Guild Wars 2

Anet included GW2 in HoT for new players to entice them to visit Tyria which makes sense. New players likely would be turned off by buying 2 full games to try out HoT. They don’t want players separated by a Paywall in GW2 which would divide the Player Base and as LS3 (or LS4 really as HoT is LS3) will certainly be located in the HoT map.

Where Anet made a serious error imo and the opinion of many others is they decided to gouge the current players just that little bit extra by not including a character slot or two as they did in every expansion in GW save EOTN with the base HoT expansion. I mean seriously, there is zero incentive for a current player to pre purchase the base package.

What this decision has led to is a bit of a paradox considering their intentions were unity of the Player Base, as “veteran” player I won’t be buying the expansion as it is offered currently and as I see no signs that Anet will change their minds (which they are entitled not to, it is their game) I will be locked out behind a Paywall after buying a collector’s edition of GW2 and a new player won’t be. This certainly isn’t Anet’s intention and I’m sure they would love for everyone to join in the fun, but I’m a customer and they’re a business not my friends, and I’m unhappy paying the same and getting less than a new player.

I still plan on playing GW2 and fighting all your revenants with my old school non mastery toons and enjoying the game I paid $150 for that I can play forever while Anet gives that game away for free to the new guys. If the game goes on sale I’ll snatch it up but until then as a consumer I’ll play what I’ve already paid for until they turn the servers off.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Anet included GW2 in HoT for new players to entice them to visit Tyria which makes sense. New players likely would be turned off by buying 2 full games to try out HoT. They don’t want players separated by a Paywall in GW2 which would divide the Player Base and as LS3 (or LS4 really as HoT is LS3) will certainly be located in the HoT map.

Where Anet made a serious error imo and the opinion of many others is they decided to gouge the current players just that little bit extra by not including a character slot or two as they did in every expansion in GW save EOTN with the base HoT expansion. I mean seriously, there is zero incentive for a current player to pre purchase the base package.

What this decision has led to is a bit of a paradox considering their intentions were unity of the Player Base, as “veteran” player I won’t be buying the expansion as it is offered currently and as I see no signs that Anet will change their minds (which they are entitled not to, it is their game) I will be locked out behind a Paywall after buying a collector’s edition of GW2 and a new player won’t be. This certainly isn’t Anet’s intention and I’m sure they would love for everyone to join in the fun, but I’m a customer and they’re a business not my friends, and I’m unhappy paying the same and getting less than a new player.

I still plan on playing GW2 and fighting all your revenants with my old school non mastery toons and enjoying the game I paid $150 for that I can play forever while Anet gives that game away for free to the new guys. If the game goes on sale I’ll snatch it up but until then as a consumer I’ll play what I’ve already paid for until they turn the servers off.

yeah this occured to me as well.
and there will be a decent amount of people who dont switch over for some time. In the original phantasy star online, which ended up working similarly(though for better reasons), i remember they had a decent amount of vanilla players till the game closed.

i think what it all boils down to, is they overestimated how much current players would be comfortable paying for the expansion as they have currently promoted it.

phys.7689:

yeah this occured to me as well.
and there will be a decent amount of people who dont switch over for some time. In the original phantasy star online, which ended up working similarly(though for better reasons), i remember they had a decent amount of vanilla players till the game closed.

i think what it all boils down to, is they overestimated how much current players would be comfortable paying for the expansion as they have currently promoted it.

It’s not the end of the world. It makes me more sad than angry that they felt this was a good thing but I wholeheartedly disagree with devaluing my money so I’m passing on it completely as will my wife. All of my gaming friends I came to GW with quit long ago but I love my guild so missing missions if they’re in HoT areas will be a bummer but oh well, a man has to do what he feels is right.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Anet included GW2 in HoT for new players to entice them to visit Tyria which makes sense. New players likely would be turned off by buying 2 full games to try out HoT. They don’t want players separated by a Paywall in GW2 which would divide the Player Base and as LS3 (or LS4 really as HoT is LS3) will certainly be located in the HoT map.

Where Anet made a serious error imo and the opinion of many others is they decided to gouge the current players just that little bit extra by not including a character slot or two as they did in every expansion in GW save EOTN with the base HoT expansion. I mean seriously, there is zero incentive for a current player to pre purchase the base package.

What this decision has led to is a bit of a paradox considering their intentions were unity of the Player Base, as “veteran” player I won’t be buying the expansion as it is offered currently and as I see no signs that Anet will change their minds (which they are entitled not to, it is their game) I will be locked out behind a Paywall after buying a collector’s edition of GW2 and a new player won’t be. This certainly isn’t Anet’s intention and I’m sure they would love for everyone to join in the fun, but I’m a customer and they’re a business not my friends, and I’m unhappy paying the same and getting less than a new player.

