Guild Wars 2

From watching the livestream it is evident that sweeping changes are being made to make support roles not only viable, but possibly required as a team comp member in pvp and possibly other game modes.

What bothers me is that by looking at the traits and comparing them to other classes, Venatari Rev is so far ahead of other classes when it comes to support capability and self sustain there is no contest.

While I agree that the damage only/celestial tank meta needs to die and that some iteration of the role based play (support, control, damage) will be better for the game…

I think with this unveil, it’s really important for them to go back through every single support skill and ensure that there are other classes that are capable of supporting on the level of revenant.

It would be really sad if revenant was the only de-facto choice for group support/healing.

What makes you so sure they are not also changing the vanilla professions with HoT?
It is in fact very likely that many skills will be rather different with all these changes.

As it stands now, Ventari just heals. It doesn’t bring many boons at all.

Last time we saw build oriented around raw healing with no boons was Healing Necromancer.

Know any?

You all seem to forget that the revenant can use 2 legends. I can see Ventari being a part of a rotation where you spawn the tablet and unload the heals, perhaps absorb a few projectiles and then go back into the other legend.

Also the fact that if you take Natural Abundance with Tranquil Balance and Shrouding Mists you get +60% outgoing heals and can heal a friend for over 4000 health every 2 sec for 10 energy with the tablet move skill as long as he picks up the tablet drop. That’s almost as much as a guardian’s shelter and that has a 30 sec cooldown.

A other mentioned in most cases it will not be optimal to stay in Ventari stance all the time. There will be phases where you need more healing or protection against projectiles. but there will also be phases where you better provide other boons and skills the class has.

I WvW it could open up new playstyles. A pure corsair battle will become way less efficient now. Tablets will block most of the projectiles. With so many heal and stab Revenants can provide it will be again more effective to ram the other ship.

Ingros.7801:

Also the fact that if you take Natural Abundance with Tranquil Balance and Shrouding Mists you get +60% outgoing heals and can heal a friend for over 4000 health every 2 sec for 10 energy with the tablet move skill as long as he picks up the tablet drop. That’s almost as much as a guardian’s shelter and that has a 30 sec cooldown.

Keep in mind that poison will stack soon. Beyond three stacks you can’t heal your target anymore. We can start to evaluate the Rev and Ventari as soon as all new features are working.

repost from another thread:

Have you looked into the canges to engineers inventions and explosives line?
Our bomb-on-dodge will get a trait to become a blast-finisher.
Our elite kit (mortar) potentially has blast-finisher as auto-attacks. (and the mortar itself already comes with a healing field)
In inventions we get a trait that allows ALL our blast-finishers to heal allies. (master in inventions)
We will clear 1 condi by default when using a healing skill (+the 2 from healing turret itself). (minor in inventions)
We will stack regen (not that we didn’t already had perma-regen) for each cleared condi on us and allies, (minor in inventions)
and here comes the overkill:
We get a trait that heals allies for a fixed percentage of ALL heals we receive. (grandmaster in inventions)
Run this with sigils of water & benevolence + monk runes in cleric or settlers gear and you have one hell of of a healing powerhouse…
Wouldn’t surprise me if they tweak the numbers to make bloodmagic necros a thing as well, since they already announced the implementation of vampiric aura anyways.

Belenwyn.8674:

Ingros.7801:

Also the fact that if you take Natural Abundance with Tranquil Balance and Shrouding Mists you get +60% outgoing heals and can heal a friend for over 4000 health every 2 sec for 10 energy with the tablet move skill as long as he picks up the tablet drop. That’s almost as much as a guardian’s shelter and that has a 30 sec cooldown.

Keep in mind that poison will stack soon. Beyond three stacks you can’t heal your target anymore. We can start to evaluate the Rev and Ventari as soon as all new features are working.

I’m pretty sure only the damage scales in intensity.

Or poison gets nerfed and only blocks 1% or 2% of incoming heals per stack, now THAT would make me lol.

Sagat.3285:

Belenwyn.8674:

Ingros.7801:

Also the fact that if you take Natural Abundance with Tranquil Balance and Shrouding Mists you get +60% outgoing heals and can heal a friend for over 4000 health every 2 sec for 10 energy with the tablet move skill as long as he picks up the tablet drop. That’s almost as much as a guardian’s shelter and that has a 30 sec cooldown.

Keep in mind that poison will stack soon. Beyond three stacks you can’t heal your target anymore. We can start to evaluate the Rev and Ventari as soon as all new features are working.

