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The focus is on new content but ...

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Posted by: Nafets.1238

Nafets.1238

Even if you are focusing on new content, Living Story, Expansion and so on there are two things that should be addressed as quickly as possible:

- Living Story 1. The recap will not do it. Also telling the players to go watch online some video with the recap will not work. I, personally, got the game to play it, not to watch a lore video I don’t know where. If I’d be a F2P player that came to this game for the story/lore, tried the game for free, played the story, then someone would tell me I’d have to go watch online some 3h recap of LS1 I’d say kitten it and move to another game, not even considering buying the expansions. After you finish the original story you suddenly wake up with 5 randoms that call you boss. Also with the expansion coming, consider making a pack with the Living Story S2 and S3 included. Having to buy the game, then finding out I have to pay more to enjoy the story looks like a total rip-off. Yeah, gold can be converted to gems, then buy LS but why do I have to farm in-game a good amount of hours to play the story? I would understand if it was items, currency, titles, skins whatever, but the story? If you tell me to buy gems I’ll say that I already paid 60$ for the game that’s Pay Once, Play It, why do I have to pay more?

- Dungeons. You want players to be good at the game? Increase the rewards in dungeons. Because dungeons are the perfect place for players to learn mechanics, how to use combo fields, skips, prestack might, swiftness, where to use reflects and so on. Having players starting with Fractals because it’s hard to find groups for dungeons might not be the best idea. When they get to T4 they have no clue how anything works there, simply because the way from first fractals to T4 is filled with players just like them, mostly clueless. Then wonder why it’s hard for them to get in raids..

(edited by Nafets.1238)

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Posted by: nottsgman.8206

nottsgman.8206

dungeons don’t need their rewards increased.

before nerf dungeon liquid gold (all paths including story paths): ~43g
now dungeon liquid gold (all paths including story paths and the 8 path bonus gold): ~42g

we also get more tokens now. you used to get 60 per path, now it’s 100, plus 150 choosable tokens every 8 paths.

70 ‘mains’ and waiting for more slots
| 61 Asura | 5 Charr | 2 Norn | 1 Human | 1 Sylvari |

(edited by nottsgman.8206)

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Posted by: Nafets.1238

Nafets.1238

dungeons don’t need their rewards increased.

before nerf dungeon liquid gold (all paths including story paths): ~43g
now dungeon liquid gold (all paths including story paths and the 8 path bonus gold): ~43g

we also get more tokens now. you used to get 60 per path, now it’s 100, plus 150 choosable tokens every 8 paths.

This is wrong. Story paths are not really meant for much replayability, most of them are long, boring and not worth the time. Also in order to get that 42g you would have to run all paths, and some players would not want to run things like AC P3 or CoF P2 as it’s not worth the time. Doing all the paths in many hours versus doing the paths that are time worthy on a daily basis. That’s what this is about. Second option was the one before the nerf.

If what you say it’s true, then the incentive to play dungeons now should be the same or even higher than before the nerf. Oh wait, it isn’t. Because nobody wants to dedicate many hours to run ALL the paths when they could have gotten the same rewards by playing SOME paths in 2 days in a way less amount of time.

The only people that benefit from dungeons right now and make even more gold than before the nerf would be the ones that have most of the dungeon recipes. But this is a small part of the playerbase and even for them is harder as it’s not easy to find a group. The amount of tokens was increased and can be easily converted with the recipes into large amounts of gold. But for the most players getting all the tokens and convert to rares to salvage for ectos or exotics for insignias is still not getting close to the gold you could get pre-nerf.

(edited by Nafets.1238)

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

So, just run the favored 8 paths. Anyone that ran all paths for the 43 Gold before the nerf would run all the paths after the nerf, no? Wasn’t the ‘nerf’ to discourage just running the one (or two) easy speed-run paths, and to encourage players to run the other paths therefore spreading out dungeon-runners to possibly include newer (to dungeons) players?

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Posted by: Nafets.1238

Nafets.1238

So, just run the favored 8 paths. Anyone that ran all paths for the 43 Gold before the nerf would run all the paths after the nerf, no? Wasn’t the ‘nerf’ to discourage just running the one (or two) easy speed-run paths, and to encourage players to run the other paths therefore spreading out dungeon-runners to possibly include newer (to dungeons) players?

