Guild Wars 2

I know for sure this post is gonna ruffle feathers and get a few people angsty, but I don’t like the idea of Specializations being restricted to level 80 characters. I think it’d be much more sound if they were Unlocked at level 40. Why? well, I have a few reasons;

1: Once you’re at level 80, you’re character just serves to play endgame content, I would much rather use the new playstyles offered to us by Specializations much earlier in my character’s career so I can enjoy the content of the game in a new way, rather than grinding up to 80 and having completed most the existing content already.

2: By the time you’re 80, you’ve spent quite a bit on weapons, skills, and traits to get your character the way you want, and then by changing Specialization, you’ve perhaps wasted quite a few resources you’ve used to get this far.

3: Level 40 is a nicely paced part of the game, where things start heating up and thus begins the character’s storyline beyond their racial origins. This kinda thing could breed new knowledge and understanding, allowing players to be educated in the ways of different Specializations.

4: More character progression. After level 31, you’ve practically got what you need in order. you’ve got access to all your skills, traits are unlocked and you’re free to do as you please, making the next 49 levels a bit of a bore sometimes. offering the opportunity to progress further at level 40 or so will help bring a little more reward to the second half of your character’s life.

5: Perhaps you’re planning a character to be the next profession, and perhaps you build correctly and save all your points up ready. But then… what if you don’t like the new profession? you’ve spent 80 levels to achieve something you don’t like. I feel if you learn what you do and don’t like much earlier, you can make a better recovery, build back into your primary profession and go from there.

I know a few people are going to say that new specializations are 80 level content because of the content in Heart of the Maguuma probably being level 80. I understand that much, but if HoT wants to integrate the expansion with the rest of the game, I feel this would be the way to do it for Specializations at least.

TL;DR – I want to grab a Staff Ranger and go into the world and see what it can do, not wait for level 80 and have all that experience pass me by playing a default Ranger, I’ve already done that… See what I’m driving at?

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

For a lot of people, their 1-80 levelling period is time to learn that profession, so then they can do actual content, knowing what they’re doing, but if they have to start over and learn something new at level 40, then they’re going to have 50% less experience using their profession by the time they’re 80.

Argon.1563:

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

I would have to disagree with this, since the large majority of the content in the game is designed for experiencing before level 80.

I actually think the OP has a good idea. Having to get new gear and weapons for a level 80 and try to learn how to use (basically) a new class in the Heart of Maguuma will be tough to say the least. Besides, let’s say we spend 20 gold on decent exotic weapons and gear and decide we hate the new specialty. That’s wasted resources. Maybe level 60 instead of 40, but the OP has a good idea, I think.

Argon.1563:

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

that’s literally the opposite of what GW2 is about. other MMOs “begin” at max level, and GW2 went firmly against that notion, which kittened off a lot of early players that rushed through content and found out there’s nothing exclusive to lv80s to do.

I thought the whole point of these new systems – Mastery and Specialisation – was so that level 80’s would have a way to continue progressing?

BrunoBRS.5178:

Argon.1563:

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

that’s literally the opposite of what GW2 is about. other MMOs “begin” at max level, and GW2 went firmly against that notion, which kittened off a lot of early players that rushed through content and found out there’s nothing exclusive to lv80s to do.

The entire point of the epxnaison is to give content for people AFTER level 80. That’s what they have been saying in all the interviews. The point of the expansion is to give players the chance to progress their character even after reaching the level cap. So what Argon is saying is totally accurate.

sigh…here we go…

specialization has nothing to do with masteries, it will completely replace the trait system and thus it would be foolish to use it post-lvl 80.
in terms of traits it will unlock way earlier then lvl 80 (i don’t know the exact level but i hope ether around lvl 15 or as it is now on lvl 30), in terms of weapon specialization it’s for now post-lvl 80 only. (since HoT is based on lvl 80 content and the release specialization for weapons can only be gained through HoT)

nGumball.1283:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Argon.1563:

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

that’s literally the opposite of what GW2 is about. other MMOs “begin” at max level, and GW2 went firmly against that notion, which kittened off a lot of early players that rushed through content and found out there’s nothing exclusive to lv80s to do.

The entire point of the epxnaison is to give content for people AFTER level 80. That’s what they have been saying in all the interviews. The point of the expansion is to give players the chance to progress their character even after reaching the level cap. So what Argon is saying is totally accurate.

“the point of the expansion is to provide more for the level 80 characters” – yes.

“the point of the game is that it only starts at lv80, leveling is just filler to learn the ropes” – no.

it’s a great idea but not plausible, since there putting such emphasis on the expansion which with the information given to date isn’t going to be all that big content wise, and to be able to implement your idea they would need to re-work the entire game which would be tedious in the long run.

Do we even know for sure specializations are unlocked at 80? I can’t remember this being stated anywhere.

Seems to be a heap of mixed feelings here.

For those that say that Specializations are a way to bring further progression to level 80 characters, you’re kinda half correct I guess? I mean, Specializations are purely optional, they’re not and upgrade, they’re a ‘sidegrade’, you can choose not to do them, the only benefit of them is a new playstyle, which I think would be handier much further back in the character’s life cycle.

