Guild Wars 2

Didn’t Anet say that HoT requires the core game?

Well now it comes with the core game…

lol, there IS no core game, show me where I can purchase a Core game..

HOT is the core game, there is no value of 2 products being purchased as one.

This is an upgrade, not an expansion. Else there would be an independent product that can be purchased with which we can expand upon.

No such product exists. Let’s try to fix this mess by shattering this obfuscating marketing illusion. Guildwars 2 version 1 has been replaced by Heart of Thorns. Heart of Thorns is the New and improved core version, it is guildwars 2 version 2.0 or guildwars 3 if that makes it more appealing. call it the life and times of wesley quaggan for all i care …but don’t call it a 2 product value because there are not 2 products versions available to be purchased on the guildwars 2 site Just heart of thorns.

2 people walk into a bar.
Customer A bought a beer earlier, he’s bringing his friend customer B to try it out.
They only offer 1 package, it’s worth 50$, for a beer and a whisky.
Both customers pay their 50$, Customer A only gets the whisky because he bought the beer b4 and Customer B gets a beer and a whisky.
Customer A complains.
Tell me now, is Customer A entitled?
No, and that bar would be closed soon.

call it the pet rock festival if it makes you happy, but there are not 2 products …..Hot is the core game now. advertising 2 products for 1 is a fib.

Windsagio.1340:

Sena.2761:

Reminder: Factions and NF came with TWO slots and it just so happens those games also added two classes.

But now? 2015 ANet? They make one class and give 0 slots. This just perfectly frames ANet in my eyes as having lost any heart and integrity they once had.

Do we get tired of going in circles with this? They were stand alone games that were compatible with Prophecies. If they had come with no character slots they’d be unplayable.

I do wonder at the time if the question was, “Prophecies came with 4 slots, but factions only comes with 2!”

Every account has 2 complimentary character slots. Each of the three campaigns adds 2 slots to the account.

failing to do simple research when you haven’t played the previous game makes it trolly.

Ironically those expansions were stand alone expansions at a value of a stand alone game, here we have a few maps plus rebuying the core at a standalone price.

echo.2053:

Windsagio.1340:

Sena.2761:

Reminder: Factions and NF came with TWO slots and it just so happens those games also added two classes.

But now? 2015 ANet? They make one class and give 0 slots. This just perfectly frames ANet in my eyes as having lost any heart and integrity they once had.

Do we get tired of going in circles with this? They were stand alone games that were compatible with Prophecies. If they had come with no character slots they’d be unplayable.

I do wonder at the time if the question was, “Prophecies came with 4 slots, but factions only comes with 2!”

Every account has 2 complimentary character slots. Each of the three campaigns adds 2 slots to the account.

failing to do simple research when you haven’t played the previous game makes it trolly.

Ironically those expansions were stand alone expansions at a value of a stand alone game, here we have a few maps plus rebuying the core at a standalone price.

Interestingly, the Nightfall pre-order package also added a character slot. A much better deal than the HoT pre-purchase.

Straylight.7529:

There is no core game anymore. HoT is the new core game. The new most-updated version of the game everyone is going to play in the near future.

If you were right, it would mean that the function – and price of the core has been subsumed into the function – and, again, the price – of HoT. And that everyone that buys the package pays for those parts that were subsumed from core to HoT. Even those people that had the core already and have paid for all those things once before.

And you are surprised that people do not like that?

show me where on the gw2 page I can buy an unexpanded version ?
No reasoning or guesswork required. It doesn’t exist anymore.
Hot is not a separate product, it is the new core game.

And yet i still have that unexpanded version you claim that doesn’t exist. Besides, see my reasoning above if what you said is true – no matter how you call it, veterans end up paying for parts of the game they already have.

Ricky.4706:

show me where on the gw2 page I can buy an unexpanded version ?
No reasoning or guesswork required. It doesn’t exist anymore.
Hot is not a separate product, it is the new core game.

Hot is not the core game. It cant be.
Its the core game plus expansion even though that’s all that is available to buy now. The core game is still Guild Wars 2 only because people who still have that can still play it without HoT. HoT is not necessary its just that you cant buy it separately now so that means GW2 without HoT is still core. If suddenly GW2 players without it get stopped from playing their game or have HoT integrated free or otherwise then the core game will be HoT. This is fact!

yes, exactly …..the new players think they are getting 2 products, but they are not.

