Guild Wars 2

I wanted to send ColinJohanson.2394 a message after hearing what I think is a contradiction in messaging coming from the developement team. On the one hand, Colin likes to remind everyone that Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have a gear grind, that (after Ascended armor that is) there are no plans to raise the level cap, or create new tiers of gear. However, at almost the same time, the development team is smugly promising that the so-called Zerker meta in PvE won’t cut it in the new content and will be unsuitable. Look, we players didn’t make stupid AI and encounters that are optimized by gear with these stats. So isn’t this just a veiled gear grind, since all my Ascended Berserker’s / Assassin’s gear will be obsolete?

you shouldn’t have zerker gear from beginning.

if you decided to abuse a system you have to pay for it later. this is how life works

1. Zerker gear won’t be obsolete. Chances are raids will still need dps roles.

2. Nothing so far suggests that you can’t run 100% zerk for everything else HoT related aside from raids.

3. If you have ascended gear, you can cheaply change stats through the mystic forge. If you don’t, then it’s not that costly anyway to get another set of exotics.

Kirschsahne.2081:

you shouldn’t have zerker gear from beginning.

if you decided to abuse a system you have to pay for it later. this is how life works

Seriously, what are you even talking about? Like are you trolling? They chose an armor stat and now they are abusing the game? You cannot be serious.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge#Ascended_equipment_stat_change

This is basically why they introduced this recipe. You can change stats for very little investment.

no, its not a grind now to get max stats so even if you want to change them it wont be a grind to do so

ZudetGambeous.9573:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge#Ascended_equipment_stat_change

This is basically why they introduced this recipe. You can change stats for very little investment.

Nothing little about it. “All upgrade components slotted in the equipment will be destroyed in the process.”

Cheby Shev.4671:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge#Ascended_equipment_stat_change

This is basically why they introduced this recipe. You can change stats for very little investment.

Nothing little about it. “All upgrade components slotted in the equipment will be destroyed in the process.”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upgrade_Extractor

$20 and problem solved!

If changing something becomes necessary, start with the trinkets instead. They are far easier to obtain and have a larger impact on overall stats than armor, anyway.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Cheby Shev.4671:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge#Ascended_equipment_stat_change

This is basically why they introduced this recipe. You can change stats for very little investment.

Nothing little about it. “All upgrade components slotted in the equipment will be destroyed in the process.”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upgrade_Extractor

$20 and problem solved!

You are making my point for me, $20 for 6 pc. of armor plus about 8 Ascended weapons is $280!!

Cheby Shev.4671:

I wanted to send ColinJohanson.2394 a message after hearing what I think is a contradiction in messaging coming from the developement team. On the one hand, Colin likes to remind everyone that Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have a gear grind, that (after Ascended armor that is) there are no plans to raise the level cap, or create new tiers of gear. However, at almost the same time, the development team is smugly promising that the so-called Zerker meta in PvE won’t cut it in the new content and will be unsuitable. Look, we players didn’t make stupid AI and encounters that are optimized by gear with these stats. So isn’t this just a veiled gear grind, since all my Ascended Berserker’s / Assassin’s gear will be obsolete?

You know you can change the stats on your Berserker gear right? Just use this Mystic Forge recipe:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge#Ascended_equipment_stat_change

So you don’t have to grind to get an entirely new armor set. All you have to do is get the runes again because they will get destroyed in this process.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Cheby Shev.4671:

I wanted to send ColinJohanson.2394 a message after hearing what I think is a contradiction in messaging coming from the developement team. On the one hand, Colin likes to remind everyone that Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have a gear grind, that (after Ascended armor that is) there are no plans to raise the level cap, or create new tiers of gear. However, at almost the same time, the development team is smugly promising that the so-called Zerker meta in PvE won’t cut it in the new content and will be unsuitable. Look, we players didn’t make stupid AI and encounters that are optimized by gear with these stats. So isn’t this just a veiled gear grind, since all my Ascended Berserker’s / Assassin’s gear will be obsolete?

