Guild Wars 2

So I’ve got 46 tomes of knowledge sitting in my bank right now along with a birthday booster to get any character to level 20. The plan is to use them on a new revenant but I wonder if I’m going to destroy the experience in using them and being a instant-max char? I usually dont learn a class well until I’m max level(I’m still clueless on a lot of stuff on my engi and he’s been 80 forever), so does anyone who’s played a bit in the beta think its going to hurt the experience or won’t it matter?

Answer : No. Tomes of Knowledge are just fine, thank you.

It’s not an all or none situation. You can always just use the level 20 scroll get to level 20 instantly and then level while playing and use the tomes as wanted to speed up the leveling when you get bored or in a slow spot.

I feel like they should only be used if you have a level 80 character already. I completed my personal story and have no plans on doing that again on my alts.

I would say that the NPE is ruining the experience more than tomes of knowledge. Locking veteran players out of fundamental mechanics turns leveling into more of a laborious chore for vets than for many new players.

i learnt guardian in pvp then leveled it instantly to 80 with tomes so i could roam with it. having to play it in pve would have ruined the experience for me. 0% map completion is how i like it.

You don’t have to use them, some of us have no desire to “experience” the boring grind that is PvE. I plan to speed level it to 80 followed by trial, error, and laughs.

Haven’t you answered your question in your post? You admit that you don’t gain enough knowledge by using tomes. So yes, Tomes will ruin the experience.

Are you asking if it will ruin it for everyone? No, it won’t.

As someone with 15 level 80s, no thank you, to any tome changes plz.

I use them rarely, usually only if something in the leveling experience annoys me, and only 2-4 then. I imagine that’s why everyone uses them, even if it’s that they find the entire leveling experience annoying. I would not miss them if they would go away. I imagine others would miss them, though.

As to your issue. Only you can answer that. As Sorin posted, it seems like you already did. The question is, are you asking us because you want us to affirm your choice not to use them or talk you out of it?

I used them to get past slow humps. Like if I want to get to the next story or if I want to just get into the next zone already type of thing. I have well over 150 of them, but I control when I use them to preserve my experience.

Thank god for tomes. Just level all the way to 80 so you don’t have to suffer the NPE. You’ll have everything available to you and you can decide for yourself how many traits/skills you want to experiment with at a time.

Benty.7140:

So I’ve got 46 tomes of knowledge sitting in my bank right now along with a birthday booster to get any character to level 20. The plan is to use them on a new revenant but I wonder if I’m going to destroy the experience in using them and being a instant-max char? I usually dont learn a class well until I’m max level(I’m still clueless on a lot of stuff on my engi and he’s been 80 forever), so does anyone who’s played a bit in the beta think its going to hurt the experience or won’t it matter?

I could barely get thru PvE on 1 character so as far as I’m concerned it ruins nothing.

i have 240 ToK.

and no, ToK functionality is fine as it is now.

I am going to have two revenants on each account. Half will eat tomes and half will level starting at lvl 20.

What is NPE?……

SirDrygan.1823:

What is NPE?……

New Player Experience

SirDrygan.1823:

What is NPE?……

New player experience added, i think it was april 2014

As for the tomes, because of the automatic level scaling to the area, I don’t think they’ll ‘ruin’ anything if you already played at least one character up to 80. You’ll be above the ‘normal’ power level of the area, but not so much that everything around you dies if you sneeze the wrong way.

And on the plus side you’ll have all the abilities of the new class available for learning right away. You already learned the basic mechanics (weapon skills, utility skills, healing skill, elite skill, dodging, traits/specializations system etc), so you don’t get too large chunk of stuff at once even if you step straight away into 80.

You don’t have to use the Tomes nor the Birthday Booster to level up, its OPTIONAL.

Levelling serves no purpose other than to waste players’ time. Bring on the tomes.

Tomes of knowledge are amazing! I have used stacks of them when I want to change the race of a lvl 80 that I have gotten bored with. And I would have never had an engineer if it weren’t for them.

