Guild Wars 2

eldrin.6471:

manifesto is public declaration of policy and aims. and in my book if you change them after taking my money on false pretenses you a lair/fraudster/cheet

That sounds like a you problem, not an ANet or anybody else problem. You should work on that.

Vayne.8563:

eldrin.6471:

manifesto is public declaration of policy and aims. and in my book if you change them after taking my money on false pretenses you a lair/fraudster/cheet

So if you tell your kids we’re going to the movies tonight and then you get called into work and can’t take them because the situation changed, even though when you said it it was absolutely true, you become a liar/fraudster/cheat?

Where in your example did he take his kids’ money on false pretenses?

PyrateSilly.4710:

This has been answered so many times as it is now ridiculous to even think about bringing up something that was just a “this is what we would like” and as things change and grow things get cut and added.
As for the grinding …… I have been playing since head-start/beta and I have yet to grind. Not once have I grinded and I have played just about every day. I am not only doing the old Bolt but also every other new legendary weapon in the game at the moment. I am collecting as I go and not worrying about how fast I get them done. For me it is not a contest to see how fast I get them done. I am just letting the pieces come when they come. Having too much fun just playing to think about “oh crap I don’t have this legendary yet”

I call bs, you can’t play this game without grinding for something, anyone who claims otherwise has a faulty definition of a grind.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

90% of the manifesto remains absolutely true and of the 10% that isn’t absolutely true, there are questions over interpretation.

/thread

And I hope you don’t mind that I fixed the misspelling, Mr. I-was-an-editor-but-post-too-much-to-edit-my-posts.

It’s like contractors who never work on their house. Editing is a business. Last thing I want to do here is edit my posts. Or research stuff. I had years of that kitten.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

eldrin.6471:

manifesto is public declaration of policy and aims. and in my book if you change them after taking my money on false pretenses you a lair/fraudster/cheet

So if you tell your kids we’re going to the movies tonight and then you get called into work and can’t take them because the situation changed, even though when you said it it was absolutely true, you become a liar/fraudster/cheat?

Where in your example did he take his kids’ money on false pretenses?

He didn’t take his kids money but it’s completely irrelevant. Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes. They told us. They wrote an entire blogpost about it. And they offered refunds at the time for up to six months when Ascended gear came out, so they offered him his money back if he felt he was cheated. Many people did get refunds.

Which means that he was silly for not getting it if he felt ripped off. If someone sold me something, had to make changes, offered me a refund and I didn’t take it, I sure wouldn’t come back 3 years later and complain.

Because that’s at the very least disingenuous. Where in his post did he say that people were given refunds because of the change of direction? How the hell is that dishonest or shady?

Vayne.8563:

Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes.

If you need as many iterations as ANet do to get things right, you’re doing something wrong. We’ve been looking at “same content, different coat” and “same content, new rewards” for far too long.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes.

If you need as many iterations as ANet do to get things right, you’re doing something wrong. We’ve been looking at “same content, different coat” and “same content, new rewards” for far too long.

I respectfully disagree. There’s nothing the same about the new expansion. The AI is different. The setup is different.

If you’re saying all we get are kill, protection, guard and gather quests, well yes, that’s what there is to get in pretty much every game everywhere. Maybe rescue too.

But it’s how these things are provided. It’s like action movies and romantic comedies. They’ve all be done before. It’s how you do them that makes all the difference. You may not personally like how they’re done in HoT, but my experience in HoT is very differetn from say Dry Top or Orr.

Dresdoe.7503:

PyrateSilly.4710:

This has been answered so many times as it is now ridiculous to even think about bringing up something that was just a “this is what we would like” and as things change and grow things get cut and added.
As for the grinding …… I have been playing since head-start/beta and I have yet to grind. Not once have I grinded and I have played just about every day. I am not only doing the old Bolt but also every other new legendary weapon in the game at the moment. I am collecting as I go and not worrying about how fast I get them done. For me it is not a contest to see how fast I get them done. I am just letting the pieces come when they come. Having too much fun just playing to think about “oh crap I don’t have this legendary yet”

I call bs, you can’t play this game without grinding for something, anyone who claims otherwise has a faulty definition of a grind.

You can call BS all you want but you are not me, you are not with me when I play. You have no clue how often I play or when I play or what I do when I play. I will just tell you again that I do NOT grind. I find it dumb to do that as the end result is something that I do not need right now as it’s just a game. A game that I play to relax and to try to forget the pain that I am in.
I have played games online since the old BBS days, I have never grinded in any game I have played.

PyrateSilly.4710:

Dresdoe.7503:

PyrateSilly.4710:

This has been answered so many times as it is now ridiculous to even think about bringing up something that was just a “this is what we would like” and as things change and grow things get cut and added.
As for the grinding …… I have been playing since head-start/beta and I have yet to grind. Not once have I grinded and I have played just about every day. I am not only doing the old Bolt but also every other new legendary weapon in the game at the moment. I am collecting as I go and not worrying about how fast I get them done. For me it is not a contest to see how fast I get them done. I am just letting the pieces come when they come. Having too much fun just playing to think about “oh crap I don’t have this legendary yet”

I call bs, you can’t play this game without grinding for something, anyone who claims otherwise has a faulty definition of a grind.

