Guild Wars 2

So, when I was looking through the mastery lines, I found what seems like a reference to a map not yet announced, Auric Basin. Maybe it isn’t, but it seems like it to me.

If it does have 3 maps or even 4, since I bought it a few weeks back, I’ll play it do the storyline kill the dragon, then uninstall and pretend I never heard the name Guild Wars 1 and 2.

We know there are at least two maps, and most likely at least 3. There may be more…that we don’t know. Those still saying there is only 1 map, are wrong. Not a guess, we know there’s more than one map because we’ve been told so.

According to the latest data-mining, it seems we will have 4 maps included with Heart of Thorns (possibly/probably? at release), at least. Whether there are more at release, or not, is speculation. Whether more maps will be released with further updates, again, is unknown.

Good luck.

Hybarf Tics.2048:

If it does have 3 maps or even 4, since I bought it a few weeks back, I’ll play it do the storyline kill the dragon, then uninstall and pretend I never heard the name Guild Wars 1 and 2.

Geez, if you hate it so much just get a refund and forget about it now.

They’ve been saying a few times that the new maps “feel bigger” and have more verticality… Therefore I don’t expect them to come out and say it’s going to be half the size of the current world, even if it’s the price of the full game.

I think it’s going to be only 2 maps, with a new city map and perhaps an instanced smaller third map as story closure.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

According to the latest data-mining, it seems we will have 4 maps included with Heart of Thorns (possibly/probably? at release), at least. Whether there are more at release, or not, is speculation. Whether more maps will be released with further updates, again, is unknown.

Good luck.

The question is, are those different maps, or just areas within the map?

After all, each map is divided into named areas. This could have been a similar idea here. Do we know for sure these are actually MAP names and not just area names within a single map?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

According to the latest data-mining, it seems we will have 4 maps included with Heart of Thorns (possibly/probably? at release), at least. Whether there are more at release, or not, is speculation. Whether more maps will be released with further updates, again, is unknown.

Good luck.

if these 4 maps are multilayered and sized similarly to the full verdant brink map, i can’t see it being fair to expect more (in terms of maps), unless you want to wait a couple yrs for HOT.

i’d be fine w/ just 3 of these at release. baring bugged event chains stalling out, there appears to be alot to do/explore.

any less would likely be disappointing (since they already got my money), unless the “challenging group content” makes up the difference.

Relshdan.6854:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

According to the latest data-mining, it seems we will have 4 maps included with Heart of Thorns (possibly/probably? at release), at least. Whether there are more at release, or not, is speculation. Whether more maps will be released with further updates, again, is unknown.

Good luck.

if these 4 maps are multilayered and sized similarly to the full verdant brink map, i can’t see it being fair to expect more (in terms of maps), unless you want to wait a couple yrs for HOT.

i’d be fine w/ just 3 of these at release. baring bugged event chains stalling out, there appears to be alot to do/explore.

any less would likely be disappointing (since they already got my money), unless the “challenging group content” makes up the difference.

One of the data mined maps is called Dragon’s Stand. Wanna bet thats Mordremoth, and that is the challenging content?

Well maybe not, or maybe not just that, but still…..

Seriously, where are people getting the idea that there will only be 3 maps? I’ve looked extensively and have yet to find anything even remotely close to this. All I’ve found so far is ANet saying that maps will have 3 explorable layers. How does this translate to there only being 3 maps?

Morfedel.4165:

Relshdan.6854:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

According to the latest data-mining, it seems we will have 4 maps included with Heart of Thorns (possibly/probably? at release), at least. Whether there are more at release, or not, is speculation. Whether more maps will be released with further updates, again, is unknown.

Good luck.

if these 4 maps are multilayered and sized similarly to the full verdant brink map, i can’t see it being fair to expect more (in terms of maps), unless you want to wait a couple yrs for HOT.

i’d be fine w/ just 3 of these at release. baring bugged event chains stalling out, there appears to be alot to do/explore.

any less would likely be disappointing (since they already got my money), unless the “challenging group content” makes up the difference.

One of the data mined maps is called Dragon’s Stand. Wanna bet thats Mordremoth, and that is the challenging content?

