What happens to Orr?

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Orimidu.9604

Orimidu.9604

With Zhaitan gone and it being at least a year after his death, what will happen to the current Orr region once HoT comes out? Most of the Risen should be gone. I have some proposals:

Proposal 1: Allow players who have defeated Zhaitan to choose between entering “Uncleansed Orr” and “Cleansed Orr”. This will allow players to continue existing temple meta events and also retain the current map and scripts.

Proposal 2: Cleansed Orr Map

In the new Orr, some vegetation has returned, as well as moss, fungi, and other plant life that grows in a saltwater-soil covered land. The Pact has outposts and the races of Tyria have all dedicated a small amount of resources to preventing Orr from being taken over by Corsair ships, small bands of Risen left over from Zhaitan, as well as new enemies. However, because of Mordremoth, there isn’t as much defense as there could be, and new meta events count on players to keep the outposts and temples safe.

This would be a good opportunity to tease the Deep Sea Dragon’s minions. With Zhaitan’s territorial influence gone, the DSD is now free to send scouts ashore without fear of meddling in another dragon’s affairs. Orr is still a very central place for magic, and the DSD would definitely be interested in taking over an old dragon’s nest.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Roxhemar.6039

Roxhemar.6039

Not gonna happen, HOT, focuses on the threat of Mordremoth, plus ANET won’t divide their creative team just to expend resources making a whole edited map. They’ll spend those resources on The Heart of Maguuma making it as least boring and awful as possible.

Maybe, some time we’ll return to Orr but not anytime soon.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ralanost.8913

Ralanost.8913

I hate when MMORPGs mess with old content to keep it up with the current story. It messes with the old story. Like going through the personal story on a new character and Lion’s Arch is wrecked before Scarlet ever showed up. It’s stupid and inconsistent. Just leave it alone and make new content. Leave old content alone.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Argon.1563

Argon.1563

They have a lore reason to keep it the way it is – Apparantly, the “cleaning of Orr” isn’t instantaneous, its a process that takes a long period of time, and Zhaitan’s forces didn’t immediately dissipate upon his death, explaining why his minions still live.

Realistically, it could take decades for Orr to cleanse itself. I think Orr will just be left as it is, with the backstory narrative of “Its slowly cleansing itself”. Considering GW2 could potentially last for decades, its all covered. If anything ever happens to GW2, and we go to a GW3, then if ArenaNet makes a time gap between the two games, THEN Orr will be cleansed, but right now, they have a valid lore reason to leave it the way it is in GW2.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: ProtoGunner.4953

ProtoGunner.4953

I always asked this in WoW; why would killing this boss and that blabla keep the area as it is? Just a problem we have in MMOs. Live with it.

‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ralanost.8913

Ralanost.8913

I always asked this in WoW; why would killing this boss and that blabla keep the area as it is? Just a problem we have in MMOs. Live with it.

Frankly, they should keep all content as it is and put phases in for new content if they must. Cataclysm ruined the old world in more ways than one. I absolutely hate what it did. Last thing I want to see is a revamp like that in any other game and have it similarly ruin so much content.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Jelle.2807

Jelle.2807

Something I thought would be a cool plot development is if the pale tree faded for good and Caledon forest and The Grove were to be completely taken over by the new Mordremoth’s court (I mean it’s always been the goal of the nightmare court, suddenly they have the means).
The remaining non corrupted sylvari make an exodus to Orr (since the sylvari and the wyld hunt to cleanse orr were prominant) where a new pale tree sapling is growing the place where caladbolg cleansed the source.

It would tie up some plot elements nicely, and we get to see an Orr return to its former beauty under tending of the remaining sylvari.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Diovid.9506

Diovid.9506

Something I thought would be a cool plot development is if the pale tree faded for good and Caledon forest and The Grove were to be completely taken over by the new Mordremoth’s court (I mean it’s always been the goal of the nightmare court, suddenly they have the means).

I don’t know about that. The nightmare court seem to favor individuality and freedom above all else so I’m not sure if they would welcome Modremoth as their dictator. In addition, I thought the nightmare court was just as anti-dragon as the rest of the sylvari? Besides, it was always their goal to change the Pale Tree, not to destroy it.

