Guild Wars 2

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

Jongi.7612:

Ricky.4706:

u know, if they called hot an upgrade, it would not be a problem …that’s how upgrades work ….if i have software v1.0 and there’s a paid upgrade to v2.0 – i wouldn’t have a 1.0 and a 2.0 …I’d just have a version 2.0 – veteran user …OR new user.

But since it’s being marketed as 2 products, Guildwars base, and guildwars Hot expansion….the perception is completely different.

as an expansion, it’s not a good deal, as an upgrade, it’s normal – simply by perception.

1 product, people are just making it out to be something it actually isnt which is the entire point.

yes, but that would be misleading if they are marketing it as 2 products.

you can’t buy just the base guildwars, this is not an expansion, it’s an upgrade.
the more i look at this, the more interesting it is as a case study from company to user.

The perception of implying there are 2 products when in reality there is only 1, makes people feel like they are getting less when they only get 1 of 2 products.

If anet wanted to fix this instantly, all they would have to do is call Hot a Guildwars 2 upgrade….but since I’m 99 percent sure that won’t happen, I am very curious to see their pr / marketing team wiggle their way out of this one. Lot’s to be learned in upcoming weeks!! ^.^

Still with this? lol

Btw… BINGO!

Jongi.7612:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

Where is this located in the FAQ,Buy page, Terms of purchase?

I’m still waiting on the link from the place where you actually buy HoT, or get information about what you are about to purchase.

I’m sorry to tell you.
It’s advertised and sold as a bundle.
And until the wording changes and refunds go out.
That is a fact. Under the law.
Not an opinion.

Your still on about that. People have given you your answer multiple times. Your fishing for a certain answer like a UFO hunter. Its only sold as HoT, ANet has already stated, because someone asked due to being curious and wanted to make sure, that what you just linked but for some reason cant find it.

The information just isnt in the place that you want it to be and everyone would agree that it should be on the buy page. Now drop it.

Lol so tell more about this false advertising LMFAO

I love how Jongi is telling people to drop it when he STILL hasn’t provided proof that everyone is being entitled and just want something for free. Sad.

quaniesan.8497:

look at that, Mr. Anet’s personal guard is all ganged up. No that I feel sorry. Here’s a little tip: next time, when people are trying to protect your interest (i.e. calling out Anet’s screwups), don’t bark back at the hands that shield you.

I dont see people ganging up on me, I see it as one person. What interest of mine are you protecting? I have yet to see any of this. Shielding me from what exactly.?There are a bunch of people that think something is going on when there isnt.

In case you havent noticed I called out their screw up, but since you didnt read my posts completely I understand that you would think I havent.

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

My time is worth a monetary amount actually. If I’m forced into repetitive tasks I don’t necessarily want to do in order to use part of the game already I paid for, the time used to collect gold for that specific purpose could be given a real world monetary amount.

Ephemiel.5694:

I love how Jongi is telling people to drop it when he STILL hasn’t provided proof that everyone is being entitled and just want something for free. Sad.

This whole thread isnt proof enough? What about all the other forums? What proof are you looking for exactly? The only thing that is really apparent is that you guys are salty because you see someone is getting core game files when they purchase HoT.

Jongi.7612:

quaniesan.8497:

look at that, Mr. Anet’s personal guard is all ganged up. No that I feel sorry. Here’s a little tip: next time, when people are trying to protect your interest (i.e. calling out Anet’s screwups), don’t bark back at the hands that shield you.

I dont see people ganging up on me, I see it as one person. What interest of mine are you protecting? I have yet to see any of this. Shielding me from what exactly.?There are a bunch of people that think something is going on when there isnt.

In case you havent noticed I called out their screw up, but since you didnt read my posts completely I understand that you would think I havent.

What did you expect was going to happen when you call people “entitled” over a heated topic?

Jongi.7612:

Ephemiel.5694:

I love how Jongi is telling people to drop it when he STILL hasn’t provided proof that everyone is being entitled and just want something for free. Sad.

This whole thread isnt proof enough? What about all the other forums? What proof are you looking for exactly? The only thing that is really apparent is that you guys are salty because you see someone is getting core game files when they purchase HoT.

actually, we aren’t salty. It’s just that you are too delusional to acknowledge that the value of those core game files and the right to play them is worth more than zero.

Jongi.7612:

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

Just, please XD There is no such thing as a free lunch. Opportunity costs etc… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Do you really have no notion of economy at all? :’(

What about the good old saying, “time is money” ?

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

My time is worth a monetary amount actually. If I’m forced into repetitive tasks I don’t necessarily want to do in order to use part of the game already I paid for, the time used to collect gold for that specific purpose could be given a real world monetary amount.

Just because the revenant is going to be released doesnt mean you have to play it. Its your choice to play it, and if time is money then you better pay up for that character spot. You didnt get all the space to play every class in the first place, why should this be any different? You paid for those classes right? So why not say we should actually have 9 character slots instead of 5, or in your case 6?

