Guild Wars 2

It feels like aNet is selling us DLC, which is sadly far from expansion!
I expected bosses to be more challenging with new mechanics, not just CC bar, but actual AI (Artificial Intelligence) behaviour, they don’t hit hard enough to even force you to dodge, you can “in your face” all the dmg, but that’s not even the point. Static non-movement creatures are making me not even want to go in HoT PvE.

What i’m expecting from GW2 AI creatures:

• zoning mechanics
• area control mechanics
• special combinations to defeat enemy
• higher DPS from mobs to force people to dodge
• more Dry Top Coloque Queen mechanics
• non-static smart path finding and decision making
• faster damage target changing and applying more pressure on player
• NO MORE EASY CONTENT THAT I CAN ACCOMPLISH BY AFK-ING THE EVENT

Where is the content that they called challenging for “non-casual” players in HoT?
“Beautiful content is not enough for me, where are the AI-npc mechanics that were promised?, Artificial Intelligence of creatures is under expectation of 2015 era..”

With other words, I can hardly call this EXPANSION, when it looks more like DLC pack..

They haven’t gone into it yet, but it’s not something we’ve seen already. Whether you call this an expansion or not is largely irrelevant. It will change the way the game is played, in much the way an expansion would. The real test will be how many hours of play people get out of it.

I’ve played lots of MMO expansions in the past, some of which looked great on paper, but after a couple of months there was nothing.

How about we wait to see details before actually judging something.

Personally I gave up my hopes for challenging PvE for smaller groups in this game like 2 years ago, when they went for Scarlett instead of bringing back the Ring of Fire and Fissure of WoE type stuff.

They did have challenging blob events, like Teq or the Marionette, but no PvE content ever made it necessary to master your class.

Now seeing that HoT won’t even have dungeons I’m not sure what Anet’s intentions are for more hardcore PvE players. Dungeons fill MMO maps. Most MMO like ESO have 10+ explorable areas per maps and a longer dungeon on top of it. Adding new maps without dungeons is like having the container without the content. Sure it will sell, because it looks big, but will it keep people playing until the next expansion? I really doubt it.

Firelysm.4967:

It feels like aNet is selling us DLC, which is sadly far from expansion!
I expected bosses to be more challenging with new mechanics, not just CC bar, but actual AI (Artificial Intelligence) behaviour, they don’t hit hard enough to even force you to dodge, you can “in your face” all the dmg, but that’s not even the point. Static non-movement creatures are making me not even want to go in HoT PvE.

What i’m expecting from GW2 AI creatures:

• zoning mechanics
• area control mechanics
• special combinations to defeat enemy
• higher DPS from mobs to force people to dodge
• more Dry Top Coloque Queen mechanics
• non-static smart path finding and decision making
• faster damage target changing and applying more pressure on player
• NO MORE EASY CONTENT THAT I CAN ACCOMPLISH BY AFK-ING THE EVENT

Where is the content that they called challenging for “non-casual” players in HoT?
“Beautiful content is not enough for me, where are the AI-npc mechanics that were promised?, Artificial Intelligence of creatures is under expectation of 2015 era..”

With other words, I can hardly call this EXPANSION, when it looks more like DLC pack..

GW2 / challenging content.

The true issue here is that you want this game to be something it isn’t. It is aimed for casual players. Whenever they do create something challenging, it is tuned down so everyone can do it (Liadra for example).

There is also a very good reason. Experienced high level players rush through the content in a fast pace and never stick around long. They don’t go into role playing or dress-up games. The result is that they are not interesting as customers cause they just don’t spend much in the cashshop.

So if you want challenging content, GW2 is not your game.

What are the odds this beta revealed everything the expansion will bring? I didn’t play it, but by all reports I’ve seen this beta did not show that much.

I think challenging content was the wyvern and similar bosses.

Silicato.4603:

I think challenging content was the wyvern and similar bosses.

In the interview with MattVisual, CJ specifically said that the Wyvern wasn’t an example of the challenging content; just how world bosses would be like now:

…the Wyvern is just an example of a tough boss in the open world. It’s not a mega boss, it’s not some example of the challenging content we want you to do. It’s just an example of what world bosses are going to be like in HoT.

