Guild Wars 2

This is a great interview that goes fairly in depth in its look at defiance and how it will change in HoT. http://www.tentonhammer.com/preview/guild-wars-2-exclusive-meet-defiant-wyvern

Oh, very nice! Hopefully that means we’ll be seeing a lot more articles today that derive from yesterday’s tour.

Sounds like an interesting change to defiance (something else we’ve pleaded with anet for). I’m going to wait to try it before I make any judgements on it.

It sounds really nice.
They pretty much got the existent mechanic and just added visual indications to it but used it in a clever way.

I’m curious how it will play out for current mobs, and if it will play a part in current bosses who are simply immune to all that by default.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I’m curious how it will play out for current mobs, and if it will play a part in current bosses who are simply immune to all that by default.

Actually, current bosses with defiance already works like that, the difference is that you don’t have any visual information, you need to organize with your party to remove it.

Belzebu.3912:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I’m curious how it will play out for current mobs, and if it will play a part in current bosses who are simply immune to all that by default.

Actually, current bosses with defiance already works like that, the difference is that you don’t have any visual information, you need to organize with your party to remove it.

No? Defiance works the way defiance works. There is no bar that you can whittle away at, that the zerg could potentially strip indefinitely depending on how fast the regen is. I’m not talking about dungeons here where you get a max 5 stacks. But that is still stacks, not a bar.

Belzebu.3912:

It sounds really nice.
They pretty much got the existent mechanic and just added visual indications to it but used it in a clever way.

The way I read it, there are some subtle differences between what we have now – beyond the simple addition of a bar.

The biggest is the idea of defiance (or break bar) regenerating over time. This should mean we cant just spam interrupts and then “save” the last one for the big attack the way we can now. Instead, people will need to save most of their interrupts and spike them when it is direly needed.

The other is the idea of the bar changing or behaving differently during massive attacks, such as the flight mechanic they mention in the article.

For me, these are very welcome changes that I can see making for both better future fights, as well as improving existing fights (for example, a more logical interrupt mechanic for the risen priest of Melandru’s animal transformation attack).

I’m interested in the fact it will also be something to look out for on players.

I’m actually hoping for another article/deep dive concerning HoT today. The previous wednesdays in the past weeks all had one.

Sound like a pretty good change for the defiance mechanic. However, I’d like some clarity in what happens to mobs when you deplete their defiance bar. In the above article they stated that the wyverns would take increased damage and would be stunned, but how will retroactive mobs be effected? There are most likely 3 ways in which the mobs could be effected.

1. Like the Wyvern all mobs will be auto-stunned for X amount of seconds with increased damage.

2. All CC effects work for a short time.

3. Only the 1st CC after the bar goes down works.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I’m actually hoping for another article/deep dive concerning HoT today. The previous wednesdays in the past weeks all had one.

Not really expecting anything today – for two reasons. The first is they want to let media attending the event in on the fun of showing us new stuff – and second is they are probably really busy with their guests today.

Blaeys.3102:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I’m actually hoping for another article/deep dive concerning HoT today. The previous wednesdays in the past weeks all had one.

Not really expecting anything today – for two reasons. The first is they want to let media attending the event in on the fun of showing us new stuff – and second is they are probably really busy with their guests today.

What event/guests? If you are referring to Pax east or EGX Rezzed wasn’t that in March?

They’ve had a number of video bloggers (and other press?) in their HQ yesterday and maybe today. Angry Joe was one, per his thread on these forums requesting players to submit questions for him to ask while there.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

What event/guests? If you are referring to Pax east or EGX Rezzed wasn’t that in March?

They have invited quite a bit of press people both in the US and EU to give some new details and allow playing of HoT.

I believe I heard something about an embargo on information until Tuesday, but it does seem like we will get something rather big by then.

This bar is more pug friendly now. But it looks like it might be possible for organised groups to completely stunlock bosses with even greater ease (chain icebow 5’s).