Because it seems like the most ignorant, self righteous and falsely entitled people seem to also always be the loudest regardless of the community or how in the minority they are.

I can sorta understand why some people might be a little upset (if you got the base game in preparation for HoT and then the change happened), but if you’re a vet? No.
-Buying gems doesn’t entitle you to anything as it’s an optional purchase
-If you honestly feel like you got nothing of value out of the 3 years this game has been running you might want to play another game. (I took like a year off in the middle but still came back to find the LS content awesome as hell, just the fact that the world did feel like it was changing, even if not super quickly, and no other game had really done that)

Jongi.7612:

Ephemiel.5694:

I love how Jongi is telling people to drop it when he STILL hasn’t provided proof that everyone is being entitled and just want something for free. Sad.

This whole thread isnt proof enough? What about all the other forums? What proof are you looking for exactly? The only thing that is really apparent is that you guys are salty because you see someone is getting core game files when they purchase HoT.

Have you posted anything? Any threads that truly prove it? Anything at all? NO. This thread isn’t proof? No, it’s not, nowhere near it.

How about the huge thread that we made and all the gaming sites showing Anet’s crap? Isn’t THAT proof? According to you, it’s not, so why should we feel this thread made by a blind drone like you proves anything?

Using your words, the only thing that is really apparent is that you guys are completely stupid drones that defend Anet through all of their kitten and mistakes, apparently you love getting ripped off.

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Ephemiel.5694:

I love how Jongi is telling people to drop it when he STILL hasn’t provided proof that everyone is being entitled and just want something for free. Sad.

This whole thread isnt proof enough? What about all the other forums? What proof are you looking for exactly? The only thing that is really apparent is that you guys are salty because you see someone is getting core game files when they purchase HoT.

actually, we aren’t salty. It’s just that you are too delusional to acknowledge that the value of those core game files and the right to play them is worth more than zero.

But that’s not for you to decide. It’s arenanets decision (or NCsoft I guess) how much they want to sell the content for.

Arenanet thinks the right to play those core game files is zero once HoT releases. Why do you have a problem with that?

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

My time is worth a monetary amount actually. If I’m forced into repetitive tasks I don’t necessarily want to do in order to use part of the game already I paid for, the time used to collect gold for that specific purpose could be given a real world monetary amount.

Just because the revenant is going to be released doesnt mean you have to play it. Its your choice to play it, and if time is money then you better pay up for that character spot. You didnt get all the space to play every class in the first place, why should this be any different? You paid for those classes right? So why not say we should actually have 9 character slots instead of 5, or in your case 6?

Just because guild wars 2 was released it doesn’t mean you have to buy it. Plenty of other games, some of them even totally f2p like Wildstar.
guess what, your marketing and sale policy is what makes you sink or float.
And this kind of marketing generates more loss than revenue since it spawns dissatisfaction: you are forced to put efforts to access something you purchased sacrificing resources (time OR money, both important) regardless of the fact you are paying for them.

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

My time is worth a monetary amount actually. If I’m forced into repetitive tasks I don’t necessarily want to do in order to use part of the game already I paid for, the time used to collect gold for that specific purpose could be given a real world monetary amount.

Just because the revenant is going to be released doesnt mean you have to play it. Its your choice to play it, and if time is money then you better pay up for that character spot. You didnt get all the space to play every class in the first place, why should this be any different? You paid for those classes right? So why not say we should actually have 9 character slots instead of 5, or in your case 6?

Which is exactly my point. $50 + revenant fees. I was given the opportunity to try out all the classes when I first bought the game. I am not given that opportunity if I buy the expansion without paying an additional fee or disconnecting the expansion from my account. I’m glad we agree on something.

Ephemiel.5694:

I love how Jongi is telling people to drop it when he STILL hasn’t provided proof that everyone is being entitled and just want something for free. Sad.

There is no ‘proof’, we can’t read peoples minds.

There’s pattern recognition though – along with a natural tendency to self-justify.

People like the OP (and I) see attitudes we remember little kids having, and not particularly pleasant little kids.

It’s totally naturally that people who are upset over the prepurchase are going to severely dislike and really not be willing to accept that observation. We’re just not wired that way.

Straylight.7529:

But that’s not for you to decide. It’s arenanets decision (or NCsoft I guess) how much they want to sell the content for.

Arenanet thinks the right to play those core game files is zero once HoT releases. Why do you have a problem with that?

ANet decides the price, but WE decide the value. GW2 core has value, quite a lot too. Even more if it’s an old account compared to a brand new.

stof.9341:

Jongi.7612:

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

Just, please XD There is no such thing as a free lunch. Opportunity costs etc… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Do you really have no notion of economy at all? :’(

What about the good old saying, “time is money” ?