Vets simply have an un-upgraded version. The OLD gw2, Hot is the NEW gw2.

If it were truly an expansion, then there would be an un-expanded version for sale on the gw2 site. Now as an upgrade, it is customary to remove older versions. Pure smoke and mirrors.

The value in HoT is much better for a new player as opposed to someone who has the game already. You know, the people who have supported Anet with their hard earned cash over 3 years. THAT is the problem. Stop being so thick skulled, it’s not that hard to understand the problem here.

echo.2053:

Windsagio.1340:

Sena.2761:

Reminder: Factions and NF came with TWO slots and it just so happens those games also added two classes.

But now? 2015 ANet? They make one class and give 0 slots. This just perfectly frames ANet in my eyes as having lost any heart and integrity they once had.

Do we get tired of going in circles with this? They were stand alone games that were compatible with Prophecies. If they had come with no character slots they’d be unplayable.

I do wonder at the time if the question was, “Prophecies came with 4 slots, but factions only comes with 2!”

Every account has 2 complimentary character slots. Each of the three campaigns adds 2 slots to the account.

failing to do simple research when you haven’t played the previous game makes it trolly.

Ironically those expansions were stand alone expansions at a value of a stand alone game, here we have a few maps plus rebuying the core at a standalone price.

You missed the point entirely in your desire for pedantry.

Nightfall and Factions had to come with character slots because they were standalone products. It’s an invalid comparison based on an essential lack of understanding of the GW1 business model.

Not to mention not understanding that the GW1 business model and the GW2 business model are massively different, so that’s at least 2 reasons it’s an invalid comparison.

The Inherent Flaw in the Entitlement Argument

There seem to be two big veins to this argument, one being that those players who have bought the game earlier got two to three years worth of updates and increased content for “free”. The other is that gem purchasers made by players have nothing to do with any entitlement to future discount, content, or features in an expansion.

The “free” content people speak of are the updates, balancing, living story, and so on.

I would have to say you’re highly naive if you think any of this was done as a “reward” or for the love of the players.
GW2 contains a gem store, a mechanism for converting cash into usable in-game currency. In order to sustain a steady income stream from the gem store this meant that the game had to remain fun, balanced, interesting, and replayable / have playable additions. Otherwise the game would quickly have lost very substantial amounts of its population to other games (which, it likely already has).
But, all of this is economically motivated, the content is not “free” it is developed and rolled out in a calculated attempt to maintain a steady income stream through the gem store. If ArenaNet was operating at a loss staff would have been cut and this content would not be developed. No game / company is immune to economics.

And yes ArenaNet did not force anyone to buy gems. No one was required to. But, it would be disengenuous to say the game was not designed to encourage gem purchases. For example, the game comes with eight professions and five character slots, for any player that wants to try / create one of each profession that is an additional $30 USD purchase during their time playing a game. New accounts come with a single bank slot, each expanded tab is an additional $7.50 USD. New character come with 5 bag slots, any expansion to this is an additional $5 USD. Unlimited harvestin / logging / mining tools cost $12.50 USD currently. Now, yes, if you farm or dungeon like mad you might make enough gold to satisfy all your gem needs, but my guess is most people do buy gems.

For example, my wife and I probably each spend $20-$30 USD on gems every three months or so. This meens that the revenue stream from us is equivalent to a $6.66 – $10 per month subscription fee.

Simply put you cannot discount the value of this revenue stream when discussing any additions to content so far. There may be players who have never spent any money on gems, which was their choice (and I’m not criticizing that) but any content additions and updates since the release of this game have all been bought, paid for, and subsidized by the player base’s use of the gem store and the revenue stream that it established.

Arguing otherwise is sticking your head in the sand.

to make your argument stand, you have to show me an un-expanded version of guildwars 2 on their site that i can purchase.

It doesn’t exist, just like your ‘entitlement’ argument.

Haha all of you been blinded by this drama that you forgot that Vets may be losing progression and forced to gain skills back again…..

olTThreelo.6710:

The value in HoT is much better for a new player as opposed to someone who has the game already. You know, the people who have supported Anet with their hard earned cash over 3 years. THAT is the problem. Stop being so thick skulled, it’s not that hard to understand the problem here.

whatabout games that goes from p2p online to f2p like
age of conan, elder scrolls, tera ? those veteran players had to pay every month
Sub fee in teso was 15$ so by the time it vent free to play they already paid 75$
Its just crazy to think they will price it any lower in my opinion.

