Guild Wars 2

Thief + Rifle = Sniper

We can dream right?

We can more than dream, I think that it will actually happen.

The norn with heritage medium armor in the HoT trailer holding a rifle is a thief imo.

Posted this in my guild’s forums, but I’ll post it here, too. For gigs ’n stuff

The main choices I’ve seen thrown around for Thief are off-sword, mace, and rifle. Off-sword is basically a desire straight from the Drizzt-players wanting all the dual-wields and doesn’t really make a lot of sense. Furthermore, you then get the oddness of main dagger/off-sword, which would be cool for roleplaying a left-handed character but elsewise looks a little strange.

Mace is a stronger contender, but upon further analysis, I think it wouldn’t fit as well as people like. The mace is traditionally a more defensive/controlling weapon in GW2, with both the classes that use it (Warrior, Guardian) using it in a slower-paced, more self-preservation-y manner. This is fine and is a good natural placement for the mace…but for the Thief? That puts it in direct competition with both main-sword sets, which are themselves very defensive/controlling. Sword/Dagger’s evasions, cripples, and stealths can be used very defensively, and Sword/Pistol has a controlling effect of one sort or another on four of its five skill slots (Weakness, stun+evade, stun, AoE pulsing blind). The mace would have to compete with the sword, and since the sword is awesome it would do so only with difficulty.

What the Thief does not have is a strong ranged option. The shortbow used to be an excellent AoE supporting weapon until Lotus Poison was completely and utterly ruined, and is now a moderate utility/support option with no real damage potential, and frankly the less said about main-pistol the better. Personally, I believe that main-pistol needs to be completely, ground-up reworked to not completely fail at everything, but in the interim, the rifle would provide a powerful option for Thieves at a distance – and furthermore, since a specialization would also potentially replace the lackluster Steal option with something less melee-centric (and lackluster), the Rifle could be used to compliment a new distance-friendly class mechanic.

It fills kitten in the class neatly, it fits well with the overall theme/feel of the class (or could be made to do so, anyways), and the alternatives are either not very sensical (Focus Thieves…woo?) or have already been covered, a’la Mace.

I can’t really think of a better option for Thieves than gaining the rifle they bloody well ought to’ve had from the start.

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

killshot is exactly that, except without stealth to make it OP.

i just don’t get why people want a sniper so much. thief is already stacked to hell and back with burst weapons. in fact, there is exactly one option for thief that doesn’t involve berserker gear, and it’s a condi bunker that only works well in WvW roaming.

if we do get a rifle (sigh), then i hope it fills a niche we don’t have. P/D is ranged condi, P/P is ranged DPS and it has CC as well, and shortbow is one of the best utility weapons in the game, regardless of profession.

BrunoBRS.5178:

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

killshot is exactly that, except without stealth to make it OP.

Rifle warrior is dead and useless.

Scoobaniec.9561:

BrunoBRS.5178:

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

killshot is exactly that, except without stealth to make it OP.

Rifle warrior is dead and useless.

which is exactly what a sniper thief would be, because melee DPS > ranged DPS, especially single target.

what thief needs is a new playstyle, not yet another “single target burst” weapon.

BrunoBRS.5178:

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

They’re more like Musketmen than Snipers. They’re missing the “coolness” factor.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BrunoBRS.5178:

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

They’re more like Musketmen than Snipers. They’re missing the “coolness” factor.

they have a long casting, rooted, long range, massive damage skill. it’s the definition of a sniper shot.

engis are closer to musketmen, since their rifles behave more like shotguns.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Scoobaniec.9561:

BrunoBRS.5178:

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

killshot is exactly that, except without stealth to make it OP.

Rifle warrior is dead and useless.

which is exactly what a sniper thief would be, because melee DPS > ranged DPS, especially single target.

what thief needs is a new playstyle, not yet another “single target burst” weapon.

And what new playstyle would that be, O Bruno?

Disruptive Mace stunlocks? Roll S/P, you already have all the stuns in Creation.

Heavy-deeps Axe cleave? The warrior has, like, four options for heavy-deeps cleave, Axe or otherwise, and what self-respecting master of infiltration, sabotage, and assassination goes after people with an axe?