You can call BS all you want but you are not me, you are not with me when I play. You have no clue how often I play or when I play or what I do when I play. I will just tell you again that I do NOT grind. I find it dumb to do that as the end result is something that I do not need right now as it’s just a game. A game that I play to relax and to try to forget the pain that I am in.
I have played games online since the old BBS days, I have never grinded in any game I have played.

Many people have said they don’t grind. Are they all liars? I agree with PyrateSIlly it’s entirely possible to play this game without grinding.

Vayne.8563:

PyrateSilly.4710:

Dresdoe.7503:

PyrateSilly.4710:

This has been answered so many times as it is now ridiculous to even think about bringing up something that was just a “this is what we would like” and as things change and grow things get cut and added.
As for the grinding …… I have been playing since head-start/beta and I have yet to grind. Not once have I grinded and I have played just about every day. I am not only doing the old Bolt but also every other new legendary weapon in the game at the moment. I am collecting as I go and not worrying about how fast I get them done. For me it is not a contest to see how fast I get them done. I am just letting the pieces come when they come. Having too much fun just playing to think about “oh crap I don’t have this legendary yet”

I call bs, you can’t play this game without grinding for something, anyone who claims otherwise has a faulty definition of a grind.

You can call BS all you want but you are not me, you are not with me when I play. You have no clue how often I play or when I play or what I do when I play. I will just tell you again that I do NOT grind. I find it dumb to do that as the end result is something that I do not need right now as it’s just a game. A game that I play to relax and to try to forget the pain that I am in.
I have played games online since the old BBS days, I have never grinded in any game I have played.

Many people have said they don’t grind. Are they all liars? I agree with PyrateSIlly it’s entirely possible to play this game without grinding.

Well I think that it usually not mean the same thing for everybody. For exemple, I have 8 of my 9 character next to rich vein of iron and platinum and I gather them about 10min per day. Is it grind? It does a it feel like it, but it’s such a small grind that I don’t mind and I’m happy to have all Iron, Steel and Darksteel I need when crafting Deldrimor. Doing dungoen for gold is it grind? For some people yes, I usually have fun doing them so for me it’s not. You can play the game without grinding stuff, but that doesn’t mean because you think that you don’t grind that other people won’t think that what you do isn’t grind.

That said, if everything for them is a grind I don’t get why they are still playing tbh.

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes.

If you need as many iterations as ANet do to get things right, you’re doing something wrong. We’ve been looking at “same content, different coat” and “same content, new rewards” for far too long.

I respectfully disagree. There’s nothing the same about the new expansion. The AI is different. The setup is different.

If you’re saying all we get are kill, protection, guard and gather quests, well yes, that’s what there is to get in pretty much every game everywhere. Maybe rescue too.

But it’s how these things are provided. It’s like action movies and romantic comedies. They’ve all be done before. It’s how you do them that makes all the difference. You may not personally like how they’re done in HoT, but my experience in HoT is very differetn from say Dry Top or Orr.

I wasn’t talking about the expansion. Whatever gave you that idea. An expansion isn’t an “iteration”. I was talking about “same content”, it’s right up there in the post you quoted. Not “new content”, i.e. the expansion.

I was talking about revamp after revamp of the original content. Four ways of doing traits, the butchery and resurrection of the personal story. And it wasn’t original launch content, but consider Fractals: original release, “Fractured”, 50 levels, 100 levels, upcoming reward and higher level stat rebalancing. Let’s iterate some more!

There are many more instances, across the entire game, of “same content, new rewards”. Even the “precursor hunts” turned out to fall squarely into that category and that actually was part of the expansion. It’s quite ludicrous, having to pay to get more rewards for the same content. I’d sooner pay for the opposite: new content with the same reward. Because, new content is entertaining. Rewards are meaningless without the entertainment that should be part of the pursuit of them.

Thaddeus.4891:

Vayne.8563:

PyrateSilly.4710:

Dresdoe.7503:

PyrateSilly.4710:

This has been answered so many times as it is now ridiculous to even think about bringing up something that was just a “this is what we would like” and as things change and grow things get cut and added.
As for the grinding …… I have been playing since head-start/beta and I have yet to grind. Not once have I grinded and I have played just about every day. I am not only doing the old Bolt but also every other new legendary weapon in the game at the moment. I am collecting as I go and not worrying about how fast I get them done. For me it is not a contest to see how fast I get them done. I am just letting the pieces come when they come. Having too much fun just playing to think about “oh crap I don’t have this legendary yet”

I call bs, you can’t play this game without grinding for something, anyone who claims otherwise has a faulty definition of a grind.

You can call BS all you want but you are not me, you are not with me when I play. You have no clue how often I play or when I play or what I do when I play. I will just tell you again that I do NOT grind. I find it dumb to do that as the end result is something that I do not need right now as it’s just a game. A game that I play to relax and to try to forget the pain that I am in.
I have played games online since the old BBS days, I have never grinded in any game I have played.

Many people have said they don’t grind. Are they all liars? I agree with PyrateSIlly it’s entirely possible to play this game without grinding.

Well I think that it usually not mean the same thing for everybody. For exemple, I have 8 of my 9 character next to rich vein of iron and platinum and I gather them about 10min per day. Is it grind? It does a it feel like it, but it’s such a small grind that I don’t mind and I’m happy to have all Iron, Steel and Darksteel I need when crafting Deldrimor. Doing dungoen for gold is it grind? For some people yes, I usually have fun doing them so for me it’s not. You can play the game without grinding stuff, but that doesn’t mean because you think that you don’t grind that other people won’t think that what you do isn’t grind.

