Guild Wars 2

its now the 9th time I try this event boss and its now the 9th time I failed this boss. why do I want to defeat him? it’s because I need this trophy called Protector of the Exalted… I belive he is possible to kill but now every body moved on to your new map.. could you nerf the boss in order to be possible to kill him with 20 ppl because each time I try, I have 20 or less ppl with me and I posted forum for my serv, (sea of sorrows) with my character name (Gollum Le Ptit Zi) and my acount name (ilovepankake.2906) and I tried posting Looking for group event for this boss but the most ppl I could get was 23 ppl and we ONLY MIDLIFED HIM… sorry but the problem isnt that the serv is’nt populated enough last saturday the miniatures were disabled because of the population.. the problem here is that there is now no one in auric bassin. ty for your collaboration ill be waiting…

He doesnt need a nerf, people need to use their brain and cc him

He really is just a big HP sponge. That could stand to be dropped.

I’m pretty sure his Defiance bar needs a tweak as well. His vulnerable phase isn’t long enough, and I’ve never seen his bar broken because of it.

“Major nerf”, though? Maybe not. Couple of tweaks to make that fight not such a horrible slough to finish and better opportunity to CC the blue bar. That’s it. Otherwise, it’s a fine enough fight.

If players would use their CC instead of being deadweight, it would be no issue. I’ve seen an entire map burn him down so there no reason smaller groups cannot.

Thought about it some more and players likely just don’t know what CC is as there hasn’t been a need for it until recently (relatively).

The best action that can probably be taken, although not the easiest, would be to instruct players exactly what is CC. Simply saying conditions like daze, knockdown, stun, fear, and so on may be just enough to give players a general idea on what to look for. Just have them check there utilities and skills for skill that produce such effects and to save them when the break-bar is up.

Never call for nerfs. It’s a bad habit to get into.

~EW

ilovepankake.2906:

could you nerf the boss in order to be possible to kill him with 20 ppl because each time I try, I have 20 or less ppl with me

I killed Vinetooth Prime with five people a couple of days ago. The number of people you have doesn’t matter much, and can actually hamper you if there’s too many people who don’t know what they’re doing. A small group that brings a lot of stun/CC skills is going to outperform a large group that just auto-attacks.

Are you slotting yourself with every stun you have available to you before the fight? Are you playing as a class that has exceptional break-bar destroying potential? If not, consider doing that before the fight, and not calling in the entire map to “help”. Unless the entire map brings stuns as well, they’re going to be a hindrance, scaling up the breakbar and making it impossible for the few people who know what they’re doing to actually succeed at the fight.

Fewer people is actually better. Less chance of having people failing to CC and even if they do fail to do that it is probably less impactful if you brought a decent number of your own. People usually seem to fail to take advantage of the adrenal mushrooms as well.

ilovepankake.2906:

I belive he is possible to kill but now every body moved on to your new map.. could you nerf the boss in order to be possible to kill him with 20 ppl because each time I try, I have 20 or less ppl with me

It’s doable with less than 20. Last time i did it, it’s only with 5-10 people around. The thing about VT Prime is that you really need to CC him when the breakbar comes out. 5-10 people that knows what theyre doing and bring lots of CC is much better against VT Prime than a zerg that just autoattacks as the breakbar scales with people. It’s the same with the wyverns.

The problem with Vinetooth Prime is that it is all about the breakbar mechanic which is poorly explained to new players through just playing the game and most people, like this post shows, just spam chat to CC which some may not understand then rage when it goes wrong…

A few tips that I find useful when running a Vinetooth kill:
1. Start up or look for a LFG party straight after the meta has finished.
2. Explain the fight early, giving enough time for people to change their builds.
3. Explain the breakbar mechanic to the group. Hard CC is what you need. If unsure yourself, look up defiance bar in the wiki.
4. Ping key skills you use, for example I main a Mesmer so i make sure they know to bring signet of humility etc. Usually the rest of the squad who know what to do follow suit with their profession.