Nothing about specializations is intended to make the character have the advantage over the others, from what I’m told. Even if they were unlockable at 40 or 60 or whatever, doesn’t mean level 80 characters can’t work towards it either, right?

BrunoBRS.5178:

nGumball.1283:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Argon.1563:

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

that’s literally the opposite of what GW2 is about. other MMOs “begin” at max level, and GW2 went firmly against that notion, which kittened off a lot of early players that rushed through content and found out there’s nothing exclusive to lv80s to do.

The entire point of the epxnaison is to give content for people AFTER level 80. That’s what they have been saying in all the interviews. The point of the expansion is to give players the chance to progress their character even after reaching the level cap. So what Argon is saying is totally accurate.

“the point of the expansion is to provide more for the level 80 characters” – yes.

“the point of the game is that it only starts at lv80, leveling is just filler to learn the ropes” – no.

None said that the point is to reach the endgame. There is TONS to do to reach level 80, not like Anet is going to prevent you from playing the old content. However, that doesn’t mean that you have to experience everything before level 80 because that would the level cap useless which alot of people have felt and left the game because of that mere reason.

When the game has more specific stuff for people who are level 80, it would feel more rewarding to reach the level cap where new types of content gets unlocked for you. It is a balance to statisfy players leveling up, at the same time, rewarding those who reach level 80 for their progression.

TheDaiBish.9735:

I thought the whole point of these new systems – Mastery and Specialisation – was so that level 80’s would have a way to continue progressing?

They keep progressing but arent those specialization only to be used on the new map?

Tyrannical.9348:

Seems to be a heap of mixed feelings here.

For those that say that Specializations are a way to bring further progression to level 80 characters, you’re kinda half correct I guess? I mean, Specializations are purely optional, they’re not and upgrade, they’re a ‘sidegrade’, you can choose not to do them, the only benefit of them is a new playstyle, which I think would be handier much further back in the character’s life cycle.

Nothing about specializations is intended to make the character have the advantage over the others, from what I’m told. Even if they were unlockable at 40 or 60 or whatever, doesn’t mean level 80 characters can’t work towards it either, right?

Regardless of whether it’s a sidegrade or upgrade, it’s still progression. Not to mention we have no idea on how we unlock Specialisations. Given how they’re exclusive to HoT, I can imagine the process being tightly linked with HoT content.

Players also already have a variety of playstyles they can use and try out as they level.

One Necromancer might use minions and stand in the back, another might be more in-your-face with a Dagger/Focus build and another again might focus on conditions.

Adding Specialisations in the levelling process would simply add another, all the while removing a form of progression from level cap.

Aeolus.3615:

TheDaiBish.9735:

I thought the whole point of these new systems – Mastery and Specialisation – was so that level 80’s would have a way to continue progressing?

They keep progressing but arent those specialization only to be used on the new map?

I don’t think so. I think it’s Masteries that are more heavily invested in the new map (though there will be a few others as well).

Aeolus.3615:

TheDaiBish.9735:

I thought the whole point of these new systems – Mastery and Specialisation – was so that level 80’s would have a way to continue progressing?

They keep progressing but arent those specialization only to be used on the new map?

No. Masteries will only be usable in certain areas, but specializations will be usable everywhere (new heals, skills, traits) so it would be a PR disaster for those not to be included in wvw, PvP, dungeons, etc.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Do we even know for sure specializations are unlocked at 80? I can’t remember this being stated anywhere.

They’ve heavily suggested that Masteries (stated to unlock at 80) and Specializations are linked, but that might be us reading too much into it.

Even if they are linked, Masteries are account-wide, right? It’s possible that you need a level 80 to unlock it, but can then use it on a lower level character of the same class? We don’t know yet, we need (a lot) more information.

Yes, please, because i want to study cardiology, but i dont want to fully complete the medicine carreer. i mean… really? how are you speaking about specializing on a profession you havent mastered yet?

It doesnt make any sense. Maguuma is a new land for every Tyrian characters, there in the junle we will leard things that we dint know, that land is VERY inospite, so only lv 80s can think of surviving there, specializations will only be mastered in maguuma, of course you can use it then after but you will learn it there.

Now lets talk about your points:

Point 1: Doesnt make any sense, Maguuma Jungle is an engame content, we have alreaddy enough lv 1-7x maps areaddy. If you ahve complete all the maps in your way and youre not lv 80 then look what are you doing, Maguuma is designed for explorers that have alfreaddy visited all places of of the available maps and want new challenges on the way to defeat a BIG KITTEN DRAGON, its not a minion, its not an aspect, its not a champion.. DUDE IS A DRAGON.

Point 2: few weapons? really? i know some weapon sets are better than others, but you cant kitten yourself on sticking on x to the death, every weapon set is better than X in Y situations. my mesmer is my main, on my mesmer i got X2 swords, x1 focus, X1 GS X1 Pistol and X1 Staff, i font use torches cause in pve they only brings a stealth and i got it covered by decoy, but even on some cases ive used a green torch for big skips timed with my other stealths). and if that weapon its Ascended or Legendary and youre not going to use it then just give it away to another of your characters.
Point 3 and on..: THink of this, Lore wise you got to kill Zaithan (wich is a lv 80 boss) for then going to the Jungle… Why i mention the jungle again? cause the specialzation is learn there, not cause its cool, not cause its more shiny , its cause its needed (lore wise) to survive there.Nuff Said

nGumball.1283:

None said that the point is to reach the endgame.

