Guild Wars 2

Ey, guys. I feel like most of you dont understand how B2P MMO works.
But thats understandable, cause there’s not much this kind of MMORPGs.
Most of you misjudged the situation.

Yeah, price of this expansion may be too high, if u compare it to the content which is going to appear in the begining of HoT, but ONLY when GW2 would be a P2P game.
Not B2P.
Cause then it may (and even should) cost like 10$ for an expansion like this, but then we would have to pay subscription to play more and discover next updates.
While here we pay for all this months or even years of playing.

And by the way, when it comes to the B2P games – if expansion comes, the basic game is no longer worth anything. We used it already. We paid for it and we used it. Even if somebody bought this game in january (-75%) then he paid just for this few months before HoT – to lvl some characters, discover the world etc etc. The only losers are these people which bought it in the last month for a bad price, but Anet is probably going to help them. Anyway there’s not many of them, while almost all of you whine on the forums etc.

I hope Anet isnt angry cause of your behavior guys and they’re not going to do something wrong in the future, cause of the last situation.

Sorry, doesn’t wash.

Here’s a real-world example. I’m very fond of the game The Sims. I’ve had every version since the original, and every expansion for said games (though I have skipped some of the “stuff packs”).

Every, and I mean every expansion for all those games has been released as a standalone that people didn’t get the base game free with. After a few months released as a standalone, some of the expansions (but not all) would be bundled with the base game as a way for new players to get in, but as I just said, that’s after they’d been out as a standalone for a while.

ANet’s problem is that they’re not letting us get the expansion separately, they’re going right to the bundle phase.

Every expansion with Sims required the base game to play. Always. Who knows what will happen with GW2 with the next xpac. Will it require only the base game, or will it require HoT as well as base game?

If you are going to compare apples and oranges, please be at least equal in comparing them.

Kitiara.2706:

Every expansion with Sims required the base game to play. Always. Who knows what will happen with GW2 with the next xpac. Will it require only the base game, or will it require HoT as well as base game?

If you are going to compare apples and oranges, please be at least equal in comparing them.

Exactly my point. They required the base game, but they didn’t include the base game. That’s what “standalone” means.

B2P or not, I honestly don’t know how anyone could interpret what ANet is doing as being anything but a gouge. It would have cost them nothing (we are talking digital bytes here after all) to release the expansion as two versions… the standalone expansion at a lower price point for those who already have the game, and the bundled version at 50 bucks for the new players which saves them from buying game plus expac separately.

Hexalot.8194:

B2P or not, I honestly don’t know how anyone could interpret what ANet is doing as being anything but a gouge. It would have cost them nothing (we are talking digital bytes here after all) to release the expansion as two versions… the standalone expansion at a lower price point for those who already have the game, and the bundled version at 50 bucks for the new players which saves them from buying game plus expac separately.

Because the expansion IS worth 50$ in their eyes.

Xar.1387:

Ey, guys. I feel like most of you dont understand how B2P MMO works….

I hope Anet isnt angry cause of your behavior guys and they’re not going to do something wrong in the future, cause of the last situation.

I feel like you don’t understand how not shafting your existing customer base works. And we don’t need to wait for them to do something wrong in the future, they’ve already done it.

SmudgerUK.4715:

I feel like you don’t understand how not shafting your existing customer base works. And we don’t need to wait for them to do something wrong in the future, they’ve already done it.

Done it more than once, IMHO.

SmudgerUK.4715:

Xar.1387:

Ey, guys. I feel like most of you dont understand how B2P MMO works….

I hope Anet isnt angry cause of your behavior guys and they’re not going to do something wrong in the future, cause of the last situation.

I feel like you don’t understand how not shafting your existing customer base works. And we don’t need to wait for them to do something wrong in the future, they’ve already done it.

yeah I read that as a “I hope mommy and daddy aren’t mad at me for being upset!”. It makes no sense. Why should we worry about upsetting anet when all they’ve done since HoT went up for sale was refuse to acknowledge us and upset us?

Not to mention it still doesn’t change that an expansion that adds a new class ought to come with an included char slot to use it. Especially when new players are getting a much better deal than existing players.

Entenkommando.5208:

Hexalot.8194:

B2P or not, I honestly don’t know how anyone could interpret what ANet is doing as being anything but a gouge. It would have cost them nothing (we are talking digital bytes here after all) to release the expansion as two versions… the standalone expansion at a lower price point for those who already have the game, and the bundled version at 50 bucks for the new players which saves them from buying game plus expac separately.

