We need a new map.....
I really really want a new Orr map actually. We still have 1/4 of Orr that we can’t go inside, no map there. And it looks like Zhaitan’s layer was inside of it if I recall the personal story correctly. I think it would be really cool to have this new map only be accessible after you have finished your personal story and Zhaitan is dead, and this new Orr map would be whats left of his risen and generals. For a meta event it could be similar to AB in that there is a new city that the Pact or someone is trying to colonize, and every so often the rest of the Risen, lead by one of the more powerful generals left alive, will take over and you have to cleanse the city to get it back.
Yeah I was kind of hoping that the spring update would change the map progression to be player driven like silverwastes instead of being on a timer.
I wasn’t around prior to HoT, so I don’t know all the angles. What do you expect the pros and cons of making that switch would be?
James Quall.6029Yeah I was kind of hoping that the spring update would change the map progression to be player driven like silverwastes instead of being on a timer
Agree. All the events in the new maps should be reworked to be player driven. Because, in fact, the PACT is moving. He is continuously in the offensive. Defending the outposts / building camps are not defensive moves, are preparation for the attack. Time driven events makes the situation a bit …. inconsistent. For example:
Verdant Brink: The fleet is destroyed. The survivors started to regroup in an attempt to ……… go further in Auric Basin. I never saw any reference to a retreat. They are determined to continue. So, they start to build the base for an offensive maneuver. In SW the big bosses pop-up when the preparations reaches a certain level as a last resort to disrupt the Pact attack and to save the Vinewrath. Here the big bosses appears at night – not related with the Pact level of strength or in an attempt to disrupt their efforts. In VB the bosses acts as common predators and not as Commanders. In a player driven map the bosses should pop when the preparations reach a certain level (as in SW). And another weird thing: After all the effort to build up camps and outposts, the Pact local leaders tell the other that the Choppers will come to EVACUATE ??? all the survivors? The move forward to Auric Basin is in fact an escape?
Auric Basin: Another strange situation: Every single Exalted tell us that we should DEFEND Tarir from Mordrems. And still, in the last phase of the event we ATTACK the Mordrems to break the siege they set-up against the city. More accurate should be that the Exalted ask for help to FREE Tarir from the siege. And that means a player driven map – we attack when we are ready (that means a certain level of preparation). In this way we are spared to see the sad note that “an Exalted sacrificed himself to save the Tarir ..” With the knowledge and materials from Exalted / help from skrits, the Pact is moving forward to Tangled Depths.
The Tangled Depths is even stranger :-)): In the final phase we should stop the chacks to reach the cannons. What cannons? Nowhere during the meta event we can find a word about the super cannons. Normally should be that every lane to build its own cannon. And the attack to start when the cannons are ready. But this means a player driven map. In the Anet vision the chacks should attack at the same hour, regardless of the fact that nobody worked to craft the super cannons. To make a time driven map, Anet forces now the idea that the cannons can craft themselves from nothing.
We are now in Dragon Stand. Again – why a race against the clock? We should build our offensive first. This is a fight against an Elder Dragon and not “The charge of the Light Cavalry”. Still, even with some … imperfections, this seems to be the most logic meta event in HoT.
Sorry for this long post. In my opinion we don’t need a new map. We need that the four maps in HoT to be changed in order to have a meta event driven by players and not by timers. Because, I think, the players completes the event. The time is not playing the game.
The problem with player driven maps, a problem Anet was trying to get away from, is the problem of people just going from map to map that’s ready to pop, leeching, while a couple of people do the events on those maps, to progress the meta.
The Silverwastes maps are a perfect example. A few people who don’t know sit on a map and play it, until it’s about to pop and then everyone jumps in and cleans up the rewards. People stand around leeching the whole time sometimes, afk and never do anything until it pops. This is a problem for those of us who actually play the game.
That wasn’t working. There were complaints about it. Anet tried something else.
Now, since these events are on a timer, everyone knows when to show up and they show up if they can.