I still plan on playing GW2 and fighting all your revenants with my old school non mastery toons and enjoying the game I paid $150 for that I can play forever while Anet gives that game away for free to the new guys. If the game goes on sale I’ll snatch it up but until then as a consumer I’ll play what I’ve already paid for until they turn the servers off.

The real problem with this pricing at least for the existing player is that at the Basic level it appears that you need to spend $10 more for a character slot (because having access to the new profession is important to a lot of people) or upgrade to $75++ to get one with a slot (and some bonuses).
But this seems extremely money grabby when some but not a lot of new playable content has been made known especially at kitten base price point.

Furthermore, the controversy regarding the FAQ change, and the seemingly terminte account and refund rather than paying the difference for the expansion to the newer players who bought into GW2 because it was stated that the base game was required for the expansion only to have this change out from under them. Now, you can terminate your old account (losing gem purchases, any progress made, friends list, and so on in the process) or you can pay full price for the expansion and add it to your relatively new account and maintain your old progress.

Tired and not sure what I’m writing at this point, but this seems like a bit of a downer of a deal for anyone but the prospective player, and then again, seeing the uproar this is causing I might shy away if I were a potential buyer.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Where Anet made a serious error imo and the opinion of many others is they decided to gouge the current players just that little bit extra by not including a character slot or two as they did in every expansion in GW save EOTN with the base HoT expansion. I mean seriously, there is zero incentive for a current player to pre purchase the base package.

Thank you, that’s what I think. The price would be okay if we get at least one additional character slot in the normal edition.

Mooncaller.9634:

The real problem with this pricing at least for the existing player is that at the Basic level it appears that you need to spend $10 more for a character slot (because having access to the new profession is important to a lot of people) or upgrade to $75++ to get one with a slot (and some bonuses).
But this seems extremely money grabby when some but not a lot of new playable content has been made known especially at kitten base price point.

Furthermore, the controversy regarding the FAQ change, and the seemingly terminte account and refund rather than paying the difference for the expansion to the newer players who bought into GW2 because it was stated that the base game was required for the expansion only to have this change out from under them. Now, you can terminate your old account (losing gem purchases, any progress made, friends list, and so on in the process) or you can pay full price for the expansion and add it to your relatively new account and maintain your old progress.

Tired and not sure what I’m writing at this point, but this seems like a bit of a downer of a deal for anyone but the prospective player, and then again, seeing the uproar this is causing I might shy away if I were a potential buyer.

Well put and add the ascended buff that breaks the last pillar of the manifesto to that but my objections were primarily monetary. I demand equal value for my money (not better but equal).

A new player gets
5 free slots
A bank tab
A material tab

The entire game I can live with as I want new players in Tyria but come on, I’m not paying what they are for less than half what they get.

Another unwanted effect of the Pricewall is that it doesn’t attract new players, because of the anger and sadness of us, “veterans”. Potential new players learn about it; we talk about it with IRl friends and they know how we feel. Thus ANet as a whole get a terrible reputation all of sudden, and potential new players choose to ignore the game.

I have two friends who bought the core game before its launch, but didn’t liked the gameplay and left very quickly. We often have heated argument over GW2 compared to other MMO (they really like TESo, for instance, while I find it clunky and not dynamic at all, but that’s another story) and now, I feel as if I haven’t any argument to oppose them when we talk about GW2. That’s really disheartening.

Valmir.4590:

Another unwanted effect of the Pricewall is that it doesn’t attract new players, because of the anger and sadness of us, “veterans”. Potential new players learn about it; we talk about it with IRl friends and they know how we feel. Thus ANet as a whole get a terrible reputation all of sudden, and potential new players choose to ignore the game.

I have two friends who bought the core game before its launch, but didn’t liked the gameplay and left very quickly. We often have heated argument over GW2 compared to other MMO (they really like TESo, for instance, while I find it clunky and not dynamic at all, but that’s another story) and now, I feel as if I haven’t any argument to oppose them when we talk about GW2. That’s really disheartening.

Same with my friends. I’m the last man standing and they’re always trying to lure me to other MMOs even though they own GW2 they quit 2 months after launch because they felt lied to.

