Guild Wars 2

Where to report player if they use command tag to troll map meta event?

This wouldn’t matter in 99.9% of PVE content, but in a Dragon’s Stand map meta event a commander was intentionally causing disorganization in one of the lanes. It failed of course and thus the entire map failed. Somewhat annoying since the event takes so long and leystone armor requires grinding on this map. Maybe it would be better if individual lanes could succeed and still carry map? The other two lanes were perfectly organized and this really wasted everyone’s time.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Player_Conduct_Report

In other words, select ‘Botting’ via the Report window to have a GM monitor/review the player’s actions.

Good luck.

The problem will be determining if the commander did badly on purpose or if he was just a new commander to the meta and did badly due to inexperience with no ill intent at all.

If he didn’t say anything in chat that indicates that he was doing it badly intentionally, ANet won’t be able to prove that it isn’t just a bad commander that was too stubborn to take suggestions from the players who knew the meta better than he did.

This still reflects the problem with having to have all 3 lanes succeed in order for the entire map to go to the final fight.

The Tarir events actually work fine if fewer than 4 areas complete or even succeed. It still opens up the final fight inside the city and eventually, they can get into the basement areas even if only one room is open. The basement rooms only depend upon how many successful lanes completed the event.

I think the Dragon Stand event should reflect this as well, especially since so much is riding on the outcome of successful completion. So only 2 out of the 3 lanes complete successfully, that only means appropriate rewards for the ones that did succeed.

I disagree that the entire should fail because only one out of the total 3 lanes failed.

Seera.5916:

The problem will be determining if the commander did badly on purpose or if he was just a new commander to the meta and did badly due to inexperience with no ill intent at all.

If he didn’t say anything in chat that indicates that he was doing it badly intentionally, ANet won’t be able to prove that it isn’t just a bad commander that was too stubborn to take suggestions from the players who knew the meta better than he did.

They will probably find some evidence in the chat. The entire map was calling for the commander to stand down and he/she was making light of it.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

In other words, select ‘Botting’ via the Report window to have a GM monitor/review the player’s actions.

Good luck.

I actually reported it as “LFG Abuse” because I didn’t think any of the other labels fit any better. Eh, I’ll see what happens.

lynspottery.6529:

The Tarir events actually work fine if fewer than 4 areas complete or even succeed. It still opens up the final fight inside the city and eventually, they can get into the basement areas even if only one room is open. The basement rooms only depend upon how many successful lanes completed the event.

I think the Dragon Stand event should reflect this as well, especially since so much is riding on the outcome of successful completion. So only 2 out of the 3 lanes complete successfully, that only means appropriate rewards for the ones that did succeed.

I didn’t know this about the Tarir event. That makes a lot of sense. That would be lovely for Dragon’s Stand and Tangled Depths.

Comment on commanders and meta events: Although commanders aren’t needed for PVE events in general, the way HoT works has trained, encouraged, and rewarded players for following (even relying on) commanders, especially in the map meta events. Trolls are a thing and will always be a thing, but if a single troll with a command tag is able to disrupt the gameplay for 60+ players on a map and nose-dive an hour-long meta event into the ground (most eventually became demoralized and gave up), then maybe there needs to be some rethinking about how the event works.

If a whole lane carries on following a deliberately obtuse commander than that is down to those players. You can do any map without commanders. Sure they help form squads but mentors as markers are enough. I ran one with a brand new to DS commander, he said he led from behind, following the zerg that knew what they were doing.
Can’t blame one person for a fail lane or map.

uhm…. lol its the lanes fault fault.
just because someone is commander tagged does not mean that you have to follow them off the cliff
there is no commander tag limit (or if there is its not prohibitive at all), nothing stopping anyone else from tagging up
there is map chat so you could communicate maybe this person doesnt know what they are doing and could communicate what does need to be done
plus each individual player has a responsibility for themselves to have some idea what is going on

So you followed a crap commander? Why do you think Anet is going to do anything about players playing poorly?

To address the replies that say this is not an issue because the players in the lane were just playing poorly, it was their own fault, etc.:

1. To some extent, yes. However, this was still a problem for everyone because the other two lanes with adequate organization were still affected. Actually, the players in the other lanes were WAY angrier than the players in the disorganized lane. Some of them switched to the affected lane, but it was too late.