Argon.1563:

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

the game doesn’t “begin at 80”. that’s a horrible misconception that causes a lot of people to miss the point of GW2 and as a result can’t enjoy the game.

I agree 1000% with the OP. It’s the reason I logged into the forums today but the OP beat me to it.

My theory is they’ve settled on this level 80 number on the basis of feedback from existing players – who all would mostly have their characters at level 80 – and not on the basis of feedback from potential new customers or former players who might buy HoT. And I think it’s a big mistake.

I’ve only ever been an on-and-off player of GW2. Part of the problem for me is I’ve never been able to settle on a profession. I like the theme of some and the mechanics of others but can’t get everything in one package.

For example, I like the nature of theme of Rangers and pets are generally nice to have and spirits are cool but don’t care at all for their weapon skills. It’s just not my cup of tea. Druids are much more to my liking.

So say I’m a new player or someone who bought GW2 and no longer plays and didn’t level every profession to 80 but like the look of one of the specializations. What I’m faced is with is a barrier – having to level a profession to 80 that I don’t love and that’s a reason NOT to buy the game / expansion.

I think it’s along a similar vein to the mistake Anet made with changing the way players unlock traits. The original system, which from memory let you get your first GM trait at level 40, allowed players to get more of a proper feel for a profession by that point. Level 40 is obviously much easier to reach than 80.

For the record, I already have all but a few professions at or nearing level 80 – all the ones I care about – so none of the above was said for my own benefit. I have a lot of time to kill at the moment so when I read about HoT’s specialisations I decided to finish levelling a few professions I could never be bothered with before. But if they haven’t already I think Anet should invest a little money in focus group testing of former and potential GW2 players to get a better feel for this.

Caeledh.5437:

I agree 1000% with the OP. It’s the reason I logged into the forums today but the OP beat me to it.

My theory is they’ve settled on this level 80 number on the basis of feedback from existing players – who all would mostly have their characters at level 80 – and not on the basis of feedback from potential new customers or former players who might buy HoT. And I think it’s a big mistake.

I’ve only ever been an on-and-off player of GW2. Part of the problem for me is I’ve never been able to settle on a profession. I like the theme of some and the mechanics of others but can’t get everything in one package.

For example, I like the nature of theme of Rangers and pets are generally nice to have and spirits are cool but don’t care at all for their weapon skills. It’s just not my cup of tea. Druids are much more to my liking.

So say I’m a new player or someone who bought GW2 and no longer plays and didn’t level every profession to 80 but like the look of one of the specializations. What I’m faced is with is a barrier – having to level a profession to 80 that I don’t love and that’s a reason NOT to buy the game / expansion.

I think it’s along a similar vein to the mistake Anet made with changing the way players unlock traits. The original system, which from memory let you get your first GM trait at level 40, allowed players to get more of a proper feel for a profession by that point. Level 40 is obviously much easier to reach than 80.

For the record, I already have all but a few professions at or nearing level 80 – all the ones I care about – so none of the above was said for my own benefit. I have a lot of time to kill at the moment so when I read about HoT’s specialisations I decided to finish levelling a few professions I could never be bothered with before. But if they haven’t already I think Anet should invest a little money in focus group testing of former and potential GW2 players to get a better feel for this.

Yeah babe Druid is what is for you.. you know, cause we alreaddy got a full detailed mechanic of the druid alreaddy… Specialization is something that goes beyond to the main class. you you have to fully master what you got until you especialice in something not better.. but deeper and diferent.

All this is getting old… wait release… buy, play and if you dont like: Unistall.
Player base is as big as XXXXXXX, Anet wont matter about 2-3 Cry-baby that doesnt have an lv 80 yet even if they have the time till the release to just lv them, and change their mind.

And for new players, well kiddo, you gotta paint tha fense for yagamis then you will learn smething diferent based on what you alreaddy know.

Considering how leveling is now so heavily presented as a “learn to play” experience I’d say yes, give us specializations before lv80. Do it at lv40, or even 30 when you get traits to begin with.

The whole game up until 80 is spaced out to slowly unlock everything to get familiar with it. From the downed state, to using dye’s, vista’s, traits, skills, everything. And than a big game changer (allegedly) is dropped after the learning to play your profession phase.
As a result people who are level80 are going to run as level80’s playing something they are not nearly as familiar with.

For godsake the game doesn’t even trust the player to have all his utility skills (including Elite) until level30. Apparently feeling that this is the time and spacing needed for a new player to pick it up. But than it’s comfortable to suddenly drop all the stuff from a specialization on your head at once?

