Guild Wars 2

Trayzer.7268:

anyway, i forced myself through some hero challenges, wasted a few gold for TPing from wp to wp to find accessible ones that didn’t pop up the stupid “you need mastery XY before you can access this area” window and with only 25 HP left to fully unlock reaper i’ll head back to wvw / core tyria to get them.

I also am easily frustrated from gating like on some hero-points, either through masteries or too hard mobs. But knowing myself well enough I waited for video-guides to do them (and to choose which ones to skip), though it feels almost a little like cheating as a lot are very easy to get that way.

Many GW1 players kicked up the same stink when GW2 came out. Guess what happened?

Trayzer.7268:

with such a hostile attitude.

Said the one calling everyboy on the forums super mario fanboys while engineering a artificial scenario where a-net was not totally open about the fact that they switched their design philosophy intentionally, LONG BEFORE they even opened the gates for pre-purchase…
You knew what you were ordering, and now you’re mad that you’ve wasted your money on something that you personally don’t like afterall. Tell me, is the lack of proper knowledge about your own preferences your issue, or a-nets issue?

There was no point in arguing with you in the beginning, we just come here for our daily ration of popcorn. Keep posting, m8.

Arantheal.7396:

Trayzer.7268:

with such a hostile attitude.

Said the one calling everyboy on the forums super mario fanboys while engineering a artificial scenario where a-net was not totally open about the fact that they switched their design philosophy intentionally, LONG BEFORE they even opened the gates for pre-purchase…
You knew what you were ordering, and now you’re mad that you’ve wasted your money on something that you personally don’t like afterall. Tell me, is the lack of proper knowledge about your own preferences your issue, or a-nets issue?

There was no point in arguing with you in the beginning, we just come here for our daily ration of popcorn. Keep posting, m8.

It’s an issue that everyone keeps perpetuating, stop preordering.

If the elitist grinders keep telling the casual explorers to just play another game, then that’s exactly what they’ll do.

That worked wonders for Wildstar.

Mike.7263:

If the elitist grinders keep telling the casual explorers to just play another game, then that’s exactly what they’ll do.

That worked wonders for Wildstar.

True. Its Wildstar all over again.

With one exception that Wildstar actually advertised as such.

Did you even make it beyond Verdant Brink? That map has the most verticality/platforming. The new maps are amazing and beautiful.

Anet has always intended GW2 to push innovation in the MMO genre. If you want something that is ‘traditional’ you should probably play a traditional mmo.

I’m not being judgmental here, I’m just saying that the risks ANET takes when making new areas are not going to stop. I’m not 100% certain that the next expansion will focus on verticality, but the metroidvania style seems to be the trajectory for the expansions going forward. The mastery system was put into place to feel like progression.

There are ways to do this WITHOUT back-tracking to old areas, but then you will have a huge loss of player density and wastelands of old content that nobody is playing in. This is what they’re attempting to avoid by giving you objectives to do in various parts of every map as you progress.

MikaHR.1978:

With one exception that Wildstar actually advertised as such.

Good point. The new specs were immediately available during the betas. Suddenly locking them behind hard grindwalls on release was a huge bait-and-switch.

Between that and the pricing bait-and-switch, I don’t know if I can trust ArenaNet with anything anymore.

“TL;DR Please Trivialize the game more!”
Seriously this post is the actual toxic thing.

Mike.7263:

MikaHR.1978:

With one exception that Wildstar actually advertised as such.

Good point. The new specs were immediately available during the betas. Suddenly locking them behind hard grindwalls on release was a huge bait-and-switch.

Between that and the pricing bait-and-switch, I don’t know if I can trust ArenaNet with anything anymore.

apart from the fact that they had always been stating that the elite specs were something that was going to need earning.
the elite specs were available in the betas for testin-…wait, you are aware that the betas weren’t just demos for you to see what you’d be doing exactly when the game came out, right? you’re aware that you were testing the content? that’s also why we tested raids. do you think the fact that raids weren’t available day 1 was a bait and switch because we got to beta test them?

it actually hurts me that people can be this ignorant.