And it is essentially the same system. Defiant stacks and defiant bar works the same way in that you have to strip it down to land a CC. The difference is each CC now contributes different amounts to the bar and the bar now regens. So solo players can no longer whittle down defiant stacks ready for an interrupt. So it makes it almost impossible to use effectively in solos but makes it easier for groups. Not really sure how i feel about this.

lordkrall.7241:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

What event/guests? If you are referring to Pax east or EGX Rezzed wasn’t that in March?

They have invited quite a bit of press people both in the US and EU to give some new details and allow playing of HoT.

I believe I heard something about an embargo on information until Tuesday, but it does seem like we will get something rather big by then.

Ah I see. I guess that means no article today then

Indeed.

But there could be one tomorrow. I seem to recall them doing something similar a few weeks back, with a teaser on Monday. Exclusive interview on Wednesday and Official Blog-post on Thursday.

This is pretty much Wildstar’s stun system. Coordinate stuns before major attack and do extra dmg if successful. Not saying its a bad idea but you could have been a bit more original. :P

Either way I like the change. Only problem I see is for solo players, but then again that all depends on how many stuns will be needed to break the mobs cast.

Does duration of the CC affect the bar?

Tim.6450:

Does duration of the CC affect the bar?

From what I got from the interview, yes, it does.

GoldenTruth.2853:

Sound like a pretty good change for the defiance mechanic. However, I’d like some clarity in what happens to mobs when you deplete their defiance bar. In the above article they stated that the wyverns would take increased damage and would be stunned, but how will retroactive mobs be effected? There are most likely 3 ways in which the mobs could be effected.

1. Like the Wyvern all mobs will be auto-stunned for X amount of seconds with increased damage.

2. All CC effects work for a short time.

3. Only the 1st CC after the bar goes down works.

This is pretty much my thoughts as well.
The “default behavior” I’m expecting option 3, but would prefer option 1 or 2.

edit: sounds like option one from what Anthony posted.
I like option one.

At the end the article says:“[…]this Defiance design is also going to be added to professions, specializations and their skills.”

Now what does that mean? Will different classes interact with the defiance in a different way?
Or does it mean that classes gain access to defiance? o.O

Me Games Ma.8426:

At the end the article says:“[…]this Defiance design is also going to be added to professions, specializations and their skills.”

Now what does that mean? Will different classes interact with the defiance in a different way?
Or does it mean that classes gain access to defiance? o.O

The later. There is a second article linked at the end with an expanded interview. I strongly suggest reading that one as well.

This actually seems rather different to me.

1) The visual indication is an improvement, since there are so many icons, it gets difficult to check — this is a clear improvement.
2) Before, you had to hold back to have 1 interrupt at the right time. Now, you hold back to unleash all interrupts at the right time. No more fiddly counting.
3) Now, the bar regenerates with time, rather than when a cc hits.
4) Different cc’s take a different amount off.

I like it, though it does make it harder to solo.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

GoldenTruth.2853:

…I’d like some clarity in what happens to mobs when you deplete their defiance bar….

I believe we’re still balancing the broad-reaching solution but yes, a significant stun will be applied. Pretty sure we’ll be releasing more details through our channels real soon.

I have some questions for you.

1. How will traits like “while target is CC’d, deal 20% more damage” interact with bosses? Or they won’t at all? If if it’s the later, is it possible to have bosses’ cc immunity work similar to the new boon, resistance, where effects are still applied even if they do not work? If so, this could make “while CC’d” traits more meaningful in PvE.
2. Now that defiance will also be available on players, is it safe to assume that professions are going to have traits that directly interact with defiance? It would certainly be a lot of fun if control builds could sacrifice damage traits for something like “Your CC makes defiance bar deplet 10% faster. You gain X boon or apply Y condition if bar is fully depleted”. Is Anet considering those options?
3. Are there any plans for bosses designed around CC applying its intended effects? Like, fights designed around immobilize actually immobilizing, or blind merely blinding?