People are so quick to assume that nightmare = modremoth’s corruption. Yet Scarlet and Aerin were soundless. I remain unconvinced that the nightmare court will be in cahoots with Mord.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: MaXi.3642

MaXi.3642

I always asked this in WoW; why would killing this boss and that blabla keep the area as it is? Just a problem we have in MMOs. Live with it.

Frankly, they should keep all content as it is and put phases in for new content if they must. Cataclysm ruined the old world in more ways than one. I absolutely hate what it did. Last thing I want to see is a revamp like that in any other game and have it similarly ruin so much content.

WoW isn’t so story driven in a personal way like GW2, they could change the world, but if they would do the same in GW2, many story instances and parts of the world just wouldn’t make sense… so they have a reason to keep everything as it is or at least do it with phases as you say…

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Daywolf.2630

Daywolf.2630

or #3 make Orr 3x more challenging but generally don’t change the theme. Make temples about impossible to defend, but 2x more challenging to invade (like it once was). Generally, put it back to early launch state before it was noobified and kittenized. Would be epic..

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Boro.7359

Boro.7359

or #3 make Orr 3x more challenging but generally don’t change the theme. Make temples about impossible to defend, but 2x more challenging to invade (like it once was). Generally, put it back to early launch state before it was noobified and kittenized. Would be epic..

/support, although something needs to be done with the scaling. when going for balthazar temple, and the mobs don’t die immediately, pact morale sinks faster than a haftless axehead. Oh, and rewards should be appropriate

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Agyaggalamb.4796

Agyaggalamb.4796

I don’t want to be off topic but this suggestion and some answers made me think. I’m also not a fan of changing old content, but it still bugs me that we have been teased with the cleansing of Orr, yet after defeating Zhaitan, Orr is still frozen in time as most other parts of the game. Yet we had very cool TEMPORARY content during S1 (I admit, I missed most of it, as I could not keep up with it every two weeks, shame on me).

I wish they just built everything with a “here to stay” vision in their minds.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

What will happen to Orr? Nothing. It will get conveniently forgotten. Devs already mentioned that the future LS will be for HoT only, and outside of LS any major changes to Orr areas could happen only in an expansion. And i don’t see them doing any expac centered around Orr anytime soon.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Rebound.3409

Rebound.3409

ANet is good at “patching stuff in” not fixing. They won’t do that regardless of how cool it would be because it’s above the limitations. Limitations of what..you choose what.

Look for example at the new map events or even HoT method of removing hearts and replacing them with the new system.

How much are you willing to bet that they won’t remove the old system from the old maps (hearts) and replace them with the new system? As i said..they just patch in without looking back and make the necessary modifications in order to bring the rest of the game to the same standard as the new addons (in this example HoT).

The same can be said about random events that happen..and world bosses. You will never see old-style bosses be as interesting as a marionette-style boss (maguuma wastes). Best case scenario they will triple the HP of the boss and say it’s difficult.

What you see now is what you will see years from now. What they add will never change what they did in the past.

(edited by Rebound.3409)

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Red Jay.2516

Red Jay.2516

There is still more than half of Orr unexplored. Why not leave the existing areas as they are and instead introduce a new area east of Cursed Shore, that would have fewer risen foes and more signs of restoration? It could be tied to Palawa Joko/Kralkatorrik conflict as well story-wise.

That way new players would still be able to enjoy the existing content, and those who had beaten the main story would see some further development.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Rin.1046

Rin.1046

The problem is the personal story. They wanted to create a living world but shot themselves in the foot by creating the personal story. If there was no personal story, and instead an ongoing living story (that players can join in on at any time or purchase for the sake of learning what happened), then it wouldn’t matter how much they changed the world around us.

As much as I liked the personal story concept, I have always felt it scuppered the potential of a truly living world.

Simplicity is complex.

Good feedback is key to getting the developers to listen to you.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Jayden Ennok.3687

Jayden Ennok.3687

Don’t touch Orr, the map is awesome and perfectly fits the story behind it. You can’t have grass and flowers so soon after the soil was soaked with dragon influence. The place will be dead for long time.

