beta for Gw2 we had the 1-15 zones…. some people said they entered AC story…

But that was 2 or 3 tests after the stress test, after the closed beta, and in the OPEN beta.

You think you’ve seen it all have you… well good for you.

And I was in the stress test. 2 times and it was a small area. yes, with a partially playable revenant. Why would you think this would be all.

If I was asked to pay 40 or 50 euro’s for te area we had played I’d QQ as well,but you didn’t even look at the minimap did you? The waypoints are there only for this tiny piece of map, And I really am sure there will be way more waypoints then the few what we’ve seen now (you had access to 2, I saw at least 8, noticed there were more but didn’t bother to count them. There is way more area, and this is only 1 map piece.)

And I feel he didn’t pay attention to the info presented. None at all.

Erukk.1408:

papryk.6273:

Please try to prove that somehow…because this just sounds like a fanboyish statement

Complexity = time= money.

The higher quality graphics takes more time and money to produce, and building areas and encounters around a more mobile movement and combat system tacks onto the cost as well.

ps. there is no raid ready gear in Rift store. There is..let’s say “dungeon ready gear” which is obtainable in many ways in the game and the rift store way is just for the lazy ppl.

“Let’s say”. Such a dangerous phrase.

Does the “dungeon ready gear” give the player a nice enough dps to be possibly allowed into the first tiered raids, thus being able to skip any previously needed dungeon grinding? Even if doesn’t, how much grinding of lower lv content does the dungeon ready gear allow you to skip so you could move forward?

Either way, no matter the other grindy ways to get to that point, it’s still available in the cash store for quick and easy purchase.

oh please tell me how is GW2 more complex than Rift…

oh wow…much dangerous phrase…such wow
I will rephrase it for you: There is dungeon rdy gear in the store. Happy now?
Dude you are just embarrasing yourself because you clearly have no idea about Rift.
the dungeon gear don’t allow you to raid…simple as that….because you don’t meet the “hit” requirement. You don’t skip anything because the same gear can be obtained via other way…like crafting, pvp boxes, buy it from AH, rng boxes that drop from mobs, or just as a drop from open world content.

KryTiKaL.3125:

Living World Seasons are supplementary to the content of larger releases.

Living World is not going to stop. There will be HoT story instances and then Living World Seasons to come after that.

I will say this again. Living World is not going to stop. Colin said this himself in multiple interviews.

Basically their new method of content release is going to go like this, based on how things have developed.

Guild Wars 2 Release > Living World Seasons > Heart of Thorns Release > Living World Seasons > Next Expansion Release > Living World Seasons > Etc.

Yes, the expansion seems like it is “lacking” in content, but what you experienced in that Stress Test was only a -tiny- piece of what will be available when HoT comes out in full release.

You’re concerned about things that have already been elaborated on which sadly get lost within the Internet because it is spread through multiple sources.

I will also reiterate what someone else said earlier in this thread; Do not think of this in terms of having the same amount of content that WoW would deliver in an expansion. Notice what happens with those. They load it up with big chunks of content with fairly large spans of time between large updates and it all gets blown through in maybe a month and then people have to wait, wait, wait, and wait.

GW2 is taking a more procedural approach. More consistent, frequent releases with an Expansion to introduce larger, newer features (Guild Halls, new PvP mode, New Class, etc) so as to keep things more consistent. They are even going to be adding a feature in HoT that is essentially enabling re-playability in older maps in the form of those Map Bonuses we’ll be getting with rewards and such (t6 materials being among them) for participation in events.

Sometimes I feel like people don’t pay attention to information before going off on a rant in a forum like this.

Yes, living story releases will not end because they will have to release stuff they won’t manage to put in the game at the time of the expansion launch like the new legendaries. Heart of Thorns will lack a content because it’s going to be incomplete, we might not even defeat the big guy and will have to wait for a living story episode which will just make him a zerged boss. Sadly.

rotten.9753:

KryTiKaL.3125:

Living World Seasons are supplementary to the content of larger releases.

Living World is not going to stop. There will be HoT story instances and then Living World Seasons to come after that.

I will say this again. Living World is not going to stop. Colin said this himself in multiple interviews.

Basically their new method of content release is going to go like this, based on how things have developed.

Guild Wars 2 Release > Living World Seasons > Heart of Thorns Release > Living World Seasons > Next Expansion Release > Living World Seasons > Etc.