Because the expansion IS worth 50$ in their eyes.

Too bad it isn’t worth that money in a growing number of peoples eyes… particularly when the content released so far seems miniscule compared to the price.

Not to mention it still doesn’t change that an expansion that adds a new class ought to come with an included char slot to use it. Especially when new players are getting a much better deal than existing players.

OP is objectively demonstrated wrong by GW1 and Arena net previous work and releases.

Dinks.2478:

yeah I read that as a “I hope mommy and daddy aren’t mad at me for being upset!”. It makes no sense. Why should we worry about upsetting anet when all they’ve done since HoT went up for sale was refuse to acknowledge us and upset us?

Maybe I wrote it wrong.
I meant two things:

1. Feeling bad = Working bad. I just hope that they’re thick-skinned, cause as a normal player I care more on a good content created by motiavated devs, than ur big drama and fighting with them for a 1 free slot or smt like that.

2. Its really easy to destroy a pretty good MMORPG game, which is B2P. This payment model is rly risky. Do not be surprised if they will be forced to make P2W in the future.

Xar.1387:

Yeah, price of this expansion may be too high, if u compare it to the content which is going to appear in the begining of HoT, but ONLY when GW2 would be a P2P game.
Not B2P.

The Gem Store, which happens to get updates more often than ANY other part of the game, and uses shaddy practices like a lottery system with unknown odds or the creation of inconvenience to sell convenience, is evidence that GW2 isn’t just B2P. It has a strong stench of F2P, and the worst kind of F2P while you’re at it.

Xar.1387:

2. Its really easy to destroy a pretty good MMORPG game, which is B2P. This payment model is rly risky. Do not be surprised if they will be forced to make P2W in the future.

P2W? Isn’t GW2 already the most P2W it could be? You can already use gems to buy the most powerful weapons in the game.

Test.8734 u dont know what’s P2W.

Test.8734:

Xar.1387:

Yeah, price of this expansion may be too high, if u compare it to the content which is going to appear in the begining of HoT, but ONLY when GW2 would be a P2P game.
Not B2P.

The Gem Store, which happens to get updates more often than ANY other part of the game, and uses shaddy practices like a lottery system with unknown odds or the creation of inconvenience to sell convenience, is evidence that GW2 isn’t just B2P. It has a strong stench of F2P, and the worst kind of F2P while you’re at it.

Xar.1387:

2. Its really easy to destroy a pretty good MMORPG game, which is B2P. This payment model is rly risky. Do not be surprised if they will be forced to make P2W in the future.

P2W? Isn’t GW2 already the most P2W it could be? You can already use gems to buy the most powerful weapons in the game.

If you could buy weapons that were stronger then whats in the game that would be p2w

They got sales targets to meet, and they are cynically taking a shortcut to achieve it. If they sell 2000000 unit without a character slot and a quarter buys that slot, that’s a cool extra $5000000.

And if you learn math, that’s a cool extra for you.
You forgot prices. x-pac is 50$, character slot $10. so if 1/4th of buyers gets the slot they’ll make 1/20 (5%) extra on sales extra in that case.

Now is that worth getting in bad with players and having their good name tarnished? I’ll let a-net provide an answer to that.

B2P?! Buy the core game every 3 years?! ’Cause HoT is the new core game. Can they at least be frank about it and call it so, and not expansion, dlc, etc?

Also B2P with a strong F2P model. With huge limits on the account – char slots, inventory, bank. With huuuge focus on Gem Store.

So no. That’s a very bad hybrid: “Hey, this is b2p, so pay! However, we’ll still treat you like a free player”. What next?! They’ll decide that having the playerbase buy same product again later might not work, so they’ll just change the LW into a DLC? having ppl pay every 2 weeks a lil?! After the stunt they pulled with HoT, nothing’s suprizing.

Kitiara.2706:

Every expansion with Sims required the base game to play. Always. Who knows what will happen with GW2 with the next xpac. Will it require only the base game, or will it require HoT as well as base game?

If you are going to compare apples and oranges, please be at least equal in comparing them.

What will happen with the next xpac will be they will quadruple check everything to make sure they haven’t neglected any key factors.

Here’s a real-world example. I’m very fond of the game The Sims. I’ve had every version since the original, and every expansion for said games (though I have skipped some of the “stuff packs”).