That said, if everything for them is a grind I don’t get why they are still playing tbh.

I do what I want when I want. I have guys parked by rich nodes too, but I usually don’t log in on them, because you know, that’s a chore. But every now and again, I’ll log in on a couple when I feel like doing it. I’m not grinding.

Grind generally refers to repeating the same content over and over like people grinding spiders, or grinding cave trolls.

But running around and playing the game, doing what you want when you want because you’re not focused on a goal or rewards, that’s never going to be grinding.

Let’s say that I’m just hanging out with friends, chatting away while running around doing whatever. And I do mean whatever. I’m not in Orr, or Southsun. I’m not farming blood. I see a tree, I cut it down. I see an event, I jump in. I think oh, look, there’s that jumping puzzle I like.

Sometimes, I do stupid stuff that literally makes me not a cent. Like following NPCs around and seeing where they go, and what they do.

Sometimes I make up silly games to play with the guild, like hey let’s run this new guy to the gates of Arah when he’s only level 12.

The closest thing I do to grinding is running guild events, because I like getting the whole guild together to do stuff.

This week, on Tuesday, we all got together to to a zone completion of Verdant Brink. We got about 80% done in one go and called it for the night. It’s something to do. Is it grinding?

Not in my book.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes.

If you need as many iterations as ANet do to get things right, you’re doing something wrong. We’ve been looking at “same content, different coat” and “same content, new rewards” for far too long.

I respectfully disagree. There’s nothing the same about the new expansion. The AI is different. The setup is different.

If you’re saying all we get are kill, protection, guard and gather quests, well yes, that’s what there is to get in pretty much every game everywhere. Maybe rescue too.

But it’s how these things are provided. It’s like action movies and romantic comedies. They’ve all be done before. It’s how you do them that makes all the difference. You may not personally like how they’re done in HoT, but my experience in HoT is very differetn from say Dry Top or Orr.

I wasn’t talking about the expansion. Whatever gave you that idea. An expansion isn’t an “iteration”. I was talking about “same content”, it’s right up there in the post you quoted. Not “new content”, i.e. the expansion.

I was talking about revamp after revamp of the original content. Four ways of doing traits, the butchery and resurrection of the personal story. And it wasn’t original launch content, but consider Fractals: original release, “Fractured”, 50 levels, 100 levels, upcoming reward and higher level stat rebalancing. Let’s iterate some more!

There are many more instances, across the entire game, of “same content, new rewards”. Even the “precursor hunts” turned out to fall squarely into that category and that actually was part of the expansion. It’s quite ludicrous, having to pay to get more rewards for the same content. I’d sooner pay for the opposite: new content with the same reward. Because, new content is entertaining. Rewards are meaningless without the entertainment that should be part of the pursuit of them.

So what you’re really complaining about is that Guild Wars 2 is making content redoable when in most MMOs you do the content once and never do it again. I see.

Because there’s no real reason to go back to old dungeons in most games. You get what you get and never see it again. An expansion comes out, if your’e lucky you get a month or two out of it, and then you hit the brakes for a year or two until the next expansion comes out.

Making that content something people can do again is actually smart. Because some people really like that content.

I love jumping puzzles. I’ll take any excuse to do one. Hell I do them without an excuse. So if there’s something that gives me a reason to go do them, I’m a happy camper.

You seem to be laboring under the assumption that giving people stuff to do is bad somehow. Because there’s no way in the world they can give us enough new stuff to do.

I have a guy in my guild that plays WoW. Every time an expansion comes out he’s gone for about six weeks. Then he unsubs and waits for the next expansion to come out.

He plays this game more than WoW, even though WoW expansions are bigger, because the entire world can be revisited.

That’s actually progress in this genre.

Well a declaration of intent is great and all that but just like politicians who say one thing before an election theN once they got your vote they do what THEY like.ITS DISHONEST.

Found the manifesto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oav-tDznRq0

(Guess how well this is maintained)

Soa Cirri.6012:

Found the manifesto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oav-tDznRq0

(Guess how well this is maintained)

From like five years ago.

Ayrilana.1396:

Soa Cirri.6012:

Found the manifesto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oav-tDznRq0

(Guess how well this is maintained)

From like five years ago.

……………………………………..

(No one appreciates classic film on these forums sad face)

A some people have said this was not a promise just a statement of intent to take our money and do whatever the hell they like.

Soa Cirri.6012:

Ayrilana.1396:

Soa Cirri.6012:

Found the manifesto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oav-tDznRq0

(Guess how well this is maintained)

From like five years ago.

……………………………………..

(No one appreciates classic film on these forums sad face)

Maybe if you included popcorn…

eldrin.6471:

A some people have said this was not a promise just a statement of intent to take our money and do whatever the hell they like.

That’s what those typically are.

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes.

If you need as many iterations as ANet do to get things right, you’re doing something wrong. We’ve been looking at “same content, different coat” and “same content, new rewards” for far too long.

I respectfully disagree. There’s nothing the same about the new expansion. The AI is different. The setup is different.

If you’re saying all we get are kill, protection, guard and gather quests, well yes, that’s what there is to get in pretty much every game everywhere. Maybe rescue too.