If i want to pick up some dirt and give it to someone, no one paid for it. Its a gift, from the ground. Lets say I paid someone to create a game, its going to be free to play with a shop like league of legends. I pay the guy out of my own pocket and give everyone I can the game for free. That is called marketing and getting your name out because the store can make up the difference. When you increase your customer base you increase your income, or you fall. This is just marketing, they are saying “Come play our game, if your new dont worry, just purchase the expansion and enjoy the world with your fellow players” is a good choice.

Yes I paid for the making of the game, blah blah blah, but its no different than them wanting more people to play.

Windsagio.1340:

Ephemiel.5694:

I love how Jongi is telling people to drop it when he STILL hasn’t provided proof that everyone is being entitled and just want something for free. Sad.

There is no ‘proof’, we can’t read peoples minds.

There’s pattern recognition though – along with a natural tendency to self-justify.

People like the OP (and I) see attitudes we remember little kids having, and not particularly pleasant little kids.

It’s totally naturally that people who are upset over the prepurchase are going to severely dislike and really not be willing to accept that observation. We’re just not wired that way.

It’s totally natural that people who aren’t upset over the pre-purchase are doing to do everything in their power to ignore our own observations and that people like you and the OP refuse to even understand our and even multiple site’s observations. You drones are just not wired that way.

It’s obvious you’re all blinded by your own white knighting, so i’m done. It’s clear you drones will never understand anything, you just love to take it up the kitten by Anet.

stof.9341:

Straylight.7529:

But that’s not for you to decide. It’s arenanets decision (or NCsoft I guess) how much they want to sell the content for.

Arenanet thinks the right to play those core game files is zero once HoT releases. Why do you have a problem with that?

ANet decides the price, but WE decide the value. GW2 core has value, quite a lot too. Even more if it’s an old account compared to a brand new.

So? What is it you’re trying to say? You can give Arenanet more money if you think GW2 or HoT is worth more than 50$. Just buy gems.

stof.9341:

Straylight.7529:

But that’s not for you to decide. It’s arenanets decision (or NCsoft I guess) how much they want to sell the content for.

Arenanet thinks the right to play those core game files is zero once HoT releases. Why do you have a problem with that?

ANet decides the price, but WE decide the value. GW2 core has value, quite a lot too. Even more if it’s an old account compared to a brand new.

And you dont have to buy it, no one is forcing you to buy it, no gun is held at your head or anything. If you dont think its worth it dont buy it.

Jongi.7612:

Why exactly do some of the veteran players think ANet owes you anything? I see a lot of vet players understand that nothing is owed to them, but the vocal majority of vets here on the forums think something is owed to them.

The expansion is $50 bucks, end of story. If you dont already have GW2 and you buy HoT you get it for free. Its so that it brings in more players.

Veteran players have already gotten their fair share of free stuff, living story which if these new players want to experience they have to pay for, free level 20 boosts for being active during the anniversaries, free skins, free level 80’s if you didnt waste your tomes, and who knows what else was given out.

So what exactly are you guys complaining about? Its just like these spoiled kids that didnt get the car they wanted, or the 64gb iphone and rage at their parents. Its stupid and I hope ANet sticks to their guns.

The ONLY people that should be kittened off are the people who bought the core game recently and now have to dish out another 50 for the expansion in turn making the expansion more expensive. Give them a free skin, gems or something. Everyone else has gotten their monies worth from the game.

If you think you are owed something because you have been playing for 3 years and new players get the core game for free to increase the size of the community that is the exact definition of entitlement.

If you are still asking what people are complaining about you haven’t been paying attention.

And please stay away from calling people that have supported this game for years entitled. It’s wrong and polarising. We paid for previous content, often far beyond that.

Calling people out for feeling that they’re not getting value for money is not on.

Jongi.7612:

stof.9341:

Jongi.7612:

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

Just, please XD There is no such thing as a free lunch. Opportunity costs etc… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Do you really have no notion of economy at all? :’(

What about the good old saying, “time is money” ?

If i want to pick up some dirt and give it to someone, no one paid for it. Its a gift, from the ground. Lets say I paid someone to create a game, its going to be free to play with a shop like league of legends. I pay the guy out of my own pocket and give everyone I can the game for free. That is called marketing and getting your name out because the store can make up the difference. When you increase your customer base you increase your income, or you fall. This is just marketing, they are saying “Come play our game, if your new dont worry, just purchase the expansion and enjoy the world with your fellow players” is a good choice.

Yes I paid for the making of the game, blah blah blah, but its no different than them wanting more people to play.

So GW2 is dirt on the ground?

This is how I feel on the matter:

The HoT expansion is priced at $50. This is JUST the expansion. Not the expansion + the core game. HoT is an expansion of the core game, not “the new version of the core game”. ANET themselves clearly make this distinction. So for me personally, just looking at what I have been shown so far, I do not yet feel that HoT has $50 worth of new content when compared to what I received when I payed $50 for the core game. But this is besides the point. HoT costs $50 on it’s own BUT the core game comes with it for free. Because you are getting two things for the price of one, this is a package deal. And it is an extremely good deal for anyone looking to get into GW2. This honestly makes a lot of business sense as it will make it much easier for new players to get into the game.