Wrong. 8 paths now -> 5 gold and some more tokens. 8 paths before (if i would choose Arah) -> 20-25 gold and some less tokens. The difference (in gold) from the tokens you get now and the tokens you got before is way lower than the 15-20 gold liquid difference.

As anyone can see, the “nerf” HIGHLY encouraged players to run dungeons. Yep.

Also you don’t understand, the idea is for the veteran players to come back to dungeons to play with the new players. That’s the way new players would learn the mechanics in the game. But most aren’t, they are in raids and T4 fractals. Why? Because they are rewarding. Why aren’t they in dungeons? Because they are not rewarding. If dungeons were rewarding, the veteran players would be doing them. Can you follow?

(edited by Nafets.1238)

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Posted by: nottsgman.8206

nottsgman.8206

I guess someone should tell all those WvW players who continued playing through the years, that they’re doing it wrong. they should have stopped playing because there was no reward.

maybe veterans aren’t in dungeons because they wanted something different to the 4+ year old content that they’d gotten bored of playing? maybe the gold reward was the only thing keeping them there in the first place, and now they’ve moved on to things that both interest them more and are more rewarding.

personally, I still play dungeons. I played them before gold was even a real thing as a reward for doing it, I played them through the pointless gold buff (which didn’t motivate anyone to take newer players along), I played through the nerf, and I’ll carry on doing it, because I enjoy them.

if you don’t, that’s up to you shrugs

70 ‘mains’ and waiting for more slots
| 61 Asura | 5 Charr | 2 Norn | 1 Human | 1 Sylvari |

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Regardless, it’s unlikely the Devs will start focusing on dungeons when they’ve stated multiple times they would prefer players in Fractals as small group content.

Still, good luck.

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Posted by: Wanze.8410

Wanze.8410

If I’d be a F2P player that came to this game for the story/lore, tried the game for free, played the story, then someone would tell me I’d have to go watch online some 3h recap of LS1 I’d say kitten it and move to another game, not even considering buying the expansions. After you finish the original story you suddenly wake up with 5 randoms that call you boss.

Even if they would make season one story somehow playable, I doubt that f2p players will get access to it. So that there is a gap in the story line will only be noticable, once they bought season 2 in the gem store or purchased HoT.

Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.

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Posted by: Ashantara.8731

Ashantara.8731

- Living Story 1. The recap will not do it.

Agreed. Check out this thread, there has been a discussion going on about that very topic (the thread title might be misguiding, as the discussion took a turn).

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

dungeons don’t need their rewards increased.

before nerf dungeon liquid gold (all paths including story paths): ~43g
now dungeon liquid gold (all paths including story paths and the 8 path bonus gold): ~42g

we also get more tokens now. you used to get 60 per path, now it’s 100, plus 150 choosable tokens every 8 paths.

theres now way all the paths once with the story ones gives 42 gold and the old ones game 43 only

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Posted by: Hyper Cutter.9376

Hyper Cutter.9376

Almost everything worth salvaging from season 1 has been salvaged. The story, such as it was, was embarassingly awful and should never see the light of day again.

Turn the marionette battle and the retaking of LA into fractals, and that’s everything worthwhile from it.

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Posted by: Linken.6345

Linken.6345

So, just run the favored 8 paths. Anyone that ran all paths for the 43 Gold before the nerf would run all the paths after the nerf, no? Wasn’t the ‘nerf’ to discourage just running the one (or two) easy speed-run paths, and to encourage players to run the other paths therefore spreading out dungeon-runners to possibly include newer (to dungeons) players?

Wrong. 8 paths now -> 5 gold and some more tokens. 8 paths before (if i would choose Arah) -> 20-25 gold and some less tokens. The difference (in gold) from the tokens you get now and the tokens you got before is way lower than the 15-20 gold liquid difference.

As anyone can see, the “nerf” HIGHLY encouraged players to run dungeons. Yep.

Also you don’t understand, the idea is for the veteran players to come back to dungeons to play with the new players. That’s the way new players would learn the mechanics in the game. But most aren’t, they are in raids and T4 fractals. Why? Because they are rewarding. Why aren’t they in dungeons? Because they are not rewarding. If dungeons were rewarding, the veteran players would be doing them. Can you follow?

Your wrong mate you can rerun the same 8 paths as many times as you want for the bonus 5 gold and by that make more then before.

Edit
Maybe alot of veterans are tierd of the same dungeons they done for 4 years?