But it’s how these things are provided. It’s like action movies and romantic comedies. They’ve all be done before. It’s how you do them that makes all the difference. You may not personally like how they’re done in HoT, but my experience in HoT is very differetn from say Dry Top or Orr.

I wasn’t talking about the expansion. Whatever gave you that idea. An expansion isn’t an “iteration”. I was talking about “same content”, it’s right up there in the post you quoted. Not “new content”, i.e. the expansion.

I was talking about revamp after revamp of the original content. Four ways of doing traits, the butchery and resurrection of the personal story. And it wasn’t original launch content, but consider Fractals: original release, “Fractured”, 50 levels, 100 levels, upcoming reward and higher level stat rebalancing. Let’s iterate some more!

There are many more instances, across the entire game, of “same content, new rewards”. Even the “precursor hunts” turned out to fall squarely into that category and that actually was part of the expansion. It’s quite ludicrous, having to pay to get more rewards for the same content. I’d sooner pay for the opposite: new content with the same reward. Because, new content is entertaining. Rewards are meaningless without the entertainment that should be part of the pursuit of them.

So what you’re really complaining about is that Guild Wars 2 is making content redoable when in most MMOs you do the content once and never do it again. I see.

Because there’s no real reason to go back to old dungeons in most games. You get what you get and never see it again. An expansion comes out, if your’e lucky you get a month or two out of it, and then you hit the brakes for a year or two until the next expansion comes out.

Making that content something people can do again is actually smart. Because some people really like that content.

I love jumping puzzles. I’ll take any excuse to do one. Hell I do them without an excuse. So if there’s something that gives me a reason to go do them, I’m a happy camper.

You seem to be laboring under the assumption that giving people stuff to do is bad somehow. Because there’s no way in the world they can give us enough new stuff to do.

I have a guy in my guild that plays WoW. Every time an expansion comes out he’s gone for about six weeks. Then he unsubs and waits for the next expansion to come out.

He plays this game more than WoW, even though WoW expansions are bigger, because the entire world can be revisited.

That’s actually progress in this genre.

“laboring under the assumption that giving people stuff to do is bad”

You are really priceless. My complaint is exactly the opposite, as anyone with shred of reading comprehension could easily pick up on: they don’t give stuff to do, with their “iterations”. Time and time again, they’ve presented us with exactly the same stuff in a new dress and call it fancy names to make it look new. With HoT they even made us pay for it in cash instead of time spent in the game. It’s shameless.

Also, I believe a lot of people would be a lot happier with the game right now if they hadn’t messed with the dungeons at HoT release. No one is going back to that. What’s next? Waiting for another “iteration”?

Dresdoe.7503:

PyrateSilly.4710:

This has been answered so many times as it is now ridiculous to even think about bringing up something that was just a “this is what we would like” and as things change and grow things get cut and added.
As for the grinding …… I have been playing since head-start/beta and I have yet to grind. Not once have I grinded and I have played just about every day. I am not only doing the old Bolt but also every other new legendary weapon in the game at the moment. I am collecting as I go and not worrying about how fast I get them done. For me it is not a contest to see how fast I get them done. I am just letting the pieces come when they come. Having too much fun just playing to think about “oh crap I don’t have this legendary yet”

I call bs, you can’t play this game without grinding for something, anyone who claims otherwise has a faulty definition of a grind.

Or, possibly, you do.

They made promises not the long ago,we were told just before hot that they wouldn’t increase lvl cap and invalidate all our hard worked for gear. Well guess what you just invalidated all our Expensive ascended armor buy adding a new legendary tier armor.

eldrin.6471:

They made promises not the long ago,we were told just before hot that they wouldn’t increase lvl cap and invalidate all our hard worked for gear. Well guess what you just invalidated all our Expensive ascended armor buy adding a new legendary tier armor.

What??? Legendary armor is the same stats as ascended.

Vayne.8563:

So what you’re really complaining about is that Guild Wars 2 is making content redoable when in most MMOs you do the content once and never do it again. I see.

Wow, Vayne. Just… wow. Sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I disagree with you, and sometimes I wonder if you’ve missed someone’s point, but… NEVER have I seen you so completely misunderstand what someone has written.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes.

If you need as many iterations as ANet do to get things right, you’re doing something wrong. We’ve been looking at “same content, different coat” and “same content, new rewards” for far too long.

I respectfully disagree. There’s nothing the same about the new expansion. The AI is different. The setup is different.

If you’re saying all we get are kill, protection, guard and gather quests, well yes, that’s what there is to get in pretty much every game everywhere. Maybe rescue too.

But it’s how these things are provided. It’s like action movies and romantic comedies. They’ve all be done before. It’s how you do them that makes all the difference. You may not personally like how they’re done in HoT, but my experience in HoT is very differetn from say Dry Top or Orr.

I wasn’t talking about the expansion. Whatever gave you that idea. An expansion isn’t an “iteration”. I was talking about “same content”, it’s right up there in the post you quoted. Not “new content”, i.e. the expansion.

I was talking about revamp after revamp of the original content. Four ways of doing traits, the butchery and resurrection of the personal story. And it wasn’t original launch content, but consider Fractals: original release, “Fractured”, 50 levels, 100 levels, upcoming reward and higher level stat rebalancing. Let’s iterate some more!