Now, here’s the thing though. It is a fact that the HoT expansion is a package deal because it comes bundled with the core game for free. The core game, in it’s original form, before any living story updates or any of the additions that ANET has made to it since it was initially released still holds a lot of value and is totally worth $50 imo. That is a lot of content: The original PVE tyria maps, all the dungeons, WvW, PvP, all the current classes, etc. Now whether or not a player has been enjoying this content for the past 3 years or starts when HoT is released is irrelevant because either way the same “base” (meaning, what shipped when the game initially came out) content will be accessible. The main difference is that I payed $50 for all that content. Which means that the total costs for me is then $100 while any new player only has to pay $50. This is why, from a value perspective, it is a very good package deal for any new player. But for me, as someone who already has the core game, i’m not getting that same value from the package for the SAME price. Now if ANET were offering an “upgrade” option for 10-15$ less or at least including a character slot with the standard version for existing players I wouldn’t have any issue. It’s not that I feel that I’m entitled to anything, I just don’t think that the current packages/pricing is fair to existing players.

Arguing with Jongi is pointless, because he ignores points he can’t refute. Please, have the decency to concede when you’re obviously wrong and you know it.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Jongi.7612:

Why exactly do some of the veteran players think ANet owes you anything? I see a lot of vet players understand that nothing is owed to them, but the vocal majority of vets here on the forums think something is owed to them.

The expansion is $50 bucks, end of story. If you dont already have GW2 and you buy HoT you get it for free. Its so that it brings in more players.

Veteran players have already gotten their fair share of free stuff, living story which if these new players want to experience they have to pay for, free level 20 boosts for being active during the anniversaries, free skins, free level 80’s if you didnt waste your tomes, and who knows what else was given out.

So what exactly are you guys complaining about? Its just like these spoiled kids that didnt get the car they wanted, or the 64gb iphone and rage at their parents. Its stupid and I hope ANet sticks to their guns.

The ONLY people that should be kittened off are the people who bought the core game recently and now have to dish out another 50 for the expansion in turn making the expansion more expensive. Give them a free skin, gems or something. Everyone else has gotten their monies worth from the game.

If you think you are owed something because you have been playing for 3 years and new players get the core game for free to increase the size of the community that is the exact definition of entitlement.

If you are still asking what people are complaining about you haven’t been paying attention.

And please stay away from calling people that have supported this game for years entitled. It’s wrong and polarising. We paid for previous content, often far beyond that.

Calling people out for feeling that they’re not getting value for money is not on.

I know WE have, im a veteran playing since you havent read my post even though you linked it. The issue post isnt about not getting your value out of HoT, its thinking your owed something just because you have been playing for 3 years which a lot of people here on the forums think. I have been playing for 3 years I should get x number of gems or y number of character slots.

At the end of the say HoT is and unless ANet changes it, will be $50. If people dont think that the content in HoT isnt going to be worth it thats valid, dont buy it. But if a character slot or something is the only reason why you arent buying it, then the content isnt the reason, you want something for nothing.

Straylight.7529:

So? What is it you’re trying to say? You can give Arenanet more money if you think GW2 or HoT is worth more than 50$. Just buy gems.

An item value has usually little correlation with it’s price. ANet can only decide the item price. When ANet says the core game is given for free, anyone should know it’s bs and it’s actually paid for somewhere.

Now the issue is that the core now is exclusively sold as a promotional gift when you buy HoT. Now, people (should) start asking : “if core is given for free, who paid for it?”

And since veterans do NOT receive a core GW2 from that purchase, in fact, they get nothing at all other than HoT, they easily come to the conclusion that they are the ones paying for it. And thus they get angry.

You can put all the arguments of the world you want, this is basic human behavior and this is something some guys at ANet should have predicted if they didn’t sleep through their marketing classes.

As for “giving” ANet money, you know what? I was completely going to do that. When I saw HoT was $50 my first reaction was that the expansion pack itself was overpriced but I didn’t care too much because, meh why not? I got good enjoyment of GW2 and might even get good enjoyment of HoT. In a sense, since I valued HoT at less than $50 but was ready to buy it anyway, I was going to make some free donation to ANet.

But then, the unfairness of the new player deal and the lack of a required char slot just turned me off the purchase entirely.

PandaBear.7510:

This is how I feel on the matter:

The HoT expansion is priced at $50. This is JUST the expansion. Not the expansion + the core game. HoT is an expansion of the core game, not “the new version of the core game”. ANET themselves clearly make this distinction. So for me personally, just looking at what I have been shown so far, I do not yet feel that HoT has $50 worth of new content when compared to what I received when I payed $50 for the core game. But this is besides the point. HoT costs $50 on it’s own BUT the core game comes with it for free for new players. Because you are getting two things for the price of one, this is a package deal. And it is an extremely good deal for anyone looking to get into GW2. This honestly makes a lot of business sense as it will make it much easier for new players to get into the game.