On other hand, the map feels dead not only it its atmosphere but also the events, I’d really like if they would add more events happening around.

Someone mentioned sending the “good” sylvari there to cleanse Orr, sounds pretty cool, let the veg do the dirty job (good way to introduce some new events to the area).

Underworld Vabbi 1.5yr

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Jinesis.3782

Jinesis.3782

No, please keep it as it is.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Rebound.3409

Rebound.3409

@Jayden Orr as stated ingame should be healing itself. Actually all undead there should have dissapeared together with the death of the one who made them Zhaitan…that is also stated ingame both text and several cutscenes.

Who says if you get rid of undead you can’t create something else. As the OP said it could be like an option to go to new orr or old orr. That map has potential and would be awesome if it’s revitalized…bringing back some of the old orr architecture…see growth coming back to total distruction…etc. I would actually play that.

It’s all down to how limited and/or lazy the devs are. I prefer paying gems for something like this rather then ugly/useless pets/cosmetics and whatever they seem to be putting most of their effort in. Content over skins.

(edited by Rebound.3409)

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

I always asked this in WoW; why would killing this boss and that blabla keep the area as it is? Just a problem we have in MMOs. Live with it.

Frankly, they should keep all content as it is and put phases in for new content if they must. Cataclysm ruined the old world in more ways than one. I absolutely hate what it did. Last thing I want to see is a revamp like that in any other game and have it similarly ruin so much content.

I used to like the phased approach. It allowed story progression in a zone, and you saw visible changes.

I liked it until I wanted to play with a lower-level player, like a friend or my brother, and couldn’t even be seen. I’ve since changed my opinion on phasing. :\

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Orimidu.9604

Orimidu.9604

All good points. Thanks for the input, guys. I think at the MINIMUM, they could add some new conversation dialogue between NPCs in the outposts. Something that starts with “With Zhaitan gone, what happens now?” and the conversations providing extra lore to the ongoing Orr events. It would be rather simple for ANet to record some conversations and slap them in a patch—the only trigger to activate them would be completion of Victory or Death.

Ideally, some new events to reflect the passage of time would go in. But this will likely not happen.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ralanost.8913

Ralanost.8913

I always asked this in WoW; why would killing this boss and that blabla keep the area as it is? Just a problem we have in MMOs. Live with it.

Frankly, they should keep all content as it is and put phases in for new content if they must. Cataclysm ruined the old world in more ways than one. I absolutely hate what it did. Last thing I want to see is a revamp like that in any other game and have it similarly ruin so much content.

I used to like the phased approach. It allowed story progression in a zone, and you saw visible changes.

I liked it until I wanted to play with a lower-level player, like a friend or my brother, and couldn’t even be seen. I’ve since changed my opinion on phasing. :\

The problem with Blizzard phasing is the lack of player options. You should be able to group with someone and then choose whose phase you are a part of. Phasing is fine, it just needs fine tuning.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

All good points. Thanks for the input, guys. I think at the MINIMUM, they could add some new conversation dialogue between NPCs in the outposts. Something that starts with “With Zhaitan gone, what happens now?” and the conversations providing extra lore to the ongoing Orr events. It would be rather simple for ANet to record some conversations and slap them in a patch—the only trigger to activate them would be completion of Victory or Death.

Ideally, some new events to reflect the passage of time would go in. But this will likely not happen.

The problem is, Zhaitan isn’t gone for new players. They’d have to at least phase that dialogue. Is the amount of work it would take to accomplish that really worth Anet’s time?

I’m thinking it won’t happen because time right now is budgeted to the expansion and getting that ready. MMOs are almost always better off moving forward than changing what they have.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: dietzero.3514

dietzero.3514

I hate when MMORPGs mess with old content to keep it up with the current story. It messes with the old story. Like going through the personal story on a new character and Lion’s Arch is wrecked before Scarlet ever showed up. It’s stupid and inconsistent. Just leave it alone and make new content. Leave old content alone.

BOR-ING!

It is supposed to be a living story.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Jayden Ennok.3687

Jayden Ennok.3687

@Jayden Orr as stated ingame should be healing itself. Actually all undead there should have dissapeared together with the death of the one who made them Zhaitan…that is also stated ingame both text and several cutscenes.