Ricky.4706:

to make your argument stand, you have to show me an un-expanded version of guildwars 2 on their site that i can purchase.

It doesn’t exist, just like your ‘entitlement’ argument.

To put it another way, if it’s not “fairness” (which is inherently an entitlement argument), what is the reason so many people are upset?

because there aren’t 2 products for sale on the gw 2 site. but it’s marketed as 2 products.

Windsagio.1340:

Ricky.4706:

to make your argument stand, you have to show me an un-expanded version of guildwars 2 on their site that i can purchase.

It doesn’t exist, just like your ‘entitlement’ argument.

To put it another way, if it’s not “fairness” (which is inherently an entitlement argument), what is the reason so many people are upset?

Well, yeah, if you put it that way, everyone is entitled to fairness :v

Windsagio.1340:

echo.2053:

Windsagio.1340:

Sena.2761:

Reminder: Factions and NF came with TWO slots and it just so happens those games also added two classes.

But now? 2015 ANet? They make one class and give 0 slots. This just perfectly frames ANet in my eyes as having lost any heart and integrity they once had.

Do we get tired of going in circles with this? They were stand alone games that were compatible with Prophecies. If they had come with no character slots they’d be unplayable.

I do wonder at the time if the question was, “Prophecies came with 4 slots, but factions only comes with 2!”

Every account has 2 complimentary character slots. Each of the three campaigns adds 2 slots to the account.

failing to do simple research when you haven’t played the previous game makes it trolly.

Ironically those expansions were stand alone expansions at a value of a stand alone game, here we have a few maps plus rebuying the core at a standalone price.

You missed the point entirely in your desire for pedantry.

Nightfall and Factions had to come with character slots because they were standalone products. It’s an invalid comparison based on an essential lack of understanding of the GW1 business model.

Not to mention not understanding that the GW1 business model and the GW2 business model are massively different, so that’s at least 2 reasons it’s an invalid comparison.

so why did you bring up a gw1 point, or was it to point out your one miscalculation?

Eotn expansion from GW1 was NOT a standalone expansion( meaning you could not play it unless you had a proph, fact, or nightfall account) for $35 on release

If you you already owned one of those campaigns you could buy the expansion without the need to buy another campaign (OMG)

Ok now list your white knight defense on why they couldn’t do a setup like this 8 years later annndd…. go

Windsagio.1340:

It doesn’t exist, just like your ‘entitlement’ argument.

Can someone enlight me on this super argument please.
I can’t read all the topic. thanks.

papry.8096:

Windsagio.1340:

It doesn’t exist, just like your ‘entitlement’ argument.

Can someone enlight me onthis super arument please.
I can’t read all the topic. thanks.

Few threads down

Knighthonor.4061:

Haha all of you been blinded by this drama that you forgot that Vets may be losing progression and forced to gain skills back again…..

I don’t care about that.
How a company consider me & my money is more important to me that a system change (that I do find good).

Knighthonor.4061:

papry.8096:

Windsagio.1340:

It doesn’t exist, just like your ‘entitlement’ argument.

Can someone enlight me onthis super arument please.
I can’t read all the topic. thanks.

Few threads down

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY ??? This was going to be so fun.

echo.2053:

Windsagio.1340:

echo.2053:

Windsagio.1340:

Sena.2761:

Reminder: Factions and NF came with TWO slots and it just so happens those games also added two classes.

But now? 2015 ANet? They make one class and give 0 slots. This just perfectly frames ANet in my eyes as having lost any heart and integrity they once had.

Do we get tired of going in circles with this? They were stand alone games that were compatible with Prophecies. If they had come with no character slots they’d be unplayable.

I do wonder at the time if the question was, “Prophecies came with 4 slots, but factions only comes with 2!”

Every account has 2 complimentary character slots. Each of the three campaigns adds 2 slots to the account.

failing to do simple research when you haven’t played the previous game makes it trolly.

Ironically those expansions were stand alone expansions at a value of a stand alone game, here we have a few maps plus rebuying the core at a standalone price.

You missed the point entirely in your desire for pedantry.

Nightfall and Factions had to come with character slots because they were standalone products. It’s an invalid comparison based on an essential lack of understanding of the GW1 business model.

