-Multiplayer based content for character development. AKA Hero points.
-Vertical Maps.
-Power Creeped Elite Classes.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: AliamRationem.5172
I disagree on points one and two.
The vertical maps are simply amazing and many players love them. There is no reason they should be excluded entirely from the next expansion.
As for HPs, again there is no reason group challenges should be excluded entirely. Many of us enjoy running HP trains and have made a lot of friends helping other players out with these challenges. Further, there are plenty of solo options for players who prefer to pursue them. I can agree that perhaps there should be more of them available for such players.
Stop being childish. This game is not based on only one type of person getting everything they want to the exclusion of everyone else.
I like most of the HP in HoT, and I like the vertical maps, so I would like to see content like that return. I will say however that I think there should be enough HP that are soloable to complete the elite spec _provided you have a few dozen HP – ~150 HP left over from core tyria/HoT HPs. You shouldn’t need a group to complete an elite spec, but for general map completion in the new zone its fine by me.
As for vertical maps. Love them! Especially VB. It quickly became my favorite map to navigate in HoT after unlocking advanced gliding! I do want to stay away from the mess that was TD. But if we do get another complicated map, I insist that the minimap can correctly distinguish between the different levels on the map much more effectively than it does for TD. Because honestly the minimap is the worst part of navigating TD imo. It will look like something is on the same level as I am according to the map, but really I was supposed to go underground or to the level above me halfway across the kittening map. That is a minimap that actively hinders your ability to explore.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Soggy Biscuit.9372
A painfully long-kitten boss fight the entirety of which you need to redo every time you wipe because of one of a few dozen crappy kitten random bugs. Other than that and annoying major NPCs, I don’t have a lot of complaints.
> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content
> vertocallitynwas a mechanic to use your gliding for and makes maps a lot larger than they appear on the map = good
> no opinion on this, I think the elites ure useful. But not necessarily required, in fact, I thought some elite specs to be a downgrade on my playstyle
A painfully long-kitten boss fight the entirety of which you need to redo every time you wipe because of one of a few dozen crappy kitten random bugs. Other than that and annoying major NPCs, I don’t have a lot of complaints.
Afaik there are no bugs left in the mawdreyfight, sure there should never have been any, but be honest, theyre fixed so whats the point in complaining about that now
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: vesica tempestas.1563
Greatest single thing i would like to see is maps that are >= twice the size of current maps.
A painfully long-kitten boss fight the entirety of which you need to redo every time you wipe because of one of a few dozen crappy kitten random bugs. Other than that and annoying major NPCs, I don’t have a lot of complaints.
Afaik there are no bugs left in the mawdreyfight, sure there should never have been any, but be honest, theyre fixed so whats the point in complaining about that now
Been doing that fight recently. There’s still bugs. NPC can get stuck idle. Not that big of a deal, but if you go down it would be nice to count on Brahm rezzing you, but I guess he’s still kittened off about the mommy issues I gave him.
Air spouts don’t 100% work. I run through some and never get airborne.
Biggest issue for me is last glide phase. If you enter that phase when he’s still doing the ring attack it will knock you out of the sky everytime even though he’s not at the center of the ring. He’s left that spot to go to the center and throw rocks, but his ring attack is still going without him in it. That’s happened to me about 3 times now.
It’s much, much, much better than it was. I’ve completed it on other alts without these problems, but for whatever reason these other issues pop up. I’d say it’s fixed mostly but still needs a little TLC.
Air spouts don’t 100% work. I run through some and never get airborne.
Biggest issue for me is last glide phase. If you enter that phase when he’s still doing the ring attack it will knock you out of the sky everytime even though he’s not at the center of the ring. He’s left that spot to go to the center and throw rocks, but his ring attack is still going without him in it. That’s happened to me about 3 times now.
Sounds like you’re lagging through them. Personally, I’ve done it around 20 times now without a problem, even with the ring during the phase. I just use whichever updraft is closest and hover over it, gliding back and forth so the rocks are thrown away from me.
They need a balance of map types, some with big events some without.
I would also say they would need another 2 elite specs out so hopefully we will get more than one build people look for.
-Multiplayer based content for character development. AKA Hero points.
-Vertical Maps.
-Power Creeped Elite Classes.
The vertical maps aren’t the root issue. It’s that you can’t tell what level you’re on without stopping and checking the map. Further, even that (checking the map) is grossly limited.
But the most important problem is that you can’t tell how to go up or down. You can be standing right over an icon, and not be able to find a way up or down to it.
There needs to be an up/down signaling system. Like the icons for stairs and elevators in the big cities. Or, some kind of color-coding or shading showing where tunnels and vertical movement points are. Just marking the bouncing mushrooms on the map would be a start.
They may have learned their lesson, since all of the Season 3 content has been on normal maps again.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045
*Things that you (The OP) does not want.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
I disagree on points one and two.
The vertical maps are simply amazing and many players love them. There is no reason they should be excluded entirely from the next expansion.
As for HPs, again there is no reason group challenges should be excluded entirely. Many of us enjoy running HP trains and have made a lot of friends helping other players out with these challenges. Further, there are plenty of solo options for players who prefer to pursue them. I can agree that perhaps there should be more of them available for such players.
Perhaps a compromise could be: on maps where there are group map metas or lots of group events, the HC’s can be soloed, but scale up to be of more challenge to a group. On maps where there are few group events and no map meta, the HC’s will be a mix of group and solo challenges. This would provide a better balance of content types. All of the maps would have more to do for various groups.
On verticality, completionism could require vertical play, but things like Masteries and story should be doable without it. That might also mean we wouldn’t see things like the Mordremoth fight in story frustrating so many when the gliding segment bugged.
1. its an mmo like are you for real? they said so many times that the jungle is challenging the enemies there aren’t a cake walk and you should be extra happy when see other ppl that try to get the same thing as you and that i really like it tried to break the “play together alone mentality the game has”
2. this was 1 of the biggest pros of the expac they took the exploration aspect of gw2 and multiplied its awesomeness.(if the next expac was idd crystal desert i would die for like a huge desert map with a massive cave system underground it, all in all more vertical maps pls.