Longbow? Basically Shortbow + 300 range? No thanks, ArenaNet’s already ruined shortbow once, don’t need them doing it again.

We have a new game, a new area, new enemies, new challenges. Who’s to say that ranged DPS will still be awful? Perhaps ArenaNet will finally start putting enemies in the game you don’t want to go face-to-crotch with at all times. Besides. Perhaps folks just want to play what’s cool, and a Thief with a rifle would be pretty fuzzy-kitten cool.

I think rifle will be VERY powerful, but initiative and casting time insanely decrease the effectivity( think double damage and time kill shot). But, who knows? Could bring in more traps.

BrunoBRS.5178:

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

killshot is exactly that, except without stealth to make it OP.

i just don’t get why people want a sniper so much. thief is already stacked to hell and back with burst weapons. in fact, there is exactly one option for thief that doesn’t involve berserker gear, and it’s a condi bunker that only works well in WvW roaming.

if we do get a rifle (sigh), then i hope it fills a niche we don’t have. P/D is ranged condi, P/P is ranged DPS and it has CC as well, and shortbow is one of the best utility weapons in the game, regardless of profession.

Warriors are marksmen. Marksmen use weapons designed for close range combat up to around 300 meters and provide cover fire.

Snipers use high powered rifles that are meant to kill targets at up to a kilometer. They also have to determine the best vantage point and secondary points to move to if they are detected. With thief being sneaky, it would make sense for thief to have a Sniper specialisation.

And if thieves are going to have rifles, it will most likely be long range and powerful simply because it’ll feel like a warrior copy which will go against the design philosophy between the professions. But people want it because they expect that it would feel like playing as a real sniper, not a rifle warrior.

Hmmmm Sniper could be really cool done right.

I imagine a burst damage driven character. Most abilities are simply ways to do minor damage, dodge incoming damage and control enemies to keep them away. Then, perhpas an “aim gauge” could build up to a shot that would likely one shot the average enemy. So their normal DPS sucks, but is balanced by a huge one shot attack.

On reflection that’s a lot like the adrenaline bar though.

That said, I’d just like a new rifle character XD my love of sniping in other games kinda carries over.

I’m actually a great fan of this as it would encourage the use of traps. I know if I was to build a rifle build thief that was focusing as a sniper, I’d probably run at least 2 traps with a shadowstep for escape, or possible 3 traps with one of those being the teleport one that I can’t think of the name of at this point. Combine that with a dagger off-hand offset of weapon and you could teleport, dagger 5, and run like hell to escape danger.

BrunoBRS.5178:

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

I’m not having the best day, but this made me chuckle.

Thief sniper would be awesome. Just for RP sake.

Maybe 2500 range with mediocre damage and can’t shoot within 500 range, but MASSIVE crit damage and condi(on damage) with 1.5 sec standard shot casting time and unable to move. 2 slot is piercing shot, which has 70%+ 10% of you regular crit chance, chance of crit and 2 sec cast time. 3 slot is careful shot, which is undodge-able and unblockable with 3 sec cast time. Blunt shot, which knocks them back, also cripples. Next would tp you back and make you invisible.

Well Snipers were sharpshooters that would pick off important targets during combat, not uncommonly from a hidden position. So it does fit more with Thief.
And Thieves may have a lot of burst weapons, which seems almost endemic to a profession that is essentially hit n run.

What Thief does not have is a long range mode of combat, something beyond 900 range. A particular niche they are missing.
Something to consider is that Thieves’ might not use initiative anymore in their specialization, if arenanet really puts their money where their mouth is and gives specializations different class mechanics.

The thief specialization will likely replace initiative with another profession mechanic. Even if the new weapon is a rifle, the new profession mechanic will say more about the specialization’s playstyle than the weapon will.

ITT Thieves drooling at their favourite profession being even more frustrating and unfair to others, which I guess is fine. You guys do realize that giving long range attacks like this to a profession with plenty of escape tools, including stealth and long range teleports is just asking for trouble, right? We finally have people overcoming their dread and joining PvP more, and a lot of people want Anet to actively kitten on that. Meh.