Mike.7263:

MikaHR.1978:

With one exception that Wildstar actually advertised as such.

Good point. The new specs were immediately available during the betas. Suddenly locking them behind a grindwall on release was a huge bait-and-switch.

That was the point of the Beta so they could be tested. Hence “Beta Test”. I get it that you’re not happy but seriously some of these complaints are borderline ludicrous.

And before you jump on me as some “Elitist Grinder”, as you like to term them, I’m an explorer (I call myself casual but by definition, the fact that I’m on the forums excludes me from that title). I am enjoying the new maps. I am playing solo sometimes and sometimes with members of my guild. I sometimes die. I sometimes don’t. I am enjoying exploring the new maps and learning how to get from place to place. I’m enjoying some of the events (when they don’t break). I find the new adventures to be fun little diversions especially working out how to do them faster.

Do your research before you buy your products. Can the customer complain if….

I buy the upcoming SC2 expansion, go on the forum and complain it wasnt focused on the hybrids like I expected, everyone + their grandmother points out that Blizzard announced the fact that it’d be focused on protoss for ages before it was released
Or I buy battlefront and complain that it’s not a star trek game
Next I buy Dragon Age 3 and complain that it’s not a continuation of Mass Effect

Could go on forever…. Devs, change your games to suit me!

Raziel.4216:

Companies, change your product to suit your customers!

There, fixed that for you.

no matter how much people like to pretend its so, they arn’t the avatar of the silent majority.

Trayzer.7268:

i just spent 3 hours in the most toxic, anti-fun environment i have ever come across in an mmo

Playing on the American Servers perhaps? You should try the european servers everyone is either nice or you don’t understand what they’re saying (which I guess by implication means that they’re as good as nice).

Trayzer.7268:

feel free to make 2316784253641782135178635 SEPERATE areas where super mario fanboys can test their movement skills and feel good about themselves but spare the rest of us who just want to have a good time in the game and experience the content in a way we’re used to from the core game.

Firstly, how are you experiencing issues with the new movement mechanics? I mean I could somewhat understand people complaining about the Zepherite skills in Dry Top since some people are physically disabled and not capable of making the fine movements required to effectively use some of those skills, but bouncy shrooms are pretty easy to use, gliders aren’t really that challenging either.
Secondly, stagnation is a bad thing.

Trayzer.7268:

instanced zones or mini-dungeons for hardcore players are the way to go. ruining open world and story content for the sake of elitists is not.

What are you talking about? I thought you were complaining about the new navigation abilities they introduced, but there is nothing elite about them, so you can’t mean to say that adding gliders is somehow catering to the elitists?

Trayzer.7268:

anyway, i forced myself through some hero challenges, wasted a few gold for TPing from wp to wp to find accessible ones that didn’t pop up the stupid “you need mastery XY before you can access this area” window and with only 25 HP left to fully unlock reaper i’ll head back to wvw / core tyria to get them.

A few gold? WP fees are measured in 1-4 silver with a hundred silver being 1 gold. Had did you spend a few gold on way pointing? Unless you’re being hyperbolic.

Trayzer.7268:

reading must be hard for a blind man. anyway, as i said: i enjoy gliding, even the shrooms. but having a cool mechanic doesn’t mean it has to be used in such an anti-fun way. w/e no point talking to you with such a hostile attitude.

Oh look you’re insulting people. Yep that’s how you convince people of your position, insult them, and then claim you’re the one being attacked when they give it back to you as good as you gave it.

fireflyry.7023:

Many GW1 players kicked up the same stink when GW2 came out. Guess what happened?

I’m not exactly sure. What did happen?

Sicarius.4639:

It’s an issue that everyone keeps perpetuating, stop preordering.