Who says if you get rid of undead you can’t create something else. As the OP said it could be like an option to go to new orr or old orr. That map has potential and would be awesome if it’s revitalized…bringing back some of the old orr architecture…see growth coming back to total distruction…etc. I would actually play that.

It’s all down to how limited and/or lazy the devs are. I prefer paying gems for something like this rather then ugly/useless pets/cosmetics and whatever they seem to be putting most of their effort in. Content over skins.

And that’s where players’ views on this divide, I like how Orr looks like and I wish that whatever progress, if any, the devs will bring to the area will have minimum impact on its looks. I’d add more dirt, blood and pain to any map :P

Underworld Vabbi 1.5yr

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ralanost.8913

Ralanost.8913

I hate when MMORPGs mess with old content to keep it up with the current story. It messes with the old story. Like going through the personal story on a new character and Lion’s Arch is wrecked before Scarlet ever showed up. It’s stupid and inconsistent. Just leave it alone and make new content. Leave old content alone.

BOR-ING!

It is supposed to be a living story.

Haven’t you noticed that the living story is mostly instanced in chapters? It largely doesn’t affect the main world after season one. It creates problems. Call it boring all you want, but it isn’t sustainable. At least with the current infrastructure.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Rin.1046

Rin.1046

Haven’t you noticed that the living story is mostly instanced in chapters? It largely doesn’t affect the main world after season one. It creates problems. Call it boring all you want, but it isn’t sustainable. At least with the current infrastructure.

I personally think that the way LS 1 & 2 were done, or an improvement thereof, is how the personal story should have been done.

I would love to see the world change around us, with an always changing personal story (like the living story instances) that follows what is currently going on in the world. Your personal story would be updated with how you participated in ongoing world events, and THAT would be your journey. That way, any part of the world can change without it effecting some static personal story. Your personal story would be ongoing.

Of course, if you do not log in often, your story might jump and skip parts, but then you could buy/aquire (in game) missed episodes to fill in any gaps.

My hope is that one day Anet will be able to package up LS1 AND the personal story episodes like they did with LS2, so that they can make changes to the world without fear of anything breaking. If it was made clear to the players that they are replaying historical events, kind of like they did in GW1 with the bonus mission pack, I think it would allow them to seperate the old (current) personal story from the main game world, freeing them up to make any zone changes they liked.

Simplicity is complex.

Good feedback is key to getting the developers to listen to you.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Test.8734

Test.8734

I hate when MMORPGs mess with old content to keep it up with the current story. It messes with the old story. Like going through the personal story on a new character and Lion’s Arch is wrecked before Scarlet ever showed up. It’s stupid and inconsistent. Just leave it alone and make new content. Leave old content alone.

Interestingly enough, the Living World was supposed to be all about changing the world. See the destruction of Lion’s Arch fountain a billion times, the Tower of Nightmares, the new Teq, and so on.

Until ArenaNet decided it didn’t work, and tried using the Season 2 model.

Until ArenaNet decided that also didn’t work, and tried using the “season 3 in a box” HoT model.

Is it me, or do we see a pattern here? Does anyone else think that HoT also will not work?

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ralanost.8913

Ralanost.8913

I hate when MMORPGs mess with old content to keep it up with the current story. It messes with the old story. Like going through the personal story on a new character and Lion’s Arch is wrecked before Scarlet ever showed up. It’s stupid and inconsistent. Just leave it alone and make new content. Leave old content alone.

Interestingly enough, the Living World was supposed to be all about changing the world. See the destruction of Lion’s Arch fountain a billion times, the Tower of Nightmares, the new Teq, and so on.

Until ArenaNet decided it didn’t work, and tried using the Season 2 model.

Until ArenaNet decided that also didn’t work, and tried using the “season 3 in a box” HoT model.

Is it me, or do we see a pattern here? Does anyone else think that HoT also will not work?