Just remember that damage isn’t important as long as you can manage the breakbar. Explaining to people what to do rather than saying git gud does wonders.

I watched a YouTube video the other night of a Mesmer killing this boss solo. So no, I don’t think it needs to be nerfed. I think players, including myself, need to adjust their style and fight better. I know we can’t all solo everything, like that Vampire Bat in Verdant Brink – but I bet some people have. Standen is right, post something in map chat and people will usually come to help, unless you’re in a map that’s obviously trying to go for the meta event.

Khisanth.2948:

Fewer people is actually better. Less chance of having people failing to CC and even if they do fail to do that it is probably less impactful if you brought a decent number of your own. People usually seem to fail to take advantage of the adrenal mushrooms as well.

They also don’t use the Exalted Assistance shrine tucked in the back corner. The more people that use it, the faster it appears and the stronger it is. Use your masteries, people!

I killed it solo(ish) a time ago. I was bored and just spent like… 30 mins kiting and curing myself while sloooooooooowly taking away its life. It was… not very wise, and really inneficient.

From time to time, a few other players appeared and helped me for a few minutes, but nobody actually was interested in losing so much time, so I the end I was alone when I landed the last blow.

Vinetooth has a 10 minute timer… I wouldn’t recommend you solo it unless you are very knowledgeable about your class. Far easier/quicker to group up.

Rauderi.8706:

Khisanth.2948:

Fewer people is actually better. Less chance of having people failing to CC and even if they do fail to do that it is probably less impactful if you brought a decent number of your own. People usually seem to fail to take advantage of the adrenal mushrooms as well.

They also don’t use the Exalted Assistance shrine tucked in the back corner. The more people that use it, the faster it appears and the stronger it is. Use your masteries, people!

I have never seen the Exalted do anything except stand around and be useless…

I’ve seen it killed with as few as 6 people and fail with as many as 40+. The difference is 80% in whether people can CC it when the breakbar goes up and 20% whether people are able to avoid Prime’s damage bursts (or recover/heal-each-other safely, depending).

To me, that makes it decently balanced: it’s a skill-based encounter, rather than just an auto-attacking snoozefest.

There should probably be better in-game information about CC (maybe a “break bar damage” stat on skills) but vinetooth himself is totally fine. If you break him even once it is an easy kill, and with a big enough zerg he will die even if he never gets broken.

Dinosaurs.8674:

There should probably be better in-game information about CC (maybe a “break bar damage” stat on skills)

Now that’s an awesome idea… I urge you to add it to the QoL suggestions thread in General Discussion.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Dinosaurs.8674:

There should probably be better in-game information about CC (maybe a “break bar damage” stat on skills)

Now that’s an awesome idea… I urge you to add it to the QoL suggestions thread in General Discussion.

~EW

It’s come up before as a standalone thread and in other “wut is cc?” info dumps.
Still a great idea. Better communication is better for the game as a whole.

Rauderi.8706:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Dinosaurs.8674:

There should probably be better in-game information about CC (maybe a “break bar damage” stat on skills)

Now that’s an awesome idea… I urge you to add it to the QoL suggestions thread in General Discussion.

~EW

It’s come up before as a standalone thread and in other “wut is cc?” info dumps.
Still a great idea. Better communication is better for the game as a whole.

That doesn’t surprise me, tbh… but it was the first time I’ve read it… and it never hurts to repeat a good idea in a thread that’s more likely to be read by those who’d take up the idea.

~EW

Khisanth.2948:

Rauderi.8706:

Khisanth.2948:

Fewer people is actually better. Less chance of having people failing to CC and even if they do fail to do that it is probably less impactful if you brought a decent number of your own. People usually seem to fail to take advantage of the adrenal mushrooms as well.

They also don’t use the Exalted Assistance shrine tucked in the back corner. The more people that use it, the faster it appears and the stronger it is. Use your masteries, people!