That has obvious issues as well. And now, with the AB loot meta gone crazy, people will do that over and over again, which means other zones don’t get as many people coming to them. 10 maps filled at AB most times and only one map full at TD because why would you ever leave farming AB?
If people wouldn’t exploit or just go for their own personal gain, Anet wouldn’t have to do stuff like this. I wish it were different.
The problem with player driven maps, a problem Anet was trying to get away from, is the problem of people just going from map to map that’s ready to pop, leeching, while a couple of people do the events on those maps, to progress the meta.
The Silverwastes maps are a perfect example. A few people who don’t know sit on a map and play it, until it’s about to pop and then everyone jumps in and cleans up the rewards. People stand around leeching the whole time sometimes, afk and never do anything until it pops. This is a problem for those of us who actually play the game.
That wasn’t working. There were complaints about it. Anet tried something else.
Now, since these events are on a timer, everyone knows when to show up and they show up if they can.
That has obvious issues as well. And now, with the AB loot meta gone crazy, people will do that over and over again, which means other zones don’t get as many people coming to them. 10 maps filled at AB most times and only one map full at TD because why would you ever leave farming AB?
If people wouldn’t exploit or just go for their own personal gain, Anet wouldn’t have to do stuff like this. I wish it were different.
The thing is, people still show up later in the time cycle and still get the lion’s share of rewards. I see it in VB and AB. It’s better since April, but it isn’t fixed. We also have Tarir multilooting, which I cannot believe was intended. I’m not saying that the SW issues you cite are trivial, but the solution has not really solved them, and it has also created its own problems. In SW, it’s a lot easier to drop in, participate and have fun, whereas in HoT if your timing is off you might as well not show up. Also, the abomination that is taxiing was less of an issue in SW for the same reasons.
The problem with player driven maps, a problem Anet was trying to get away from, is the problem of people just going from map to map that’s ready to pop, leeching, while a couple of people do the events on those maps, to progress the meta.
The Silverwastes maps are a perfect example. A few people who don’t know sit on a map and play it, until it’s about to pop and then everyone jumps in and cleans up the rewards. People stand around leeching the whole time sometimes, afk and never do anything until it pops. This is a problem for those of us who actually play the game.
That wasn’t working. There were complaints about it. Anet tried something else.
Now, since these events are on a timer, everyone knows when to show up and they show up if they can.
That has obvious issues as well. And now, with the AB loot meta gone crazy, people will do that over and over again, which means other zones don’t get as many people coming to them. 10 maps filled at AB most times and only one map full at TD because why would you ever leave farming AB?
If people wouldn’t exploit or just go for their own personal gain, Anet wouldn’t have to do stuff like this. I wish it were different.
The thing is, people still show up later in the time cycle and still get the lion’s share of rewards. I see it in VB and AB. It’s better since April, but it isn’t fixed. We also have Tarir multilooting, which I cannot believe was intended. I’m not saying that the SW issues you cite are trivial, but the solution has not really solved them, and it has also created its own problems. In SW, it’s a lot easier to drop in, participate and have fun, whereas in HoT if your timing is off you might as well not show up. Also, the abomination that is taxiing was less of an issue in SW for the same reasons.
But everyone is on an even footing. Everyone can show up late, because we have a time. It’s the same time for everyone.
The fact is, if the AB meta weren’t being gamed, it would be very different because if they made it player driven, you could keep getting the same chest over and over, like Silverwastes, which they didn’t want to do.
It’s like that in VB and TD. You can’t really get the same reward over and over.
AB is bugged or it would be like that too.
The part of orr you can’t enter is actually the dungeon of Arah
Welcome to my world – http://emikochan13.wordpress.com
But everyone is on an even footing. Everyone can show up late, because we have a time. It’s the same time for everyone.
So, in other words, nothing prevents a player from showing up 20 minutes into VB night and just doing the bosses, while leaving the day and first part of night to others. How is that different from SW, again?