Every, and I mean every expansion for all those games has been released as a standalone that people didn’t get the base game free with. After a few months released as a standalone, some of the expansions (but not all) would be bundled with the base game as a way for new players to get in, but as I just said, that’s after they’d been out as a standalone for a while.

ANet’s problem is that they’re not letting us get the expansion separately, they’re going right to the bundle phase.

People keep looking at it wrong though. They look at it as “the price of the expansion was X, but then they added in the cost of the base game and made it $50, so they should let me buy it without the base game and it would only be X again!” (X in this case typically assumed to be $40)

NO.

That is not what happened.

What happened is that they priced the expansion at $50, that’s $50 WITHOUT the base game, and then they decided to throw in the base game for free, because why not? So now the base HoT pack costs $50, plus the cost of the base game ($0), resulting in a total price of $50.

And keep in mind, this is a pre-order bonus only. If you don’t own the game at all, and go into the store to buy HoT after launch, you’ll be paying $50 AND need to buy a copy of the base game (which will likely be at around $10 by that point).

So yeah, they should allow people to buy a copy of the expansion that does not include the price of the base game, if only to shut them up, but it’ll still cost $50.

Ohoni.6057:

NO.

That is not what happened.

What happened is that they priced the expansion at $50, that’s $50 WITHOUT the base game, and then they decided to throw in the base game for free, because why not? So now the base HoT pack costs $50, plus the cost of the base game ($0), resulting in a total price of $50.

I think not. I think they just called HoT an expansion (only possible way to do it) but they actually turned it into the base game. Please keep in mind there’s no base game available for purchase on their site

So it’s not that HoT as base game isn’t worth its money. It is!!! But not for people already having the old GW2. For them, HoT should have a lower price, because 70% (if not more) of the product has already been payed for and experienced.

Sure, this caused a kittenstorm, but it would’ve been a lot bigger probably if they’d have come clean and say HoT will be the base game and everyone has to buy it at full cost. The GW2 community supported Anet through the first 3 years, some out of nostalgia, some because they arrived here from experiencing even worse game models, but such a move would’ve probably pushed away a lot more customers.

So the solution, as things are now, would be: call it for what it is, so this whole “is the expansion’s content worth it?” can end. But! Either move away from treating your customers like free players in a f2p game and add value to anyone who has already purchased GW2. Not 1 char slot, 2000 gems – thus giving them a 50% lower price. Or have the 50% discount applied on the real price.

The problem is, they can no longer do that without causing another kittenstorm. The vets buying the game in the past week will feel exactly the way the 2015’s new customers feel now. Scammed. Cheated.

As such, Anet can only apply this scheme the moment HoT goes live. Then, the extra 25$ vet players payed would be “justified” through their access to beta sessions (and the rest of the bling blings that should not become available later on to anyone else).

ZeftheWicked.3076:

And if you learn math, that’s a cool extra for you.
You forgot prices. x-pac is 50$, character slot $10. so if 1/4th of buyers gets the slot they’ll make 1/20 (5%) extra on sales extra in that case.

Now is that worth getting in bad with players and having their good name tarnished? I’ll let a-net provide an answer to that.

Woosh. But very creative on the insult.

Omocha.4931:

As such, Anet can only apply this scheme the moment HoT goes live. Then, the extra 25$ vet players payed would be “justified” through their access to beta sessions (and the rest of the bling blings that should not become available later on to anyone else).

But if they will tell this NOW – much less people will pre-purchase HotT. “Would be funny if not sad” situation.

Test.8734:

P2W? Isn’t GW2 already the most P2W it could be? You can already use gems to buy the most powerful weapons in the game.

Both GW games were and are not P2W ones. They are P2S – “pay to slack”.
GW2 would’ve been P2W if the Ascended gear would’ve been a Gem Store product.

Changeling Dash.4782:

But if they will tell this NOW – much less people will pre-purchase HotT. “Would be funny if not sad” situation.

Yup. Less people would get kinda scammed indeed. Ppl who already purchased will be a bit mad for having payed half the price just for beta access. But this particular kittenstorm will pass and with some honest statements (not sneaky PR policies) there will be a boost in good-will and trust levels. As such, I don’t know what’s better: Getting a good financial boost now with this approach or have a larger, healthy player base that will support the company in the years to come?!