3. sure if they can at least keep the next elite spec in like with how are the current elite specs right now no how they were on release( 66% faster cds xDDDDD) ill be really happy and ofc each elite spec being strong in a diff aerea than then previous while trying to not step onto other base class build’s territory.
-Multiplayer based content for character development. AKA Hero points.
-Vertical Maps.
-Power Creeped Elite Classes.The vertical maps aren’t the root issue. It’s that you can’t tell what level you’re on without stopping and checking the map. Further, even that (checking the map) is grossly limited.
But the most important problem is that you can’t tell how to go up or down. You can be standing right over an icon, and not be able to find a way up or down to it.
There needs to be an up/down signaling system. Like the icons for stairs and elevators in the big cities. Or, some kind of color-coding or shading showing where tunnels and vertical movement points are. Just marking the bouncing mushrooms on the map would be a start.
They may have learned their lesson, since all of the Season 3 content has been on normal maps again.
tbh most of these problems where what ppl faced the first month or two after the expac launched i agree that the various events or current event icon would benefit massively from the arrows that the hero points have ( you know the ^ and down that the icons had depending on your map location) which already exists and the map also brightens the lvl of the map your are on so you can understand where you are and which parts are on the same lvl so not sure what more would you like.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Dashingsteel.3410
The multi-tiered maps suck. The minimap system is no help. Single tier maps are the way to go. Please no more Nintendo in the next expansion.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
tbh most of these problems where what ppl faced the first month or two after the expac launched
Which means that any of the many GW2 players who did not adopt HoT at launch and try it later face not only those issues, but empty maps. The LFG/taxi work-around is not an intuitive means to maybe find the one working map. What kind of an impression does that make?
Imo the experiment to put harder content in open-world maps is a dismal failure. Expecting the average player to not only want to deal with the HoT mobs, but also to need to use a map-loading meta-system that means several maps fail while one map outnumbers the mobs to an easy win was always going to succumb to diminishing returns as the game population moved on to the next new thing. Design that requires one either be on the leading edge to succeed or be aware of/willing to use grouping systems that are not intuitive and often result in frustration and failure is design built for failure as content ages.
I disagree, on pretty much every point. This expansion was the best thing that happened to GW2. And the vertical maps, THE best map design I have ever seen( How you can not like them? is beyond me) I hope the next one will be even more of this. But maybe more balanced elite speccs next time.
I disagree, on pretty much every point. This expansion was the best thing that happened to GW2. And the vertical maps, THE best map design I have ever seen( How you can not like them? is beyond me) I hope the next one will be even more of this. But maybe more balanced elite speccs next time.
It depends on the map though. For a jungle, verticality is perfect. For underwater, the same. For a desert or a savannah or a tundra…not so much. The design of the map should fit the type of environment in my opinion.
For a desert or a savannah or a tundra…not so much.
They could make a vertical design fit anywhere, much like how TD was done, because raised areas and going underground fits anything.
ArenaNet tends to make jerk responses however, so the next expansion will likely be the opposite of HoT, which can already be seen in season 3. Episode 4 should be team bloodstone again, so it should reveal if that was just a preference. If they really are going to the desert, the maps will likely be much larger and flat with barren open space. Considering the rumors and current design, there’ll also likely be fewer waypoints in favor of new means of travel.
> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content
Let me tell you about this little MMO, World of Warcraft, believe it or not you can go from 1 to max lvl and get all skills soloing. I know WoW is not as popular as GW2, but you anet might want to pull a page from their book.
I disagree, on pretty much every point. This expansion was the best thing that happened to GW2. And the vertical maps, THE best map design I have ever seen( How you can not like them? is beyond me) I hope the next one will be even more of this. But maybe more balanced elite speccs next time.
It depends on the map though. For a jungle, verticality is perfect. For underwater, the same. For a desert or a savannah or a tundra…not so much. The design of the map should fit the type of environment in my opinion.
Tundra could have tunnels, savannas could have buried ruins. But in such areas the underground wouldnt be as spacious as a jungle
Jungle is not more inherently appropriate for full verticality than any other environment.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: AliamRationem.5172
> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content
Let me tell you about this little MMO, World of Warcraft, believe it or not you can go from 1 to max lvl and get all skills soloing. I know WoW is not as popular as GW2, but you anet might want to pull a page from their book.
You can get all skills solo here as well. This isn’t a valid argument to make all challenges solo. WoW doesn’t do that either, if you hadn’t noticed. And frankly, GW2 is easily superior in terms of open world content. If you don’t believe that you can take a look at some of the ideas WoW has taken from this game for open world.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: AliamRationem.5172
For a desert or a savannah or a tundra…not so much.
They could make a vertical design fit anywhere, much like how TD was done, because raised areas and going underground fits anything.
ArenaNet tends to make jerk responses however, so the next expansion will likely be the opposite of HoT, which can already be seen in season 3. Episode 4 should be team bloodstone again, so it should reveal if that was just a preference. If they really are going to the desert, the maps will likely be much larger and flat with barren open space. Considering the rumors and current design, there’ll also likely be fewer waypoints in favor of new means of travel.
Here’s hoping we stop getting “flat” maps. That is played out. We have gliders and TD proves you can have the meta carry on in flat areas on a map that is anything but flat. I’m fine with enough personal challenges (HPs, MPs) being made accessible to solo players who have no stomach for exploration, but if the next expansion is nothing but solo play, meta events that require zero organization, and flat terrain with no exploration you can count me out!
> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content
Let me tell you about this little MMO, World of Warcraft, believe it or not you can go from 1 to max lvl and get all skills soloing. I know WoW is not as popular as GW2, but you anet might want to pull a page from their book.
You can get all skills solo here as well. This isn’t a valid argument to make all challenges solo. WoW doesn’t do that either, if you hadn’t noticed. And frankly, GW2 is easily superior in terms of open world content. If you don’t believe that you can take a look at some of the ideas WoW has taken from this game for open world.
Exactly.
And sure, you cant do every hero challenge alone, at least depending on the class. As a mesmer you can bypass the champions by reigning down endless clones.