I’m pretty sure only the damage scales in intensity.

I am not completely sure. Look at poison master a GM traits for the Ranger. It inflicts two stacks of poison causing -66% heal effectiveness. For sure this can still change.

http://i.imgur.com/1PB9JAo.jpg

Belenwyn.8674:

Sagat.3285:

Belenwyn.8674:

Ingros.7801:

Also the fact that if you take Natural Abundance with Tranquil Balance and Shrouding Mists you get +60% outgoing heals and can heal a friend for over 4000 health every 2 sec for 10 energy with the tablet move skill as long as he picks up the tablet drop. That’s almost as much as a guardian’s shelter and that has a 30 sec cooldown.

Keep in mind that poison will stack soon. Beyond three stacks you can’t heal your target anymore. We can start to evaluate the Rev and Ventari as soon as all new features are working.

I’m pretty sure only the damage scales in intensity.

I am not completely sure. Look at poison master a GM traits for the Ranger. It inflicts two stacks of poison causing -66% heal effectiveness. For sure this can still change.

http://i.imgur.com/1PB9JAo.jpg

Yeah but they also said, when they announced posion stacking, that the healing reduction will NOT stack. So it is ether a tooltip error (most likely) or the trait itself simply increases the healing reduction.

lordkrall.7241:

What makes you so sure they are not also changing the vanilla professions with HoT?
It is in fact very likely that many skills will be rather different with all these changes.

Because they have already shown most of the traits, and it takes an act of God for Anet to actually change something once they have shown it.

dietzero.3514:

Because they have already shown most of the traits, and it takes an act of God for Anet to actually change something once they have shown it.

Traits != Skills.

Rym.1469:

As it stands now, Ventari just heals. It doesn’t bring many boons at all.

Last time we saw build oriented around raw healing with no boons was Healing Necromancer.

Know any?

Not sure why this is surprising, healers heal, tanks would provide the defensive boons.

Every PvP group will require a healer (Ventari specced rev), a tank (boon sharing defensive spec guard maybe), and 3 DPS. This will provide nearly 100% prot and stab uptime, AOE condition cleanses every few seconds, 3k healing per second to all allies, and 3 burst classes. Normal 5 dps teams will just melt.

lordkrall.7241:

dietzero.3514:

Because they have already shown most of the traits, and it takes an act of God for Anet to actually change something once they have shown it.

Traits != Skills.

So you are ok with the Ventari traits DOMINATING the traits of other professions, as long as skills are brought up to Revenant level?

Anyway, Anet will barely touch existing skills. They balance the game once a year, so that would clearly be too much work for them.

Until they are actually released we can’t know this. We have seen glimpses of changes made, and every time they have shown us stuff they have been rather clear that it is not final and might change quite a bit before release.

It is actually very likely that they will do quite many changes to existing skills. Especially considering the fact that certain changes that are being made REQUIRE them to change the skills as well.

I don’t have a problem with this honestly. Look at what you’re giving up as a Revenant by using a support build. You pretty much have to use staff, which is a huge kitten because it’s short ranged and it does no damage (and its your only weapon set) and then you have to use Ventari and Jalis, which once again do no damage and kitten you severely. Revenant is just going to be a very traditional version of support, sort of like an old school dedicated healer. Mostly heals with some protective buffs and condi removal. While every other class can spec into support through more interesting means (Guardian still destroys Revenant in terms of active support) and STILL do a ton of damage.

Heal Revs are going to be very useful as healbots in big team scenarios but in every other aspect of the game they’ll be useless. That’s the whole point of Ventari, he’s literally a pacifist, so a Heal Rev will only be useful when he can depend on his teammates.

Rym.1469:

As it stands now, Ventari just heals. It doesn’t bring many boons at all.

Last time we saw build oriented around raw healing with no boons was Healing Necromancer.

Know any?

With runes of Altruism and the healing skill on a 2 second cool-down you can keep near permanent uptime on 3 stacks of might and fury. With the traits you get from Salvation you can get a bit of regen and swiftness. Through Jalis you can grant a bit of stab. Right now the Revenant just doesn’t seem like a very boon-heavy role but we haven’t seen Shiro or glint yet. Glint might have some boon application.

Donut.6914:

and then you have to use Ventari and Jalis,

I can’t contribute much to theorycrafting as it’s just not a skill I have. But I do know this part is not correct. There are two more legends yet to be announced and Roy said more than once in the live stream on Ventari that there will be good synergy with the new ones, though he can’t say why just yet because they haven’t been revealed.

