Guild Wars 2

I finally got around to playing HoT content, then finally got all the necessary lore masteries, then FINALLY went through all of the story missions to face down Mordremoth… only to die and be placed in a ‘penalty box’ where I had to watch the entire battle from afar (see the screenshot). WTFluff is this?! This is SO disappointing! After all the work that I did, to just sit on the sideline? You would think there would be a way to get back into the fight – Maybe after death, you respawn in the real world and have to reenter the mind-rift or whatever.

PS – I died during the battle when Mordremoth summoned some sort of ground explosion and I had to jump into an air updraft to avoid it, only, I couldn’t find it will all the kitten particle effects swirling around the map at the same time.

Well dieing and ressing would be way epic then “watch from the sideline”. If you want to be part of the fight how about solo it or dont die???
Winning a fight by attrition ( take 10% of boss hp die, ress go again take another 10% until he dies ) is the most boring and unepic stuff you can put in the game.

I don’t understand, were you with a team fighting him? Because if not, you retry, with him having regenerated his health to max. You can retry as often as you wish (or as many armor pieces you carry with you or repair canisters).

Yes the penalty box is a horrible idea and I have no idea how it passed through testing or quality control, if there was any….

The penalty box was designed to avoid ressing make it so everyone gets one shot at the boss, increasing the need to “not slack”.
Although one can argue which is better, permanent grey-scale or looking down upon a fight, in both cases, you can’t participate after death

Amaimon.7823:

The penalty box was designed to avoid ressing make it so everyone gets one shot at the boss, increasing the need to “not slack”.
Although one can argue which is better, permanent grey-scale or looking down upon a fight, in both cases, you can’t participate after death

This.

I will agree that the penalty box was and is unintuitive since this is the only place it ever gets used and people are not used to others not being able to ressurect them in story missions.

That being said, as others mentioned the alternativ would have been you stay dead with a gray screen for the entire fight or arenanet allows for dying and ressurecting over and over which takes from the meaning of the fight.

Cyninja.2954:

Amaimon.7823:

The penalty box was designed to avoid ressing make it so everyone gets one shot at the boss, increasing the need to “not slack”.
Although one can argue which is better, permanent grey-scale or looking down upon a fight, in both cases, you can’t participate after death

This.

I will agree that the penalty box was and is unintuitive since this is the only place it ever gets used and people are not used to others not being able to ressurect them in story missions.

That being said, as others mentioned the alternativ would have been you stay dead with a gray screen for the entire fight or arenanet allows for dying and ressurecting over and over which takes from the meaning of the fight.

Because of this I have always been a supporter of the GW1 Haunted Hero system. Where after death you can Haunt a party member, NPC or real, and see their skills and mechanics as they move around. It’s especially nice when you’re still learning. You happen to die during a raid, can happen, now you can look over the shoulder of another party member and see how they use their class

Faaris.8013:

I don’t understand, were you with a team fighting him? Because if not, you retry, with him having regenerated his health to max. You can retry as often as you wish (or as many armor pieces you carry with you or repair canisters).

He was teamed with my elementalist at the time. Fortunately, being my 6th run through I was able to finish the battle.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Well dieing and ressing would be way epic then “watch from the sideline”. If you want to be part of the fight how about solo it or dont die???
Winning a fight by attrition ( take 10% of boss hp die, ress go again take another 10% until he dies ) is the most boring and unepic stuff you can put in the game.

But there’s a vast middle ground between “One chance is all you get” (Especially with that fight’s instant-defeat mechanic) and “Chip 10% off the health each time”

SamKablam.6241:

PS – I died during the battle when Mordremoth summoned some sort of ground explosion and I had to jump into an air updraft to avoid it, only, I couldn’t find it will all the kitten particle effects swirling around the map at the same time.

Two things of note.
1: you can now hide within the shield.
2: you only need to step over to the updrafts to get launched.

I had issues with that part of the story as well. For some reason, the updrafts wouldn’t actually launch me by running or jumping over/on them and I was unable to get myself into the air in time.

So it sucked standing there watching the rest of the party finishing the instance while I did nothing. I just wish they put in some sort of mechanic that would allow anyone trapped in the “penalty box” to get out of it. Give us an Interact somewhere that would spawn a mob we had to kill to be able to get out, or some object we have to destroy. At least then you have a chance to be able to break free and continue, or are at least occupied up there.