Now, here’s the thing though. It is a fact that the HoT expansion is a package deal because it comes bundled with the core game for free. The core game, in it’s original form, before any living story updates or any of the additions that ANET has made to it since it was initially released still holds a lot of value and is totally worth $50 imo. That is a lot of content: The original PVE tyria maps, all the dungeons, WvW, PvP, all the current classes, etc. Now whether or not a player has been enjoying this content for the past 3 years or starts when HoT is released is irrelevant because either way the same “base” (meaning, what shipped when the game initially came out) content will be accessible. The main difference is that I payed $50 for all that content. Which means that the total costs for me is then $100 while any new player only has to pay $50. This is why, from a value perspective, it is a very good package deal for any new player. But for me, as someone who already has the core game, i’m not getting that same value from the package for the SAME price. Now if ANET were offering an “upgrade” option for 10-15$ less or at least including a character slot with the standard version for existing players I wouldn’t have any issue. It’s not that I feel that I’m entitled to anything, I just don’t think that the current packages/pricing is fair to existing players.

I fixed it for you.

stof.9341:

Straylight.7529:

So? What is it you’re trying to say? You can give Arenanet more money if you think GW2 or HoT is worth more than 50$. Just buy gems.

An item value has usually little correlation with it’s price. ANet can only decide the item price. When ANet says the core game is given for free, anyone should know it’s bs and it’s actually paid for somewhere.

Now the issue is that the core now is exclusively sold as a promotional gift when you buy HoT. Now, people (should) start asking : “if core is given for free, who paid for it?”

And since veterans do NOT receive a core GW2 from that purchase, in fact, they get nothing at all other than HoT, they easily come to the conclusion that they are the ones paying for it. And thus they get angry.

You can put all the arguments of the world you want, this is basic human behavior and this is something some guys at ANet should have predicted if they didn’t sleep through their marketing classes.

As for “giving” ANet money, you know what? I was completely going to do that. When I saw HoT was $50 my first reaction was that the expansion pack itself was overpriced but I didn’t care too much because, meh why not? I got good enjoyment of GW2 and might even get good enjoyment of HoT. In a sense, since I valued HoT at less than $50 but was ready to buy it anyway, I was going to make some free donation to ANet.

But then, the unfairness of the new player deal and the lack of a required char slot just turned me off the purchase entirely.

The only person asking “who paid for it” is you. Its just game code and the time investment of creating that code could of been paid for several times over already so they decided to give it as a gift with another purchase. If my money from playing the past 3 years (on and off) goes to increasing the number of people playing, which can lead to more armor skin sales and more content, im fine with that. If your not then dont support them anymore. Is that a good enough answer to your “nothing is free” argument?

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

My time is worth a monetary amount actually. If I’m forced into repetitive tasks I don’t necessarily want to do in order to use part of the game already I paid for, the time used to collect gold for that specific purpose could be given a real world monetary amount.

Just because the revenant is going to be released doesnt mean you have to play it. Its your choice to play it, and if time is money then you better pay up for that character spot. You didnt get all the space to play every class in the first place, why should this be any different? You paid for those classes right? So why not say we should actually have 9 character slots instead of 5, or in your case 6?

I just wanted to include that I actually have 13 character slots, and all of them are full. I did buy them with real money because I believe in supporting people and companies I perceive as valuing me as a customer. I still buy actual CD’s from bands I like to support the artist. This, to me, is locking a feature behind a secondary paywall which I don’t appreciate. It’s as simple as that. I’m obviously not going to convince you to see it from my point of view and vise versa because this is an argument over the feeling of perception of how a company has treated a long time customer. It feels like I’m being charged extra for something given to someone else for free.

What entitlement?, in a capitalist society customers keep businesses open, not the other way around.

stof.9341:

An item value has usually little correlation with it’s price. ANet can only decide the item price. When ANet says the core game is given for free, anyone should know it’s bs and it’s actually paid for somewhere.

But it is for free. How can you not see that? If it’s paid from “somewhere” then tell us where that somewhere is.

stof.9341:

Now the issue is that the core now is exclusively sold as a promotional gift when you buy HoT. Now, people (should) start asking : “if core is given for free, who paid for it?”

No one. It’s given for free. FREE

stof.9341:

And since veterans do NOT receive a core GW2 from that purchase, in fact, they get nothing at all other than HoT, they easily come to the conclusion that they are the ones paying for it. And thus they get angry.

No it isn’t. I’m a veteran and I pay 50$ for HoT and that’s what I get. The new players also pay 50$. Everyone pays the same. My money is not being funneled to the new players.

No one pays for the free core game. If you are a veteran you already paid for it years ago. If you are a new player you only have to pay for HoT and get the core game for free. It’s that simple, really.