But, considering casting time, and loosing certain skills and unable to move while casting, escape can be limited

Iv’e found it funny that people think there is confirmed thief sniper, even though the character in the trailer could have very easily just been an Engineer. Incoming thief mace!

Just going with the if the

I think mace is most likely, as a club is often standard gear with thieves; however, I’m not entirely sure what thief specialization will be, even with mace.

Lazaar.9123:

Iv’e found it funny that people think there is confirmed thief sniper, even though the character in the trailer could have very easily just been an Engineer. Incoming thief mace!

I certainly don’t think it’s confirmed, and a thief with a mace is more than possible. Many people are probably presuming the rifle as the new weapon due to the old concept art from what was speculated to be a gunner profession.

https://celestialkitsune.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/guild-wars-2-concept-art_00041.jpg

Moo.3408:

But, considering casting time, and loosing certain skills and unable to move while casting, escape can be limited

My point is, we both know that. History has shown that if the required skill cap for entry is raised with crap like this, the Joe Average™ will not stay in PvP. I partake in these discussions to voice my concern over suggested breaking changes. I’m a strong proponent of PvP, and while I have to admit the current balance is far from ideal, it’s still the best we have. I don’t want stirring of the pot, especially not in a way that is potentially one-sided and drives away people from the queues.

Implementing stuff like this is rife for abuse, and we both know that’s exactly what would happen. You can see the results of optimism and “…but it has a cast time and [insert your favorite here]..” only leads to Korean MMO-style PvP where one-shotting = skill. The western market is different and it is my sincerest hope that we can have an alive PvP community in the west too.

EDIT: However, if this is a PvE-only specialization then I’m 100% backing rifle for the Thief. We all know how mediocre the Shortbow is. So tl;dr: Absolutely no for PvP, but thumbs up for PvE only specialization.

Thanks.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BrunoBRS.5178:

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

They’re more like Musketmen than Snipers. They’re missing the “coolness” factor.

they have a long casting, rooted, long range, massive damage skill. it’s the definition of a sniper shot.

engis are closer to musketmen, since their rifles behave more like shotguns.

Musket and shotgun are two very different type of weapon. One is spread that can hit multiple targets, the other is mostly single target.

As for ranges;
Pistol is close range.
Musket/Shotgun is mid-range.
Sniper Rifle is long range.

You can see prototypes of the sniper rifle already in game. You’ll see them when you adventure in Ascalon. There is a tower there with sniper rifle installments where you can snipe Ogres and their pets.

Lazaar.9123:

Iv’e found it funny that people think there is confirmed thief sniper, even though the character in the trailer could have very easily just been an Engineer. Incoming thief mace!

I’m honestly curious; what, precisely, does the mace do that one of the sword sets doesn’t already cover? If you’re looking for a disruptive, controlling ‘club ’em upside the back of the head!’ set, I honestly can’t think of a better way to do that than S/P. It’s the reason I’m always a little confused when I see people arguing so hard for mace on Thieves – and so hard against rifle.

I get that the PvP guys don’t want Thieves to gain anything that would make them actually viable in PvP…but frankly, I despise PvP in games like this for a variety of reasons and generally argue from the perspective of general PvE and similar content. I’m not seeing how the mace could do things the sword sets don’t already cover in spades. If you know what those things are, I would really appreciate being clued in.

My method of handling a thief sniper would probably be to have the sniping shot be something that can only be fired from stealth… and which roots and has a 2second windup time (once initiated, it still executes if you destealth while firing). So if you know roughly where a sniper is, you can beat up on them while they’re aiming.

Other skills would probably include a high-Initiative stealth skill, a mobility skill, and a bunch of skills based on the idea of knowing where to shoot someone to achieve a particular effect – possibly also with roots and aim times. One-shot kills are certainly not something that I would expect to see, from stealth or otherwise.

As a specialisation, ArenaNet could potentially take away from some of the thief’s other escape skills to avoid the sniper from just being able to disappear off once it is located. Alternatively, it could be balanced by the sniper being so obsessed with accuracy that EVERY rifle shot has a root and a windup time. Having good escape options when not shooting would then be a counterbalance to being unable to move and deal damage simultaneously.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

It fills kitten in the class neatly, it fits well with the overall theme/feel of the class (or could be made to do so, anyways), and the alternatives are either not very sensical (Focus Thieves…woo?) or have already been covered, a’la Mace.