You know you can change the stats on your Berserker gear right? Just use this Mystic Forge recipe:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge#Ascended_equipment_stat_change

So you don’t have to grind to get an entirely new armor set. All you have to do is get the runes again because they will get destroyed in this process.

Yes, thanks. We’ve been arguing about whether this recipe is expensive or not.

It’s really not a grind. What Anet said, is that you will never have to get higher tiered gear to complete newer content. The gear treadmill they’re talking about is what is in WoW. New raids requiring higher tiers of gear to do more damage, soak more damage, and heal damage, I.E. holy trinity. GW2 has no holy trinity and has a gear plateau that stays the same. Even if you bring up Ascended gear, it really isn’t much of a different in anything stat wise. If you’re a min-maxer that is trying to squeeze the most out of gear, then getting ascended armor or even legendary armor in the future will be a goal.

Any gear higher than exotic will not make exotic ever be obsolete. They never promised that you won’t have to get more than one set of armor. What Anet promised, is you will never need more than exotic armor and weapons to do any content at any point. Anything else is purely cosmetic and for something to do or achieve for yourself. You have to learn to adapt, things change. GW2 won’t always be static as much as they had us believe the past 3 years, but change is good. How do you know you won’t enjoy playing the game differently outside of zerker meta? You could be surprised. Just go with the roll! If you’re concerned with the cost of a new set of armor, trinkets, and weapons. Spend 20 bucks on gems and buy the stuff you need. You will more than likely have plenty of gold to get a new set, and you will still be able to keep your zerker set for when the time arises that you can still use it.

Sorin.4310:

Kirschsahne.2081:

you shouldn’t have zerker gear from beginning.

if you decided to abuse a system you have to pay for it later. this is how life works

Seriously, what are you even talking about? Like are you trolling? They chose an armor stat and now they are abusing the game? You cannot be serious.

What do you mean by trolling…

When everyone is choosing one single stat from millions available to “skip” or “outsmart” the game how it is intended to play it’s abusing the system.
Dungeons ringing a bell???

Altair.8402:

1. Zerker gear won’t be obsolete. Chances are raids will still need dps roles.

2. Nothing so far suggests that you can’t run 100% zerk for everything else HoT related aside from raids.

3. If you have ascended gear, you can cheaply change stats through the mystic forge. If you don’t, then it’s not that costly anyway to get another set of exotics.

Exactly.

It’s (relatively) cheap and easy to update your stats. The vast majority of players with full sets of ascended gear can afford the recipe; I don’t think we can count this as “forcing us to grind” even in a non-obvious way.

Kirschsahne.2081:

Sorin.4310:

Kirschsahne.2081:

you shouldn’t have zerker gear from beginning.

if you decided to abuse a system you have to pay for it later. this is how life works

Seriously, what are you even talking about? Like are you trolling? They chose an armor stat and now they are abusing the game? You cannot be serious.

What do you mean by trolling…

When everyone is choosing one single stat from millions available to “skip” or “outsmart” the game how it is intended to play it’s abusing the system.
Dungeons ringing a bell???

So just becouse they know how to utilise their characters skills and dodges to the extreme so they dont need passive defence, they are abusing the system?
I want what ever cool aid you been drinking to paty with when I get bored.

Sad to say your conviction is wrong mate.

Cheby Shev.4671:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Cheby Shev.4671:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge#Ascended_equipment_stat_change

This is basically why they introduced this recipe. You can change stats for very little investment.

Nothing little about it. “All upgrade components slotted in the equipment will be destroyed in the process.”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upgrade_Extractor

$20 and problem solved!

You are making my point for me, $20 for 6 pc. of armor plus about 8 Ascended weapons is $280!!

No one made your point and I’m not seeing a lot of people agreeing with it.

Yes, ascended gear is grindy but you don’t need more than it, and it’s easily and relatively cheaply convertible.

You don’t need legendary armor, even if it would be nice to have. That’s the line Anet is going for, and they seem to have succeeded.