Well maybe not, or maybe not just that, but still…..

might be…..and could be interesting depending on what it is. an instanced map….much larger than a dungeon, but much smaller than something like southsun, designed for maybe five 5-man parties (anet seems stuck on this). could even be Mordremoth’s body itself that you’re traversing.

taking some of the successful concepts from the marionette event (objectives designed for multiple group sizes w/ each effecting overall success/failure) and remove the automated “handholding” /rng group splitting. the 25 players have to figure out how to best group/split up to solve the multiple objectives (maybe there are time limits, maybe not) that eventually lead to/effect a final battle w/ Mordremoth.

if done well, i’d take that over an open-world map

Berelious.3290:

Seriously, where are people getting the idea that there will only be 3 maps? I’ve looked extensively and have yet to find anything even remotely close to this. All I’ve found so far is ANet saying that maps will have 3 explorable layers. How does this translate to there only being 3 maps?

i think its a bit of tempered expectations/ generic forum pessimism, and either Colin or Peters answering a question about the approach to explorable maps in HOT w/ something like “we’re focusing on less overall maps, but having each map denser and layered vertically”.

Berelious.3290:

Seriously, where are people getting the idea that there will only be 3 maps? I’ve looked extensively and have yet to find anything even remotely close to this. All I’ve found so far is ANet saying that maps will have 3 explorable layers. How does this translate to there only being 3 maps?

It’s in the Holy Book of Number of Maps.

“First shalt thou take out the Holy Blog Post, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then makest thou a forum post declaring that the number of maps be three.”

More seriously though, it probably has to do with the number of biomes being 3. A lot of people either don’t know what a biome is or they remember seeing the number 3 and that it was referring to maps.

Diovid.9506:

No, all we know is that there will be at least 2 zones and that each zone has 3 biomes.

No. Colin said last week in the livestream, that the maps/zones will be large, but not every zone/map will have three biomes.

Just start preparing yourselves for the worst. 4 maps data mined, this can be it. Exactly why i didn’t pre-purchase, you can’t trust nowadays AN.

So what number of maps would it take before people recognized you’re going to burn through them ALL in a couple of weeks anyway?

Most maps are single use content. People get offended at having to do them again on alts they are so play-once-and-done. The size of the real estate is not a meaningful measurement of the quantity/quality of enduring entertainment being offered, so counting maps as if its a guide to how well the expansion is going to entertain its pretty silly, really.

Zok.4956:

Diovid.9506:

No, all we know is that there will be at least 2 zones and that each zone has 3 biomes.

No. Colin said last week in the livestream, that the maps/zones will be large, but not every zone/map will have three biomes.

Yea, I’ve read that. That is new information though. Or rather new clarification.

Still, from what he said it seems to imply that there are at least 2 maps with the 3 biomes and at least 2 maps without the 3 biomes.

wasted.6817:

Just start preparing yourselves for the worst. 4 maps data mined, this can be it. Exactly why i didn’t pre-purchase, you can’t trust nowadays AN.

And this means absolutely nothing, zilch, bupkis. With the expansion still in development and being beta tested, we have no idea if more maps are coming, or if the maps datamined will even be kept. Until an announcement is made we have nothing but speculation, and badly interpreted speculation at that.

I think the area below is the lower part of the expansion, I made red lines using data-mined areas. We don’t know if the expansion will move further north or not but if it only goes south and expecting they won’t change the world map, the red borders could very well be the new zone borders.

So are “maps” and “zones” the same thing? Or is one a part of the other (like Queensdale is a part of Kryta)?

I would be perfectly happy with one Silverwastes-style, Kryta-sized area in HoT. Whether they chop this up into three large maps or ten tiny ones, this is still potentially a large area of land to explore. Add in the multiple layers and gliding, and there’s going to be TONS to do.

In the beta test, only the middle layer of Verdant Brink was available for exploration (if you switched to “upper” or “lower” levels on the world map, VB would disappear). It had a somewhat limited surface level at first with all the cliffs and ravines. Most cliff tops were accessible eventually with jumping or gliding, so it wasn’t wasted land. Once gliding is fully mastered, I’d imagine these cliffs would be lots of fun to navigate. The ravines were huge gaps in usable space, but they were interesting to look at and glide around in, and eventually they will lead to the lower level (roots) that wasn’t available in the beta. I didn’t really see any distant upper level in the beta tested section of VB, but we were at the very edge of the jungle, so that makes some sense. The treetop canopy will likely be more obvious the further we adventure in. My guess is that it will be similar in design to the top levels of The Grove, with the twisting pathways and looooong drops to the ground, except MUCH bigger and with access to gliding.

Verdant Brink is just the first map. We can assume (via datamined info) that a large portion of Magus Falls will be opened up at some point following the release of HoT. (I was under the impression that Maguuma Wastes was going to be opened in the expansion, but I don’t remember if I heard this somewhere or just made a guess.) It looks like much of the new area will be gated behind masteries (gliding to reach higher sections, language to unlock new areas, etc), which will keep things fresher longer and give us something to work towards. Other areas might be held back for plot purposes and released after HoT launch hype wears down or after completing certain objectives in game.

