Guild Wars 2

[…] has promised another huge slice of story 50-60 hours long to keep us busy over the coming months, as well as new Jobs, flying mounts, a raised level cap for both combat and crafting classes, an airship workshop, eight new dungeons, a multipart raid with both normal and savage modes, and more.

Source

Whether you like these contents or not, it still is quite a lot of stuff to do if you compare to HoT, and yet, nothing is being released in the live game.

Nah, i will just let you notice the “raised level cap” statement.

That means that players able to get the exp will benefit not only the additional content, bul also an elite status, alse elite intrests.
Just take in consideration world of warcraft: you have this raid for level 60 full of bees, then the expc drops and raises it to 70. If you want you can play as level 60 with only base content, only that those who get the expc will have no more intrest in level 60 dungeons where thay can go in level 70 with increased, new and flashy rewards, reducing greatly the population that can actually play as level 60.

There are many other things but i don’t delve too much in them because i don’ t know FF XIV too much, but the example i proposed i guess is enough to understand a thing: if you add increase in level cap, increase in item potency or stuff like that, then it’ s a pretty much mandatory expansion due to mmo “competitive” nature, and i am not talking about pvp but about peer pressure.

HOT, while not very ripe of content ( as we know now) but is not mandatory, has not such an issue and, if there is, is tied to meta shifts in favor of elite specs, and for that we can only hope will be balanced enough.

EDIT: loads of typos.

I do have to wonder, but how big is the size of the FF14 team? if its smaller than ANET ill be disappointed, in ANET.

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

This hits the nail in the head.

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

People are mindlessly hypnotized by “raised level cap” and “mounts”; way to throw the focus away. I’m talking about how big it is for that playerbase, comparing to how big HoT is for OUR playerbase, while they’re not even spending resources in live game.

“Moving on” /quote

Valento.9852:

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

Look at your sign.

about content:
I would like more? yes. I am complaining that i have not seen enough? no. that’s it.

besides that, i have already said my own: mandatory expansions demands a kind of budget prevision, as such prevision on costs and development, and i rather prefer some focused additions to the game rather random stuff.

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

I was looking at your signature, too. Which has two more hashtags.

And he/she isn’t talking about you perceiving what the updates for FF are going to be, he’s talking about you thinking HoT won’t have a lot of content. =P

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

I was looking at your signature, too. Which has two more hashtags.

And he/she isn’t talking about you perceiving what the updates for FF are going to be, he’s talking about you thinking HoT won’t have a lot of content. =P

I replied about HoT. Is the xpac going to be 80% open world?

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

I was looking at your signature, too. Which has two more hashtags.

And he/she isn’t talking about you perceiving what the updates for FF are going to be, he’s talking about you thinking HoT won’t have a lot of content. =P

I replied about HoT. Is the xpac going to be 80% open world?

Then maybe I missed a HoT announcement? Can you link me to where they announced the size of the expansion and the breakdown of what and how much of what it will include? Because if you’re saying it’s a reality not a perception, but you don’t have a real source to base that on, then it’s still just perception/assumption.

From what you quoted the only “countable” things are 8 new dungeons and 1 multipart raid. Everything else is just empty fluff, how can you compare what we know about HoT with simple words like “new jobs” or “raised level cap” or even “flying mounts” is beyond me. How exactly to you come to the conclusion that FF14 players will get MORE than we will get in HoT? Is there any evidence to back that up?

Aside from the 8 dungeons, yes it would be nice if we got 8 new dungeons in HoT. And a multipart raid too.

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

I was looking at your signature, too. Which has two more hashtags.

And he/she isn’t talking about you perceiving what the updates for FF are going to be, he’s talking about you thinking HoT won’t have a lot of content. =P

I replied about HoT. Is the xpac going to be 80% open world?

Then maybe I missed a HoT announcement? Can you link me to where they announced the size of the expansion and the breakdown of what and how much of what it will include? Because if you’re saying it’s a reality not a perception, but you don’t have a real source to base that on, then it’s still just perception/assumption.