I would like to know if any changes to scaling healing power will be adjusted for HoT. So many Rev traits increasing healing by X% it looks like a devoted boost to healing, but w/o the math in front of me healing seemed to scale horribly around 700+~ currently on my Guard AH Shout build.

Unless all those traits are there so you don’t have to gear stat as much towards healing, but we also lose our trait stats for healing in HoT…dedicated healer role (even using other legends it’s quite the investment into traits for healing)/emphasis on healing has me a little loss.

Donut.6914:

I don’t have a problem with this honestly. Look at what you’re giving up as a Revenant by using a support build. You pretty much have to use staff, which is a huge kitten because it’s short ranged and it does no damage (and its your only weapon set) and then you have to use Ventari and Jalis, which once again do no damage and kitten you severely. .

Not necessarily. Based on the info that has been datamined I would more then likely go mace/shield. This gives you access to a fire field, triple blast finisher, protection with a heal and what really looks like a 3 sec block that heals you for about 935hp per pulse with 4 pulses. Now I know that the shield is not confirmed and is, at best, making an educated guess but man it looks nice.

The changes to Guardian traits – adding the +25% outgoing heal to the +300 Vitality GM trait could lead to some serious healing output on a dedicated life-bar watcher.

Donut.6914:

I don’t have a problem with this honestly. Look at what you’re giving up as a Revenant by using a support build. You pretty much have to use staff, which is a huge kitten because it’s short ranged and it does no damage (and its your only weapon set)

Personally I wouldn’t touch the staff if I was a ventari/healing revenant. Going into close-range while using the Ventari legend seems about as much of a good idea as walking into close-range as a glass staff elementalist.

lordhelmos.7623:

What bothers me is that by looking at the traits and comparing them to other classes, Venatari Rev is so far ahead of other classes when it comes to support capability and self sustain there is no contest.

Indeed, there’s no contest, seeing as Ventari legend offers no support beyond healing (and any healing levels beyond “enough” are meaningless anyway).

lordkrall.7241:

Until they are actually released we can’t know this. We have seen glimpses of changes made, and every time they have shown us stuff they have been rather clear that it is not final and might change quite a bit before release.

It is actually very likely that they will do quite many changes to existing skills. Especially considering the fact that certain changes that are being made REQUIRE them to change the skills as well.

It is Anet. Do I really need to say more?

New Base engineer: Blast Finishers heal, and heal skills are a blast finisher (with traits)

Healing turret: Use the toolbelt skill, which makes a water field and gives regen to nearby alies. Drop the turret, It heals the engie and blasts the waterfield, which produces TWO healing blasts. (THREE with runes) Overcharge the turret. It heals all alies, cures two conditions, gives regen, and creates a waterfield and Oh yeah, it’s still a heal skill, it blasts a second heal on top of the overcharge. Then you blast the turret in it’s waterfield. which double-heals again, AND knock-backs 5 enemies dealing them about 1000-1500 damage. So that’s around 4000-7,000 group healing (with another 2000-3000 to the engie) WITH a CC and damage. On a 20 second cooldown.

Eat that Ventari Revs, Medic Engie can now pump out crazy heals too.

Before someone tells me that won’t work quite THAT well because the trait will have an internal CD, yeah, you’re actually probably right, though you might be able to space that combo out if that CD is 5-10 seconds. Medic Engie will still be a thing either way because you can just take the new medkit and flip it on and off for the heal-blasts while spamming it’s new aly-targeting healing spray.

At any rate, what I’m getting at, is the new Engineer inventions line can probably give Ventari a run for it’s money for heal support.

Numbers are subject to change and productive discussion will only involve the mechanics. They said during the Ventari stream that the numbers need tweaked, likely toned down.

Have any of you guys even tried to run a full nomad’s guardian or elementalist yet?

You’d be surprised.

Ingros.7801:

Also the fact that if you take Natural Abundance with Tranquil Balance and Shrouding Mists you get +60% outgoing heals and can heal a friend for over 4000 health every 2 sec for 10 energy with the tablet move skill as long as he picks up the tablet drop. That’s almost as much as a guardian’s shelter and that has a 30 sec cooldown.

Some after counting: with my calculation (counting with present healing power in full gear) that +60% is +>100%, with monk runes, sigil of benevolance. counting with an 1,25 mult. on healing power ratio (average between skills) an 1900 base healing with tablet counting 1300 healing power goes up to 7,6K heal /cast. maybe not the most precise calculation, but close to this maybe the truth.