Not to mention not understanding that the GW1 business model and the GW2 business model are massively different, so that’s at least 2 reasons it’s an invalid comparison.

so why did you bring up a gw1 point, or was it to point out your one miscalculation?

Eotn expansion from GW1 was NOT a standalone expansion( meaning you could not play it unless you had a proph, fact, or nightfall account) for $35 on release

If you you already owned one of those campaigns you could buy the expansion without the need to buy another campaign (OMG)

Ok now list your white knight defense on why they couldn’t do a setup like this 8 years later annndd…. go

Someone else brought up the GW point, I was if anything being irritable that he kept bringing it up without understanding the issue.

That being said, you’re right about EOTN, but I didn’t mention that one, did I :p I think the person complaining used factions as an example… a bad example.

I know reading up is a pain, but c’mon, try to track contesxt here :p

The entitlement that I saw the past couple days have been very cringe worthy to me.

The expansion is $50, you have to pay this in order to play it. If you are brand new to the game, you also receive the base game with it as a bonus. So if you want to spend less money on the expansion, wait for it to go on sale.

If you are complaining about not receiving a character slot with your purchase, realize that the core game came with 5 character slots. Meaning – from the get go – you weren’t able to create all the professions that were in the game. So do what everyone else has done from the release of the game, buy a character slot if you want to play another profession. The company doesn’t owe you a slot to play the revenant, just like the company didn’t owe you 8 character slots for you to play all professions.

I think most would not complain if the $50 package included a free character slot for those that already have the core game. If you remember back to the announcement of HoT, they had GW2 for sale and people bought the core game up….. They should have had HoT w/ a free character slot. Any other game I have played ( F2P or P2P) would have given this.

GW1 has stand-alone campaigns that came with the option of adding them to a single account so one could have the totality of the gaming world available for all characters on the account. Fusing the campaigns that way made them appear much like one game was an expansion to another game. This is what makes people confused about the whole thing, incorrectly calling Factions and Nightfall expansions.

If you owned one campaign, you’d get 4 character slots. If you bought another campaign and created a separate account for it, that account would also have 4 character slots. Joining a new campaign to an account already owning at least one other campaign, that existing account would gain 2 character slots. This added up to, like Echo said: 2 slots for the account plus 2 slots per added campaign.

Along came GW2, and somewhat later, HoT appeared, with GW2 added in for free. GW2 gave us 5 slots, and the new HoT bundle will (presumably) also give people the same 5 slots if they add that to a fresh account. Adding HoT to an existing GW2 account however, will add no slots.

With GW1, buying 2 campaigns will get you one of the following options:

• An account with campaign 1 (4 slots) and a separate account with campaign 2 (4 slots)
• A single account with both purchases combined (6 slots)

4 and 4, or 6.

With GW2, buying the basic game and the expansion that comes with a free basic game will get you one of the following options:

• An account with GW 2 basic (5 slots) and a separate account with the HoT expansion that comes with the free basic game (5 slots)
• A single account with both purchases combined: the basic game and the HoT expansion (5 slots)

5 and 5, or 5

GW1’s 4+4=6 for single account players is obviously more attractive than GW2’s 5+5=5 for single account players. GW2 completely eliminates an entire game’s worth of resources for single account players, which is obviously a very unattractive prospect. The alternative is to have two separate accounts, which is equally unattractive because that way the original account doesn’t get “expanded” with new content and features.

The HoT deal makes us chose between 2 bad options: no new character slots, or no new content and features for our old account.

CDUB.1645:

I think most would not complain if the $50 package included a free character slot for those that already have the core game. If you remember back to the announcement of HoT, they had GW2 for sale and people bought the core game up….. They should have had HoT w/ a free character slot. Any other game I have played ( F2P or P2P) would have given this.

Yes, if people were given more, there would be fewer complaints. There would still be some, of courrse, along a sliding scale.

Also “Would have” is a magical term that means nothing. You don’t know what they “Would Have” done in the same situation because they’re not in it, and you work for neither Anet nor any of those unspecified competitors.

It comes down to this: Complaints are what you get when someone wants something they’re not getting. They don’t have inherent value or meaning beyond this.

While I don’t feel entitled to anything. I feel a kitteneated with them being so stingy to the point that they would not include an extra character slot with the standard versions, at least for veteran players. This isn’t me feeling entitled. It’s me holding them to their own standard. They’ve always included an extra 2 character slots in their add on campaigns. I’m not angry about them including the base game. That’s a great deal for new players and is a great way to bring in new players. I would love to see this game expand. But come on. At least show you’re thinking of veterans. I honestly think something as small as the extra slot in the standard would have helped avoid all of this.