I have never seen the Exalted do anything except stand around and be useless…

If only one or two people trigger it, yeah, it stands around like a lump or gets killed pretty quickly. The point is that it ‘charges up’ as people contribute to it. Everyone with Exalted Assistance (which isn’t even hard to get) should be poking it when the fight starts.

There are plenty of things in the game which should be nerfed (imo), but I am not convinced Vinetooth is one of them. Or at least not until we reach a new expansion and HoT in general needs nerfing “if” the population in HoT isn’t as high as it has been.

The issue with Vinetooth simply is a lack of awareness and training in what is cc and how breakbars work. We have suggested this as dozens of different threads since HoT came out and I am a little surprised we haven’t seen something added yet.

If everyone equipped cc before the fight begins and uses the adrenal mushrooms (where mastery exists) to reset cc between breakbars, then it’s a smooth fight.

Randulf.7614:

There are plenty of things in the game which should be nerfed (imo), but I am not convinced Vinetooth is one of them. Or at least not until we reach a new expansion and HoT in general needs nerfing “if” the population in HoT isn’t as high as it has been.

The issue with Vinetooth simply is a lack of awareness and training in what is cc and how breakbars work. We have suggested this as dozens of different threads since HoT came out and I am a little surprised we haven’t seen something added yet.

If everyone equipped cc before the fight begins and uses the adrenal mushrooms (where mastery exists) to reset cc between breakbars, then it’s a smooth fight.

Actually there is a second issue with VT.

After it finishes doing it’s jumping thing it will take a short walk. If you try to CC while it is doing the walking in many cases the CC will miss.

Khisanth.2948:

Randulf.7614:

There are plenty of things in the game which should be nerfed (imo), but I am not convinced Vinetooth is one of them. Or at least not until we reach a new expansion and HoT in general needs nerfing “if” the population in HoT isn’t as high as it has been.

The issue with Vinetooth simply is a lack of awareness and training in what is cc and how breakbars work. We have suggested this as dozens of different threads since HoT came out and I am a little surprised we haven’t seen something added yet.

If everyone equipped cc before the fight begins and uses the adrenal mushrooms (where mastery exists) to reset cc between breakbars, then it’s a smooth fight.

Actually there is a second issue with VT.

After it finishes doing it’s jumping thing it will take a short walk. If you try to CC while it is doing the walking in many cases the CC will miss.

Ah yes, good point – that trips up a lot of ppl’s cooldowns

Khisanth.2948:

Randulf.7614:

There are plenty of things in the game which should be nerfed (imo), but I am not convinced Vinetooth is one of them. Or at least not until we reach a new expansion and HoT in general needs nerfing “if” the population in HoT isn’t as high as it has been.

The issue with Vinetooth simply is a lack of awareness and training in what is cc and how breakbars work. We have suggested this as dozens of different threads since HoT came out and I am a little surprised we haven’t seen something added yet.

If everyone equipped cc before the fight begins and uses the adrenal mushrooms (where mastery exists) to reset cc between breakbars, then it’s a smooth fight.

Actually there is a second issue with VT.

After it finishes doing it’s jumping thing it will take a short walk. If you try to CC while it is doing the walking in many cases the CC will miss.

…
AAAGH, I know exactly what you mean.
When I’ve tried it, I was usually on my hammer-warrior, and chasing that kitten gives me an extra dose of rage.

Only 10 mins? it really felt like much, much more.

I’ve killed the Vinetooth with only two other people. As soon as the breakbar popped up, the Mesmer broke it by himself. It was smoother and quicker than any 30+ Vinetooth events I had participated in.

Ardid.7203:

Only 10 mins? it really felt like much, much more.

Are you sure it was the correct vinetooth?

This goes back to the poor breakbar messaging for new players.

Remember when they added dodge trainers for new players?