And this is why the stability buff is going to be served as stacks. Brilliant! I like this move, ArenaNet! My stun lock warrior is definitely looking more fun by the minute!

spoj.9672:

This bar is more pug friendly now. But it looks like it might be possible for organised groups to completely stunlock bosses with even greater ease (chain icebow 5’s).

well I don’t think the bar is permanently visible on the enemies, the Wyvern for example has a phase when it attempts to fly – and in this window the bar appears (as I understand it) and you’ll be able to use your CCs to deplete the bar. Once the Wyvern is in the air, the bar can’t be drained / isn’t visible (?).

correct me if I’m wrong

DiogoSilva.7089:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

GoldenTruth.2853:

…I’d like some clarity in what happens to mobs when you deplete their defiance bar….

I believe we’re still balancing the broad-reaching solution but yes, a significant stun will be applied. Pretty sure we’ll be releasing more details through our channels real soon.

I have some questions for you.

1. How will traits like “while target is CC’d, deal 20% more damage” interact with bosses? Or they won’t at all? If if it’s the later, is it possible to have bosses’ cc immunity work similar to the new boon, resistance, where effects are still applied even if they do not work? If so, this could make “while CC’d” traits more meaningful in PvE.
2. Now that defiance will also be available on players, is it safe to assume that professions are going to have traits that directly interact with defiance? It would certainly be a lot of fun if control builds could sacrifice damage traits for something like “Your CC makes defiance bar deplet 10% faster. You gain X boon or apply Y condition if bar is fully depleted”. Is Anet considering those options?
3. Are there any plans for bosses designed around CC applying its intended effects? Like, fights designed around immobilize actually immobilizing, or blind merely blinding?

I expect the traits like +20% damage while foe is CC’d will apply to the “significant stun” a boss gets when the bar is emptied.

This sounds a lot better than the current defiance system. Will old bosses gain a new bar, or will the remain unshaken in their old ways?

Morsus.5106:

This sounds a lot better than the current defiance system. Will old bosses gain a new bar, or will the remain unshaken in their old ways?

They will gain a new bar. This is confirmed in the interview linked at the end of the article.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

spoj.9672:

This bar is more pug friendly now. But it looks like it might be possible for organised groups to completely stunlock bosses with even greater ease (chain icebow 5’s).

well I don’t think the bar is permanently visible on the enemies, the Wyvern for example has a phase when it attempts to fly – and in this window the bar appears (as I understand it) and you’ll be able to use your CCs to deplete the bar. Once the Wyvern is in the air, the bar can’t be drained / isn’t visible (?).

correct me if I’m wrong

They explicitly stated that the Wyvern has special mechanics tied to it. Im referring to old bosses and champions that will use the baseline defiant bar as a replacement for the current defiant stacks. They said they dont have the time go back and individually tweak each old boss to have special break mechanics so they will just implement the simple baseline defiant bar for those enemies.

Not sure if I like it or not.
It sounds like a great improvement for zergy and/or uncoordinated content, but it also looks like it will negatively affect solo and small group play.

Feel like this is a really refreshing change. I like it.
With this, maybe ranger will start to watch their finger and stop spaming PBS. Anyway, them spamming PBS will have almost no impact and that’s already good news. So thanks for the job Anet.
Now i’m really looking forward to play with this mechanism.

PS.: I don’t think this will be pug friendly. This will probably work better in organized group where people actually use their skills at the right moment. I’m also really curious on how this will impact dungeon (obviously this will be where the mechanism will be introduced first in the core game).

Vargamonth.2047:

Not sure if I like it or not.
It sounds like a great improvement for zergy and/or uncoordinated content, but it also looks like it will negatively affect solo and small group play.