Yes, the expansion seems like it is “lacking” in content, but what you experienced in that Stress Test was only a -tiny- piece of what will be available when HoT comes out in full release.

You’re concerned about things that have already been elaborated on which sadly get lost within the Internet because it is spread through multiple sources.

I will also reiterate what someone else said earlier in this thread; Do not think of this in terms of having the same amount of content that WoW would deliver in an expansion. Notice what happens with those. They load it up with big chunks of content with fairly large spans of time between large updates and it all gets blown through in maybe a month and then people have to wait, wait, wait, and wait.

GW2 is taking a more procedural approach. More consistent, frequent releases with an Expansion to introduce larger, newer features (Guild Halls, new PvP mode, New Class, etc) so as to keep things more consistent. They are even going to be adding a feature in HoT that is essentially enabling re-playability in older maps in the form of those Map Bonuses we’ll be getting with rewards and such (t6 materials being among them) for participation in events.

Sometimes I feel like people don’t pay attention to information before going off on a rant in a forum like this.

Yes, living story releases will not end because they will have to release stuff they won’t manage to put in the game at the time of the expansion launch like the new legendaries. Heart of Thorns will lack a content because it’s going to be incomplete, we might not even defeat the big guy and will have to wait for a living story episode which will just make him a zerged boss. Sadly.

source?
If it’s true then…lol… they want money for an incomplete content lacking expansion… -_-"

papryk.6273:

source?
If it’s true then…lol… they want money for an incomplete content lacking expansion… -_-"

Speculations based on the fact that only a handful of legendaries will be ready at launch. Anet can claim “when it’s ready” as long as they want but they are not an independent studio and when ncsoft tells them to release it, they will. They’re not blizzard.

rotten.9753:

papryk.6273:

source?
If it’s true then…lol… they want money for an incomplete content lacking expansion… -_-"

Speculations based on the fact that only a handful of legendaries will be ready at launch. Anet can claim “when it’s ready” as long as they want but they are not an independent studio and when ncsoft tells them to release it, they will. They’re not blizzard.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

New Legendaries were said to happen (in 2012) for 2013…… and now we are finally getting them bundled into the “expansion.” That might just barely make it into 2015.

This is what I’m talking about….. content, features, etc. that we were going to just get for free… are being saved up and are going to be put behind a pay wall.

No amount of white knighting is going to change anyone’s view on this.
This is factual.

I’m just hoping we see an equivalent amount or more of living story/content and features if we have to wait for the expansion without getting any new content in between.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

New Legendaries were said to happen (in 2012) for 2013…… and now we are finally getting them bundled into the “expansion.” That might just barely make it into 2015.

This is what I’m talking about….. content, features, etc. that we were going to just get for free… are being saved up and are going to be put behind a pay wall.

No amount of white knighting is going to change anyone’s view on this.
This is factual.

I’m just hoping we see an equivalent amount or more of living story/content and features if we have to wait for the expansion without getting any new content in between.

I’ll laugh out loud when they announce not all specialisations are going to be ready at the launch.

rotten.9753:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

New Legendaries were said to happen (in 2012) for 2013…… and now we are finally getting them bundled into the “expansion.” That might just barely make it into 2015.

This is what I’m talking about….. content, features, etc. that we were going to just get for free… are being saved up and are going to be put behind a pay wall.

No amount of white knighting is going to change anyone’s view on this.
This is factual.

I’m just hoping we see an equivalent amount or more of living story/content and features if we have to wait for the expansion without getting any new content in between.

I’ll laugh out loud when they announce not all specialisations are going to be ready at the launch.

The best part is, even though legendary weapons are 3 YEARS past their expected release… they STILL aren’t coming, only a “handful” will be in the expansion… which probably means we will see 1 new GS and that’s it.

I suspect it will be at LEAST another year before we see the rest of them, if we see them at all…

TheBlackLeech.9360:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

New Legendaries were said to happen (in 2012) for 2013…… and now we are finally getting them bundled into the “expansion.” That might just barely make it into 2015.

This is what I’m talking about….. content, features, etc. that we were going to just get for free… are being saved up and are going to be put behind a pay wall.

No amount of white knighting is going to change anyone’s view on this.
This is factual.

I’m just hoping we see an equivalent amount or more of living story/content and features if we have to wait for the expansion without getting any new content in between.