There are many more instances, across the entire game, of “same content, new rewards”. Even the “precursor hunts” turned out to fall squarely into that category and that actually was part of the expansion. It’s quite ludicrous, having to pay to get more rewards for the same content. I’d sooner pay for the opposite: new content with the same reward. Because, new content is entertaining. Rewards are meaningless without the entertainment that should be part of the pursuit of them.

So what you’re really complaining about is that Guild Wars 2 is making content redoable when in most MMOs you do the content once and never do it again. I see.

Because there’s no real reason to go back to old dungeons in most games. You get what you get and never see it again. An expansion comes out, if your’e lucky you get a month or two out of it, and then you hit the brakes for a year or two until the next expansion comes out.

Making that content something people can do again is actually smart. Because some people really like that content.

I love jumping puzzles. I’ll take any excuse to do one. Hell I do them without an excuse. So if there’s something that gives me a reason to go do them, I’m a happy camper.

You seem to be laboring under the assumption that giving people stuff to do is bad somehow. Because there’s no way in the world they can give us enough new stuff to do.

I have a guy in my guild that plays WoW. Every time an expansion comes out he’s gone for about six weeks. Then he unsubs and waits for the next expansion to come out.

He plays this game more than WoW, even though WoW expansions are bigger, because the entire world can be revisited.

That’s actually progress in this genre.

“laboring under the assumption that giving people stuff to do is bad”

You are really priceless. My complaint is exactly the opposite, as anyone with shred of reading comprehension could easily pick up on: they don’t give stuff to do, with their “iterations”. Time and time again, they’ve presented us with exactly the same stuff in a new dress and call it fancy names to make it look new. With HoT they even made us pay for it in cash instead of time spent in the game. It’s shameless.

Also, I believe a lot of people would be a lot happier with the game right now if they hadn’t messed with the dungeons at HoT release. No one is going back to that. What’s next? Waiting for another “iteration”?

But you’re excluding HoT, in which they did indeed give us stuff to do. New zones, new events, new AI, even a new raid, new minigames. That’s all stuff to do mate. You said you were excluding HoT and talking about the core game.

And you imply I have bad reading comprehension.

You can’t have it both ways. Exclude HoT when you want to talk about repetition and the forget about it, when you want to talk about not getting new stuff. Either HoT isn’t part of your argument or it is. You can’t have it both ways. Exclude it or include it. Make up your mind.

Palador.2170:

Vayne.8563:

So what you’re really complaining about is that Guild Wars 2 is making content redoable when in most MMOs you do the content once and never do it again. I see.

Wow, Vayne. Just… wow. Sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I disagree with you, and sometimes I wonder if you’ve missed someone’s point, but… NEVER have I seen you so completely misunderstand what someone has written.

I didn’t misunderstand, you’re misunderstanding me. Essentially he said everything was rewrapped, rebranded reused. I brought up HoT. He asked me what makes you think I was talking about HoT. I was talking about the old stuff.

My comment is simple. HoT does in fact give you new stuff, which he was happy enough to exclude from his calculation. So now he was talking about newer stuff that isn’t HoT. He’s saying that older stuff is being rebranded. I’m saying yes, that older stuff is being rebranded. Good.

Because in most other games that older stuff, including the entire zone is completely wasted.

I played Rift. There was no reason to ever return to an earlier zone. The creatures didn’t attack you. You didn’t get any experience. You didn’t get any reward.

All Anet has really done was to make that content something you can revisit. They’re not taking an increasingly large percentage of the world and making it an area you can’t use. That was indeed the entire point out downleveling. Well that and playing with friends.

The person you claim I’m misinterpreting was happy enough to exclude new content from his argument to talk about reusing older content.

And my argument stands. I’d much rather have it this way then the other way…because I’ve had it both ways. Reusing old content is an advance in the genre. Sitting in the last new zone and only doing that stuff is actually an issue for me and has been in other games.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

eldrin.6471:

manifesto is public declaration of policy and aims. and in my book if you change them after taking my money on false pretenses you a lair/fraudster/cheet

So if you tell your kids we’re going to the movies tonight and then you get called into work and can’t take them because the situation changed, even though when you said it it was absolutely true, you become a liar/fraudster/cheat?

Where in your example did he take his kids’ money on false pretenses?

He didn’t take his kids money but it’s completely irrelevant. Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes. They told us. They wrote an entire blogpost about it. And they offered refunds at the time for up to six months when Ascended gear came out, so they offered him his money back if he felt he was cheated. Many people did get refunds.

Which means that he was silly for not getting it if he felt ripped off. If someone sold me something, had to make changes, offered me a refund and I didn’t take it, I sure wouldn’t come back 3 years later and complain.

Because that’s at the very least disingenuous. Where in his post did he say that people were given refunds because of the change of direction? How the hell is that dishonest or shady?

You compared a parent’s interactions with their children to a business relationship between consumer and producer. Huge difference. I merely asked where the money was in the parent/child interaction since you indicated that it was the same thing.

The refund offer was significantly limited.

Vayne.8563:

So what you’re really complaining about is that Guild Wars 2 is making content redoable when in most MMOs you do the content once and never do it again. I see.

I have yet to see an MMO where one could not redo/replay most content. GW2 limits content replay more than most, in my experience (LS1).

The truth is out there.

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes.

If you need as many iterations as ANet do to get things right, you’re doing something wrong. We’ve been looking at “same content, different coat” and “same content, new rewards” for far too long.