Source

Xillllix.3485:

Now seeing that HoT won’t even have dungeons I’m not sure what Anet’s intentions are for more hardcore PvE players. Dungeons fill MMO maps.

You got a source for that? I’ve seen a few people say it yet I can’t find anything on it myself.

The first stress test, they said they deliberately nerfed the bosses and they wouldnt make them the correct difficulty until live. Wyvern and bosses are prob an aspect, but we just havent seen their correct difficulty

Have you traveled back from the future having played through all the content of Heart of Thorns? If not then kindly stop whining about it.

Nobody outside of ANET has seen all the things that are planned for HoT. If you want to talk about what has been revealed then fine, but whinging and moaning about how HoT isn’t living up to your expectations of what an expansion is when it isn’t even out yet is stupid.

They haven’t revealed it yet. Just wait a bit.

CureForLiving.5360:

They haven’t revealed it yet. Just wait a bit.

best answer..no release, so why judge?

IndigoSundown.5419:

What are the odds this beta revealed everything the expansion will bring? I didn’t play it, but by all reports I’ve seen this beta did not show that much.

It clearly didn’t reveal everything.
We only could play the top layer (canopy). When jumping down we would land on a black floor of death. If reports are correct, there are two more layers below. the playable area was bordered by the red-diagonals (also common in instances). looking at the location of the map name, it seemed to be 40% of the map. So only 1 out of three layers, and only 40%. In total we only had access to bout 15% of the entire map

Firelysm.4967:

It feels like aNet is selling us DLC, which is sadly far from expansion!
I expected bosses to be more challenging with new mechanics, not just CC bar, but actual AI (Artificial Intelligence) behaviour, they don’t hit hard enough to even force you to dodge, you can “in your face” all the dmg, but that’s not even the point. Static non-movement creatures are making me not even want to go in HoT PvE.

What i’m expecting from GW2 AI creatures:

• zoning mechanics
• area control mechanics
• special combinations to defeat enemy
• higher DPS from mobs to force people to dodge
• more Dry Top Coloque Queen mechanics
• non-static smart path finding and decision making
• faster damage target changing and applying more pressure on player
• NO MORE EASY CONTENT THAT I CAN ACCOMPLISH BY AFK-ING THE EVENT

Where is the content that they called challenging for “non-casual” players in HoT?
“Beautiful content is not enough for me, where are the AI-npc mechanics that were promised?, Artificial Intelligence of creatures is under expectation of 2015 era..”

With other words, I can hardly call this EXPANSION, when it looks more like DLC pack..

One questions: Where is HoT?

Firelysm.4967:

It feels like aNet is selling us DLC, which is sadly far from expansion!
I expected bosses to be more challenging with new mechanics, not just CC bar, but actual AI (Artificial Intelligence) behaviour, they don’t hit hard enough to even force you to dodge, you can “in your face” all the dmg, but that’s not even the point. Static non-movement creatures are making me not even want to go in HoT PvE.

What i’m expecting from GW2 AI creatures:

• zoning mechanics
• area control mechanics
• special combinations to defeat enemy
• higher DPS from mobs to force people to dodge
• more Dry Top Coloque Queen mechanics
• non-static smart path finding and decision making
• faster damage target changing and applying more pressure on player
• NO MORE EASY CONTENT THAT I CAN ACCOMPLISH BY AFK-ING THE EVENT

Where is the content that they called challenging for “non-casual” players in HoT?
“Beautiful content is not enough for me, where are the AI-npc mechanics that were promised?, Artificial Intelligence of creatures is under expectation of 2015 era..”

With other words, I can hardly call this EXPANSION, when it looks more like DLC pack..

Wow! I know there are players who rush through new content but here is someone who has compleated the whole expac before it has been released! Awesome!

Silicato.4603:

I think challenging content was the wyvern and similar bosses.

They stated otherwise. Directly.

Challenging content? …..

After the NPE and its resulting portrayal of what ArenaNet feels new players are capable of, which is next to nothing, how can you have so much faith in anything “challenging”?

the challenge is convincing yourself the content is worth playing through. can it be done? i axept dis challenge

Azhure.1857:

Challenging content? …..