Altair.8402:

1. Zerker gear won’t be obsolete. Chances are raids will still need dps roles.

2. Nothing so far suggests that you can’t run 100% zerk for everything else HoT related aside from raids.

And both of these are the main problem with having healers/tanks, especially in this game. Let’s say we have 10 players who want to play together and get ready for raids. They will make their zerker gear because as you say (and I agree) non-raid content will be doable in full Berserker (or at least full DPS gear) so it would make sense to get their DPS gear to finish non-raid content faster. Not to mention older game content which won’t change, so dps gear will be the best there too.

After a while, that group of 10 will want to the raid. But 2 of them will need to switch to healing gear, another 2 will need to change to tanking gear (made up numbers) and the rest (6) will stay DPS gear. How do we choose who will change? It’s not a very easy option at all, and Ascended is very expensive too.

Then we have all those who suggest changing gear using the mystic forge. Unless I’m mistaken, once you change your stats it’s permanent. So while I can change my dps gear to healing gear to heal in a raid, what happens if I want to go back and play some old dungeons, do some open world content or anything non-raid related? I’d have to change my stats again to be optimal! And then you will need to find your runes and sigils again, and then change back when it’s next time to do raids. See the problem?

Unless you plan on doing raids and only raids with a specific character, stat swap isn’t an option.

or you can just wear exotic armor. A single cleric armor is less than 1 gold each in the TP.

You will most likely not notice any difference anyway.

It’s not a gear grind. You can still use zerkers, in fact, I guarantee that there will still be zerker only elitist recruiting for raids. It’s just that you could ALSO use defensive gear to make it easier for you. I don’t think I’ve read any articles or heard quotes from any Anet reps saying the raids/contents will REQUIRE other defensive stat gears, just that it would be a good idea to do so. While I understand your unease about that fact, please don’t go crying about it and blow it out of proportion… grow up.

Kirschsahne.2081:

Sorin.4310:

Kirschsahne.2081:

you shouldn’t have zerker gear from beginning.

if you decided to abuse a system you have to pay for it later. this is how life works

Seriously, what are you even talking about? Like are you trolling? They chose an armor stat and now they are abusing the game? You cannot be serious.

What do you mean by trolling…

When everyone is choosing one single stat from millions available to “skip” or “outsmart” the game how it is intended to play it’s abusing the system.
Dungeons ringing a bell???

there are videos of people afk auto attacking bosses like lupicus to death in cleric gear with things like heal signet or signet of restoration. it takes hours. how is that more skillful than learning a boss’ animations to know when to dodge/block? but by all means continue to get bent out of shape because some people are able to play the game better and more efficiently than others.

you are generalizing the term gear grind too much.

fractal agony is gear grind, since you need to grind agony resistance to not die to agony in higher tier fractals. in effect, fractals are gear gated by grinding fractals.

introducing new content where glass cannon builds have it tough isn’t forcing grind, it’s just changing the meta. you’ll be fine with exotics if it comes to that.

in any case, you don’t need to alter all your armor to change your build. you can equip 1 or 2 gear pieces with completely defensive stats (like +tough +vitality) to reduce your damage and increase your survivability a little.

or easiest of all just change one of your traits to a defensive one

there are videos of people afk auto attacking bosses like lupicus to death in cleric gear with things like heal signet or signet of restoration. it takes hours. how is that more skillful than learning a boss’ animations to know when to dodge/block? but by all means continue to get bent out of shape because some people are able to play the game better and more efficiently than others.

since speed in clearing content directly increases rewards, balancing dps vs other roles has always been a struggle in MMORPGs.

the struggle in gw2 is that several core mechanics (namely dodging) contribute to make glass cannons way more survivable than in many other games, and a glass cannon who knows the content will be more survivable than a tank build who doesn’t.

there’s also a lot of combat where dps straight up equals survivability, since enemies come at a fixed rate and and killing them asap means they don’t get to do anything. very notable in dungeons.

The new meta might not even use the runes your current build does. Think about it as buying new tires… Your first set of tires were a costly investment that got you where you needed to be, but eventually wore out. Now that you have to buy new tires, it might be expensive but you will be rolling around in no time and you might enjoy the ride more and maybe even handle your character better going down a different road.