But im quite sure in WoW you cant do everything solo, at least not without overlevelling first. I remember a Cataclysm event chain that was imposdible to solo from start to end when played at the appropriate level.
In gw2 it is possible, however, to complete all story related content solo, except the core dungeons, and its possibly to get a full elite spec and everything as well.
WoW is no argument for anything, really, different game and different mevhanics. In bith games you can unlock everything and play the game when playing solely solo. Only if you want trophies and fancy gear are teamplay required, and thats optional. In fact, wow is behind gw2 because wow locks some story in dungeons and eaids, which gw2 has only done once before so far, yet (arah, victory or death)
For a desert or a savannah or a tundra…not so much.
They could make a vertical design fit anywhere, much like how TD was done, because raised areas and going underground fits anything.
ArenaNet tends to make jerk responses however, so the next expansion will likely be the opposite of HoT, which can already be seen in season 3. Episode 4 should be team bloodstone again, so it should reveal if that was just a preference. If they really are going to the desert, the maps will likely be much larger and flat with barren open space. Considering the rumors and current design, there’ll also likely be fewer waypoints in favor of new means of travel.
Here’s hoping we stop getting “flat” maps. That is played out. We have gliders and TD proves you can have the meta carry on in flat areas on a map that is anything but flat. I’m fine with enough personal challenges (HPs, MPs) being made accessible to solo players who have no stomach for exploration, but if the next expansion is nothing but solo play, meta events that require zero organization, and flat terrain with no exploration you can count me out!
Flat maps are fine, every once in a while. We shouldnt neglect the gliders, but the gliders shouldnt mean you can get everywhere, either. There should be maps where specific mechanics are required, like maybe Junundu in the Sulphorous Wastes. Sure you can glide.. if you can hold your breath the whole way
I’m fine with enough personal challenges (HPs, MPs) being made accessible to solo players who have no stomach for exploration, but if the next expansion is nothing but solo play, meta events that require zero organization, and flat terrain with no exploration you can count me out!
The original design of the game was that events would draw solo players together to complete group content. In general, the majority of MMO players play solo, which was probably the idea. Season 1 caused everyone to flood the maps, so in response, ArenaNet tried to split people up, which began the new ~4 group split design. The obvious problem with that however was that now 4 to 10x the amount of players were realistically needed, which caused the LFG problem. The harder it is to simply show up and play, the less people will show up and the faster the content is going to die out.
Organization in HoT is not required, unless you consider popping tags and force-filling the map organization. An even distribution of players is all you need. With a better UI, you wouldn’t even need commanders, and splitting the population into lanes/teams could have even been entirely automated, which would have been far more successful, much like WoW’s LFR.
There’s always going to be exploration, because ArenaNet’s always been about that. The maps aren’t going to be flat flat, but don’t expect to see complex multi-layered zones. As shown by HoT pre-launch, people don’t care about the complexity, what they’re going to focus on is how many zones and how big they are on the map, because they’re going to compare it with what the competition offers. That’s probably why they went with a new zone for every episode, because the lack of them was one of the common complaints.
Hero challenges should be completely redone imo, changing them from simple events to 1vs1 hero challenges; basically skill tests and played out like adventures. It would be an easy way to teach and test players, rather than letting people continue to effortlessly zerg without consequence. They’d still need an alternative however, such as paying gold to win, because they can’t risk blocking progression.
I wouldn’t be surprised if masteries as they are end up being scrapped. Core masteries that are actually needed should be through simple leveling, whereas points are for the more cosmetic ones. The problem is, with no direction, people can turn masteries into a nearly impossible grind instead of the casual experience it can be. Personally, I would preferred something more like a character-based level cap increase, like if HoT offered 20 HoT-specific mastery levels and enemies were level 80 + mastery level.
tbh most of these problems where what ppl faced the first month or two after the expac launched
Which means that any of the many GW2 players who did not adopt HoT at launch and try it later face not only those issues, but empty maps. The LFG/taxi work-around is not an intuitive means to maybe find the one working map. What kind of an impression does that make?
Imo the experiment to put harder content in open-world maps is a dismal failure. Expecting the average player to not only want to deal with the HoT mobs, but also to need to use a map-loading meta-system that means several maps fail while one map outnumbers the mobs to an easy win was always going to succumb to diminishing returns as the game population moved on to the next new thing. Design that requires one either be on the leading edge to succeed or be aware of/willing to use grouping systems that are not intuitive and often result in frustration and failure is design built for failure as content ages.
Thats not a map design issue this could easily be fixed if anet would ever bring back the old channel system from gw1 where you could see the maps and if they are full or not and accordingly join one also i joined the expac around when the second raid wing released and i didnt have much trouble getting all the hero points and completing the the maps either solo or with friends or just by being smart against certain situations.
They captured the feeling of what an alien and unknown to us territory should feel like the first time we encounter it whenever is that time for someone at first it should be hard and challenging and now its doable/soloable and does not require groups of ppl to pull off.
Leading edge to succeed? lul if you say someone need to be good at the game and on end gear to pull off the content they you are mistaken as far as the most hp go you can easily solo them as far as you teak your build to deal dmg and from there even exotics will do fine.
The maps are group finding freindly because they were meta heavy nd that to some lvl was a bit too much its good to see that with the new maps they take a break from glorified meta chains but idd like them to go back to taht for the next expac tho since it gives memorable moments as well as the feel of epicness while it shows the multiplayer asspect the best. Also meta maps thend to be te more lively and active which is a good thing.
One more thing the “difficult content on open world maps” wasnt an exririment it was an long time standing request by the players who were able to one sot everything oen world in the game wihout a problem.The only isssue i find is that they shold have worked on the difficulty scaling on each lvl scale map better so the transition would be more natural, but should we feel like its was a msitake no hell no its goo to see things get harder the payoff feels better that way(well.. with a limit ofc its open world after all).
> Plays an MMO this game should not have multiplayer content
Let me tell you about this little MMO, World of Warcraft, believe it or not you can go from 1 to max lvl and get all skills soloing. I know WoW is not as popular as GW2, but you anet might want to pull a page from their book.