The fact is, if the AB meta weren’t being gamed, it would be very different because if they made it player driven, you could keep getting the same chest over and over, like Silverwastes, which they didn’t want to do.
It’s like that in VB and TD. You can’t really get the same reward over and over.
So, what. If I do VB multiple times in a day, I can’t harvest nodes with crowbars over and over? Bosses don’t reward drops if done more than once/day? How is that different than SW?
AB is bugged or it would be like that too.
See italics, above.
Has there been an acknowledgement that AB is bugged by ANet? Otherwise, it isn’t.
We may have to agree to value different approaches differently. I prefer SW style content because — unless I show after the VW has been defeated and before the next cycle — I can move things forward no matter who’s in the zone or when I log in. I really don’t care if people show up later just to do the VW. This less possible in VB, even less in AB, and afaics, impossible in TD and DS. In HoT zones, if I show up at the wrong time, or have to use the abomination that is taxiing to have a chance to participate, I tend to just leave because I will be wasting my time.
I abhor timers because I just don’t play as much, or as long, as you seem to, and I really abhor the idea of basing my life around the schedule of events in a bloody game. I much prefer to log in and be able to do rewarding stuff regardless of how many people there are in a zone or when I log in than to have to find the 1 or 2 viable zones and participate in timed bull-crap that sucks the spontaneity out of playing.
The part of orr you can’t enter is actually the dungeon of Arah
I know the dungeon is there, but does it really cover the entirety of what’s left of Orr? The dungeon always felt smaller than a regular Orr map, and there is much more left of Orr than what the first 3 maps reveal.
The part of orr you can’t enter is actually the dungeon of Arah
I know the dungeon is there, but does it really cover the entirety of what’s left of Orr? The dungeon always felt smaller than a regular Orr map, and there is much more left of Orr than what the first 3 maps reveal.
No, it doesn’t: http://guide.thatshaman.com/
But everyone is on an even footing. Everyone can show up late, because we have a time. It’s the same time for everyone.
So, in other words, nothing prevents a player from showing up 20 minutes into VB night and just doing the bosses, while leaving the day and first part of night to others. How is that different from SW, again?
The fact is, if the AB meta weren’t being gamed, it would be very different because if they made it player driven, you could keep getting the same chest over and over, like Silverwastes, which they didn’t want to do.
It’s like that in VB and TD. You can’t really get the same reward over and over.
So, what. If I do VB multiple times in a day, I can’t harvest nodes with crowbars over and over? Bosses don’t reward drops if done more than once/day? How is that different than SW?
AB is bugged or it would be like that too.
See italics, above.
Has there been an acknowledgement that AB is bugged by ANet? Otherwise, it isn’t.
We may have to agree to value different approaches differently. I prefer SW style content because — unless I show after the VW has been defeated and before the next cycle — I can move things forward no matter who’s in the zone or when I log in. I really don’t care if people show up later just to do the VW. This less possible in VB, even less in AB, and afaics, impossible in TD and DS. In HoT zones, if I show up at the wrong time, or have to use the abomination that is taxiing to have a chance to participate, I tend to just leave because I will be wasting my time.
I abhor timers because I just don’t play as much, or as long, as you seem to, and I really abhor the idea of basing my life around the schedule of events in a bloody game. I much prefer to log in and be able to do rewarding stuff regardless of how many people there are in a zone or when I log in than to have to find the 1 or 2 viable zones and participate in timed bull-crap that sucks the spontaneity out of playing.
It’ll be acknowledged when they fix it. There’s no other event in the game where you can do it, so it’s obviously not intended. You might not call it a bug, but I’m relatively sure it’ll be fixed.
I’m guessing they haven’t fixed it because during the draught it keeps people in the game.
The part of orr you can’t enter is actually the dungeon of Arah
I know the dungeon is there, but does it really cover the entirety of what’s left of Orr? The dungeon always felt smaller than a regular Orr map, and there is much more left of Orr than what the first 3 maps reveal.