Zerger gear is sign of noob anyways.

Junkpile.7439:

Zerger gear is sign of noob anyways.

Well not the ones who know their class and can use it optimaly.

The ones who just copy metabattle then blame the rest of the party when they go down and dead since boss survive longer then 10 seconds in a all welcome group however are what you say tho.

There will still be a place for glass gear in the raid meta. Enrage timers guarantee that at least some of the raid will need to be glass (Berserker, Rampager or Sinister) to beat those timers. If a mix of Cleric/Dire/Soldier/Nomad gear can beat the timer, then the content will not be challenging enough.

The gear issue I’m concerned about is the one where you need to take multiple sets with you into the raid to switch out roles from encounter to encounter. At 13-16 pieces per gear set, that will be a pain in the kitten.

Cheby Shev.4671:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Cheby Shev.4671:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge#Ascended_equipment_stat_change

This is basically why they introduced this recipe. You can change stats for very little investment.

Nothing little about it. “All upgrade components slotted in the equipment will be destroyed in the process.”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upgrade_Extractor

$20 and problem solved!

You are making my point for me, $20 for 6 pc. of armor plus about 8 Ascended weapons is $280!!

A little too well, it would seem. Maybe actually research things before you go and argue about them, eh? Each Extractor is 250 gems, or ~3 dollars. Orrrr, you could just go through the same process you did the first time to get your obligatory runes of strength and sigils of blooslust, because that’s obviously the only thing you could possibly run because BUILD VARIETY.

Testudo.4620:

Kirschsahne.2081:

Sorin.4310:

Kirschsahne.2081:

you shouldn’t have zerker gear from beginning.

if you decided to abuse a system you have to pay for it later. this is how life works

Seriously, what are you even talking about? Like are you trolling? They chose an armor stat and now they are abusing the game? You cannot be serious.

What do you mean by trolling…

When everyone is choosing one single stat from millions available to “skip” or “outsmart” the game how it is intended to play it’s abusing the system.
Dungeons ringing a bell???

there are videos of people afk auto attacking bosses like lupicus to death in cleric gear with things like heal signet or signet of restoration. it takes hours. how is that more skillful than learning a boss’ animations to know when to dodge/block? but by all means continue to get bent out of shape because some people are able to play the game better and more efficiently than others.

That is basically admiting that Zerk meta is not working as intended. Just because Cleric armor allows you to do the same in a much longer time does not validate the Berserker approach, it just makes it more efficient. Pretty sure that soloing Lupi in general is not! working as intended, but Anet turns a blind eye on it because they have not much left to offer for the hardcore gang elsewise. Maybe this will stop with the introduction of raids, but I doubt it-.

OP, it´s exactly right when someone said that you rode the zerker horse as long as it was healthy and the fastest horse in town, and now it is foaming at the mouth and you are not sure if it staggers and falls and you probably foam too at the thought that you have to buy a new horse with saddlebags and saddle etc etc…

But let people keep their meta when they have at least the manners to shut up when they join casual, non zerk groups, nobody likes a smarty pants know it all.

Kirschsahne.2081:

you shouldn’t have zerker gear from beginning.

if you decided to abuse a system you have to pay for it later. this is how life works

You genuinely think running a berserker build is an “abuse” of the system?

Do you actually think that dedicated players finding the most efficient way to play their game is abusing the games system?

Gods…

….exploits are usually the most efficient way to play a game. if they wern’t more efficient, they wouldn’t be exploits… they’d just be bugs.

not that zerker errything is an exploit.

Cheby Shev.4671:

I wanted to send ColinJohanson.2394 a message after hearing what I think is a contradiction in messaging coming from the developement team. On the one hand, Colin likes to remind everyone that Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have a gear grind, that (after Ascended armor that is) there are no plans to raise the level cap, or create new tiers of gear. However, at almost the same time, the development team is smugly promising that the so-called Zerker meta in PvE won’t cut it in the new content and will be unsuitable. Look, we players didn’t make stupid AI and encounters that are optimized by gear with these stats. So isn’t this just a veiled gear grind, since all my Ascended Berserker’s / Assassin’s gear will be obsolete?

