Guild Wars 2

There has been much speculation on the weapons that will be gained by Specializations, but they lose things from the main profession as well, and that has received much less discussion.

What weapons do you think they will lose? Utilities? Elite? Let’s talk about it.

I’ll start with the Ranger.

We know two things about the Ranger. It will gain Staff usage and it will be a Druid.

Druid implies an emphasis on Nature Magic and survival. Therefore, I think that Spirits, Survival Skills, and Traps are likely to remain in the Druid’s repertoire. The current Ranger seems more Beast-oriented, and most Rangers will likely not mind parting with their Shouts, whereas a Druid will likely, as I see it, gain utilities that allow them to draw power from their pet. Heal as One and Rampage as One will likely remain exclusive to the Ranger in exchange for a new Healing Skill and Elite on the Druid.

Knowing that Druid’s will get Staves will make their weapon section an easier guess. We do not know if Anet intends on symmetry with exchanges (a two hand for a two hand, a main hand for a main hand, etc.), but, regardless, I think that the Longbow is perhaps the most likely candidate for cutting, as it is iconic to the main Ranger and has much weaker nature connotations than the skill designs utilized by the Shortbow, Sword, Torch, Dagger, and Axe. Greatsword, on the other hand, could also be the weapon on the chopping block. Part of this is an assumption on my part that the main damage type of the Staff (and likely much of the Druid) will be condition damage, whereas buffs to GS and Longbow have popularized Power Rangers.

We don’t even know the extent of what they lose at this point. Its all just people guessing they’ll lose weapons, traits, whatever. They could lose all of that, part of it, very little, we don’t know anything specifikittenil we have a little more to actually go on, I don’t really think I can make anything beyond very broad guesses.

That said, as far as broad guesses go….

Druid – Traps seem the least nature-oriented to me as I assume they’re mechanical in nature rather than magical, so I could see some trap related abilities getting swapped.

Engineer – If they become more tech and gadget oriented, I can see them losing some of the Alchemy aspects of the profession

Mesmer – This one is kind of tough, as none of the Mesmer’s current abilities (sans Time Warp and maybe other teleports) seem particularly time-related at all, so basically anything could go besides Glamours. I suppose maybe Mantras could be the most likely to go since they themselves are sort of require a lot of time to set up which would run contrary to time manipulation?

I really hope that it isn’t an exchange of 2H to 2H etc. (if they lose a weapon at all), because the GS on Necro would have to be over-kittening-powerful to bring an incentive to use it AND compensate for losing the Staff, which is the only 1200 range option a necro has. So maybe losing dagger would be the way to go here – one melee power option against another melee power option. My prediction of what heal, utilities, elite they’ll lose, its actually quite simple with the necro: make him lose all pets. #1 pets are so broken they aren’t really that useful. #2 Wells are (if untraited) cast on the Necros location, synergizing with GS (Since Marjory uses the GS as a melee-option i really doubt we Necros will go the Mesmer-way). #3 Spectral skills help getting enemies in your face (Spectral Grasp), enhance mobility (spectral walk), have an effect when you are being hit (Spectral Armor) and give you protection (spectral wall), again synergizing well with a melee-theme. And #4, well, signets are signets. So losing the minions is the most propable thing to happen.

Lol if they touch wells in a any way at all for greatsword necro it’ll be such a let down for anyone zergbusting/gvging

If Warriors are becoming ranged fighters, I can see them losing banners and Physicals.

There’s no actual need for the new specs to lose any weapons. The fact that the devs didn’t explictly say they would makes me think they won’t. Not guaranteed but that’s what I’m inclined to think at this point.

The “need to lose” stuff comes from a very simple cause: the specializations NEED to not be more powerful than the base class and that includes the power of choice. The simplest, most easily iterated solution that meets the need on every level is for them to lose exactly what they gain in each category – a new trait line at the cost of an old one. A new heal skill at the cost of an old one. A new type of utilities at the cost of an old one. A new elite at the cost of an old one. And a new weapon at the cost of an old one.

Its just plain more useable from a designer perspective to establish and work within a coherent framework.

They may chose to do otherwise, but doing so just makes more work for themselves and inconsistency in specialization structure are just going to magnify ill-will and accusations (some very plausible…) of favoritism towards certain classes by the designers.

Nike.2631:

The “need to lose” stuff comes from a very simple cause: the specializations NEED to not be more powerful than the base class and that includes the power of choice.

Then engineers would need to lose a few kits and have cooldowns applied to them and warriors need to lose about half a dozen weapons and elementalists… I wouldn’t even know where to start. Otherwise by your standards there is massive power imbalance between classes.