I think you guys are missing the entire point of the “Penalty Box” as you so put it. This encounter is intended to be challenging and introduces the concept of defeat without the chance of resurrection (just like what happens in raids – the content that follows from there). It also fit’s thematically in my opinion as well.

I think the better question is if you were doing it with a friend who has done it multiple times why they didn’t show you where to stand.

Actually the problem is having to convince those that get put in the penalty box, to stay so they will get credit for helping to kill Mordy. I spend more effort begging them to stay in the penalty box than the effort it takes to kill off Mordy…

1. Yes, those updrafts are a pain in the behind the first time around. Took me a while to understand that, in order to be uplifted, all you need to do is use the Interact Key (I have it bound to my middle mouse button, the default is “F”, if I remember correctly).

2. There is a branch in the northeast of the circle where you can glide up during the updraft phase and stay clear of any damage.

3. The penalty box is indeed frustrating. It takes you a couple of times doing this mission to learn its mechanics properly and not die.

4. Soloing this mission is not recommendable. It is easiest done with a party.

Ashantara.8731:

4. Soloing this mission is not recommendable. It is easiest done with a party.

ShadowGryphon.6257:

1: you can now hide within the shield.

Although it certainly is easier with a group (as basically everything), if you can really join your comrades under the shield now, I think that’s a fair solution that allows easier soloing. It was weird to be excluded from the shield anyway.

Okay, I am confussled: What shield are you talking about, and how can there be comrades when you are soloing??

Not everyone solos it. Usually I have guildees that have tried it solo 2 or 3 times, then ask for help, and we try to explain what they are missing in the encounter, and that we can carry them through, but if they mess up in the gliding phase, that they need to patiently wait out in the penalty box and they will still get Mordy kill credit.

Ashantara.8731:

Okay, I am confussled: What shield are you talking about, and how can there be comrades when you are soloing??

Well, you are not alone in the fight, there are Rytlock, Marjory, Braham, Caithe, Canach and Trahearne in this chapter. You convert the Blighted versions of them to allies in the fight. I think Canach is the one that creates a shield to protect everybody in the flight phases. And apparently they changed it so now you can join them under the shield instead of using the vents and fly.

I’m finally up to Hearts and Minds and have been holding off, knowing it’s a pain. I’m going to try to solo it a few times and if I’m not making progress I’ll LFG for help.

Good info in this thread. I didn’t know about being defeated causing you to go back to start. Realistic, but what a pain.

Got to do some research on it. I usually like doing these things without any advance knowledge for the surprises, but I’ve heard enough about this that I want to be prepared.

ShadowGryphon.6257:

SamKablam.6241:

PS – I died during the battle when Mordremoth summoned some sort of ground explosion and I had to jump into an air updraft to avoid it, only, I couldn’t find it will all the kitten particle effects swirling around the map at the same time.

Two things of note.
1: you can now hide within the shield.
2: you only need to step over to the updrafts to get launched.

I don’t think jumping was the issue:

“I couldn’t find it will all the kitten particle effects swirling around the map at the same time.”

Sable.7421:

I think you guys are missing the entire point of the “Penalty Box” as you so put it. This encounter is intended to be challenging and introduces the concept of defeat without the chance of resurrection

What a great idea! My character is supposed to be involved in this “EPIC STORY” but Anet purposefully puts him on the sidelines like this is some kind of hockey game. LOL

Djinn.9245:

My character is supposed to be involved in this “EPIC STORY” but Anet purposefully puts him on the sidelines like this is some kind of hockey game.

They’re trying to show you that you failed. It’s a fight of a mind, so you being defeated means Mordremoth took control. If they put more time into it, they likely would have used the blighted mechanic, where you’re replaced with a champion NPC that needs to be taken down in order to bring you back. Doing this however would have made it much harder for the people that actually needed to group up for this solo content.

Healix.5819:

Djinn.9245:

My character is supposed to be involved in this “EPIC STORY” but Anet purposefully puts him on the sidelines like this is some kind of hockey game.