Taellan.3654:

So are “maps” and “zones” the same thing? Or is one a part of the other (like Queensdale is a part of Kryta)?

When discussing GW2, the terms ‘map’ and ‘zone’ are usually used synonymously i.e. they are both used to describe an area such as Queensdale or Timberline Falls.

An area such as Kryta or Orr is referred to as a ‘region’.

Considering that they seem to be adding the absolute minimum amount of content possible to justify calling it an expansion (1 weapon for lucky professions, 2/5ths for less lucky, 1 ultimate each, 1 new trait line, 1 set of utility skills associated with that trait line, 1 new profession…) I wouldn’t be too surprised if it’s just 3. I’ll be rightfully disappointed tho.

Only time will tell how many maps we are getting.. on my thought on getting three.

It all depends really, how big are the maps, how Much content is packed into one, how is revisiting incentivized, are there map specific armor/weapons, or any map specific rewards at all that we will have the opportunity to work for, do bits and pieces of the legendaries coming with the expansion have anything to do with the maps. It’s too tough to say how I feel about only getting three

The number though, is very low, I expected to see more, 6-8 was what I was hoping for (trying really hard to be fair with those numbers, of course I’d like to see a map the size of gw2 map as is …lol..) and if we look at guild wars 1 expansions, saying we will only get three is just ridiculous. How many maps did we get there, you know? Continents lol.

What I think will happen is we will get 3 or 4 (I’m saying 4 because of the data mined rewards tracks points to four) and we will get possibly another 4 rolled out through living story throughout the year.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Considering that they seem to be adding the absolute minimum amount of content possible to justify calling it an expansion (1 weapon for lucky professions, 2/5ths for less lucky, 1 ultimate each, 1 new trait line, 1 set of utility skills associated with that trait line, 1 new profession…) I wouldn’t be too surprised if it’s just 3. I’ll be rightfully disappointed tho.

I agree with what you said about the maps, but regarding the new profession and base classes, not so much.

The elite specializations I feel were something completely unexpected to ever happen. When everyone was asking for the expansion. Starting way before it was ever announced, who ever said " you know. It would be great If they made it possible to turn my base class into another class " (some argument can be made here with gw1 system of dual class.) But this really came out of no where, and although it may not seem like much, we are getting one brand new class. To make a total of nine professions. Really I dint think I want to see them ever release a tenth, it’s not necessary at this point, and with the elite spec system, any role / idea anet comes up with can easily be distributed out through the elite spec system.

So we have nine classes. One of those new to the expansion. And 1 elite spec for all 9. So… That’s nine classes nine elite specs. The elite specs have less to offer then a fully fleshed out profession, yeah I agree, but still offer every class a new way of play, a new way to build, and a new overarching theme to go along with it which can only be unlocked at lvl 80. Most of us already have lvl 80s where we want them, so it’ll just feel like something that’s added base to the game. But there meant to give the game some progressions past lvl 80, New benefits to actually hitting the cap. And I think that’s great ( shoulda waited before getting all toons to 80 tho .-. Would have been much more rewarding.)

Idk I feel like when it comes to tweaking the professions/ giving us something new, they hit the mark perfectly by giving us that last heavy armor, while filling all niches, and giving every base profession something to freshen up there game play and give us all something to look forward to while setting up a system to role out even more elite specs In the future.

My realistic dream for map # 6-8

Edit: bad grammar, had to fix.

I would be bitterly disappointed of we get less playable area than one of the vanilla regions by which I mean, Ascalon, Kryta, Shiverpeaks, etc. and a comparable number of maps. From what I’ve seen, the triple-layered biomes don’t actually mean triple the land space, as there are kittening great gaps all over the place, making the three fit together a bit like a jigsaw. I am hoping that Verdant Brink is an extreme example and that other maps will have more conventionally traversable terrain in each biome.

I strongly suspect that I will in fact be bitterly disappointed.

Berelious.3290:

And this means absolutely nothing, zilch, bupkis. With the expansion still in development and being beta tested, we have no idea if more maps are coming, or if the maps datamined will even be kept. Until an announcement is made we have nothing but speculation, and badly interpreted speculation at that.

This means, there’s a chance, not exactly a small one either, that 4 is gonna be it. And thus it would be wiser to prepare for that, so you won’t go gaga when it’s confirmed. All i’am saying.

Some doubts and concerns are justified by what we know about how other HoT content is being released. We know legendaries are being added over time. The story will be released over time. So that leaves some very valid concerns over what else will be subject to staggered releases.

We do have information stating that there are multiple maps. We also know that not all of the maps will have 3 biomes, which will reduce the playable area of HoT to less than what their hype suggests. What we lack is any indication of how many of those will be available at launch, or at some point after.