Either take me serious as a gamer and don’t bother spacing out everything to such a ridiculous degree in the first place. Or respect your idea you started with that players are kind of idiots and cannot handle big new changes all at once without it slowly being paced out with plenty of time to learn.

nGumball.1283:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Argon.1563:

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

that’s literally the opposite of what GW2 is about. other MMOs “begin” at max level, and GW2 went firmly against that notion, which kittened off a lot of early players that rushed through content and found out there’s nothing exclusive to lv80s to do.

The entire point of the epxnaison is to give content for people AFTER level 80. That’s what they have been saying in all the interviews. The point of the expansion is to give players the chance to progress their character even after reaching the level cap. So what Argon is saying is totally accurate.

Yes Argon is accurate but still shows that Anet was dishonest in that area. They said that Endgame starts at level 1, during the pre-release period.

But hey things change I guess.

I disagree for 3 reasons:

1) Levelling 1-80 is not hard.
Lots of people can tome their way there, others can grind it out pretty quick in EOTM. I know a lot of people will say they might want to enjoy the content slowly – and thats fine – but if you are eager to just try out specialisations then you will just have to do the content faster or once you’re lv80.

2) PvP
I am assuming that specialisations will be unlocked when you enter PvP (because it already unlocks so much). This assumption might be wrong, but if not then you can simply go try out the specialisation there from lv1.

3) Prestige
It would be nice if there was some prestige to specialisations. The achievement of hitting the top level and mastering your profession. Specialisations are not new classes so shouldn’t be treated as such. They are something to do once you have mastered your professions current mechanics. Its end-game diversity. Also bear in mind that most players have several lv80s, 90% if not more have at least one. That means they can already try out many specialisations.

Considering the way Specializations will change the way you play the game, replacing a trait line, adding new skills, and providing access to a new weapon, I’d personally like to be able to choose a specialization immediately at character creation.

If that’s the class I want to play why should I have to wait until any level to just jump right into it.

Also, this is very possibly going to be the case since there is a shot of a level 2 something, maybe Druid, during the live stream they ran last week, or so ago. They were trying to do an Adventure, the game crashed and they ended up back in the loading screen. You can clearly see a fighter, the character they were playing and two other low level characters, one of which has a symbol we’ve never seen before.

Yes this could be a uniquely Dev thing, but it could also be the reality of the game. We really don’t have enough information to say.

cyst.3108:

Yeah babe Druid is what is for you.. you know, cause we alreaddy got a full detailed mechanic of the druid alreaddy… Specialization is something that goes beyond to the main class. you you have to fully master what you got until you especialice in something not better.. but deeper and diferent.

I can’t believe this needs to be explained…. further.

Like I said, quite clearly, I like the NATURE THEME of Rangers but not most of the rest of the profession. Not to my tastes. While we don’t have excruciating details on Druids, we know they have more plant based attacks. That’s freaking awesome in my books. Much better than boring Ranger skills.

Specific mechanics… well it’s highly unlikely they could make them so bad that I wouldn’t want to play the profession and ANYONE else would. So I blow raspberries in your general direction, babe.

cyst.3108:

All this is getting old… wait release… buy, play and if you dont like: Unistall. Player base is as big as XXXXXXX, Anet wont matter about 2-3 Cry-baby that doesnt have an lv 80 yet even if they have the time till the release to just lv them, and change their mind.

Caeledh.5437:

For the record, I already have all but a few professions at or nearing level 80 – all the ones I care about – so none of the above was said for my own benefit. I have a lot of time to kill at the moment so when I read about HoT’s specialisations I decided to finish levelling a few professions I could never be bothered with before.

Has to be said – LEARN TO READ. I specifically said I have mostly level 80 characters. FYI that includes a ranger. It was pretty boring getting him there but I gritted my teeth and got it done. But if I hadn’t had so much time to kill right now, I honestly don’t know if I’d have bothered and there goes much of my motivation to buy HoT.

Caeledh.5437:

My theory is they’ve settled on this level 80 number on the basis of feedback from existing players – who all would mostly have their characters at level 80 – and not on the basis of feedback from potential new customers or former players who might buy HoT. And I think it’s a big mistake.

You think it’s a mistake to listen to feedback from those invested in the game over those who aren’t?

The thing is, if you remove Specializations from level cap, sure those leveling get a new toy to play with, but it still reduces the amount of post-cap progression quite a bit in the Horizontal Progression CDI, if I remember rightly.

People talked about how post-80 progression was lacking, and this is one of two system aimed at remedying that.

Terrahero.9358:

For godsake the game doesn’t even trust the player to have all his utility skills (including Elite) until level30. Apparently feeling that this is the time and spacing needed for a new player to pick it up. But than it’s comfortable to suddenly drop all the stuff from a specialization on your head at once?

Specializations are simply another way to play the profession, so it’s not really dropping a lot of stuff on your head at once.

At most we’ll have to learn a new mechanic and what our new skills and traits do.

Terrahero.9358:

Either take me serious as a gamer and don’t bother spacing out everything to such a ridiculous degree in the first place. Or respect your idea you started with that players are kind of idiots and cannot handle big new changes all at once without it slowly being paced out with plenty of time to learn.