Anet changed defiance to the breakbar mechanic with HoT, but didn’t update the learning/tutorial experience. Couple that with how easy to 1-80 game is, and with the fact thay’re enabling people to instant 80, and it’s no small wonder that people are walking in to GW2’s open world endgame with no clue how to actually play the game.

At the very least there should be a mandatory breakbar tutorial section in the first hoT mission, since prior to HoT breakbars exist, but since they’re just defiance replacements none of them are actually crucial to defeating the bosses and champs that have them.

Ardid.7203:

I killed it solo(ish) a time ago. I was bored and just spent like… 30 mins kiting and curing myself while sloooooooooowly taking away its life. It was… not very wise, and really inneficient.

From time to time, a few other players appeared and helped me for a few minutes, but nobody actually was interested in losing so much time, so I the end I was alone when I landed the last blow.

I don’t think you’re thinking of the same Vinetooth. Vinetooth Prime has a ten minute timer, as mentioned, but it also has an attack where it targets a single player, chases and downs them no matter how they defend, and needs to have its breakbar broken to avoid killing the downed player outright. If you’re fighting it alone, congratulations, you’re the target for that attack and will get downed.

It is possible for the downed player to escape the fatal attack using a downed teleport skill, which Mesmers do have access to, but that doesn’t help you pick yourself back up. Theoretically, you could also double-Signet of Humility with Continuum Split in the brief time you have before it downs you to break its bar. It’s far more likely, though, that you’re just thinking of another Vinetooth.

PopeUrban.2578:

This goes back to the poor breakbar messaging for new players.

Remember when they added dodge trainers for new players?

Anet changed defiance to the breakbar mechanic with HoT, but didn’t update the learning/tutorial experience. Couple that with how easy to 1-80 game is, and with the fact thay’re enabling people to instant 80, and it’s no small wonder that people are walking in to GW2’s open world endgame with no clue how to actually play the game.

At the very least there should be a mandatory breakbar tutorial section in the first hoT mission, since prior to HoT breakbars exist, but since they’re just defiance replacements none of them are actually crucial to defeating the bosses and champs that have them.

I second this so badly. It seems the only way ‘new’ players, read, people that didn’t play the base game but joined on the HoT release, learn about the break bar mechanism is when people in smaller instances, where it is noticable if an individual isn’t pulling it’s weight CC-wise, gets cursed at for days because he’s not helping.

Usually only after that people realize, oh that blue bar thingy, I have to use CC to drain that before it’s actually handy to burst DPS at it. I personally returned to the game after a 1,5 year break, picked up HoT on the sale, but got used to the mechanic fairly rapidly due to, hey I see something new, let’s Google that. It is, however, poorly explained in-game actually and leads to a lot of instances wiping, open world events failing, when people do not actually know when/why they have to use their CC abilities.

NL Dennis.9048:

PopeUrban.2578:

This goes back to the poor breakbar messaging for new players.

Remember when they added dodge trainers for new players?

Anet changed defiance to the breakbar mechanic with HoT, but didn’t update the learning/tutorial experience. Couple that with how easy to 1-80 game is, and with the fact thay’re enabling people to instant 80, and it’s no small wonder that people are walking in to GW2’s open world endgame with no clue how to actually play the game.

At the very least there should be a mandatory breakbar tutorial section in the first hoT mission, since prior to HoT breakbars exist, but since they’re just defiance replacements none of them are actually crucial to defeating the bosses and champs that have them.

I second this so badly. It seems the only way ‘new’ players, read, people that didn’t play the base game but joined on the HoT release, learn about the break bar mechanism is when people in smaller instances, where it is noticable if an individual isn’t pulling it’s weight CC-wise, gets cursed at for days because he’s not helping.