After the NPE and its resulting portrayal of what ArenaNet feels new players are capable of, which is next to nothing, how can you have so much faith in anything “challenging”?

Have you completed Triple Trouble Wurm?

Challenging = having to dodge twice. Grinding new masteries (reputation) so we only have to dodge once = new progression.

lordkrall.7241:

Azhure.1857:

Challenging content? …..

After the NPE and its resulting portrayal of what ArenaNet feels new players are capable of, which is next to nothing, how can you have so much faith in anything “challenging”?

Have you completed Triple Trouble Wurm?

See that’s my fear, that they take the organizational challenging and ignore the execution and personal challenge aspects.

Triple Wurm is actually very easy, it’s just about getting enough bodies who understand what to do.

So the challenge there is herding cats, not anything else. I’ll admit it’s a form of challenge, but not one I’d consider fun, just frustrating. As no matter how good you are, you can only do so much and you have to watch as others kitten it up even though you told them exactly how to do it and showed them exactly where to be.

^Everything is very easy when you know how to do it.

“Where is the content that they called challenging for “non-casual” players in HoT?”

Short answer: It hasn’t been addressed yet.

Long answer: Just because you haven’t seen it yet doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. They haven’t addressed guild halls either, does that mean that they in fact do not exist and will not be part of the expansion? No, just means that they aren’t to a point where they are ready to talk about it yet.

lordkrall.7241:

^Everything is very easy when you know how to do it.

not true

lordkrall.7241:

^Everything is very easy when you know how to do it.

Nope…

See there are different aspects of challenging, you can make something’s execution challenging. I’d point to Lupi solos. I can’t do it right now, but I do understand exactly how it should be done, I just end up too slow on dodge buttons or get jumbled up and confused on my rotation of defenses leaving me attempting to use toolkit block when it’s not available and I eat a hit. It has a high level of challenge for it’s execution.

phys.7689:

lordkrall.7241:

^Everything is very easy when you know how to do it.

not true

He does have a point though. With time and knowledge all things become ‘easy.’ Nothing is challenging forever. Hell, I remember when I thought Factions was hard. When I thought FoW and DoA were ‘challenging.’ It really didn’t take long to learn otherwise.

Jerus.4350:

Nope…

See there are different aspects of challenging, you can make something’s execution challenging. I’d point to Lupi solos. I can’t do it right now, but I do understand exactly how it should be done, I just end up too slow on dodge buttons or get jumbled up and confused on my rotation of defenses leaving me attempting to use toolkit block when it’s not available and I eat a hit. It has a high level of challenge for it’s execution.

And yet there are people that solo lupi without any sort of issues whatsoever. Ergo it is no longer challenging. When you have learned to do something it will no longer be challenging.

A bit like reading. When you start learning to read it is extremely challenging, but when you have learned to do it there is no challenge in it whatsoever.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

phys.7689:

lordkrall.7241:

^Everything is very easy when you know how to do it.

not true

He does have a point though. With time and knowledge all things become ‘easy.’ Nothing is challenging forever. Hell, I remember when I thought Factions was hard. When I thought FoW and DoA were ‘challenging.’ It really didn’t take long to learn otherwise.

whether something becomes easy has to do with what that something is. there is a point at which you improve basics, and after that point its all about the actual thing at hand.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

phys.7689:

lordkrall.7241:

^Everything is very easy when you know how to do it.

not true

He does have a point though. With time and knowledge all things become ‘easy.’ Nothing is challenging forever. Hell, I remember when I thought Factions was hard. When I thought FoW and DoA were ‘challenging.’ It really didn’t take long to learn otherwise.

It all depends on the content. I doubt Lupi will ever fall out of the realm of challenging for me because I have pretty slow reaction times for a gamer. Even when I was able to regularly solo him I’d make small mistakes and I never considered it an easy task. Of course challenge is subjective and someone like Purple Miku, Element, No Trigger, or any of those pro soloers probably found it easy long before I even got it the first time. I mean, Miku goes and has Nightmare and Hell levels for his solos where he brings in other champs just for fun.

