GW2 focus isnt on the journey though. The leveling experience is unimportant. Its much easier to level than other MMO’s but its also still very boring for veteran players. GW2 isnt supposed to be a grindy game. And one of the aspects that supports that is the leveling system. The fact that anet even introduced lvl 20 scrolls and lvl up tomes proves they dont feel the leveling experience is that important.
We will still have to do some map completion once we hit 80. Its not like we can completely skip everything.
Just because I instant level on my Revenant doesn’t mean I’m rushing it to the new zone. That’s where my old level 80s will be. On my Revenant I’m planning to stay in old Tyria and roam around. Complete some maps. Do the personal story. Make my way to Orr and then to Frostgorge, Southsun, the Silverwastes and Dry Top. While I’m traveling I’ll be learning how to play my new profession. All of Tyria will be my playing field.
If anyone wants to stay behind in Queensdale and Kessex while I’m doing that then whatever floats their boat. I’m heading on out. ^^
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
Yeah, I already mentioned, I won’t do it. It bugs me that there is even a way. It just omits everything with a win button, which is a degradation of gaming. The point in games is the journey, not the end.
The people doing this are generally the first who complain that there is nothing else to do.
So, that said: people will do it and I can’t do anything about it. It’s not that I can’t live with that. But I personally have my negative thoughts about it and I just wanted to express that. I get along with it.
But the thing is there are many ways, that many people have already pointed out.
Tomes/exp scrolls
WvW/EotM following a zerg
Crafting
Running an event chain on loop
None of those “teach” you how to play the class. I spent ~100 hours each leveling 5 of my alts. 2 others (thief and mes I think) I used EotM for 20-40 levels, and for my guard I used ~30 tomes and the rest was EotM because I just didn’t like playing her after the first 10-20 lvls in PvE (she now sits by a jp). Plus that was the only alt that had to do the NPE, so she sits traitless by a jp.
Nothing stops you from doing map completion on a lvl 80. Hell on my main, I did the maps “in order” of level, mostly because I needed more crafting mats at the time. By the time I finished the 4, 1-15 zones I was at least lvl 40 or something. And at least back then I had earlier access to traits/weapon skills.
Besides it seems Anet is focusing more on the journey AFTER lvl 80, than prior. With masteries being post-80 content, that’s the new journey. Why should people need to choose if they want to explore the new maps or level a revenant in the starter zones?
I leveled Thief and Necro hardway to 80. Necro was leveled at start of game and thief one months ago. I learned nothing from leveling them from 1 to 80, but I learned most of them by thinking how class and build works. Learning isn’t tied to playing or leveling class. Learning curve in GW2 is about prethinking Your strategy.
Preleveling class is good. More of a timesaver going than learning “whole” thing.
In GuildWars (from 1 to 2) You always be bad if You just play it and never think about it. Maybe in WoW this rule is right like Darth said but in GuildWars? Nah. You need to think thru it (or follow guides that other write).
Yeah, I already mentioned, I won’t do it. It bugs me that there is even a way. It just omits everything with a win button, which is a degradation of gaming. The point in games is the journey, not the end.
I’d argue the point of games is to have fun, the definition of which differs from person to person; would also like to argue that leveling shouldn’t be considered the journey in a game unless there is a crippling dearth of content.
Say you take 40 hours to level to 80 the hard way. You have 40 hours of revenant experience where you didnt have access to all skills and traits.
Whereas i instant level to 80 and play 40 hours of revenant gameplay on a full equipped character.
Who do you think will have a better grasp of the class?
The one who did the hard way ofc..
it’s way too obvious..the hard way really improves you with basic core class mechanics and improve your understand of the class.
then the ones who get all the fancy stuff from the beginning.
Say you take 40 hours to level to 80 the hard way. You have 40 hours of revenant experience where you didnt have access to all skills and traits.
Whereas i instant level to 80 and play 40 hours of revenant gameplay on a full equipped character.
Who do you think will have a better grasp of the class?
The one who did the hard way ofc..
it’s way too obvious..the hard way really improves you with basic core class mechanics and improve your understand of the class.
then the ones who get all the fancy stuff from the beginning.
I really dont see how you came to that conclusion. The time spent on the class is the same. So the player who has been able to use everything right from the beginning should know more. Assuming they do actually pay a minimum amount of attention to skills and traits they use.
And lets be honest. Players who dont read skills or pay attention to what they are doing wont learn anything even if they level the hard way…..
Say you take 40 hours to level to 80 the hard way. You have 40 hours of revenant experience where you didnt have access to all skills and traits.
Whereas i instant level to 80 and play 40 hours of revenant gameplay on a full equipped character.
Who do you think will have a better grasp of the class?
The one who did the hard way ofc..
it’s way too obvious..the hard way really improves you with basic core class mechanics and improve your understand of the class.
then the ones who get all the fancy stuff from the beginning.