You suggest though, that they “saved” up until now to come out with this. To me it was more that they were unable to provide the right content in order to actually get the new legendaries or that precursor crafting (which is alot different than what they have shown us here actually) would be a thing. There have been several Dev comments on the matter since that blog. Including Lindsey saying she was working on it (amongst too many other things) end 2013, but it wasn’t done yet.

From Colin Januari 2014 on precursor hunting, which to me seems the whole map rewards that they talk about in the current blogpost was already being worked on back then. Although the context may be a bit lost.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Where-s-the-Scavenger-Hunt-post/first#post1190541

From the blog post in Januari 2014:

A few things on our list of projects for 2013 will be extended into 2014 as we continue to revise, test, and polish to ensure we put out features we think are the best for the game in the long run.

It is indeed a failure on their part that they said they would deliver this in 2013 and then said it wasn’t in their scope of things half a year later, and only until now they managed to put the time in to make it. But to say that this “feature” was ready since 2013 and just saved up in order to put it behind a paywall is just clearly false. It seems to me that it needed alot more work (and money) on all the different parts of the game before it was in the right place in the whole game. (while also working on bringing the game to China) Which is probably similar to the whole Guild Halls which were said to come some time in the future.

Although one could say that they never said anything about any expansion material to be completely free at any time forever, it might feel a bit like it was said theywould give you this, but they actually need to make money on this so it’ll be part of this gigantic feature pack of promised features, which you have to pay for so they can guarantee the game doesn’t fall apart after. (Or something along those lines, as you could also say they are just after our money I suppose)

If I’m honest, I don’t find it too unfair though that they put it behind a pay wall if that means we will get the content and features we want in the game. That actually seems pretty natural, as opposed to updated and adding to the game for free while grasping at people’s money through the gemstore.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The best part is, even though legendary weapons are 3 YEARS past their expected release… they STILL aren’t coming, only a “handful” will be in the expansion… which probably means we will see 1 new GS and that’s it.

I suspect it will be at LEAST another year before we see the rest of them, if we see them at all…

Interpreting “handful” to mean fewer than a full set, despite no evidence to suggest this is what was meant. Good to see you’re as optimistic as ever.

What you tested was a version of the game created as a stress test, not some VIP preview.

This wasn’t an exclusive reveal meant to impress you.

This was a chance for the devs to see how the game performs with a large number of players pushing the limits of a system that has tweaks like a condition cap removed so that you get a stable expansion.

Andred.1087:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The best part is, even though legendary weapons are 3 YEARS past their expected release… they STILL aren’t coming, only a “handful” will be in the expansion… which probably means we will see 1 new GS and that’s it.

I suspect it will be at LEAST another year before we see the rest of them, if we see them at all…

Interpreting “handful” to mean fewer than a full set, despite no evidence to suggest this is what was meant. Good to see you’re as optimistic as ever.

Realistic more like it… in the past 3 years there is nothing to suggest that we will get MORE than our lowest expectations. They are very deliberate about their wording in order to cover their bases. A full set would be 15 different legendary weapons. In no universe ever has a handful been interpreted as 15 oversized weapons.

I could see as high as 3, if we are really lucky. But given their particular track record with legendary weapons, and the fact that we haven’t even seen 1, I’ll maintain my stance until proven otherwise, thus far taking the lowest possible expectation route has left me with my expectations mostly met over the last 3 years.

T’was a stress test. Just checking how things would work out if they shoved a bunch of PC’s into an area. Simply put, it wasn’t the full beta.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Andred.1087:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The best part is, even though legendary weapons are 3 YEARS past their expected release… they STILL aren’t coming, only a “handful” will be in the expansion… which probably means we will see 1 new GS and that’s it.

I suspect it will be at LEAST another year before we see the rest of them, if we see them at all…

Interpreting “handful” to mean fewer than a full set, despite no evidence to suggest this is what was meant. Good to see you’re as optimistic as ever.

Realistic more like it… in the past 3 years there is nothing to suggest that we will get MORE than our lowest expectations. They are very deliberate about their wording in order to cover their bases. A full set would be 15 different legendary weapons. In no universe ever has a handful been interpreted as 15 oversized weapons.

I could see as high as 3, if we are really lucky. But given their particular track record with legendary weapons, and the fact that we haven’t even seen 1, I’ll maintain my stance until proven otherwise, thus far taking the lowest possible expectation route has left me with my expectations mostly met over the last 3 years.