The fact that Anet isn’t showing off parts of these maps, or at least telling us something about them, makes me suspect that they either won’t be ready at launch or Anet knows they aren’t enough to justify HoT’s price tag.

mrstealth.6701:

The fact that Anet isn’t showing off parts of these maps, or at least telling us something about them, makes me suspect that they either won’t be ready at launch or Anet knows they aren’t enough to justify HoT’s price tag.

This is exactly what is setting alarm bells ringing for me. It’s not what they’re showing me that’s making me apprehencive, it’s what they aren’t showing me.

Most companies want to create as much of a song and dance over their stuff as possible. If they have a plethora of maps, mechanics and have truly taken them all a step further in replayability with multiple layers why aren’t they letting everyone who hasn’t pre-purchased see them?

There’s no better way to drive up sales than to let prospective customers get a feel for something, to try a little bit and leave them wanting more. They’re selling it as an expansion with an up front price tag, I expect things up front not added weeks, months or years later, that is what the gem store is for.

apharma.3741:

Most companies want to create as much of a song and dance over their stuff as possible. If they have a plethora of maps, mechanics and have truly taken them all a step further in replayability with multiple layers why aren’t they letting everyone who hasn’t pre-purchased see them?

They did let some have a short preview during stress tests this spring. I think the area pre-purchasers got in BWE1 was the same as in the 2nd stress test. I’ve not seen much BWE footage, so I don’t know about any added events that weren’t in the stress test.

My impression from the stress tests was fairly good. The events seemed like a natural progression of events from the core game, Dry Top, and Silverwastes. An improvement, but nothing available at that time seemed groundbreaking or game-changing. Though, areas a bit farther away from, or in-between, the content outposts did look underutilized. Some spots did seem like they were intended for events that weren’t added in yet, or just weren’t active at the time. While other areas were taken up by narrow passes and cliffs/canyons that didn’t seem likely to have events beyond an escort passing through. This could very well be intentional, to keep the starting area from being overly busy and encourage venturing out.

However, good first impression aside, this was still just a very brief preview of 25% of a single map. The one discouraging thing I did notice was a definite lack in biome overlap. Various parts of the map seemed to transition between canopy and floor, more than having the two overlap each other. Hopefully other areas will have more, but I have the feeling that we’ll see a lot more map covered by 1-2 biomes than 3.

The whole thing also didn’t do anything to help the overall lack of information. The area beyond that 25% of 1 map is still a mystery. These betas just give a taste of the new style of events.

meeflak.9714:

Fred Fargone.3127:

Considering that they seem to be adding the absolute minimum amount of content possible to justify calling it an expansion (1 weapon for lucky professions, 2/5ths for less lucky, 1 ultimate each, 1 new trait line, 1 set of utility skills associated with that trait line, 1 new profession…) I wouldn’t be too surprised if it’s just 3. I’ll be rightfully disappointed tho.

I agree with what you said about the maps, but regarding the new profession and base classes, not so much.

The elite specializations I feel were something completely unexpected to ever happen. When everyone was asking for the expansion. Starting way before it was ever announced, who ever said " you know. It would be great If they made it possible to turn my base class into another class " (some argument can be made here with gw1 system of dual class.) But this really came out of no where, and although it may not seem like much, we are getting one brand new class. To make a total of nine professions. Really I dint think I want to see them ever release a tenth, it’s not necessary at this point, and with the elite spec system, any role / idea anet comes up with can easily be distributed out through the elite spec system.

So we have nine classes. One of those new to the expansion. And 1 elite spec for all 9. So… That’s nine classes nine elite specs. The elite specs have less to offer then a fully fleshed out profession, yeah I agree, but still offer every class a new way of play, a new way to build, and a new overarching theme to go along with it which can only be unlocked at lvl 80. Most of us already have lvl 80s where we want them, so it’ll just feel like something that’s added base to the game. But there meant to give the game some progressions past lvl 80, New benefits to actually hitting the cap. And I think that’s great ( shoulda waited before getting all toons to 80 tho .-. Would have been much more rewarding.)

Idk I feel like when it comes to tweaking the professions/ giving us something new, they hit the mark perfectly by giving us that last heavy armor, while filling all niches, and giving every base profession something to freshen up there game play and give us all something to look forward to while setting up a system to role out even more elite specs In the future.

My realistic dream for map # 6-8

Edit: bad grammar, had to fix.

Well, I play an elementalist. The new mechanic for ele was okey, but didn’t really revolutionize the class, I’m afraid. It’d be a nice extra if the pile of new content already was satisfactory. But as things are right now, I just don’t feel that way.