I really dont see how you came to that conclusion. The time spent on the class is the same. So the player who has been able to use everything right from the beginning should know more. Assuming they do actually pay a minimum amount of attention to skills and traits they use.
And lets be honest. Players who dont read skills or pay attention to what they are doing wont learn anything even if they level the hard way…..
if you don’t practice in PvE for some time, and go directly to PvP with all skills available, it will be way harder to learn the class, because too many things are happening.
I believe every should be allowed to do as they please. As for the influx of players unfamiliar with their builds spoiling your fun, if you expect challenging open world group content to be reliably beaten on release day, with or without revenants, you are either not expecting a real challenge, or you grossly overestimate the ability of the general playerbase. Marionette, Battle for Lion’s Arch, the Breach and Vinewrath have taught me to lower those expectations. I don’t expect powerlevelled revenants to have a big influence.
Say you take 40 hours to level to 80 the hard way. You have 40 hours of revenant experience where you didnt have access to all skills and traits.
Whereas i instant level to 80 and play 40 hours of revenant gameplay on a full equipped character.
Who do you think will have a better grasp of the class?
The one who did the hard way ofc..
it’s way too obvious..the hard way really improves you with basic core class mechanics and improve your understand of the class.
then the ones who get all the fancy stuff from the beginning.
I really dont see how you came to that conclusion. The time spent on the class is the same. So the player who has been able to use everything right from the beginning should know more. Assuming they do actually pay a minimum amount of attention to skills and traits they use.
And lets be honest. Players who dont read skills or pay attention to what they are doing wont learn anything even if they level the hard way…..
if you don’t practice in PvE for some time, and go directly to PvP with all skills available, it will be way harder to learn the class, because too many things are happening.
In PvE you have way more downtime and you can more easily pick your fights to account for your experience, so I don’t think the comparison is valid. Even so, I am pretty sure the person who spends 20 hours in PvE and then 20 hours in PvP would have been more experienced if they had just spent 40 hours in PvP. It’s just that the first matches will be very painful.
Say you take 40 hours to level to 80 the hard way. You have 40 hours of revenant experience where you didnt have access to all skills and traits.
Whereas i instant level to 80 and play 40 hours of revenant gameplay on a full equipped character.
Who do you think will have a better grasp of the class?
The one who did the hard way ofc..
it’s way too obvious..the hard way really improves you with basic core class mechanics and improve your understand of the class.
then the ones who get all the fancy stuff from the beginning.
I really dont see how you came to that conclusion. The time spent on the class is the same. So the player who has been able to use everything right from the beginning should know more. Assuming they do actually pay a minimum amount of attention to skills and traits they use.
And lets be honest. Players who dont read skills or pay attention to what they are doing wont learn anything even if they level the hard way…..
if you don’t practice in PvE for some time, and go directly to PvP with all skills available, it will be way harder to learn the class, because too many things are happening.
In PvE you have way more downtime and you can more easily pick your fights to account for your experience, so I don’t think the comparison is valid. Even so, I am pretty sure the person who spends 20 hours in PvE and then 20 hours in PvP would have been more experienced if they had just spent 40 hours in PvP. It’s just that the first matches will be very painful.
Basically, you start your class, go PvE for some early level gameplay, get a hand of your core class mechanics and the general feel of your class, then you can go PvP.
If you just go Q tpvp directly like that, you will have a harder time learning your class, because too many things happening and randomly as well, so less time focusing learning how your class works. so it takes longer generally.
also if you just get all the fancy stuff from the start, you can’t focus on each skill much..
I’ll be insta-80’ing the Revenant, but I’m restricting myself to playing through the Personal Story and Season 2 to learn the class before I take him into any cooperative/competitive content.
It’ll grab me some first-hand experience with the class, some waypoints to begin with for quick-travel and starting Map Completion later on, bombing rewards like Black Lion Keys and more ToK’s, and lastly a refresher course with S2’s story.
I agree with all the folk saying you should be able to ToK your Revenant, since OPs argument can be carried over to ANY class (not just Revenant), but I’d also urge folk to practise a bit before jumping into cooperative/competative.
Based on the replies we’ve received in the thread so far, I’m not in the least worried. It’s the player’s skill, not the class, and the players in this thread seem to more than capable of playing a new class.
All 9 classes leveled and geared to 80!
Remnants of Hope [HOPE]: Tarnished Coast
Say you take 40 hours to level to 80 the hard way. You have 40 hours of revenant experience where you didnt have access to all skills and traits.
Whereas i instant level to 80 and play 40 hours of revenant gameplay on a full equipped character.
Who do you think will have a better grasp of the class?
The one who did the hard way ofc..
it’s way too obvious..the hard way really improves you with basic core class mechanics and improve your understand of the class.
then the ones who get all the fancy stuff from the beginning.