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

My time is worth a monetary amount actually. If I’m forced into repetitive tasks I don’t necessarily want to do in order to use part of the game already I paid for, the time used to collect gold for that specific purpose could be given a real world monetary amount.

Just because the revenant is going to be released doesnt mean you have to play it. Its your choice to play it, and if time is money then you better pay up for that character spot. You didnt get all the space to play every class in the first place, why should this be any different? You paid for those classes right? So why not say we should actually have 9 character slots instead of 5, or in your case 6?

I just wanted to include that I actually have 13 character slots, and all of them are full. I did buy them with real money because I believe in supporting people and companies I perceive as valuing me as a customer. I still buy actual CD’s from bands I like to support the artist. This, to me, is locking a feature behind a secondary paywall which I don’t appreciate. It’s as simple as that. I’m obviously not going to convince you to see it from my point of view and vise versa because this is an argument over the feeling of perception of how a company has treated a long time customer. It feels like I’m being charged extra for something given to someone else for free.

Its not locked though, the revenant is just being released as a playable profession. If you dont have room for it make room. I can understand that having multiple necromancers can be appealing due to cultural armor, animations and what not. What I would suggest, if you havent already, is to play the revenant in the beta to see if you would actually want it. If you want 1 of each class no matter what, well then you have 3 options that I can see, delete a duplicate, buy another slot with either gold or real money, or just sit there and wait and see if ANet gives out another slot. There really isnt much else anyone can suggest.

Make a suggestion, which I wasnt expecting a new character slot anyways since they are sold on the gem store. I can understand why people might of thought they would, but I wasnt expecting it in the least.

so there are not 2 products, Hot is just Guildwars 2 vs 2.0

otherwise, there is no such thing as a guild wars core edition, else it would be a seperate product like guildwars 1 – http://store.guildwars.com/store/gw/cat/categoryID.67871700

there is just one product now …..Heart of thorns, Guildwars 2 version 1.0 no longer exists …other than accounts that have not been upgraded yet.

Straylight.7529:

stof.9341:

An item value has usually little correlation with it’s price. ANet can only decide the item price. When ANet says the core game is given for free, anyone should know it’s bs and it’s actually paid for somewhere.

But it is for free. How can you not see that? If it’s paid from “somewhere” then tell us where that somewhere is.

stof.9341:

Now the issue is that the core now is exclusively sold as a promotional gift when you buy HoT. Now, people (should) start asking : “if core is given for free, who paid for it?”

No one. It’s given for free. FREE

stof.9341:

And since veterans do NOT receive a core GW2 from that purchase, in fact, they get nothing at all other than HoT, they easily come to the conclusion that they are the ones paying for it. And thus they get angry.

No it isn’t. I’m a veteran and I pay 50$ for HoT and that’s what I get. The new players also pay 50$. Everyone pays the same. My money is not being funneled to the new players.

No one pays for the free core game. If you are a veteran you already paid for it years ago. If you are a new player you only have to pay for HoT and get the core game for free. It’s that simple, really.

Hes saying that the veterans paid it so that since they paid it they should get something in return. Which I totally disagree with. We paid for what we paid for, the profits on those items went for this gift. It might not be free in the sense that everything has some form of cost, even picking up dirt requires a cost of energy, but once the money is in ANets hands they can use that profit as they see it.

Jongi.7612:

PandaBear.7510:

This is how I feel on the matter:

The HoT expansion is priced at $50. This is JUST the expansion. Not the expansion + the core game. HoT is an expansion of the core game, not “the new version of the core game”. ANET themselves clearly make this distinction. So for me personally, just looking at what I have been shown so far, I do not yet feel that HoT has $50 worth of new content when compared to what I received when I payed $50 for the core game. But this is besides the point. HoT costs $50 on it’s own BUT the core game comes with it for free for new players. Because you are getting two things for the price of one, this is a package deal. And it is an extremely good deal for anyone looking to get into GW2. This honestly makes a lot of business sense as it will make it much easier for new players to get into the game.

Now, here’s the thing though. It is a fact that the HoT expansion is a package deal because it comes bundled with the core game for free. The core game, in it’s original form, before any living story updates or any of the additions that ANET has made to it since it was initially released still holds a lot of value and is totally worth $50 imo. That is a lot of content: The original PVE tyria maps, all the dungeons, WvW, PvP, all the current classes, etc. Now whether or not a player has been enjoying this content for the past 3 years or starts when HoT is released is irrelevant because either way the same “base” (meaning, what shipped when the game initially came out) content will be accessible. The main difference is that I payed $50 for all that content. Which means that the total costs for me is then $100 while any new player only has to pay $50. This is why, from a value perspective, it is a very good package deal for any new player. But for me, as someone who already has the core game, i’m not getting that same value from the package for the SAME price. Now if ANET were offering an “upgrade” option for 10-15$ less or at least including a character slot with the standard version for existing players I wouldn’t have any issue. It’s not that I feel that I’m entitled to anything, I just don’t think that the current packages/pricing is fair to existing players.