Well if you look at Wildstar it works pretty well from solo content all the way to 20 man raids. Its the same system but who knows how many CC skills certain mobs/bosses will take before getting stunned in gw2.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

GoldenTruth.2853:

…I’d like some clarity in what happens to mobs when you deplete their defiance bar….

I believe we’re still balancing the broad-reaching solution but yes, a significant stun will be applied. Pretty sure we’ll be releasing more details through our channels real soon.

Thanks for the quick reply. Sounds like a very welcome change to the defiant mechanic.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Tim.6450:

Does duration of the CC affect the bar?

From what I got from the interview, yes, it does.

Based on the interview each skill in the game will be individually tweaked for how much is effects the bar, most likely based on duration/type of effect.

This is nice,,, control is now an important role in PvE!!!

My fear : once the players know this “trick” about defiance, they’ll just rolfstomp the boss.

I hope the wyvern will still take flight even after we’ve stunned it and still bombard us. CC the wyvern should make things faster but not easier.

edit: grammar and spelling (don’t post when you’re going to sleep)

VodCom.6924:

My fear : once the players know this “trick” about defiance, they’ll just rolfstomp the boss.

I hope the wyvern will still take flight even after we’ve stunned it and still bombard us. CC the wyvern should make things faster but not easier.

edit: grammar and spelling (don’t post when you’re going to sleep)

There is no trick to it other than to time your Control effects and use it in the appropriate time. And your fear seems stupid since it is natural for players to get better a playing a game. So just like Tequalt players will be able to handle the new system in time but at the very least this new system makes control useful in PvE.

Do I understand this clear? If I want to fear a boss (e.g. to reposition him) I am not able to do it since his reaction is predetermined and always the same? That’s quite awful and restricting.

silvermember.8941:

VodCom.6924:

My fear : once the players know this “trick” about defiance, they’ll just rolfstomp the boss.

I hope the wyvern will still take flight even after we’ve stunned it and still bombard us. CC the wyvern should make things faster but not easier.

edit: grammar and spelling (don’t post when you’re going to sleep)

There is no trick to it other than to time your Control effects and use it in the appropriate time. And your fear seems stupid since it is natural for players to get better a playing a game. So just like Tequalt players will be able to handle the new system in time but at the very least this new system makes control useful in PvE.

Hey man relax, I’m not saying that the change in defiance is bad.

I’m just hoping it’s not the only element in the wyvern encounter and that a successful CC won’t allow us to skip other interesting mechanics of the fight. Tequatl is now mastered by the majority of the playerbase, that does not mean he’s boring and a simple zergfest. I just hope that the wyvern will still stay interesting even 6 months after.

silvermember.8941:

VodCom.6924:

My fear : once the players know this “trick” about defiance, they’ll just rolfstomp the boss.

I hope the wyvern will still take flight even after we’ve stunned it and still bombard us. CC the wyvern should make things faster but not easier.

edit: grammar and spelling (don’t post when you’re going to sleep)

There is no trick to it other than to time your Control effects and use it in the appropriate time. And your fear seems stupid since it is natural for players to get better a playing a game. So just like Tequalt players will be able to handle the new system in time but at the very least this new system makes control useful in PvE.

Its not just about making control useful. Its about making encounters difficult.

It shouldnt be easy mode if we CC the boss. We should still have to be aware while fighting the boss, not waiting for it to start casting a attack and we all CC then GG. There shouldnt be a way to make a fight easy mode, like stacking in a corner, but there should be ways to make it easier/faster.

Based on what (little) information we have, that’s still useless in the current GW2.

The issue isn’t that we can’t interrupt the bosses. It’s that there’s no point in doing so. All bosses have slow attacks that can be dodged quite nicely. Why take CC skills and reduce your own DPS if you can just take more damage skills and dodge the boss’ big attack, instead of interrupting it?