Colin clearly stated, during HoT very first presentation, that what they were showing is what HoT’s about to avoid people from guessing that more stuff would be released. So yeah, that presentation covered EVERYTHING HoT will have.

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

I was looking at your signature, too. Which has two more hashtags.

And he/she isn’t talking about you perceiving what the updates for FF are going to be, he’s talking about you thinking HoT won’t have a lot of content. =P

I replied about HoT. Is the xpac going to be 80% open world?

Then maybe I missed a HoT announcement? Can you link me to where they announced the size of the expansion and the breakdown of what and how much of what it will include? Because if you’re saying it’s a reality not a perception, but you don’t have a real source to base that on, then it’s still just perception/assumption.

Colin clearly stated, during HoT very first presentation, that what they were showing is what HoT’s about to avoid people from guessing that more stuff would be released. So yeah, that presentation covered EVERYTHING HoT will have.

But it doesn’t cover everything HoT will have in detail. Take the comment, challenging group content.

From my point of view only one thing actually determines the amount of content in an expansion…how long you play it. Everything else is crap.

And we won’t know how long people will play it for, until…I don’t know…we’ve played it.

So many things are misleading on paper. But people never learn.

Valento.9852:

Colin clearly stated, during HoT very first presentation, that what they were showing is what HoT’s about to avoid people from guessing that more stuff would be released. So yeah, that presentation covered EVERYTHING HoT will have.

It covered all major features, yes, but not things like: How many zones are there? How large are the zones? How content-dense are the zones? Will there be new fractals? Will there be new dungeons? How many fractals and dungeons will there be? And so on. So no, the presentation did not cover ‘everything HoT will have’.

Edit: And before you say ‘but why didn’t he announce that there will be new dungeons if he supposedly announced all major features?‘, well.. he did mention ’challenging group content’ as one of the major features, without elaborating what that entails exactly. It is possible that that refers to open world bosses and guild conent but it could also refer to dungeons and fractals. Who knows?

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

I was looking at your signature, too. Which has two more hashtags.

And he/she isn’t talking about you perceiving what the updates for FF are going to be, he’s talking about you thinking HoT won’t have a lot of content. =P

I replied about HoT. Is the xpac going to be 80% open world?

Then maybe I missed a HoT announcement? Can you link me to where they announced the size of the expansion and the breakdown of what and how much of what it will include? Because if you’re saying it’s a reality not a perception, but you don’t have a real source to base that on, then it’s still just perception/assumption.

Colin clearly stated, during HoT very first presentation, that what they were showing is what HoT’s about to avoid people from guessing that more stuff would be released. So yeah, that presentation covered EVERYTHING HoT will have.

But it doesn’t cover everything HoT will have in detail. Take the comment, challenging group content.

From my point of view only one thing actually determines the amount of content in an expansion…how long you play it. Everything else is crap.

And we won’t know how long people will play it for, until…I don’t know…we’ve played it.

So many things are misleading on paper. But people never learn.

I’ll give you that, but still they aren’t releasing anything to the live game…

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

I was looking at your signature, too. Which has two more hashtags.

And he/she isn’t talking about you perceiving what the updates for FF are going to be, he’s talking about you thinking HoT won’t have a lot of content. =P

I replied about HoT. Is the xpac going to be 80% open world?

Then maybe I missed a HoT announcement? Can you link me to where they announced the size of the expansion and the breakdown of what and how much of what it will include? Because if you’re saying it’s a reality not a perception, but you don’t have a real source to base that on, then it’s still just perception/assumption.

Colin clearly stated, during HoT very first presentation, that what they were showing is what HoT’s about to avoid people from guessing that more stuff would be released. So yeah, that presentation covered EVERYTHING HoT will have.

But it doesn’t cover everything HoT will have in detail. Take the comment, challenging group content.

From my point of view only one thing actually determines the amount of content in an expansion…how long you play it. Everything else is crap.

And we won’t know how long people will play it for, until…I don’t know…we’ve played it.

So many things are misleading on paper. But people never learn.