I fixed it for you.

Thanks for that edit. Though in my second paragraph I talked about how the core game comes with HoT for new players. My point that the $50 package deal (HoT + core game) for new players is of much more value than what existing players will pay for HoT for the same exact price still stands.

Lets solve this once and for all.

I as a customer do not feel the current deal is fair and want to change it, which is what some of the player-base is currently trying to do.

OP’s opinion on this is irrelevant to this, A-nets opinion is irrelevant to this , all that matters is that I feel it is as such and as a customer / potential customer it is perfectly within my prerogative to attempt to negotiate a better deal.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Lets solve this once and for all.

I as a customer do not feel the current deal is fair and want to change it, which is what some of the player-base is currently trying to do.

OP’s opinion on this is irrelevant to this, A-nets opinion is irrelevant to this , all that matters is that I feel it is as such and as a customer / potential customer it is perfectly within my prerogative to attempt to negotiate a better deal.

Feels are not important. Facts are.
And facts are: the value of HoT is function of who purchases it. This is not fair. This creates a gap in the return for old or incoming customers.

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

My time is worth a monetary amount actually. If I’m forced into repetitive tasks I don’t necessarily want to do in order to use part of the game already I paid for, the time used to collect gold for that specific purpose could be given a real world monetary amount.

Just because the revenant is going to be released doesnt mean you have to play it. Its your choice to play it, and if time is money then you better pay up for that character spot. You didnt get all the space to play every class in the first place, why should this be any different? You paid for those classes right? So why not say we should actually have 9 character slots instead of 5, or in your case 6?

I just wanted to include that I actually have 13 character slots, and all of them are full. I did buy them with real money because I believe in supporting people and companies I perceive as valuing me as a customer. I still buy actual CD’s from bands I like to support the artist. This, to me, is locking a feature behind a secondary paywall which I don’t appreciate. It’s as simple as that. I’m obviously not going to convince you to see it from my point of view and vise versa because this is an argument over the feeling of perception of how a company has treated a long time customer. It feels like I’m being charged extra for something given to someone else for free.

Its not locked though, the revenant is just being released as a playable profession. If you dont have room for it make room. I can understand that having multiple necromancers can be appealing due to cultural armor, animations and what not. What I would suggest, if you havent already, is to play the revenant in the beta to see if you would actually want it. If you want 1 of each class no matter what, well then you have 3 options that I can see, delete a duplicate, buy another slot with either gold or real money, or just sit there and wait and see if ANet gives out another slot. There really isnt much else anyone can suggest.

Make a suggestion, which I wasnt expecting a new character slot anyways since they are sold on the gem store. I can understand why people might of thought they would, but I wasnt expecting it in the least.

But that’s the difference in how other veterans have perceived the hype. The revenant does have us excited and was advertised as a feature of the expansion, and now is sold as either locked behind a paywall, timewall, or goldwall. This is getting into the crux of the matter though as to why you’re not angry and a lot of people are. You weren’t expecting the revenant slot to be included. A lot of us were expecting to be able to jump right into it and be able to create the class if we bought the expansion, but that is not the case right now. We could though if we bought another account. This whole thread about entitlement is the dismissal of people’s disappointment about key selling features not being included within the base package. It’s not a feeling of entitlement, its’s a feeling of being disregarded you have enjoyed and supported the game.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Lets solve this once and for all.

I as a customer do not feel the current deal is fair and want to change it, which is what some of the player-base is currently trying to do.

OP’s opinion on this is irrelevant to this, A-nets opinion is irrelevant to this , all that matters is that I feel it is as such and as a customer / potential customer it is perfectly within my prerogative to attempt to negotiate a better deal.

No one said it isnt, and ANet doesnt have to agree to those terms. If you dont agree on the pricing thats totally fine, your opinion.

Jongi.7612:

Conski Deshan.2057:

Lets solve this once and for all.

I as a customer do not feel the current deal is fair and want to change it, which is what some of the player-base is currently trying to do.

OP’s opinion on this is irrelevant to this, A-nets opinion is irrelevant to this , all that matters is that I feel it is as such and as a customer / potential customer it is perfectly within my prerogative to attempt to negotiate a better deal.

No one said it isnt, and ANet doesnt have to agree to those terms. If you dont agree on the pricing thats totally fine, your opinion.

I know they don’t
Then why are you complaining about people expressing their opinion and reasoning if you are aware of this?

Jongi.7612:

If you dont agree on the pricing thats totally fine, your opinion.

this seems to contradict the title of the thread, which implies the veteran “entitlement mentality” is not fine. What mentality would you consider yourself ? surely if you can judge a veteran mentality, you can judge your own ? Conformist maybe ?