Not realistic, pessimistic. Realism would see that it wouldn’t make any sense for the Devs to release less[or more] than a full set of legendaries. They aren’t that hard to design, and releasing any less will simply create antagonism and distress, such a move literally has no benefits for them. As for why they haven’t added more until now, it could be they wanted to wait until the best moment[Expansion is a pretty good moment to expand on things] and also until their precursor crafting system was ready. In this way, they’re adding more content to the package. This is all reasonable. What wouldn’t be reasonable is ANet doing half a job on this, which would only cripple their expansion. They don’t want this, and neither do we, so I feel a realistic view would be that ANet will give us a full set of Legendary weapons.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I would be insulted if HoT ends up being content we were going to see in future episodes of Living world hiding behind a pay wall.

They already told us that the Living Story will only continue for you when you buy the expansion.

Why would you think they were going to give us more content than there was at PAX and rezzed in the stress test they let you play all the content shown so far.

I don’t even….

/Facepalm….

“We don’t like LS we want a proper expansion -angry face”

Anet: Okay, we will give you an expansion -Works on expansion-

“We don’t want expansion because it’s just LS combined”

o.o

You don’t like the first format, so you demand a format used by pretty much every other MMO out there where you get little to no content for several months and then a bigger whack of content in one go. Then that’s exactly what they’re going to give you but then you complain you don’t like this either….. I don’t even…

On top of that you honestly thought the stress demo was all of the content you were going to get? I don’t even know how you could have possibly thought that was all of the content seeing how they already told us about a bunch of other things we’re going to get. Of course that wasn’t all of it… I’m just… /headdesk /giveuponhumanity

Fay.2735:

I don’t even….

/Facepalm….

“We don’t like LS we want a proper expansion -angry face”

Anet: Okay, we will give you an expansion -Works on expansion-

“We don’t want expansion because it’s just LS combined”

o.o

You don’t like the first format, so you demand a format used by pretty much every other MMO out there where you get little to no content for several months and then a bigger whack of content in one go. Then that’s exactly what they’re going to give you but then you complain you don’t like this either….. I don’t even…

On top of that you honestly thought the stress demo was all of the content you were going to get? I don’t even know how you could have possibly thought that was all of the content seeing how they already told us about a bunch of other things we’re going to get. Of course that wasn’t all of it… I’m just… /headdesk /giveuponhumanity

I agree with you on your second part, but the first part I disagree

A real expansion is NOT just a bunch of LS bundled together. A real expansion has 10-12 dungeons, 2-3 raids, new activities, new races, new classes, new skills, new features, new stories and new zones. The LS component SHOULD just be a small part of a full expansion. THAT is what people have been asking for.

So far there is not enough information to state for certain which way this “expansion” will go, but based on all their qualifiers, and “this will come after the launch of the expansion” talk I can understand peoples apprehensions.

Fay.2735:

I don’t even….

/Facepalm….

“We don’t like LS we want a proper expansion -angry face”

Anet: Okay, we will give you an expansion -Works on expansion-

“We don’t want expansion because it’s just LS combined”

o.o

You don’t like the first format, so you demand a format used by pretty much every other MMO out there where you get little to no content for several months and then a bigger whack of content in one go. Then that’s exactly what they’re going to give you but then you complain you don’t like this either….. I don’t even…

On top of that you honestly thought the stress demo was all of the content you were going to get? I don’t even know how you could have possibly thought that was all of the content seeing how they already told us about a bunch of other things we’re going to get. Of course that wasn’t all of it… I’m just… /headdesk /giveuponhumanity

+1
So much +1

ZudetGambeous.9573:

A real expansion is NOT just a bunch of LS bundled together. A real expansion has 10-12 dungeons, 2-3 raids, new activities, new races, new classes, new skills, new features, new stories and new zones. The LS component SHOULD just be a small part of a full expansion. THAT is what people have been asking for.

So far there is not enough information to state for certain which way this “expansion” will go, but based on all their qualifiers, and “this will come after the launch of the expansion” talk I can understand peoples apprehensions.

A “real expansion” for other games. GW2 is not those “other” games. They’ve basically proven that instanced content is not the route they necessarily desire to go. They’ve explained why a new race would add nothing at this time. They are following their own path. Many don’t like it, but it’s not their call to make.

The LS is very flexible and versatile. You can embed it into an LW season or into an expansion.

The definition of a “real expansion” is a very subjective thing. For me new classes or races are optional things.