I’ll give you that, but still they aren’t releasing anything to the live game…

True and they don’t charge a monthly fee like the game we’re comparing it too. That’s not free content.

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

I was looking at your signature, too. Which has two more hashtags.

And he/she isn’t talking about you perceiving what the updates for FF are going to be, he’s talking about you thinking HoT won’t have a lot of content. =P

I replied about HoT. Is the xpac going to be 80% open world?

Then maybe I missed a HoT announcement? Can you link me to where they announced the size of the expansion and the breakdown of what and how much of what it will include? Because if you’re saying it’s a reality not a perception, but you don’t have a real source to base that on, then it’s still just perception/assumption.

Colin clearly stated, during HoT very first presentation, that what they were showing is what HoT’s about to avoid people from guessing that more stuff would be released. So yeah, that presentation covered EVERYTHING HoT will have.

But it doesn’t cover everything HoT will have in detail. Take the comment, challenging group content.

From my point of view only one thing actually determines the amount of content in an expansion…how long you play it. Everything else is crap.

And we won’t know how long people will play it for, until…I don’t know…we’ve played it.

So many things are misleading on paper. But people never learn.

I’ll give you that, but still they aren’t releasing anything to the live game…

…except for the Camera Changes, Trait changes (which will be pre-expansion, based on what I’ve heard), Stability Rebalance…

They’re QoL changes and not content, but they’re still additions to the live game.

And Lion’s Arch rebuild. I’m of a mind to expect that before the release of Heart of Thorns. We might be surprised with some content hidden in there (baby Karkas o.O), as well! =)

I wouldn’t like many of the features in that expansion, I would hope GW2’s doesn’t look like that.

MattyP.6954:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

I was looking at your signature, too. Which has two more hashtags.

And he/she isn’t talking about you perceiving what the updates for FF are going to be, he’s talking about you thinking HoT won’t have a lot of content. =P

I replied about HoT. Is the xpac going to be 80% open world?

Then maybe I missed a HoT announcement? Can you link me to where they announced the size of the expansion and the breakdown of what and how much of what it will include? Because if you’re saying it’s a reality not a perception, but you don’t have a real source to base that on, then it’s still just perception/assumption.

Colin clearly stated, during HoT very first presentation, that what they were showing is what HoT’s about to avoid people from guessing that more stuff would be released. So yeah, that presentation covered EVERYTHING HoT will have.

But it doesn’t cover everything HoT will have in detail. Take the comment, challenging group content.

From my point of view only one thing actually determines the amount of content in an expansion…how long you play it. Everything else is crap.

And we won’t know how long people will play it for, until…I don’t know…we’ve played it.

So many things are misleading on paper. But people never learn.

I’ll give you that, but still they aren’t releasing anything to the live game…

…except for the Camera Changes, Trait changes (which will be pre-expansion, based on what I’ve heard), Stability Rebalance…

They’re QoL changes and not content, but they’re still additions to the live game.

Not to mention the story episodes that they were releasing up until the end of LW season 2 and all the other various changes/additions over the past year.

They haven’t added dungeons, though, which is all I can assume OP is really talking about while for some reason avoiding saying it. =s I really do hope they add more, though. I wouldn’t mind a new dungeon with every new map or every other new map or something.

Oolune.4357:

MattyP.6954:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

I was looking at your signature, too. Which has two more hashtags.

And he/she isn’t talking about you perceiving what the updates for FF are going to be, he’s talking about you thinking HoT won’t have a lot of content. =P

I replied about HoT. Is the xpac going to be 80% open world?

Then maybe I missed a HoT announcement? Can you link me to where they announced the size of the expansion and the breakdown of what and how much of what it will include? Because if you’re saying it’s a reality not a perception, but you don’t have a real source to base that on, then it’s still just perception/assumption.

Colin clearly stated, during HoT very first presentation, that what they were showing is what HoT’s about to avoid people from guessing that more stuff would be released. So yeah, that presentation covered EVERYTHING HoT will have.

But it doesn’t cover everything HoT will have in detail. Take the comment, challenging group content.