He never said they will be obsolete.

wherever the meta settles, stricter or not, it’s going to be more in favor of diverse builds than the zerk meta. i mean, that’s the whole point. there’ll be a place for tougher builds, maybe even bunkers.

Shoe.5821:

wherever the meta settles, stricter or not, it’s going to be more in favor of diverse builds than the zerk meta. i mean, that’s the whole point. there’ll be a place for tougher builds, maybe even bunkers.

I don’t think you understand how it’s going to work entirely.

The zerk meta was an efficency meta based on time.
The new meta will be a strict meta based on time, dps, hps, threat management.

Under the zerk meta, you could clear content with WHATEVER BUILD YOU WANTED, and the only thing that would change would be time spent doing the content. Players could freely play how they wanted, even by simulating a hard trinity team with a soliders guard and a clerics ele and 3 different types of dps. They could clear content that way, and the only thing that would change would be time.

With the need for dedicated healers and possibly tanks, what controls the meta will be more than time. Healing efficiency will matter now. Damage efficiency will matter a lot more now than it ever did under the zerk meta, because more damage dealt = less need for strenuous healing.

This isn’t the saving grace for players who couldn’t or wouldn’t participate in the previous meta. This will be harder for them. There will be more elitism. There will be stricter requirements in party finder.

There might not even be pug groups for this content, because the introduction of new and required roles warrants the need for additional features like Inspect and Gear locking.

That’s why I believe the ‘new meta’ as it’s looking now, which is similar to the traditional MMORPG raid meta, will be even stricter.
It’ll wear the guise of build freedom, but it will be so much stricter. And you guys created it.

Torolan.5816:

Canakun.8031:

JVJD.4912:

Canakun.8031:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

The lengths to which ZerkAss players will go to ensure that no amount of defense/support/control will ever be required, and that they can continue to smash their face on the Ice Bow 4 button to clear any/all content…

Man up, Jimmy. Yes, you may need to change your gear. That’s not a grind – that’s a response to shifting metagames, which is normal in all MMOs. Either find a way to make your ZerkAss Icebowmentalist still work, or change around your Ascended stats in the Toilet. The rest of us, who’ve been fans of more balanced builds for a while now, will enjoy having a little bit of time to shine before you folks figure out how to skip three quarters of an encounter and cheese the final boss again.

The fact that you don’t realize the only reason we play zerk gear is because we’re the ones who are able to respond to a shifting metagame is really quite bizarre.

When we find the new meta, and we play it without moaning, and you’re still on the forums complaining that you got kicked because the new meta is even stricter than the zerk meta, please remember what you just said.

Linking what gear you are wear is pointless, i have zerker, soldier and sinister gear in my bags that all look the same. how could you tell and be sure what ppl are wearing??
I have run sinsiter /soldier gear in zerk only groups succeeded and nobody said anything because i linked my zerk gear XD, now this will be even worse with legendary gear since it will not link the stats in them

So even if you have a meta described there is no way of saying a person is playing as a meta XD

That’s why inspection tools + gear/stat locking are going to be required.
Otherwise there probably won’t be many pug groups going.

Also that was a pretty kitten thing to do tricking people with your stats.

Not that I support that people join groups who want someone else, but who is to be pittied more?
The guy that does join the party and it still goes well, or the one that needs a tool for a gear check to ensure that he is surounded by only people where he thinks their gear is ok?
Pretty obvious for me, but I am also sure that your answer would be different from mine.

The problem that ANET has is with berserker gear is that people use it because it’s the fastest way to complete content. The only way ANET can get people to stop using it is to make content that is impossible to complete with it.

If there were stat combinations that were impossible to complete content with, and you joined a PUG with a player using that stat combination, would you want to know about it before the run ?
Or would you prefer to attempt a run that can not possibly succeed ?

Most people would want to know before the run so, because that means they have more time to run the content with a group that can succeed.

