Guild Wars 2

I’m mostly happy for announced trait changes, but one thing bothers me. Trait lines will no longer have attributes, and I know that the base stats of our characters will be raised from 926 to 1000, but I think that will be good and O.K. only for people whose armor/weapons attributes are the same as attributes from trait lines now.

What about those (including me) who have armor/wepaons with one set of attributes (let’s say berserker) and for traits they maxed lines with toughness or vitality or any different attributes? Those will have -300 toughness or whatever after changes (not exactly -300 considering 926>1000 overall stats boost).

I mean that I’m affraid there will be no compensation for so many points from DIFFERENT attributes than player’s armor/weapons. As an example I will focus on my thief. Link to my current build is at the end of my post. My build isn’t a standard one, but that’s how I like it. Anyway, as you can notice, most of my armor/weapons are berserker and for traits I went for full Shadow Arts line which (except needed traits) gives me +300 toughness and healing because I never wanted to go full glass cannon.

Assuming announced traits that I’m interested in won’t change, I will yet again go for Shadow Arts, Deadly Arts and Trickery, as I highly rely on stealth and stealing. But after changes, sticking to those lines won’t give me back any toughness and healing etc. except base boost (which won’t be +300) and I will automatically become a glass cannon with no additional toughness because of the removal of trait lines’ attributes.

This saddens me and so I have two questions. First, what do you guys think about such situations? I bet not everyone are running set and traits with the same attributes. And the second question – does Anet plan to give players single use possibility of changing stats of already aquired weapons and armor (equipped and laying in the inventory/bank) like it was done after removing magic find from attributes? Crafting half of ascended equipment again with different attributes not to become a glass cannon (or any other single-attributes-set) would be terrible.

My current build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZUQNAoYVlsMp7pFOxzJ0PNRLhw9vh387tuPCA-TxTAABYcEAMVFhJeQAYqaRDmUUTJYFHCgtWfUuAwBIIT1Q4TfALaYCaDglUSRwJAIAACwGrxacjBW5KX5KX5KbiTsErxA-e

and now imagine how bad it looks from the SPvP perspective where you have only 1 item with stats, runes and sigils when I remove the stats from traits… I’m afraid of this, I don’t want to wear just a glass amulet without at least some toughness…

For PvE and WvW this is not a problem since there characters can just mix and match equipment with different stats (zerker trinkets and armor that gives toughness for example). For PvP that’s a different story of course.

If with the new system zerker amulet will be too squishy then….don’t wear it? on the other side said amulet will be stronger, so, your choice

Gaaroth.2567:

If with the new system zerker amulet will be too squishy then….don’t wear it? on the other side said amulet will be stronger, so, your choice

that’s what I don’t like about it… it’s creating too big gaps between different specs because of predefined stats on amulets without many choices… I just hope it will be possible to compensate with traits, so I don’t need toughness when I have some cool defensive trait for example…

wait wait WAAAAIT.

this means Celestial will get a buff on ALL of the stats.

HOLY kitten

Zoltreez.6435:

wait wait WAAAAIT.

this means Celestial will get a buff on ALL of the stats.

HOLY kitten

Yes, it won’t be huge, but it will get a boost. All gear will have their stats raised a slight amount to make up for the lost stats in the trait lines.

MaXi.3642:

Gaaroth.2567:

If with the new system zerker amulet will be too squishy then….don’t wear it? on the other side said amulet will be stronger, so, your choice

that’s what I don’t like about it… it’s creating too big gaps between different specs because of predefined stats on amulets without many choices… I just hope it will be possible to compensate with traits, so I don’t need toughness when I have some cool defensive trait for example…

Imho THAT is the cool thing, and the main reason celestial is so popular: there isnt massive difference between a zerk/knight and cele raw stat wise (ofc there is but is not big) and that’s why people ends up preferring the latter.
With the new system a glasscannon will be really glass and really cannon unless u being some nice utilities

Rin.1046:

naphack.9346:

You need to compensate for 300 toughness, 300 vit or some variation of them?
How about the following choices:
Vit: Valkyrie
Toughness: Cavalier
Both: Soldier

Just switch two rings and you should make up for the stats lost from trait lines.
And now don’t say something about ascended rings being hard to get. They are not.