Strategy type challenges are going to fall to easy very fast once you know how to do them as the challenge was to come up with a way to do it, once you’ve accomplished that repetition isn’t hard. Fractal 50 Jade maw comes to mind, initially you’ll be caught off guard by the adds but once you learn to LoS and use blinds, well, easymode win.

Again, different elements of challenging, if you want to make lasting content execution needs to be a focus. Though, that also pushes many players out of being able to do it.

lordkrall.7241:

Jerus.4350:

Nope…

See there are different aspects of challenging, you can make something’s execution challenging. I’d point to Lupi solos. I can’t do it right now, but I do understand exactly how it should be done, I just end up too slow on dodge buttons or get jumbled up and confused on my rotation of defenses leaving me attempting to use toolkit block when it’s not available and I eat a hit. It has a high level of challenge for it’s execution.

And yet there are people that solo lupi without any sort of issues whatsoever. Ergo it is no longer challenging. When you have learned to do something it will no longer be challenging.

A bit like reading. When you start learning to read it is extremely challenging, but when you have learned to do it there is no challenge in it whatsoever.

Except there is challenge to reading depending on what you are reading, there is also multiple levels of understanding.

you think playoff basketball isnt challenging for an NBA player?
winning tournaments?
marathons?
writing a song?
drawing a picture?
writing a book?
gymnastics?
dance?

They did mention hard mode achievements for the story instances, but we already have those. Unfortunately, they’ll probably either continue to allow groups to trivialize them or design them for groups.

Firelysm.4967:

• NO MORE EASY CONTENT THAT I CAN ACCOMPLISH BY AFK-ING THE EVENT

Until they fix contribution to actually factor contribution, this will never happen regardless of how difficult something is because you can simply leech it. The same can said for most group content – you can usually carry at least 1 bad player.

Azhure.1857:

After the NPE and its resulting portrayal of what ArenaNet feels new players are capable of, which is next to nothing, how can you have so much faith in anything “challenging”?

ArenaNet had much higher expectations originally. They assumed players would explore and be familiar with mobile combat. They were forced to adapt, else lose beginners. Back in beta, the early areas were heavily nerfed. A lot of enemies had charge up attacks that would basically 1 shot you. For example a Moa’s peck or an Ettin’s club smash. Enemies simply did more damage in general. Even the tutorial boss featured a 1 shot mechanic, but the average player didn’t know about or figure out rallying.

Regardless of the low level nerfs however, the leveling experience can be quite challenging if you want it to be. Simply play naked while keeping up with +2 level areas.

lordkrall.7241:

A bit like reading. When you start learning to read it is extremely challenging, but when you have learned to do it there is no challenge in it whatsoever.

Have you read Finnegan’s Wake?

phys.7689:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

phys.7689:

lordkrall.7241:

^Everything is very easy when you know how to do it.

not true

He does have a point though. With time and knowledge all things become ‘easy.’ Nothing is challenging forever. Hell, I remember when I thought Factions was hard. When I thought FoW and DoA were ‘challenging.’ It really didn’t take long to learn otherwise.

whether something becomes easy has to do with what that something is. there is a point at which you improve basics, and after that point its all about the actual thing at hand.

Even something that has ‘challenging’ mechanics though, like you’re talking about, will eventually just become routine after you do it enough times. Its difficulty hasn’t changed, and yes you still may end splattered all over the wall if you lag or misclick at an imopportune moment, but its not really ‘challenging’ anymore. Not in the way the OP is talking about. This is where ‘practice makes perfect’ comes from. However, there is also the additional facet of how challenging something is (or remains) has a lot to do with the player too.

Jerus.4350:

It all depends on the content. I doubt Lupi will ever fall out of the realm of challenging for me because I have pretty slow reaction times for a gamer. Even when I was able to regularly solo him I’d make small mistakes and I never considered it an easy task. Of course challenge is subjective and someone like Purple Miku, Element, No Trigger, or any of those pro soloers probably found it easy long before I even got it the first time. I mean, Miku goes and has Nightmare and Hell levels for his solos where he brings in other champs just for fun.

Exactly ‘challenging’ is very much subjective from person to person, and that’s something a lot of people don’t consider.