Diff skill aquisition methods man in one game you are given for free your skills on the other you unlock them through skill points. This little game of your has gotten so much complaining over the years for abandoning the previous method of buying skill points with gold from lvling since that was a real payoff and it felt better.
In the end it felt good completing the eite spec that way rather than be given my elite spec for free with no hardships.
I’m fine with enough personal challenges (HPs, MPs) being made accessible to solo players who have no stomach for exploration, but if the next expansion is nothing but solo play, meta events that require zero organization, and flat terrain with no exploration you can count me out!
The original design of the game was that events would draw solo players together to complete group content. In general, the majority of MMO players play solo, which was probably the idea. Season 1 caused everyone to flood the maps, so in response, ArenaNet tried to split people up, which began the new ~4 group split design. The obvious problem with that however was that now 4 to 10x the amount of players were realistically needed, which caused the LFG problem. The harder it is to simply show up and play, the less people will show up and the faster the content is going to die out.
Organization in HoT is not required, unless you consider popping tags and force-filling the map organization. An even distribution of players is all you need. With a better UI, you wouldn’t even need commanders, and splitting the population into lanes/teams could have even been entirely automated, which would have been far more successful, much like WoW’s LFR.
There’s always going to be exploration, because ArenaNet’s always been about that. The maps aren’t going to be flat flat, but don’t expect to see complex multi-layered zones. As shown by HoT pre-launch, people don’t care about the complexity, what they’re going to focus on is how many zones and how big they are on the map, because they’re going to compare it with what the competition offers. That’s probably why they went with a new zone for every episode, because the lack of them was one of the common complaints.
Hero challenges should be completely redone imo, changing them from simple events to 1vs1 hero challenges; basically skill tests and played out like adventures. It would be an easy way to teach and test players, rather than letting people continue to effortlessly zerg without consequence. They’d still need an alternative however, such as paying gold to win, because they can’t risk blocking progression.
I wouldn’t be surprised if masteries as they are end up being scrapped. Core masteries that are actually needed should be through simple leveling, whereas points are for the more cosmetic ones. The problem is, with no direction, people can turn masteries into a nearly impossible grind instead of the casual experience it can be. Personally, I would preferred something more like a character-based level cap increase, like if HoT offered 20 HoT-specific mastery levels and enemies were level 80 + mastery level.
man on my main i have like 300 hp standing there doing nothing jsut because the maguma hp give 10 isntead of 1 doesnt mean you only need to do those if you cant stomach it do the core tyria ones.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
Thats not a map design issue this could easily be fixed if anet would ever bring back the old channel system from gw1 where you could see the maps and if they are full or not and accordingly join one also i joined the expac around when the second raid wing released and i didnt have much trouble getting all the hero points and completing the the maps either solo or with friends or just by being smart against certain situations.
They’ve been asked any times to do that. (crickets).
Leading edge to succeed? lul if you say someone need to be good at the game and on end gear to pull off the content they you are mistaken as far as the most hp go you can easily solo them as far as you teak your build to deal dmg and from there even exotics will do fine.
Not what I said. Leading edge, as in the early adopters, the people who stay in the current content.
The maps are group finding freindly because they were meta heavy nd that to some lvl was a bit too much its good to see that with the new maps they take a break from glorified meta chains but idd like them to go back to taht for the next expac tho since it gives memorable moments as well as the feel of epicness while it shows the multiplayer asspect the best. Also meta maps thend to be te more lively and active which is a good thing.I’ve got nothing against there being metas — however as someone else has often suggested, the metas should be instanced. This would improve accessibility and remove the headaches meta mob stacks cause for those who want to explore.
One more thing the “difficult content on open world maps” wasnt an exririment it was an long time standing request by the players who were able to one sot everything oen world in the game wihout a problem.The only isssue i find is that they shold have worked on the difficulty scaling on each lvl scale map better so the transition would be more natural, but should we feel like its was a msitake no hell no its goo to see things get harder the payoff feels better that way(well.. with a limit ofc its open world after all).
Hyperbole detected. No one “one-shots” everything.
I have nothing against the HoT mobs per se. The thing, though, is that even if event scaling were to start with smaller numbers required and scale up from there, players would still stack maps and leave several emptier shards under-populated. That’s a mega server issue. Scaling is only a benefit if it starts at solo or if enough players want to do stuff with a minimum of players.
tbh most of these problems where what ppl faced the first month or two after the expac launched i agree that the various events or current event icon would benefit massively from the arrows that the hero points have ( you know the ^ and down that the icons had depending on your map location) which already exists and the map also brightens the lvl of the map your are on so you can understand where you are and which parts are on the same lvl so not sure what more would you like.
You are correct; the arrows are very helpful.
But, they’re not enough. I would like to know how to get there. Not when I’m exploring for the first time. But, once I’ve been through the area a couple times, I want to know how to get around. Without having to memorize it.
Show me colored tubes where passages above and below me are. Same colors as the arrows.
Or, put the stairs on the map for each area as it is mapped. Show them from wherever I am on the map, rather than requiring me to get close enough to see them. And, let me know if they themselves are on another level, for which I have to find an alternate means of access.
Or, let me hover over what I’m trying to get to, and have those green arrows from missions show up pointing the way. I mean, that’s the only way I could make my way through while doing the storyline. Expand that so I can do it after that.
There are probably dozens of other ways to fix this. They already know they screwed up royally. But knowing it and doing something about it are two different things. The arrows were a start, but they are (or should be) far from done.
The multi-tiered maps suck. The minimap system is no help. Single tier maps are the way to go. Please no more Nintendo in the next expansion.
I won’t go that far. The multi-level maps are a decent idea. But, there MUST be navigation aids, or people just won’t come back.
Which means that any of the many GW2 players who did not adopt HoT at launch and try it later face not only those issues, but empty maps. The LFG/taxi work-around is not an intuitive means to maybe find the one working map. What kind of an impression does that make?
Imo the experiment to put harder content in open-world maps is a dismal failure. Expecting the average player to not only want to deal with the HoT mobs, but also to need to use a map-loading meta-system that means several maps fail while one map outnumbers the mobs to an easy win was always going to succumb to diminishing returns as the game population moved on to the next new thing. Design that requires one either be on the leading edge to succeed or be aware of/willing to use grouping systems that are not intuitive and often result in frustration and failure is design built for failure as content ages.