Notice that the thing with the Wyvern is not that it has a strong, single attack – rather, it has been built so interrupting it also makes it more vulnerable to damage, which is something CC doesn’t do to any other boss in the game. In the end, it’s still about DPSing the boss faster, with CC helping in doing so, instead of interrupting a boss to really prevent it from doing something.

The current bosses in the game could be adapted so there’s actually a point in interrupting them… But let’s be real, ArenaNet is never going to rework so much of the original game.

Test.8734:

Based on what (little) information we have, that’s still useless in the current GW2.

The issue isn’t that we can’t interrupt the bosses. It’s that there’s no point in doing so. All bosses have slow attacks that can be dodged quite nicely. Why take CC skills and reduce your own DPS if you can just take more damage skills and dodge the boss’ big attack, instead of interrupting it?

Notice that the thing with the Wyvern is not that it has a strong, single attack – rather, it has been built so interrupting it also makes it more vulnerable to damage, which is something CC doesn’t do to any other boss in the game. In the end, it’s still about DPSing the boss faster, with CC helping in doing so, instead of interrupting a boss to really prevent it from doing something.

The current bosses in the game could be adapted so there’s actually a point in interrupting them… But let’s be real, ArenaNet is never going to rework so much of the original game.

From what I understood, and I might be wrong, if you interrupt the wyvern’s flight, you are not merely interrupting a single attack. You are interrupting an entire raid sequence while he is in the air, which I assume it means that you are preventing a massive amount of red circles and a stance that would make him incredible hard to target with melee weapons. A traditional, melee zerker party would probably get toasted while dealing little to no damage input in that scenario.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Test.8734:

Based on what (little) information we have, that’s still useless in the current GW2.

The issue isn’t that we can’t interrupt the bosses. It’s that there’s no point in doing so. All bosses have slow attacks that can be dodged quite nicely. Why take CC skills and reduce your own DPS if you can just take more damage skills and dodge the boss’ big attack, instead of interrupting it?

Notice that the thing with the Wyvern is not that it has a strong, single attack – rather, it has been built so interrupting it also makes it more vulnerable to damage, which is something CC doesn’t do to any other boss in the game. In the end, it’s still about DPSing the boss faster, with CC helping in doing so, instead of interrupting a boss to really prevent it from doing something.

The current bosses in the game could be adapted so there’s actually a point in interrupting them… But let’s be real, ArenaNet is never going to rework so much of the original game.

From what I understood, and I might be wrong, if you interrupt the wyvern’s flight, you are not merely interrupting a single attack. You are interrupting an entire raid sequence while he is in the air, which I assume it means that you are preventing a massive amount of red circles and a stance that would make him incredible hard to target with melee weapons. A traditional, melee zerker party would probably get toasted while dealing little to no damage input in that scenario.

Exactly. The extra damage is a bonus. The actual reason you are CCing the wyvern is to prevent it from igniting half the battlefield while you can’t reach it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Test.8734:

Based on what (little) information we have, that’s still useless in the current GW2.

The issue isn’t that we can’t interrupt the bosses. It’s that there’s no point in doing so. All bosses have slow attacks that can be dodged quite nicely. Why take CC skills and reduce your own DPS if you can just take more damage skills and dodge the boss’ big attack, instead of interrupting it?

Notice that the thing with the Wyvern is not that it has a strong, single attack – rather, it has been built so interrupting it also makes it more vulnerable to damage, which is something CC doesn’t do to any other boss in the game. In the end, it’s still about DPSing the boss faster, with CC helping in doing so, instead of interrupting a boss to really prevent it from doing something.

The current bosses in the game could be adapted so there’s actually a point in interrupting them… But let’s be real, ArenaNet is never going to rework so much of the original game.

From what I understood, and I might be wrong, if you interrupt the wyvern’s flight, you are not merely interrupting a single attack. You are interrupting an entire raid sequence while he is in the air, which I assume it means that you are preventing a massive amount of red circles and a stance that would make him incredible hard to target with melee weapons. A traditional, melee zerker party would probably get toasted while dealing little to no damage input in that scenario.