I respectfully disagree. There’s nothing the same about the new expansion. The AI is different. The setup is different.

If you’re saying all we get are kill, protection, guard and gather quests, well yes, that’s what there is to get in pretty much every game everywhere. Maybe rescue too.

But it’s how these things are provided. It’s like action movies and romantic comedies. They’ve all be done before. It’s how you do them that makes all the difference. You may not personally like how they’re done in HoT, but my experience in HoT is very differetn from say Dry Top or Orr.

I wasn’t talking about the expansion. Whatever gave you that idea. An expansion isn’t an “iteration”. I was talking about “same content”, it’s right up there in the post you quoted. Not “new content”, i.e. the expansion.

I was talking about revamp after revamp of the original content. Four ways of doing traits, the butchery and resurrection of the personal story. And it wasn’t original launch content, but consider Fractals: original release, “Fractured”, 50 levels, 100 levels, upcoming reward and higher level stat rebalancing. Let’s iterate some more!

There are many more instances, across the entire game, of “same content, new rewards”. Even the “precursor hunts” turned out to fall squarely into that category and that actually was part of the expansion. It’s quite ludicrous, having to pay to get more rewards for the same content. I’d sooner pay for the opposite: new content with the same reward. Because, new content is entertaining. Rewards are meaningless without the entertainment that should be part of the pursuit of them.

So what you’re really complaining about is that Guild Wars 2 is making content redoable when in most MMOs you do the content once and never do it again. I see.

Because there’s no real reason to go back to old dungeons in most games. You get what you get and never see it again. An expansion comes out, if your’e lucky you get a month or two out of it, and then you hit the brakes for a year or two until the next expansion comes out.

Making that content something people can do again is actually smart. Because some people really like that content.

I love jumping puzzles. I’ll take any excuse to do one. Hell I do them without an excuse. So if there’s something that gives me a reason to go do them, I’m a happy camper.

You seem to be laboring under the assumption that giving people stuff to do is bad somehow. Because there’s no way in the world they can give us enough new stuff to do.

I have a guy in my guild that plays WoW. Every time an expansion comes out he’s gone for about six weeks. Then he unsubs and waits for the next expansion to come out.

He plays this game more than WoW, even though WoW expansions are bigger, because the entire world can be revisited.

That’s actually progress in this genre.

“laboring under the assumption that giving people stuff to do is bad”

You are really priceless. My complaint is exactly the opposite, as anyone with shred of reading comprehension could easily pick up on: they don’t give stuff to do, with their “iterations”. Time and time again, they’ve presented us with exactly the same stuff in a new dress and call it fancy names to make it look new. With HoT they even made us pay for it in cash instead of time spent in the game. It’s shameless.

Also, I believe a lot of people would be a lot happier with the game right now if they hadn’t messed with the dungeons at HoT release. No one is going back to that. What’s next? Waiting for another “iteration”?

But you’re excluding HoT, in which they did indeed give us stuff to do. New zones, new events, new AI, even a new raid, new minigames. That’s all stuff to do mate. You said you were excluding HoT and talking about the core game.

And you imply I have bad reading comprehension.

You can’t have it both ways. Exclude HoT when you want to talk about repetition and the forget about it, when you want to talk about not getting new stuff. Either HoT isn’t part of your argument or it is. You can’t have it both ways. Exclude it or include it. Make up your mind.

Jeez man, get a clue.

Let me break it down for you.

ANet has been repackaging the core content again and again, for years. This, I think, is not a good thing.

HoT continues this trend of repackaging the core game’s content. This, I think, is an even worse thing.

HoT also introduces some completely new things. (Things I don’t like, but that’s a different discussion.) Because these new things are not repackaged core game content, they fall outside of the scope of my argument.

Is it really that hard?

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

eldrin.6471:

manifesto is public declaration of policy and aims. and in my book if you change them after taking my money on false pretenses you a lair/fraudster/cheet

So if you tell your kids we’re going to the movies tonight and then you get called into work and can’t take them because the situation changed, even though when you said it it was absolutely true, you become a liar/fraudster/cheat?

Where in your example did he take his kids’ money on false pretenses?

He didn’t take his kids money but it’s completely irrelevant. Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes. They told us. They wrote an entire blogpost about it. And they offered refunds at the time for up to six months when Ascended gear came out, so they offered him his money back if he felt he was cheated. Many people did get refunds.

Which means that he was silly for not getting it if he felt ripped off. If someone sold me something, had to make changes, offered me a refund and I didn’t take it, I sure wouldn’t come back 3 years later and complain.

Because that’s at the very least disingenuous. Where in his post did he say that people were given refunds because of the change of direction? How the hell is that dishonest or shady?

You compared a parent’s interactions with their children to a business relationship between consumer and producer. Huge difference. I merely asked where the money was in the parent/child interaction since you indicated that it was the same thing.

The refund offer was significantly limited.

Vayne.8563:

So what you’re really complaining about is that Guild Wars 2 is making content redoable when in most MMOs you do the content once and never do it again. I see.

I have yet to see an MMO where one could not redo/replay most content. GW2 limits content replay more than most, in my experience (LS1).

Which they changed with LS 2 and haven’t done anything since. Why complain about something that was changed well over a year ago? This isn’t a current issue. There are enough current issues without bring up past ones.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes.

