Guild Wars 2

Sunday evening at 11:30 PM CST after a few hours of great PvP in the game I decided I wanted to relax a bit and go cap some hero challenges on the second map in HoT. Watching map chat from the time I entered the zone until I attempted to utilize t myself was painful and quite sad. Three questions asked about map sepecifics over the course of about 15 minutes and not a single answer offered up. Aside from that… crickets.

Went to GH and came back. Played some more. Same experience. A few questions asked, no one answering. I realized very few were on the map. The map was highly populated the previous week. I finally realize the swarm of gammers who come tough like locust and consume everything then move on to…. something else. Were mostly gone. Either sleeping after their 200+ hour stint of play or off to some other game having scarfed down the content they needed. One of their friends can tell them when Raids hit and they can come back when things get interesting again.

I know gamer culture well, but sadly I’m not 14 any more.

At this point I realize I’ve missed the heard and that since HoT is largely no soloable I’ll be reduced to running from mobs most of the time and playing a lot of adventures for XP. I realize getting help with a specific Hero Challenge will be near impossible and require a lot of begging from this point on (or waiting around).

In spite of all this I still love the expansion. I can’t think of much the developer can do to change things to make it better for the more casual players. They can’t control the habits of the swarm or be expected to. As a predominately PvP player my goals with HoT have nothing to do with maxing masteries, legendaries, etc.. I care about finishing the story missions and I care about Elite Specialization unlock. Even at 250 HP the Elite Specialization is going to be much more difficult for the non-heard/swarming “I got their fist nah-na-na-nah-na-na” crowd to obtain, because the resources to help are much more limited at this juncture. That’s why we were pushing so hard for ANet to change it as to not appease the swarm. But of course if the swarm got their way they might stick around another month.

The difference between the average “swarm” player and the more causal PvE types. The “swarm” player is just scarfing down the game to move on. They are generally gamer who player many game.s. The more casual types I’ve met generally player 1 game, GW2 because their time is limited and they’ve chosen GW2 HoT to be the one to devote to. If GW2 were your product which of these two groups do you think is going to give you the highest return on investment over time?

So now the herd is gone (no don’t belching on the GW2 content they scarfed down) the dust can settle. It’s been a bit like moving into a new house only to immediately have a house party the day you move in that last a week. Then finally people leave and you get to enjoy your house. I think we’re transitioning into that phase now as the swarm of “game jumpers” move on to whatever is new and shinny.

After this long rant I’ve decided the best thing I can do at this point is to go back to the first map and just offer to help people. Put my PvE goals ahead and just focus on helping others fullfill their goals. I can at least try to make the game a bit better for someone. I truly believe even with the 250 HP cap that, with the swarm now gone it will take months to obtain all hero challenge points needed. But at least there is still PvP.

If there were few players on the map you would get a message saying so, and an offer to join a more populated map.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Sunday evening at 11:30 PM CST after a few hours of great PvP in the game I decided I wanted to relax a bit and go cap some hero challenges on the second map in HoT. Watching map chat from the time I entered the zone until I attempted to utilize t myself was painful and quite sad. Three questions asked about map sepecifics over the course of about 15 minutes and not a single answer offered up. Aside from that… crickets.

Went to GH and came back. Played some more. Same experience. A few questions asked, no one answering. I realized very few were on the map. The map was highly populated the previous week. I finally realize the swarm of gammers who come tough like locust and consume everything then move on to…. something else. Were mostly gone. Either sleeping after their 200+ hour stint of play or off to some other game having scarfed down the content they needed. One of their friends can tell them when Raids hit and they can come back when things get interesting again.

I know gamer culture well, but sadly I’m not 14 any more.

At this point I realize I’ve missed the heard and that since HoT is largely no soloable I’ll be reduced to running from mobs most of the time and playing a lot of adventures for XP. I realize getting help with a specific Hero Challenge will be near impossible and require a lot of begging from this point on (or waiting around).