Good advice. Sad that it never catches on.

I agree with toxic environment. But I can’t agree with HP nerf and things you say about HoT. They said everything important when they tell you about HoT first time. Challenging content. I dont understand why you buy product which you dont want play. I want play this game again because of HoT. I dont want easy content, you have a lot of easy content without HoT. Dont ask for more please. Find friends to help you. And thanks people like you for this stupid HP reduction. Character progress is gone! Everything unlocked. Really thanks.

CureForLiving.5360:

fireflyry.7023:

Many GW1 players kicked up the same stink when GW2 came out. Guess what happened?

I’m not exactly sure. What did happen?

Nothing?

The only grudge I have about HoT is the inconsistency of some enemies. especially archers and smoke dogs, as they seem to be able to render you dead in a matter of seconds. Also they’ve went a bit overboard with the “this can stun you” abilities as all monsters seem to have some way of lock you for seconds, combined with the high damage, meaning you’re dead if you’re stunned.

However, I have seen what “casual friendly” can do to an MMO, the perfect example being World of Warcraft. Draenor was suppose to be this dangerous, savage, land filled with dangers and what-not. All it ended up being was a theme park with safety rails all over the place to guide the players. The only real danger came from falling of a cliff, and I did that on many occasions due to falling asleep.

HoT isn’t perfect, but I like their attempt in making new content that’s challenging and dangerous without being locked behind an instance for the dedicated few. Everyone can pit themselves against the dangers of the jungle. A slight fine tuning might be in order at certain bosses but on the overall, I think they’ve made a surprising good job.

Pharazon.3095:

The only grudge I have about HoT is the inconsistency of some enemies. especially archers and smoke dogs, as they seem to be able to render you dead in a matter of seconds. Also they’ve went a bit overboard with the “this can stun you” abilities as all monsters seem to have some way of lock you for seconds, combined with the high damage, meaning you’re dead if you’re stunned.

However, I have seen what “casual friendly” can do to an MMO, the perfect example being World of Warcraft. Draenor was suppose to be this dangerous, savage, land filled with dangers and what-not. All it ended up being was a theme park with safety rails all over the place to guide the players. The only real danger came from falling of a cliff, and I did that on many occasions due to falling asleep.

HoT isn’t perfect, but I like their attempt in making new content that’s challenging and dangerous without being locked behind an instance for the dedicated few. Everyone can pit themselves against the dangers of the jungle. A slight fine tuning might be in order at certain bosses but on the overall, I think they’ve made a surprising good job.

most of the CC is super obvious though, stuff like Punishers or Arrowhead rolls… in fact offhand i cant think of any cc that isn’t easily dodgeable. though I am completely positive i’m missing something. :^)

@OP you have many other mmos without jumping puzzles/super mario feel, conversely there aren’t any that I know of that are like GW2 in this regard. For me it’s actually one of the ebst parts about GW2.

Jeeebus, how can people possibly consider hot content elitist. I am not even an average player and don’t find it a deal breaker at all. Frustrating at times, sure but that is what makes it a bit of a challenge. I only have 1 ascended (zerker btw) set so I swap between my mesmer and a new necro. The necro still has green and yellow jewelry while I patiently wait for laurels and I run him solo almost exclusively and have no major issues. Sure I do my fair share of dying but come on, if I wanted easy content I would go back to Tyria and play.

Mike.7263:

If the elitist grinders keep telling the casual explorers to just play another game, then that’s exactly what they’ll do.

That worked wonders for Wildstar.

I’m a casual explorer, and I’m loving HoT so far. I think the challenge level in the open world content is great. I think it is pretty silly to describe it as ‘hardcore’, IMO. So don’t presume that all casuals have the same objections you do.

I also think Wildstar has really nice open world content. Their problem was the marketing was all about dungeons and raids.