From my point of view only one thing actually determines the amount of content in an expansion…how long you play it. Everything else is crap.

And we won’t know how long people will play it for, until…I don’t know…we’ve played it.

So many things are misleading on paper. But people never learn.

I’ll give you that, but still they aren’t releasing anything to the live game…

…except for the Camera Changes, Trait changes (which will be pre-expansion, based on what I’ve heard), Stability Rebalance…

They’re QoL changes and not content, but they’re still additions to the live game.

Not to mention the story episodes that they were releasing up until the end of LW season 2 and all the other various changes/additions over the past year.

They haven’t added dungeons, though, which is all I can assume OP is really talking about while for some reason avoiding saying it. =s I really do hope they add more, though. I wouldn’t mind a new dungeon with every new map or every other new map or something.

Instead of just adding new Dungeons, I really hope the fix the “wear zerker, stack in a corner, dpsrace the mobs, rinse, repeat” Dungeon Meta that’s going on right now. There’s no strategy or play to it—it’s just another way to farm. If I wanted to complete dungeon content by blindly going through my skill rotation, I’d still be playing WoW.

I guess I want “challenging” to be the key word in the promised “Challenging Group Content” in the expansion.

Honestly, the amount of content there is going to be imo is not worth an expac.

Unless they are trolling us (like they kinda did with the Xpac.. saying no xpac then releasing one) then we wont see any sort of new dungeon/fractal.

All I am expecting in these terms is some boss rework (new defiance system) and the Fractal cap raised to 60 or 70 (new Fractal Masteries to accomodate)
This is of course assuming they don’t just bunk us all back down to 30 and don’t even bother updating the old bosses defiances (I wouldn’t be surprised if they ignored their old content, wouldn’t be the first time)

Anet have stated before, dungeons take them too much time and effort to rework so it’s unlikely we’re going to see these getting changed.
Unfortunately, the dungeons we have right now are one of the core elements of the game and I feel Anet misunderstands a lot of their players wants and needs.

At some stage open world content gets stale, especially world bosses right now. Everyone has done Vinewrath to death and skipped on doing SW farming even to get beta access.

Fractals are becoming stale, the inclusion of the LS1 steps did more harm then good. Rehashing old content instead of giving us fresh content is not a positive step to breathe live into a less popular game mode.

Dungeons are even older content, however people run these over and over day after day because it generates gold, it’s “somewhat” enjoyable and it provides “some challenge” it’s a bit different from pressing 1 over and over. However, similarly to world bosses after a time dungeons become stale. No amount of QoL changes are going to stop them being the exact same dungeons that we’ve been playing since launch.

Overall I feel anet is slowly but surely killing their game with their narrow direction of story driven content. While the living world is great, it’s not the content that will keep people playing.
I’m surprised that given their experience with GW1 they are choosing to push content that has short term replay value and ultimately wont keep players wanting to log in everyday. The content that does this, is challenging and rewarding. Fractals has the potential to do this but the reward structure isn’t quite there. Dungeons also provide challenging and rewarding content however, with no significant skill changes (even the trait change wont change too much) there is little diversity on efficient clearing. Making the somewhat difficult content a walk in the park.

We saw in GW1 people farming the Elite areas – Fissure of Woe, The Underworld and The Domain of Anguish on a daily basis. Even now (10 years after the games launch) I can still find a group wanting to speedclear FoW. Not because I need anything for Hall of Monuments, but because the instance is fun and everyone in the team enjoys the instance.

I’m pretty sure I could even get a group of players that have quit gw2 already (less than 3 years of playing) to go and clear FoW/UW/DoA randomway a lot easier than I could get them to log into GW2. (Who played from gw1 launch to gw2 launch)

I truly hope that anet can pull it off and provide us with content for the money they are charging us with this Xpac, however I’d be very surprised if this was the case.