My revenant will be an instant lvl 80 and I already have ascended armor and trinkets waiting for her. Just need to decide on what stats to use. I’d rather play it in the new maps than repear the old content that I know by heart.

If you enjoy character development, learning curves, and content-based progression, then yes, instant leveling will ruin that part of the experience.

Then again, I also agree that the NPE already ruined the 1-80 experience so pick your poison.

Most of the classes, Revenant seems to be included, are easy enough to learn at 80. There’s not much to learn, the curve is pretty flat in this game, so that shouldn’t be the problem.

And of course by using the tomes you avoid playing through the New Player Experience. Goal No.1 in my opinion while leveling a character. Even new players I’ve shown GW2 really disliked the NPE in every way possible. Feels like an Asia Grinder, and that’s not how you want to experience this game.

Coldtart.4785:

Levelling serves no purpose other than to waste players’ time. Bring on the tomes.

and what do you do when you are 80?

I do a key run every time I get 8 of them. Levelling in this game is so easy, it’s much better to convert them into money imo.

But yes, the NPE is restrictive in a way that makes it very hard to not feel like your intelligence is being insulted. Is weapon swapping so complicated that you have to play for several hours before getting access to it? Are new players really going to struggle to use more than 2 skills at level 1?

It is possible to introduce mechanics gradually without actually restricting their use before the point you explain them. By all means explain how weapon swapping works at level 10, but dont restrict its use before then, etc etc.

Benty.7140:

So I’ve got 46 tomes of knowledge sitting in my bank right now along with a birthday booster to get any character to level 20. The plan is to use them on a new revenant but I wonder if I’m going to destroy the experience in using them and being a instant-max char? I usually dont learn a class well until I’m max level(I’m still clueless on a lot of stuff on my engi and he’s been 80 forever), so does anyone who’s played a bit in the beta think its going to hurt the experience or won’t it matter?

According to another thread about how progression of Revenant (or any other char created as Beta char in Beta slot for Pre-Purchased HoT) during BETA Weekend Event (BWE) [10. July to 13. July] will work: you will loose all progression when this event will be finished, so it won’t be of any use to use Scrolls at this moment for fast levelling (better to save those Scrolls for a later time when Revenant and HoT are ready for public release).

Benty.7140:

So I’ve got 46 tomes of knowledge sitting in my bank right now along with a birthday booster to get any character to level 20. The plan is to use them on a new revenant but I wonder if I’m going to destroy the experience in using them and being a instant-max char? I usually dont learn a class well until I’m max level(I’m still clueless on a lot of stuff on my engi and he’s been 80 forever), so does anyone who’s played a bit in the beta think its going to hurt the experience or won’t it matter?

In my opinion, the one thing destroying the experience is the NPE itself. As such, I’m very happy about the leveling scrolls and tomes offering a shortcut. I don’t see much of a learning potential when half your stuff is still locked out. Therefore, I believe the time you safe by using leveling items is far better spent with some theory-crafting/reading and then testing builds at level 80 (in the mists for example).

phys.7689:

and what do you do when you are 80?

Well, I start playing the game.

ShadowCatz.8437:

According to another thread about how progression of Revenant (or any other char created as Beta char in Beta slot for Pre-Purchased HoT) during BETA Weekend Event (BWE) [10. July to 13. July] will work: you will loose all progression when this event will be finished, so it won’t be of any use to use Scrolls at this moment for fast levelling (better to save those Scrolls for a later time when Revenant and HoT are ready for public release).

Isn’t it already datamined, that you receive a level 80 Revenant instantaneously with some basic equipment to start with?

Im pretty sure the OP is asking about using scrolls to level new characters once HOT comes out. Anet has announced (go read the announcement again), and everyone knows, that the BETA character will come as level 80 with a selection of gear and be temporary only.

Datamining has nothing to do with this, THAT is about the speculation as to what the remaining weapon and legends will be for the class once it is finished.

I have no interest in ever leveling via that boring time-gated user unfriendly system called the NPE. Tomes or go home.