In spite of all this I still love the expansion. I can’t think of much the developer can do to change things to make it better for the more casual players. They can’t control the habits of the swarm or be expected to. As a predominately PvP player my goals with HoT have nothing to do with maxing masteries, legendaries, etc.. I care about finishing the story missions and I care about Elite Specialization unlock. Even at 250 HP the Elite Specialization is going to be much more difficult for the non-heard/swarming “I got their fist nah-na-na-nah-na-na” crowd to obtain, because the resources to help are much more limited at this juncture. That’s why we were pushing so hard for ANet to change it as to not appease the swarm. But of course if the swarm got their way they might stick around another month.

The difference between the average “swarm” player and the more causal PvE types. The “swarm” player is just scarfing down the game to move on. They are generally gamer who player many game.s. The more casual types I’ve met generally player 1 game, GW2 because their time is limited and they’ve chosen GW2 HoT to be the one to devote to. If GW2 were your product which of these two groups do you think is going to give you the highest return on investment over time?

So now the herd is gone (no don’t belching on the GW2 content they scarfed down) the dust can settle. It’s been a bit like moving into a new house only to immediately have a house party the day you move in that last a week. Then finally people leave and you get to enjoy your house. I think we’re transitioning into that phase now as the swarm of “game jumpers” move on to whatever is new and shinny.

After this long rant I’ve decided the best thing I can do at this point is to go back to the first map and just offer to help people. Put my PvE goals ahead and just focus on helping others fullfill their goals. I can at least try to make the game a bit better for someone. I truly believe even with the 250 HP cap that, with the swarm now gone it will take months to obtain all hero challenge points needed. But at least there is still PvP.

I haven’t had quite as bad luck as you with the maps. People still won’t answer most questions asked in map chat (in my experience) but I can still get help with Hero Challenges if I’m willing to camp the locations, usually for a 5-10 minute wait, before some players show up.

Yeah, it’s still annoying to have to do the wait thing at all (I’ve taken to keeping some light reading nearby for the waiting times) but I guess we gotta do what we gotta do if we want to actually get 100% on the new maps.

Does anyone actually get put into a “more populated map” when they click yes in that pop-up box? Every time I click that button I just get put into a different, still low populated, map.
The main issue is that a lot of people taxi into specific maps for meta events. This results in those maps being completely full, and the others being essentially dead.

New maps have felt much less populated than the old ones even when the swarm was here. They are much bigger and more going on all the time. Even at launch it felt like the player cap for these map could, and should, be raised a bit.

If you’re alone (or think you are), when you get to an event put on your mentor tag if you have one. I bet other people are looking around for others to play with and you’ll get a group going.

While I laugh at the doom and gloom tone of your post, I do at least agree that it was a HUGE mistake on their part to tie so much of the content to massive group participation, especially without giving players the tools to better coordinate those activities (like being able to specifically select maps from a list rather than being randomly assigned one).

VB is pretty empty. There’s not a lot to do there. AB/TD/DS is where everyone is now doing the meta events.

Mallis.4295:

VB is pretty empty. There’s not a lot to do there. AB/TD/DS is where everyone is now doing the meta events.

Shame, cause those few(im guessing? alot of people dont even know that it exists from talking to map chat) of us who want the Bladed chest piece are left in the dust by this >.<

Mallis.4295:

VB is pretty empty. There’s not a lot to do there. AB/TD/DS is where everyone is now doing the meta events.

There’s plenty to do in VB, it’s just the heard/swarm have moved far past it. Now it’s finally in the state that it will be in normally since house warming party (the pigs of launch) has moved on back to their favorite MMO or on to new and shinny game whatever. Back in the hands of the people who actually love GW2 now.

Why don’t developers design content to scale with expectations of the inevitable launch swarm that inevitably always always shrinks around 1.5 weeks post launch.

ArenaNet please time gate the kitten out of the next expansion. Use similar technique to Guild Hall time gating and make it so those hardcore gainers can not rush to the finish line 1 week in.

Wahaha.7938:

If there were few players on the map you would get a message saying so, and an offer to join a more populated map.

Only if there was a more populated map.

Astralporing.1957:

Wahaha.7938:

If there were few players on the map you would get a message saying so, and an offer to join a more populated map.

Only if there was a more populated map.