GW1, so yah I’m a vet from the beginning. I won’t buy this. I paid for GW2 60.00, then I have to pay 50.00 to get the expansion, so that is 110.00. I am not (over used word inserted here of “entitled”) I see new people getting the whole thing for 50.00. 110.00….50.00…110.00…50.00…nope not buying it. New people can come in here and have this game now. I don’t care anymore about the expansion. I did at one time, but that time is past. Been with you since 2005. Nothing lasts forever. Its not worth it to me. Period. Not worth 110.00. No other reason than that. Done. Enjoy your new game. I’m out.

When something is added for “free” to another product, it isn’t actually free. You need to pay for that other product. Making that purchase is the price.

Simple fact, right.

When they’re selling HoT as an expansion to the original game, it is implied that people who bought an instance of the original game, can “expand” that original game with it.

Make sense right? Any arguments so far?

Now, a “veteran player”, be it a 3 year veteran or a 6 month veteran, buying the expansion for its intended purpose, (which we established was the expansion of the options that came with the game he previously purchased) cannot have this free addition of the base game.

Still with me?

Buying the expansion as an actual expansion, which is obviously what people who buy expansions expect of expansions, and which is obviously what expansions are intended to be, is an undeniably bad deal, because you’re not getting something implied in the offer.

The only way to get the full benefit of this expansion deal as a veteran player, is to not consider it an expansion. This strikes me as very counter-intuitive and undesirable. And obviously, considering what’s going on in the community right now, a great many people rightly can’t get their heads around this illogical scheme. Making the purchase, which is the “price” you pay to get the basic game for free, but not getting it, because you’re buying the expansion as an expansion.

This was always going to happen, completely predictable. It’s a horrible marketing mistake.

Jongi.7612:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Jongi.7612:

Why exactly do some of the veteran players think ANet owes you anything? I see a lot of vet players understand that nothing is owed to them, but the vocal majority of vets here on the forums think something is owed to them.

The expansion is $50 bucks, end of story. If you dont already have GW2 and you buy HoT you get it for free. Its so that it brings in more players.

Veteran players have already gotten their fair share of free stuff, living story which if these new players want to experience they have to pay for, free level 20 boosts for being active during the anniversaries, free skins, free level 80’s if you didnt waste your tomes, and who knows what else was given out.

So what exactly are you guys complaining about? Its just like these spoiled kids that didnt get the car they wanted, or the 64gb iphone and rage at their parents. Its stupid and I hope ANet sticks to their guns.

The ONLY people that should be kittened off are the people who bought the core game recently and now have to dish out another 50 for the expansion in turn making the expansion more expensive. Give them a free skin, gems or something. Everyone else has gotten their monies worth from the game.

If you think you are owed something because you have been playing for 3 years and new players get the core game for free to increase the size of the community that is the exact definition of entitlement.

If you are still asking what people are complaining about you haven’t been paying attention.

And please stay away from calling people that have supported this game for years entitled. It’s wrong and polarising. We paid for previous content, often far beyond that.

Calling people out for feeling that they’re not getting value for money is not on.

I know WE have, im a veteran playing since you havent read my post even though you linked it. The issue post isnt about not getting your value out of HoT, its thinking your owed something just because you have been playing for 3 years which a lot of people here on the forums think. I have been playing for 3 years I should get x number of gems or y number of character slots.

At the end of the say HoT is and unless ANet changes it, will be $50. If people dont think that the content in HoT isnt going to be worth it thats valid, dont buy it. But if a character slot or something is the only reason why you arent buying it, then the content isnt the reason, you want something for nothing.

Maybe you could take a less binary approach, and realise that you’re slapping an ‘entitled’ tag on a lot of people that want more value. Those asking for say, a character slot don’t say so because they want something for free, but because they feel it eould give the base package value for money. Judging by your previous posts the distinction will fly over your head though, and you’ll continue to belittle people that disagree with you.

Problem is it’s not just “People want more value”, of course people do.

It’s: (general examples)

“It’s not fair that we’re not getting what new people want”
or

“Arenanet is cheating us by not giving an extra character slot”

People can ask for more stuff, this is about justification and especially about tone.

~~~

I guess that’s not entirely shocking though, if someone framed it as “I wish Anet would give me a free character slot”, the response is likely to something along of the lines of “Yeah, and I wish somebody’s give me a Maserati”.

That’s also directly to the point though. This is about what people want but they’re not getting. Everything else is window-dressing

Reminder: Factions and NF came with TWO slots and it just so happens those games also added two classes.

But now? 2015 ANet? They make one class and give 0 slots. This just perfectly frames ANet in my eyes as having lost any heart and integrity they once had.

Sena.2761:

Reminder: Factions and NF came with TWO slots and it just so happens those games also added two classes.

But now? 2015 ANet? They make one class and give 0 slots. This just perfectly frames ANet in my eyes as having lost any heart and integrity they once had.

Do we get tired of going in circles with this? They were stand alone games that were compatible with Prophecies. If they had come with no character slots they’d be unplayable.

I do wonder at the time if the question was, “Prophecies came with 4 slots, but factions only comes with 2!”