Now that you mention it, a focus thief could actually work quite well as an assassin specialisation. The GW1 assassins had a few spells they could throw around that the thief hasn’t picked up – a focus offhand could be a means of reintroducing a more magical assassin-type.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Scoobaniec.9561:

BrunoBRS.5178:

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

killshot is exactly that, except without stealth to make it OP.

Rifle warrior is dead and useless.

which is exactly what a sniper thief would be, because melee DPS > ranged DPS, especially single target.

what thief needs is a new playstyle, not yet another “single target burst” weapon.

And what new playstyle would that be, O Bruno?

Disruptive Mace stunlocks? Roll S/P, you already have all the stuns in Creation.

Heavy-deeps Axe cleave? The warrior has, like, four options for heavy-deeps cleave, Axe or otherwise, and what self-respecting master of infiltration, sabotage, and assassination goes after people with an axe?

Longbow? Basically Shortbow + 300 range? No thanks, ArenaNet’s already ruined shortbow once, don’t need them doing it again.

We have a new game, a new area, new enemies, new challenges. Who’s to say that ranged DPS will still be awful? Perhaps ArenaNet will finally start putting enemies in the game you don’t want to go face-to-crotch with at all times. Besides. Perhaps folks just want to play what’s cool, and a Thief with a rifle would be pretty fuzzy-kitten cool.

you know what thief still doesn’t have? AoE. like, proper AoE, not cluster bomb. that’s the weakest aspect of the thief in terms of weapon coverage right now. we have CC in pistol offhand, we have melee cleave, we have single target burst, and we have utility dispensers (if you think shortbow is bad, you’re not really a thief).

and as someone pointed out, giving a profession like thief, who has a crapton of escapes, teleports, stealths and happens to be the one profession with the ability to use the same weapon skill several times, a weapon that can deal massive damage from long range… yeah, because screw balance.

i’d give it 1 day for thief QQ threads to triple (and believe me, they’re volumous enough as it is).

DevilLordLaser.8619:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Scoobaniec.9561:

BrunoBRS.5178:

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

killshot is exactly that, except without stealth to make it OP.

Rifle warrior is dead and useless.

which is exactly what a sniper thief would be, because melee DPS > ranged DPS, especially single target.

what thief needs is a new playstyle, not yet another “single target burst” weapon.

And what new playstyle would that be, O Bruno?

Fair point but you didn’t have to be so condescending about it.

Disruptive Mace stunlocks? Roll S/P, you already have all the stuns in Creation.

• I agree, but I can see Mace being used otherwise, the Scepter shows that a weapon does not fit the same niche regardless of class.*

Heavy-deeps Axe cleave? The warrior has, like, four options for heavy-deeps cleave, Axe or otherwise, and what self-respecting master of infiltration, sabotage, and assassination goes after people with an axe?

• Jack the Ripper comes to mind…*

Longbow? Basically Shortbow + 300 range? No thanks, ArenaNet’s already ruined shortbow once, don’t need them doing it again.

Longbow doesn’t strike me as something a thief would use in the first place.

We have a new game, a new area, new enemies, new challenges. Who’s to say that ranged DPS will still be awful? Perhaps ArenaNet will finally start putting enemies in the game you don’t want to go face-to-crotch with at all times. Besides. Perhaps folks just want to play what’s cool, and a Thief with a rifle would be pretty fuzzy-kitten cool.

Who’s to say that rifle will be a Long Range weapon in the first place? Half of the classes who use them use them at <600 range anyway. I see Thief using it more as a Carbine or a Sub-machine gun. Something to pop out of no-where, blitz quick and get some distance before their hurt can be returned.

What the class -needs- is a solid Condi weapon. We can see already that its not meant to have a great deal of distance.