As a returning player, season 1 is an abject failure. Unless there is a way to catch people up to things that have happened, the story becomes white noise. “What’s going on? Who are these npcs? Are they important?” I missed season one so all I have to show for it is a messed up world and a season 2 story that I couldn’t care less about since I have zero context for it. Removing story from a persistent game is BAD. There are no ways around it. People take breaks, new players join all the time. Having them be completely out of the loop for the story and uninvested in the lore is unacceptable.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Sytherek.7689

Sytherek.7689

As a returning player, season 1 is an abject failure. Unless there is a way to catch people up to things that have happened, the story becomes white noise. “What’s going on? Who are these npcs? Are they important?” I missed season one so all I have to show for it is a messed up world and a season 2 story that I couldn’t care less about since I have zero context for it. Removing story from a persistent game is BAD. There are no ways around it. People take breaks, new players join all the time. Having them be completely out of the loop for the story and uninvested in the lore is unacceptable.

I missed most of Season 1 trying to die in a hospital. I also missed a couple of family birthdays, a really cool astronomical event, and some good times with friends. Can’t get any of that back, but I move on. Bitterness and focusing on missed events serves no purpose.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: layshu.7512

layshu.7512

As a returning player, season 1 is an abject failure. Unless there is a way to catch people up to things that have happened, the story becomes white noise. “What’s going on? Who are these npcs? Are they important?” I missed season one so all I have to show for it is a messed up world and a season 2 story that I couldn’t care less about since I have zero context for it. Removing story from a persistent game is BAD. There are no ways around it. People take breaks, new players join all the time. Having them be completely out of the loop for the story and uninvested in the lore is unacceptable.

I agree. I myself started close to the end of season 1 and was trying to figure out who are those people that call themselves my allies. Wiki helps. Trying to find it out in game does not. I would love to have an opportunity to be able to replay season 1, the same way they did season 2, simply to experience on my own what actually happened back then.

As for Orr, I think this is a double edged sword. While I initially liked the solution of showing a different version of Orr to those that completed a personal story, I think it also means splitting the player base apart. For example, if someone is satisfied with going through a story just once, and all their alts will be stuck in old Orr, and it feels like an extra constraint on the players, forcing them to play the story to get access to new content.

What I think might work is tying the personal story to the actual timeline of the world. So, when you go through the story, at the start of the instance you see a message saying what month and year it is in Tyria. This offers a bit cleaner solution because that way the characters that were physically rolled in recently don’t have to kill Zhaitan after they woke up Mordremoth. Meanwhile, the world proceeds at its own path, and changes happen without affecting the personal story. For Orr, if it turns one day into a blossoming land, we can still keep the story entrances in fort Trinity, which is very unlikely to change in appearance.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Tachenon.5270

Tachenon.5270

Like Red Jay said a few posts up, like I said myself, long ago — use the unexplored other half of Orr to carry on with what happens after the end of the Personal Story, accessible only after one has completed the Personal Story. Leave the current ‘Pre-PS’ portions as is. Something for everyone. Hooray.

The table is a fable.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Rin.1046

Rin.1046

Personally, I found some elements of both seasons 1 & 2 good, and some elements bad. What I would have liked to have seen, and what I would like to see added/changed, for both the LS and PS content is the following:

- Open world events and zone changes that reflect the current stage in the ongoing story of Tyria. Things like the dredge appearing in the flame & frost episode of LS 1 were great, and I would love to see more of those.
- Instanced story missions, which tell of the part you played in the ongoing story. This would replace the current personal story we have now, and change it to an ongoing personal story of your journeys and adventures in Tyria.
- Significant open world events, such as the destruction of the toxic tower, could have cinematics created for them, so players who missed them could get a brief explanation of what happened.
- Big important events, such as taking down an elder dragon, should be instanced so that everyone can experience that event, either at the time it is occuring or later as a historical replay. Much like the new change to the Zhaitan mission, these should be soloable.
- Once each story episode has moved on, all instanced stories, big events and cinematics, will become historic event packs that players can unlock and replay, much like the GW1 bonus missions. These can be unlocked by logging in while they are active or by purchasing them later.

The above would allow players to have a personal story experience as well as experience an ever changing world around them. People complained about the instances, and people complained about open world events that were required to progress the story. Personally, I think instances and open world content can go hand in hand, but they need to be done in a way so they do not interfere with each other.