Edit Just as an afterthought and to reply to the post above. Removing Zerker isn’t going to change the fact that dungeons/fractals are old at this point. There is little replay value and they are too directional. There is no variety other than,

AC1, Spider>Kholer(Maybe skip)>(Maybe troll – but who kills that)>Burrows for scepter>WP to Kholer> Run to 2nd scepter room>1 Person solos it>Run to boss>Kill boss

That’s how every single AC p1 run goes. There is no, do these 7 objectives in any order to win.
I guess in gw1 the dungeons were the same. However there was a lot better/rarer rewards from those dungeons so it was a bit more exciting to pop the chest.
The other thing in gw1 dungeons was that there were 18 different dungeons that (tho they did reuse a lot of maps) had very unique paths.
The dungeons we have no are 8 dungeons.. and it’s largely the same until a split.. same mobs.. same route.. it’s just all the same..
It’s really no wonder that we stack in the same spots, cuz we get to do each dungeon 3 times a day >.<

The difference was in gw1 we had areas like The Underworld which took between 30-60 mins to clear (without speedclearing) or even longer. There were multiple events that needed to be completed and if you failed said events, or all the team died, you’d have to restart.
10 Missions to complete and you had “some” options of which order to complete them in. It was a lot more interesting than simply go from A to B and if you die, np just res up!

Size is relative. Size/Price and Size/Wait is what is important.

A HoT sized expansion every 3 years is obviously unacceptable. However 2 years of that was Anet denying they needed an expansion. If they throw out a HoT sized expansion every 9 months for $20-30, similar to what SWTOR is doing then that would be very reasonable.

The size of the expansion you linked is one that comes out every 12-18 months and costs $40-50. It needs to be supplemented with significant content updates during the wait. If this is the model Anet is trying to use they are failing spectacularly.

MattyP.6954:

Oolune.4357:

MattyP.6954:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

Valento.9852:

Oolune.4357:

I do wish they would come out and announce a few new dungeons for HoT, but I really don’t want them to do anything like raise the level cap or add mounts.

Also, you use too many hashtags and probably need to rethink what a “white knight” is.

There’s just one hashtag! :0

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

Those aren’t perceived, those are reality.

I was looking at your signature, too. Which has two more hashtags.

And he/she isn’t talking about you perceiving what the updates for FF are going to be, he’s talking about you thinking HoT won’t have a lot of content. =P

I replied about HoT. Is the xpac going to be 80% open world?

Then maybe I missed a HoT announcement? Can you link me to where they announced the size of the expansion and the breakdown of what and how much of what it will include? Because if you’re saying it’s a reality not a perception, but you don’t have a real source to base that on, then it’s still just perception/assumption.

Colin clearly stated, during HoT very first presentation, that what they were showing is what HoT’s about to avoid people from guessing that more stuff would be released. So yeah, that presentation covered EVERYTHING HoT will have.

But it doesn’t cover everything HoT will have in detail. Take the comment, challenging group content.

From my point of view only one thing actually determines the amount of content in an expansion…how long you play it. Everything else is crap.

And we won’t know how long people will play it for, until…I don’t know…we’ve played it.

So many things are misleading on paper. But people never learn.

I’ll give you that, but still they aren’t releasing anything to the live game…

…except for the Camera Changes, Trait changes (which will be pre-expansion, based on what I’ve heard), Stability Rebalance…

They’re QoL changes and not content, but they’re still additions to the live game.

Not to mention the story episodes that they were releasing up until the end of LW season 2 and all the other various changes/additions over the past year.

They haven’t added dungeons, though, which is all I can assume OP is really talking about while for some reason avoiding saying it. =s I really do hope they add more, though. I wouldn’t mind a new dungeon with every new map or every other new map or something.

Instead of just adding new Dungeons, I really hope the fix the “wear zerker, stack in a corner, dpsrace the mobs, rinse, repeat” Dungeon Meta that’s going on right now. There’s no strategy or play to it—it’s just another way to farm. If I wanted to complete dungeon content by blindly going through my skill rotation, I’d still be playing WoW.

I guess I want “challenging” to be the key word in the promised “Challenging Group Content” in the expansion.