Bombastic.1428:

Jeeebus, how can people possibly consider hot content elitist. I am not even an average player and don’t find it a deal breaker at all. Frustrating at times, sure but that is what makes it a bit of a challenge. I only have 1 ascended (zerker btw) set so I swap between my mesmer and a new necro. The necro still has green and yellow jewelry while I patiently wait for laurels and I run him solo almost exclusively and have no major issues. Sure I do my fair share of dying but come on, if I wanted easy content I would go back to Tyria and play.

This is pretty much me. I’m playing on my Ranger, who has 1 ascended amulet, 1-2 exotic armor pieces, and everything else is a mix of greens and yellows. I die sometimes, but for the most part everything is fine, even running around by myself. I don’t totally get all the complaints. And I’m not a particularly good player—I don’t PvP, I don’t even do dungeons. And I suck at Super Mario Bros.

The only thing necessary to succeed in HoT is awareness and observation. Pay attention to your surroundings, study the mobs, figure out how to beat each one, and then you can explore the jungle safely. It doesn’t take hours of grinding, it doesn’t take leet gaming skills. You just have to be aware and use your head. This is EXACTLY the kind of content I like to see BECAUSE I am a non-elite, casual player. And if you can’t figure out how to beat smokescales or something, ask around and people will be happy to give advice.

And exploring the jungle becomes much more fun once you get your first few masteries done. Having the glider makes jumping around the jungle much more forgiving.

actually the funny thing is, once you get a few key masteries (glider, updraft, bouncing mushrooms), the zones are much less “super mario”, you rely a lot less on traditional platforming and jumping for movement and a lot more on masteries that make getting around so much easier. Instead of looking for a path to try and scramble up with jumps? I look for a mushroom to jump on that automatically takes me higher up. Instead of wondering if I can make that jump without dying.. I just glide and never die from fall damage.

Yea, I don’t think GW2 is for you…

I very much like the original GW1 and GW2 maps. Places like Queensdale, Timberline falls and Cursed Shore are all amazing and have provided me countless of hours of fun. Beautiful art direction and very natural feeling of real nature etc. But all the new maps after the launch of this game have been a big disappointment (this includes both spvp, WvWvW and pve). Maps like Skyhammer (spvp), borderlands with ruins (instead of lake) or the new Desert borderlands aka Edge of the Mists 2.0 are just abominations.

I also seriously dislike the new HoT pve maps. I always hated jumping puzzles and the requirement of gimmicky ways to travel from A to B. This reminds me of Dry Top, which is still probably the worst pve map in this game.

The challenge should the monsters, not the traveling! And there should not be constant fear of falling down. I love to fight and I excel in that. The new pve mobs are not challenging. You don’t even need to use the dodge button to defeat most of them. Just play a build which has enough AoE DPS and they all die reasonably fast. Even the group events and champions are soloable. I wish the designers would have spent more time honing the AI of the monsters, make them similar to the NPC AI of GW1, which was far superior than anything seen in GW2.

Luckily the specializations can be unlocked from WvWvW. There is still the Eternal Battlegrounds. I refuse to play the new borderland maps much. The more I play them, the less I like them. More lag, yet less enemies to fight (in fact you rarely even see other players). They are beautiful, but way too big, empty and difficult to travel and full of boring pve events. Anyways I just unlocked my main characters specilizations by playing WvWvW (mainly in EB) and I will do the same for other professions.

The designers should understand: Many players want more of the same e.g. maps similar to the great designs I mentioned (from Queensdale to Timberline Falls from Alpine borderlands to Battle of Kyhlo), instead of something totally different and too gimmicky, which just alienates big part of the player base.

I think the first zone really mirrors the storyline in that when you first drop into it, it’s kind of chaotic. It’s definitely not a friendly zone; it has a little bit of a learning curve. It also gets a lot better once you can glide, updraft, and use the mushrooms. Much easier!

The alcoholics like myself have it a little easier I think, grinding out those masteries. If you mess around the first two zones with 9 different toons, you will get those masteries pretty quickly.