I think not. I think they just called HoT an expansion (only possible way to do it) but they actually turned it into the base game. Please keep in mind there’s no base game available for purchase on their site

Well not right now, since so many people are raaaaaaging over the idea of Gw2 being offered for sale when it was also free with the expansion. Imagine if they left a $40 GW2 box up on the site as well? But from what they’ve said, it seems like the “vanilla” box will go back up on their official site after launch, though likely at a permanent discount. Keep in mind that even hella outdated, they still offer all the old GW1 sets at near their original prices. The $10 sales on GW2 are already fairly generous by ANet standards.

But still, bundling the two of them together permanently wouldn’t be a bad thing, the point is that HoT costs $50, with or without GW2 being included. There is no such thing as “HoT without GW2 for a lower price,” nor was there ever such a thing. There was no point where the price was lower than $50, and they said “we’ll throw in the core game and jack up the price.”

So it’s not that HoT as base game isn’t worth its money. It is!!! But not for people already having the old GW2. For them, HoT should have a lower price, because 70% (if not more) of the product has already been payed for and experienced.

No. 100% of the cost of HoT is the HoT content, and none of that has been paid for, and none of it experienced (unless you’ve been in a beta already). The core GW2 content is a freebie, its value is not factored into the cost of the expansion purchase. When doing the math, it has a value of $0.00, so add or remove it and the price remains the same.

So the solution, as things are now, would be: call it for what it is, so this whole “is the expansion’s content worth it?” can end. But! Either move away from treating your customers like free players in a f2p game and add value to anyone who has already purchased GW2. Not 1 char slot, 2000 gems – thus giving them a 50% lower price. Or have the 50% discount applied on the real price.

The value to customers who already own the game is that they already own the game. They have already been playing it, and have had months, in most cases years to build up their characters, unlock account bound items, clear time-locked story missions, participate in events that will never be seen again like the fall of Lion’s Arch, etc. That is the value to existing consumers. To anyone who bought the game recently, ANet is offering refunds. To anyone that bought the game more than months ago, ANet does not owe us anything special when it comes to HoT, we got what we paid for, and well more. If they want to give us free stuff, I certainly wouldn’t turn it away, but neither do I condone demanding it.

Omocha.4931:

Changeling Dash.4782:

But if they will tell this NOW – much less people will pre-purchase HotT. “Would be funny if not sad” situation.

Yup. Less people would get kinda scammed indeed. Ppl who already purchased will be a bit mad for having payed half the price just for beta access. But this particular kittenstorm will pass and with some honest statements (not sneaky PR policies) there will be a boost in good-will and trust levels. As such, I don’t know what’s better: Getting a good financial boost now with this approach or have a larger, healthy player base that will support the company in the years to come?!

Sadly, the answer to that is somewhere in calculations, and it could be bad for us.
If Nexon goes further with their influence on NCSoft and Anet – we can expect random armor and weapon boxes in gemstore and donate-only unique equipment. Yay. :/

I’ve seen some kitten Nexon games. That’s not good at all.

Changeling Dash.4782:

Omocha.4931:

Changeling Dash.4782:

But if they will tell this NOW – much less people will pre-purchase HotT. “Would be funny if not sad” situation.

Yup. Less people would get kinda scammed indeed. Ppl who already purchased will be a bit mad for having payed half the price just for beta access. But this particular kittenstorm will pass and with some honest statements (not sneaky PR policies) there will be a boost in good-will and trust levels. As such, I don’t know what’s better: Getting a good financial boost now with this approach or have a larger, healthy player base that will support the company in the years to come?!

Sadly, the answer to that is somewhere in calculations, and it could be bad for us.
If Nexon goes further with their influence on NCSoft and Anet – we can expect random armor and weapon boxes in gemstore and donate-only unique equipment. Yay. :/

I’ve seen some kitten Nexon games. That’s not good at all.

You really really are out of the loop of you think that Nexon influences this game. In fact, NcSoft has taken public steps to defend themselves against influence from Nexon who tried to influence NcSoft quite publicly and failed.

Your assertion that this is something that has to do with Nexon invalids any argument that comes after it.

Then they have to come up with an expansion that’s worth the “expansion” title. Not reworked base game with a pretty cherry on top (the Revenant) that’s just too high to reach it without adding more to the cost of the “expansion”.

And here you have more issues: just adding more maps that give same incentives to play – generic champ boxes and won’t cut it. Afaik, no instances of any kind and the dymanic events we’ve experienced in Maguuma Wastes if kept in the next areas will just add grievance to players – with half the map afk’ing for Sandstorm or Breach or just waiting for CFs.

Judging by what’s been offered with it, HoT is not an expansion. At all. It’s GW2 core game reworked with very little extra content (some of it unaccessible unless there’s $10 worth of gems added to the cost).