Your personal story should not be controlled by the open world, and the open world should not require the personal story. But both should be part tof the same ongoing story. One what the world experiences as a whole and one that you experience from your perspective.

To be fair, it is a difficult task for Anet to tackle. But I hope they can make it work, because the MMO genre really needs that living world idea to happen. And I would love it to be Anet who creates the first good example of how a living world should be done.

Simplicity is complex.

Good feedback is key to getting the developers to listen to you.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Inimicus.7162

Inimicus.7162

Like Red Jay said a few posts up, like I said myself, long ago — use the unexplored other half of Orr to carry on with what happens after the end of the Personal Story, accessible only after one has completed the Personal Story. Leave the current ‘Pre-PS’ portions as is. Something for everyone. Hooray.

Oddly, that entire block of Orr is flown over during the Arah story mode. We just don’t get to see much of the ground. We were supposed to however, apparently the Zhaitan fight was meant to be finished on foot after we blew him off the tower.

Some others have mentioned the story instances, their incoming personal story changes are going to address this somewhat, where old story instances will take place in the zones of the time they were made. So when you meet Tybalt, it won’t be near the burnt out bank in an empty street where he keeps on shushing you so that the people who aren’t around won’t hear… you will meet him in Pre-Scarlet LA once more. They have spoken directly to this.

How to mesh a cleansed Orr with the old stories?
1. You can leave it as is, forget it even still exists. (worst case imo, I would love to see the SW event chain system brought to Orr, and living world is a perfect excuse)
2. You can tell the player that they are playing a story that is not up to the current timeline of the zone, and alter open world steps accordingly.
3. You can replace the Orrian Zhaitan undead with some other undead from a nearby continent like say…. Palawa Joko, the undead scourge of Vabbi coming north to see what all the hubbub is about now that he doesn’t need fear the dragon anymore. (my favorite)

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Inimicus.7162

Inimicus.7162

I hate when MMORPGs mess with old content to keep it up with the current story. It messes with the old story. Like going through the personal story on a new character and Lion’s Arch is wrecked before Scarlet ever showed up. It’s stupid and inconsistent. Just leave it alone and make new content. Leave old content alone.

Interestingly enough, the Living World was supposed to be all about changing the world. See the destruction of Lion’s Arch fountain a billion times, the Tower of Nightmares, the new Teq, and so on.

Until ArenaNet decided it didn’t work, and tried using the Season 2 model.

Until ArenaNet decided that also didn’t work, and tried using the “season 3 in a box” HoT model.

Is it me, or do we see a pattern here? Does anyone else think that HoT also will not work?

Season 1 model failed because the releases were epic, but only existed for a few very short weeks. And compounded by being unable to relive them at all. It isn’t that they couldn’t rerun them if they still have the codes around somewhere, it could be done any number of ways, either some deus ex machina “HEY WE GONNA RERUN THIS FOR FUN” announcement and they put it back live for a week or two in a festival like setting, which any LS1 story step is actually a candidate for this. Or a bit less shoehorned; putting the largest bits like dungeon paths or mega bosses AS A WHOLE into FotM as a special rotating festival-like happening. Just because we enter via FotM does NOT mean it need be limited to a 5 man group. These are my 2 best ideas for bringing them back, again… it wasn’t that they just outright sucked, it was that they were here and gone so fast and could never be replayed. And in several cases (Kessex, LA) they smashed some otherwise quite beautiful zones -.- or made them worse depending how you feel. >.>

LS2 lacks all the epicness of LS1. No other way to put it, they wanted this one to be repeatable as this was the largest single gripe about LS1, so they chose to instance it all into a story arc that ultimately landed in an expansion. The story is a nice shoe-in and hopefully the expansion will be epic. But LS1 and LS2 were not designed with the same goals in mind at all. For what LS2 is, however, it was done well by the end and my own major gripe about that is that I would have preferred waiting until the entire zones were finished instead of having the weeks of cooling off with only snips of the zones coming in at any time.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Sytherek.7689

Sytherek.7689

LS2 lacks all the epicness of LS1. No other way to put it, they wanted this one to be repeatable as this was the largest single gripe about LS1, so they chose to instance it all into a story arc that ultimately landed in an expansion. The story is a nice shoe-in and hopefully the expansion will be epic. But LS1 and LS2 were not designed with the same goals in mind at all. For what LS2 is, however, it was done well by the end and my own major gripe about that is that I would have preferred waiting until the entire zones were finished instead of having the weeks of cooling off with only snips of the zones coming in at any time.