No, it doesn’t: http://guide.thatshaman.com/
Yea that’s what I thought, plenty of room for a new Orr map that can be set after Zhaitans demise.
The part of orr you can’t enter is actually the dungeon of Arah
I know the dungeon is there, but does it really cover the entirety of what’s left of Orr? The dungeon always felt smaller than a regular Orr map, and there is much more left of Orr than what the first 3 maps reveal.
No, it doesn’t: http://guide.thatshaman.com/
Yea that’s what I thought, plenty of room for a new Orr map that can be set after Zhaitans demise.
Story mode does, but it’s mostly in the sky. However, from what we can tell there, that part of Orr is hardly passable thanks to Zhaitan rising Orr from that portion. That_Shaman’s map doesn’t really show the huge craggy rocks.
But TBH, it could easily be made to be like Verdant Brink, but with a giant dragon corpse in it. Wouldn’t mind it. But I’m not so sure what all there’d be to do beyond explore, unless they keep the risen and corruption around – but then folks would complain that Orr still hasn’t been purified even in the new maps – or if we get Joko’s forces invading through there… but why would he go through there instead of the Desert Gate or Judgement Rock? Tactically unsound.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
The problem with player driven maps, a problem Anet was trying to get away from, is the problem of people just going from map to map that’s ready to pop, leeching, while a couple of people do the events on those maps, to progress the meta.
The Silverwastes maps are a perfect example. A few people who don’t know sit on a map and play it, until it’s about to pop and then everyone jumps in and cleans up the rewards..
While what you say is, no doubt, true. How does this negatively affect your experience of the gameplay in anyway? Why should you care if someone “jumps in a cleans up the rewards” ? And how is this leeching? If the chests were limited in number and “first come first serve”, then you would have a point – but they are not. Anet specifically designed event drops to be available to all. You seem to just want to see others “punished” for not playing as many hours as you do.
I don’t care a bit if someone joins late. I don’t cry over it.
In SW, it’s a lot easier to drop in, participate and have fun, whereas in HoT if your timing is off you might as well not show up. Also, the abomination that is taxiing was less of an issue in SW for the same reasons.
I cite Dragon Stand as further evidence. If you don’t taxi, you have a dead map, period. Even then, you have to show up at just the right time to taxi in. It’s not healthy for that area, which is a huge chunk of HoT’s content.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
The problem with player driven maps, a problem Anet was trying to get away from, is the problem of people just going from map to map that’s ready to pop, leeching, while a couple of people do the events on those maps, to progress the meta.
The Silverwastes maps are a perfect example. A few people who don’t know sit on a map and play it, until it’s about to pop and then everyone jumps in and cleans up the rewards..
While what you say is, no doubt, true. How does this negatively affect your experience of the gameplay in anyway? Why should you care if someone “jumps in a cleans up the rewards” ? And how is this leeching? If the chests were limited in number and “first come first serve”, then you would have a point – but they are not. Anet specifically designed event drops to be available to all. You seem to just want to see others “punished” for not playing as many hours as you do.
I don’t care a bit if someone joins late. I don’t cry over it.
The SW event progresses by finishing events. Someone has to finish them. If every single player in the game did nothing but jump maps there wouldn’t be maps to progress TO.
So some people are essentially doing all the work, while everyone else benefits.
It’s just unfair. They don’t know any better, so they don’t jump around and they end up progressing the meta for people who do know. Not cool in my book.
In SW, it’s a lot easier to drop in, participate and have fun, whereas in HoT if your timing is off you might as well not show up. Also, the abomination that is taxiing was less of an issue in SW for the same reasons.
I cite Dragon Stand as further evidence. If you don’t taxi, you have a dead map, period. Even then, you have to show up at just the right time to taxi in. It’s not healthy for that area, which is a huge chunk of HoT’s content.