For some it might do just that, abbreviating the lifespan of the character, or possibly letting them gloss over learning the class.

For others, who leveled 8 characters to 80 without a single tome, it’s going to alleviate the tedium of leveling a 9th.
I don’t plan to dump straight to 80 though, I plan to work my way up a bit slower, maybe using 1-2 tomes each time I gain a regular level as I’m one for whom skipping straight to the “what end game gear to get question” (something I’m still working on for 2.5 year old toons) would paint me into a corner, feeling like I have to decide which stats to continue but needing time to work that out.
I know this about myself so I’m trying to avoid it, I want to take some time to learn the class so I have a better understanding for when I reach that point (I powergrinded a couple others)

Genesis.8572:

I would say that the NPE is ruining the experience more than tomes of knowledge. Locking veteran players out of fundamental mechanics turns leveling into more of a laborious chore for vets than for many new players.

This.

Soooo…..I guess I’m confused. As a vet, what exactly is the NPE locking me out of again?

I just leveled a Sylvari Ranger (started her shortly before the specializations patch) and an Asura Guardian (started her like last weekend). They aren’t “done” yet (ie, haven’t hit 80), but I neither feel time gated nor locked out of content on either of them. Leveling is no more of a “chore” now than prior to the NPE patch, in fact it’s distinctly faster for me to get from 1 to 15 (less than 30 minutes of play time).

Granted, there are things I dislike about the NPE, but its no where near as horrid as a lot are making it out to be.

Kain Francois.4328:

As someone with 15 level 80s, no thank you, to any tome changes plz.

If I understood correctly the OP wasn’t asking for tomes to be changed, simply for opinions on whether using them on their first revenant would affect the experience.

I know I do much better at learning a profession if I level them up than if I skip to 80 by going to be the Heart of the Mists (never used tomes on a profession I didn’t already have). So if I make a revenant, especially if I intended them to be a permanent character, I’ll level them normally.

But I also like to keep at least 80 tomes handy (or 60 + level 20 scroll) so I can instantly level a character if I want to. Or like some other people said use a combination of the two.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Soooo…..I guess I’m confused. As a vet, what exactly is the NPE locking me out of again?

I just leveled a Sylvari Ranger (started her shortly before the specializations patch) and an Asura Guardian (started her like last weekend). They aren’t “done” yet (ie, haven’t hit 80), but I neither feel time gated nor locked out of content on either of them. Leveling is no more of a “chore” now than prior to the NPE patch, in fact it’s distinctly faster for me to get from 1 to 15 (less than 30 minutes of play time).

Granted, there are things I dislike about the NPE, but its no where near as horrid as a lot are making it out to be.

Early on you’re locked out of some things, for example rangers can’t control their pet at all (or even name them) until they get to level 5. And you now can’t get new healing skills until you unlock your first utility slot, you used to be able to get them earlier using skill points from challenges.

But I think a lot of the complaints about the NPE come from people who bought second (3rd, 4th etc.) accounts. A lot of things are locked completely until you get your first character to the level where they’re introduced, for example the wardrobe and minis, and the WvW and PvP menu icons are hidden (but you can still get there using the asura gates).

There’s also time gates put in to make it harder for gold sellers to use new accounts, like a cap on how much gold you can send/receive or using guild banks.

None of that applies to levelling alts on an existing account however.

Benty.7140:

So I’ve got 46 tomes of knowledge sitting in my bank right now along with a birthday booster to get any character to level 20. The plan is to use them on a new revenant but I wonder if I’m going to destroy the experience in using them and being a instant-max char? I usually dont learn a class well until I’m max level(I’m still clueless on a lot of stuff on my engi and he’s been 80 forever), so does anyone who’s played a bit in the beta think its going to hurt the experience or won’t it matter?

If you don’t like it then don’t use it. All new zones are level 80 anyway so leveling to 80 instantly if anything is the best way to get to the new content.