Usually when anet releases expansions, there have been 2 new professions, 2 free character slots, an entirely new continent to explore and some 100-200 new skills. Getting 1 new profession, zero character slots (the expansion itself doesn’t give character slots, owning the basegame before x date before purchasing the expansion gave 1.) and just a tiny chunk of map… that just feels like Anet is betraying their earlier standards. And yes, I know, it’s entirely up to them to decide how much content they put in an expansion. However, it’s entirely up to me to be disappointed when I feel there is nowhere near enough new content.

Vayne.8563:

IIvIIozzie.9250:

Torolan.5816:

stuff

You fail to understand your opposition’s argument. Southsun wasn’t a fail because the content was too hard, it was a fail because the content was buggy, laggy, boring and unrewarding. While no longer buggy and laggy as it used to be, Anet put no QoL into the zone, they left it to rot. Raising the HP on enemy mobs to make it more “difficult” is just lazy on the part of the developers. They claim to have challenging content in the expansion, we’ll see. If their recent updates are any indication for what’s in store many players will be disappointed, myself included.

In my opinion, people didn’t start complaining about the content delivery system until Anet was pestered into making an expansion from the stuff they were working on for the Living World. Anet had to change gears and hold the content that would have been delivered more regularly for content that will have to come in an expansion. The most common complaint I heard about content from LS Season 1 was that it was coming too fast.

You guys have a really short memory apparently.

the balance in delivery is all wrong.
expansion is not supposed to be opposed to version updates its supposed to be in conjunction.

heres how most handle it well

new content monthly
major content trimonthly
expansion every 1-2 years (totally new plotlines, major character additions, new proffesions, new areas to explore)

anet is like 2 week pace stop for a month 2 week pace stop for 2 months, 2 week pace stop for 3 months 2 week pace stop for 8 months
expansion made from living story bits.

their release, pacing and work flow isnt a good pattern for a service

Morfedel.4165:

Hybarf Tics.2048:

If it does have 3 maps or even 4, since I bought it a few weeks back, I’ll play it do the storyline kill the dragon, then uninstall and pretend I never heard the name Guild Wars 1 and 2.

Geez, if you hate it so much just get a refund and forget about it now.

Considering the original game had 30 maps including cities. Verdant Brink based on the wiki version of it is simply the ground level map. For the sake of argument you take that map and add the other 2 layers, even with the 3 layers a HOT map such as this is no more than one and a half GW 2 map. If you take 4 maps like another poster claimed it would give us the equivalent of no more than 6 GW 2 maps, which is barely 20% of the original map. For a normal expansion which means 10 to 15 maps of the original we would need 7 to 10 Hot maps. About what you said I don’t hate the game I love it but I simply dislike being taken for a ride and 4 maps would make me feel like I was taken on one.

For 35 years I’ve been playing consoles and PC games, now it’s only PC and to me an expansion based on everything I’ve seen and played, has always been one third to one half of an original map, any less than one third and it’s not considered an expansion. Some people won’t even consider less than 50% of an original game, depending on price and HOT is a good 85% of the original price, so spare me the fanboy acceptance of everything done by Anet, if it really turns out to be 4 maps than this expansion is worth no more than 20$ US dollars.

mrstealth.6701:

However, good first impression aside, this was still just a very brief preview of 25% of a single map. The one discouraging thing I did notice was a definite lack in biome overlap. Various parts of the map seemed to transition between canopy and floor, more than having the two overlap each other. Hopefully other areas will have more, but I have the feeling that we’ll see a lot more map covered by 1-2 biomes than 3.

The whole thing also didn’t do anything to help the overall lack of information. The area beyond that 25% of 1 map is still a mystery. These betas just give a taste of the new style of events.

You should look at the wiki where they show the whole 100% of ground level layer.
You have to consider that BWE 1 did not include root and canopy layers we played only say one third of the ground level map which Anet stated was 25% of the whole Verdant Brink map.

Hybarf Tics.2048:

You should look at the wiki where they show the whole 100% of ground level layer.
You have to consider that BWE 1 did not include root and canopy layers we played only say one third of the ground level map which Anet stated was 25% of the whole Verdant Brink map.

Some of that area certainly wasn’t what I’d consider floor biome, but if it was purely floor it does nothing to inspire confidence. There wasn’t much to be seen overhead for a canopy biome to exist in. And if the 25% number is accurate, then it seems likely that the canopy biome doesn’t exist in that part Verdant Brink, or is very limited. The other 25% of that half of Verdant Brink will probably be the roots biome. If canopy does exist there, then it’s sharing a percentage with roots, meaning that neither of those will be a full-map biome.