Jerus.4350:

Strategy type challenges are going to fall to easy very fast once you know how to do them as the challenge was to come up with a way to do it, once you’ve accomplished that repetition isn’t hard. Fractal 50 Jade maw comes to mind, initially you’ll be caught off guard by the adds but once you learn to LoS and use blinds, well, easymode win.

Again, different elements of challenging, if you want to make lasting content execution needs to be a focus. Though, that also pushes many players out of being able to do it.

The problem with most games is that once you learn the mechanics, it starts to get easier. Unless they significantly change the mechanics of the encounter on a regular basis, which would kitten a lot of people off, eventually it’s just going to boil down to routine.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

phys.7689:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

phys.7689:

lordkrall.7241:

^Everything is very easy when you know how to do it.

not true

He does have a point though. With time and knowledge all things become ‘easy.’ Nothing is challenging forever. Hell, I remember when I thought Factions was hard. When I thought FoW and DoA were ‘challenging.’ It really didn’t take long to learn otherwise.

whether something becomes easy has to do with what that something is. there is a point at which you improve basics, and after that point its all about the actual thing at hand.

Even something that has ‘challenging’ mechanics though, like you’re talking about, will eventually just become routine after you do it enough times. Its difficulty hasn’t changed, and yes you still may end splattered all over the wall if you lag or misclick at an imopportune moment, but its not really ‘challenging’ anymore. Not in the way the OP is talking about. This is where ‘practice makes perfect’ comes from. However, there is also the additional facet of how challenging something is (or remains) has a lot to do with the player too.

i dont think so, concert pianists still spend great amounts of time practicing for a performance, and even then how good it is, is not guaranteed.

and even within the scope you guys are talking about, the reality is that there is a difference between something that you cannot lose, and something that you have to constantly pay attention to, and respond/react in order to win.

If you expected open world content that was actually hard then you can stop hoping. They can make content only so hard when random people on a map have to be able to complete it without proper communication and group play.

The first time we actually see anet making content “more difficult” is imo in Fractals. Stepping into a 50 Fractal actually sees some differences than scale 10.

Let’s ignore the instabilities for a moment and just talk about the fact that more mobs are added here or there, or some boss mechanics act slightly differently (ie. Jade maw the adds dont despawn)
This was imo a big step forward, however anet has changed tact and is going back to increasing difficulty simply by increasing the damage a mob does and the hp is has. This is not really increasing a challenge, just making a fight longer.

Lets say they introduced a Hard Mode Arah, what do you think would change? Mob placement? No too much work. Boss UI? Too much work. Boss HP? Easy to modify so yes. Boss damage? Yes easy to modify.

Anet is all about cutting corners when it comes to players that have any decent level of game playing ability.

Are we going to see new dungeons? No.
Are we going to see new fractals? Probably not, just higher tiers with the same sucky rewards.
Challenging content? Maybe some world bosses that require us to use 2/3/4/5 on our skill list instead of just 1. But I doubt it.

phys.7689:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

phys.7689:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

phys.7689:

lordkrall.7241:

^Everything is very easy when you know how to do it.

not true

He does have a point though. With time and knowledge all things become ‘easy.’ Nothing is challenging forever. Hell, I remember when I thought Factions was hard. When I thought FoW and DoA were ‘challenging.’ It really didn’t take long to learn otherwise.

whether something becomes easy has to do with what that something is. there is a point at which you improve basics, and after that point its all about the actual thing at hand.

Even something that has ‘challenging’ mechanics though, like you’re talking about, will eventually just become routine after you do it enough times. Its difficulty hasn’t changed, and yes you still may end splattered all over the wall if you lag or misclick at an imopportune moment, but its not really ‘challenging’ anymore. Not in the way the OP is talking about. This is where ‘practice makes perfect’ comes from. However, there is also the additional facet of how challenging something is (or remains) has a lot to do with the player too.

i dont think so, concert pianists still spend great amounts of time practicing for a performance, and even then how good it is, is not guaranteed.

and even within the scope you guys are talking about, the reality is that there is a difference between something that you cannot lose, and something that you have to constantly pay attention to, and respond/react in order to win.