Exactly.
Jungle is not more inherently appropriate for full verticality than any other environment.
Perhaps not, but the MAGUUMA Jungle has always been multi-layered. In GW1, there were two layers weaved through each other. But, it was just as annoying there, for the same reasons.
tbh most of these problems where what ppl faced the first month or two after the expac launched i agree that the various events or current event icon would benefit massively from the arrows that the hero points have ( you know the ^ and down that the icons had depending on your map location) which already exists and the map also brightens the lvl of the map your are on so you can understand where you are and which parts are on the same lvl so not sure what more would you like.
You are correct; the arrows are very helpful.
But, they’re not enough. I would like to know how to get there. Not when I’m exploring for the first time. But, once I’ve been through the area a couple times, I want to know how to get around. Without having to memorize it.
Show me colored tubes where passages above and below me are. Same colors as the arrows.
Or, put the stairs on the map for each area as it is mapped. Show them from wherever I am on the map, rather than requiring me to get close enough to see them. And, let me know if they themselves are on another level, for which I have to find an alternate means of access.
Or, let me hover over what I’m trying to get to, and have those green arrows from missions show up pointing the way. I mean, that’s the only way I could make my way through while doing the storyline. Expand that so I can do it after that.
There are probably dozens of other ways to fix this. They already know they screwed up royally. But knowing it and doing something about it are two different things. The arrows were a start, but they are (or should be) far from done.
“they already know they screwed up royally”?? lul the fact that they didnt take your hand and walk you to the specific part of the map you want doesnt mean the screwed up royally sure the stairs icon would be really nice but even without it you can find your way after like a minute of looking at your map. Deff not a royal screw up buut some qol icons on the map would be really nice i agree.
(edited by zealex.9410)
I disagree, on pretty much every point. This expansion was the best thing that happened to GW2. And the vertical maps, THE best map design I have ever seen( How you can not like them? is beyond me) I hope the next one will be even more of this. But maybe more balanced elite speccs next time.
It depends on the map though. For a jungle, verticality is perfect. For underwater, the same. For a desert or a savannah or a tundra…not so much. The design of the map should fit the type of environment in my opinion.
Tundra could have tunnels, savannas could have buried ruins. But in such areas the underground wouldnt be as spacious as a jungle
There are tunnels and buried ruins in core tyria. It’s just not the same as HoT maps.
Which means that any of the many GW2 players who did not adopt HoT at launch and try it later face not only those issues, but empty maps. The LFG/taxi work-around is not an intuitive means to maybe find the one working map. What kind of an impression does that make?
Imo the experiment to put harder content in open-world maps is a dismal failure. Expecting the average player to not only want to deal with the HoT mobs, but also to need to use a map-loading meta-system that means several maps fail while one map outnumbers the mobs to an easy win was always going to succumb to diminishing returns as the game population moved on to the next new thing. Design that requires one either be on the leading edge to succeed or be aware of/willing to use grouping systems that are not intuitive and often result in frustration and failure is design built for failure as content ages.
Exactly.
This would be true if the HoT maps are empty. They’re not. I’m on HoT maps almost every day virtually all day. They’re pretty busy most of the time.
The exception is Dragon Stand which is pretty busy when the meta is up.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: AliamRationem.5172
I’m fine with enough personal challenges (HPs, MPs) being made accessible to solo players who have no stomach for exploration, but if the next expansion is nothing but solo play, meta events that require zero organization, and flat terrain with no exploration you can count me out!
The original design of the game was that events would draw solo players together to complete group content. In general, the majority of MMO players play solo, which was probably the idea. Season 1 caused everyone to flood the maps, so in response, ArenaNet tried to split people up, which began the new ~4 group split design. The obvious problem with that however was that now 4 to 10x the amount of players were realistically needed, which caused the LFG problem. The harder it is to simply show up and play, the less people will show up and the faster the content is going to die out.
Organization in HoT is not required, unless you consider popping tags and force-filling the map organization. An even distribution of players is all you need. With a better UI, you wouldn’t even need commanders, and splitting the population into lanes/teams could have even been entirely automated, which would have been far more successful, much like WoW’s LFR.
There’s always going to be exploration, because ArenaNet’s always been about that. The maps aren’t going to be flat flat, but don’t expect to see complex multi-layered zones. As shown by HoT pre-launch, people don’t care about the complexity, what they’re going to focus on is how many zones and how big they are on the map, because they’re going to compare it with what the competition offers. That’s probably why they went with a new zone for every episode, because the lack of them was one of the common complaints.
Hero challenges should be completely redone imo, changing them from simple events to 1vs1 hero challenges; basically skill tests and played out like adventures. It would be an easy way to teach and test players, rather than letting people continue to effortlessly zerg without consequence. They’d still need an alternative however, such as paying gold to win, because they can’t risk blocking progression.
I wouldn’t be surprised if masteries as they are end up being scrapped. Core masteries that are actually needed should be through simple leveling, whereas points are for the more cosmetic ones. The problem is, with no direction, people can turn masteries into a nearly impossible grind instead of the casual experience it can be. Personally, I would preferred something more like a character-based level cap increase, like if HoT offered 20 HoT-specific mastery levels and enemies were level 80 + mastery level.
In my opinion, masteries are fine but they should have had far more of them available. The strongboxes and map-marked mastery points are great for players who like to explore. Achievement masteries for players who like combat. Adventure masteries for players who enjoy those. And so on. The problem is that there aren’t enough of them to allow players to avoid the content they really have no interest in.
I’ve been playing a year now and I still only have 150 mastery level because I simply have no interest in completing the adventure and storyline achievements where most of my remaining achievement points are. I find that content obnoxious and the masteries I have left aren’t enough of an incentive to put myself through it.
Hero challenges should be like adventures? No, thanks! You can keep the adventures. I’d rather fight champions myself. Which is why I think it would be better if there were also enough hero points to give players a little more freedom in how they choose to pursue unlocking their elite spec. Want adventure HPs? Fine! Let’s have them! And let’s also have champion hero challenges, exploration-based communes, etc. Something for everyone and enough that players don’t feel forced.