So I see four ways forwards for ANET:
– Berserkers remains the most effective gear. Nothing much changes.
– ANET changes numbers so that some other gear with 3 damage stats becomes more effective than berserkers. The only change is that instead of people talking about bersekers, people talk about the other gear.
– People need to take a defensive stat on their gear. A number of people who aren’t paying attention will keep using their berserker gear and trying to take it into content that they can’t complete. Causing other people to want to identify them quickly, leading to them demanding gear checking options. Even people who don’t care what you’re running now.
– ANET makes gear with three DPS stats cease to exist. Forcing everyone currently using it to pick a different stat combination.

the meta for the raids might end up totally different from the meta for the rest of the game. however, we can be pretty sure that unless anet totally screwed the pooch there’s going to be more in it than damage builds.

zerker meta:
damage builds: ok
not damage builds: not ok

not zerker meta:
damage builds: ok
not damage builds: have a place

the point is that not-damage builds will have a place in the meta. this is an improvement for people who prefer not-damage builds, regardless of how much elitism will be involved in raids.

we’re all aware that the zerker meta was about clearance time, although tbh i think thats way overstated by people. part of the zerker meta for fractals/dungeons is various stacking tricks and places to stand that permit zerker builds to breeze through fights that would otherwise be tougher for them.

– People need to take a defensive stat on their gear.

i dont think this is possible. taking vitality or toughness in place of a damage stat will make you, what, 30% tougher at most? that’s easily within the margin of error for a fight. don’t screw up a dodge and you won’t need vitality. or just don’t get that close.

IMO the real problem is that damage is probably too important. fights where damage is less important would help. i.e. the part in ascalonian catacombs where a bunch of graveling mounds spawn when you’re collecting soul essence. damage makes that a breeze, you splatter all the gravelings/mounds before they can build up #s. That sort of fight should have been more dependent on control and survivability than damage.

Shoe.5821:

the meta for the raids might end up totally different from the meta for the rest of the game. however, we can be pretty sure that unless anet totally screwed the pooch there’s going to be more in it than damage builds.

This is something that always bothered me in any discussions over the meta.

How is “Looking for Berserker 1/10” is worse than: “Looking for 6 Berserker, 2 Sentinel, 2 Cleric”? In the first case everyone can join the group if their gear is fine, in the second case not only you need the proper gear, but you need to “compete” for slots too, or wait for some slots to fill.

What the anti-zerker people can’t see is that the “new meta” for raids might be way more restrictive than the current one. Just because different gear sets will be viable in end-game doesn’t mean it will be “better”.

available slots for non-zerker build currently: 0 (see also: Charity)
available slots for non-zerker build in future meta: Some!

‘any’ is better than ‘none’ no matter how elitist or restrictive it is

Sorin.4310:

Kirschsahne.2081:

you shouldn’t have zerker gear from beginning.

if you decided to abuse a system you have to pay for it later. this is how life works

Seriously, what are you even talking about? Like are you trolling? They chose an armor stat and now they are abusing the game? You cannot be serious.

This is a troll account – nobody in their right mind can hold all the opinions this guy has put out over the last 2-3 days – and his account is less than a week old – check his post history.

Also call him out as a troll in every thread – that’ll ruin his fun.

Shoe.5821:

available slots for non-zerker build currently: 0 (see also: Charity)
available slots for non-zerker build in future meta: Some!

‘any’ is better than ‘none’ no matter how elitist or restrictive it is

So you are willing to take ages to form groups waiting for those roles to fill and compete with your fellow team-mates for some roles in order to make non-zerker builds more “viable” in the future meta.

And please don’t call them “builds”. There is no such thing as a zerker “build”, zerker is a gear stat combination and it has very little to do with your build.

Shoe.5821:

wherever the meta settles, stricter or not, it’s going to be more in favor of diverse builds than the zerk meta. i mean, that’s the whole point. there’ll be a place for tougher builds, maybe even bunkers.

Would it really lead to more diversity ?

Once people figure out the optimal* number of players in each role, I doubt you will see much, if any, variation from that. So no increased diversity there.