Seriously, specs getting one extra weapon wouldn’t be a big deal. Would anyone really not play the base profession JUST because it has one less weapon set to choose from? You can only equip so many at a time anyway. It’s a non-issue.

People would play the base profession regardless if that happened to suit their current mood, preferences, needs etc.

Shiki.7148:

I really hope that it isn’t an exchange of 2H to 2H etc. (if they lose a weapon at all), because the GS on Necro would have to be over-kittening-powerful to bring an incentive to use it AND compensate for losing the Staff, which is the only 1200 range option a necro has. So maybe losing dagger would be the way to go here – one melee power option against another melee power option. My prediction of what heal, utilities, elite they’ll lose, its actually quite simple with the necro: make him lose all pets. #1 pets are so broken they aren’t really that useful. #2 Wells are (if untraited) cast on the Necros location, synergizing with GS (Since Marjory uses the GS as a melee-option i really doubt we Necros will go the Mesmer-way). #3 Spectral skills help getting enemies in your face (Spectral Grasp), enhance mobility (spectral walk), have an effect when you are being hit (Spectral Armor) and give you protection (spectral wall), again synergizing well with a melee-theme. And #4, well, signets are signets. So losing the minions is the most propable thing to happen.

That is assuming the great sword is not a ranged weapon ala mesmer style.

Personally me & allot of people I know really hope the greatsword will be a good offensive ranged power weapon.

Caeledh.5437:

Then engineers would need to lose a few kits and have cooldowns applied to them and warriors need to lose about half a dozen weapons and elementalists… I wouldn’t even know where to start. Otherwise by your standards there is massive power imbalance between classes.

Huh. I didn’t think I’d actually need to say “assuming they feel the classes as they exist now are tolerably balanced compared to each other.” Because that’s kinda how the game exists today. With them having different numbers of weapons and everything. So, not by my standards, but by the only standards that matter (the Devs’) the base state is acceptable and gain one/lose one would be a uniform transformation from that.

since they specifically mentioned that specializations will most likely bring in new class mechanics, my guess is that the first specializations will probably replace the 5th trait line for each class. ie, ranger Druid trait line will replace beastmaster trait line. if true, that would also mean that the utilities buffed by beastmaster traits will probably also be replaced.

another example would be that the elementalist specialization will probably replace the arcana trait line, which would also mean that the elemenatalist would lose the arcane skills if s/he wanted to specialize.

just my 2 coppers.

I’ve already say it, I think specialization’s feature will be restrained to the use af the weapon added. So that you will be specialized in the use of a weapon which will grant you some real qualitie of life regarding some utilities (I’m rooting for a staff wielding equiped spirit passive effect for ranger). When switching weapon you lose the value of your specialization. This way, i really think things would be really easy to balance (without tons of new trait/mechanism/utilities).

I wonder how they want to remove specific utility skill types upon specialization. Often these have traits linked to this skill type spread across various trait lines, so they’d have to rework traits to some extend as well or be left with literally useless traits.

This whole specialization thing is just so vague right now, I hope we get some clarification on it soon.

I just hope they don’t remove the attunement-system from the elementalist.
It is what makes the class so interesting to play.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Shiki.7148:

I really hope that it isn’t an exchange of 2H to 2H etc. (if they lose a weapon at all), because the GS on Necro would have to be over-kittening-powerful to bring an incentive to use it AND compensate for losing the Staff, which is the only 1200 range option a necro has. So maybe losing dagger would be the way to go here – one melee power option against another melee power option. My prediction of what heal, utilities, elite they’ll lose, its actually quite simple with the necro: make him lose all pets. #1 pets are so broken they aren’t really that useful. #2 Wells are (if untraited) cast on the Necros location, synergizing with GS (Since Marjory uses the GS as a melee-option i really doubt we Necros will go the Mesmer-way). #3 Spectral skills help getting enemies in your face (Spectral Grasp), enhance mobility (spectral walk), have an effect when you are being hit (Spectral Armor) and give you protection (spectral wall), again synergizing well with a melee-theme. And #4, well, signets are signets. So losing the minions is the most propable thing to happen.

That is assuming the great sword is not a ranged weapon ala mesmer style.

Personally me & allot of people I know really hope the greatsword will be a good offensive ranged power weapon.

Let me mark that for you in bold . I considered it, then dismissed it because we HAVE an actual Necromancer NPC already using a GS, Marjory. So i based that post around that fact. And, if Necros do get a Mesmer-Like GS, not only would it be lame, but it would also mean still being kittenpoor in PvE. Also, I’d like to mention that dagger is, in fact, our ONLY melee-option to date (and even on dagger, 1 is the only kitten melee skill). Staff, Axe and Scepter (And DS) are ranged, as are the offhand-weapons, yet most base-forms of our utilities (without traiting them) except minions feel like they’d be way better suited for melee, as already explained.+

I expect the spec to lose one trait line, which will be replaced by the spec line, and one utility line directly related to that trait line. I don’t expect the spec to lose a weapon, nor a heal/elite. There are already too few of those to be removing any of them for any reason.