While I agree that some of the spacing is ridiculous – I don’t agree on weapon skills being tied to level or Traits being so far in, for example – not everything is black and white as you make it out to be.

It’s not a case of them taking you, personally, seriously or viewing you, personally, as an idiot. Not all people that will be playing GW2 will be veterans of MMO’s, or even gaming for that matter.

The best way to keep the engagement of new players – which is what a tutorial is all about – is to open up the game in portions and give them time to digest what they’ve learned. Suddenly opening everything up and front-loading a bunch of stuff they have to learn straight away can be overwhelming.

Look at Portal, for example. That game spaces out what you learn when you need it, and Portal doesn’t have as half as many parts as an MMO.

I believe that was a revenant symbol, Kal.

Myrden.2456:

I believe that was a revenant symbol, Kal.

That actually makes a lot of sense, kitten .

I’ll say this;

I wont be too disheartened by Specialization being a level 80 thing, it wont make me wanna boycott the whole expansion. I just think mechanically introducing them much earlier on in the game is probably a sounder choice.

for those saying level 80 is a must for this, I see your point, you should learn to play the base profession first and then try. But, as said before, this game gives you a nice learning experience as you progress, and simply getting Specializations would result in as said so many level 80 players bumbling about with these new features entirely unsure what to do with them.

The reason say 40 is because I feel by that point you’re prepared to start trying new paths. you’ve handled your unique racial story, you’ve learned skills, traits, and all manner of other features, you’re ready to go onto bigger and better things.

I’ve no quarrel with having to get to 80 for a Specialization, if the devs view that as fair, but I personally feel you wont learn to grow into the new Specializations if you don’t actually progress them with levels.

You’d be getting loot as you progress that you can better learn to use and apply to your character, you’d still be earning skill points at a normal rate, and you’d have trait points you’ve yet to attain, and can wisely invest them in new features rather than having to revert everything. Besides, if it’s at level 80, it just feels like a small add-on to your skills, not a complete career change. something as grand as a career change is something more likely to be taken earlier, so you aren’t progressing into something you don’t want.

Caeledh.5437:

I can’t believe this needs to be explained…. further.

Like I said, quite clearly, I like the NATURE THEME of Rangers but not most of the rest of the profession. Not to my tastes. While we don’t have excruciating details on Druids, we know they have more plant based attacks. That’s freaking awesome in my books. Much better than boring Ranger skills.

Sorry to break it to you, but a druid will be like 90% the same as a ranger, you get ONE new weapon (so your 2nd weapon at least will be one of the weapons you ranger have now already), you get a few new traits (and loose one (likely one line, but haven’t been confirmed AFAIK)), as well as gain and loose a few utilities, so if it been so much of a pain to lvl your ranger i highly doubt druid will be enough to satisfy you

GummiBear.2756:

Caeledh.5437:

I can’t believe this needs to be explained…. further.

Like I said, quite clearly, I like the NATURE THEME of Rangers but not most of the rest of the profession. Not to my tastes. While we don’t have excruciating details on Druids, we know they have more plant based attacks. That’s freaking awesome in my books. Much better than boring Ranger skills.

Sorry to break it to you, but a druid will be like 90% the same as a ranger, you get ONE new weapon (so your 2nd weapon at least will be one of the weapons you ranger have now already), you get a few new traits (and loose one (likely one line, but haven’t been confirmed AFAIK)), as well as gain and loose a few utilities, so if it been so much of a pain to lvl your ranger i highly doubt druid will be enough to satisfy you

New Weapon
New Healing Skill
New Set of Utility Skills
New Elite skill
New Traits
New/Tweaked Profession Mechanic.

I’d say it’s more 60% the same as ranger, more so because you keep certain skills and traits, but not the same gameplay style.

Knighthonor.4061:

nGumball.1283:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Argon.1563:

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

that’s literally the opposite of what GW2 is about. other MMOs “begin” at max level, and GW2 went firmly against that notion, which kittened off a lot of early players that rushed through content and found out there’s nothing exclusive to lv80s to do.

The entire point of the epxnaison is to give content for people AFTER level 80. That’s what they have been saying in all the interviews. The point of the expansion is to give players the chance to progress their character even after reaching the level cap. So what Argon is saying is totally accurate.

Yes Argon is accurate but still shows that Anet was dishonest in that area. They said that Endgame starts at level 1, during the pre-release period.

But hey things change I guess.

No he wasent or he worded it incredibly inaccuratly, the expansion is to give more to do at 80 yes the original game begin at lvl2 you do the same stuff in open world at lvl 2 as u do at lvl 80. ( the only thing you cant do at lvl 2 that you can do later, is instance dungeons i belive )

And ofcourse expansion should add most of its content for 80 people game have been out 2½ years pretty much they need new content so anet dident lie during pre-release period

Linken.6345:

Knighthonor.4061:

nGumball.1283:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Argon.1563:

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

that’s literally the opposite of what GW2 is about. other MMOs “begin” at max level, and GW2 went firmly against that notion, which kittened off a lot of early players that rushed through content and found out there’s nothing exclusive to lv80s to do.