As for the maps? I’m sorry, but core Tyria has no “exploration” unless you count walking in a straight line to uncover every corner of a map. I get that not everyone loves maps like VB and TD, but you’re crazy if you think a lot of players don’t. You can see it on these forums and in the game. Plenty of people love these maps and play on them even though ANet failed horribly to balance rewards for them compared to other maps (AB most notably!).
I love the type of exploration TD offers. But map completing Tyria? I’d rather drill kitten in my head. I’m fine with maps like Ember Bay and Bitterfrost Frontier exist. I know they require a lot less effort to produce than a map like TD and they have more broad appeal. But if that’s all they have in the next expansion, along with solo-only hero challenges? Like I said, I’m out. That has no appeal to me.
“Things that need to NOT be on next exp” – I don’t know if something need to be or NOT in an expansion.
I will try to tell what I don’t want to find in the next XP
1. Changes to specialization skills. Be honest ANet, don’t over power some skills only to cut them in half after 2-3 months. The chronomancer is a good example. I don’t debate here if alacrity was OP at 66%. I don’t debate here if the quickness output was OP or not. What I want to say is that the final Chronomancer is totally different of what the Chronomancer was at release. So, don’t change the new elite skills during the game. Because this means gear change and that means gold wasted by players.
2. Hiding common rewards behind exclusive content. I don’t like to see content designed for only a very few to be used as a wall for rewards desired (and needed) by all, as in HoT: experience, masteries – I don’t think these are extraordinary rewards – are hidden behind raids. Even a new legendary weapon needs all the masteries unlocked. Or the legendary armor – this is an armor - I don’t think an armor is something to be “protected” by a content designed for only a small part of the playerbase. Even if that armor has the “legendary” word in the description. Create special and exclusive content for your hardcore players. Make the rewards to be generous. But don’t make this content the only way to have that rewards
3. I don’t like to see the design of the “horizontal progression” with the idea of grind in mind. Repeating some tasks may be fun. Sometimes you want to do this. But being forced to do this tens of times only to have one MP or an achievement is not funny. I forgot the achievement related with the defense of Tarir. Correction: Hundred of times.
4. Changing of the rules during the play: changing recipe components / recipe quantities / droprates in some places because ANet does not want the players to grind/make profit etc. Changes in the game affecting the items already owned by the players – see the skill points before HoT / the agony resistance change – the amulet.
Disclaimer: These are things I don’t like. I’m sure other players may like the aspects I wrote about. I’m not sure if these aspects need to be or to miss in the next XPac.
But I think Anet should correctly advertise the XPac if some content is exclusive. And to clearly tell to the buyers that some content is not for all. And some rewards too – if this is the case.
“Things that need to NOT be on next exp” – I don’t know if something need to be or NOT in an expansion.
I will try to tell what I don’t want to find in the next XP
1. Changes to specialization skills. Be honest ANet, don’t over power some skills only to cut them in half after 2-3 months. The chronomancer is a good example. I don’t debate here if alacrity was OP at 66%. I don’t debate here if the quickness output was OP or not. What I want to say is that the final Chronomancer is totally different of what the Chronomancer was at release. So, don’t change the new elite skills during the game. Because this means gear change and that means gold wasted by players.
2. Hiding common rewards behind exclusive content. I don’t like to see content designed for only a very few to be used as a wall for rewards desired (and needed) by all, as in HoT: experience, masteries – I don’t think these are extraordinary rewards – are hidden behind raids. Even a new legendary weapon needs all the masteries unlocked. Or the legendary armor – this is an armor - I don’t think an armor is something to be “protected” by a content designed for only a small part of the playerbase. Even if that armor has the “legendary” word in the description. Create special and exclusive content for your hardcore players. Make the rewards to be generous. But don’t make this content the only way to have that rewards
3. I don’t like to see the design of the “horizontal progression” with the idea of grind in mind. Repeating some tasks may be fun. Sometimes you want to do this. But being forced to do this tens of times only to have one MP or an achievement is not funny. I forgot the achievement related with the defense of Tarir. Correction: Hundred of times.
4. Changing of the rules during the play: changing recipe components / recipe quantities / droprates in some places because ANet does not want the players to grind/make profit etc. Changes in the game affecting the items already owned by the players – see the skill points before HoT / the agony resistance change – the amulet.Disclaimer: These are things I don’t like. I’m sure other players may like the aspects I wrote about. I’m not sure if these aspects need to be or to miss in the next XPac.
But I think Anet should correctly advertise the XPac if some content is exclusive. And to clearly tell to the buyers that some content is not for all. And some rewards too – if this is the case.
name me 1 mmo that has done some huge changes or even added a new class into the game and it was so well belanced that they never needed to go back and tweak it in some way name me 1 and ill take my hat off to you.Ofc a class will not be perfect on release and ofc it will require balancing thats to be expected, the developers after all are humans xD and ofc you will need to tweak your gear to remain efficient at what you do depending on those balance changes if not the game would be stale and not fun.Balancing around what gear ppl buyed and not around whats overperforming and underperfoming is bad design philosophy.
whats the issue of exclusive rewards for specific forms of content? Realy i mean its a way to reward those dedicated to some form of content with rewards fiting of their dedication and acievement in raids case its legendart armor in fractals case its legendary backpiece in pvp’s case its legendary back piece srsly whats wrong with that if exclsive rewards werent a thing you wouldnt have a way to notice the one veteran of said content over the dozens casuals and new to the content it also gives a solid goal for ppl n make them get into said content if you dont like it thats fine but im amazed that you thing that giving something that the veterans of a certain game mode can look forward to is something that is much needed in mmos
let me get this straight you feel forced to do tarir 100 times because of an achievement? let me tell you something in case you are an achievement hunter the ap rewards take ages to update and new update to content bring tones of ap each time so not bothering with that 1 specific achievement that force you to do something you dont enjoy stops being such a big issue.