LS1 was disjointed and erratic in quality and was very weak on cohesive story telling. It had grand scope and world-affecting events, though.

LS2 had far better story-telling, but felt smaller and less grand.

I enjoyed LS1 more than LS2.

A combination of the two approaches in HoT is what I’m hoping for, along with a good “fix” to make LS1 available again.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Inimicus.7162

Inimicus.7162

LS2 lacks all the epicness of LS1. No other way to put it, they wanted this one to be repeatable as this was the largest single gripe about LS1, so they chose to instance it all into a story arc that ultimately landed in an expansion. The story is a nice shoe-in and hopefully the expansion will be epic. But LS1 and LS2 were not designed with the same goals in mind at all. For what LS2 is, however, it was done well by the end and my own major gripe about that is that I would have preferred waiting until the entire zones were finished instead of having the weeks of cooling off with only snips of the zones coming in at any time.

LS1 was disjointed and erratic in quality and was very weak on cohesive story telling. It had grand scope and world-affecting events, though.

LS2 had far better story-telling, but felt smaller and less grand.

I enjoyed LS1 more than LS2.

A combination of the two approaches in HoT is what I’m hoping for, along with a good “fix” to make LS1 available again.

Very true about the disjointed story. And don’t forget the epic bugs that frequently arose from their short release cycle. xD

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Zaeon.9508

Zaeon.9508

What they could do is that, starting with the chapter you join one of the Orders, they could have a device to make it so the rest of your PS is really looking into the past. Kind of like the pensieve from Harry Potter. Maybe have one of the more powerful Chronomancer NPCs do it, or have a mirror that reflects the past? Or even using the Mists. This way, the PS doesn’t conflict with the present game, and would allow Anet to change Orr if they wanted. Will it be done during HoT? I doubt it. But it could come in as a feature pack later on.

P.S – For those that didn’t read/watch Harry Potter spoiler http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Pensieve

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: sorudo.9054

sorudo.9054

I hate when MMORPGs mess with old content to keep it up with the current story. It messes with the old story. Like going through the personal story on a new character and Lion’s Arch is wrecked before Scarlet ever showed up. It’s stupid and inconsistent. Just leave it alone and make new content. Leave old content alone.

BOR-ING!

It is supposed to be a living story.

a living story only works when a new character is not affected by later events, currently a new character is ahead of time yet does things in the past…..

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

I missed most of Season 1 trying to die in a hospital. I also missed a couple of family birthdays, a really cool astronomical event, and some good times with friends. Can’t get any of that back, but I move on. Bitterness and focusing on missed events serves no purpose.

I’m playing a game to escape from all that, though.

If a game wants me to be attached to the story, the least it can do is give me access to it. And if a game wants to attract new players, the last thing it should do is greet them with a big fat “too bad, you should have been here earlier”.

(edited by RabbitUp.8294)

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Palador.2170

Palador.2170

There is still more than half of Orr unexplored. Why not leave the existing areas as they are and instead introduce a new area east of Cursed Shore, that would have fewer risen foes and more signs of restoration? It could be tied to Palawa Joko/Kralkatorrik conflict as well story-wise.

That way new players would still be able to enjoy the existing content, and those who had beaten the main story would see some further development.

This is what I’m hoping they’ll do. Fill in the rest of the map of Orr as “after PS” areas, and let us see it starting to change.

Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

ANET won’t divide their creative team just to expend resources making a whole edited map.

Pretty much this. ANet has a limited amount of resources, and judging by the overall lack of content recently it seems all of it is going into finished HoT.
Besides from what we know of the story, there’d really be little to no reason that we’d revisit Orr.