I think I’ll stop this though. It feels kinda pointless at this point to debate wether HoT is worth it or not or what Anet could and should do. One week has passed since the uprising began and the complete silence from the devs/publisher is enough. Time will tell if you people got the money’s worth of the presale or not…

Judging by what’s been offered with it, HoT is not an expansion. At all. It’s GW2 core game reworked with very little extra content (some of it unaccessible unless there’s $10 worth of gems added to the cost).

You’ve just described every MMO expansion ever. Aside from Star Wars Galaxies NGE, I suppose.

Vayne.8563:

Changeling Dash.4782:

Omocha.4931:

Changeling Dash.4782:

But if they will tell this NOW – much less people will pre-purchase HotT. “Would be funny if not sad” situation.

Yup. Less people would get kinda scammed indeed. Ppl who already purchased will be a bit mad for having payed half the price just for beta access. But this particular kittenstorm will pass and with some honest statements (not sneaky PR policies) there will be a boost in good-will and trust levels. As such, I don’t know what’s better: Getting a good financial boost now with this approach or have a larger, healthy player base that will support the company in the years to come?!

Sadly, the answer to that is somewhere in calculations, and it could be bad for us.
If Nexon goes further with their influence on NCSoft and Anet – we can expect random armor and weapon boxes in gemstore and donate-only unique equipment. Yay. :/

I’ve seen some kitten Nexon games. That’s not good at all.

You really really are out of the loop of you think that Nexon influences this game. In fact, NcSoft has taken public steps to defend themselves against influence from Nexon who tried to influence NcSoft quite publicly and failed.

Your assertion that this is something that has to do with Nexon invalids any argument that comes after it.

Good if so) But everything before is based on th situation only. I don’t think they’ll anounce any changes soon, because if they do that will damage current sales.

Changeling Dash.4782:

Vayne.8563:

Changeling Dash.4782:

Omocha.4931:

Changeling Dash.4782:

But if they will tell this NOW – much less people will pre-purchase HotT. “Would be funny if not sad” situation.

Yup. Less people would get kinda scammed indeed. Ppl who already purchased will be a bit mad for having payed half the price just for beta access. But this particular kittenstorm will pass and with some honest statements (not sneaky PR policies) there will be a boost in good-will and trust levels. As such, I don’t know what’s better: Getting a good financial boost now with this approach or have a larger, healthy player base that will support the company in the years to come?!

Sadly, the answer to that is somewhere in calculations, and it could be bad for us.
If Nexon goes further with their influence on NCSoft and Anet – we can expect random armor and weapon boxes in gemstore and donate-only unique equipment. Yay. :/

I’ve seen some kitten Nexon games. That’s not good at all.

You really really are out of the loop of you think that Nexon influences this game. In fact, NcSoft has taken public steps to defend themselves against influence from Nexon who tried to influence NcSoft quite publicly and failed.

Your assertion that this is something that has to do with Nexon invalids any argument that comes after it.

Good if so) But everything before is based on th situation only. I don’t think they’ll anounce any changes soon, because if they do that will damage current sales.

You really need to do some research, because you’re wrong. Nexon has NEVER had influence over NCsoft and when they tried to exert influence, publicly, they were publicly rebuked. This is all a matter of public record.

Nexon did buy 15% of NcSoft, which is what all the rumors are based on. They had no people of their own on the Board, though, and the board makes all the decisions. Their stake in the company was silent.

Nexon didn’t like the direction NcSoft was going and so they produced a document, outlining the changes they were basically demanding. They also demanded a seat on the board. NcSoft replied to that document with a very public refusal.

NcSoft then entered into a stock sharing arranged with a third company to protect their company against a hostile takeover from Nexon.

The only reason anyone ever thought Nexon had influence over NcSoft is that Crystin Cox originally worked for Nexon, left and was hired by Anet. That logic is really poor. By that logic, Anet is run by Blizzard, because the three founders left that company and started here. People move around in this industry all the time. Reference URLs:

http://massivelyop.com/2015/02/17/ncsoft-buys-netmarble-stock-to-block-hostile-takeover-by-nexon/

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2015/02/133_173838.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2v7uyg/nexon_vs_ncsoft_official_proposal_revealed_to/

http://www.tentonhammer.com/news/guild-wars-2/nexon-versus-ncsoft-its-going-get-messy

There’s a lot more, but you get the idea.