If the canopy is only the absolute highest areas (even above the highest we’ve seen in beta), then I really doubt that biome will amount to much anywhere. With the high cliffs and a hylek village in the tree tops still being floor, it doesn’t leave much left for the canopy.

The content outposts are likely concentrated in the floor biome, so that’s where the majority of everything can be expected to be. I expect the other biomes to be used, but my guess is that will be something like how the roots biome in Silverwastes is now.

This “1 is 3” hype is probably going to turn out to be just that. Hype. It’s only 3x the content if the biomes are equally utilized and cover equal portions of the map.

We can’t expect the maps to be equally proportioned, canopys can’t be 33% of a map, so what we’ll see might be 30% root, 50% ground, 20% canopy as an example. I do know this however being an ex fanboy of Anet, if this expansion truly is 4 maps even some present day fanbot defending HOT right now will be desapointed and feel ripped off regardless of what else was added to the game. They simply don’t know it yet afterall 4 maps is not yet a fact. I hope that this pic below is not all it is because even if those were to be worth 2 GW 2 maps, it still would be the equivalent of 8 maps for 50$, fool me once…
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/200213/Tyria_map__clean_.jpg

Hybarf Tics.2048:

We can’t expect the maps to be equally proportioned, canopys can’t be 33% of a map, so what we’ll see might be 30% root, 50% ground, 20% canopy as an example.

That’s on the more optimistic side of what I’m expecting. The canopy is obviously going to be the lightest biome, but was hoping roots would at least be close to equal with the main floor biome. But that does seem less likely that it has in the past.

I never expected all three to be equal, but it’s certainly the idea the hype attempts to give.

I like ANet’s track record:

• Every time I’ve purchased a game, expansion, or “campaign” from them they’ve delivered a core product that has provided 100s of hours of solid entertainment.
• In addition, they provide frequent content/story and balance/mechanics updates at no additional costs.

I don’t care in the least if it’s 3 legendaries or 40, 3 maps or 50. I only care about whether it’s fun and challenging and based on past performance, it seems likely that’s what we will get yet again.

I agree that numbers of maps is not equal to quality or entertainment of the expansion.

However i personally love exploring. And if i have 4 maps, there is no doubt that i will explore less that if i had 10.

4 maps are lacking on exploration entertainment, i will devoure that quick. Even the areas of the map blocked by masteries.
But lets wait, the 25% of the central lair of verdant brink (what we could test on BWE1) is really good imo, so maybe 4 maps is enough, time will tell.

I just preferred 10 rather than 4, thought.

Silicato.4603:

…However i personally love exploring. And if i have 4 maps, there is no doubt that i will explore less that if i had 10.

4 maps are lacking on exploration entertainment, i will devoure that quick. Even the areas of the map blocked by masteries.
But lets wait, the 25% of the central lair of verdant brink (what we could test on BWE1) is really good imo, so maybe 4 maps is enough, time will tell.

I just preferred 10 rather than 4, thought.

I think the problem people are having with the whole 3-4 maps thing is that they are only thinking 2 dimensionally. Many (if not all) of the 3-4 maps will have more than one layer. This means that technically each map could be the equivalent space of 2-3 maps, just that they will be layered on top of each other rather than side by side. So it may end up being that we get 6-12 maps worth of exploration in the same X and Y footprint of 3-4 maps.

We will just have to wait and see how much exploration there is to do, but I am sure Anet will not disappoint in that regard.

Silicato.4603:

I agree that numbers of maps is not equal to quality or entertainment of the expansion.

However i personally love exploring. And if i have 4 maps, there is no doubt that i will explore less that if i had 10.

4 maps are lacking on exploration entertainment, i will devoure that quick. Even the areas of the map blocked by masteries.
But lets wait, the 25% of the central lair of verdant brink (what we could test on BWE1) is really good imo, so maybe 4 maps is enough, time will tell.

I just preferred 10 rather than 4, thought.

From how I understand it HoT maps will be great for explorers because you won’t be able to explore the map on your first try. You have to move on, gather more mastery points, then come back later to explore parts you couldn’t reach before. Also, what does the number of maps has to do with how good it will be to explore? Size of maps, multiple layers, mastery requirements and others are what is important for exploring the new maps, their number isn’t.

They really need an additional work pipeline; one group who will work on the expansion, and the other for the live version (living story, upgrades/changes, in-game and community events, etc.) Right now, it’s like they can only do one at a time. So Living Story season3 after expansion release. Then when will you start working on expansion 2 (if ever GW2 reaches that point).

maddoctor.2738:

Silicato.4603:

I agree that numbers of maps is not equal to quality or entertainment of the expansion.