This is the real problem. There just isn’t. Launch week is over and swarm has moved on. If you weren’t part of it, you missed it. Perspectives take hold. Regardless if you’re someone who chooses to devote all your free time to gaming (adolescent hard core player) or you took a week of vacation to play 200+ hours (adult hard core) you’re still part of the problem with MMOs.

To be fair the developers encourage this. They could time gate it so only about 2-3 hours of progression a day is achievable, but they know then the hardcore crowd would get very fussy and rage-leave. So they go so far as to essentially encourage the launch week numbers to sky rocket.

When the dust settles (as it has) there is a much different play experience to be had. Searching the jungle for 10-15 minutes find another player, all content you enjoyed a few days earlier now seemingly impossible. As you look at your hero points and you see you only have 140 and that 0% of the map population is willing to help you, you begin to real in your thoughts on initial 400 hp req and the hard core crowd that wanted to keep the number high. Those players largely cared nothing about the casual crowd left behind once they swarm out. The swarm of course only cares about one thing, the prestige of being able to scream like a spoiled, filthy, rotte- to-the-core, child “me first”. This crowd reduces the game. They are negative energy in the long term. Players with only self-serving interest with zero respect for the property who are just looking to add another “notch in their belt”. Because I see their behavior as disrespectful of something I respect it’s very difficult to not despise them.

They swarm in then swarm out and leave your favorite game like a store that’s been robbed and ransacked which in this context means empty.

This is hardly unexpected. The Silverwastes constantly had people in because it was the best farming map. However, Anet seem to have taken away the wrong design concept from this and decided if they make more maps like the Silverwastes and then overly complicate the simple event designs, then people will just magically fill the maps like some kind of Guild Wars 2 version of Field of Dreams. It was never going to work like that.

People have a very finite economy of time and effort that they can afford to spend. They will naturally gravitate towards the things they need and the best rewards. Hence the early game hero point and mastery rushes and then people moving on to farming maps. This was entirely predictable and yet Anet completely failed to design around a such a simple concept, instead choosing to create vast, sprawling maps that rely on group co-operation even though there’s no real draw for large groups to be there.

Comparing it again to the Silverwastes, Silverwastes meta progress is wholly determined by player action. Whereas HoT maps are all on hard timers. Unlike Silverwastes where you can turn up in a mostly empty map, taxi people in and then start rolling, it’s entirely possible to land into a mostly empty Verdant Brink map, taxi people in and then ten minutes later get the Prepare For Forty-Five Minutes Of Boring Night Events message. Why even bother?

There actually is a way to handle it better, and it’s something they tried to implement in other events: Scaling. An event detects how many people are present and scales accordingly. Have you been in the labyrinth lately? If you roam the map, all the mobs are level 80. If you’re with a zerg, the doors spawn more foes and/or higher level foes.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

To be fair the developers encourage this. They could time gate it so only about 2-3 hours of progression a day is achievable, but they know then the hardcore crowd would get very fussy and rage-leave.

Square Enix did exactly that in FFXIV V1 it was called the fatigue system and you’re right, it was hated but not just by the hardcore being referred to in this thread, because ‘casual’ is a flexible word and by no means does it refer to only those able to play a couple of hours a day, at most.

I would suggest using LFG.

Anets mega server “system” currently takes 500 players and places them on 10 different instances of the map. This means you have 10 useless maps and no good maps.

People use LFG to shuttle into maps so that you have 2 maps with 200 players and 8 maps with 12 people each.

If Anet fixed their megaserver system so that it places 160 players on each map then you’d have 3 full maps and 1 overflow map . But they don’t seem interested in that.

Wahaha.7938:

If there were few players on the map you would get a message saying so, and an offer to join a more populated map.

get them every 15mins or so……

What’s funny is that I got the message to move maps the other night while doing the legendary wyvern event with about 25 other people all up there.

Working as intended?

Archetype.3425:

Does anyone actually get put into a “more populated map” when they click yes in that pop-up box? Every time I click that button I just get put into a different, still low populated, map.
The main issue is that a lot of people taxi into specific maps for meta events. This results in those maps being completely full, and the others being essentially dead.

I am always lumbered in the least populated zone..

It was 2330 CST on Sunday night. I like most people who work first shift were long into sleep.

tbh I was awake and in auric basin at 0420 central this morning and did 3 or 4 champ heroic challenges with groups, no problem. You have to pick your times better?