Well just look at this this way. You will specialize yourself in one aspect of the base classe, making it better. This way, you will need restriction to avoid overpowering the specialization. It’s like what we got in real life, exemple : doctor. A doctor may be a generalist, a surgeon, a knynestesist… etc. They may use the same tools but they will really shine while using their own specialized tools.

The best way is to tied the effect of the specialization to the tools that will make this specialization shine. Which mean that the Druid spec will depend of the staff to be effective. But this also mean that when you got an off hand you will still be able to use basic tools for your main hand (exemple shield for mesmer will be usable with scepter and sword, allowing a smooth weapon switch where it will be harder for the profession that get 2 hand weapon).

I think that doing this keep the core profession, avoid messing with traits and give a new meaning to some utilities/trait worth a “specialization”.

Since I think anet devs do not like necros and can’t alter/fix the class to address horrendous trait/synergy problems I imaging they will just slap a great sword on them and give them some weak and chinsey skills that will simply continue our limited existen e in both pvp and pve. Ok we are ok in a zergs due to wells and ok in 1 on 1’s but we are limited in all aspects. Face it, necros are the kitten red headed stepchild of gw2 classes and the necro community feedback was only taken to create the rev instead of fix or improve our class

I imagine specs would have their “core mechanic” trait line replaced with one related to the spec (e.g. trickery for thief, arcane for ele, etc.) and all trait effects in other lines related to a lost mechanic will be updated to be more universal (e.g. if thief loses steal, mug is updated to add its effects to the replacement mechanic as well)

I’d also assume that for each utility granted, a non-synergetic utility, or a utility that would cause massive balance problems is removed.

I’d also assume that one or more weapons are lost in the process, if those weapons would be problematic for balance. (E.G. if rifle is a balance problem with the new engi spec, they’d lose rifle when speccing that way in return for hammer, and pistol/shield would remain the same.)

This is the closest to how secondary classes worked in GW1, and specializations are essentially the GW2 replacement for the secondary class mechanic. What is lost cuts off some option while replacing them with an equal number of new options, though certain builds could be played in either spec, differing only by some low level passive mechanics (stat points in GW1, traits in GW2)

Gryph.8237:

Since I think anet devs do not like necros and can’t alter/fix the class to address horrendous trait/synergy problems I imaging they will just slap a great sword on them and give them some weak and chinsey skills that will simply continue our limited existen e in both pvp and pve. Ok we are ok in a zergs due to wells and ok in 1 on 1’s but we are limited in all aspects. Face it, necros are the kitten red headed stepchild of gw2 classes and the necro community feedback was only taken to create the rev instead of fix or improve our class

You should watch some of Hollts videos on youtube, he owns people 1 vs 2 “easily” with a Condi Necro/Terrormancer. And while he displays awesome skill imho, it still shows Necro is actually pretty good in PvP. Another reason why GS needs to be a PvE-Weapon. But well, let’s see how it turns out, and i really doubt the Revenant will be the only thing in the Demo at PAX East…at least i really hope it isn’t.

I believe specializations just give more choice. It’s just a way to add new things, including a new profession mechanic and weapon, but instead of just slapping on new skills that seem random, they actually have a certain theme to them.

Judging from how things work already, I have 3 things I am certain about (using Druid / Ranger as example):

1) The ranger base class does not lose anything, only replacements, in terms of profession mechanic. Based on what we saw, you still keep the pet, so I’m guessing something that is not the core of the class will be swappable.

For example, Warrior’s Adrenaline, Necromancer’s Life Force, Mesmer’s Clones, Thieve’s Intiative. These kinds of resource things will stay. Engineer Toolbelt, Ranger Swap Pet, Warrior’s Burst Skill, these things could be changed or swapped out. Maybe Engineer loses their toolbelt and gets something based on their weapon / elite instead? Maybe Warrior gets a different kind of F1 mechanic.

2) Traits and stuff will stay the same. You cannot take them all, and some are completely useless (taking scepter traits when you do not use one). I assume it will work the same.

3) You can use your old weapons. Which, again, go back to #1 and #2.

Since we are getting only 1 specialization at HoT launch, specializations will look like upgrades but honestly anything that allows more options to an existing pool of choices is an upgrade. As we get more and more specializations only our options merely grow.

They said they were like 2nd classes, and they should be treated kitten. You are still a ranger, it’s just that you have access to Druid / Beastmaster / Skirmisher / whatever they release and so on (the rest after Druid I made up for examples sake).