They’re trying to show you that you failed. It’s a fight of a mind, so you being defeated means Mordremoth took control. If they put more time into it, they likely would have used the blighted mechanic, where you’re replaced with a champion NPC that needs to be taken down in order to bring you back. Doing this however would have made it much harder for the people that actually needed to group up for this solo content.

I don’t usually agree with Djinn on much, but in this case, I think he’s spot on. The story really shouldn’t be hard, because it’s something that would appeal to casuals, unlike something like raids. And the step up in difficulty and complexity in Hearts and Minds is pretty heavy. People who can solo everything up to this point have trouble with Hearts and Minds.

For people who are into immersion but not really challenging content, it’s a big blow. They were able to do it all before and suddenly they’re not feeling like a hero anymore.

Not everyone loves repeatingly trying the same content until they finally defeat it. That’s okay for achievements. That’s okay for raids or dungeons…but story really shouldn’t be like that, in my opinion.

Djinn.9245:

Sable.7421:

I think you guys are missing the entire point of the “Penalty Box” as you so put it. This encounter is intended to be challenging and introduces the concept of defeat without the chance of resurrection

What a great idea! My character is supposed to be involved in this “EPIC STORY” but Anet purposefully puts him on the sidelines like this is some kind of hockey game. LOL

The idea is that you WERE involved, but you failed. Mordremoth defeated you. You’re put on the sideline because Mordremoth owns you know. Be glad you’re not still on the field with Mordremoth’s HP bar green and those of your friends in red.

This is a solo instance. Do it like this and you won’t have this.

ProtoGunner.4953:

This is a solo instance. Do it like this and you won’t have this.

It’s an instance, not a solo instance. From the very beginning you could go with friends into personal stories without being penalized. There was precisely zero reason to change that.

I run a casual guild of a couple of hundred people, and I’ve had to do that mission about fifty times to help get people through it. I can’t tell you the number of times I soloed the end of it, because someone was in the penalty box.

You might love challenging content, but not everyone does and for the main story it’s probably a bad idea. It turns more people away from the game. Story is something casuals should be able to do with a relatively basic skill set.

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

This is a solo instance. Do it like this and you won’t have this.

It’s an instance, not a solo instance. From the very beginning you could go with friends into personal stories without being penalized. There was precisely zero reason to change that.

I run a casual guild of a couple of hundred people, and I’ve had to do that mission about fifty times to help get people through it. I can’t tell you the number of times I soloed the end of it, because someone was in the penalty box.

You might love challenging content, but not everyone does and for the main story it’s probably a bad idea. It turns more people away from the game. Story is something casuals should be able to do with a relatively basic skill set.

But if story missions are “press A to win”- then where is the sense of thrill, the sense of achievement, the sense of survival. Oh look it’s mordremoth, the elder dragon. He’s been designed so 10 year old jimmy with slow reflexes can kill him with just auto-attacking.. I better brace myself for this epic figh- oh.. he died while I blinked

But in all seriousness, sometime during those 50 trips to the penalty box, a spark must’ve travelled through the brain to make a person think “hey, my strategy isn’t working, I need to use more CC, I need more dodges, I need more mobility, I need more X or Y”, and then adjust the traits and skills to get that. And I’m honestly curious, did they invest anything in the fight? are they wielding/wearing optimal equipment, or are they running some weird prefix not meant for combat at all?

Amaimon.7823:

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

This is a solo instance. Do it like this and you won’t have this.

It’s an instance, not a solo instance. From the very beginning you could go with friends into personal stories without being penalized. There was precisely zero reason to change that.

I run a casual guild of a couple of hundred people, and I’ve had to do that mission about fifty times to help get people through it. I can’t tell you the number of times I soloed the end of it, because someone was in the penalty box.

You might love challenging content, but not everyone does and for the main story it’s probably a bad idea. It turns more people away from the game. Story is something casuals should be able to do with a relatively basic skill set.

But if story missions are “press A to win”- then where is the sense of thrill, the sense of achievement, the sense of survival. Oh look it’s mordremoth, the elder dragon. He’s been designed so 10 year old jimmy with slow reflexes can kill him with just auto-attacking.. I better brace myself for this epic figh- oh.. he died while I blinked

But in all seriousness, sometime during those 50 trips to the penalty box, a spark must’ve travelled through the brain to make a person think “hey, my strategy isn’t working, I need to use more CC, I need more dodges, I need more mobility, I need more X or Y”, and then adjust the traits and skills to get that. And I’m honestly curious, did they invest anything in the fight? are they wielding/wearing optimal equipment, or are they running some weird prefix not meant for combat at all?