Danikat.8537:

Early on you’re locked out of some things, for example rangers can’t control their pet at all (or even name them) until they get to level 5. And you now can’t get new healing skills until you unlock your first utility slot, you used to be able to get them earlier using skill points from challenges.

I’d noticed the pet commands, though it didn’t really change anything from a low level perspective. It’s all pretty walk in the park-ish in starter zones. Those all unlocked relatively quickly given how fast you do level from 1 to 15 now, as well. And with the recent system changes, several things unlock sooner now as well. No, they haven’t gone back to launch unlock levels, but personally I think most of it is a relatively comfortable place. Like weapon swapping – was 7 at launch, was 15 with NPE (which I felt was a bit high), is 10 now. 10 feels comfortable, and can be achieved in 15-20 minutes.

I hadn’t noticed the heal skill. I’ll have to check that out when I roll my next alt (need a charr, light armor), and see if that is still the case.

Danikat.8537:

But I think a lot of the complaints about the NPE come from people who bought second (3rd, 4th etc.) accounts. A lot of things are locked completely until you get your first character to the level where they’re introduced, for example the wardrobe and minis, and the WvW and PvP menu icons are hidden (but you can still get there using the asura gates).

See, the people complaining, specifically cited that the NPE is a chore with time gating and locks for vets, which from my experience, there really isn’t much in the line of either. Yes, for vets with “new accounts” its probably mildly annoying, but it’s still not as horrid as they make it out to be. Many of the locks can be overcome in a very short amount of time, if not gone around entirely (as you already pointed out). If there were absolutely no way around it and it took hours of grinding to achieve just one level, then yes, I could see the complaint.

Danikat.8537:

There’s also time gates put in to make it harder for gold sellers to use new accounts, like a cap on how much gold you can send/receive or using guild banks.

The 500g a week cap was not part of the NPE. It came much later. Just like the previous trait system was not part of the NPE, it came before. People need to stop simply lumping things together like this.

Danikat.8537:

None of that applies to levelling alts on an existing account however.

Then they need to specify.

I’ve maxed a few of my.characters via ToK. It has not hurt the experience at all. If anything I’ve enjoyed it more. Knowing I can do what ever I want while mapping/doing PS, I don’t have to stop to level, or think I’d best stay away from (add mob name). I’m not high enough level.

Sorry but i learned both Necro and Warrior from PvP which is instant 80. I dont see how using ToK will hinder anybody development since you get the same skills eithet way with your choice of build to use. Figure out how you want to play it, just as somebody that doesnt use ToK figures it out.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Danikat.8537:

Early on you’re locked out of some things, for example rangers can’t control their pet at all (or even name them) until they get to level 5. And you now can’t get new healing skills until you unlock your first utility slot, you used to be able to get them earlier using skill points from challenges.

I’d noticed the pet commands, though it didn’t really change anything from a low level perspective. It’s all pretty walk in the park-ish in starter zones. Those all unlocked relatively quickly given how fast you do level from 1 to 15 now, as well. And with the recent system changes, several things unlock sooner now as well. No, they haven’t gone back to launch unlock levels, but personally I think most of it is a relatively comfortable place. Like weapon swapping – was 7 at launch, was 15 with NPE (which I felt was a bit high), is 10 now. 10 feels comfortable, and can be achieved in 15-20 minutes.

I hadn’t noticed the heal skill. I’ll have to check that out when I roll my next alt (need a charr, light armor), and see if that is still the case.

I agree it’s not a big deal, but it does bother me because I frequently make new characters, they’re often rangers and naming the pet was just part of my ‘new character’ routine, along with collecting the ring and golem banker from the mail and dying my armour. Every time I see ‘Juvenile whatever’ I think I’ve forgotten, go to change it and can’t.

Also I’m a bit paranoid after playing a ranger since launch. It’s gotten better now but some people used to be extremely anti-rangers, and uncontrolled pets in particular, so even in areas where it doesn’t matter I don’t like leaving my pet to just chase after whatever enemies attacked me 1st because I feel like I’m making all rangers look bad, and allowing myself to slip into bad habits. (Similar to how I feel like I need to say it wasn’t me and I don’t even have a longbow equipped every time I see someone use knockback inappropriately.)