It’s true most of the time. Not allt he time, but most. But if you’re not running at prime time you can definitely taxi into maps late, because I have, and I get the job done as well.
Prime time weekends you’d probably get more full maps.
So some people are essentially doing all the work, while everyone else benefits.
It’s just unfair.
But how EXACTLY is it unfair? How EXACTLY does it hinder your advancement/enjoyment of the game, or give someone else a leg-up over you?
If someone gets home from work, and can only spend 30 minutes in the game before fixing dinner for the kids, should he abstain from entering a meta-map mid way to completion in order to avoid offending your definition of right or wrong?
Vayne, what are your now? 32k Points Earned? Still doing 40+ hours a week in the game?
Edit: Let me add: If Anet handed out free Legendaries or Ascended armor it wouldn’t bother me in the slightness. In no way would it prevent me from enjoying the game. You sound like someone who needs others to fail in order for you to feel good about your “success”.
(edited by Soon.5240)
So some people are essentially doing all the work, while everyone else benefits.
It’s just unfair.
But how EXACTLY is it unfair? How EXACTLY does it hinder your advancement/enjoyment of the game, or give someone else a leg-up over you?
If someone gets home from work, and can only spend 30 minutes in the game before fixing dinner for the kids, should he abstain from entering a meta-map mid way to completion in order to avoid offending your definition of right or wrong?
Vayne, what are your now? 32k Points Earned? Still doing 40+ hours a week in the game?
Edit: Let me add: If Anet handed out free Legendaries or Ascended armor it wouldn’t bother me in the slightness. In no way would it prevent me from enjoying the game. You sound like someone who needs others to fail in order for you to feel good about your “success”.
First of all, I’m not talking about me, and pointing out the number of hours a week that I work is completely pointless.
Because there are people who work every day and have little time to play and don’t know how to map hop or that it’s even a thing. And to those people it’s not fair.
Many casual players don’t get on forums. They don’t go to reddit. They barely know the game compared to people who do.
Like many people, you assume when I’m talking about fairness, I’m talking about fairness to me. It’s an unwarranted assumption.
It’s unfair to the people who don’t know better.
I know better.
And off topic: I still have less than 30k points and don’t play as much as I used to. Not that it should matter, since what I said remains true either way.
It’s unfair to the people who don’t know better.
You, yet again, ducked my question. HOW IS IT UNFAIR??????
It’s unfair to the people who don’t know better.
You, yet again, ducked my question. HOW IS IT UNFAIR??????
If someone is doing none of the work but reaping the benefits, well, that’s considered leeching. Even actively participating in some dungeon groups — if you aren’t playing meta — is considered leeching and can result in the alleged leech getting kicked. If people think it’s not fair for one player to reap the benefits while only participating to an extent, how more unfair is it for players to benefit from doing nothing?
Now, that’s not how I think — but I do think that some others think that way.
It’s unfair to the people who don’t know better.
You, yet again, ducked my question. HOW IS IT UNFAIR??????
If someone is doing none of the work but reaping the benefits, well, that’s considered leeching. Even actively participating in some dungeon groups — if you aren’t playing meta — is considered leeching and can result in the alleged leech getting kicked. If people think it’s not fair for one player to reap the benefits while only participating to an extent, how more unfair is it for players to benefit from doing nothing?
Now, that’s not how I think — but I do think that some others think that way.
I’ve explained more than once how it was unfair. I’m not sure how else to explain it. But I think IndigoSundown did a good job of it.
It’s not unfair to people who know how to use LFG and get to a map about to pop. I just wonder what percentage of the game’s population is aware of it.
So some people are essentially doing all the work, while everyone else benefits.
It’s just unfair.
But how EXACTLY is it unfair? How EXACTLY does it hinder your advancement/enjoyment of the game, or give someone else a leg-up over you?
If someone gets home from work, and can only spend 30 minutes in the game before fixing dinner for the kids, should he abstain from entering a meta-map mid way to completion in order to avoid offending your definition of right or wrong?