Yet we had very cool TEMPORARY content during S1 (I admit, I missed most of it, as I could not keep up with it every two weeks, shame on me).

Well S1 was far more impactful on the world itself. Given that it was the original goal of living world to be sort temporary content that had a noticeable impact on the world thus slowly changing it over time. Practically however players hated it and more often than not it ended up destroying places rather than changing them.

How much are you willing to bet that they won’t remove the old system from the old maps (hearts) and replace them with the new system?

The realization that Anet has limited resources doesn’t seem to come up it seems. ANet can only produce so much content in so much time. If they spent time updating old content you’d get less new content. It’s as simply as that. ANet has stated they’d prefer to add new content than alter old content. In an ideal world they’d be able to update the entire game each time they add something new, however we do not live in an ideal world.

As much as I liked the personal story concept, I have always felt it scuppered the potential of a truly living world.

The problem was that players, surprisingly, were somewhat confused and couldn’t really follow what was going on because new characters and settings were being introduced. So the move to introducing a core-cast was more intended to give some sort of narrative cohesion. As for the true potential of a living world… well the problem will always be the fleeting nature of content. You can’t really have a living world that changes the world and expect all of the content to constantly be available without using things such as phasing that would separate the player base. We don’t necessarily run into the problem is say we do something in one map and next time in another map. But the problem comes with content such as the Battle of LA in which later content will supplant older content. This is the core problem again, updating old content to bring it up to narrative-wise-modernity does mean that content gets lost.

I liked it until I wanted to play with a lower-level player, like a friend or my brother, and couldn’t even be seen. I’ve since changed my opinion on phasing. :\

Yeah that’s bad phasing. Good phasing would do thing like put everyone on the same map (not different maps) but load different textures and character models etc. So instead of loading gloomy-rock-texture-A it loads slightly-less-gloomy-rock-texture-C for a player who has completed a given story step.

Haven’t you noticed that the living story is mostly instanced in chapters? It largely doesn’t affect the main world after season one. It creates problems. Call it boring all you want, but it isn’t sustainable. At least with the current infrastructure.

Not so much the technicalities but the practicalities.

Until ArenaNet decided it didn’t work, and tried using the Season 2 model.

Until ArenaNet decided that also didn’t work, and tried using the “season 3 in a box” HoT model.

Is it me, or do we see a pattern here? Does anyone else think that HoT also will not work?

ANet didn’t decide anything. Players were complaining on the forums and ANet listened. The change is as a direct result of player feedback. The only pattern is that players are never happy.

Like Red Jay said a few posts up, like I said myself, long ago — use the unexplored other half of Orr to carry on with what happens after the end of the Personal Story, accessible only after one has completed the Personal Story. Leave the current ‘Pre-PS’ portions as is. Something for everyone. Hooray.

Simple and Elegant.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: dietzero.3514

dietzero.3514

What they could do is that, starting with the chapter you join one of the Orders, they could have a device to make it so the rest of your PS is really looking into the past. Kind of like the pensieve from Harry Potter. Maybe have one of the more powerful Chronomancer NPCs do it, or have a mirror that reflects the past? Or even using the Mists. This way, the PS doesn’t conflict with the present game, and would allow Anet to change Orr if they wanted. Will it be done during HoT? I doubt it. But it could come in as a feature pack later on.

P.S – For those that didn’t read/watch Harry Potter spoiler http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Pensieve

I like this idea. Other games employ similar things.

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Louveepine.7630

Louveepine.7630

I may be an idea.

Why not put a super-position, such as:

- Normal map Orr 80 (former)
- Open and accessible history card to those who were living history. or one must go through another passage than normal, making us pass it. and if we choose to go through the former, we find ourselves again in the former.

# Asura because I’m worth it!

What happens to Orr?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

I kinda feel that people dont even read op, he or she clearly stated that it would be 2 versions of orr maps, old orr(current unchanged one) and new orr(cleansed one), players upon loading would get option to chose to which version of orr map they want to go, of course cleansed orr would be locked out for people that didnt do the PS yet.
All it needs from anet is to copy and edit the old maps and add simple option system to chose the map upon or before loading.

(edited by Cold Hearted Person.6154)