The entitlement issue should be turned on its head.

ANet is not entitled to my money until they offer something I find agreeable.

Manasa Devi.7958:

GW1 has stand-alone campaigns that came with the option of adding them to a single account so one could have the totality of the gaming world available for all characters on the account. Fusing the campaigns that way made them appear much like one game was an expansion to another game. This is what makes people confused about the whole thing, incorrectly calling Factions and Nightfall expansions.

If you owned one campaign, you’d get 4 character slots. If you bought another campaign and created a separate account for it, that account would also have 4 character slots. Joining a new campaign to an account already owning at least one other campaign, that existing account would gain 2 character slots. This added up to, like Echo said: 2 slots for the account plus 2 slots per added campaign.

Along came GW2, and somewhat later, HoT appeared, with GW2 added in for free. GW2 gave us 5 slots, and the new HoT bundle will (presumably) also give people the same 5 slots if they add that to a fresh account. Adding HoT to an existing GW2 account however, will add no slots.

With GW1, buying 2 campaigns will get you one of the following options:

• An account with campaign 1 (4 slots) and a separate account with campaign 2 (4 slots)
• A single account with both purchases combined (6 slots)

4 and 4, or 6.

With GW2, buying the basic game and the expansion that comes with a free basic game will get you one of the following options:

• An account with GW 2 basic (5 slots) and a separate account with the HoT expansion that comes with the free basic game (5 slots)
• A single account with both purchases combined: the basic game and the HoT expansion (5 slots)

5 and 5, or 5

GW1’s 4+4=6 for single account players is obviously more attractive than GW2’s 5+5=5 for single account players. GW2 completely eliminates an entire game’s worth of resources for single account players, which is obviously a very unattractive prospect. The alternative is to have two separate accounts, which is equally unattractive because that way the original account doesn’t get “expanded” with new content and features.

The HoT deal makes us chose between 2 bad options: no new character slots, or no new content and features for our old account.

^ This

JobHand.8506:

While I don’t feel entitled to anything. I feel a kitteneated with them being so stingy to the point that they would not include an extra character slot with the standard versions, at least for veteran players. This isn’t me feeling entitled. It’s me holding them to their own standard. They’ve always included an extra character slot in their expansions, which by the way had much more content and were priced the same or cheaper. I’m not angry about them including the base game. That’s a great deal for new players and is a great way to bring in new players. I would love to see this game expand. But come on. At least show you’re thinking of veterans. I honestly think something as small as the extra slot in the standard would have helped avoid all of this.

Yes, but this argument has already been invalidated several times. You didn’t get enough character slots to make one of each profession when GW2 launched and you’re not getting one now.
The fact that there’s a new profession and the fact that you used up all character slots are two separate events that are in no way connected with eachother.

Also keep in mind that there are some veterans who still have character slots left. Or don’t mind deleting an old character.

Straylight.7529:

JobHand.8506:

While I don’t feel entitled to anything. I feel a kitteneated with them being so stingy to the point that they would not include an extra character slot with the standard versions, at least for veteran players. This isn’t me feeling entitled. It’s me holding them to their own standard. They’ve always included an extra character slot in their expansions, which by the way had much more content and were priced the same or cheaper. I’m not angry about them including the base game. That’s a great deal for new players and is a great way to bring in new players. I would love to see this game expand. But come on. At least show you’re thinking of veterans. I honestly think something as small as the extra slot in the standard would have helped avoid all of this.

Yes, but this argument has already been invalidated several times. You didn’t get enough character slots to make one of each profession when GW2 launched and you’re not getting one now.
The fact that there’s a new profession and the fact that you used up all character slots are two separate events that are in no way connected with eachother.

Also keep in mind that there are some veterans who still have character slots left. Or don’t mind deleting an old character.

An opinion can’t be invalidated unless it is proven to be based upon entirely wrong premises. In every other case, it can only be disagreed with.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Straylight.7529:

JobHand.8506:

While I don’t feel entitled to anything. I feel a kitteneated with them being so stingy to the point that they would not include an extra character slot with the standard versions, at least for veteran players. This isn’t me feeling entitled. It’s me holding them to their own standard. They’ve always included an extra character slot in their expansions, which by the way had much more content and were priced the same or cheaper. I’m not angry about them including the base game. That’s a great deal for new players and is a great way to bring in new players. I would love to see this game expand. But come on. At least show you’re thinking of veterans. I honestly think something as small as the extra slot in the standard would have helped avoid all of this.

