Guild Wars 2

Heya !

In order to give feedback and new ideas to developers, I’d like to ask you what you expect and like in boss encounters in general, and not necessarily in GW2.

The worst thing imo is when you have a training puppet attacked by immobile players who just need to avoid major attacks. Current dungeons where people stack in corners is the same thing.

So what I enjoy is when you have special mechanics that demand different skills and actions, and when you have to take risks to inflict high damages. Some bosses in fractals are nice, and triple trouble event migh be the best one currently in terms of challenge and ideas.

Few things I enjoy un boss fights :
- “rage” phase from the boss when you have to be careful and dodge deadly attacks
- jumping puzzles : get higher to jump on the boss’ back and damage him for instance
- phases needing coordination : fractal where you have to drop lava on the ice elemental is a good example
- moving bosses with brutal moves needing quick réactions and making it risky to just stick and use 100blades
- changing arenas : a plateform could be partly destroyed by an attack, the more you wait, the smaller is the plateform, and the harder it gets

I use to play Monster Hunter, and bosses there were challenging, you had to be careful, take care to each one of their moves, you could have other unexpected monsters coming and make it trickier, your actions had direct effects on them (make them angry, tired, etc) etc. I think some good ideas could be taken from this game.

So how would you like to see these special fights ?

That every one works as a team to take it down

Raids are gonna destroy this community if you think dungeons are bad with elites ….

Due to arthritis, I will be excluded from bosses that require platforming-style movement while also fighting, dodging and maintaining situational awareness. I’m in wait-and-see mode on the raid bosses, but suspect we’ll see a lot of that — which would mean that raids are not for me. For me, I’m OK with that, but would prefer to see some raids I could do rather than all raid wings having that style of challenge.

-Chaos. I love it when there isn’t a set routine, or super specific strategy required to beat something. Just make a boss fight chaotic with stuff happening all over the place (Molten Alliance Facility bosses were great).

-Bosses that have both AoE as well as single-target attacks. Gives people time to maybe res a downed teammate, but also prevents a boss from constantly bullying one single player all the time (Gigantics Lupicus minus the constant focus on one player). Also, if the boss is going to focus on a teammember, make it random instead of binding it to a specific stat or whatever.

Valky.2574:

That every one works as a team to take it down

Raids are gonna destroy this community if you think dungeons are bad with elites ….

hyperbole detected. guild wars 2’s community
wasn’t really that good to begin with given the way these forums seem to have been these last few months.

I posted this in another thread but I’ll repost it here

Burst Phase: Straight forward enough deal lots of single target damage
Add Phase: Lots of cleave or AoE damage
Dodge Ground Effects: Use your dodge. . .
Raid Wide Damage: Use small recovery to not dip too low
Spike Damage: Mitigate and Heal

Soak Effects: Rotate players to soak beams / puddles / breathes / etc.
Kite Effects: Use swiftness to kite adds / ground effects / boss / etc.
Corruption: Boss conditions to boons / Player boons to conditions / Player ground effects into damaging effects
Enrage: Have a ‘timer’ built into encounters

Unique UI Elements: Consciousness / shields / toxicity / etc.
Environment Elements: Area damage cover / interactable items / moving platforms / etc.

ANet can do any number of things but the most important thing is how they tie it all together.

Most importantly I just want mobs and bosses to be smarter. Moving out of ground effects, targeting specific players, etc. Closer to the original AI of the game.

I prefer options. True options. Multiple different techniques that will make the fight easier if you do them, without making it impossible if you don’t.

Like while some players are just face-tanking the boss as best they can, other players can run off and activate some secondary element that will significantly shift the battle, but be tricky to accomplish (either via jumping or secondary combat), and if the team doesn’t want to do that thing, then standard combat also works.

Ideally if a raid involves 10 players, it doesn’t just break down into a 10-player zerg, and the content is designed to promote 2-4 sub groups that each have to do specific tasks (and these tasks should be clearly defined by the UI so they don’t need to just guess what they’re meant to be doing).

I like content that provides bundles, little kits of tools specific to that content that presents a new way to play. Players who come in with the tools to handle the boss fight can stick with their own build, but players who’s build lacks those features can use the pre-built kit to remain viable in the content.

I like that if there is a timer for something, it is not a “fail timer,” but rather a “you could do better timer,” tracking how well you’re doing, but not telling you that your best effort was not good enough so you get nothing.

I like when it’s a challenge that can be faced by smaller than the recommended party size. I’ve yet to zerk through any dungeon. We do it 2-3 man and actually have fun working together.

Supporting each other through each boss and knowing “well he doesn’t have condi cleanse so it’s my job to watch for that” and etc.

Finding unique ways that others may not of thought of to get through the fight even if it takes longer.