Usually only after that people realize, oh that blue bar thingy, I have to use CC to drain that before it’s actually handy to burst DPS at it. I personally returned to the game after a 1,5 year break, picked up HoT on the sale, but got used to the mechanic fairly rapidly due to, hey I see something new, let’s Google that. It is, however, poorly explained in-game actually and leads to a lot of instances wiping, open world events failing, when people do not actually know when/why they have to use their CC abilities.

That is assuming they even know what is a CC and then which of their skills counts as one …

Well, the term CC is nothing new to anyone that has ever played about any MMO, ever, I guess, and knowing what’s a CC skill, dear God, I do hope some people actually still read their skillbar/know what their skills do before they just start bashing their keyboard to spam them.

NL Dennis.9048:

Well, the term CC is nothing new to anyone that has ever played about any MMO, ever, I guess, and knowing what’s a CC skill, dear God, I do hope some people actually still read their skillbar/know what their skills do before they just start bashing their keyboard to spam them.

We might think of that as “basic” knowledge but sadly that is far from the truth.

Maybe put a blue border around skills that do breakbar damage or something so its easier to communicate? Then you could just have one of those text tutorial context things with an arrow “this enemy has a breakbar! Use skills with a blue border to damage break bars!” As well as a break bar damage stat in the mouseover info.

How is a new player meant to realise what’s soft CC and hard CC and the differences between them without explanation. When you tell people to spam CC at Vinetooth they may focus on crippling it without realising it only does a tiny amount of damage over time to the breakbar. You can’t blame people for being confused.

I’d love breakbar effects added to skills yet even a practice golem in the silverwastes with a NPC that explains the breakbar mechanic would be very helpful to new players to try out their skills without the threat of dying. Players in a game shouldn’t have to use outside sources to learn basic key mechanics.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Ardid.7203:

I killed it solo(ish) a time ago. I was bored and just spent like… 30 mins kiting and curing myself while sloooooooooowly taking away its life. It was… not very wise, and really inneficient.

From time to time, a few other players appeared and helped me for a few minutes, but nobody actually was interested in losing so much time, so I the end I was alone when I landed the last blow.

I don’t think you’re thinking of the same Vinetooth. Vinetooth Prime has a ten minute timer, as mentioned, but it also has an attack where it targets a single player, chases and downs them no matter how they defend, and needs to have its breakbar broken to avoid killing the downed player outright. If you’re fighting it alone, congratulations, you’re the target for that attack and will get downed.

It is possible for the downed player to escape the fatal attack using a downed teleport skill, which Mesmers do have access to, but that doesn’t help you pick yourself back up. Theoretically, you could also double-Signet of Humility with Continuum Split in the brief time you have before it downs you to break its bar. It’s far more likely, though, that you’re just thinking of another Vinetooth.

I HAVE to be wrong, then. I don’t remember it ever doing an attack that nasty. It was a Vinethoot, that I’m sure, and it WAS an infinite damage sponge, but clearly not this much evil.

Ardid.7203:

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Ardid.7203:

I killed it solo(ish) a time ago. I was bored and just spent like… 30 mins kiting and curing myself while sloooooooooowly taking away its life. It was… not very wise, and really inneficient.

From time to time, a few other players appeared and helped me for a few minutes, but nobody actually was interested in losing so much time, so I the end I was alone when I landed the last blow.

I don’t think you’re thinking of the same Vinetooth. Vinetooth Prime has a ten minute timer, as mentioned, but it also has an attack where it targets a single player, chases and downs them no matter how they defend, and needs to have its breakbar broken to avoid killing the downed player outright. If you’re fighting it alone, congratulations, you’re the target for that attack and will get downed.

It is possible for the downed player to escape the fatal attack using a downed teleport skill, which Mesmers do have access to, but that doesn’t help you pick yourself back up. Theoretically, you could also double-Signet of Humility with Continuum Split in the brief time you have before it downs you to break its bar. It’s far more likely, though, that you’re just thinking of another Vinetooth.