Aidenwolf.5964:

I still plan on playing GW2 and fighting all your revenants with my old school non mastery toons and enjoying the game I paid $150 for that I can play forever while Anet gives that game away for free to the new guys. If the game goes on sale I’ll snatch it up but until then as a consumer I’ll play what I’ve already paid for until they turn the servers off.

same me, same me and my friend i brought her to this game 145 days ago

ProtoGunner.4953:

Thank you, that’s what I think. The price would be okay if we get at least one additional character slot in the normal edition.

You’d still be getting ripped of. The new players are getting 5 character slots and lots of bank space. And you get one character slot for the exact same price.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Thank you, that’s what I think. The price would be okay if we get at least one additional character slot in the normal edition.

You’d still be getting ripped of. The new players are getting 5 character slots and lots of bank space. And you get one character slot for the exact same price.

It is a lot they’re getting I actually had to pull up what came with GW2 as its been years since I looked. I wanted a character slot but now that I see the bank tab, 5 character slots, and inventory tab which are all gem store items now, I got angrier.

Then there’s the potential rift between new players and old. It’s not unlikely that some bitter vets will continue to air their grievances in mapchat, and bag new players as if they’re to blame. They’re effectively shutting nonpurchasers out of all new content, since it will all require HoT. Forget about buying S3 on the gemstore, that won’t happen, since it’ll require HoT. Many will feel resentful.

For a game that’s marketed as casual friendly and inclusive, that can be disastrous.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Then there’s the potential rift between new players and old. It’s not unlikely that some bitter vets will continue to air their grievances in mapchat, and bag new players as if they’re to blame. They’re effectively shutting nonpurchasers out of all new content, since it will all require HoT. Forget about buying S3 on the gemstore, that won’t happen, since it’ll require HoT. Many will feel resentful.

For a game that’s marketed as casual friendly and inclusive, that can be disastrous.

Exactly what will happen I’m my opinion.

Aidenwolf.5964:

I mean seriously, there is zero incentive for a current player to pre purchase the base package.

Of all the words posted on this forum since this mess hit the fan these are amongst the truest. Why would anyone pre-purchase this expansion if they’re buying the base game? Sure people intending on buying the deluxe or ultimate package have reasons to do so but the base version of HoT is completely unattractive to existing players.

Well, apart from access to beta weekends* but, to be honest, with so many KickStarters and other companies trying to sell “early access” to their games I can’t be bothered spending my time testing code for them any more. I’m sure not going to pay them for the privilege. I can see how others might see that as enough of an incentive, though.

*I’m guessing there will be no other way to get access to the beta weekends from now on.

Pifil.5193:

Aidenwolf.5964:

I mean seriously, there is zero incentive for a current player to pre purchase the base package.

Of all the words posted on this forum since this mess hit the fan these are amongst the truest. Why would anyone pre-purchase this expansion if they’re buying the base game? Sure people intending on buying the deluxe or ultimate package have reasons to do so but the base version of HoT is completely unattractive to existing players.

Well, apart from access to beta weekends* but, to be honest, with so many KickStarters and other companies trying to sell “early access” to their games I can’t be bothered spending my time testing code for them any more. I’m sure not going to pay them for the privilege. I can see how others might see that as enough of an incentive, though.

*I’m guessing there will be no other way to get access to the beta weekends from now on.

The beta access is a perk I suppose but only if you’re interested in testing the game.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Where Anet made a serious error imo and the opinion of many others is they decided to gouge the current players just that little bit extra by not including a character slot or two as they did in every expansion in GW save EOTN with the base HoT expansion. I mean seriously, there is zero incentive for a current player to pre purchase the base package.

Thank you, that’s what I think. The price would be okay if we get at least one additional character slot in the normal edition.

There is no ascended buff. That was false information disseminated by over-eager websites. Here’s some accurate information on this and a significant QoL improvement for ascendeds:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ascended-Gear-Anet-please-fix-this/first#post5173842

Palindrome.8904:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Where Anet made a serious error imo and the opinion of many others is they decided to gouge the current players just that little bit extra by not including a character slot or two as they did in every expansion in GW save EOTN with the base HoT expansion. I mean seriously, there is zero incentive for a current player to pre purchase the base package.

Thank you, that’s what I think. The price would be okay if we get at least one additional character slot in the normal edition.

There is no ascended buff. That was false information disseminated by over-eager websites. Here’s some accurate information on this and a significant QoL improvement for ascendeds:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ascended-Gear-Anet-please-fix-this/first#post5173842

That’s a fantastic QOL I’ll be looking forward to using it in vanilla

Calling an expansion a paywall is a little unfair in my opinion. By definition then all expansions are therefore paywalls if you need to buy it to access it’s content.