The entire point of the epxnaison is to give content for people AFTER level 80. That’s what they have been saying in all the interviews. The point of the expansion is to give players the chance to progress their character even after reaching the level cap. So what Argon is saying is totally accurate.

Yes Argon is accurate but still shows that Anet was dishonest in that area. They said that Endgame starts at level 1, during the pre-release period.

But hey things change I guess.

No he wasent or he worded it incredibly inaccuratly, the expansion is to give more to do at 80 yes the original game begin at lvl2 you do the same stuff in open world at lvl 2 as u do at lvl 80. ( the only thing you cant do at lvl 2 that you can do later, is instance dungeons i belive )

And ofcourse expansion should add most of its content for 80 people game have been out 2½ years pretty much they need new content so anet dident lie during pre-release period

Yeah, they did say it would offer more content to level 80 players, but they didn’t say that the expansion as a whole would be exclusive to level 80 players.

They stated that they’re trying to integrate as much as they can to the rest of the world too, meaning areas and challenges that are below 80.

Could you imagine if you’re a new player and you wanted the expansion like everyone else? you’d have no clue what to do, you’d question the presence of this so called expansion as you progress up the levels, you wouldn’t be able to reach this content you spent a good sum on until much much later… you’d feel cheated, right?

Tyrannical.9348:

Linken.6345:

Knighthonor.4061:

nGumball.1283:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Argon.1563:

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

that’s literally the opposite of what GW2 is about. other MMOs “begin” at max level, and GW2 went firmly against that notion, which kittened off a lot of early players that rushed through content and found out there’s nothing exclusive to lv80s to do.

The entire point of the epxnaison is to give content for people AFTER level 80. That’s what they have been saying in all the interviews. The point of the expansion is to give players the chance to progress their character even after reaching the level cap. So what Argon is saying is totally accurate.

Yes Argon is accurate but still shows that Anet was dishonest in that area. They said that Endgame starts at level 1, during the pre-release period.

But hey things change I guess.

No he wasent or he worded it incredibly inaccuratly, the expansion is to give more to do at 80 yes the original game begin at lvl2 you do the same stuff in open world at lvl 2 as u do at lvl 80. ( the only thing you cant do at lvl 2 that you can do later, is instance dungeons i belive )

And ofcourse expansion should add most of its content for 80 people game have been out 2½ years pretty much they need new content so anet dident lie during pre-release period

Yeah, they did say it would offer more content to level 80 players, but they didn’t say that the expansion as a whole would be exclusive to level 80 players.

They stated that they’re trying to integrate as much as they can to the rest of the world too, meaning areas and challenges that are below 80.

Could you imagine if you’re a new player and you wanted the expansion like everyone else? you’d have no clue what to do, you’d question the presence of this so called expansion as you progress up the levels, you wouldn’t be able to reach this content you spent a good sum on until much much later… you’d feel cheated, right?

Not if said on expansion clearly stated this is for 80 only and you think all your players can actualy read.

Linken.6345:

Tyrannical.9348:

Linken.6345:

Knighthonor.4061:

nGumball.1283:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Argon.1563:

The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.

that’s literally the opposite of what GW2 is about. other MMOs “begin” at max level, and GW2 went firmly against that notion, which kittened off a lot of early players that rushed through content and found out there’s nothing exclusive to lv80s to do.

The entire point of the epxnaison is to give content for people AFTER level 80. That’s what they have been saying in all the interviews. The point of the expansion is to give players the chance to progress their character even after reaching the level cap. So what Argon is saying is totally accurate.

Yes Argon is accurate but still shows that Anet was dishonest in that area. They said that Endgame starts at level 1, during the pre-release period.

But hey things change I guess.

No he wasent or he worded it incredibly inaccuratly, the expansion is to give more to do at 80 yes the original game begin at lvl2 you do the same stuff in open world at lvl 2 as u do at lvl 80. ( the only thing you cant do at lvl 2 that you can do later, is instance dungeons i belive )

And ofcourse expansion should add most of its content for 80 people game have been out 2½ years pretty much they need new content so anet dident lie during pre-release period

Yeah, they did say it would offer more content to level 80 players, but they didn’t say that the expansion as a whole would be exclusive to level 80 players.

They stated that they’re trying to integrate as much as they can to the rest of the world too, meaning areas and challenges that are below 80.

Could you imagine if you’re a new player and you wanted the expansion like everyone else? you’d have no clue what to do, you’d question the presence of this so called expansion as you progress up the levels, you wouldn’t be able to reach this content you spent a good sum on until much much later… you’d feel cheated, right?

Not if said on expansion clearly stated this is for 80 only and you think all your players can actualy read.

Well we won’t know for sure until it’s out. But I highly doubt EVERYTHING in this expansion is aimed at level 80 players.

And it probabely wont I dident bring it up you did

you wouldn’t be able to reach this content you spent a good sum on until much much later… you’d feel cheated, right?

Caeledh.5437:

My theory is they’ve settled on this level 80 number on the basis of feedback from existing players – who all would mostly have their characters at level 80 – and not on the basis of feedback from potential new customers or former players who might buy HoT.