There are many options for an expansion, but arenanet selected none. They call their dlc an expansion, but it is just a ls season + feature pack. Low quality low quantity of work is their credo since launch.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I agree with you on your second part, but the first part I disagree

A real expansion is NOT just a bunch of LS bundled together. A real expansion has 10-12 dungeons, 2-3 raids, new activities, new races, new classes, new skills, new features, new stories and new zones. The LS component SHOULD just be a small part of a full expansion. THAT is what people have been asking for.

So far there is not enough information to state for certain which way this “expansion” will go, but based on all their qualifiers, and “this will come after the launch of the expansion” talk I can understand peoples apprehensions.

Well since we don’t know what all we’re going to be getting yet, I think it’s a bit early to assume that all we’re getting is LS,… I hope.

Also, not to mention that I don’t know of any expansion that added 12 dungeons and 3 raids, that’s crazy! What game did you play that added that many?! I think 2-5 dungeons and 1-2 raids and a handful of zones is more the average amount of content that is released in expansions in the MMO’s I’ve played in.

I think 12 dungeons and 3 raids is not at all a realistic expectation. I’d love to know what MMO has done that and how much time there was between expansions for that to happen. That sounds like at least 3-5 years worth of design work.

Fay.2735:

I don’t even….

/Facepalm….

“We don’t like LS we want a proper expansion -angry face”

Anet: Okay, we will give you an expansion -Works on expansion-

“We don’t want expansion because it’s just LS combined”

o.o

Except that’s a huge fallacy.

An expansion should not just be an equivalent of combined living story episodes. We get those for free… and the expansion has a price tag associated with it.

Why would anyone be anything but the opposite of happy about getting the same thing they were already getting for free with a pricetag slapped on it?

OH YES! PLEASE CHARGE ME FOR THE THINGS I’M ALREADY GETTING FOR FREE!
WHERE CAN I SIGN UP!

If I give you a free apple every day for 100 days, you will have 100 apples on day one hundred at no cost to you.

If I give you nothing until day one hundred, then give you 100 apples and then charge you for them. You will have your 100 apples just the same…. but you had to pay for them.

which is better?

If Anet would have delivered a paid expansion in addition to the continuation of the Living Story, it would have been praised by all.

Nobody wants to pay for something they are already getting for free unless they are a fool.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Fay.2735:

I don’t even….

/Facepalm….

“We don’t like LS we want a proper expansion -angry face”

Anet: Okay, we will give you an expansion -Works on expansion-

“We don’t want expansion because it’s just LS combined”

o.o

Except that’s a huge fallacy.

An expansion should not just be an equivalent of combined living story episodes. We get those for free… and the expansion has a price tag associated with it.

Why would anyone be anything but the opposite of happy about getting the same thing they were already getting for free with a pricetag slapped on it?

OH YES! PLEASE CHARGE ME FOR THE THINGS I’M ALREADY GETTING FOR FREE!
WHERE CAN I SIGN UP!

If I give you a free 1 cent every day for 100 days, you will have a dollar on day one hundred.

If I give you nothing until day one hundred, then give you a whole dollar and then charge you for it.

which is better?

Except that people are missing the point where you have been getting almost an expansion worth of content since launch for FREE where as normally in every other MMO you would have had to pay for it. Arenanet is still a business, they do have to make money somehow to keep working on GW2. Gemstore items alone are not going to give them enough money in the long run to sustain their business, you have to be realistic here.

GW2’s payment system is already one of the most generous I’ve ever seen in the MMO genre… Some people are just never happy unless they get everything for free. The talented people who work on GW2 spend thousands of hours making it, should they not be paid to provide you with this entertainment and artistic talent?

It baffles me when people complain about having to pay for a GW2 expansion after I spend almost 6k hours playing this game which is a major bargain compared to most other games that you pay the same amount for and finish in a couple of days at most….

Like Evolve is a prime example of an expensive game that has very little content nor much replay value or what about The Sims where you have to pay a chunk of money for tiny expansions and have to rely on mods to get worthwhile play time out of it.

People who play GW2 and complain about having to pay for an expansion have some serious tunnel vision going on and seem to be completely oblivious to the rest of the gaming industry. Criticism of the game is all well and good, to each their own but I don’t think it’s fair to complain about having to pay for this expansion.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If I give you a free apple every day for 100 days, you will have 100 apples on day one hundred at no cost to you.

If I give you nothing until day one hundred, then give you 100 apples and then charge you for them. You will have your 100 apples just the same…. but you had to pay for them.