Paywall is usually reserved for core game functionality being restricted from F2P players that VIP tier (read subscription in everything but name only) players get.

Behellagh.1468:

Calling an expansion a paywall is a little unfair in my opinion. By definition then all expansions are therefore paywalls if you need to buy it to access it’s content.

Paywall is usually reserved for core game functionality being restricted from F2P players that VIP tier (read subscription in everything but name only) players get.

Content like maps and living story which will undoubtedly be on those maps that can can only be accessed by purchasing the expansion thereby locking out those who don’t buy it is absolutely a Paywall.

Behellagh.1468:

Calling an expansion a paywall is a little unfair in my opinion. By definition then all expansions are therefore paywalls if you need to buy it to access it’s content.

Paywall is usually reserved for core game functionality being restricted from F2P players that VIP tier (read subscription in everything but name only) players get.

paywall is not really a negative term, its just a wall that exists between players who have paid and have not.

you can call it a splitting of the playerbase if you will.

the poster’s main point is that its ironic, that they are trying to have one box, in order to avoid players split up into core/hot as much as possible, and yet it seems like the current pricing will likely create a decent section of people who will not adopt the new expansion. thus creating a larger split than between adopters and non adopters than they would have had with a different plan.

of course, perhaps this is all talk and not that many people will not purchase, it remains to be seen.

phys.7689:

Behellagh.1468:

Calling an expansion a paywall is a little unfair in my opinion. By definition then all expansions are therefore paywalls if you need to buy it to access it’s content.

Paywall is usually reserved for core game functionality being restricted from F2P players that VIP tier (read subscription in everything but name only) players get.

paywall is not really a negative term, its just a wall that exists between players who have paid and have not.

you can call it a splitting of the playerbase if you will.

the poster’s main point is that its ironic, that they are trying to have one box, in order to avoid players split up into core/hot as much as possible, and yet it seems like the current pricing will likely create a decent section of people who will not adopt the new expansion. thus creating a larger split than between adopters and non adopters than they would have had with a different plan.

of course, perhaps this is all talk and not that many people will not purchase, it remains to be seen.

Well said. As for the sales numbers who can say it isn’t a concern of mine I have no animosity towards Anet or the game I simply won’t buy the expansion unless I’m given exactly what other get for the same money.

To clarify what I mean by equal value of my $50 (I’ll never but the top tier from Anet again), I want exactly what a new play gets, the core game add-on which I’ll use as a storage account and HoT upgrading my current account.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Behellagh.1468:

Calling an expansion a paywall is a little unfair in my opinion. By definition then all expansions are therefore paywalls if you need to buy it to access it’s content.

Paywall is usually reserved for core game functionality being restricted from F2P players that VIP tier (read subscription in everything but name only) players get.

Content like maps and living story which will undoubtedly be on those maps that can can only be accessed by purchasing the expansion thereby locking out those who don’t buy it is absolutely a Paywall.

How about having a game called “Guild Wars” in which “Guild Halls” are only accessible through the new paid map? Sounds like a paywall to me…

Otokomae.9356:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Behellagh.1468:

Calling an expansion a paywall is a little unfair in my opinion. By definition then all expansions are therefore paywalls if you need to buy it to access it’s content.

Paywall is usually reserved for core game functionality being restricted from F2P players that VIP tier (read subscription in everything but name only) players get.

Content like maps and living story which will undoubtedly be on those maps that can can only be accessed by purchasing the expansion thereby locking out those who don’t buy it is absolutely a Paywall.

How about having a game called “Guild Wars” in which “Guild Halls” are only accessible through the new paid map? Sounds like a paywall to me…

A feature that should’ve been live at launch that I won’t be able to access sadly.

Just think of this… if the majority of people that buy HoT are the noobs… and they never even make it to 80 to access it….

So much face palm.

TurtleofPower.5641:

Just think of this… if the majority of people that buy HoT are the noobs… and they never even make it to 80 to access it….

So much face palm.

Based on the launch of the game, about half of new players quit GW2 within 2 months of playing it.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Where Anet made a serious error imo and the opinion of many others is they decided to gouge the current players just that little bit extra by not including a character slot or two as they did in every expansion in GW save EOTN with the base HoT expansion. I mean seriously, there is zero incentive for a current player to pre purchase the base package.

Thank you, that’s what I think. The price would be okay if we get at least one additional character slot in the normal edition.

I think this wouldn’t have started had a character slot been included, but people wouldn’t be happy about the pricing of the lack of a non new player package.