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

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There’s also time gates put in to make it harder for gold sellers to use new accounts, like a cap on how much gold you can send/receive or using guild banks.

The 500g a week cap was not part of the NPE. It came much later. Just like the previous trait system was not part of the NPE, it came before. People need to stop simply lumping things together like this.

You’re right, the 500g a week cap isn’t part of the NPE. There’s a completely separate cap on new accounts which is gradually lifted over time.

When you first log into a new account you’re not able to send or receive gold or items. As you play the restriction is gradually eased off, you’ll be able to send small amounts then larger ones later on, but no one knows exactly what affects it (it’s thought to be some combination of time played, the highest level character on your account and achievement points but Anet won’t say so gold sellers can’t find a way around it).

This annoyed a lot of people who bought second accounts with the intention of mailing themselves gold and items to get set up and/or mailing the login rewards to their main account.

Similarly when you first join a guild you can’t access the guild bank, even if you have permission to do so. You have to wait (I think it’s 5 days) before you can deposit or retrieve items. There might also be a time-gate on joining or creating guilds, but I’m not sure about that one.

Sorin.4310:

Haven’t you answered your question in your post? You admit that you don’t gain enough knowledge by using tomes. So yes, Tomes will ruin the experience.

Are you asking if it will ruin it for everyone? No, it won’t.

I disagree with this in that after I finished my first 80 of any of the classes, I had nothing but real bad lazy habbits and in several cases, a really bad taste in my mouth from not having any clue how the thing was really meant to be played. Mesmer especially in this department, almost nothing of how it’s skills are truly supposed to work translates to PvE in general, let alone leveling. And I’m only now starting to work up the courage to go die horribly a lot to try and L2Mez proper.

So while there is a certain amount to be learned in the leveling process, you’re going to also hit level 80 still not knowing much of anything about your class, partially due to limitations on how many builds you can mess with given fairly limited resources for such things while leveling and the incredibly unstable nature of your gear (having to buy new or change somewhat frequently because of how fast you outgrow it).

Basically you are correct that somebody at level 80 will have no clue what now to do or how to play, but I say they are already ahead on the learning curve because they will have the build freedom that somebody bent on starting from level 1 will not.

However, if I wasn’t already burnt out on 20 level 80s across 2 accounts now, there could be some pleasure to be had in doing cold from the start. That, I think is the biggest thing to contemplate when deciding whether or not to insta-80 your Rev:

Will you have fun with this new class in the leveling process? Or is it just going to be a massive chore?

As you may have guessed, my personal answer is the second.

Danikat.8537:

I agree it’s not a big deal, but it does bother me because I frequently make new characters, they’re often rangers and naming the pet was just part of my ‘new character’ routine, along with collecting the ring and golem banker from the mail and dying my armour. Every time I see ‘Juvenile whatever’ I think I’ve forgotten, go to change it and can’t.

Ah, see, I never bother naming my pets because names don’t stick and I swap them around relatively often depending on what I’m doing. I really hope they fix that issue sometime in the near future.

Danikat.8537:

Also I’m a bit paranoid after playing a ranger since launch. It’s gotten better now but some people used to be extremely anti-rangers, and uncontrolled pets in particular, so even in areas where it doesn’t matter I don’t like leaving my pet to just chase after whatever enemies attacked me 1st because I feel like I’m making all rangers look bad, and allowing myself to slip into bad habits. (Similar to how I feel like I need to say it wasn’t me and I don’t even have a longbow equipped every time I see someone use knockback inappropriately.)

Valid point. I guess I’ve just gotten to the point where I just don’t give a rat’s kitten what people think anymore. It’s sad that its gotten to that point, but if people would stop just making assumptions about others, things would go so much smoother. But alas…people suck.

Danikat.8537:

There’s a completely separate cap on new accounts which is gradually lifted over time.