I would/could agree with you if this were a World Boss, but not on a Personal Story. I think that’s what is being missed Personal should be soloable without having to invest in different armor or weapons than what was used to get to this point. Remember you aren’t actually killing Mordy at this point its a mind game, his death comes from the Dragon Stand Event.

Healix.5819:

Djinn.9245:

My character is supposed to be involved in this “EPIC STORY” but Anet purposefully puts him on the sidelines like this is some kind of hockey game.

They’re trying to show you that you failed. It’s a fight of a mind, so you being defeated means Mordremoth took control. If they put more time into it, they likely would have used the blighted mechanic, where you’re replaced with a champion NPC that needs to be taken down in order to bring you back. Doing this however would have made it much harder for the people that actually needed to group up for this solo content.

So Anet doesn’t think that I understand that if I die and can’t be rezzed, I failed? They have to put me in a special “you failed” box?

So Anet is a griefer…“L2P!”

Also, if they really wanted me to fail if I die during the fight, they should just kick me. As it is, I just feel bad but I can still get a completion.

Vayne.8563:

Story is something casuals should be able to do with a relatively basic skill set.

ArenaNet has never supported the more casual players playing solo. As they continue to increase the difficulty, more people are simply hitting their walls. This is the flaw with not offering vertical progression to enable players to overcome the difficulties of past content. It’s also probably why they even allow groups to trivialize it, as it’s GW2’s version of an easy mode instead of obtaining better gear.

The simple solution for the story is a stacking buff to make you more powerful the more you fail.

Amaimon.7823:

He’s been designed so 10 year old jimmy with slow reflexes can kill him with just auto-attacking.. I better brace myself for this epic figh- oh.. he died while I blinked

From Jimmy’s perspective however, it wasn’t just auto attacking to win, it was a thrill and sense of achievement.

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

I would/could agree with you if this were a World Boss, but not on a Personal Story. I think that’s what is being missed Personal should be soloable without having to invest in different armor or weapons than what was used to get to this point. Remember you aren’t actually killing Mordy at this point its a mind game, his death comes from the Dragon Stand Event.

No need to invest in anything. Just swap some utilities around and don’t stay in red circles.

Thing you kill in DS is mordy’s mouth. You kill mordy in that final story fight.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

I would/could agree with you if this were a World Boss, but not on a Personal Story. I think that’s what is being missed Personal should be soloable without having to invest in different armor or weapons than what was used to get to this point. Remember you aren’t actually killing Mordy at this point its a mind game, his death comes from the Dragon Stand Event.

No need to invest in anything. Just swap some utilities around and don’t stay in red circles.

Thing you kill in DS is mordy’s mouth. You kill mordy in that final story fight.

Gotcha I always thought the DS was killing off Mordy Thanks for the info.

Yeah I have completed on multiple Toons I just always feel sorry for anyone stuck in the penalty box.

I’ve also gotten past this part too many times to count and the game glitches and won’t let us finish but that’s something entirely different.

My thought is they should be able to be resurrected since they allow folks to res against World Bosses. Again this is my opinion only others may/will vary lol

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

Amaimon.7823:

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

This is a solo instance. Do it like this and you won’t have this.

It’s an instance, not a solo instance. From the very beginning you could go with friends into personal stories without being penalized. There was precisely zero reason to change that.

I run a casual guild of a couple of hundred people, and I’ve had to do that mission about fifty times to help get people through it. I can’t tell you the number of times I soloed the end of it, because someone was in the penalty box.

You might love challenging content, but not everyone does and for the main story it’s probably a bad idea. It turns more people away from the game. Story is something casuals should be able to do with a relatively basic skill set.

But if story missions are “press A to win”- then where is the sense of thrill, the sense of achievement, the sense of survival. Oh look it’s mordremoth, the elder dragon. He’s been designed so 10 year old jimmy with slow reflexes can kill him with just auto-attacking.. I better brace myself for this epic figh- oh.. he died while I blinked

But in all seriousness, sometime during those 50 trips to the penalty box, a spark must’ve travelled through the brain to make a person think “hey, my strategy isn’t working, I need to use more CC, I need more dodges, I need more mobility, I need more X or Y”, and then adjust the traits and skills to get that. And I’m honestly curious, did they invest anything in the fight? are they wielding/wearing optimal equipment, or are they running some weird prefix not meant for combat at all?