Stuff like that. If there were ever a mode where me and my team can’t play how we have in every game I doubt I’d touch it. It just wouldn’t be fun. Which is more important than anything.

A challenge, whether it be a small group or a big zerg.

No timers. Please no more fights like teq or wurm where the only way to fail the event is by the timer running out. Don’t get me wrong they aren’t bad fights but if the timers weren’t there neither would be all that challenging(teq before it was nerfed).

^ Agreed. The timers make the two currently challenging world bosses really about a DPS race. I’d like it if the raids took a page from GW1 and made it so that if people die during the fight, they can’t WP and must be ressed manually. This makes it more important both to have players who are dedicated to support roles, as well as having tankier types in the thick of the melee who can survive the big hits that would insta-down squishy zerk types, and can res them up before the boss kills them.

The raid only fails if the boss kills everyone, not because time ran out. (This also gives greater value to things like Revive Orbs that go largely unused except in the toughest dungeons, and only against very specific bosses.)

I semi-agree with Zaxares, but not entirely. For one thing, I don’t like Revive Orbs and don’t want them to become a fixure. To my mind their only use should be exploring alone and getting into trouble, but not wanting to have to lose progress.

I do think that they could do a better job of balancing WPing back vs. keeping everyone up though. They need to design the content so that the downed state is more likely to be survived (ie, less “death pools” that are instantly fatal to non-teleporting classes), giving other players time to rez them, and if not making it impossible to WP, at least make it such a waste that it’s highly preferred to rez people outside of extreme emergencies.

I really do think that is the proper role of the “healer” in GW2, not in trying to keep players from entering downed state, but in making sure that everyone who falls is able to get up. It’s very different from most MMOs, you sort of have to think of downed state as being the bottom 25% of the HP bar in other MMOs.

I want to stack and press 1 all day to get loots.

I think fights like the holographic fight with Scarlet are fun. Not too hard but it requires you to pay attention. If I can stand still and just push one button every 5-10 seconds to keep my auto-attacking rolling, I get bored. I’ve actually fallen asleep at some world bosses…

Raids need to make sure they offer something unique and aren’t just extended dungeons with lots of trash mobs. Timers are lame and make people worry more about damage than overall strategy. Make people move around, make them have to use stun-breakers and stability at the right time.

Honestly, i prefer this game to Wow in every aspect but raiding, that is the 1 thing where GW2 could learn a bit from them. Not talking about the trinity, or armor creep, but actual boss mechanics.

Nothing i’ve played has ever come close to it raid wise. I hope GW2 at least comes close to the level where wow raids are at atm. So i can have this fun experience called raiding in a game that doesn’t suck in every other way.

Plz don’t hate me :p

Dislike:
DPS races against timers
I feel they overly emphasize the damage role in a game that already highly rewards all damage style team compositions. Going heavy DPS and very light support in a party should be a choice, but having a slower clear with a tankier party should always be an equally valid choice.

Encounter mechanics that overly reward certain types of utility
Stuff like reflectable projectile spam without an environmental counter, channeled buttons that overly reward stealth, and other such things that make a certain profession or build drastically better at a certain role than another. I’m all for interesting mechanics like that, but there should be some environmental interactions that would allow you to approach that mechanic in an alternate way.

Like
Phased fights
I feel like boss fights are at their best when the fight ramps up in difficulty as it progresses, adding mechanics at Hp breakpoints. This gives a nice progression to learning the encounters as you slowly “solve” it with your group. Stuff like the mai trin or tequatl fight with distinct phases of evasion, add smashing, and vulnerability phases encourage learning the encounter mechanics.

Encounter Roles
The dredge fractal boss and to a lesser extent tequatl are good examples of this. In stead of slotting people by profession in to roles determined by class, the fights have certain roles which must be filled to succeed. In Teq you need some players to take on the turret defender and turret use roles for the front line combat group to succeed. In the dredge fractal you need to designate a party member to run the lava buckets, etc.

Other good examples are the megadestroyer’s pre-phase or triple trouble, where you need to split off the groups to accomplish objectives which all support one another.

Or the TA aetherpath trap room and final fight, which requires everyone to work together by taking on certain roles (pull, damage, runner, etc.) to succeed.

This style of encounter design is very good for the way GW2’s soft role characters are designed. It means you still have mechanically complex fights that require coordination and teamwork, but the fight doesn’t devolve in to a thing where you simply must bring XYZ classes or builds to have a chance of finishing the encounter. I want the fights to be mechanically challenging, but achievable through skill even if you have a sub-optimal collection of actual classes present. If you can’t complete a raid (although it may be more difficult than with a more meta party) with a full party of all one class with different builds for damage, support, and CC, I feel that the raid isn’t designed well around GW2’s class systems.