What Anet have done is devalue current customers in my opinion. It is only my opinion but I’m not the only one who feels that way.

Besides the pay wall the reaction from the current players/vets that don’t like the pre-purchase has already caused some new/potential players to not get the game at all.

Zero Day.2594:

Besides the pay wall the reaction from the current players/vets that don’t like the pre-purchase has already caused some new/potential players to not get the game at all.

There are players who take an attack on Anet as an attack on themselves. Even when Anet deserves criticism (which they do in this instance) the player base ends up fighting each other.

This is a sign of things to come I’m afraid, as all future content will be HoT realated and will cause a have vs. have not cast system within the community.

Mooncaller, your post is way too long to quote and leave room for the rest of what I need to say, so let me just say this: I agree with most of your sentiments despite being on the opposite side of the issue (as I intend to get one of the upper versions anyway, and forfeit my right to complain about the cost). I do feel that the Standard package is a raw deal for those precise reasons.

Now, Aiden, you’ve made some comments I simply have to address:

“A new player gets
5 free slots
A bank tab
A material tab”

If you count all of this as “value” in the game’s purchase price, then release buyers of GW2 ($60, Standard Ed.) got all its regular content for cheaper than free, because $50 of it went to the character slots, $7.50 toward the vault, and $10 toward material storage. This means that the “value” of the world of Tyria and the Zhaitan Campaign cost $-7.50.

You should be weighing GW2’s content against HoT’s (and it’s still be unbalanced because HoT will include GW2), and ignore the slots and vault as being “default game capacity” for their respective features.

“Content like maps and living story which will undoubtedly be on those maps that can can only be accessed by purchasing the expansion thereby locking out those who don’t buy it is absolutely a Paywall.”

In all my time on Guild Wars 2, I have never heard anyone say that Cantha, Elona, and the North were behind a paywall. Even though you couldn’t access them without paying. Nobody saw that as wrong. (People who started with Factions and Nightfall could even claim Tyria was behind a paywall, by your argument!) It was how expansions work. This is literally older than MMORPGs. Video games have had expansions at least since 1992 (the oldest expansion pack I personally own… that I can remember)! Even older still – collectible card games, tabletop role-playing games, even board games themselves (although very rarely) have had added-later, sold-separately additions!

So while I will support the argument over pricing, I WILL NOT say anyone should get Heart of Thorns access for free. That’d be like saying “I wish all Arenanet employees lost their home utilities and starved”. Because, you know, food and bills cost money. Arenanet employees earn theirs by programming for their games.

“I want exactly what a new play gets, the core game add-on which I’ll use as a storage account and HoT upgrading my current account.”

They do NOT get that. They do not have the option to disassociate the two. Therefore, you are not wanting “exactly what a new player gets”.

P.S. While I do support the idea that the Standard Edition is giving veterans a raw deal, the reason I did not push that angle in this post is because Arenanet hasn’t yet gotten to answering it in the places where it’s already addressed to them. Their silence only bothers me further; I remember an Arenanet that was proud of its transparency.

In this post, I’m simply replying to cases where the complaints are pushing too far and expecting more than their fair share. And while Aiden’s posts are the ones I chose due to his prominence in this particular thread, his sentiments echo countless others in other threads – my intent is not to single you out, Aiden, but simply to use you as a representative of them. Because it’s almost 3 A.M. and I can’t reply to each individual thread. (They’ll all probably fold into the primary thread, anyway.)

Duke Darkwood.4237:

In this post, I’m simply replying to cases where the complaints are pushing too far and expecting more than their fair share. And while Aiden’s posts are the ones I chose due to his prominence in this particular thread, his sentiments echo countless others in other threads – my intent is not to single you out, Aiden, but simply to use you as a representative of them. Because it’s almost 3 A.M. and I can’t reply to each individual thread. (They’ll all probably fold into the primary thread, anyway.)

Wall of text (which I aprove of) post. I don’t feel singled out at all and I appreciate your sentiments although I disagree with your disagreement on a few points.

As an aside, the veteran player gets less than a new player that’s indisputable so if that’s brought up it’s best to ignore it, sorry not to be rude but it isn’t worth my time to argue that.

Anet gives new players the base game to avoid a Paywall but the packages offered will end creating one. This is what my post is about, new players in HoT while vets aren’t. LS S3 will most likely be in HoT and you can’t get there without the xpac so that is a Paywall locking out content yet to be released. This is my opinion, let’s hope it turns out well for GW2

Duke Darkwood.4237:

Mooncaller, your post is way too long to quote and leave room for the rest of what I need to say, so let me just say this: I agree with most of your sentiments despite being on the opposite side of the issue (as I intend to get one of the upper versions anyway, and forfeit my right to complain about the cost). I do feel that the Standard package is a raw deal for those precise reasons.