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Posted by: Linken.6345

Linken.6345

Almost everything worth salvaging from season 1 has been salvaged. The story, such as it was, was embarassingly awful and should never see the light of day again.

Turn the marionette battle and the retaking of LA into fractals, and that’s everything worthwhile from it.

Dont forget queens jubilee, dragon bash, karka invasion and the clockwork invasions mate.

What retaking it was evacuation of la.

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Posted by: PaxTheGreatOne.9472

PaxTheGreatOne.9472

Almost everything worth salvaging from season 1 has been salvaged. The story, such as it was, was embarassingly awful and should never see the light of day again.

Turn the marionette battle and the retaking of LA into fractals, and that’s everything worthwhile from it.

I tend to agree partially,

Making the present LS 1 fractals replayable in fractals in a low level special fractal sequence called “Return to Scarlet’s War”

I Rise of Scarlet

  • Introduction to Ceara (could see Dry top holo projector in scarlet’s room LS S2 E1)
  • Steam creatures in Lake of Lamentation
  • Thaumanova Fractal

II Scarlet’s armies:
a) Molten Alliance

  • Molten Furnace Fractal
  • Molten Boss Fractal
    b) Aetherblades
  • Not so Secret
  • Aetherblade Fractal
  • Mai Trin Fractal
    -Intermission-
  • Treason; The Betrayal of the Watchwork Knights
    c)Toxic Alliance
  • events are still active in Kessex Hills
  • Nightmare (toxic alliance)
  • the Watchwork Marionette (either cinematic or actual reinstation of the event. The marionette rebooted? )

III The Demise of Scarlet: Lion’s Arch under Siege!

  • Assault on LA (instance, old LA)
  • Breachmaker (instance)

And complement these with the story line (could be harvested from season 1)) with the cinematics detailing “The Rise and Fall of Scarlet Briar”
This would finish it, and this should include the fight in the Breachmaker as the destruction of old LA as well… and make Scarlet’s Legacy more understandable…

23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.

(edited by PaxTheGreatOne.9472)

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Posted by: Menadena.7482

Menadena.7482

The problem with having it in fractals is not everyone plays them.

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Posted by: PaxTheGreatOne.9472

PaxTheGreatOne.9472

The problem with having it in fractals is not everyone plays them.

I wrote low level so about lvl 1-25 difficulty . this should be accessible, also the fractals portal would be very suited to this suggestion as fractals is a containment of (ancient) moments in history you can go to and try to correct.

Other level encounters could be added or just used from existing fractals as a collection of levels needed to be played in sequence with the movies reinstated.

23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.

(edited by PaxTheGreatOne.9472)

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Posted by: Bearhugger.4326

Bearhugger.4326

No compromise, please! A replayable season 1 should be just like the replayable season 2, 3, etc. Take the important parts of season 1 (there aren’t that many) put them into instances and tell the story that way. If it’s too much work for them they’re more than justified to charge gems for the episodes, but I want a full-blown story chapter, not fractals.

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

The problem with having it in fractals is not everyone plays them.

I wrote low level so about lvl 1-25 difficulty . this should be accessible, also the fractals portal would be very suited to this suggestion as fractals is a containment of (ancient) moments in history you can go to and try to correct.

Other level encounters could be added or just used from existing fractals as a collection of levels needed to be played in sequence with the movies reinstated.

Or just, you know. Not in fractals. I don’t think its a good idea to distort the fractal experience just to add the living story season 1.

Could just as well turn the rift manipulator into class V and open story instances with that. Because the Charr that fixesvit obviously imo has some reality jumping going on where he doesnt remember you.

Plus story works so much better when its not balanced to 5man instances.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

(edited by FrizzFreston.5290)

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

Almost everything worth salvaging from season 1 has been salvaged. The story, such as it was, was embarassingly awful and should never see the light of day again.

Turn the marionette battle and the retaking of LA into fractals, and that’s everything worthwhile from it.

I tend to agree partially,

Making the present LS 1 fractals replayable in fractals in a low level special fractal sequence called “Return to Scarlet’s War”

I Rise of Scarlet

  • Introduction to Ceara (could see Dry top holo projector in scarlet’s room LS S2 E1)
  • Steam creatures in Lake of Lamentation
  • Thaumanova Fractal

II Scarlet’s armies:
a) Molten Alliance

  • Molten Furnace Fractal
  • Molten Boss Fractal
    b) Aetherblades
  • Not so Secret
  • Aetherblade Fractal
  • Mai Trin Fractal
    -Intermission-
  • Treason; The Betrayal of the Watchwork Knights
    c)Toxic Alliance
  • events are still active in Kessex Hills
  • Nightmare (toxic alliance)
  • the Watchwork Marionette (either cinematic or actual reinstation of the event. The marionette rebooted? )

III The Demise of Scarlet: Lion’s Arch under Siege!