Totally untrue. There’s an interview from WAAAAAAY back, that talked about how, when planning out GW2, it would either have a low level cap – like GW1 did at a mere level 20 – or a fairly high cap that people could work for but then just ends. As you know, they went for a 80-level progression. And it’s not because they let players loose with no level cap and decided “oh, level 80? That seems high enough”, but it was the end point they had already chosen. They also knew, just like in the first game, that the level cap and grind to the next level, isn’t all that fun. That’s why there’s no real gear grind, and you can get this strong gear numerous ways, not just repeating AC over and over and over again, hoping for it to drop.

As for the topic at hand, it’s not as if you will be picking one specialization and be done with it, or never able to go back to the base profession. It’s offering a new play style, a twist on the classes you’ve learned up until now. On my characters, I’ve often switched up which weapon I was using, based both on what I find and which skills I find most useful. I even found some utility skills interact better with some weapons than others. Moving to the specialization just means having to deal with a slightly different setup, and we’ll know much more after the deep dive (which just can’t come soon enough! It’s like Wintersday morning!) exactly how they will work, how we will learn them, and just how different they’ll be. We might even learn what all the specializations will be called (wishful thinking, I know).

Dante.8456:

I disagree for 3 reasons:

1) Levelling 1-80 is not hard.
Lots of people can tome their way there, others can grind it out pretty quick in EOTM. I know a lot of people will say they might want to enjoy the content slowly – and thats fine – but if you are eager to just try out specialisations then you will just have to do the content faster or once you’re lv80.

2) PvP
I am assuming that specialisations will be unlocked when you enter PvP (because it already unlocks so much). This assumption might be wrong, but if not then you can simply go try out the specialisation there from lv1.

3) Prestige
It would be nice if there was some prestige to specialisations. The achievement of hitting the top level and mastering your profession. Specialisations are not new classes so shouldn’t be treated as such. They are something to do once you have mastered your professions current mechanics. Its end-game diversity. Also bear in mind that most players have several lv80s, 90% if not more have at least one. That means they can already try out many specialisations.

This is one big contradiction.

1 you say it’s easy to level to 80 that it’s no big deal to get your specialization. Than at 3 it’s suddenly a prestige to have level’d to 80 and gotten your specialization.

2 is a contradiction with the whole NPE arenanet set up. Where apparently people testing stuff out in the mist’s doesn’t count and everything the game has to offer, not just their own profession, has to be slowly but steadily spoonfed with no big leaps or it might be to difficult for players to swallow. And than they propose a big leap at lv80.

Terrahero.9358:

Dante.8456:

I disagree for 3 reasons:

1) Levelling 1-80 is not hard.
Lots of people can tome their way there, others can grind it out pretty quick in EOTM. I know a lot of people will say they might want to enjoy the content slowly – and thats fine – but if you are eager to just try out specialisations then you will just have to do the content faster or once you’re lv80.

2) PvP
I am assuming that specialisations will be unlocked when you enter PvP (because it already unlocks so much). This assumption might be wrong, but if not then you can simply go try out the specialisation there from lv1.

3) Prestige
It would be nice if there was some prestige to specialisations. The achievement of hitting the top level and mastering your profession. Specialisations are not new classes so shouldn’t be treated as such. They are something to do once you have mastered your professions current mechanics. Its end-game diversity. Also bear in mind that most players have several lv80s, 90% if not more have at least one. That means they can already try out many specialisations.

This is one big contradiction.

1 you say it’s easy to level to 80 that it’s no big deal to get your specialization. Than at 3 it’s suddenly a prestige to have level’d to 80 and gotten your specialization.

No, what Dante said was levelling 1 – 80 wasn’t hard; not that getting the specialisation wasn’t hard.

Obviously the prestige in having the specialisation will depend in the process that it will take to get it.

Terrahero.9358:

2 is a contradiction with the whole NPE arenanet set up. Where apparently people testing stuff out in the mist’s doesn’t count and everything the game has to offer, not just their own profession, has to be slowly but steadily spoonfed with no big leaps or it might be to difficult for players to swallow. And than they propose a big leap at lv80.

A big leap?

At most the only things players will have to learn are:

• the new / tweaked mechanic
• what new skills and traits they got

Things that players would have learnt about through the levelling of 1 – 80.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Terrahero.9358:

Dante.8456:

I disagree for 3 reasons:

1) Levelling 1-80 is not hard.
Lots of people can tome their way there, others can grind it out pretty quick in EOTM. I know a lot of people will say they might want to enjoy the content slowly – and thats fine – but if you are eager to just try out specialisations then you will just have to do the content faster or once you’re lv80.

2) PvP
I am assuming that specialisations will be unlocked when you enter PvP (because it already unlocks so much). This assumption might be wrong, but if not then you can simply go try out the specialisation there from lv1.

3) Prestige
It would be nice if there was some prestige to specialisations. The achievement of hitting the top level and mastering your profession. Specialisations are not new classes so shouldn’t be treated as such. They are something to do once you have mastered your professions current mechanics. Its end-game diversity. Also bear in mind that most players have several lv80s, 90% if not more have at least one. That means they can already try out many specialisations.