Thieves are fine with condi, main hand pistol and you’re set. Also, let’s not forget, most likely the base thief won’t get to use the new weapon, rather just the specialization. As it stands there’ still much of the assassin they could still pick up. Mace actually would fit really well for some specializations. And actually yeah, an offhand focus could work too really. If they do get a rifle, maybe they’ll lose stealth skills in the process. who knows.

Silly thought…

Could the pistol be fixed by rebalancing it as a pure power weapon (similar to how warrior rifle was) while thief rifle becomes more of a supporting condition weapon?

Since I think that’s ultimately the main issue with the pistol – in all other respects it feels like a power weapon (regardless of what offhand you get all it has is bleeding from skill 1 – the best you can do to turn it into a condition weapon is combining it with dagger to get more Sneak Attacks off), except that the autoattack is condition based. A two-handed weapon like a rifle could then be balanced as a condition weapon without worrying about how it might interact with offhands.

It would also make it more counterable – instead of being able to do burst damage, it would at best have burst conditions, giving the target a bit more of an ability to respond.

What would be awesome is if with rifle thief, the “steal” mechanic is removed, and instead of stealing with f1, you are changed to a first-person mode where the player can pew-pew manually.

Oakwind.6187:

Moo.3408:

But, considering casting time, and loosing certain skills and unable to move while casting, escape can be limited

My point is, we both know that. History has shown that if the required skill cap for entry is raised with crap like this, the Joe Average™ will not stay in PvP. I partake in these discussions to voice my concern over suggested breaking changes. I’m a strong proponent of PvP, and while I have to admit the current balance is far from ideal, it’s still the best we have. I don’t want stirring of the pot, especially not in a way that is potentially one-sided and drives away people from the queues.

Implementing stuff like this is rife for abuse, and we both know that’s exactly what would happen. You can see the results of optimism and “…but it has a cast time and [insert your favorite here]..” only leads to Korean MMO-style PvP where one-shotting = skill. The western market is different and it is my sincerest hope that we can have an alive PvP community in the west too.

EDIT: However, if this is a PvE-only specialization then I’m 100% backing rifle for the Thief. We all know how mediocre the Shortbow is. So tl;dr: Absolutely no for PvP, but thumbs up for PvE only specialization.

Thanks.

If they do it correctly, it will be both great and mediocre in PvP. You know how people use only one weapon set even when they can use two? Well, this wouldn’t be one, because it isn’t meant to be a 1v1 main weapon, just a starter and possibly a finisher(if they run) .Because if it has long cast time, people have tps, evade, invuln, etc to stop you from spam killing. But in team PvP, it can be main snipe, and just pick them apart.
By the way, NO one shots possible (hopefully)

People are thinking too narrowly. Who says a rifle Thief is going to deal crazy high damage?

Yes, I know, the title of the thread is Thief + Rifle = Sniper. The Thief needs additional ranged damage options (yes, the shortbow is excellent for utility work. It still does crap damage and has lost much of its place in PvE since the butt-ruination of Lotus Poison), but that doesn’t necessarily mean Boom-Headshot all the way.

I can already think of a means by which the Thief could differentiate its rifle from the competition. No Kill Shot-style big-damage attack – do Heart Shot instead. Big init skill (6 comes to mind, but may need adjustment either way) which deals moderate-at-best power damage, but also inflicts a 10-deep stack of Bleed for 3s or whatever turns out to be balanced. A short, very intense Bleed favoring Malice over Power, and configure the rest of the rifle to correspond to that. Suddenly the Rifle isn’t a boom-headshot threat, but is instead a very serious condition threat. Well, in game modes where conditions matter. Still waiting for ArenaNet to give players their own unique instances of various condition stacks on a boss so we can stop losing damage to caps.

Don’t like that notion? A’ight. Go control or support instead. Give the rifle cripples, immobilizes, dazes…basically like P/P except good. Perhaps its calling card could be a big-init knock skill, the first knock the Thief has beyond its utilities.

Who knows? I’d honestly prefer something along the lines of the Heart Shot style myself, simply because it’d be a novel thing to do and a good way to differentiate it from the Warrior’s rifle (Power-based marksman weapon w/very little support in the rest of the class) and the Engineer’s rifle (almost completely nonfunctional as a weapon).