Did not, I think. EotN came in with 18 instances that were actually a lot of fun to play. And the content was enjoyed and abused for many years to come.
And I believe that people who purchased FFXIV didn’t have to buy it again after it got reworked. And that they’ve were compensated for their purchase during the rework by not having to pay the sub. However, FFXIV did come with a pwetty new name afterwards… Guessing that adding “Heart of Thorns” to the game name doesn’t justify the $50 either then?!

Omocha.4931:

Did not, I think. EotN came in with 18 instances that were actually a lot of fun to play. And the content was enjoyed and abused for many years to come.
And I believe that people who purchased FFXIV didn’t have to buy it again after it got reworked. And that they’ve were compensated for their purchase during the rework by not having to pay the sub. However, FFXIV did come with a pwetty new name afterwards… Guessing that adding “Heart of Thorns” to the game name doesn’t justify the $50 either then?!

No but people who bought it didn’t get refunded for the $15 a month they spent before it got reworked and they had to wait a long long time for it to be reworked as well. The game got a second chance, which is kitten ed rare. It’s also more of a traditional MMO and I don’t particularly like playing it at all, not that I got very far. It feels antiquated though to me.

@Xar it’s not about the PRICE..it’s about what they offer for that price. What they showed so far…that expansion does NOT live up to it’s price tag. On top of that the way they marketed their packages for the expansion give vets a feeling of being left out compared and that anet is willing to do anything out of desperation for a few players more instead of rewarding vets also, in that process.

I would gladly throw 50$ or more on this game if what i receive was actually worth that money (AND I MEAN INGAME STUFF..not just useless marketing minis..and BS). The total amount of information they showed on the expansion (including the interviews which stated they don’t want to put in a big number of maps but instead want to concentrate on smaller areas but vertical – which means 1-2..max 3 maps) is at best worth 30…let’s say 40$ if they polish the F out of it and there are absolutely no gamebreaking bugs.

Ohoni.6057:

Here’s a real-world example. I’m very fond of the game The Sims. I’ve had every version since the original, and every expansion for said games (though I have skipped some of the “stuff packs”).

Every, and I mean every expansion for all those games has been released as a standalone that people didn’t get the base game free with. After a few months released as a standalone, some of the expansions (but not all) would be bundled with the base game as a way for new players to get in, but as I just said, that’s after they’d been out as a standalone for a while.

ANet’s problem is that they’re not letting us get the expansion separately, they’re going right to the bundle phase.

People keep looking at it wrong though. They look at it as “the price of the expansion was X, but then they added in the cost of the base game and made it $50, so they should let me buy it without the base game and it would only be X again!” (X in this case typically assumed to be $40)

NO.

That is not what happened.

What happened is that they priced the expansion at $50, that’s $50 WITHOUT the base game, and then they decided to throw in the base game for free, because why not? So now the base HoT pack costs $50, plus the cost of the base game ($0), resulting in a total price of $50.

And keep in mind, this is a pre-order bonus only. If you don’t own the game at all, and go into the store to buy HoT after launch, you’ll be paying $50 AND need to buy a copy of the base game (which will likely be at around $10 by that point).

So yeah, they should allow people to buy a copy of the expansion that does not include the price of the base game, if only to shut them up, but it’ll still cost $50.

WRONG – The pre-order is just that, a pre-order. There is no original core game to purchase anymore.
The night before HoT pre-order was announced the game was still available at full price.. next day it suddenly has a 100% depreciation tagged to it and anyone who bought it the night before, the week before etc just got screwed over royally.

To me the price the value the expac at is irrelevant, although I personally don’t feel it warrants the price tag its been valued at, but that is all subjective based on what we want, think, like, dislike on a personal level… just like anything.
For me it’s the elusiveness of what is actually in the expansion, when it’s going to go live, and the total irrelevance they have placed on existing players.. that kitten storm is what has put the brakes on me whipping out my debit card for sure.

I guess time will tell if we the players will tolerate this kind of bad smell sales approach… but hey for 3 years I was satisfied with what I got for my outlay, but going forward, I personally think ….not so much.

Entenkommando.5208:

Hexalot.8194:

B2P or not, I honestly don’t know how anyone could interpret what ANet is doing as being anything but a gouge. It would have cost them nothing (we are talking digital bytes here after all) to release the expansion as two versions… the standalone expansion at a lower price point for those who already have the game, and the bundled version at 50 bucks for the new players which saves them from buying game plus expac separately.