Actually, with the base stats of your character increasing you only need to compensate for 226 points. Which in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really amount to a lot. In PvP, and PvE, you will likely not notice much of a change in your performance, but you will notice the large benefit of having complete freedom to choose the traits you want, without worrying about the stats involved.

A really good move in my opinion. The next good move they can make is to change PvE and WvW gear to work exactly the same way it does in PvP (stats from the amulet and armour pieces just for defense and appearance).

You both are right, I don’t know why but I forgot about trinkets, and those are indeed very easy to get.
But, one of my points still remains kind of unsolved. Sticking to power and vitality attributes for example, let’s just assume that currently we have base of 100 points of each attribute and a full set with specific attribute gives +300. A player has 100 base power plus 300 power from set but is using full trait line that gives him +300 vitality. The patch comes live and now the base power is let’s say 200 and from set 400, but trait lines lose attributes. While the player gets a boost to vitality from base 100 to 200 (and all other attributes), the additional vitality by swapping trinkets to this type will decrease the power his build has.

I don’t know how to explain what I mean in english exactly, but my point is that base stats will increase, but they will be BASE stats, so the “whole game world” will be operating on that base (as it is operating now, on lower base stats), meaning that the loss of many points in specific attribute from gear (power from trinkets replaced by vitality in this example) will still be a big impact on a player’s previous (current) build. It will work the same way as if now that player swapped some or most of trinkets with others having different attribute, thus breaking the player’s build a bit. Am I right?

ZameR.4613:

You both are right, I don’t know why but I forgot about trinkets, and those are indeed very easy to get.
But, one of my points still remains kind of unsolved. Sticking to power and vitality attributes for example, let’s just assume that currently we have base of 100 points of each attribute and a full set with specific attribute gives +300. A player has 100 base power plus 300 power from set but is using full trait line that gives him +300 vitality. The patch comes live and now the base power is let’s say 200 and from set 400, but trait lines lose attributes. While the player gets a boost to vitality from base 100 to 200 (and all other attributes), the additional vitality by swapping trinkets to this type will decrease the power his build has.

I don’t know how to explain what I mean in english exactly, but my point is that base stats will increase, but they will be BASE stats, so the “whole game world” will be operating on that base (as it is operating now, on lower base stats), meaning that the loss of many points in specific attribute from gear (power from trinkets replaced by vitality in this example) will still be a big impact on a player’s previous (current) build. It will work the same way as if now that player swapped some or most of trinkets with others having different attribute, thus breaking the player’s build a bit. Am I right?

I think I understand what you are saying, however I do not think it will be an issue. Another thing to consider is that the move of removing stats from traits may also be part of a process to reduce stats overall. It may well be Anet’s intention to reduce top end damage and increase bottom end survival. By adjusting how stats are distributed, and limiting how you acquire them, they can keep a tighter control on balance. The same may be true of why we are limited to 3 trait lines.

They are granting more freedom in trait choice, by removing the stat constraint, and at the same time increasing the base line of stat distribution. It should, hopefully, kill two birds with one stone. I am hoping it will give us more viable build diversity and at the same time make balancing the game an easier job for Anet.

We just have to wait and try it out to see if it works or not, but in my opnion I think it is a good direction to go.

Doesn’t matter

Some traits give dps boosts and Zerkers will be falling back into the exact same line and trait build in no time at all. There is no point separating attributes unless you remove attribute changing traits from the trait list at the same time.

Out of interest, have they said what will be happening with the profession specific stats like burst skill recharge rate, pet attribute bonus, and steal recharge rate?

Or the attributes that have very little if any gear options like Condition Duration and Boon Duration?

Will we be getting more gear types added that provide those stats? Will gear providing profession specific mechanics be specifically class based, or will it be a universal stat that effects professions differently like mastery was in WoW?

removing stats from trait lines is a great move; tying stats to specific trait lines was always all downsides and no upsides from a design POV.