I would/could agree with you if this were a World Boss, but not on a Personal Story. I think that’s what is being missed Personal should be soloable without having to invest in different armor or weapons than what was used to get to this point. Remember you aren’t actually killing Mordy at this point its a mind game, his death comes from the Dragon Stand Event.

I see your point, although I’m still a little sceptical. A game should have some level of progression, otherwise you just lose the thrill. But in both our defences, it would’ve been nice if we had an easy and hard mode like we had in gw1. And by that I don’t mean the the Migraine approach the boss currently had.

But on a side-note, your last statement isn’t true.
The Mouth of Mordremoth is his physical tangent that eats the magic, however, it’s the execution INSIDE the mind, and later the execution of Trahearne that kills mordremoth. Remember what they say during the story instance, you can kill and maim his body as much as you like, as long as a leaf with his mind in it survives, Mordremoth can return. So trahearne intentionally lets mordremoth slip into him, after which he orders the commanders to execute him. It’s the execution of the mouth of mordremoth (the event) that weakened Mordremoth enough to allow this all to happen.

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Sable.7421:

I think you guys are missing the entire point of the “Penalty Box” as you so put it. This encounter is intended to be challenging and introduces the concept of defeat without the chance of resurrection

What a great idea! My character is supposed to be involved in this “EPIC STORY” but Anet purposefully puts him on the sidelines like this is some kind of hockey game. LOL

The idea is that you WERE involved, but you failed. Mordremoth defeated you. You’re put on the sideline because Mordremoth owns you know. Be glad you’re not still on the field with Mordremoth’s HP bar green and those of your friends in red.

Funny you should mention that … there is a bug if you play a sylvari where this can happen without you ever being defeated. If you get downed when your friends try to ress you if will be a stomp instead.

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

I would/could agree with you if this were a World Boss, but not on a Personal Story. I think that’s what is being missed Personal should be soloable without having to invest in different armor or weapons than what was used to get to this point. Remember you aren’t actually killing Mordy at this point its a mind game, his death comes from the Dragon Stand Event.

No need to invest in anything. Just swap some utilities around and don’t stay in red circles.

Thing you kill in DS is mordy’s mouth. You kill mordy in that final story fight.

Gotcha I always thought the DS was killing off Mordy Thanks for the info.

Yeah I have completed on multiple Toons I just always feel sorry for anyone stuck in the penalty box.

I’ve also gotten past this part too many times to count and the game glitches and won’t let us finish but that’s something entirely different.

My thought is they should be able to be resurrected since they allow folks to res against World Bosses. Again this is my opinion only others may/will vary lol

Instances in general do not allow ressing until all party members are either dead or out of combat. That aside if you are in there with a group there is nothing stopping people from ressing from downed state assuming it is normal and not migraine mode. The only exception is during the flight phase but that is also a migraine only issue now.

What this really boils down to is that people are still unaware of the change or just unaware of the ability to stand in the bubble despite the voice over from your character mentioning it.

Faaris.8013:

Ashantara.8731:

Okay, I am confussled: What shield are you talking about, and how can there be comrades when you are soloing??

Well, you are not alone in the fight, there are Rytlock, Marjory, Braham, Caithe, Canach and Trahearne in this chapter.

Oh, you meant the NPC allies.

I think Canach is the one that creates a shield to protect everybody in the flight phases. And apparently they changed it so now you can join them under the shield instead of using the vents and fly.

I didn’t know that, since I don’t play that instance very often (already have all the achievements) and usually spend the fly phase up on the branch.

Amaimon.7823:

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

This is a solo instance. Do it like this and you won’t have this.

It’s an instance, not a solo instance. From the very beginning you could go with friends into personal stories without being penalized. There was precisely zero reason to change that.

I run a casual guild of a couple of hundred people, and I’ve had to do that mission about fifty times to help get people through it. I can’t tell you the number of times I soloed the end of it, because someone was in the penalty box.