However i personally love exploring. And if i have 4 maps, there is no doubt that i will explore less that if i had 10.

4 maps are lacking on exploration entertainment, i will devoure that quick. Even the areas of the map blocked by masteries.
But lets wait, the 25% of the central lair of verdant brink (what we could test on BWE1) is really good imo, so maybe 4 maps is enough, time will tell.

I just preferred 10 rather than 4, thought.

From how I understand it HoT maps will be great for explorers because you won’t be able to explore the map on your first try. You have to move on, gather more mastery points, then come back later to explore parts you couldn’t reach before. Also, what does the number of maps has to do with how good it will be to explore? Size of maps, multiple layers, mastery requirements and others are what is important for exploring the new maps, their number isn’t.

part of the limitations of map design is unique resources. Essentially loading times, ram etc, which is why having one huge map with no loading screens usually involves some hidden loading areas.
basically the variation per map is limited.

then you have the fact that some types of level design require space to achieve their goal.

also based on what has been said in this thread, it doesnt sound like all the maps will be 3 zones, and some of the upper and lower areas have a fraction of the explorable area.

fact is that while 3 dense 3 level zones can have more content than 9 barren zones. 9 realized ones can have more content than 3 dense zones as well. And variation wise, 9 zones can mechanically have greater variation than 3 dense zones can have due to loading assets.

phys.7689:

part of the limitations of map design is unique resources. Essentially loading times, ram etc, which is why having one huge map with no loading screens usually involves some hidden loading areas.
basically the variation per map is limited.

then you have the fact that some types of level design require space to achieve their goal.

also based on what has been said in this thread, it doesnt sound like all the maps will be 3 zones, and some of the upper and lower areas have a fraction of the explorable area.

fact is that while 3 dense 3 level zones can have more content than 9 barren zones. 9 realized ones can have more content than 3 dense zones as well. And variation wise, 9 zones can mechanically have greater variation than 3 dense zones can have due to loading assets.

They have been working on a lot of new tech for HoT lately, such as new skill mechanics and effects, so for all we know there may be new asset loading tech or other such things to help increase the size of each zone.

As to having a variety across different maps, there is nothing to say a 2-3 tiered zone cannot have variety. If anything, I think each tier has to be differnt to each other. If you take the basic 3 tier example we have been given so far (canopy, jungle floor, roots), each tier could have a vastly different feel and playstyle to them.

For size, you only have to look at the Silverwastes to see what they are capable of putting in to a relatively small X & Z footprint.

If the total playable space we get in HoT is not that much and doesn’t keep us entertained for that long, then I too would be disappointed. But we will not know that until we get to play the full thing. But basing your disappointment on map count along is not a wise thing to do in my opinion, as it will no longer be a true representation of scale in this game.

Rin.1046:

I think the problem people are having with the whole 3-4 maps thing is that they are only thinking 2 dimensionally. Many (if not all) of the 3-4 maps will have more than one layer. This means that technically each map could be the equivalent space of 2-3 maps, just that they will be layered on top of each other rather than side by side. So it may end up being that we get 6-12 maps worth of exploration in the same X and Y footprint of 3-4 maps.

I have to assume that you didn’t actually take part in the beta weekend, if you had then you couldn’t possibly come up with the idea that the “floor level” that we were playing at was even close to a full map of equivalent size; I’d say it was more like 50% of the usable area of a vanilla map … and that is, I think, being generous. So, let’s say that you get a generous double the usable area comparing HoT maps to vanilla (and seriously, I think that’s being super generous based on what I saw at the weekend) that still gives us the equivalent of 8 vanilla maps (assuming a comparable size … which is a large assumption) which is roughly half of the absolute minimum I would expect from a full expansion. Given the price tag I would expect to see the GW2 equivalent of WoW’s Burning Crusade, or Wrath of the Lich King; or GW1’s Nightfall, or Factions. Based on what we’ve seen (and datamined) thus far, it is looking as though we’ll actually be getting a fraction of that.

The thing is that if this expansion disappoints then people like me who purchased the legendary pack will be less likely to part with their money next time, not that we won’t buy future expansions necessarily but that we won’t pay a premium … we might even wait until it’s on offer … and that will hit future ANet right where it hurts.

The number maps will be enough that actually spending the time to train masteries is worthwhile and doesn’t feel like repeating content.

Since the glider line and the other masteries aren’t necessarily quickly unlocked, I can only assume that there will be at least four maps, most likely more.

If that’s too few? I don’t know what to tell you. The zones in GW2 are much more richly detailed than those in GW1 and generally have more content available compared to the space given. In GW1 you had patrolling NPCs and maybe some chests here and there, the distance in maps was artificial and served no real purpose apart from “x many enemies are between you and your goal”.