Also use LFG there is almost always groups forming of heroic challenges in there right now. I’ve never had a problem getting a group at anytime using that tool. If you are posting here there are 100 people nor posting here looking for the same I bet.

Well, first of all, I don’t play with map chat turned on and most of my guildies when asked are the same. Map chat is a blend of spam and inane chatter.

And… you have access to five guilds to be in, there is no one in those guilds free to come and help you kill a champ? Most of them are duoable.

I’ve been at the same HP three days in a row – no other players. Not even using LFG helps. I just want to map complete. I don’t care about all the events, but please just let me do my map completion even without other players around. Am I really expected to enjoy waiting for this hours on end?

Darkwvlf.9018:

tbh I was awake and in auric basin at 0420 central this morning and did 3 or 4 champ heroic challenges with groups, no problem. You have to pick your times better?

really…?
maybe for a raid. For personal progression (hero point) it shouldn’t be a problem playing at the time you want. Telling him to pick his times better is not the answer, and you know, some people work and can not pick times. The answer is better map design and not the clusterkitten that the jungle is.

Maybe the end of Halloween will bring a new wave of players into HoT.
Maybe tomorrow’s update will make some changes to encourage a second wave.
Maybe not.

Seemed fine just a hour ago.

Swoo.5079:

Seemed fine just a hour ago.

Excellent, a screen of an event where people moved in from other maps by taxi.

Again, it doesn’t help those asking for help in Auric on HP points (or even in Verdant), as asking those people on that screenie for help when they are busy doing those events usually gets the same reply ‘sorry doing bosses/events/fill in blank’.

Sure, when the event ends and they don’t decide to log to another map, taxi elsewhere and you’ve now stood at the HP that took you 10 attempts to get for for the hour you have to play at night, maybe one person might come to help, wipe, then leave, and you’ve spent your entire leisure time just being bored/frustrated.

It’s not good game design.

Hell, I’ve not even made it past the second map on any toon yet- I find trying to reach mastery spots annoying when they are guarded by endless veterans, and HP’s are champs that can almost one shot through 2.1k toughness..and then some paths are BLOCKED OFF but it doesn’t show that on the map, so another ten minutes of running around wasted. And maybe passing one other player briefly whilst they are on their way to the mega event at the bottom of the map.

Or a WP that you can reach but can only get out of if you have level 3 mastery, as otherwise you can’t use the exits…

Here are a few things I would like to toss into the hat for ArenaNet mull over in dealing with the problem of the “the evacuating swarm”

• Starting about a week post launch, “hire” from the trusted play testing staff to transition to just being paid-to-play gamers on specific servers and help players. Put 10 -15of these players on a map. Compensate them well with gems (e.g. 1,200 gems an hour). As time goes on slowly reduce the number of ANet employees playing. Their purpose would not to be a permit fixture to keep server traffic up but to ease the transition when the swarm leaves to help us ease into what the average populations will be. They would be helping prevent the horrible drop off point that happens about this into a new MMO expansion’s life

• Increase balancing rewards and target them at players doing meta events. E.g. problem: 100 players on a server are participating in a meta event. 10 players are on the map doing non-meta map content. Randomly select 40 doing the meta event and give them a dialog saying “World events could use a little help. Help with world events to get a special reward”… What that reward is can be thought out by the dev team. The algorithm could just start a timer when the player accepts to leave the meta event and begin counting all the world events and content they helped with: vista, hero challenges, way points, world event competition could all add to the points they earn when the time is on. Then make the awards something desirable. and slightly better than what the meta event would award them. They should feel like lottery winners getting picked to ask to leave the meta for a unique challenge of helping with world content, but once the timer runs out they’ve either passed or failed. So they are leaving one challenge to go after another; not sacrificing their meta event awards to help other, simply being offered a new way to get great rewards by making the meta sacrifice to help with map balance.

• Make it so scaling works differently during low population times. ANet obviously wants the new content to be for groups but you shouldn’t block progression when groups aren’t around. Yes, I know most MMOs do, it’s because the developers haven’t been innovative enough to fix the problem. When you have a new expansion come out and getting one other person to help with events is already a challenge less than two weeks post launch you can see the benefit this would provide. Everything is logged so if the game populations adapts and a lot more start playing at 3 AM, after a few days of that adjust.