I would love to be able to make a rifle-centric character as I enjoy rifles, and indeed my oldest character in GW2 is a Warrior I’d intended to play as rifle-centric. Unfortunately the Warrior is bad at being a rifle-centric character and the Engineer’s rifle is a schizophrenic joke. Maybe we’ll get it right this time. Third time’s a charm after all, eh?

Maybe not a sniper, but a scout is what the specialization would be. Perhaps a medium-sustained-damage, long range, single target weapon as opposed to SB which is a low(ish) damage, medium range, multitarget, utility weapon. perhaps it will be excellent at debuffing single targets for the team (or themselves) to burst down.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

People are thinking too narrowly. Who says a rifle Thief is going to deal crazy high damage?

Yes, I know, the title of the thread is Thief + Rifle = Sniper. The Thief needs additional ranged damage options (yes, the shortbow is excellent for utility work. It still does crap damage and has lost much of its place in PvE since the butt-ruination of Lotus Poison), but that doesn’t necessarily mean Boom-Headshot all the way.

I can already think of a means by which the Thief could differentiate its rifle from the competition. No Kill Shot-style big-damage attack – do Heart Shot instead. Big init skill (6 comes to mind, but may need adjustment either way) which deals moderate-at-best power damage, but also inflicts a 10-deep stack of Bleed for 3s or whatever turns out to be balanced. A short, very intense Bleed favoring Malice over Power, and configure the rest of the rifle to correspond to that. Suddenly the Rifle isn’t a boom-headshot threat, but is instead a very serious condition threat. Well, in game modes where conditions matter. Still waiting for ArenaNet to give players their own unique instances of various condition stacks on a boss so we can stop losing damage to caps.

Don’t like that notion? A’ight. Go control or support instead. Give the rifle cripples, immobilizes, dazes…basically like P/P except good. Perhaps its calling card could be a big-init knock skill, the first knock the Thief has beyond its utilities.

Who knows? I’d honestly prefer something along the lines of the Heart Shot style myself, simply because it’d be a novel thing to do and a good way to differentiate it from the Warrior’s rifle (Power-based marksman weapon w/very little support in the rest of the class) and the Engineer’s rifle (almost completely nonfunctional as a weapon).

I would love to be able to make a rifle-centric character as I enjoy rifles, and indeed my oldest character in GW2 is a Warrior I’d intended to play as rifle-centric. Unfortunately the Warrior is bad at being a rifle-centric character and the Engineer’s rifle is a schizophrenic joke. Maybe we’ll get it right this time. Third time’s a charm after all, eh?

Maybe it will be blind confusion( high stacked confusion) type. Works well with a hidden sniper. Maybe extra tps and the hide in plain sight for thief. Exp.
Imagine going up to a capture point in PvP. You get hit and are blinded and confused heavily. You waste an attack, then he stealths and tps to another location and this is repeated with different variations.
Also you could have a torment attack so when they try to find you they take extra damage. Also you could get poison from rusty musket balls.

I’d just like to see ArenaNet start implementing hold-to-channel types of skills like Sniper Shot from Snowball Mayhem, and this (hopefully confirmed) Specialization would be a fine place to start adding some regardless of whether it favors Power or Condition damage.

I’m probably dreaming but even converting old skills to work this way would be nice (Meteor Storm comes to mind, but any skills with a long cast-time could work).

DevilLordLaser.8619:

I get that the PvP guys don’t want Thieves to gain anything that would make them actually viable in PvP…but frankly, I despise PvP in games like this for a variety of reasons and generally argue from the perspective of general PvE and similar content. I’m not seeing how the mace could do things the sword sets don’t already cover in spades. If you know what those things are, I would really appreciate being clued in.

QFT like seriously.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Lazaar.9123:

Iv’e found it funny that people think there is confirmed thief sniper, even though the character in the trailer could have very easily just been an Engineer. Incoming thief mace!

I’m honestly curious; what, precisely, does the mace do that one of the sword sets doesn’t already cover? If you’re looking for a disruptive, controlling ‘club ’em upside the back of the head!’ set, I honestly can’t think of a better way to do that than S/P. It’s the reason I’m always a little confused when I see people arguing so hard for mace on Thieves – and so hard against rifle.