As for diversity in the builds a player can run, that only works if all the builds can use the same gear. If the builds use different gear then diversity will be discouraged by the cost of acquiring multiple sets of gear, or the cost of having inventory slots taken up by the gear being unavailable to hold loot acquired during the run. So even if a class can fill multiple roles, if those roles require different gear stats, there will be players who only ever get the gear to

I’m wondering if having the stat combination decided by the gear is part of the problem. Remember how GW2 launched with there being a cost to change how your trait points were assigned. A cost which ANET later removed. Might it be better if we could change the gear stat combination on a piece of gear any time we are out of combat ?

The strength of the stats would be decided for the rarity. So ascended gear is still better to have. But we would be able to completely switch from a glass-cannon build to a bunker as desired. ANET would even be able to design content where they expect players to switch builds in the middle, because they would have removed every obstacle that might prevent build switching.

*Optimal meaning whatever completes it fastest.

it’s true that largely not giving a kitten about comp as long as everyone has damage bleeding from their eyes makes it easier to group up, but i am not sure this is entirely a good thing.

Regardless.

The raids are intentionally built to require careful thought on group composition. It is deliberate, it was always going to be this way, there was always going to be waiting to make a proper group.

Would it really lead to more diversity ?
Once people figure out the optimal* number of players in each role, I doubt you will see much, if any, variation from that. So no increased diversity there.

pretty much by definition it will be increased diversity:

All Damage Builds Team

versus

Mixed Builds Team

maddoctor.2738:

How is “Looking for Berserker 1/10” is worse than: “Looking for 6 Berserker, 2 Sentinel, 2 Cleric”? In the first case everyone can join the group if their gear is fine, in the second case not only you need the proper gear, but you need to “compete” for slots too, or wait for some slots to fill.

Remember GW1 where the last slot filled in a party was usually the monks ?

That’s what happens when there are specific roles to fill. You have to wait around to find a player who is willing to play that role.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

The problem that ANET has is with berserker gear is that people use it because it’s the fastest way to complete content. The only way ANET can get people to stop using it is to make content that is impossible to complete with it.

If there were stat combinations that were impossible to complete content with, and you joined a PUG with a player using that stat combination, would you want to know about it before the run ?
Or would you prefer to attempt a run that can not possibly succeed ?

Most people would want to know before the run so, because that means they have more time to run the content with a group that can succeed.

So I see four ways forwards for ANET:
– Berserkers remains the most effective gear. Nothing much changes.
– ANET changes numbers so that some other gear with 3 damage stats becomes more effective than berserkers. The only change is that instead of people talking about bersekers, people talk about the other gear.
– People need to take a defensive stat on their gear. A number of people who aren’t paying attention will keep using their berserker gear and trying to take it into content that they can’t complete. Causing other people to want to identify them quickly, leading to them demanding gear checking options. Even people who don’t care what you’re running now.
– ANET makes gear with three DPS stats cease to exist. Forcing everyone currently using it to pick a different stat combination.

Debatable. I would anytime enter a group of 4 expert zerkers and be sure that the content is done very fast, but give me 4 so so zerkers and watch me suffer through relatively easy content with my soldier guard kneeling down over and over again to scratch people from the floor.
Zerker gear should be expert gear, not something you slap on every guy that stepped in the game 2 weeks ago. But no, people stuff their new guild members in these armors and hope that they will learn and pick up so fast that they don´t feel overly annoyed by them. What this means with pugs probably does not need an explanation.

Is there any content right now that is not manageable with a ranger or a necro in group, the red headed step children of group content? No. People just don´t like these classes because they have opinions that are set in stone, or because some Youtube min-max moron said so and they only accept the best instead of just viable or second best. Necro and Ranger = useless, so no place for them. People prove every day that this is complete BS, but still the opinion is held.
You may be right with raids, I can´t answer that without trying the GW2 version of it and someone explaining it to my in detail why class X can´t do the same as class Y even if their skills are similar.

If the raid boss is invulnerable(like Tequatl once) or at least highly resistant against crit damage, we will probably see berserk getting rarer as standard gear because I guess that people will rather take the slower damage against standard mobs than attack the raid boss with inapropriate gear.