Vayne, what are your now? 32k Points Earned? Still doing 40+ hours a week in the game?
Edit: Let me add: If Anet handed out free Legendaries or Ascended armor it wouldn’t bother me in the slightness. In no way would it prevent me from enjoying the game. You sound like someone who needs others to fail in order for you to feel good about your “success”.
First of all, I’m not talking about me, and pointing out the number of hours a week that I work is completely pointless.
Because there are people who work every day and have little time to play and don’t know how to map hop or that it’s even a thing. And to those people it’s not fair.
Many casual players don’t get on forums. They don’t go to reddit. They barely know the game compared to people who do.
Like many people, you assume when I’m talking about fairness, I’m talking about fairness to me. It’s an unwarranted assumption.
It’s unfair to the people who don’t know better.
I know better.
And off topic: I still have less than 30k points and don’t play as much as I used to. Not that it should matter, since what I said remains true either way.
On the other hand, those who only map-hop to fight the vinewrath miss out on a BUNCH of events and rewards from them, can miss out on killing Legendary Monsters, and may end up on a poisonmap. And, thanks to the people who do nothing but taxi, players on a map that’s just kinda chugging along (Whether they’re just screwing around for shovels, chests, and crests, or doing map completion, etc) can open a taxi when the Breach/Vinewrath start, and find enough willing players to turn a quiet map that would end up failing into a successful and rewarding one instead. And maybe get a chest train going afterward.
So some people are essentially doing all the work, while everyone else benefits.
It’s just unfair.
But how EXACTLY is it unfair? How EXACTLY does it hinder your advancement/enjoyment of the game, or give someone else a leg-up over you?
If someone gets home from work, and can only spend 30 minutes in the game before fixing dinner for the kids, should he abstain from entering a meta-map mid way to completion in order to avoid offending your definition of right or wrong?
Vayne, what are your now? 32k Points Earned? Still doing 40+ hours a week in the game?
Edit: Let me add: If Anet handed out free Legendaries or Ascended armor it wouldn’t bother me in the slightness. In no way would it prevent me from enjoying the game. You sound like someone who needs others to fail in order for you to feel good about your “success”.
First of all, I’m not talking about me, and pointing out the number of hours a week that I work is completely pointless.
Because there are people who work every day and have little time to play and don’t know how to map hop or that it’s even a thing. And to those people it’s not fair.
Many casual players don’t get on forums. They don’t go to reddit. They barely know the game compared to people who do.
Like many people, you assume when I’m talking about fairness, I’m talking about fairness to me. It’s an unwarranted assumption.
It’s unfair to the people who don’t know better.
I know better.
And off topic: I still have less than 30k points and don’t play as much as I used to. Not that it should matter, since what I said remains true either way.
On the other hand, those who only map-hop to fight the vinewrath miss out on a BUNCH of events and rewards from them, can miss out on killing Legendary Monsters, and may end up on a poisonmap. And, thanks to the people who do nothing but taxi, players on a map that’s just kinda chugging along (Whether they’re just screwing around for shovels, chests, and crests, or doing map completion, etc) can open a taxi when the Breach/Vinewrath start, and find enough willing players to turn a quiet map that would end up failing into a successful and rewarding one instead. And maybe get a chest train going afterward.
None of which addresses my concern. I’m not saying no one will ever taxi people onto a map that’s at 10%, but it’s not that often and it’s not that common. Usually people look for maps that are more than 75% or even 90%, taxi and it get their rewards.
As much as I’d love to believe in the benevolence of most players, game mechanisms are what keep people relatively honest, not some deep desire to do well for humanity.
I tend to help out in Silverwastes if I see someone doing some stuff, because that’s how I’m wired, but believe me when I tell you, there are often only a small number of people wandering around those maps, asking if anyone ever does the Silverwastes anymore.
I can tell those people I run into that they should use LFG to get to a populated map, but every time I go there’s more people just like the first.