I’m not sure why the OP seems to think open world content has to be designed to be completed solo by brain dead people with physical disabilities. There’s no reason at all that open world content can’t be challenging (and HoT is only slightly challenging) – particularly when we’re talking about an end game zone for veteran players.

If you don’t like platforming, go play any other MMO – this is one of the features that sets GW2 apart. If you don’t like playing in groups, then don’t play an MMO at all. There are thousands of other games without platforming and for solo players – why you’re here playing one full of features you hate is beyond me.

The literature prior to release definitely didn’t imply that the zone you get dropped into would be more like ruins of orr, vs a starter zone. That being said, I do like the new zones.

As an explorer at heart I strongly disagree with you Trayzer and Deniara Devious. A world filled with roads to follow and all objectives clearly marked on the map leaves little to actually do in the way of exploring and finding your way.

Now rather than kill some mobs, do the event, then run up the trail to the next spot we get to actually figure out how to get from point A to point B in an exciting way. Skies are now literally the limit as the glider + updraft functionality make navigation and travel go far beyond anything in any other MMO.

I didn’t start playing the Guild Wars series to ride a roller coaster, I did so because of the story and the exploration of it. That was over a decade ago. A dense jungle should not be a walk in the park, it should have complex physical obstacles to deal with and scary creature.

I am completely unable to play old maps now because they feel so slow and uninteresting to traverse.

Did OP just delete himself out of this whole thread.

Hmm never saw that before

I think there’s room for both combat and exploration in GW2, there’s a gazillion MMO’s out there with xp based vertical progression and levels and combat against mobs using skill rotations.

There’s almost NO use by ANY MMO with progression based on discovery and exploration and almost no other MMO’s out there that utilize creative ways of getting around the map as any form of progression. The only other games that utilize anything like gliding are AION and Archeage, and I guess flying mounts in WoW somewhat count.

There’s tons of games where slogging through a bunch of mobs’ hp bars is the focus of dungeons but only a few effectively use traps and environmental hazards as a real danger.

I actually welcome it when GW2 utilizes the environment itself as an obstacle to face, and I look at something on the map that I want and I actually sit there and look at it thinking “how do I get there?” That’s great, because in no other MMO do I ever find myself really doing that. I just walk up to their points of interest and “secrets”

In fact I find the most fun part of HoT being finding things, instead of just brute forcing my way through everything. There are already hundreds of MMO’s without any jumping puzzles or exploration in them where you can slog against bloated sacks of HP and grind xp bars.

I for one welcome the metroidvania aspects of HoT, and wish that the xp bar grinding part was gone instead. XP grinding is just the most boring part of the game.

Mike.7263:

Raziel.4216:

Companies, change your product to suit customers who bought it without knowing what you’re selling!

There, fixed that for you.

Extended your fix a bit

Raziel.4216:

Mike.7263:

Raziel.4216:

Companies, change your product to suit customers who bought it without knowing what you’re selling!

There, fixed that for you.

Extended your fix a bit

Agreed >_>

Raziel.4216:

Mike.7263:

Raziel.4216:

Companies, change your product to suit customers who bought it without knowing what you’re selling!

There, fixed that for you.

Extended your fix a bit

Btw your signature is pretty wrong. Grinding is doing something repeatedly over and over, nobody has ever talked about grinding in zelda or metroidvania games because there’s no xp bars to do the same thing over and over until you increase it.

Devildoc.6721:

Raziel.4216:

Mike.7263:

Raziel.4216:

Companies, change your product to suit customers who bought it without knowing what you’re selling!

There, fixed that for you.

Extended your fix a bit

Btw your signature is pretty wrong. Grinding is doing something repeatedly over and over, nobody has ever talked about grinding in zelda or metroidvania games because there’s no xp bars to do the same thing over and over until you increase it.

Since when did inconvenient facts stop people from complaining? O.o