Let me fix your non-fitting analogy. Again.

If I give you a free apple every day for 100 days, you will have 100 apples at the end at no cost to you.

If I give you nothing after, you complain that you are not getting any more free apples and therefore I’m unfair as I promised you more apples.

Arenanet already gave many additions to the game for free, you already have these. Because they change the way additions are coming to you instead for free you need to pay for the whole lot you are getting in the future. (It’s basically buy to play x2)

That said, the price Vs content or quality comparison is a very logical thing to do if you want to be sure you are spending money on the right thing. However you are grasping at straws here, which makes this whole opinionated piece based on very little.

You can’t build an argument like a house of cards and expect it will hold when the wind blows.

OK.. you are comparing HoT with LS s1, or even S2? Makes me laugh.

HoT:
? New Content
– 3 New biomes :
– Canopy
– Ground
– Roots
(I am betting in 6 new maps, but we don’t have info. We only have confirmed it will be a pack of maps, and not only one).
– New legendarys, and rework on old way to acquire legendarys
– New races to interact with
– New civilizations
– A new set of monsters/mobs and creatures.
? A new Hub City
– It has been confirmed into the masterys, that the golden city is indeedly a new Hub.
? 9 complete sets of profession updates, what means:
– New profession mechanic
– New skills/Healing/Elite.
– Acess to a new weapon.
? A complete new profession
– New role to play
– A handfull list of new weapon skills and mechanics
? New game mechanics
– New conditions an boons (Taunt, Slow,..)
– Reworked defiance system
– New reward mechanic to all maps in tyria
– New way to acquire precursors
– New challenging fights (Wyvern is the example on live, but we have the whole thing about face the champions of the new races, and the “Challenging content” that is still set to be talked about)
- Masteryes, that allows a whole new set of game mechanics, such as:
? Gliding
– Acess to new areas
– Allow you to hangglide instead of fall to death
– Quick travel trough high/low areas
? Mushrooms
– High Jumping o acess good strategic and chock points
?PC character voice over (YES! our character talks again, and not on stupid cutscenes only, or rough pop baloon messages).
? New game mode (Stronghold)
– New map mechanics
– New environnment studd to play, and tatics to try
– Leaderboards
? New WxW Borderland
– Okay. “Only” a entire set of complete new mechanics for each keep, for each tower, and for general sentrys, and camps.
- New siege weapon
- New map bonus
? New Guild benefit
– Guild halls
? New Storyline
- No, I don’t believe its gonna be some freaking filler episodes. We are going to deal with Mordremoth itself.

Okay, thats is ONLY what we got confirmed so far, since we still have the factor “Surprises” that every exansion have, and we still are like 3-4 months away from the release of the expansion.

Please, don’t even try to compare Living world seasons, with expansion pack. I loved both living world seasons, But I see then as filler content for while we wait bigger patchs. Also, this is the first Expansion and they stated that 2 things delayed a lot then: The launch at china, and the fact that they took a lot of research into the CDI’s topics to rewor the game as a whole.

papryk.6273:

I will rephrase it for you: There is dungeon rdy gear in the store. Happy now?

Since the original question was how Rift was able to do a free expansion and not GW, yes.

Even if it’s not raiding gear, the dungeon gear just being in their cash store alone proves the point I was trying to make. They helped pay for that expansion through catering to their patrons/subscribers, the lazy people that bought that gear off their cash store instead of getting it the old fashion way, and the whales that have to get all the new mounts, outfits, recipes, and crafting materials.

For GW2 to offer free expansions as well, they would have to dive even deeper into their cash store like Rift did when they went FtP. Offering perks to some sort of new subscription programs, even more weapon and armor skins, outfits galore, all sorts of unique glider skins, and possibly different instant leveling scrolls for easy and quick progression since they aren’t based around gear score.

They might offer different ways to obtain the stuff on their cash stores, but games who’s income in centered around micro transactions, like Rift and GW2, are banking on people either too lazy or not having the time that would rather swipe their credit card or appealing to whale’s “Oh Shinies!” mentality.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Because they change the way additions are coming to you instead for free you need to pay for the whole lot you are getting in the future. (It’s basically buy to play x2)

…and we are supposed to be happy about this change to the content delivery method?

…give Anet praise?

How can you almost reiterate the exact point I’m trying to make, state it as fact, but when I express my opinions/concerns about said point, you pretend like what I am saying is invalid and doesn’t make sense?