Anet surpisingly advertised their expc really well (well if you dont consider the fact that we still dont have all the hot legendaries the fractal leaderboards and the legendary armor) but they did state that some content was exclusive to certain audience and some rewards were also exclusive to certain audience.That being raids whch was content for those who wanted something challenging and legendary armor that was rewards for thoe who were willing to accept such challenge.
The vertical maps are simply amazing and many players love them. There is no reason they should be excluded entirely from the next expansion.
I still can’t stand Tangled Depths, but my reasons and hopefully solutions are splattered in more relevant parts of the forums. :P
Overall, I like the verticality. Sprawling zones are nice, almost “polite” by game design standards, for exploration, but the layers add a lot more density for events to take place. I’d rather it not have been meta-gated the way Verdant Brink did it or locked behind masteries (making shortcuts good, insta-kill in green fog bad). Having all the relevant masteries now, it’s not such a pain in the tuckus, but it was really demotivating as a newer player to the experience.
tl;dr – Vertical maps good; puh-leeeeze upgrade map tools to compensate.
As for HPs, again there is no reason group challenges should be excluded entirely. Many of us enjoy running HP trains and have made a lot of friends helping other players out with these challenges. Further, there are plenty of solo options for players who prefer to pursue them. I can agree that perhaps there should be more of them available for such players.
Philosophically, one shouldn’t have to wait for an HP train or other nonsense just to advance a character. Buuut, I got to thinking about the most annoying HPs and why they suck:
So if there are going to be group-event hero challenges, I’d make the recommendation that those appear on major thoroughfares, so it’s easy to find people to join in. If it’s supposed to be a complicated/hidden point to get to, then make it a commune point with, at most, an elite guard.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
This would be true if the HoT maps are empty. They’re not. I’m on HoT maps almost every day virtually all day. They’re pretty busy most of the time.
The exception is Dragon Stand which is pretty busy when the meta is up.
It’s nice that you know how to taxi. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you looked at a 3rd party timer to know when the optimum times to taxi are. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you can play so much, which allows you to make yourself available at the right times to accommodate your activities to the timers. Not everyone can. It’s nice that you always get into the populated map. Not everyone does. It’s nice that you have a large guild to play with failing everything else. That won’t be true for everyone, either.
The truth is that you have a better experience than some for those reasons. The fact of the matter is that the core game’s maps are friendlier to players who don’t have tons of time, who just want to drop into the game when their lives allow and get some stuff done than the HoT maps. The fact that you have an enjoyable experience does not make it a slam dunk that everyone is going to.
This would be true if the HoT maps are empty. They’re not. I’m on HoT maps almost every day virtually all day. They’re pretty busy most of the time.
The exception is Dragon Stand which is pretty busy when the meta is up.
It’s nice that you know how to taxi. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you looked at a 3rd party timer to know when the optimum times to taxi are. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you can play so much, which allows you to make yourself available at the right times to accommodate your activities to the timers. Not everyone can. It’s nice that you always get into the populated map. Not everyone does. It’s nice that you have a large guild to play with failing everything else. That won’t be true for everyone, either.
The truth is that you have a better experience than some for those reasons. The fact of the matter is that the core game’s maps are friendlier to players who don’t have tons of time, who just want to drop into the game when their lives allow and get some stuff done than the HoT maps. The fact that you have an enjoyable experience does not make it a slam dunk that everyone is going to.
Actually I almost never do metas on HoT maps and I almost never use LFG and they’re still not empty. I meant what I said. HoT maps simply aren’t as empty as many people are making them out to be. The population is simply more spread out.
Sure, when I do a meta, I do look in LFG tool., That’s true. But 90% of the time I’m on HoT maps, I’m just doing events or completion. For example,. I’ve completed VB on over 20 characters and AB on 15 characters. Now I’m doing the same with TD.
I don’t use LFG and there are still plenty of people on those maps.
Now admittedly I do use map chat to tell people I’m about to do a hero point,. but those events are being called out on map chat all the time.
People really do need to start using map chat to get people to come.
If you have a mentor tag, pop it, say the name of the tag and post the nearest landmark to it. If it’s complicated to get to, say something.
Hi I’m about to do the Tengu hero point. It’s north of Eastwatch Waypoint (link) up the jumping mushrooms.
It takes about two minutes to finish that (even though I have soloed it on a necro).
And that’s without using LFG.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
This would be true if the HoT maps are empty. They’re not. I’m on HoT maps almost every day virtually all day. They’re pretty busy most of the time.
The exception is Dragon Stand which is pretty busy when the meta is up.
It’s nice that you know how to taxi. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you looked at a 3rd party timer to know when the optimum times to taxi are. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you can play so much, which allows you to make yourself available at the right times to accommodate your activities to the timers. Not everyone can. It’s nice that you always get into the populated map. Not everyone does. It’s nice that you have a large guild to play with failing everything else. That won’t be true for everyone, either.
The truth is that you have a better experience than some for those reasons. The fact of the matter is that the core game’s maps are friendlier to players who don’t have tons of time, who just want to drop into the game when their lives allow and get some stuff done than the HoT maps. The fact that you have an enjoyable experience does not make it a slam dunk that everyone is going to.
Actually I almost never do metas on HoT maps and I almost never use LFG and they’re still not empty. I meant what I said. HoT maps simply aren’t as empty as many people are making them out to be. The population is simply more spread out.
Sure, when I do a meta, I do look in LFG tool., That’s true. But 90% of the time I’m on HoT maps, I’m just doing events or completion. For example,. I’ve completed VB on over 20 characters and AB on 15 characters. Now I’m doing the same with TD.
I don’t use LFG and there are still plenty of people on those maps.
Now admittedly I do use map chat to tell people I’m about to do a hero point,. but those events are being called out on map chat all the time.
People really do need to start using map chat to get people to come.
If you have a mentor tag, pop it, say the name of the tag and post the nearest landmark to it. If it’s complicated to get to, say something.
Hi I’m about to do the Tengu hero point. It’s north of Eastwatch Waypoint (link) up the jumping mushrooms.
It takes about two minutes to finish that (even though I have soloed it on a necro).
And that’s without using LFG.