If you need as many iterations as ANet do to get things right, you’re doing something wrong. We’ve been looking at “same content, different coat” and “same content, new rewards” for far too long.

I respectfully disagree. There’s nothing the same about the new expansion. The AI is different. The setup is different.

If you’re saying all we get are kill, protection, guard and gather quests, well yes, that’s what there is to get in pretty much every game everywhere. Maybe rescue too.

But it’s how these things are provided. It’s like action movies and romantic comedies. They’ve all be done before. It’s how you do them that makes all the difference. You may not personally like how they’re done in HoT, but my experience in HoT is very differetn from say Dry Top or Orr.

I wasn’t talking about the expansion. Whatever gave you that idea. An expansion isn’t an “iteration”. I was talking about “same content”, it’s right up there in the post you quoted. Not “new content”, i.e. the expansion.

I was talking about revamp after revamp of the original content. Four ways of doing traits, the butchery and resurrection of the personal story. And it wasn’t original launch content, but consider Fractals: original release, “Fractured”, 50 levels, 100 levels, upcoming reward and higher level stat rebalancing. Let’s iterate some more!

There are many more instances, across the entire game, of “same content, new rewards”. Even the “precursor hunts” turned out to fall squarely into that category and that actually was part of the expansion. It’s quite ludicrous, having to pay to get more rewards for the same content. I’d sooner pay for the opposite: new content with the same reward. Because, new content is entertaining. Rewards are meaningless without the entertainment that should be part of the pursuit of them.

So what you’re really complaining about is that Guild Wars 2 is making content redoable when in most MMOs you do the content once and never do it again. I see.

Because there’s no real reason to go back to old dungeons in most games. You get what you get and never see it again. An expansion comes out, if your’e lucky you get a month or two out of it, and then you hit the brakes for a year or two until the next expansion comes out.

Making that content something people can do again is actually smart. Because some people really like that content.

I love jumping puzzles. I’ll take any excuse to do one. Hell I do them without an excuse. So if there’s something that gives me a reason to go do them, I’m a happy camper.

You seem to be laboring under the assumption that giving people stuff to do is bad somehow. Because there’s no way in the world they can give us enough new stuff to do.

I have a guy in my guild that plays WoW. Every time an expansion comes out he’s gone for about six weeks. Then he unsubs and waits for the next expansion to come out.

He plays this game more than WoW, even though WoW expansions are bigger, because the entire world can be revisited.

That’s actually progress in this genre.

“laboring under the assumption that giving people stuff to do is bad”

You are really priceless. My complaint is exactly the opposite, as anyone with shred of reading comprehension could easily pick up on: they don’t give stuff to do, with their “iterations”. Time and time again, they’ve presented us with exactly the same stuff in a new dress and call it fancy names to make it look new. With HoT they even made us pay for it in cash instead of time spent in the game. It’s shameless.

Also, I believe a lot of people would be a lot happier with the game right now if they hadn’t messed with the dungeons at HoT release. No one is going back to that. What’s next? Waiting for another “iteration”?

But you’re excluding HoT, in which they did indeed give us stuff to do. New zones, new events, new AI, even a new raid, new minigames. That’s all stuff to do mate. You said you were excluding HoT and talking about the core game.

And you imply I have bad reading comprehension.

You can’t have it both ways. Exclude HoT when you want to talk about repetition and the forget about it, when you want to talk about not getting new stuff. Either HoT isn’t part of your argument or it is. You can’t have it both ways. Exclude it or include it. Make up your mind.

Jeez man, get a clue.

Let me break it down for you.

ANet has been repackaging the core content again and again, for years. This, I think, is not a good thing.

HoT continues this trend of repackaging the core game’s content. This, I think, is an even worse thing.

HoT also introduces some completely new things. (Things I don’t like, but that’s a different discussion.) Because these new things are not repackaged core game content, they fall outside of the scope of my argument.

Is it really that hard?

Self serving circular arguments are always easy. I’m pretty sure we’re done here. It’s quite easy to see that you’re only interested in finding ways to refute what I say. And I’m pretty sure everyone can see it.

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Because Anet said many times long ago, that they iterate everything and sometimes even major stuff changes.

If you need as many iterations as ANet do to get things right, you’re doing something wrong. We’ve been looking at “same content, different coat” and “same content, new rewards” for far too long.

I respectfully disagree. There’s nothing the same about the new expansion. The AI is different. The setup is different.

If you’re saying all we get are kill, protection, guard and gather quests, well yes, that’s what there is to get in pretty much every game everywhere. Maybe rescue too.

But it’s how these things are provided. It’s like action movies and romantic comedies. They’ve all be done before. It’s how you do them that makes all the difference. You may not personally like how they’re done in HoT, but my experience in HoT is very differetn from say Dry Top or Orr.

I wasn’t talking about the expansion. Whatever gave you that idea. An expansion isn’t an “iteration”. I was talking about “same content”, it’s right up there in the post you quoted. Not “new content”, i.e. the expansion.

I was talking about revamp after revamp of the original content. Four ways of doing traits, the butchery and resurrection of the personal story. And it wasn’t original launch content, but consider Fractals: original release, “Fractured”, 50 levels, 100 levels, upcoming reward and higher level stat rebalancing. Let’s iterate some more!