My wife and I are both likely to buy the Ultimate as well.
But instead of just ordering the lack of a character slot at the Standard level gave me pause, which led me to the FAQ, which led me to the forums. And in the end I learned about other issues (like the language on the order page and the lack of discount to players who bought under the encouragement of the stealthily changed FAQ).
Now instead of handing our money over we’re being a lot more cautious, reading content updates, and very interested in how this kittenstorm is resolved.

I think giving players a reason to hesitate was a very foolish idea. (Granted the “not enough content” crowd would have possibly existed at any price point other than free, but those arguments are highly subjective and not really worth discussing.)

Under the current pricing I would need to buy a character slot to play the new profession if I bought Standard. This smells of nickle and diming / money grabbing and so now it has made me a lot more interested in and cautious about what the expansion will contain. But, neither my wife or I would have paused or even blinked about dropping $100 each when the pre-purchase was announced had the character slot been included at all price points.

I played GW1, all its expansions / standalone add-ons, and pre-purchased GW2. I could rightfully be called a “fanboy”. But given reason to pause / hesitate I now have more doubt in the product than I did before and so I am being far more cautious with ArenaNet going forward.

@Mooncaller I agree that if a player’s arguement is that the expansion lacks content they would be upset at any price but if they feel that the expansion lacks content to justify the price, I can see that as valid. I own all the games myself and my wife and I are guildies which is cool, but for now, we aren’t buying because we feel we’re not getting a fair deal.

Mooncaller.9634:

I think giving players a reason to hesitate was a very foolish idea. (Granted the “not enough content” crowd would have possibly existed at any price point other than free, but those arguments are highly subjective and not really worth discussing.)

When you’re looking at a likelihood verging on absolute certainty that there will be a “not enough content” crowd (I’m one of them, by the way), it would have made so much sense to sweeten the pot with a more favorable deal on purchase.

That more favorable deal would’ve done so much to mitigate all of the anger and misgivings. Think about this changed FAQ situation that has people up in arms about having bought the game very recently, in the now incorrect belief that they needed to.

If the standard $50 edition wasn’t such an inferior deal for people already owning a GW2 account, that situation wouldn’t be the issue it now is. If the basic HoT package was a bit more attractive for “veterans”, whether they played for 3 years or 3 weeks, people would be jumping with joy that they got into the game just in time, instead of feeling like someone pulled a fast one on them.

Hot Vanilla (nothing added) for $35 would have went over really well. I think a large majority would have slapped down the credit card and purchased it right away. That missing fourth purchasing option is what created all the havok this week.

The price is too high for just the expansion, if it was like 35 euros it would be acceptable but 50 is too much and they kinda force us to go for Ultimate edition, else we gonna feel that our money have no so much of a value. Also, there is no reason to pre-purchase since the bonuses are nothing of interest (and most of us have a beta key).

Now, I was thinking as well not to buy the expansion till they put at on a discount, maybe a year later… but I don’t know… I just feel that it is not fair to pay so much for so little without even getting at least a considerable bonus.

DeWolfe.2174:

Hot Vanilla (nothing added) for $35 would have went over really well. I think a large majority would have slapped down the credit card and purchased it right away. That missing fourth purchasing option is what created all the havok this week.

This is basically what I think they should have done, too. This or the character slot thing (which I do not think “necessary” just because a class was added, but DO think it would cover the price disparity).

Duke Darkwood.4237:

DeWolfe.2174:

Hot Vanilla (nothing added) for $35 would have went over really well. I think a large majority would have slapped down the credit card and purchased it right away. That missing fourth purchasing option is what created all the havok this week.

This is basically what I think they should have done, too. This or the character slot thing (which I do not think “necessary” just because a class was added, but DO think it would cover the price disparity).

Maybe…but I wouldn’t be so sure. Even if they sold HoT for 35$ some people would have kept complaining, just not as many. The moral of the story is: people will always complain because people always want more for less. It’s a universal thing happening everywhere all the time.

As long as we don’t know everything HoT has to offer (and for example telling us how many zones HoT will include could help) there’s no way we can say whether 50$ is a fair price or not.

all we need now is for adobe to secretly purchase ncsoft and make us play guildwars 2 hot on the adobe cloud -gag-

They forgot 2 major rules of business.

1) A happy customer is a paying customer.
2) Customer appreciation. There is a reason many MANY business have customer appreciation events.