Yes, but this argument has already been invalidated several times. You didn’t get enough character slots to make one of each profession when GW2 launched and you’re not getting one now.
The fact that there’s a new profession and the fact that you used up all character slots are two separate events that are in no way connected with eachother.

Also keep in mind that there are some veterans who still have character slots left. Or don’t mind deleting an old character.

An opinion can’t be invalidated unless it is proven to be based upon entirely wrong premises. In every other case, it can only be disagreed with.

Yes it can be. I just did it. It’s a silly argument to say “they owe us a character slot because of new profession”. They don’t. For reasons that were stated numerous times.

Straylight.7529:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Straylight.7529:

JobHand.8506:

While I don’t feel entitled to anything. I feel a kitteneated with them being so stingy to the point that they would not include an extra character slot with the standard versions, at least for veteran players. This isn’t me feeling entitled. It’s me holding them to their own standard. They’ve always included an extra character slot in their expansions, which by the way had much more content and were priced the same or cheaper. I’m not angry about them including the base game. That’s a great deal for new players and is a great way to bring in new players. I would love to see this game expand. But come on. At least show you’re thinking of veterans. I honestly think something as small as the extra slot in the standard would have helped avoid all of this.

Yes, but this argument has already been invalidated several times. You didn’t get enough character slots to make one of each profession when GW2 launched and you’re not getting one now.
The fact that there’s a new profession and the fact that you used up all character slots are two separate events that are in no way connected with eachother.

Also keep in mind that there are some veterans who still have character slots left. Or don’t mind deleting an old character.

An opinion can’t be invalidated unless it is proven to be based upon entirely wrong premises. In every other case, it can only be disagreed with.

Yes it can be. I just did it. It’s a silly argument to say “they owe as a character slot because of new profession”. They don’t. For reasons that were stated numerous times.

That’s indeed a silly argument, but why are we talking about this? No one made that argument in the quote train we’re in now.

I can do one too!

It’s a silly argument to say “all trees are blue because birds have 2 legs”.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Straylight.7529:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Straylight.7529:

JobHand.8506:

While I don’t feel entitled to anything. I feel a kitteneated with them being so stingy to the point that they would not include an extra character slot with the standard versions, at least for veteran players. This isn’t me feeling entitled. It’s me holding them to their own standard. They’ve always included an extra character slot in their expansions, which by the way had much more content and were priced the same or cheaper. I’m not angry about them including the base game. That’s a great deal for new players and is a great way to bring in new players. I would love to see this game expand. But come on. At least show you’re thinking of veterans. I honestly think something as small as the extra slot in the standard would have helped avoid all of this.

Yes, but this argument has already been invalidated several times. You didn’t get enough character slots to make one of each profession when GW2 launched and you’re not getting one now.
The fact that there’s a new profession and the fact that you used up all character slots are two separate events that are in no way connected with eachother.

Also keep in mind that there are some veterans who still have character slots left. Or don’t mind deleting an old character.

An opinion can’t be invalidated unless it is proven to be based upon entirely wrong premises. In every other case, it can only be disagreed with.

Yes it can be. I just did it. It’s a silly argument to say “they owe as a character slot because of new profession”. They don’t. For reasons that were stated numerous times.

That’s indeed a silly argument, but why are we talking about this? No one made that argument in the quote train we’re in now.

I can do one too!

It’s a silly argument to say “all trees are blue because birds have 2 legs”.

Because you’re deliberately not quoting the part I was refering to. See JobHand’s Post.

Manasa Devi.7958:

The entitlement issue should be turned on its head.

ANet is not entitled to my money until they offer something I find agreeable.

Then don’t pay.

The trick is, if you say “It’s not fair!” or “Arenanet owes us this!” or any of the other variations on the complaint, expect some blowback.