I get that the PvP guys don’t want Thieves to gain anything that would make them actually viable in PvP…but frankly, I despise PvP in games like this for a variety of reasons and generally argue from the perspective of general PvE and similar content. I’m not seeing how the mace could do things the sword sets don’t already cover in spades. If you know what those things are, I would really appreciate being clued in.

Where was any of the latter put in my post? I was pointing out the fact that people are getting their hopes up too much when it could easily just be an engineer. Sure are jumping the gun on your responses, aren’t you?

Moo, that doesn’t sound op at all.
actually BladeRain, if it worked like that, I’d be ok with that.

Take a step back and consider something with me. Why are we talking as if “Thief + Rifle = Sniper”? There are several problems with this framing.

Talking as if “Ranger + Staff = Druid” is erroneous for the druid specialization. The druid specialization of ranger will gain access to staff weapon skills, but use of the staff does not make the ranger a druid. The druid specialization can make use of the staff, while a base ranger cannot. And some of the 6-10 skills will also change as result. We don’t know how a druid will play differently from a ranger.

Right now, people are multiplying assumptions by assuming that the thief specialization unlocks the rifle and will be a sniper. While it’s possible that the thief specialization will be able to use a rifle, we don’t know the capacity in which it will. We don’t even know how a druid will use a staff yet.

yolo swaggins.2570:

BrunoBRS.5178:

you want a sniper? roll a rifle warrior.

killshot is exactly that, except without stealth to make it OP.

i just don’t get why people want a sniper so much. thief is already stacked to hell and back with burst weapons. in fact, there is exactly one option for thief that doesn’t involve berserker gear, and it’s a condi bunker that only works well in WvW roaming.

if we do get a rifle (sigh), then i hope it fills a niche we don’t have. P/D is ranged condi, P/P is ranged DPS and it has CC as well, and shortbow is one of the best utility weapons in the game, regardless of profession.

Warriors are marksmen. Marksmen use weapons designed for close range combat up to around 300 meters and provide cover fire.

Snipers use high powered rifles that are meant to kill targets at up to a kilometer. They also have to determine the best vantage point and secondary points to move to if they are detected. With thief being sneaky, it would make sense for thief to have a Sniper specialisation.

And if thieves are going to have rifles, it will most likely be long range and powerful simply because it’ll feel like a warrior copy which will go against the design philosophy between the professions. But people want it because they expect that it would feel like playing as a real sniper, not a rifle warrior.

Well they did talk about Specializations in the same breath of dual classes. So makes sense for e thief rifle specialization to be similar to Warrior, or a Thief/Warrior dual profession of sorts. Hey this give me an idea for a thread!!!

We know druid gets staff, but most everything else is speculation.

draxynnic.3719:

Silly thought…

Could the pistol be fixed by rebalancing it as a pure power weapon (similar to how warrior rifle was) while thief rifle becomes more of a supporting condition weapon?

Since I think that’s ultimately the main issue with the pistol – in all other respects it feels like a power weapon (regardless of what offhand you get all it has is bleeding from skill 1 – the best you can do to turn it into a condition weapon is combining it with dagger to get more Sneak Attacks off), except that the autoattack is condition based. A two-handed weapon like a rifle could then be balanced as a condition weapon without worrying about how it might interact with offhands.

It would also make it more counterable – instead of being able to do burst damage, it would at best have burst conditions, giving the target a bit more of an ability to respond.

but see, P/D has shadow strike, which is a condi attack as well. turning the whole P/D playstyle into power (essentially screwing up anyone that currently plays it) isn’t the way to go. it would be like turning ranger shortbow into a power weapon overnight. entire chunks of the playerbase would have to obtain all their gear again just to go back to playing what they enjoyed.

the solution would have to be making unload something completely different. maybe turn P/P into a hybrid set, god knows thieves don’t have hybrid options.

personally, if we must get a rifle, i’d like to see it be more of an AoE projectile weapon. i thought this concept would apply better to crossbows, but since we aren’t getting that, then we could get it on a rifle.

the idea being that you don’t ground target the AoEs, but they happen at the spot the projectile hits something (think engineer pistol 1). that would give thief much needed ranged AoE, the one thing that isn’t in the profession’s repertoire as of now (don’t pretend cluster bomb is used as a ranged skill). from there, they could do whatever they wanted, for all i care, except another zerk burst weapon.