As long as we don’t know everything HoT has to offer (and for example telling us how many zones HoT will include could help) there’s no way we can say whether 50$ is a fair price or not.

This is one of the main reasons players don’t ‘bite’ into the preorder.

Even if they sold HoT for 35$ some people would have kept complaining, just not as many

Anet will NOT release a seperate HoT at a lower price, they made that very clear.

- the expansion will cost 50$, base game free included (since new ones need it)
- there will not be an added char slot with the standard edition

They just can’t change the deal they have offered since that would imply they need to change it for tose who already bought as well…way to much of a hassle and work.

What they will do is release more information about HoT in the coming months, making players and potential players more interested, and hoping players will eventually buy their product.

As for those that say it was all planned : NO company will use the arguement ‘any press is good press’ to sell more items. On the contrary : by having negative press, you push away new potential customers while letting older ones slip away to the competition.
Something which is obviously happening now.

If i were a potential new customer, and i’d read about the stuff going on here, i wouldn’t buy the game or preorder it, hell no. I’d be looking at some other game where things are quiet and where i know what i’m getting for my money.
Or do people really believe more copies are sold because players are saying ’we’re getting screwed." ?

My best guess is that they were hoping players would say “this is an amazing deal, lets preorder” and “look at all the things they add to the expansion!”. But the marketing division (or whoever decides there) made a big mistake. It’s that simple.

With all the competition out there, and some games releasing new stuff, will it be worth it for Anet to lose some of their playerbase in order to gain “potential” new ones ? That is a question only they can answer.

Straylight.7529:

Duke Darkwood.4237:

DeWolfe.2174:

Hot Vanilla (nothing added) for $35 would have went over really well. I think a large majority would have slapped down the credit card and purchased it right away. That missing fourth purchasing option is what created all the havok this week.

This is basically what I think they should have done, too. This or the character slot thing (which I do not think “necessary” just because a class was added, but DO think it would cover the price disparity).

Maybe…but I wouldn’t be so sure. Even if they sold HoT for 35$ some people would have kept complaining, just not as many. The moral of the story is: people will always complain because people always want more for less. It’s a universal thing happening everywhere all the time.

As long as we don’t know everything HoT has to offer (and for example telling us how many zones HoT will include could help) there’s no way we can say whether 50$ is a fair price or not.

That’s beside the point though. Sure, there would have been people complaining about whether there is enough content to justify spending their money, but as the guy said, that crowd would exist no matter what the price point was, short of being pretty much free. If Anet had offered a set base price for JUST the expansion (with maybe a character slot or two), and then had a separate package deal for both the base game AND the expansion that would be maybe slightly more expensive but still cheaper than buying the two separately, people wouldn’t be so angry and left feeling like they’re being given much less value for the exact same price.

That is what the root of the problem is for so many of us. It’s not so much about new players getting a better deal as it is that existing players are getting substantially less value despite having to pay the same amount of money. The fact that current players aren’t even getting so much as a character slot thrown their way despite their loyalty is just salt in the wound.

They forgot 2 major rules of business.
1) A happy customer is a paying customer.
2) Customer appreciation. There is a reason many MANY business have customer appreciation events.

Even my brother who owns a bakery does customer appreciation ‘events’. “Buy an item this week and you get 2 free chocolate frosted donuts” or sumething like that. But he won’t be saying “new customers get a free bread when buying a donut.” That’s just stupid.

@Aidenwolf I’m not saying that the lack of content argument isn’t a valid reason not to pre-purchase or buy the expansion, I’m just saying that this is a very highly subjective topic and the threshold of “enough content for price” is an extremely moving target.
Also, no matter what the price is everyone gets the same expansion, there is no difference between a new account and an existing account when it comes to what is contained in the expansion.

@Manasa Devi I personally think they would have had a lot less scrutiny and controversy on their hands if they had included the character slot at the Standard price point. I think the lack of a character slot and the ambiguous language regarding the inclusion of the core game are what tipped off this kittenstorm for most of the people here.
Clearly stating that the core was included ONLY for new accounts and including the character slot would likely have prevented a lot of his debacle.
Granted, you would still likely have the debate about price vs. content (that was going to happen no matter what, especially with a pre-purchase with so little information yet out).
You would still have the argument over the FAQ change, though due to the lower amount of scrutiny probably a much smaller segment of the community would be aware of it or citing it as an issue.

I think the price + inclusion of core + lack of character slot put them under the microscope.
I think the FAQ change and lack of clarity regarding inclusion of the core game severely fanned the embers into a raging flame.