Again, it’s about tone and attitude. People don’t care about you not buying if that’s what you think right, but the overwhelming tone, even in the thread titles, is simply not how adults act.

~~~

I think a lot of the inter-player conflict in this goes along this.

1) A few really loud voices go crazy and throw out this over-the-top spoiled language.
2) Lots of people who don’t like the cost, are annoyed by needing to clear or buy a slot, etc. get onboard digging that sweet outrage high.
3) Another group reacts to that first group the way you feel when you see a particularly spoiled child nagging their mother at the grocery store.
4) The people who aren’t so strident (or didn’t start that way) are both insulted by the implication they’re being bratty children and double down due to the opposition effect, coming closer to the actual bratty children squalling up in point 1.

~~~~

In short, people aren’t saying you can’t complain, people aren’t saying you have to buy (let alone preorder), people aren’t even saying that arenanet is doing a totally smart thing with this marketing.

What they are saying is “Wow some of these people are like a spoiled 6 year old who’s learned that if he yells at his mom enough she’ll give in and buy him that toy. Man I hate seeing that.”

Hi, I’m new, I saw the stuff about hearts of thorns, but i’m scared of flying and heights, I’d like to buy the original guild wars 2 without the scary expansion.

where can I find the un-expanded version of guildwars 2 on the official guildwars2 site please ?

Straylight.7529:

Also keep in mind that there are some veterans who still have character slots left. Or don’t mind deleting an old character.

or have bought slots in the past and are willing again or even have decided that $60 worth of ingame stuff (4000 gems + slot) is worth paying an extra $50 on a preorder.

If you’ve got cash and buy gems with $$$ anyways, that last one is actually a pretty good deal :p

Straylight.7529:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Straylight.7529:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Straylight.7529:

JobHand.8506:

While I don’t feel entitled to anything. I feel a kitteneated with them being so stingy to the point that they would not include an extra character slot with the standard versions, at least for veteran players. This isn’t me feeling entitled. It’s me holding them to their own standard. They’ve always included an extra character slot in their expansions, which by the way had much more content and were priced the same or cheaper. I’m not angry about them including the base game. That’s a great deal for new players and is a great way to bring in new players. I would love to see this game expand. But come on. At least show you’re thinking of veterans. I honestly think something as small as the extra slot in the standard would have helped avoid all of this.

Yes, but this argument has already been invalidated several times. You didn’t get enough character slots to make one of each profession when GW2 launched and you’re not getting one now.
The fact that there’s a new profession and the fact that you used up all character slots are two separate events that are in no way connected with eachother.

Also keep in mind that there are some veterans who still have character slots left. Or don’t mind deleting an old character.

An opinion can’t be invalidated unless it is proven to be based upon entirely wrong premises. In every other case, it can only be disagreed with.

Yes it can be. I just did it. It’s a silly argument to say “they owe as a character slot because of new profession”. They don’t. For reasons that were stated numerous times.

That’s indeed a silly argument, but why are we talking about this? No one made that argument in the quote train we’re in now.

I can do one too!

It’s a silly argument to say “all trees are blue because birds have 2 legs”.

Because you’re deliberately not quoting the part I was refering to. See JobHand’s Post.

I was referring to that post as well. Nowhere does it claim we’re owed anything.

Ricky.4706:

Hi, I’m new, I saw the stuff about hearts of thorns, but i’m scared of flying and heights, I’d like to buy the original guild wars 2 without the scary expansion.

where can I find the un-expanded version of guildwars 2 on the official guildwars2 site please ?

You can’t. But what you can do is pay for HoT get the core game for free and choose not to go to the new zones. It’s the financially most feasible solution.

Manasa Devi.7958:

I was referring to that post as well. Nowhere does it claim we’re owed anything.

Here, let me help you:

JobHand.8506:

While I don’t feel entitled to anything. I feel a kitteneated with them being so stingy to the point that they would not include an extra character slot with the standard versions, at least for veteran players. This isn’t me feeling entitled. It’s me holding them to their own standard. They’ve always included an extra character slot in their expansions, which by the way had much more content and were priced the same or cheaper. I’m not angry about them including the base game. That’s a great deal for new players and is a great way to bring in new players. I would love to see this game expand. But come on. At least show you’re thinking of veterans. I honestly think something as small as the extra slot in the standard would have helped avoid all of this.

Windsagio.1340:

Manasa Devi.7958:

The entitlement issue should be turned on its head.

ANet is not entitled to my money until they offer something I find agreeable.

Then don’t pay.

The trick is, if you say “It’s not fair!” or “Arenanet owes us this!” or any of the other variations on the complaint, expect some blowback.