There is always human error to take into account. I play clarinet, used to compete in high school in every solo and ensemble. I used to practice for multiple hours a day in order to learn my pieces, to get in sync with my pianist, to build the muscle memory in my fingers. It does get easier with every pass, but you’re right it doesn’t guarantee a perfect performance. All it takes is one hiccup, and it’s the same with a game. Time and knowledge make anything ‘challenging’ easier. Doesn’t mean it will always go off without a hitch though.

Apexis Dailies. Jk.

Triple Fractal Daily – Remove all other dailys from rotations = challenging content. NP

Jerus.4350:

See that’s my fear, that they take the organizational challenging and ignore the execution and personal challenge aspects.

Triple Wurm is actually very easy, it’s just about getting enough bodies who understand what to do.

So the challenge there is herding cats, not anything else. I’ll admit it’s a form of challenge, but not one I’d consider fun, just frustrating. As no matter how good you are, you can only do so much and you have to watch as others kitten it up even though you told them exactly how to do it and showed them exactly where to be.

That sounds exactly like in my old days when I was regularly raiding in Rift (10 and 20 man raids).

The raid leader was “herding and entertaining cats” and all other players had just to do what the raid leader told them and had to be where the raid leader told them to be.

Even “challenging group content” like a raid becomes easier in time. Thats when a raid gets “farm status” (and it is after that mostly done only to train other players and get gear).

Can’t speak for others but I already note a large difference in AI mechanics so far. For example Snipers who leave huge AOE lines in the middle of the field and will do things like jumping back out of attacks and melee players. Is it the peak of artificial intelligence? No. Is it greater than just running in and auto attacking? Yes.

See how things progress but if you’re expecting ultra challenging AI you’re probably shooting a bit too high with the expectations.

There is of course a fine line the dev’s need to address.

Do you want to challenge the majority of the populous to the point they decide it is not worth their time?

Do you want to make things so easy a child can do it?

If you choose to far into the first option every casual will leave the game is search of easier games elsewhere, the weekend warriors are after-all paying customers. If you choose to swing the pendulum to far in the other direction, now only do you lose the hardcore paying customers, but many of the casuals will too soon become bored.

I’m sure many of us like a challenge, but not many of us would keep playing if liandri was the norm and not the exception. What they have designed thusfar has at least been steps closer to a challenge (toxic blooms in Kessix), but even those are mostly ignored now, so we will have to see .

in the beta we saw 1-2 biomes of about 1/3 of 1 of at least 2 (very likely more than 2) of the maps coming with the expansion. Besides that, most of us only claimed 2 mastery lines, gliding 1 and shrooms 1. in other words, at most we had the chance to explore about a tenth of the map area available in the expansion and were missing some exploration tools that may have revealed more even in the area we had. I dont think I would pass judgement on a lack of “challenging group content” until we at the very least get a blog post and POI on what challenging group content is defined as.

That was one thing i really noticed Kodiak, I saw alot oftimes where I placed AOE on an enemy to spread between 3-4 foes, and some would actually dodge out of the aoe field or single attacks. Everywhere else A mob just mindlessly does whatever it can to stay on you in melee range reguardless of the amount of damage it takes. the only few exceptions are the moas, they actually try ti run from you for a few seconds when their health drops low… Its nice to start to see smarter mobs in this regards.

Wildstar has a method I really like – some creatures are bigger and have extra types of attacks, but count more toward completion than small ones. It’s then up to me what kind of challenge I want. If I want to play it safe, I take out a bunch of small guys. If I want more of a challenge, I take on bigger ones. GW2 could do something similar. When bandits raid the farm, some of them are nastier and harder to beat, but they count more toward completion. Each time you kill a big one, for example, two little ones could run away. There are many ways it could be handled to give people options.

Vayne.8563:

Whether you call this an expansion or not is largely irrelevant.

Very untrue. How people label the product is a quick way for people to categorize their impression on the amount of content, the quality of content, how many if any features are added & the expected cost. It’s a quick way to encapsulate your opinion on the entire thing. You’re just getting semantic for the sake of argument.

DarksunG.9537:

Vayne.8563:

Whether you call this an expansion or not is largely irrelevant.