Well, it seems they hired an AI Consultant some time ago, maybe they don’t fool us with “challenging”? Maybe…

The problem is the time they are taking to show something meaty.
Anet: We’ll give you guys Guild Hall
Player: Oh great, what we’ll have there?
Anet: We won’t tell you, wait a few months

Anet: We’ll give you guys Challenging content in PvE
Players: OH! What will that be?
Anet: Hold your horses, in a few months we’ll tell about it

Anet: Ok we’ll tell you guys about the elite specializations ..
Player: OMG! Great
Anet: … but we’ll spread the info along 3 months

The info we get is spread so thin along the time that it seems we are getting barely any content.

Valento.9852:

Colin clearly stated, during HoT very first presentation, that what they were showing is what HoT’s about to avoid people from guessing that more stuff would be released. So yeah, that presentation covered EVERYTHING HoT will have.

So.. how much information did they reveal about Outposts and Adventures during said announcement? (hint, it was a grand total of nothing at all) And yet these things seems to be a rather large part of the new maps.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

A HoT sized expansion every 3 years is obviously unacceptable.

And yet a FF sized expansion every five years is totally okay? We should use the original FF-release after all.

Valento.9852:

[…] has promised another huge slice of story 50-60 hours long to keep us busy over the coming months, as well as new Jobs, flying mounts, a raised level cap for both combat and crafting classes, an airship workshop, eight new dungeons, a multipart raid with both normal and savage modes, and more.

Source

Whether you like these contents or not, it still is quite a lot of stuff to do if you compare to HoT, and yet, nothing is being released in the live game.

Well as we don’t know the scope of HoT content yet. ANet has been dreadful silent on that topic… which has led to a number of theories. But remember absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

hennrick.4623:

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

This hits the nail in the head.

I blame the non-working search function. At the very least every time we see another of these threads spamming ‘use search’ would be a valid response.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Size is relative. Size/Price and Size/Wait is what is important.

A HoT sized expansion every 3 years is obviously unacceptable. However 2 years of that was Anet denying they needed an expansion. If they throw out a HoT sized expansion every 9 months for $20-30, similar to what SWTOR is doing then that would be very reasonable.

The size of the expansion you linked is one that comes out every 12-18 months and costs $40-50. It needs to be supplemented with significant content updates during the wait. If this is the model Anet is trying to use they are failing spectacularly.

Fair enough assessment (ignoring that we don’t fully know how big HoT will be). Mind you I’d also love some Living Story to fill in those caps between expansions. The months of no content before an xpac is a little trying.

Belzebu.3912:

The problem is the time they are taking to show something meaty.
Anet: We’ll give you guys Guild Hall
Player: Oh great, what we’ll have there?
Anet: We won’t tell you, wait a few months

Anet: We’ll give you guys Challenging content in PvE
Players: OH! What will that be?
Anet: Hold your horses, in a few months we’ll tell about it

Anet: Ok we’ll tell you guys about the elite specializations ..
Player: OMG! Great
Anet: … but we’ll spread the info along 3 months

The info we get is spread so thin along the time that it seems we are getting barely any content.

Arguably they’re doing this because they don’t want to dump all the info right now and have nothing else until xpac.
A more conspiratorial interpretation would be that they’re still working on / haven’t figured out what to do with Guild Halls and Challenging Content.

The issue I feel is that regardless of the size of the xpac.. They have somewhat said; No new updates/content until it comes out.

Problem then comes with all the people saying “put the game down, do something else and come back later”
Do something else, get addicted to that and then return to a game I have to pay for? Why come back?

We do need some incentive right now to keep playing. What I mean by that is something to do not just look at 120s videos of specialisations.. thats not content..

CureForLiving.5360:

Arguably they’re doing this because they don’t want to dumb all the info right now and have nothing else until xpac.

Firstly I think you meant dump instead of dumb
Secondly, that is the only problem that I see, they announced the xpac too early and now the info we have is too spread, and I think that they didn’t planed on how they would show us the content.
In prior updates they even made a list with suggestive topics and dates to each announcement until the release of the patch, they could have done something similar.

lordkrall.7241:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

A HoT sized expansion every 3 years is obviously unacceptable.