I really dont see how you came to that conclusion. The time spent on the class is the same. So the player who has been able to use everything right from the beginning should know more. Assuming they do actually pay a minimum amount of attention to skills and traits they use.
And lets be honest. Players who dont read skills or pay attention to what they are doing wont learn anything even if they level the hard way…..
if you don’t practice in PvE for some time, and go directly to PvP with all skills available, it will be way harder to learn the class, because too many things are happening.
In PvE you have way more downtime and you can more easily pick your fights to account for your experience, so I don’t think the comparison is valid. Even so, I am pretty sure the person who spends 20 hours in PvE and then 20 hours in PvP would have been more experienced if they had just spent 40 hours in PvP. It’s just that the first matches will be very painful.
Basically, you start your class, go PvE for some early level gameplay, get a hand of your core class mechanics and the general feel of your class, then you can go PvP.
If you just go Q tpvp directly like that, you will have a harder time learning your class, because too many things happening and randomly as well, so less time focusing learning how your class works. so it takes longer generally.
also if you just get all the fancy stuff from the start, you can’t focus on each skill much..
How so?
We’re talking spending the same amount of time. If I see something I don’t instantly understand or functions in a way I didn’t expect then I test it out and play with it. If I’m forced to level through I may understand my new skill/trait/whatever within 5 minutes oif playing with it, but then I gotta spend the next half our grinding away till I can grab another skill.
I have no doubt that I could get a better understanding of my tools by having them available to start and working my way through them at my own pace rather than being slowed down by a leveling process.
Hell, even if we had to level I’d probably bring it to the mists to unlock everything and play around with it there to test how skills work the best I can there so that I know what I want to get as I level up.
I really hope they don’t lock out tomes, I’ve heard rumors that they said they were, but i truly hope not. Flood me with Tomes when I alraedy have 1 or 2 of every current profession, but then make them unusable on the one character I’d want to use them on… that’s such a good idea…
They were asked in one of the interviews (dont remember which one) and they said they dont know. They are discussing all possibilities apparently. I severely doubt they will restrict it simply because it will cause some major outrage to many players.
If it is restricted then i know it will certainly kill my motivation to level a rev. I will probably wait until the restriction disappears if they implement one.
They were asked in one of the interviews (dont remember which one) and they said they dont know. They are discussing all possibilities apparently. I severely doubt they will restrict it simply because it will cause some major outrage to many players.
If it is restricted then i know it will certainly kill my motivation to level a rev. I will probably wait until the restriction disappears if they implement one.
If they’re going to restrict it, they had better give them a different personal story or something. They have already said that they would not be doing this, so I don’t see why they would consider disallowing it. Maybe there would be some caveat, but I can’t imagine what it would be. If people want to climb to 80, they should be able to.
Yeah, I already mentioned, I won’t do it. It bugs me that there is even a way. It just omits everything with a win button, which is a degradation of gaming. The point in games is the journey, not the end.
The people doing this are generally the first who complain that there is nothing else to do.
So, that said: people will do it and I can’t do anything about it. It’s not that I can’t live with that. But I personally have my negative thoughts about it and I just wanted to express that. I get along with it.
The new content is irrelevant for you being lv80 or not. You won’t be able to do so in day one because it’s something to do with Masteries not Revenant.
Also, the current way of leveling is more degenerating in terms of learning the class.
The best way to learn a class is from when you hit lv80, or when you try it in PVP.
In GW2, lv80 is just the BEGINNING not the END. If you think you reach the end by hitting lv80, then GW2 is probably not for you.
From what we’ve seen of the Wyvern, the problem isn’t going to be people knowing or not knowing their profession, the problem is going to be people blindly spamming CC rather than coordinating spikes. How long will it honestly take for an instant-level 80 Revenant to identify which of their skills are CC?
Will it really take the entire process of getting to 80?
Sounds like the OP and the person who designed the NPE are birds of a feather.
The people doing this are generally the first who complain that there is nothing else to do.
Couldn’t be further from the truth for me. I’m a pretty casual player, and have plenty of things left to do in this game.
I’ll be insta-level-80 on my Revenant because I can’t stand all of the silly gating along the way, especially with traits. Traits make a big difference in how professions play, and I’d rather enjoy the journey on a fully functioning profession rather than one that only has a couple of tools in his toolbox for most of the leveling process.
I’m a “get the chores done first, then play” kinda person.
I can see why someone would want to level the long way. I don’t think that idea is what is causing all the negative response to the OP. It’s the idea that he wants to force it on everyone else that makes people a little cranky.
Why would someone want to willing torture themselves through the worthless first 1-79 levels? You don’t learn your class fully into you hit 80.