A few non-ANet suggestions.

• Media reviewing the game should wait until about 1.5 weeks in and base their review on how the game is functioning following the swarm. Otherwise their review of the game will be context specific to how it played while the launch Swarm was still actively moving tough the maps and keeping everything busy.

• If you find yourself unable to go after your goals on a map, become part of the solution. Realize there is someone else out there in need of help too just as frustrated. Go be part of the solution. Sure you may not get your hero challenge done for a few months, but remember this is the price of being someone who actually respects the game. Empathize with the developer and the other players dealing with this problem of post launch swarm and help make someone else gaming experience good. Now that the scum bags who only cared about the prestige of their “me first” badge have gobbled up all the PvE map competition content and are focused on meta events or other games, you can take some pride in knowing the game finally belongs to your type now.

Notsoperky.2348:

Swoo.5079:

Seemed fine just a hour ago.

Excellent, a screen of an event where people moved in from other maps by taxi.

I don’t know. I logged in and there I was on a map where stuff was happening.

Anyway this was a comment on a thread stating the swarm has left hot. Maybe I’m really lucky and the game keeps tossing me in the maps with the swarm.

About your HP problem.
Have you tried advertise in LFG?

The couple of instances I arrived at a HP and no one else was there I advertised in LFG tool and map chat. Less than 5 minutes later I had more than 5 people.

About your 10 minutes “wasted time”. I call it fun exploration.

Notsoperky.2348:

Again, it doesn’t help those asking for help in Auric on HP points (or even in Verdant), as asking those people on that screenie for help when they are busy doing those events usually gets the same reply ‘sorry doing bosses/events/fill in blank’.

To be honest I and most of my friend never answer question in map chat. With guild chat, TS and actually playing the game my attention is pretty occupied already. Even in the guild chat, there could several minutes if not hours during which I don’t read it. And I bet it’s the same for the majority of players. Each time i go in VB I tag up and 5-10 person follow me for a chain of event. With 5 chain of event, 5 adventures and map completion, that pretty much what you could except. There is bit of stuff to do all over the map in VB so people are spread out more.

do any of u know how megaserver works :P

it literally doesnt make a difference whether there’s 200000 or 500 people playing in verdant brink, in terms of how many people you see on the map

Wahaha.7938:

If there were few players on the map you would get a message saying so, and an offer to join a more populated map.

Last map I got moved from an empty final map to one just as empty. No event started – zilch. Dust everywhere. Did Aruic Basin, reconnected … on mentor runnign along. We did Tarir with 3 people on one gate and 5 on another. Pointless, really.

Every here of the LFG tool???

You can also quest on other servers!!

Although I could not point you to the quote, I was pretty sure I heard/ read that there was an issue with the mega servers involving the new maps, that they were going to address sometime in the near future. Am I remembering correctly? I’m not sure. But that’s how I recall it.

Morfedel.4165:

Although I could not point you to the quote, I was pretty sure I heard/ read that there was an issue with the mega servers involving the new maps, that they were going to address sometime in the near future. Am I remembering correctly? I’m not sure. But that’s how I recall it.

They did state that.

Morfedel.4165:

Although I could not point you to the quote, I was pretty sure I heard/ read that there was an issue with the mega servers involving the new maps, that they were going to address sometime in the near future. Am I remembering correctly? I’m not sure. But that’s how I recall it.

Yep right now the Megaserver is just doing a poor Job. A Friend an I let a Map expire and we both got to different Maps, both who were not what you can call full, but also not really empty. It seems the Megaserver tries to fill every Map at the same Time instead of making a Map full enough so Players can do all Meta Events before filling another Map.
There are many Players on HoT Maps, its just the Mega Server that at the Moment, kittens this up

I just wanted to pop in and say I’ve been in VB solidly for the past 3 days. Today included, they’ve all been filled pretty well. I think once Saturday night and Sunday evening I went to a friends map because it was a bit slow. But there are still quite a few people out here doing the events.