And yet a FF sized expansion every five years is totally okay? We should use the original FF-release after all.

I have no idea what this means. There has never been an MMO that waited 5 years to launch an expansion. FF XIV: A Realm Reborn launched in August 2013… less than 2 years ago…

In fact I believe that GW2 holds the record for longest MMO to go without an expansion (that eventually got one).

FF XIV is a re-release of a game released in 2010. That is 5 years ago.

Belzebu.3912:

CureForLiving.5360:

Arguably they’re doing this because they don’t want to dumb all the info right now and have nothing else until xpac.

Firstly I think you meant dump instead of dumb

Yes I did, and is common in these situations I’ll fall back on the ‘afrikaans seun van die platteland’-excuse :P

Belzebu.3912:

Secondly, that is the only problem that I see, they announced the xpac too early and now the info we have is too spread, and I think that they didn’t planed on how they would show us the content.
In prior updates they even made a list with suggestive topics and dates to each announcement until the release of the patch, they could have done something similar.

Alternatively one could argue that since they don’t yet have a release date they’re not sure how long the information needs to last. So rather over pace themselves than release too quickly. Mind you one would imagine they’d have a rough idea of the release date.

lordkrall.7241:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

A HoT sized expansion every 3 years is obviously unacceptable.

And yet a FF sized expansion every five years is totally okay? We should use the original FF-release after all.

A Realm Reborn was released August 2013. A year after the initial launch they had already announced plans to re-launch so obviously that’s not the time for an expansion. So counting the time between relaunch and now…the first expansion is right on time.

FFIV is a beast of an MMO. Besides the level cap that white knights love to point to and mock the expansion is releasing a new playable race, new regions, dungeons and new skills for existing progressions. Plus fat flying chocobo.

FFXIV is doing well and I have to admit that I’m more hyped for Heavensward right now than I am for Heart of Thorns. And for the avoidance of doubt, FFXIV:ARR had sold four million copies as of March 2015, it doesn’t have four million subscribers.

That said, a comparison like this is misleading. For a start, an FFXIV dungeon is a slice of content about the same size as a single GW2 fractal, not a full-size GW2 dungeon path. GW2 boss fractals are roughly the size of FFXIV turns (8-man hardcore raid instances).

lordkrall.7241:

And yet a FF sized expansion every five years is totally okay? We should use the original FF-release after all.

A Realm Reborn was a massive content drop in a new box. By any reasonable definition of the word, that qualifies as an expansion even if it was branded as a relaunch.

evilunderling.9265:

A Realm Reborn was a massive content drop in a new box. By any reasonable definition of the word, that qualifies as an expansion even if it was branded as a relaunch.

Fair point I suppose.
But that still means 3 years after launch, and then the next two years after that. So it really wouldn’t be considered any faster than GW2 despite what people want to claim.

Diovid.9506:

We needed another thread complaining about the perceived size of HoT and the lack of updates until HoT releases?

It’s a legitimate concern, especially since we don’t know how much they will be charging. If you don’t like these threads, then don’t reply to them. Your posts about them are just as annoying.

lordkrall.7241:

evilunderling.9265:

A Realm Reborn was a massive content drop in a new box. By any reasonable definition of the word, that qualifies as an expansion even if it was branded as a relaunch.

Fair point I suppose.
But that still means 3 years after launch, and then the next two years after that. So it really wouldn’t be considered any faster than GW2 despite what people want to claim.

GW2 has been in development since 2007, which would be 8 years so far. FFIV:ARR had a total revamp from scratch and started development around 2011-2012.

evilunderling.9265:

FFXIV is doing well and I have to admit that I’m more hyped for Heavensward right now than I am for Heart of Thorns.

That is how I feel too. I’m also very happy with the perfect timing of witcher 3, enough to get me out of this hype crap from anet.

nexxe.7081:

GW2 has been in development since 2007, which would be 8 years so far. FFIV:ARR had a total revamp from scratch and started development around 2011-2012.