This is one big contradiction.

1 you say it’s easy to level to 80 that it’s no big deal to get your specialization. Than at 3 it’s suddenly a prestige to have level’d to 80 and gotten your specialization.

No, what Dante said was levelling 1 – 80 wasn’t hard; not that getting the specialisation wasn’t hard.

Obviously the prestige in having the specialisation will depend in the process that it will take to get it.

Terrahero.9358:

2 is a contradiction with the whole NPE arenanet set up. Where apparently people testing stuff out in the mist’s doesn’t count and everything the game has to offer, not just their own profession, has to be slowly but steadily spoonfed with no big leaps or it might be to difficult for players to swallow. And than they propose a big leap at lv80.

A big leap?

At most the only things players will have to learn are:

• the new / tweaked mechanic
• what new skills and traits they got

Things that players would have learnt about through the levelling of 1 – 80.

Specializations are “optional”. I say that loosely as not specializing is also a specialization. So no, there is no prestige to having a specialization, and from everything arenanet said they want specializations to be very accessible.
So don’t hold your breath for an epic journey to understand Druidry, but expect a stroll to the nearest profession trainer and paying a sum of gold and poof you now understand Staffs.

As for the “not big changes”. As if getting another utility slot is a big change, getting an elite or your first trait. And yet still arenanet thinks these are all such drastic changes to your gameplay they all need to be carefully spaced out. Then it doesn’t make sense to all of a sudden throw that mentality out the window and say:
“screw it, just have everything. New weapon you never used before, new traits you’ve never seen before, new skills, change to the profession mechanic you spend 80 levels playing with, and we’re going to be taking traits and skills you have been using away”.

Okay okay, technically you haven’t used your profession mechanic for 80 levels because even that is level gated. That pet doesn’t follow your ranger because you command it or anything, it just feels like it until you hit an arbitrary number, upon which is wholly commits itself to your whims and every command.

I stand by what I said. Either commit to the idea that players are idiots in which case specializations are a drastic change to drop on someone’s head all of a sudden, or stop babying players to begin with and stop gating everything in the first place.

Terrahero.9358:

Specializations are “optional”. I say that loosely as not specializing is also a specialization. So no, there is no prestige to having a specialization, and from everything arenanet said they want specializations to be very accessible.

So don’t hold your breath for an epic journey to understand Druidry, but expect a stroll to the nearest profession trainer and paying a sum of gold and poof you now understand Staffs.

I didn’t say there would definitely be prestige in getting the specialisation. I said the prestige would depend on how the specialisation is attained.

Terrahero.9358:

As for the “not big changes”. As if getting another utility slot is a big change, getting an elite or your first trait. And yet still arenanet thinks these are all such drastic changes to your gameplay they all need to be carefully spaced out. Then it doesn’t make sense to all of a sudden throw that mentality out the window and say:
“screw it, just have everything. New weapon you never used before, new traits you’ve never seen before, new skills, change to the profession mechanic you spend 80 levels playing with, and we’re going to be taking traits and skills you have been using away”.

Well, I agree that the spacing is drastic, especially regarding traits and weapon skills.

However:

1. Players will have access to more weapons straight away during the leveling process than they will when they specialise. In other words, when you specialise you’ll be learning what one weapon can do, as opposed to the 3+ weapons accessible right from level 2.

2. You learn about traits and skills through the leveling process. The leveling process is what gives you – well, maybe not you personally – the knowledge and understanding of what works best with what.

3. In a sense, getting another utility skill is kind of a big deal. After all, it’s not simply another button to press. It’s another mechanic in which the player considers ‘how does this best fit into my build? How will this and that skill work together?’

Terrahero.9358:

Okay okay, technically you haven’t used your profession mechanic for 80 levels because even that is level gated. That pet doesn’t follow your ranger because you command it or anything, it just feels like it until you hit an arbitrary number, upon which is wholly commits itself to your whims and every command.

Isn’t that every MMO with a pet mechanic ever though? Unless you got some other way in which you’d do it (the only way I could see it being more immersive is a mini-game in which you bond with your pet).

Not only that, you have to consider some profession mechanics are more ‘deep’ than others. While you only have 2 or 3 buttons to do with the Ranger mechanic, the Elementalist mechanic involves 4 different attunements, each with their own playstyle.

Terrahero.9358:

I stand by what I said. Either commit to the idea that players are idiots in which case specializations are a drastic change to drop on someone’s head all of a sudden, or stop babying players to begin with and stop gating everything in the first place.

So you’re saying in them 80 levels players wouldn’t have learnt the nuances of the game in order to adapt to specializations? Specialisations aren’t the drastic change you’re making them out to be, especially considering the player has been learning the mechanics of the game for 80 levels.

The thing is, the gating isn’t for your benefit; it’s not put into place to slight you either, as you personally seem to be taking it.

It’s for the new players who are unfamiliar with the game and the genre. Just because someone is unfamiliar with the mechanics of the game, it doesn’t make them idiots.

Spacing things out is a way to ease people into the game, as opposed to throwing everything at them all at once and bombarding them with information and mechanics they’re expected to learn right off the bat.