Encounter mechanics that overly reward certain types of utility
Stuff like reflectable projectile spam without an environmental counter, channeled buttons that overly reward stealth, and other such things that make a certain profession or build drastically better at a certain role than another. I’m all for interesting mechanics like that, but there should be some environmental interactions that would allow you to approach that mechanic in an alternate way.

I can agree on that. I enjoy things like the Drege Fractal’s button where a Theif can stealth on them, but they should have better options for parties without heavy stealth to also clear that part in a different manner. Having exactly the right abilities should be shortcuts, allowing for the best possible cleartimes, but should not be absolutely necessary.

They should provide either “freebie powers” as needed that can allow a Warrior to stealth or a thief to Reflect if necessary, OR provide a method by which those skills don’t need to be used that is reasonably effective.

Phased fights
I feel like boss fights are at their best when the fight ramps up in difficulty as it progresses, adding mechanics at Hp breakpoints. This gives a nice progression to learning the encounters as you slowly “solve” it with your group. Stuff like the mai trin or tequatl fight with distinct phases of evasion, add smashing, and vulnerability phases encourage learning the encounter mechanics.

True, the “rule of three” is classic for most things, including boss fights. Have one easy round where you learn base mechanics, then a “bridge” round where something interesting happens to shake you out of routine (like a dodge-fest or a burn phase), then a second round that has all the rules of the first only with a new complication, then another bridge, then a final round that is 1+2+more. They’ve been pretty good about maintaining this formula in a lot of their fights, in some variation.

If you can’t complete a raid (although it may be more difficult than with a more meta party) with a full party of all one class with different builds for damage, support, and CC, I feel that the raid isn’t designed well around GW2’s class systems.

Also agreed. The outcome should be determined by how each player plays, not about what build he brings with him. You should never have to advertise that you “need more of X,” or turn anyone away from an unfull party by saying “we already have enough of Y.”

I don’t know if you can really consider them boss fights, but the many skill challenges (now hero challenges or something) where you had to basically fight a mini boss I did find interesting / fun, especially when you were a few levels to low (I am not sure you can still do that under your level after the NPE). Those where always fun fights, they usually required some specific tactics because the boss had some special tricks.. Also dodging on the right moment was important. It was also really a good way to learn your profession.

It was similar to the bosses you did fight in the Liadri challenge. The big bosses like world-bosses are less interesting because you don’t really make a big difference (partly because as lack of roles). Everybody just does damage and eventually the boss will go down. I do hope the raid bosses do really require every person to do his task so it does feel more like your contribution really matters. In dungeons now you really only have that feeling when you are the last man standing and you need to help everybody up.

I’m less of a fan of single boss encounters.

I prefer a fight, such as a defense event, whereby you are assaulted and flanked by multiple enemies. I enjoy the different management each wave, or type of foe requires and I think that such a fight, in place of a “big bad boss fight” could be diverse enough to really give each party member a well defined role. I’m skeptical as to whether a single boss encounter really can achieve that; maybe I’ll be proved wrong.

With the small betas we’ve had access to in HoT so far I’ve already seem potential for foes to be substantially more brutal, and enough of a threat in large numbers to be challenging for a group of players to fight against. The closest thing we have to this so far, I reckon, is in the Dredge Fractal.

It’d be interesting to see some “challenging group content” that would not see you fighting a boss, but instead a hardmode defense event consisting of waves of Mordrem, and creatures under Mordrem control. Zerging works well for players versus the content, in order to make the content trivial…I’d like to see this reversed, and start seeing the content zerging the players.

Milennin.4825:

-Chaos. I love it when there isn’t a set routine, or super specific strategy required to beat something. Just make a boss fight chaotic with stuff happening all over the place (Molten Alliance Facility bosses were great).

-Bosses that have both AoE as well as single-target attacks. Gives people time to maybe res a downed teammate, but also prevents a boss from constantly bullying one single player all the time (Gigantics Lupicus minus the constant focus on one player). Also, if the boss is going to focus on a teammember, make it random instead of binding it to a specific stat or whatever.

So basically good AI that also has a lot of random action worked into it.

I totally agree, this would require skill instead of knowledge, and skill should always be more important than knowledge because knowledge simply becomes a trick when everybody knows he the mechanism works.

With the small betas we’ve had access to in HoT so far I’ve already seem potential for foes to be substantially more brutal, and enough of a threat in large numbers to be challenging for a group of players to fight against. The closest thing we have to this so far, I reckon, is in the Dredge Fractal.

That reminds me of one thing I don’t like, fights that outlive their fun. A lot of the Pale Raider events were like this, with a somewhat interesting mechanic, but they just lasted way longer than they were at all interesting. Keep it short and sweet. Give players long enough to learn the necessary tactics if they don’t know them, and then show that they’ve learned them (with the opportunity for failure/setbacks if they don’t), but then move on to something else, don’t just keep having players jump through the same hoops, wave after wave for ten-fifteen minutes without any variety.