GW2 was released in 2012 with its first expansion (most likely) coming in 2015 (3 years)
FFXIV was released in 2010 with its first expansion released in 2013 (3 years) with the second expansion coming 2015 (2 years after first one and 5 years after original release).

lordkrall.7241:

nexxe.7081:

GW2 has been in development since 2007, which would be 8 years so far. FFIV:ARR had a total revamp from scratch and started development around 2011-2012.

GW2 was released in 2012 with its first expansion (most likely) coming in 2015 (3 years)
FFXIV was released in 2010 with its first expansion released in 2013 (3 years) with the second expansion coming 2015 (2 years after first one and 5 years after original release).

ARR was not an expansion. Why do you keep insisting it is?

If it was not an expansion I suppose we can go back to the fact that it was 5 years since the game was released and thus 5 years between release and first expansion as opposed to 3 years between release of GW2 and first expansion.

lordkrall.7241:

If it was not an expansion I suppose we can go back to the fact that it was 5 years since the game was released and thus 5 years between release and first expansion as opposed to 3 years between release of GW2 and first expansion.

The game was remade from the ground up… by your logic it has been 11 years since guild wars launched so that is how long this expansion has been in the making.

Vix.6730:

FFIV is a beast of an MMO.

i used to play FFXIV the 1st release, haven’t got to play the second one, while it was fun back at that time but really its no match for GW2, i remember when i tried GW2 after FFXIV its like someone pressed the lights ON for my dark room, the game just feels too old school in comparison.

I love the lore and the music of FFXIV but this is where it stops, GW2 just more advanced and mature and got rid of many of old school MMOs nuisances, while yes GW2 PvE is a bit lacking, but i think PvP and WvW fills the shortages greatly but i still hope to get a deep PvE experience with HoT.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The game was remade from the ground up… by your logic it has been 11 years since guild wars launched so that is how long this expansion has been in the making.

So if they shut down GW2 today and re-launched it with the release of HoT, the release date of the game would be the launch of HoT rather than the original release of the game?

Guild Wars 2 is a completely different game than GW1 (not even the same genre) whilst A Realm Reborn is still Final Fantasy XIV.

lordkrall.7241:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The game was remade from the ground up… by your logic it has been 11 years since guild wars launched so that is how long this expansion has been in the making.

So if they shut down GW2 today and re-launched it with the release of HoT, the release date of the game would be the launch of HoT rather than the original release of the game?

Guild Wars 2 is a completely different game than GW1 (not even the same genre) whilst A Realm Reborn is still Final Fantasy XIV.

Except it’s not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIV:_A_Realm_Reborn#Development

“However, outdated and cumbersome programming choices in the game code prevented the more radical modifications necessary to enhance the game. Thus, planning for a brand new game built from scratch started in January 2011 and development began in earnest by April, with work on a new game engine and server structure.”

“Yoshida reflected on the herculean task of maintaining and updating an MMORPG while simultaneously developing a new one over the course of just two years and eight months.”

He was developing a NEW one alongside the original FFIV.

Nobody would say GW2 is an expansion to GW1, yet you insist that ARR is an expansion to FFXIV.

I am a bit concerned about the size of HoT. There just doesn’t appear to be enough content being released with HoT. I am holding on to the challenging instanced content bit.
Not only is the size of the expansion concerning to me, but the original game lacks replayability in my opinion and so far HoT will do next to nothing to address that. I think that might be a bigger problem overall.

For further notes to inform comparisons:

• ARR launched with very little content – 20 small dungeons; one raid; some trials (single boss instances). Since then, 15 small dungeons, about the same number of trials, and five raids have been added, as well as a small PvP arena and lobby, and two 24v24v24 ‘Frontline’ maps.
• ARR’s open world has 17 explorable zones, 6 city maps (2 per city), and 3 housing districts (each of which has 6 identical ‘wards’). Explorable zones average somewhere around the size of the Silverwastes, possibly a bit larger. Cities are far smaller than GW2 cities despite being spread over two maps each.
• Patches only added instances, although some zones have had updates to their appearances.

Heavensward will roughly double FFXIV’s explorable landmass IIRC, but new zones will be individually larger.