You might love challenging content, but not everyone does and for the main story it’s probably a bad idea. It turns more people away from the game. Story is something casuals should be able to do with a relatively basic skill set.

But if story missions are “press A to win”- then where is the sense of thrill, the sense of achievement, the sense of survival. Oh look it’s mordremoth, the elder dragon. He’s been designed so 10 year old jimmy with slow reflexes can kill him with just auto-attacking.. I better brace myself for this epic figh- oh.. he died while I blinked

But in all seriousness, sometime during those 50 trips to the penalty box, a spark must’ve travelled through the brain to make a person think “hey, my strategy isn’t working, I need to use more CC, I need more dodges, I need more mobility, I need more X or Y”, and then adjust the traits and skills to get that. And I’m honestly curious, did they invest anything in the fight? are they wielding/wearing optimal equipment, or are they running some weird prefix not meant for combat at all?

They’re not all press A to win though, even in LS Season 2. That was the transitional stuff to HOT and a lot of people didn’t play them.

Faaris.8013:

…And apparently they changed it so now you can join them under the shield instead of using the vents and fly.

Sorry this is going a bit off topic, but is this confirmed? I’m prepping to do this fight and all the guides I’ve found indicate that gliding is necessary. However, they could all have been done before the change.

Vayne.8563:

Amaimon.7823:

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

This is a solo instance. Do it like this and you won’t have this.

It’s an instance, not a solo instance. From the very beginning you could go with friends into personal stories without being penalized. There was precisely zero reason to change that.

I run a casual guild of a couple of hundred people, and I’ve had to do that mission about fifty times to help get people through it. I can’t tell you the number of times I soloed the end of it, because someone was in the penalty box.

You might love challenging content, but not everyone does and for the main story it’s probably a bad idea. It turns more people away from the game. Story is something casuals should be able to do with a relatively basic skill set.

But if story missions are “press A to win”- then where is the sense of thrill, the sense of achievement, the sense of survival. Oh look it’s mordremoth, the elder dragon. He’s been designed so 10 year old jimmy with slow reflexes can kill him with just auto-attacking.. I better brace myself for this epic figh- oh.. he died while I blinked

But in all seriousness, sometime during those 50 trips to the penalty box, a spark must’ve travelled through the brain to make a person think “hey, my strategy isn’t working, I need to use more CC, I need more dodges, I need more mobility, I need more X or Y”, and then adjust the traits and skills to get that. And I’m honestly curious, did they invest anything in the fight? are they wielding/wearing optimal equipment, or are they running some weird prefix not meant for combat at all?

They’re not all press A to win though, even in LS Season 2. That was the transitional stuff to HOT and a lot of people didn’t play them.

They’re not all press A to win, most of them are “stand here and press A to win, then dodge, move over here and continue pressing A to win”. The only boss I’ve fought so far this is less cheese-cut on is Caudecus, as it appears he is also pressing A to win.
We’re currently not Press A To Win, but we’re only 1 step away from it. if LS becomes any easier than it is, I just can’t take villains seriously anymore.

As for the transitional period, LS2 has a nice curve introducing new mechanics, so you can tackle the jungle with newfound confidence. If players skip that and go straight to the jungle, is anet at fault, or the players?
that’s like going from high school to university without doing a lectural period, I mean, you can if you’re good, but chances are, 90% of the people who try that will fail and then complain the leap is too big.

Sarpan.9074:

Faaris.8013:

…And apparently they changed it so now you can join them under the shield instead of using the vents and fly.

Sorry this is going a bit off topic, but is this confirmed? I’m prepping to do this fight and all the guides I’ve found indicate that gliding is necessary. However, they could all have been done before the change.

It is. I did it a couple times since the change. Gliding is still necessary for Migraine mode which is also significantly harder than normal and not meant to be solo … probably.

Amaimon.7823:

Vayne.8563:

Amaimon.7823:

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

This is a solo instance. Do it like this and you won’t have this.

It’s an instance, not a solo instance. From the very beginning you could go with friends into personal stories without being penalized. There was precisely zero reason to change that.

I run a casual guild of a couple of hundred people, and I’ve had to do that mission about fifty times to help get people through it. I can’t tell you the number of times I soloed the end of it, because someone was in the penalty box.