2. The fact that simply tagging up and goofing off could wreak so much confusion and anger during an event like this was really stunning. It’s maybe also indicative of how many players are “trained” to follow commanders, like I mentioned above. This is not a bad thing, but I really think an event as long as Dragon’s Stand (and TD, too) should allow for the event to continue in some form DESPITE the failure of a lane.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

uhm…. lol its the lanes fault fault.
just because someone is commander tagged does not mean that you have to follow them off the cliff

The lane failed and that’s fine, but it didn’t JUST affect that lane. It affected the gameplay for everyone on that particular map who was doing the meta event.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

there is no commander tag limit (or if there is its not prohibitive at all), nothing stopping anyone else from tagging up

Someone else did tag up. It was too late.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

there is map chat so you could communicate maybe this person doesnt know what they are doing and could communicate what does need to be done

There was a storm in the map chat trying to get the troll commander to tag down, but he/she didn’t and was poking fun at the situation. Ok, another person tags up to organize the lane, but it’s too late. Then frustrated people from other lanes (about 40 minutes in) give up and leave. This was a terrible waste of time for a lot of people, and doubly bad was that it had nothing to do with their personal skill. It was out of their hand and in the hands of someone in another lane having some me-me-me-time.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

plus each individual player has a responsibility for themselves to have some idea what is going on

I agree. The issue has to do with what I wrote above: the frustrations and wasted time of perfectly competent and organized players.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

In other words, select ‘Botting’ via the Report window to have a GM monitor/review the player’s actions.

Good luck.

That is the real issue here.

Although it’d be notice to selectively block commander tags. I noticed unchecking “Show all Commander tags” doesn’t seem to do anything.

“. The fact that simply tagging up and goofing off could wreak so much confusion and anger during an event like this was really stunning. "
And it’s also completely out of the dev’s hands. They provided us commander tags, and that’s it. Whether we (the players) choose to go full sheep mode and follow them to failure, or completely ignore them (and ultimately make com tags useless map clutter) is completely up to player behavior. We just happened to choose the first option.

This map has been around long enough and there are enough veterans there at any given time that I think it’s a little odd that the map was allowed to fall apart for so long before anyone had the chance to catch on and go “hey, maybe this guy isn’t really playing to the standard”.

Of course I’m not saying you shouldn’t report the guy. He definitely went out of his way to ruin the experience of other players, and should be punished accordingly. I’m just saying, before we start demanding the devs take action about commanders and the subsequent sheep mentality, maybe we should take a look at how WE behave. If the tag your following suddenly starts running you off in completely wrong directions, it’s completely on your hands if you just keep following it. Even when everyone else in the map is telling you your commander is incompetent. And it’s obvious that people kept following him, as there is no way one guy acting on his own (i.e. abandoned by his followers for gross incompetence) can possibly ruin the entire map.

clark.5839:

I agree. The issue has to do with what I wrote above: the frustrations and wasted time of perfectly competent and organized players.

The issue is that perfectly competent and organized players apparently let a whole map fail. They should be reported from the sounds of it.

clark.5839:

Comment on commanders and meta events: Although commanders aren’t needed for PVE events in general, the way HoT works has trained, encouraged, and rewarded players for following (even relying on) commanders, especially in the map meta events. Trolls are a thing and will always be a thing, but if a single troll with a command tag is able to disrupt the gameplay for 60+ players on a map and nose-dive an hour-long meta event into the ground (most eventually became demoralized and gave up), then maybe there needs to be some rethinking about how the event works.

This is not a new occurrence.

I first became aware it was a problem during the Queens Jubilee event back in 2013. Someone would tag up, other people would follow them and then complain that they were doing it wrong (either because the commander was genuinely bad or because they had a different approach), or weren’t focusing on the events that person needed for their achievements.

Or people would get into a full map and then stand around refusing to participate for an entire round because there wasn’t a commander on the map (tags were rarer back then) so “obviously” it was a dead map and there was no point.

For an extreme example I once saw someone screaming abuse in map chat because they’d entered the map, run all the way across it because they saw a commander tag and assumed they had to follow them, spent a few minutes wandering around behind them and then realised the commander was leading a guild event and there was no reason for them to be there at all.

Honestly my impression is that you certainly do get bad commanders, but it’s equally likely to get bad squad members who seem to think if there’s a commander around they can switch their own brains off and mindlessly follow them waiting for rewards to appear.

Without being on the map it’s impossible to say which occurred here (or if it was a mix of both) but I’d certainly avoid suggesting that the commander is always at fault. For one thing I suspect it puts some very knowledgeable individuals off commanding for fear of the reactions they’ll get.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

In other words, select ‘Botting’ via the Report window …

Good luck.

very tru, only thing u can really do

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

to have a GM monitor/review the player’s actions.

Good luck.

u wish they actually looked into/did anything about it. maybe if u get 20+ people to report it.

i always report, but i don’t expect anything of it

Well today Daily I tagged up for a bit. . I tag up because its players mentality to flogged into a map with commanders tags .Then I said in map chat that I’m here for daily. So here goes random angry map chat.

So I say they can just spam map join for days instead of starting something worthwhile.

Fortunately I have someone to relief the tag. So I don’t have to bail on Tower phase.

clark.5839:

To address the replies that say this is not an issue because the players in the lane were just playing poorly, it was their own fault, etc.:

1. To some extent, yes. However, this was still a problem for everyone because the other two lanes with adequate organization were still affected. Actually, the players in the other lanes were WAY angrier than the players in the disorganized lane. Some of them switched to the affected lane, but it was too late.