IT is rather funny watching people act like the Revenant is a special class and not simply just a new class. Revenant isn’t special, the only thing different about it is the fact it was release 2-3 years after the first 8.
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
I’d rather people immediate level to 80 with tomes and then spend the time after that playing and trying out all their new skills than the usual of going to EOTM and running with a zerg through 80 levels of autoattack. Now THAT can’t be good for learning how to play.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
Really though the only valid criticism is that people won’t learn to play the class because they just boosted to level 80, but if you enter group content and don’t know how to play your class in at least the most basic way you will be booted. Aside from that they can just run around and do some easier content and learn to play. Interestingly enough at some point during the development on vanilla gw2 they considered making higher level areas scale you up but ultimately didn’t do it due to the reception of the idea of the player end, considering how much you’re going to actually be playing the leveling process is such a minor part of that it’s almost laughable. Might as well get into the real game as fast as possible, i say.
I’m sorry, but no…
If you take away tomes than you better take away EotM, swapping in dungeons, dungeons in general (since you can be carried), DE’s, most hearts, and wvw…
All of that content is stuff that doesn’t ‘force’ me to learn my mechanics because I can get carried through them.
“A conquered people will always resist you,
Edair. But allies-allies will fight by your side”~Cobiah Mariner
The OP has a point: the instant levelling takes away the ‘work’ and immersion a gamer usually has to reach the goal.
That’s really the gamer’s choice, dependent on the kind of player they are. I’m of the opinion that Anet should sell level 80’s in the gemstore. This game just isn’t hard enough to justify needing to level 80 times or forcing someone to be immersed when the immersion doesn’t change depending on the character.
I dont understand OP either. Who are those insta levelled 80 revenants going to ruin experience of? and in what game content?
PvP? Well everyone will be bad at first matched against any old classes? I dont see anything different here.
PVE? Well the time it will take you to level a revenant to 80 through questing and map completion is what you expect to be the actual learning curve right? By the end of it you expect yourself to know the ins and outs of the class and moderately understand how it works. Let us consider for the sake of arguement I will level my revenant to 80 instantly and jump into the Maguuma Jungle. How long do you think will it take you to level 80 by normal means? lets take 1 week as an average. By the end of 1 week you will still be bad as you just unlocked everything on your revenant and I did it from the start. I will have more experience with everything the revenant is capable of where as you will just start to see the synergies of different traits and skills after 1 week. Besides You will level your revenant in Tyria other than Maguuma and I will jump directly into Maguuma. You and me both do not cross each other in anyway. And if you are worried about failing quests in the new areas due to revenant. Well lets say there are no tomes of knowledge in game at start of the expansion release. Majority of people will want to level a revenant and only a few will go to maguuma with their old characters. They are bound to fail anyway with or without revenants if developers agree on what you suggest.
Last WvW? good guilds wont allow majority of their players running revenants as everyone will want to but if all run revenant the party composition will be affected specially for melee. Only randoms will run revenants as they are not controlled by any guild rules etc. You still have many uplevelled run in wvw and can consider them as one fully geared level 80 noobs. :p
So my question do you still have the problem with power levelling?
Centurion in Balkan legion (SFRJ) Warrior and Elementalist
Far ShiverPeaks
in any case not allow the use of the Tome of Knowledge for the revenant does not make sense, because if one play only Spvp, you can only use the tomes to raise the level, and were not allowed to have to change the account from tomes bound to character bound and this makes even less sense, because we all use the tomes additional exp alt-character
Oneday for giggles I decided to insta level a 2nd mesmer with ToK. Well, the NPE made this an incredibly painful experience. All the gate keeping that went on was just infuriating as a veteran player.
If I’m stuck without weapon swap, utilities, elite skills etc. because I can’t use ToK and forced to go through the NPE imma punch someone in the kahoonies.
A warrior, a guardian, and an elementalist walk into an open field…
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”
I am seriously hopping that the tomes of knowledge will be disabled from being used by the Revenant class.
I think it’s fairly safe to say that this is never going to happen. Everyone is just going to have to deal with level 80 revs at launch. I don’t know why this would really bother anyone, anyway.
Oh I have the tomes to make it to instant 80, I just don’t want to see a bunch of bads, running around, not knowing what they are doing and ruining everyone else gameplay just because they skipped the learning experience part.
Have you seen those players that instant level an ele to 80 and how bad they are?
Same concept.
Because you’ll be the expert at playing the Revenant when HoT launches? Why don’t you change your name to DarthElitist, it fits better.
So what about sPvP which is auto-80? And I get to see all the powers I have there so I can peruse them at leisure in the lobby or go nuts in the arena.
the reasons i dont think tomes will be disabled for revenant leveling:
*the same ‘insta-80’ can be achieved in a few hours via crafting
*one can join a borderlands run to gain tons of exp – and karma too. all you need is a hammer.