Exactly. The extra damage is a bonus. The actual reason you are CCing the wyvern is to prevent it from igniting half the battlefield while you can’t reach it.

However, I’m worried if a decent group can simply manage to avoid 100% of those epic/ dangerous gameplay scenarios. I hope there’s some additional, secondary mechanics that attempt to distract players and increase margin of error, so that timing CC doesn’t becomes as trivial as spamming it on target calling every single time.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Test.8734:

Based on what (little) information we have, that’s still useless in the current GW2.

The issue isn’t that we can’t interrupt the bosses. It’s that there’s no point in doing so. All bosses have slow attacks that can be dodged quite nicely. Why take CC skills and reduce your own DPS if you can just take more damage skills and dodge the boss’ big attack, instead of interrupting it?

Notice that the thing with the Wyvern is not that it has a strong, single attack – rather, it has been built so interrupting it also makes it more vulnerable to damage, which is something CC doesn’t do to any other boss in the game. In the end, it’s still about DPSing the boss faster, with CC helping in doing so, instead of interrupting a boss to really prevent it from doing something.

The current bosses in the game could be adapted so there’s actually a point in interrupting them… But let’s be real, ArenaNet is never going to rework so much of the original game.

From what I understood, and I might be wrong, if you interrupt the wyvern’s flight, you are not merely interrupting a single attack. You are interrupting an entire raid sequence while he is in the air, which I assume it means that you are preventing a massive amount of red circles and a stance that would make him incredible hard to target with melee weapons. A traditional, melee zerker party would probably get toasted while dealing little to no damage input in that scenario.

Exactly. The extra damage is a bonus. The actual reason you are CCing the wyvern is to prevent it from igniting half the battlefield while you can’t reach it.

However, I’m worried if a decent group can simply manage to avoid 100% of those epic/ dangerous gameplay scenarios. I hope there’s some additional, secondary mechanics that attempt to distract players and increase margin of error, so that timing CC doesn’t becomes as trivial as spamming it on target calling every single time.

Like the mass knockbacks from the wing gusts? Or the fire fields it creates when on the ground?

DiogoSilva.7089:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Test.8734:

Based on what (little) information we have, that’s still useless in the current GW2.

The issue isn’t that we can’t interrupt the bosses. It’s that there’s no point in doing so. All bosses have slow attacks that can be dodged quite nicely. Why take CC skills and reduce your own DPS if you can just take more damage skills and dodge the boss’ big attack, instead of interrupting it?

Notice that the thing with the Wyvern is not that it has a strong, single attack – rather, it has been built so interrupting it also makes it more vulnerable to damage, which is something CC doesn’t do to any other boss in the game. In the end, it’s still about DPSing the boss faster, with CC helping in doing so, instead of interrupting a boss to really prevent it from doing something.

The current bosses in the game could be adapted so there’s actually a point in interrupting them… But let’s be real, ArenaNet is never going to rework so much of the original game.

From what I understood, and I might be wrong, if you interrupt the wyvern’s flight, you are not merely interrupting a single attack. You are interrupting an entire raid sequence while he is in the air, which I assume it means that you are preventing a massive amount of red circles and a stance that would make him incredible hard to target with melee weapons. A traditional, melee zerker party would probably get toasted while dealing little to no damage input in that scenario.

Exactly. The extra damage is a bonus. The actual reason you are CCing the wyvern is to prevent it from igniting half the battlefield while you can’t reach it.

However, I’m worried if a decent group can simply manage to avoid 100% of those epic/ dangerous gameplay scenarios. I hope there’s some additional, secondary mechanics that attempt to distract players and increase margin of error, so that timing CC doesn’t becomes as trivial as spamming it on target calling every single time.

All of these are very good comments. I am really digging that they are finally bringing control into pve. All valid points and concerns in the above posts. I really like the direction they are moving with control though.