You might love challenging content, but not everyone does and for the main story it’s probably a bad idea. It turns more people away from the game. Story is something casuals should be able to do with a relatively basic skill set.

But if story missions are “press A to win”- then where is the sense of thrill, the sense of achievement, the sense of survival. Oh look it’s mordremoth, the elder dragon. He’s been designed so 10 year old jimmy with slow reflexes can kill him with just auto-attacking.. I better brace myself for this epic figh- oh.. he died while I blinked

But in all seriousness, sometime during those 50 trips to the penalty box, a spark must’ve travelled through the brain to make a person think “hey, my strategy isn’t working, I need to use more CC, I need more dodges, I need more mobility, I need more X or Y”, and then adjust the traits and skills to get that. And I’m honestly curious, did they invest anything in the fight? are they wielding/wearing optimal equipment, or are they running some weird prefix not meant for combat at all?

They’re not all press A to win though, even in LS Season 2. That was the transitional stuff to HOT and a lot of people didn’t play them.

They’re not all press A to win, most of them are “stand here and press A to win, then dodge, move over here and continue pressing A to win”. The only boss I’ve fought so far this is less cheese-cut on is Caudecus, as it appears he is also pressing A to win.
We’re currently not Press A To Win, but we’re only 1 step away from it. if LS becomes any easier than it is, I just can’t take villains seriously anymore.

As for the transitional period, LS2 has a nice curve introducing new mechanics, so you can tackle the jungle with newfound confidence. If players skip that and go straight to the jungle, is anet at fault, or the players?
that’s like going from high school to university without doing a lectural period, I mean, you can if you’re good, but chances are, 90% of the people who try that will fail and then complain the leap is too big.

The difficulty of the LS is extremely varied, depending on a number of factors. That’s the same with the Modremonth fight. I don’t particularly find it hard, so much as long and annoying.

But other people DO find it hard, and not just a few of them. Obviously you’re a good player, but you can’t make bosses only for good players, particularly in the main story which everyone is going to want to finish. You want that kind of content, do high level fractals and raids, because you’re not getting it in the personal story, as it should be.

But there are plenty of people who can’t finish stories. That have trouble even in Bloodstone Fen stories.

The difficulty of story encounters shouldn’t be based around the top 10% or the bottom 10%. They should fall somewhere in the middle and most of them do.

You can say you can do them easily. It’s not the same as saying they’re easy. They’re only easy for you.

Heh the Caudecus fight was easy on my mesmer and guardian. Mesmer because of reflect. Just drop wardens on him and Temporal Curtain when you want to get a skill off without being interrupted. Guardian just facetanked through the whole thing with healing symbols and AH…

During the first two flight phases in Hearts and Minds you can also continue to attack Mordremoth with ranged attacks. Not a big deal but I can usually take off another 1% of health. Speeds things up a tiny bit.

Vayne.8563:

Amaimon.7823:

Vayne.8563:

Amaimon.7823:

Vayne.8563:

ProtoGunner.4953:

This is a solo instance. Do it like this and you won’t have this.

It’s an instance, not a solo instance. From the very beginning you could go with friends into personal stories without being penalized. There was precisely zero reason to change that.

I run a casual guild of a couple of hundred people, and I’ve had to do that mission about fifty times to help get people through it. I can’t tell you the number of times I soloed the end of it, because someone was in the penalty box.

You might love challenging content, but not everyone does and for the main story it’s probably a bad idea. It turns more people away from the game. Story is something casuals should be able to do with a relatively basic skill set.

But if story missions are “press A to win”- then where is the sense of thrill, the sense of achievement, the sense of survival. Oh look it’s mordremoth, the elder dragon. He’s been designed so 10 year old jimmy with slow reflexes can kill him with just auto-attacking.. I better brace myself for this epic figh- oh.. he died while I blinked

But in all seriousness, sometime during those 50 trips to the penalty box, a spark must’ve travelled through the brain to make a person think “hey, my strategy isn’t working, I need to use more CC, I need more dodges, I need more mobility, I need more X or Y”, and then adjust the traits and skills to get that. And I’m honestly curious, did they invest anything in the fight? are they wielding/wearing optimal equipment, or are they running some weird prefix not meant for combat at all?

They’re not all press A to win though, even in LS Season 2. That was the transitional stuff to HOT and a lot of people didn’t play them.