You’re most likely having a bit of bad luck getting low population maps. I’m on my second clear with an alt, lots of folks are doing the same.

Anowyyn.2304:

I just wanted to pop in and say I’ve been in VB solidly for the past 3 days. Today included, they’ve all been filled pretty well. I think once Saturday night and Sunday evening I went to a friends map because it was a bit slow. But there are still quite a few people out here doing the events.

You’re most likely having a bit of bad luck getting low population maps. I’m on my second clear with an alt, lots of folks are doing the same.

Verdant Brink seems to be doing fine … I usually get a more or less populated map there and even a smaller population can do the outpost events in time if you fire up your commandr and shout a lot in chat till you have like 10+ people to get the show rolling. My nemesis is Auric Basin and the final map (haven’t been much in the third map, yet) – I’d really like to see Tarir complete properly once ….

Getting bladed armor chest is impossible now, since you need T4 reward during the night defenses and all the Verdant Brink night maps i ever see have all, but one or two outposts taken by Mordrems and rarely reach lvl 2 reward.

fellyn.5083:

What’s funny is that I got the message to move maps the other night while doing the legendary wyvern event with about 25 other people all up there.

Working as intended?

Working as intended if you were the only 25 people on that map, or there were only another 25 in the entire map for a total of 50(that’s the approximate number it reaches before deciding the map is empty and needs to be closed, but there is also a bug with how the Megaserver tech is populating the HoT maps at the moment[though I’m pretty sure that was already addressed once, might still be a little problem with it]).

THIS. is exacly why anet needs to add the Bladed chest armor to the vendor, as it is now it is LITTERALY impossible to get the meta to t4

ive been trying for the last couple of days now and only once have i come CLOSE to getting it to t4.

People being asocial in map chat is not evidence of a map with few people on it. In fact, the only times I can recall map chat being active is 1) when there’s a taxi’d event chain going on, in which it’s mostly people calling stuff out and 2) when there’s a disagreement about something.

City chat is usually more active, but that’s because a lot of people hanging out in the city aren’t doing anything that occupies their attention.

Keep in mind, too, that when you ask a question, it’s possible you’re surrounded by people who don’t have the answer. They may be as new to the content as yourself.

Lord Deus.7092:

THIS. is exacly why anet needs to add the Bladed chest armor to the vendor, as it is now it is LITTERALY impossible to get the meta to t4

ive been trying for the last couple of days now and only once have i come CLOSE to getting it to t4.

This so much, the only way to get to T4 is to have numerous small groups defending the rally points all over the map. But as we have known, players tend to zerg together, and most of the rally points are not very accessible. Most instances that I have been to, wouldn’t even cross the T2 mark (for the night missions). Bladed Coat is literally out of reach.

A someone who did not buy HoT, I see remarkably little reason to want to become a late adopter.

IndigoSundown.5419:

A someone who did not buy HoT, I see remarkably little reason to want to become a late adopter.

I’m curious. Since you didn’t buy HoT, how do you like to spend your time in game?

Celtic Lady.3729:

IndigoSundown.5419:

A someone who did not buy HoT, I see remarkably little reason to want to become a late adopter.

I’m curious. Since you didn’t buy HoT, how do you like to spend your time in game?

If I remember, which is not always guaranteed at my age, I log into Timberline Falls, get my login rewards, farm a few nodes, then go play something else. Every once in a while I sell a stack of mats. If I ever do come back more regularly, which I’d like to do if only ANet were to revert to a company that cares about my type of gamer, I’ll have some laurels and a bit of gold. If Anet continues on its current course, I may end up uninstalling if I need the GB.

Mallis.4295:

VB is pretty empty. There’s not a lot to do there. AB/TD/DS is where everyone is now doing the meta events.

Was in TD all Sunday and not once did anyone even attempt the meta event.

Folks had no problem filing the bar to full but the final event may as well not even exist for the few that show up and watch it fail in a matter of minutes.

Once people complete their Masteries, TD will be a complete ghost town.

I’ve seen a lot of people going after DS and Tarir metas lately.
I believe more people are just spread out at the moment working on certain goals that they are going for. Ala tyria masteries, halloween end, crafting etc…
Or they are just not paying attention to map chat/have it turned off.