Very untrue. How people label the product is a quick way for people to categorize their impression on the amount of content, the quality of content, how many if any features are added & the expected cost. It’s a quick way to encapsulate your opinion on the entire thing. You’re just getting semantic for the sake of argument.

What you call something isn’t what it is. It’s LARGELY irrelevant. That’s not the same as completely irrelevant. You can call a horse a table, but the moment you try to eat dinner on it, you’re in for a rough time.

This is an expansion because Anet calls it one. It fundamentally changes the game. I needs to provide enough content timewise to compete with other expansions. This isn’t just a single storyline that is being added to an already existing game. It’s a fundamental change of some of the game’s basics. You have to be pretty uncharitable to call this just a DLC and I don’t think most people will.

And it would certainly help if we had this conversation after we had the rest of the detail and not before.

Don’t feed the troll. Seriously guys, this was obvious bait…

Just because content eventually makes farm status for large guilds doesn’t mean it isn’t challenging. Many hard mode WoW raids are farmed and considered “easy” by the best guilds, but they are still challenging for the rest of the world. I consider “hard content” as something that requires coordination between players, deep knowledge of your class and top performance by each individual player. The last two points are important and currently missing. Right now the only challenge is getting enough bodies who know where to stand. No one needs good gear, no one needs to actually know their class or build, and 90% of players can just auto attack and still complete the “hard” content.

Instance it, reduce number of players to 10, add in those last two aspects of the challenge.

I’d consider the following challenging content in this game:

-Arah
-High level Fractals
-Liadri
-Candidate Trials Tier 4 as a Group

Other people might consider Aetherpath to be hard, but I think it’s gimmicky and that’s different than challenging.

Other people might consider Wurm and Teq hard, but I think the challenge lies more in herding a zerg so you can harness the power of the autoattack. It’s coordination in movement, not in using the game’s combat mechanics. Maybe there’s a bit of this in the benefit of condition classes against husks, but it’s really minimal.

This game lacks content that really forces a team to utilize different elements of the game’s combat system to accomplish a goal. There is little content that forces people to synergize classes, to know fields and finishers, to demand that each individual be competent. I think this is what people are looking for. Something that keeps people at the edge of their toes, that makes timing of skill execution important, and type of skill execution important. Something beyond zerg autos.

As I said above, the content that gets closest to that ideal is Arah, high level fractals, Liadri, and that Candidate Trials event (which I don’t think any full group managed to beat.)

Something like DoA, FoW, UW, with varied goals, roles for individuals (NO, NOT TRINITY ROLES), and required group coordination beyond superficial zerging would be welcomed.

Edit: I got the name of the Candidate Trials event wrong initially.

Hmm… When I started playing GW2 I thought it was OK in difficulty, it wasnt too hard and not to easy,it was Perfect.

Later on I started doing Dungeons with my friends and we had a hard time doing even AC story and we even gave up on CM Story once. The dungeons where realy hard and I cried on the forums that they should add an Easy Norma and hard mode for dungeons. Well now I almost do the dungeons in my sleep, I solo AC and I can do most dungeons with just 3 members just to make them even harder.

Then the Aetherblade path came and before that there was this temporary Aetherblade hideout dungeon in LA. Those two dungeons are realy realy hard and I still have problems with the Aetherblade path (As I have only played it through about 3 times). I still have problems with the Laser wall room with the Golems in fractals as I havent done that one that many times iether. But every time I do them I learn frommy mistakes and everytime the dungeons gets easier.

So in my opinion, the dungeons in GW2 is challangeing but we learn how to beat them by knowing what to do and some players even find glitches (I hate that) to make it easier and then they complain that it is easy.

PvE/Non dungeon content though is pretty easy, Silverwastes is good though imo, I know now how to survive in SW but it is not an easy place. Also Teq and evolved JW is challangeing and in the beginning we needed TS to defeat Teq now it is defeated on regular basis without TS, but still it needs more hard work that the other Worldbosses. Evolwed JW still needs TS (I think) But I think that when most of the players have learned how to do it TS is not needed there iether.

So after all my rant I just want to say that after I have played Dry Top and Silverwastes I beleave in Anet devs to do a wonderfull Expansion with a difficulty scale that fits most of us players.