I’ll agree that people don’t use map chat. I can wander around a HoT map for an hour or more and see nothing at all in chat. Then again, I can, in a space of a quarter hour be asked to leave a closing map three times. That’s either people taxiing, going to a map they find more fun, or logging off.
I’ll agree that people don’t use map chat. I can wander around a HoT map for an hour or more and see nothing at all in chat. Then again, I can, in a space of a quarter hour be asked to leave a closing map three times. That’s either people taxiing, going to a map they find more fun, or logging off.
I’ve asked for help in HoT zones dozens of times. I can only recall three times where someone answered, and one was a sarcastic joke.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
I’ll agree that people don’t use map chat. I can wander around a HoT map for an hour or more and see nothing at all in chat. Then again, I can, in a space of a quarter hour be asked to leave a closing map three times. That’s either people taxiing, going to a map they find more fun, or logging off.
I’ve asked for help in HoT zones dozens of times. I can only recall three times where someone answered, and one was a sarcastic joke.
This is my point. Different players are going to have a disparate experience depending on when they log in, what they want to accomplish, what their personal preferences are, etc. The real question is, imo, what responsibility the devs have in facilitating an enjoyable experience for players. What this means for HoT is, “How successful was Hot in terms of engaging various player demographics?” The answer at the moment seems to indicate that some loved it and some hated it.
This would be true if the HoT maps are empty. They’re not. I’m on HoT maps almost every day virtually all day. They’re pretty busy most of the time.
The exception is Dragon Stand which is pretty busy when the meta is up.
It’s nice that you know how to taxi. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you looked at a 3rd party timer to know when the optimum times to taxi are. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you can play so much, which allows you to make yourself available at the right times to accommodate your activities to the timers. Not everyone can. It’s nice that you always get into the populated map. Not everyone does. It’s nice that you have a large guild to play with failing everything else. That won’t be true for everyone, either.
The truth is that you have a better experience than some for those reasons. The fact of the matter is that the core game’s maps are friendlier to players who don’t have tons of time, who just want to drop into the game when their lives allow and get some stuff done than the HoT maps. The fact that you have an enjoyable experience does not make it a slam dunk that everyone is going to.
Actually I almost never do metas on HoT maps and I almost never use LFG and they’re still not empty. I meant what I said. HoT maps simply aren’t as empty as many people are making them out to be. The population is simply more spread out.
Sure, when I do a meta, I do look in LFG tool., That’s true. But 90% of the time I’m on HoT maps, I’m just doing events or completion. For example,. I’ve completed VB on over 20 characters and AB on 15 characters. Now I’m doing the same with TD.
I don’t use LFG and there are still plenty of people on those maps.
Now admittedly I do use map chat to tell people I’m about to do a hero point,. but those events are being called out on map chat all the time.
People really do need to start using map chat to get people to come.
If you have a mentor tag, pop it, say the name of the tag and post the nearest landmark to it. If it’s complicated to get to, say something.
Hi I’m about to do the Tengu hero point. It’s north of Eastwatch Waypoint (link) up the jumping mushrooms.
It takes about two minutes to finish that (even though I have soloed it on a necro).
And that’s without using LFG.
I’ll agree that people don’t use map chat. I can wander around a HoT map for an hour or more and see nothing at all in chat. Then again, I can, in a space of a quarter hour be asked to leave a closing map three times. That’s either people taxiing, going to a map they find more fun, or logging off.
It’s like any map with a meta though. You go to the fire ele, if you do the fire ele and stay on the map after everyone’s left, they need to consolidate maps, because all the maps are closing. That’s normal for every zone in this game with a world boss.
Do Teq and stay in Sparkfly and you get the same effect.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
This would be true if the HoT maps are empty. They’re not. I’m on HoT maps almost every day virtually all day. They’re pretty busy most of the time.
The exception is Dragon Stand which is pretty busy when the meta is up.
It’s nice that you know how to taxi. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you looked at a 3rd party timer to know when the optimum times to taxi are. Not everyone will. It’s nice that you can play so much, which allows you to make yourself available at the right times to accommodate your activities to the timers. Not everyone can. It’s nice that you always get into the populated map. Not everyone does. It’s nice that you have a large guild to play with failing everything else. That won’t be true for everyone, either.
The truth is that you have a better experience than some for those reasons. The fact of the matter is that the core game’s maps are friendlier to players who don’t have tons of time, who just want to drop into the game when their lives allow and get some stuff done than the HoT maps. The fact that you have an enjoyable experience does not make it a slam dunk that everyone is going to.
Actually I almost never do metas on HoT maps and I almost never use LFG and they’re still not empty. I meant what I said. HoT maps simply aren’t as empty as many people are making them out to be. The population is simply more spread out.
Sure, when I do a meta, I do look in LFG tool., That’s true. But 90% of the time I’m on HoT maps, I’m just doing events or completion. For example,. I’ve completed VB on over 20 characters and AB on 15 characters. Now I’m doing the same with TD.
I don’t use LFG and there are still plenty of people on those maps.
Now admittedly I do use map chat to tell people I’m about to do a hero point,. but those events are being called out on map chat all the time.
People really do need to start using map chat to get people to come.
If you have a mentor tag, pop it, say the name of the tag and post the nearest landmark to it. If it’s complicated to get to, say something.
Hi I’m about to do the Tengu hero point. It’s north of Eastwatch Waypoint (link) up the jumping mushrooms.
It takes about two minutes to finish that (even though I have soloed it on a necro).
And that’s without using LFG.
I’ll agree that people don’t use map chat. I can wander around a HoT map for an hour or more and see nothing at all in chat. Then again, I can, in a space of a quarter hour be asked to leave a closing map three times. That’s either people taxiing, going to a map they find more fun, or logging off.
It’s like any map with a meta though. You go to the fire ele, if you do the fire ele and stay on the map after everyone’s left, they need to consolidate maps, because all the maps are closing. That’s normal for every zone in this game with a world boss.
Do Teq and stay in Sparkfly and you get the same effect.
Except I see HoT maps closing in the middle of metas, not at the end. I don’t see that in Metrica or Sparkfly. This probably has to do with the length of the disparate content.
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