I for one am interested to see if they are willing to, and how well they can, walk back this kittenstorm and repair their relationship with a large segment of the community that I think we can all agree is a lot less trusting of ArenaNet than they were a week ago.

imo – they can easily back out of this, i think the ultimate solution is the decision maker going back to their gut instincts and stop burying their heads in stats. no more head games, we love you and wouldn’t let you fall, providing you are actually still the you we’ve been supporting all these years.

while business is still business, it’s built on trust.

I’d rather they put out regular expansions than play marketing games for quick cash grabs.

The sad part is, that there’s now 2 paywalls that segregate players, and Anet said they didn’t want to do this. Just more broken promises.

The 1st paywall is Season 2 being locked behind gems.
The 2nd is the expansion now.

And don’t give me that tired old argument about joining someone else that has season 2 unlocked already, or the other one about converting gold to gems to buy them. It’s still blocking access and segregating players.

I agree with a lot of those sentiments expressed here.

They sell the core game & state you need it for the expansion.
They then do a 180 & bundle it with the expansion.
They then try to retro-edit this fact out of the FAQ.
They word things to make it sound like players will receive 1 HoT key & 1 GW2 key.
But that’s not the case, so it really isn’t a bundle.
They include a new class but leave out a character slot, fully aware (meta data) most players 3 years in will probably not have a free slot.
They then conveniently offer a character slot but at a much higher price (previous xpacs came with not 1 but 2, free).

Bottom line, my whole take on it is this: They knew what they were doing. Through clever wording and dirty marketing strategies, Anet and/or NCsoft tried tricking players into perceiving they were getting a lot more bang for their buck than they actually were in a bid to artificially boost reported sales figures/earnings. I really don’t see how anyone can come up with a convincing argument against this.

Where this goes, only time will tell. Anet’s between a pet rock & a hard place. The staff can’t really come on here and comment for fear of disciplinary action (termination) due to company policies so let’s cut them a break. Also remember the big wigs were at E3 promoting their warez. Anet needs time to come back, consult with NCsoft, sales, legal, and the PR team before they can (if at all) make any official statement. Who knows, Anet might (but I really doubt it) be the good guys in this and are having their hands tied by NCsoft and being made the scapegoat.

Odyssey.2613:

They then conveniently offer a character slot but at a much higher price (previous xpacs came with not 1 but 2, free).

I’m in the same mindset and agree with you, but do keep in mind the reason Factions/Nightfall gave two character slots each was because they both added two new professions.

Selene.9415:

Odyssey.2613:

They then conveniently offer a character slot but at a much higher price (previous xpacs came with not 1 but 2, free).

I’m in the same mindset and agree with you, but do keep in mind the reason Factions/Nightfall gave two character slots each was because they both added two new professions.

Even so, that just begs the argument that we should be getting at least one for the Revenant.

Black Box.9312:

Selene.9415:

Odyssey.2613:

They then conveniently offer a character slot but at a much higher price (previous xpacs came with not 1 but 2, free).

I’m in the same mindset and agree with you, but do keep in mind the reason Factions/Nightfall gave two character slots each was because they both added two new professions.

Even so, that just begs the argument that we should be getting at least one for the Revenant.

Yeah, of course. Sorry if I wasn’t clear, I tried to word it so that I didn’t come across as being against it >.< Just I see a lot of people throwing around “We got two slots with nightfall and factions!” as if there wasn’t a reason behind getting two slots.

Odyssey.2613:

Where this goes, only time will tell. Anet’s between a pet rock & a hard place. The staff can’t really come on here and comment for fear of disciplinary action (termination) due to company policies so let’s cut them a break. Also remember the big wigs were at E3 promoting their warez. Anet needs time to come back, consult with NCsoft, sales, legal, and the PR team before they can (if at all) make any official statement.

There’s more to it than that. We all know this will not be the last expansion they make, but what they do now will dictate what’s expected of them for future expansions.

Their response will affect them, good or bad, for years to come. They’re going to be considering this VERY carefully. And after so many excuses on various things, a soothing word or two will not work this time. Their first response to this needs to be entirely on target, they don’t get a second shot at fixing it.

Who knows, Anet might (but I really doubt it) be the good guys in this and are having their hands tied by NCsoft and being made the scapegoat.

As to that, however… Not our problem. If working with NCSoft is a problem for them, then they either need to break free or learn how to deal with it. It doesn’t matter if it’s NCSoft or ANet calling the shots here, the end result on us is the same. (Just stay civil, everyone. Please?)