Again, it’s about tone and attitude. People don’t care about you not buying if that’s what you think right, but the overwhelming tone, even in the thread titles, is simply not how adults act.

~~~

I think a lot of the inter-player conflict in this goes along this.

1) A few really loud voices go crazy and throw out this over-the-top spoiled language.
2) Lots of people who don’t like the cost, are annoyed by needing to clear or buy a slot, etc. get onboard digging that sweet outrage high.
3) Another group reacts to that first group the way you feel when you see a particularly spoiled child nagging their mother at the grocery store.
4) The people who aren’t so strident (or didn’t start that way) are both insulted by the implication they’re being bratty children and double down due to the opposition effect, coming closer to the actual bratty children squalling up in point 1.

~~~~

In short, people aren’t saying you can’t complain, people aren’t saying you have to buy (let alone preorder), people aren’t even saying that arenanet is doing a totally smart thing with this marketing.

What they are saying is “Wow some of these people are like a spoiled 6 year old who’s learned that if he yells at his mom enough she’ll give in and buy him that toy. Man I hate seeing that.”

The only reason this has escalated is the preponderance of posters who think they can argue with opinion and are doing so in the same or worse tone than the people posting critically.

Straylight.7529:

Manasa Devi.7958:

I was referring to that post as well. Nowhere does it claim we’re owed anything.

Here, let me help you:

JobHand.8506:

While I don’t feel entitled to anything. I feel a kitteneated with them being so stingy to the point that they would not include an extra character slot with the standard versions, at least for veteran players. This isn’t me feeling entitled. It’s me holding them to their own standard. They’ve always included an extra character slot in their expansions, which by the way had much more content and were priced the same or cheaper. I’m not angry about them including the base game. That’s a great deal for new players and is a great way to bring in new players. I would love to see this game expand. But come on. At least show you’re thinking of veterans. I honestly think something as small as the extra slot in the standard would have helped avoid all of this.

Okay… still not seeing it. Maybe you can bold the section you’re referring to?

Manasa Devi.7958:

The only reason this has escalated is the preponderance of posters who think they can argue with opinion and are doing so in the same or worse tone than the people posting critically.

That’s exactly his point. They are not posting critically. They are posting like whiny children who get upset tummies because they’re not getting what they want. This is not a bazaar. You can’t haggle for the price. If you want HoT you need to shelve out 50$ no matter if you’re a veteran or a new player.

thank you, but the ad says it’s 2 products, I just want the main one without the flying, thats scary. they are 2 different products right ?

Manasa Devi.7958:

JobHand.8506:

While I don’t feel entitled to anything. I feel a kitteneated with them being so stingy to the point that they would not include an extra character slot with the standard versions, at least for veteran players. This isn’t me feeling entitled. It’s me holding them to their own standard. They’ve always included an extra character slotin their expansions, which by the way had much more content and were priced the same or cheaper. I’m not angry about them including the base game. That’s a great deal for new players and is a great way to bring in new players. I would love to see this game expand. But come on. At least show you’re thinking of veterans. I honestly think something as small as the extra slot in the standard would have helped avoid all of this.

Okay… still not seeing it. Maybe you can bold the section you’re referring to?

There you go. He feels entitled to an extra character slot.

Ricky.4706:

thank you, but the ad says it’s 2 products, I just want the main one without the flying, thats scary. they are 2 different products right ?

I can win this argument in two ways. First, nowhere does it say it’s two products. It’s one game that receives an update in form of an expansion. The expansion is seamlessly incorporated into the game. Therefore one product.

Secondly, even if it was two different products you can simply chose not to fly or to go to the new HoT-zones.

Since you already own the game you can simply choose not to buy HoT. As a result you’ll never get confronted with scary flying.

but i just want the main program. I don’t want the scary expansion. where do i get that on the official site ? i don’t want it there, my neighbor is mean and might bring my character there when i’m not home. as i understand it, there is guildwars core, and hot the expansion. I just want guildwars core please.

Ricky.4706:

but i just want the main program. I don’t want the scary expansion. where do i get that on the official site ? i don’t want it there, my neighbor is mean and might bring my character there when i’m not home. as i understand it, there is guildwars core, and hot the expansion. I just want guildwars core please.

You can buy it for 50$. It contains all the old zones plus the new HoT-content. Simply ignore the latter and don’t venture into the new zones.