In GW2, there are different events in the same area, varying enemies, adventures, event chains, mini dungeons, jumping puzzles, friendly NPCs, various plot tie-ins, etc. A single zone in GW2 is worth 3-5 zones in GW1 imo. Besides, I don’t have any interesting memories from any single GW1 zone apart from the cities. There were too many and it often felt like a chore to get from one location to another. Even in GW:EN I couldn’t have cared less if there had been fewer maps than they gave to us.

Generally my opinion is that more maps is often just filler content than actual content and to focus upon actual content is to make the expansion the best product it can be.

I bet some people will see that HoT has fewer maps than they wanted to have and go into the expansion already disappointed rather than give it a chance to be worth their money. Personally, I’d ask people in general to be less pessimistic (honestly the forums have been full of doom & gloom for ages for no good reason) and to give the expansion a try before saying it’s terrible.

Personally I’ve enjoyed the small portion of Verdant Brink we’ve been shown so far as well as the Revenant and elite specs we got to try in the beta.

apharma.3741:

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

(PS The Verdant Brink map we’re getting today with beta is 25% of Verdant Brink itself, not the entire HoT maps)

I wouldn’t know because I didn’t pre purchase due to lack of info and I am not blessed by Zommy.

The info was in this blog post lol https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-first-beta-weekend-event-begins-august-7/

I think both sides have valid point. People that are disappointed it isn’t more regions with more variety have a point. People saying they are willing to spend $50 on a smaller x-pac have a point.

Here is an interesting picture from That Shaman, dating back to March 19th. Under Verdant Brinks is the probable location of the Guild Halls (and remember you have to get to the Guild Hall the first time and clear it out, so it’s not just the uncovered area but a whole map). Below and to the left is some visible gear icons and another icon.

Iason Evan.3806:

I think both sides have valid point. People that are disappointed it isn’t more regions with more variety have a point. People saying they are willing to spend $50 on a smaller x-pac have a point.

We have no idea if the xpac is “small” or even “smaller” yet. All we have are data-mined impressions of an incomplete .DAT file.

(That doesn’t invalidate your overall argument: people can be disappointed if they want to; it doesn’t have to be entirely based on evidence, since being hyped is all about one’s impressions, regardless of what the future will bring.)

Hybarf Tics.2048:

Morfedel.4165:

Hybarf Tics.2048:

If it does have 3 maps or even 4, since I bought it a few weeks back, I’ll play it do the storyline kill the dragon, then uninstall and pretend I never heard the name Guild Wars 1 and 2.

Geez, if you hate it so much just get a refund and forget about it now.

Considering the original game had 30 maps including cities. Verdant Brink based on the wiki version of it is simply the ground level map. For the sake of argument you take that map and add the other 2 layers, even with the 3 layers a HOT map such as this is no more than one and a half GW 2 map. If you take 4 maps like another poster claimed it would give us the equivalent of no more than 6 GW 2 maps, which is barely 20% of the original map. For a normal expansion which means 10 to 15 maps of the original we would need 7 to 10 Hot maps. About what you said I don’t hate the game I love it but I simply dislike being taken for a ride and 4 maps would make me feel like I was taken on one.

For 35 years I’ve been playing consoles and PC games, now it’s only PC and to me an expansion based on everything I’ve seen and played, has always been one third to one half of an original map, any less than one third and it’s not considered an expansion. Some people won’t even consider less than 50% of an original game, depending on price and HOT is a good 85% of the original price, so spare me the fanboy acceptance of everything done by Anet, if it really turns out to be 4 maps than this expansion is worth no more than 20$ US dollars.

I dont give fanboy acceptance of everything anet does. I’ve busted their chops on several things. However, I also won’t sit by and accept ridiculous comments like the one you made either.

Of course, feel free to make baseless accusations like fanboyisms to anyone who disagrees with you. That’s also known as ad hominem attacks. Here’s a link for a definition of it in case you are ignorant of its meaning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

The point I was making was that if you dislike it so much why bother even playing it?

And btw… it isnt just about maps. Its easy to say 4 maps isnt enough… but its also about how big the maps are, how much content is in it, how much mechanical differences there are, etc etc. Simply saying 4 maps is worth 20% doesnt even begin to address all the other elements that makes up the expansion… including the size and density of each map.

You may be right, there may be a scarcity of content, but simply saying “there’s only four maps” doesn’t begin to address the issue.

But way to go on the ad hominem attack.

3 maps?i will riot! >:o

I would not be shocked, but I would be a bit disappointed. I would expect them to commit to releasing plenty of additional maps, for free, over the course of the next couple years, more than they released between launch and HoT.