It’d be interesting to see some “challenging group content” that would not see you fighting a boss, but instead a hardmode defense event consisting of waves of Mordrem, and creatures under Mordrem control. Zerging works well for players versus the content, in order to make the content trivial…I’d like to see this reversed, and start seeing the content zerging the players.

The Marionette and Vinewrath lanes fit this pattern in various ways, and I think it’s a fine play style. There are elements of it in other dungeons and fractals as well.

Movement, multiple phases, feeling when everyone is low on HP, off-role stuff (i.e. DPS helping the healers heal or tank a bit if situation gets dire), multi-tasking (you’re responsible for couple things and your team depends on your success), healing buddies, bosses that are chaotic, a little unpredictable and often switch targets so nobody feels cozy and safe.

Ohoni.6057:

It’d be interesting to see some “challenging group content” that would not see you fighting a boss, but instead a hardmode defense event consisting of waves of Mordrem, and creatures under Mordrem control. Zerging works well for players versus the content, in order to make the content trivial…I’d like to see this reversed, and start seeing the content zerging the players.

The Marionette and Vinewrath lanes fit this pattern in various ways, and I think it’s a fine play style. There are elements of it in other dungeons and fractals as well.

The Marionette and Vinewrath are… ok… but very easy. I’m thinking more in a five/ten man instance where the content can be controlled enough to be difficult.

I had forgotten about Path 3 of CoF, where you have to hold an area against the Flame Legion. I think this section sort of replaces a boss fight and it’s almost the kind of thing I hope to see more of. Take your eye of the ball, and you could get swamped. Swamped by reasonably easy foes who are all running out of your AoE, trying to keep their distance from your melee, heal each other up and control you. As a player you need to be aware of which monsters are still in play and what they can do, not to mention where new foes might begin joining the fight.

The management of a fight like that is far more interesting to me than one boss encounter.

I’m not sure where to post this but this thread seems the best candidate. To answer the thread itself, I like needing to coordinate and having each person have something important to do. It needn’t be hair-thin reaction reflex to be fun for me, but I want it to matter that I was in the right place at the right time doing the right thing. Bonus if it’s more than just learning the steps of the dance and doing it exactly the same every time.

Now as to what I wanted to mention: There is a PCGamer article on Raids. It doesn’t say much more than Colin’s announcement did, but it has a screenshot of a fight with the flamethrower woman.
http://www.pcgamer.com/raids-are-coming-to-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns/

She is HUGE.

I understand the gameplay reasons for that but I really, truly hope there’s an in-game reason for it beyond “you guys need to be able to see the boss.” She looks like an Engineer, maybe she chugs a growth elixir right before the fight and grows before our eyes? In fact, maybe the elixir unhinges her and that’s why she berserkly attacks the nice ten people talking to her?

Big plant beasts, fine. Giant spiders, I’ll ignore the physics of it. But humans (or even norns) just don’t get that big in Tyria, so it’s rather jarring to see it in that screenshot.

I like her, she looks super classy.

Maybe she likes to come visit my lab at rata sum after the raid :P

The best boss fights require several roles and have mechanics that make certain professions really shine.

Not every profession needs to be really needed for every fight, but having at least a few mechanics as critical to success is awesome. Maybe you need some reflects. Maybe you need some blinds for adds. Maybe you need someone with great mobility to get to objectives. Maybe you need some great CC. You get the picture.

My favorite boss fights were challenging and dynamic, but also made me proud to play the profession/role I play.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Due to arthritis, I will be excluded from bosses that require platforming-style movement while also fighting, dodging and maintaining situational awareness. I’m in wait-and-see mode on the raid bosses, but suspect we’ll see a lot of that — which would mean that raids are not for me. For me, I’m OK with that, but would prefer to see some raids I could do rather than all raid wings having that style of challenge.

I ask your forgiveness up in front for writing this, IndigoSundown, but I would indeed lobby for a social spot in raids where the disabled, sick, old and very young can contribute to the success despite of not having the reflexes needed for such raids in general. I can not imagine how painful arthritis really is, but I have seen enough people suffering from it to know that it is very painful. Maybe a spot where you can turn something on and off with little hand/eye coordination or whatever, or act like a sentry or something like that.

My main reason to dislike Raids is indeed that some groups of people are excluded by default if there are no social spots, despite some people vehemently refusing to acknowledge this. I hope you guys stay at least up when you sit in the bus and a painwracked older person or generally disabled individual steps into the bus too.^^

The LOOT !

/15chars

I want a boss where all-asuran-engi-golem strategy will be a thing :P