  • Assault on LA (instance, old LA)
  • Breachmaker (instance)

And complement these with the story line (could be harvested from season 1)) with the cinematics detailing “The Rise and Fall of Scarlet Briar”
This would finish it, and this should include the fight in the Breachmaker as the destruction of old LA as well… and make Scarlet’s Legacy more understandable…

I would turn that into:
Meeting Rox and Braham ( Molten Alliance)

Meeting Canach and Kasmeer ( Trouble at Southsun)

Meeting Marjory (and Kasmeer) plus voting for Kiel ( Assasination on Theo and finding atherblades, visitting zephyrites)

Meeting Scarlet With Rox and Braham ( Watchwork knights and Queens jubilee)

Investigating toxic alliance with kasmeer and Marjory

Meeting Taimi (Watchwork marrionette and investigations into preparations for a big attack can hint at thaumanova and Aetherpath)

And then Escape/ Attack on Lions Arch.

I never thought the story was that bad at all to be honest. Just felt very directionless at the time because of all the loose parts. If not the longer times in between connected parts.

Looking back, its too much to keep track of over a longer period.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

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Posted by: PaxTheGreatOne.9472

PaxTheGreatOne.9472

The problem with having it in fractals is not everyone plays them.

I wrote low level so about lvl 1-25 difficulty . this should be accessible, also the fractals portal would be very suited to this suggestion as fractals is a containment of (ancient) moments in history you can go to and try to correct.

Other level encounters could be added or just used from existing fractals as a collection of levels needed to be played in sequence with the movies reinstated.

Or just, you know. Not in fractals. I don’t think its a good idea to distort the fractal experience just to add the living story season 1.

Could just as well turn the rift manipulator into class V and open story instances with that. Because the Charr that fixesvit obviously imo has some reality jumping going on where he doesnt remember you.

Plus story works so much better when its not balanced to 5man instances.

The fractals exprience is just a collection of events from teh past you are thrusted into, IMHO it would make sense to have people find out things from the past in this environment, it seems sound in a lore perspective. I doubt we would need a whole new coencept f fractals, We just need 1 more Krewe member who can direct people to this content.

And story is 5 man anyways.

23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.

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Posted by: Linken.6345

Linken.6345

No compromise, please! A replayable season 1 should be just like the replayable season 2, 3, etc. Take the important parts of season 1 (there aren’t that many) put them into instances and tell the story that way. If it’s too much work for them they’re more than justified to charge gems for the episodes, but I want a full-blown story chapter, not fractals.

You do know that most of season 1 was open world right?

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Posted by: Bearhugger.4326

Bearhugger.4326

No compromise, please! A replayable season 1 should be just like the replayable season 2, 3, etc. Take the important parts of season 1 (there aren’t that many) put them into instances and tell the story that way. If it’s too much work for them they’re more than justified to charge gems for the episodes, but I want a full-blown story chapter, not fractals.

You do know that most of season 1 was open world right?

Of course I know, but how do you want to relive world-changing events such as the destruction of old Lion’s Arch if it remains open world? You can’t.

What people want them to do is a remake of season 1 that plays in instances so that you can live the story and it’s major dungeons and battles solo. Yes, that means taking things like Tower of Nightmares and the battle of Lion’s Arch and making solo instanced versions of those where you play with your bros of Dragon’s Watch.

So basically, season 1 would be new content, simply because the actual content of season 1 is not reusable in the new format. New content, which would monopolize some development resources, but if they put a season 1 I want an actual story I can play through, not some half-done excuse like a fractal or a bunch of cutscenes. If they have to charge for it I will be happy to pay up, but I want a real season, in the current format. Nothing less.

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

The problem with having it in fractals is not everyone plays them.

I wrote low level so about lvl 1-25 difficulty . this should be accessible, also the fractals portal would be very suited to this suggestion as fractals is a containment of (ancient) moments in history you can go to and try to correct.

Other level encounters could be added or just used from existing fractals as a collection of levels needed to be played in sequence with the movies reinstated.