They’re not all press A to win, most of them are “stand here and press A to win, then dodge, move over here and continue pressing A to win”. The only boss I’ve fought so far this is less cheese-cut on is Caudecus, as it appears he is also pressing A to win.
We’re currently not Press A To Win, but we’re only 1 step away from it. if LS becomes any easier than it is, I just can’t take villains seriously anymore.

As for the transitional period, LS2 has a nice curve introducing new mechanics, so you can tackle the jungle with newfound confidence. If players skip that and go straight to the jungle, is anet at fault, or the players?
that’s like going from high school to university without doing a lectural period, I mean, you can if you’re good, but chances are, 90% of the people who try that will fail and then complain the leap is too big.

The difficulty of the LS is extremely varied, depending on a number of factors. That’s the same with the Modremonth fight. I don’t particularly find it hard, so much as long and annoying.

But other people DO find it hard, and not just a few of them. Obviously you’re a good player, but you can’t make bosses only for good players, particularly in the main story which everyone is going to want to finish. You want that kind of content, do high level fractals and raids, because you’re not getting it in the personal story, as it should be.

But there are plenty of people who can’t finish stories. That have trouble even in Bloodstone Fen stories.

The difficulty of story encounters shouldn’t be based around the top 10% or the bottom 10%. They should fall somewhere in the middle and most of them do.

You can say you can do them easily. It’s not the same as saying they’re easy. They’re only easy for you.

but that is why I always advocate the GW1 system: normal mode and hard mode.
Normal mode: 75% of the playerbase should be able to clear it (if they know what they’re doing), while Hard mode should be unclearable without knowledge of mechanics and optimal builds. But anet doesn’t have the resources to make this, I think. And the way the latest raids handled it is kinda cheesy and counter-intuitive.

@;Amaimon.7823

but that is why I always advocate the GW1 system: normal mode and hard mode.
Normal mode: 75% of the playerbase should be able to clear it (if they know what they’re doing), while Hard mode should be unclearable without knowledge of mechanics and optimal builds. But anet doesn’t have the resources to make this, I think. And the way the latest raids handled it is kinda cheesy and counter-intuitive.[/quote]

Normal mode and hard mode is more work. Guild Wars 1 was a much easier game to program for a number of reasons, including pathing, no gliding now, no open world, I could go on.

The point is it takes six months to make and test 1 zone and a short story in this game. People already say there’s not enough content. Now you want to add a hard mode to that? Two sets of zones or instances that can get bugged, that need to be fixed/upgraded.

Not to mention splitting the playerbase.

It really doesn’t make sense for open world maps, it only makes sense for instances.

Most people do story instances a couple of times. I’m not sure hard mode is any kind of answer here.

If I were developing a game, hard mode would not be an issue.

Though I might do challenge motes for Fractals. We’ve already seen one of them and I suspect we’ll see more.

Depending of course on how many people actually care enough to do them.

Of course in the Modremoth story is there IS a hard mode. The problem is, the easy mode is still too challenging for many people. The hard mode for that story is already there.

Amaimon.7823:

As for the transitional period, LS2 has a nice curve introducing new mechanics, so you can tackle the jungle with newfound confidence. If players skip that and go straight to the jungle, is anet at fault, or the players?
that’s like going from high school to university without doing a lectural period, I mean, you can if you’re good, but chances are, 90% of the people who try that will fail and then complain the leap is too big.

You have to pay to get LS2 if you weren’t logging in (like if you’re a new player). A lot of players don’t even know LS2 exists. So it’s not exactly like “choosing to skip”.

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

As for the transitional period, LS2 has a nice curve introducing new mechanics, so you can tackle the jungle with newfound confidence. If players skip that and go straight to the jungle, is anet at fault, or the players?
that’s like going from high school to university without doing a lectural period, I mean, you can if you’re good, but chances are, 90% of the people who try that will fail and then complain the leap is too big.

You have to pay to get LS2 if you weren’t logging in (like if you’re a new player). A lot of players don’t even know LS2 exists. So it’s not exactly like “choosing to skip”.

I mean, yea, I agree on that last bit.
It was my stance that instead of Core they should have given LS2 with the sales of HoT, I mean, without LS2 HoT is just weird