2. The fact that simply tagging up and goofing off could wreak so much confusion and anger during an event like this was really stunning. It’s maybe also indicative of how many players are “trained” to follow commanders, like I mentioned above. This is not a bad thing, but I really think an event as long as Dragon’s Stand (and TD, too) should allow for the event to continue in some form DESPITE the failure of a lane.

Showing exactly the fact that the players were just sheep and maybe even not knowing what needed to happen. I mean, we all know that even if the commander is garbage, good players know what to do in DS.

Just my two cents on this.

If it is a trolling commander and you reported we’ll see what the outcome is. However I never listen to commander most of the time (unless I need to and you know when the need is there) because like many there we know the event. Still not having a good commander however can hinder the progression especially if misdirecting whether on purpose or not those not used to the meta or new.

My advice as I have seen it once before is everyone leave squad and pop a new commander and follow that persons lead. That helped us once but not in DS.

NOW the pass / fail part of it. The timer stops once you reach end Dragon. This is the last HoT map and what it is all leading up to. To have one lane fail but still get to the Dragon is not true end game progression. Other HoT maps have progressions and you can still beat most map metas to a degree depending on tier or perhaps like AB where you down one of four, two of four, three of four or all four sides and depending on how many determines how far you travel underground for loots. There are other examples but hopefully you get the point.

Good luck in your next try!

Personally I think DS is fine the way it is because it is end game type of map. All or nothing.

I don’t think you can put this all on a commander. I also Don’t think a commander should be forced to stand down. There are squads and if the commander is doing poorly then you can tag up yourself and lead. With squad system its not hard to follow the right commander. If you are not in a squad then its on you.

A tag only has power if you support it. There can be 10 tags on the map you will only fail if you follow the wrong one.

Most people in DS do not even join the squads, even if told several times.
The reason why eludes me as they mostly do not even answer or seem to read map chat, making me think some people are just plain dumb when it comes to organized PvE play.

I heard reasons such as: I will crash more if I join a squad! leave me be.

What people do not realize is that squads in DS are needed so we can evaluate how many people are in each lane. If one lane has too many people, a commander can relocate some to other lanes.

So i guess, the reason for a failed DS because of just one lane is: people do not read map chat at all. When the entire map complained in chat about a commander and those in the mentioned lane STILL followed him, the blame is on the entire lane not on the trolling commander.

Sheep will be sheep.

Deepcuts.9740:

Most people in DS do not even join the squads, even if told several times.
The reason why eludes me as they mostly do not even answer or seem to read map chat, making me think some people are just plain dumb when it comes to organized PvE play.

I heard reasons such as: I will crash more if I join a squad! leave me be.

What people do not realize is that squads in DS are needed so we can evaluate how many people are in each lane. If one lane has too many people, a commander can relocate some to other lanes.

So i guess, the reason for a failed DS because of just one lane is: people do not read map chat at all. When the entire map complained in chat about a commander and those in the mentioned lane STILL followed him, the blame is on the entire lane not on the trolling commander.

Sheep will be sheep.

This is a good example of why so many won’t bother reading map chat or join a squad.

A good commander will be respectful and knows how to rally people to what ever the cause is. A bad commander stands around and calls people dumb and things like sheep. Let me guess, people ignore you.

Sorry CindiKa, but people IS dumb, generally speaking. Treating them well or bad rarely has any effect. Of course, some of them are commanders too…

Ardid.7203:

people IS dumb, generally speaking.

Not sure if deliberate or not…

I disagree on your point about commanders though. I find the more a commander treats me like the adult I am rather than the child they (possibly) are, the more likely I am to listen to them. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, as the saying goes. A lot of people would do well to remember that. I remember a DS meta a couple of months ago where mid’s commander wasn’t doing too well, help was offered by the other two commanders (in a polite way) and mid’s commander started trash talking and trying to flaunt his prowess at the game. Said commander then tried to claim he and his guild were the reason we succeeded at the meta. As I recall, the meta almost failed because he was so desperately overcompensating in chat because people had tried to help him out. It’s a shame that commanders like that put people off joining squads, especially when you’re trying to avoid upscaling.

CindyKa.6137:

This is a good example of why so many won’t bother reading map chat or join a squad.

PS: I never commanded anything. Do not even have a tag.
2nd, if because there are some bad commanders, people do not even read map chat…what can I say, bad commanders can affect your eye sight

Just added another reason people do not read map chat: it is the commander’s fault

I’d say it wasn’t the commander’s fault at all.

The commander can’t fail a lane. The people in the lane can fail a lane.

If the lane fails, its the fault of the whole lane, not one guy with a shiny icon over his head.

I could put on a tag in DS and stand around singing I’m a little tea pot for three hours and the map can still finish just fine.

Commander tags don’t give people authority. They just give them an icon and a chat channel. if the lane failed it was due to the rest of the people in the lane being too stupid to do it without a commander.