Or just, you know. Not in fractals. I don’t think its a good idea to distort the fractal experience just to add the living story season 1.

Could just as well turn the rift manipulator into class V and open story instances with that. Because the Charr that fixesvit obviously imo has some reality jumping going on where he doesnt remember you.

Plus story works so much better when its not balanced to 5man instances.

The fractals exprience is just a collection of events from teh past you are thrusted into, IMHO it would make sense to have people find out things from the past in this environment, it seems sound in a lore perspective. I doubt we would need a whole new coencept f fractals, We just need 1 more Krewe member who can direct people to this content.

And story is 5 man anyways.

Story isn’t purely 5 man and never has been. Its always been about the commander never about his partymembers.

Plus putting living story Season 1 out of line with personal story and season 2 is just confusing. Personal story already makes perfect use of old Lions Arch for story without it needing fractals to return to. It really doesnt make a difference whether Rifts, historian NPCs fractals or just normal chronological order story instances with some subtle hints of it being in the past.

So in the end, its really a design choice. I think what they did with personal story and the sepia post processing and fixing the story into one chronological piece ( Pers. Story-LW1-LW2 etc.) in the open world is better than a magimetaphysical fractals book to read afterwards. Which you can already do with the story journal anyway.

Plus it leaves the fractals alone for more serious group content.

Not that I think your idea is terrible btw… i just very much prefer it in the story journal and open world.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

(edited by FrizzFreston.5290)

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

No compromise, please! A replayable season 1 should be just like the replayable season 2, 3, etc. Take the important parts of season 1 (there aren’t that many) put them into instances and tell the story that way. If it’s too much work for them they’re more than justified to charge gems for the episodes, but I want a full-blown story chapter, not fractals.

You do know that most of season 1 was open world right?

Of course I know, but how do you want to relive world-changing events such as the destruction of old Lion’s Arch if it remains open world? You can’t.

What people want them to do is a remake of season 1 that plays in instances so that you can live the story and it’s major dungeons and battles solo. Yes, that means taking things like Tower of Nightmares and the battle of Lion’s Arch and making solo instanced versions of those where you play with your bros of Dragon’s Watch.

So basically, season 1 would be new content, simply because the actual content of season 1 is not reusable in the new format. New content, which would monopolize some development resources, but if they put a season 1 I want an actual story I can play through, not some half-done excuse like a fractal or a bunch of cutscenes. If they have to charge for it I will be happy to pay up, but I want a real season, in the current format. Nothing less.

To be fair. Both the fractal option as the normal story instance option need to greatly overhaul any content. Especially if there is stuff that is broken due to years of updates. I doubt there’s great benefit from doing fractals or normal story instances.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

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Posted by: Ashantara.8731

Ashantara.8731

What people want them to do is a remake of season 1 that plays in instances so that you can live the story and its major dungeons and battles solo. Yes, that means taking things like Tower of Nightmares and the battle of Lion’s Arch and making solo instanced versions of those where you play with your bros of Dragon’s Watch.

This.

Unfortunately, trying to have a conversation on behalf of this topic always seems to result in some nay-sayers trying to lecture us about the nature of the original LWS1 and how it’s not possible or would take up too many resources (as in devs working on it), so “That’s not gonna happen, deal with it!”, and blah blah blah. It’s like running against a wall when you are trying to have that discussion on here.

If only petitions worked with ArenaNet, one could show them how many newer players would be interested in such a project and would gladly pay for the content.

(edited by Ashantara.8731)

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Posted by: Wondrouswall.7169

Wondrouswall.7169

I only want 2 things to changed in dungeons:

  • Go over the inanimate objects in those instances to be affected by conditions so condition builds aren’t hindered in certain paths.
  • Bring back Twilight Arbor’s Forward/Up path. I don’t recall the Aether path colliding with the F/U path, but if it does – shift it over. I miss that path so much and it was fun to do and have.
PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.

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Posted by: Linken.6345

Linken.6345

I only want 2 things to changed in dungeons:

  • Go over the inanimate objects in those instances to be affected by conditions so condition builds aren’t hindered in certain paths.
  • Bring back Twilight Arbor’s Forward/Up path. I don’t recall the Aether path colliding with the F/U path, but if it does – shift it over. I miss that path so much and it was fun to do and have.

They dont collied at all but apparently it was to much of a hassle to fix the last boss in forward up so it was decided to remove it.