Agree, the only issue is sPVP, where one’s ability to allocate stats is already very restricted. It will no longer be possible to don zerker gear and balance it out by traiting lines with defensive stats.

We can only hope the missing stats can be re-allocated in a similarly flexible manner, eg: something similar to the amulet + gem system we had previously.

Eponet.4829:

Out of interest, have they said what will be happening with the profession specific stats like burst skill recharge rate, pet attribute bonus, and steal recharge rate?

Half of those bonuses are becoming baseline and the other half you get from specializing in the related specialization (i.e. beastmastery for rangers, arcana for elementalists and so on).

Eponet.4829:

Or the attributes that have very little if any gear options like Condition Duration and Boon Duration?

I think it was said that the duration of conditions and boons will be changed somewhat in order to compensate but don’t quote me on that.

Maybe they will add infusions for boons?

Diovid.9506:

Eponet.4829:

Or the attributes that have very little if any gear options like Condition Duration and Boon Duration?

I think it was said that the duration of conditions and boons will be changed somewhat in order to compensate but don’t quote me on that.

Traits that increase the duration on specific conditions are also having their effect increased.

What worries me is that GW2 seems to be doing the exact same thing that every other MMO expansion is doing. I.E. taking away a free range of choices and customization and replacing them with a more neatly packaged, simpler set of prescribed choices. No mixing and matching allowed.

This is the same thing WoW and SWTOR have done. I don’t see this as an improvement.

people should learn from their own mistakes and not be given prescribed perfect builds no matter what you choose cause everything will be fantastic anyway… the gemstore team starts to gain way waaaaaay to much influence on the game and they will ruin it imho. what does gemstore has to do with it?….just think about it, you will understand

ZameR.4613:

I’m mostly happy for announced trait changes, but one thing bothers me. Trait lines will no longer have attributes, and I know that the base stats of our characters will be raised from 926 to 1000, but I think that will be good and O.K. only for people whose armor/weapons attributes are the same as attributes from trait lines now.

What about those (including me) who have armor/wepaons with one set of attributes (let’s say berserker) and for traits they maxed lines with toughness or vitality or any different attributes? Those will have -300 toughness or whatever after changes (not exactly -300 considering 926>1000 overall stats boost).

I mean that I’m affraid there will be no compensation for so many points from DIFFERENT attributes than player’s armor/weapons. As an example I will focus on my thief. Link to my current build is at the end of my post. My build isn’t a standard one, but that’s how I like it. Anyway, as you can notice, most of my armor/weapons are berserker and for traits I went for full Shadow Arts line which (except needed traits) gives me +300 toughness and healing because I never wanted to go full glass cannon.

Assuming announced traits that I’m interested in won’t change, I will yet again go for Shadow Arts, Deadly Arts and Trickery, as I highly rely on stealth and stealing. But after changes, sticking to those lines won’t give me back any toughness and healing etc. except base boost (which won’t be +300) and I will automatically become a glass cannon with no additional toughness because of the removal of trait lines’ attributes.

This saddens me and so I have two questions. First, what do you guys think about such situations? I bet not everyone are running set and traits with the same attributes. And the second question – does Anet plan to give players single use possibility of changing stats of already aquired weapons and armor (equipped and laying in the inventory/bank) like it was done after removing magic find from attributes? Crafting half of ascended equipment again with different attributes not to become a glass cannon (or any other single-attributes-set) would be terrible.