Shiren.9532:

Belzebu.3912:

We can more than dream, I think that it will actually happen.

The norn with heritage medium armor in the HoT trailer holding a rifle is a thief imo.

Why do people assume a medium armour class character wielding a rifle is a thief and not, what is arguably the most common rifle user in the game, an engineer?

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but wouldn’t the simpler conclusion be that it’s an engineer? Is there something specific which indicates it’s not? This is like seeing a light armour class wielding a sword and assuming necros get a sword.

1.) What would an engineer need throwing daggers for?
2.) The vid was meant to show a little of what was coming for each profession. Why would a vid like this show something a profession already has instead?
3.) Engi is already getting a hammer.

Warriors are the snipers dont need a class with perma stealth sniping to :/

Killface.1896:

Warriors are the snipers dont need a class with perma stealth sniping to :/

They are marksmen. Big difference. And it would be completely redundant to have 2 warrior-rifle-types in this game.

BrunoBRS.5178:

draxynnic.3719:

Silly thought…

Could the pistol be fixed by rebalancing it as a pure power weapon (similar to how warrior rifle was) while thief rifle becomes more of a supporting condition weapon?

Since I think that’s ultimately the main issue with the pistol – in all other respects it feels like a power weapon (regardless of what offhand you get all it has is bleeding from skill 1 – the best you can do to turn it into a condition weapon is combining it with dagger to get more Sneak Attacks off), except that the autoattack is condition based. A two-handed weapon like a rifle could then be balanced as a condition weapon without worrying about how it might interact with offhands.

It would also make it more counterable – instead of being able to do burst damage, it would at best have burst conditions, giving the target a bit more of an ability to respond.

but see, P/D has shadow strike, which is a condi attack as well. turning the whole P/D playstyle into power (essentially screwing up anyone that currently plays it) isn’t the way to go. it would be like turning ranger shortbow into a power weapon overnight. entire chunks of the playerbase would have to obtain all their gear again just to go back to playing what they enjoyed.

the solution would have to be making unload something completely different. maybe turn P/P into a hybrid set, god knows thieves don’t have hybrid options.

A bit like how I made a rifle with condition damage for my warrior (in the name of conserving blood supplies for other uses) and then pretty much right after I had that rifle soulbound ArenaNet announced the change to a purely power-based weapon.

I’d forgotten that Torment got added to Shadow Strike, but even then, there isn’t really a condition damage offhand. Could do it either way, I guess.

(Mind you, I do think pistol does get a bit of a bad rap in general – it’s really not that kitteningle-target ranged goes.)

yolo swaggins.2570:

1.) What would an engineer need throwing daggers for?
2.) The vid was meant to show a little of what was coming for each profession. Why would a vid like this show something a profession already has instead?
3.) Engi is already getting a hammer.

1.) There’s nothing stopping you from putting armour with a more thief/ranger theme on an engineer. In fact, it’s probably easier than trying to find something more engineer-y, and those ‘daggers’ could be interpreted as being files and other engineering tools.
2.) They’ve shown a little bit of what is coming for some professions, but I don’t think they felt that they had to show ALL of them, or that we can assume that they’ve eschewed ALL of the old stuff. For instance, at around 1:05 you see what looks to me like a heavy sylvari with sword and shield, and a heavy human with hammer. Given that both heavy armour professions also have access to both, there’s nothing new there.
3.) Engis already have a rifle, so engineer having a rifle may well be nothing new (see response 2) ), but it’s certainly not invalidated by engineers already having their new weapon known.

In general:

Where is this supposed thief with a rifle? My best guess is that people are looking at the norn at roughly 1:05, but there’s nothing about him that I see that points to him not being an engineer. Heck, it may even be the same character – albeit in different equipment – that shows off the engineer hammer later in the trailer.