When you first log into a new account you’re not able to send or receive gold or items. As you play the restriction is gradually eased off, you’ll be able to send small amounts then larger ones later on, but no one knows exactly what affects it (it’s thought to be some combination of time played, the highest level character on your account and achievement points but Anet won’t say so gold sellers can’t find a way around it).

This annoyed a lot of people who bought second accounts with the intention of mailing themselves gold and items to get set up and/or mailing the login rewards to their main account.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Account#Limitations

Alright, granted if you purchase a second account to do some of the things you’ve mentioned, it would be mildly annoying. However, most of the limitations are reasonable. New accounts can receive, they just can’t send right away (not that its hard to get to lvl 6) for example.

Danikat.8537:

Similarly when you first join a guild you can’t access the guild bank, even if you have permission to do so. You have to wait (I think it’s 5 days) before you can deposit or retrieve items.

This has been in the game since launch, or very shortly after. Its 3 days, and again, its a valid restriction to have in the game (and it’s not uncommon, other games I’ve played have it too). There have been several complaints from people who invited people into their guilds, gave them vault access (like idiots), and then after 3 days ended up having their vaults cleaned out, and those new players just up and leave the guild. Its sad that we “need” such things in the game to protect us from ourselves, but apparently we do since a sizable chunk of people seem to lack the intelligence to manage on their own.

Danikat.8537:

There might also be a time-gate on joining or creating guilds, but I’m not sure about that one.

Maybe on creating, though I don’t think so. There isn’t one on joining, though perhaps there should be. Might curb some of the guild hopping, but I doubt it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It’s not an all or none situation. You can always just use the level 20 scroll get to level 20 instantly and then level while playing and use the tomes as wanted to speed up the leveling when you get bored or in a slow spot.

That’s my current plan. Previous plan was make a tome-80, but I think I’ll appreciate it more by poking it more slowly and finding skills I like to experiment with first.

Benty.7140:

So I’ve got 46 tomes of knowledge sitting in my bank right now along with a birthday booster to get any character to level 20. The plan is to use them on a new revenant but I wonder if I’m going to destroy the experience in using them and being a instant-max char? I usually dont learn a class well until I’m max level(I’m still clueless on a lot of stuff on my engi and he’s been 80 forever), so does anyone who’s played a bit in the beta think its going to hurt the experience or won’t it matter?

I don’t see how it would ruin the experience. So much of what is done while leveling is done at max level. I personally particularly like them because I enjoy doing the personal story and this way I don’t have to stop to level just to continue to do that.

Another thought is, you’ll be able to work on the Mastery stuff quicker so that would be helpful.

I level up completely 3 characters. 5 others were level up partially with crafting and then normally. Leveling characters is nice, but when you are at the 9th I just want to play at level 80 now. Thank god for the ToK.

Coldtart.4785:

Levelling serves no purpose other than to waste players’ time in my opinion. Bring on the tomes.

Fixed that for ya dude…not everyone plays the same as you.

eh, it depends. the levelling experience doesn’t really change all that much so after you’ve levelled a few different characters, then all it really is is repetition.

phys.7689:

Coldtart.4785:

Levelling serves no purpose other than to waste players’ time. Bring on the tomes.

and what do you do when you are 80?

Are you going to pretend that being sub 80 doesn’t lock you out of content?

The Tee Why.4807:

Coldtart.4785:

Levelling serves no purpose other than to waste players’ time in my opinion. Bring on the tomes.

Fixed that for ya dude…not everyone plays the same as you.

No, you did not fix it. You ruined it by adding a redundant statement. Of course it is his opinion. Do you honestly expect everyone to add IN MY OPINION to absolutely everything they type?

For someone that has played multiple characters to level cap and has them fully geared it’s really nice to not have to play though the base game again. The tomes are awesome as is craft leveling, pvp leveling, regular leveling etc.

Now if they would just get rid of this arbitrary gating system(masteries)all would be rosy. Not really, but it would be a good step.