Because the expansion IS worth 50$ in their eyes.

An expansion that make the base game dissapear from sale.
Doesn’t look like an expansion to me.

papry.8096:

Entenkommando.5208:

Hexalot.8194:

B2P or not, I honestly don’t know how anyone could interpret what ANet is doing as being anything but a gouge. It would have cost them nothing (we are talking digital bytes here after all) to release the expansion as two versions… the standalone expansion at a lower price point for those who already have the game, and the bundled version at 50 bucks for the new players which saves them from buying game plus expac separately.

Because the expansion IS worth 50$ in their eyes.

An expansion that make the base game dissapear from sale.
Doesn’t look like an expansion to me.

Why would you want the base game?
1) you either already have it and therefore don’t need it
2) you get it for free when you pay 50$ for the expansion

there’s no need for a third option that only gives you the base game. No new player in his right mind would reject base game+expansion for 50$. And everyone who already has the base game won’t need it again.

Straylight.7529:

And everyone who already has the base game won’t need it again.

False: I own 4 alternate account.

I can name you a bunch of friend/guildies that also own scondary account.
So once again you are wrong.
Congrat.

Straylight.7529:

Why would you want the base game?
1) you either already have it and therefore don’t need it

you don’t know me. you don’t know my life. I have a mighty neeeeed.

Straylight.7529:

2) you get it for free when you pay 50$ for the expansion

as has been said many, many times, that statement is less than accurate, and that’s one of the main issues – people not getting the free core game.

Straylight.7529:

there’s no need for a third option that only gives you the base game. No new player in his right mind would reject base game+expansion for 50$.

• yeah, ’cos no one would want to try the base game, and see if they like it, instead of buying all in before they know if they want to play it.

• anyone who doesn’t have the $50

• any of the several reasons that someone might only want the core game

Straylight.7529:

And everyone who already has the base game won’t need it again.

• mule accounts, alt accounts, secondary accounts of various purposes.

• gifting to friends.

• and, once again, you don’t know me. you don’t know my life.

Xar.1387:

Ey, guys. I feel like most of you dont understand how B2P MMO works.
But thats understandable, cause there’s not much this kind of MMORPGs.
Most of you misjudged the situation.

Yeah, price of this expansion may be too high, if u compare it to the content which is going to appear in the begining of HoT, but ONLY when GW2 would be a P2P game.
Not B2P.
Cause then it may (and even should) cost like 10$ for an expansion like this, but then we would have to pay subscription to play more and discover next updates.
While here we pay for all this months or even years of playing.

And by the way, when it comes to the B2P games – if expansion comes, the basic game is no longer worth anything. We used it already. We paid for it and we used it. Even if somebody bought this game in the saturday (-75%) then he paid just for this few months before HoT – to lvl some characters, discover the world etc etc. The only losers are these people which bought it in the last month for a bad price, but Anet is probably going to help them. Anyway there’s not many of them, while almost all of you whine on the forums etc.

I hope Anet isnt angry cause of your behavior guys and they’re not going to do something wrong in the future, cause of the last situation.

Yes, the $50,- price is completely reasonable for a B2P game, and that is also why I am completely accepting that price.

However, GW2 has been behaving as a cash-shop game the last 2,5 year. And while I do not complain about the $50,-, I did complain about that.

There are also people who did not complain about the cash-shop focus but obviously now complain about the $50,-

So yes, $50,- for a B2P game is fine and GW2 was put on the market as a B2P game, but then they should also behave as a B2P game, having no focus on the cash-shop but releasing regular expansion that then indeed may cost $50,-.

If Anet would announce that is indeed how they want to go on further from this point out, I think it would make a lot of the complains go away (if people do trust Anet on indeed doing that). But as it stands many people see GW2 as a cash-sop game because really, for the last 2,5 years GW2 was a cash-shop game and not a B2P game.

papry.8096:

Straylight.7529:

And everyone who already has the base game won’t need it again.

False: I own 4 alternate account.

I can name you a bunch of friend/guildies that also own scondary account.
So once again you are wrong.
Congrat.

Please stay on topic. You said:

papry.8096:

An expansion that make the base game dissapear from sale.
Doesn’t look like an expansion to me.

And I tried to eplain to you that under the current circumstances (which is: core game given away for free as a bonus if you purchase HoT) it’s completely ok for the core game to disappear from sale since it’s already included when you purchase HoT.

Straylight.7529:

papry.8096:

Straylight.7529:

And everyone who already has the base game won’t need it again.