Shoe.5821:

it’s true that largely not giving a kitten about comp as long as everyone has damage bleeding from their eyes makes it easier to group up, but i am not sure this is entirely a good thing.

Regardless.

The raids are intentionally built to require careful thought on group composition. It is deliberate, it was always going to be this way, there was always going to be waiting to make a proper group.

Would it really lead to more diversity ?
Once people figure out the optimal* number of players in each role, I doubt you will see much, if any, variation from that. So no increased diversity there.

pretty much by definition it will be increased diversity:

All Damage Builds Team

versus

Mixed Builds Team

It will be teams wanting an exact number of healers and an exact number of damage builds. Every team will want that optimal number.

Changing the numbers from 5 DPS, 0 healers to 3 DPS, 2 healers doesn’t change the diversity.

i think you have a weird definition of diversity.

builds other than dps being desirable is the entire point.

Shoe.5821:

available slots for non-zerker build currently: 0 (see also: Charity)
available slots for non-zerker build in future meta: Some!

‘any’ is better than ‘none’ no matter how elitist or restrictive it is

I just ran an entire dungeon tour in PVT because I made my own darn party.
It’s honestly not a difficult concept.

Every day I’m running sinister. Ranger sinister. Guard sinister. Engi sinister. None of that is zerk. What are you talking about. Honestly.
Do you even play dungeons? Have you looked at LFG ONCE and see a request for zerk and built your entire opinion up from that?

At least formulate a good argument.

The meta is the best way to do things. It’s people evaluating the available options and choosing the best one…but the best option never has and never will be mandatory for completing dungeons.

Damage builds are the best possible choices for dungeons because other builds are unnecessary. Speccing into anything other than damage makes dungeons slower, ergo it is not the optimal choice.

Do you even play dungeons? Have you looked at LFG ONCE and see a request for zerk and built your entire opinion up from that?

i do want to talk about this more specifically. It’s not that people in LFG ask for zerk. It’s that they don’t want people who aren’t zerk, because the nonzerkers slow them down.

i mean, lets talk Sinister. Sinister’s cool. But it’s condition damage. Before the condition rework it was pretty much dogkitten in dungeons. And world bosses. And a lot of places really.

Condition builds can be pretty competitive damage-wise these days but they didn’t use to be at all. That’s zerker meta, that’s the build you want to play being closed off because the enemies and the encounters didn’t support them at all.

Shoe.5821:

The meta is the best way to do things. It’s people evaluating the available options and choosing the best one…but the best option never has and never will be mandatory for completing dungeons.

Damage builds are the best possible choices for dungeons because other builds are unnecessary. Speccing into anything other than damage makes dungeons slower, ergo it is not the optimal choice.

y…yes…

that’s OUR point.

Why shouldn’t encounters be designed so that support or control or tanky builds are desirable? They already are in pvp and wvw.

That’s what Anet is attempting. That’s what breaks the zerker meta.

Shoe.5821:

Why shouldn’t encounters be designed so that support or control or tanky builds are desirable? They already are in pvp and wvw.

That’s what Anet is attempting. That’s what breaks the zerker meta.

Nobody is saying it shouldn’t. Oh my God. Nobody is demanding that only one stat type is worth using and all the others aren’t.

What we’re trying, and clearly failing, to do is convince you that the new meta, at least what it looks like now, isn’t going to fix anything for the people complaining about build or stat diversity, and it certainly isn’t going to get rid of elitism.
We’re trying very hard to make you aware that there will always be a meta. Whether it’s 5 zerk, or 4 zerk 1 cleric, or 3 zerk 1 cleric 1 soldiers. Or if it’s 1 dragon hunter, 2 tempests, 1 chronomancer and 1 berserker, there will always be a most efficent way of doing things.

Nobody is saying there shouldn’t be stat and build diversity. At least I’m not.
But the people who have complained about the zerk meta being too restrictive are going to eventually complain that the HoT meta is too restrictive, if not more restrictive, because it’s going to have even more demands of the players.