My current build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZUQNAoYVlsMp7pFOxzJ0PNRLhw9vh387tuPCA-TxTAABYcEAMVFhJeQAYqaRDmUUTJYFHCgtWfUuAwBIIT1Q4TfALaYCaDglUSRwJAIAACwGrxacjBW5KX5KX5KbiTsErxA-e

I think they want everyone to have to re-gear.
If everyone has to re-gear:
1- It will stretch the time until the expansion
2- All the hardcore people that are impatient (like me) will buy gems to get it done faster if they don’t have the gold

A lot of things have to be answered:
- What happens to boon and condi duration?
- What about classes like eles, that run berserker gear and defensive trait lines, will they lose the survivability they had?
- No more build variety with 4-5 trait lines?
- What about useless traits (before useless traits still gave you a stats boost, but now they are just useless)

In the same position as the OP re. my Thief. I went pretty much full Zerk on equipment, mitigated a little by some trinkets – but mostly by the stats from the trait lines. I’ll lose +300 precision, +300 ferocity, +200 toughness, +200 healing power, +200 vitality (2000 health!), +20% boon duration. So given my equipment and the increased base I’ll probably get the first back plus some, but I suspect I’ll lose 50-100 toughness, healing power, and vitality + 100% of the boon duration boost. If its closer to 50 I can deal but if its closer to 100 in each, that’s a lot of sustain to lose on a glassy class.

Xillllix.3485:

- What happens to boon and condi duration?

Unknown but I have heard rumors that the duration of all conditions and boons will be adjusted somewhat due to this change.

- What about classes like eles, that run berserker gear and defensive trait lines, will they lose the survivability they had?

They will have to mix and match sets with different stats. At least, they can do that in PvE. PvP is a different story of course.

- No more build variety with 4-5 trait lines?

Nope, but then those builds weren’t really standard except for some exceptions. In exchange you basically get 4 more attribute points (i.e. you get 2 more major trait choices and 2 more minor traits). In addition people no longer feel obligated to take a certain trait line for the stats, which can create variety.

- What about useless traits (before useless traits still gave you a stats boost, but now they are just useless)

What do you mean ‘useless traits’? Can you give an example? And did you take into account that a lot of traits will be quite different in the new system?

So currently in the game we have gear with 4 stats. But this gear doesn’t provide much of a benefit compared to its 3 stat counterpart. At least this is true in WvW and PvE. In PvP its quite different. All gear is going to be getting a flat buff in order to compensate for the over all stat lose. This also means these gear types that have 4 stats rather then 3. So with these changes it opens the door to allow full sets of armor with 4 stats. And you might want to bring them. The change is good for Armor diversity. It gives you allot more then you think not having the stats tied to attributes.

Chillingsworth.9802:

What worries me is that GW2 seems to be doing the exact same thing that every other MMO expansion is doing. I.E. taking away a free range of choices and customization and replacing them with a more neatly packaged, simpler set of prescribed choices. No mixing and matching allowed.

This is the same thing WoW and SWTOR have done. I don’t see this as an improvement.

It wouldn’t surprise me they got the idea from NCSoft themselves. Aion just did the exact same thing with one of their recent updates. The selection of personalised ‘stigma’ skills got reduced from 12 slots to 6+1 slots. However this was compensated by making a few of those skills as standard/baseline. GW2 essentially did this with the traits, less options are granted but compensated by combining those traits into baseline or existing traits.

This was literally the single best decision Anet has ever made. Removing stats from trait lines and adding THOSE SAME STATS TO ARMOR is genius. It opens up so many specs it’s not even funny.

If you want to play Glasscannon now with a tiny bit of toughness or vit then just replace a single piece of gear. Done. Now are stats are controlled via gear like it should have always been.

[Suggestion][PvP]

for PvP split the amulets into 2 slots (not like it was previously, with amulet and jewel, the jewel’s stats were so small to barely make a difference). The two slots could still be named “amulet” and “jewel”, but the stats would be split 50/50, to be much more like PvE. the idea is to emulate taking armour pieces of one stat, and trinkett pieces of a different stat (ie zerker armour, knight’s trinketts)

(as it stands right now, the PvP zerker amulet is half zerker, half valkyrie. might as well make it so someone can choose to go full zerker if they desire, by taking zerker “amulet” and zerker “jewel.”)

this would offer better build diversity and easily compensate PvP characters for the loss of stat customization from the loss of stats in the trait lines.

I personally like the de-coupling of trait lines and stats. I would rather build more sustain in my bunker wvwvw build than having to take Ferocity because I want a trait. Ferocity is useless when you have 10% crit.