False: I own 4 alternate account.

I can name you a bunch of friend/guildies that also own scondary account.
So once again you are wrong.
Congrat.

Please stay on topic. You said:

papry.8096:

An expansion that make the base game dissapear from sale.
Doesn’t look like an expansion to me.

And I tried to eplain to you that under the current circumstances (which is: core game given away for free as a bonus if you purchase HoT) it’s completely ok for the core game to disappear from sale since it’s already included when you purchase HoT.

Nope; your statement as to why I don’t need Gw2 is that I already own it.
& I just prove to you that I do own multiple accounts for my own purpose.
Your argument is flawed, thank you.

papry.8096:

Straylight.7529:

papry.8096:

Straylight.7529:

And everyone who already has the base game won’t need it again.

False: I own 4 alternate account.

I can name you a bunch of friend/guildies that also own scondary account.
So once again you are wrong.
Congrat.

Please stay on topic. You said:

papry.8096:

An expansion that make the base game dissapear from sale.
Doesn’t look like an expansion to me.

And I tried to eplain to you that under the current circumstances (which is: core game given away for free as a bonus if you purchase HoT) it’s completely ok for the core game to disappear from sale since it’s already included when you purchase HoT.

Nope; your statement as to why I don’t need Gw2 is that I already own it.
& I just prove to you that I do own multiple accounts for my own purpose.
Your argument is flawed, thank you.

If you wanted additional accounts in the past you had to pay 60$ for each GW2 copy.
If you want additional accounts come HoT you have to pay 50$ and get core game+ expansion!

There is no reason for them to put the core game (without the expansion) on a separate sale.

Straylight.7529:

There is no reason for them to put the core game (without the expansion) on a separate sale.

So it’s an expansion that doesn’t require the core game on sale now ?
Interesting.

papry.8096:

Straylight.7529:

There is no reason for them to put the core game (without the expansion) on a separate sale.

So it’s an expansion that doesn’t require the core game on sale now ?
Interesting.

According to your own words from this other thread, yes:

papry.8096:

What do they sell now HoT not GW2 core.
These are two totally different situations.

Straylight.7529:

papry.8096:

Straylight.7529:

There is no reason for them to put the core game (without the expansion) on a separate sale.

So it’s an expansion that doesn’t require the core game on sale now ?
Interesting.

According to your own words from this other thread, yes:

papry.8096:

What do they sell now HoT not GW2 core.
These are two totally different situations.

I will rephrase that to you going in length as you really don’t get it.
During the 75% promotion, Anet was selling Gw2:core to existing players & new players.
I brought the offer I received GW2:core key just like a new player.

Now HoT that is promoted as an expansion get out.
new player get Gw2:HoT & Gw2:core for 50$
I receive Gw2:Hot for 50$

That’s a weird offer isn’kitten

Linken.6345:

Test.8734:

Xar.1387:

Yeah, price of this expansion may be too high, if u compare it to the content which is going to appear in the begining of HoT, but ONLY when GW2 would be a P2P game.
Not B2P.

The Gem Store, which happens to get updates more often than ANY other part of the game, and uses shaddy practices like a lottery system with unknown odds or the creation of inconvenience to sell convenience, is evidence that GW2 isn’t just B2P. It has a strong stench of F2P, and the worst kind of F2P while you’re at it.

Xar.1387:

2. Its really easy to destroy a pretty good MMORPG game, which is B2P. This payment model is rly risky. Do not be surprised if they will be forced to make P2W in the future.

P2W? Isn’t GW2 already the most P2W it could be? You can already use gems to buy the most powerful weapons in the game.

If you could buy weapons that were stronger then whats in the game that would be p2w

While I do not really use the term P2W a lot in combination with GW2, I am still not completely agreeing with you here. Your definition might be the definition many people use, but isn’t that really P2K (K = kill)?

This game is completely focused on cosmetics, not about killing, also for me stats don’t really interest me and because MMO PvP is so much focused on stats a kill does also not really feel like winning for me (it does in a FPS).

No, for me winning in a MMORPG is getting that special skill, hat cool mini, or that funny toy. I want to complete some hard content and then get an item like that as a reward, that is ‘winning’ for me. Liadri is a good example of ‘winning’ for me.

Now if you put most of the best looking items in a cash-shop, does that then not also count as P2W? It short of depends how you define winning.

Anyway, I completely agree with Test first half, for the second it really depends on how you define P2W but it’s not per definition false.