There are many more instances, across the entire game, of “same content, new rewards”. Even the “precursor hunts” turned out to fall squarely into that category and that actually was part of the expansion. It’s quite ludicrous, having to pay to get more rewards for the same content. I’d sooner pay for the opposite: new content with the same reward. Because, new content is entertaining. Rewards are meaningless without the entertainment that should be part of the pursuit of them.

So what you’re really complaining about is that Guild Wars 2 is making content redoable when in most MMOs you do the content once and never do it again. I see.

Because there’s no real reason to go back to old dungeons in most games. You get what you get and never see it again. An expansion comes out, if your’e lucky you get a month or two out of it, and then you hit the brakes for a year or two until the next expansion comes out.

Making that content something people can do again is actually smart. Because some people really like that content.

I love jumping puzzles. I’ll take any excuse to do one. Hell I do them without an excuse. So if there’s something that gives me a reason to go do them, I’m a happy camper.

You seem to be laboring under the assumption that giving people stuff to do is bad somehow. Because there’s no way in the world they can give us enough new stuff to do.

I have a guy in my guild that plays WoW. Every time an expansion comes out he’s gone for about six weeks. Then he unsubs and waits for the next expansion to come out.

He plays this game more than WoW, even though WoW expansions are bigger, because the entire world can be revisited.

That’s actually progress in this genre.

“laboring under the assumption that giving people stuff to do is bad”

You are really priceless. My complaint is exactly the opposite, as anyone with shred of reading comprehension could easily pick up on: they don’t give stuff to do, with their “iterations”. Time and time again, they’ve presented us with exactly the same stuff in a new dress and call it fancy names to make it look new. With HoT they even made us pay for it in cash instead of time spent in the game. It’s shameless.

Also, I believe a lot of people would be a lot happier with the game right now if they hadn’t messed with the dungeons at HoT release. No one is going back to that. What’s next? Waiting for another “iteration”?

But you’re excluding HoT, in which they did indeed give us stuff to do. New zones, new events, new AI, even a new raid, new minigames. That’s all stuff to do mate. You said you were excluding HoT and talking about the core game.

And you imply I have bad reading comprehension.

You can’t have it both ways. Exclude HoT when you want to talk about repetition and the forget about it, when you want to talk about not getting new stuff. Either HoT isn’t part of your argument or it is. You can’t have it both ways. Exclude it or include it. Make up your mind.

Jeez man, get a clue.

Let me break it down for you.

ANet has been repackaging the core content again and again, for years. This, I think, is not a good thing.

HoT continues this trend of repackaging the core game’s content. This, I think, is an even worse thing.

HoT also introduces some completely new things. (Things I don’t like, but that’s a different discussion.) Because these new things are not repackaged core game content, they fall outside of the scope of my argument.

Is it really that hard?

Self serving circular arguments are always easy. I’m pretty sure we’re done here. It’s quite easy to see that you’re only interested in finding ways to refute what I say. And I’m pretty sure everyone can see it.

Yes, probably everyone. That one poster can’t be the only one who noticed how terribly you’re missing the point.

You’re not saying anything I need to refute, because you’ve yet to bring up anything that even touches upon my point.

I’ve never said they don’t add new content. They do. I explicitly acknowledged that HoT adds new stuff. All of that has been beyond question from the get-go. Yet you keep babbling about it as if it’s a new gospel that I’ve been ignorant of.

My complaint is about the continual repacking of old content that they’ve been doing over the years. I don’t like that. Especially the “iterations” that made things worse. New content doesn’t make that nuisance go away or make it irrelevant to talk about. Four new areas don’t excuse the slaughtering (and incredibly tardy resurrection) of the personal story. Guild halls don’t erase the NPE mess from history. Elite specialization don’t take away from the fact that the hunts for the original precursors hardly bring anything new to the table.

Smoosh.2718:

Quoting your own manifesto carried out in 2011, you stated (sorry Colin for dropping you in here) ‘We just dont want players to grind in Guild Wars 2’.
The old way of making legendary weapons was fine, so why was there a need to go completely over the top with the time gating of materials along with a stupidly high number of the same material you can only make one of per day, just for the new precursors. Surely with a system like this in place you should remove the daily craft restriction on all T7 materials.

Looking at the new list of what is needed for the new legendary weapons this is the most grindy thing I’ve seen in this game, which goes against the 2011 statement on what direction you guys wanted this game to go in.

https://youtu.be/FU1JUwPqzQY?t=1m22s

People think game is not grindy,just because Arena Net say so,and usually fanboys will respond with : “well,no one forces you to grind if you do not want to”

Manifesto fell off the table. Honestly, that table’s been holding everything for years now… something had to go.

What about this promise not so long ago were we were told no new tiers of gear would be added to invalidate all our hard work at 16.40.
They then proceed to add a new tier of armor LEGENDARY.
And lock most of us out of ever having best in slot again.
Lies to get our money then ignore the complaints.
wtf has anet turned into.

Legendary armor was always in the cards as another long-term carrot. It does not, however, qualify as a new tier, which would require its stats to be better than Ascended.

well what about the best in slot promise made at the same time at pax south.are you going to claim legendary is not the best in slot.some times i wonder if anet dont hire some of these forum posters that try to argue the absurd.

eldrin.6471:

are you going to claim legendary is not the best in slot.

Well legendary are best in slot, but so are ascended. What’s your point?

some people say kitten tastes just like chocolate.