I HAVE to be wrong, then. I don’t remember it ever doing an attack that nasty. It was a Vinethoot, that I’m sure, and it WAS an infinite damage sponge, but clearly not this much evil.

There are many vinetooth events around AB. Prime requires doing the pylons to get it to spawn. Usually the people pushing the pylons will go for VP as well so it is generally unlikely to even get an attempt at soloing it.

It’s 1 of 2 things, either people not knowing to use cc (or what it is) – OR – simply not enough people; potentially both.

Khisanth.2948:

There are many vinetooth events around AB. Prime requires doing the pylons to get it to spawn. Usually the people pushing the pylons will go for VP as well so it is generally unlikely to even get an attempt at soloing it.

I actually got to do another low-man run on it a couple of days ago. There was a small group of players doing Eastwatch events, and I popped up to help with the last one. When the Vinetooth Prime ran off into its cave, everyone just stood around without saying anything. I finally went with my party member and entered the cave, confident that as a thief I could teleport away from the insta-down attack it would lead off with, which I did. The other handful of players followed us in to fight, and once again even with just six people, it was an easy battle, we broke every bar after that first one.

Definitely a better fight with less people, as long as some of those people know how to use CC. Very much like the Wyvern Matriarch in VB, where when enough camps are lost that I can solo it, I can bring it down much faster than when there’s 40+ people who don’t know the fight mechanics.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Khisanth.2948:

There are many vinetooth events around AB. Prime requires doing the pylons to get it to spawn. Usually the people pushing the pylons will go for VP as well so it is generally unlikely to even get an attempt at soloing it.

I actually got to do another low-man run on it a couple of days ago. There was a small group of players doing Eastwatch events, and I popped up to help with the last one. When the Vinetooth Prime ran off into its cave, everyone just stood around without saying anything. I finally went with my party member and entered the cave, confident that as a thief I could teleport away from the insta-down attack it would lead off with, which I did. The other handful of players followed us in to fight, and once again even with just six people, it was an easy battle, we broke every bar after that first one.

Definitely a better fight with less people, as long as some of those people know how to use CC. Very much like the Wyvern Matriarch in VB, where when enough camps are lost that I can solo it, I can bring it down much faster than when there’s 40+ people who don’t know the fight mechanics.

Venom sharing basilisk is also useful although maybe not as useful anymore now that it got reduced to 1 strike.

I was definitely abusing the Venomshare Basilisk! It’s not as strong as pre-patch Venomshare Basilisk, but now I can do it without weakening myself by taking Shadow Arts. You can see the breakbar explode when you get 4 or 5 people Venomshared.

For soloing the Matriarch, Impact Strike is more useful for being able to deliver two CC attacks instead of one. Using that in combination with Tripwire, Fist Flurry/Palm Strike and the often-stolen Branch Bash is more than enough to break the bar of the Matriarch when you’re alone. The biggest threat in that fight is actually when the adds start to appear at half health, since those little ones do even more damage than their mother.

My post was a bit harsh and didn’t really accomplish much so I’ll take another stab at it.

Vinetooth doesn’t really need a nerf. I’ve seen in killed with just a handful of players and I’ve seen it killed with the entire map practically stacked on it. I’ve also seen it fail in both scenarios with the leading reason being a lack of CC.

Let’s face it. Until HoT, players never really needed to know how to CC. It had some uses to interrupts attacks but PvE was generally easy enough where even that wasn’t necessary. Now we have the new mechanic with the break-bar where we need to deplete it with control skills to prevent devastating attacks, stop a devastating attack, or to open it up for a bun phase. The latter being the case with the vinetooth.

The best solution would probably be to list off exactly what the CC effects are before any fights where it would matter. It can even be some message saved in notepad that you copy and paste into map chat. Players can then looks at their skills/utilities, see what produces those effects, and save them for when the break-bar is up. Quite often the break-bar is on a timer or during a phase which is predictable. It just takes one person to step up and lead players into preparing to use CC and then to actually use it.