Guild Wars 2

Sounds like the challenging content they were talking about is instanced. I’m going to comfortably guess that the content in question are raids. The raid CDI and them hiring a raid designer makes it a pretty safe bet in my eyes.

Fernling.1729:

Sounds like the challenging content they were talking about is instanced. I’m going to comfortably guess that the content in question are raids. The raid CDI and them hiring a raid designer makes it a pretty safe bet in my eyes.

I’ve learned to never get my hopes up, otherwise I’ll just end up crying on the corner (kitten you Konami!).

Ever since the Marionette I’ve been yearning for “challenging” group content…

ColinJohanson.2394:

Simply put: we haven’t announced it yet – when we’re ready to show everything about our plans for challenging content for HoT, we’ll announce it.

Though it isn’t the “challenging content” feature discussed in our announcement – I will add we want our open world content experience to be more challenging as well just in general. Though the AI was better in our CBT experience – we think we still have a lot of work to do to get our creatures and encounters even at the start of Verdant Brink up to where we want them to be. Our game has great combat, our creatures and encounters should challenge and require you to use that combat system.

More info “when it’s ready”.

Your AI is sad for 2015 era, sorry aNet, i’m with you since GW1 beta, i know you can do better….

The announcement of raids would be a pretty big deal for a lot of mmo players. Lack of endgame is one of the biggest complaints I have seen about GW2 from players in other games/forums.
Maybe the announcement of raids is something they are planning for E3.

Firelysm.4967:

Your AI is sad for 2015 era, sorry aNet, i’m with you since GW1 beta, i know you can do better….

So where are all these other MMOs with so much better AI? (And no, the AI in GW1 was not even remotely close).

Sytherek.7689:

Scaling.

Want to make me happy, and those I play with?

Make your challenging content scale from 1-5 people.

I often have 1-2 friends / family online, and I don’t want / need to drag in strangers. I want to play with people I know, trust, and are often in the same room.

For that matter, scale fractals and existing dungeons too.

Let me play how I want with who I want.

To this I can only add ‘pretty please with sugar on top’.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Can we expect the AI changes to be placed on currently-existing open-world, or is that not feasible.

They said sometime this year, that they have thought about this for the existing open world bosses and would like to do that, but think that it is (for now) better to focus on creating new content than changing the existing one.

lordkrall.7241:

Firelysm.4967:

Your AI is sad for 2015 era, sorry aNet, i’m with you since GW1 beta, i know you can do better….

So where are all these other MMOs with so much better AI? (And no, the AI in GW1 was not even remotely close).

Do you ever stop trolling?

xev.9476:

lordkrall.7241:

Firelysm.4967:

Your AI is sad for 2015 era, sorry aNet, i’m with you since GW1 beta, i know you can do better….

So where are all these other MMOs with so much better AI? (And no, the AI in GW1 was not even remotely close).

Do you ever stop trolling?

Despite the intentions (and I don’t think he’s trolling) this should be a serious question. I think AI is a complicated enough aspect of game design that if you asked an average group of players what it is and how it affected them, you would probably get a wide range of responses that are probably not entirely accurate. I don’t know of many mmos that had a combat system that relied solely on mob AI for difficulty. I mean of all the perceived issues with Open World/Instanced encounters, is mob/pet AI really the crux of the problem? I wouldn’t say so. There have been many discussions, the most heated surrounding the zerker meta, about how gw2 encounters are designed and my takeaway has always been that mob AI is only a small part of the overall combat design. Environment design, player skill design, intended win/loss ratio, and other things all play a role in how combat flows. So, for me, harping on AI is akin to not having a better understanding of the issue in question.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Simply put: we haven’t announced it yet – when we’re ready to show everything about our plans for challenging content for HoT, we’ll announce it.

Though it isn’t the “challenging content” feature discussed in our announcement – I will add we want our open world content experience to be more challenging as well just in general. Though the AI was better in our CBT experience – we think we still have a lot of work to do to get our creatures and encounters even at the start of Verdant Brink up to where we want them to be. Our game has great combat, our creatures and encounters should challenge and require you to use that combat system.

More info “when it’s ready”.

What I want to know is if this “open world content experience” that’ll be more challenging gets added retroactively to core content. Because that’s in dire need of improvement.

I know you guys don’t like improving old content much and prefer focusing on making new things but… it’s kind of needed.

Just like Season 1 is needed for any player who missed that content – the number of times I’ve seen ‘new’ players (I use quotation marks because they’re not all that new anymore) wondering wtf happened between the PS and S2, who the biconics are, why they’re ‘the boss’ and so forth is staggering and the amount is only increasing.

ColinJohanson.2394:

I will add we want our open world content experience to be more challenging as well just in general. Though the AI was better in our CBT experience – we think we still have a lot of work to do to get our creatures and encounters even at the start of Verdant Brink up to where we want them to be. Our game has great combat, our creatures and encounters should challenge and require you to use that combat system.

Ok, but just please remember that your player base is mainly casual and we want and like cooperative/solo easy and happy play.
Im sure you in Anet knows it (proof of that is all the nerfing in the last 3 years in difficulty, dailies and logging rewards… etc)

I feel someone has to say something about it cause forums are the playground for people who want changes, who doesnt like the game too much.
But what about the ones who actually like it just as it is?

I understand that you guys want to make it a little harder so people who demands that (a challenging game) come back to the game, but don’t go too far on that direction or you’ll may loose everyone (cause you know, haters are gonna hate, and lovers can hate too)
Just saying.

I personally dont like games where you need hours and days to finish one piece of content or where you need to improve your skills and try/fail, try/fail and try/fail.
I work, i have a life, a family and i don’t have too much time to spend on “challenging content” in a game.
But it is actually beyond that, it is not that i just cant play that way, it is that i dont want to XD. Some people just like easy game play. And im sure you anet has figures and numbers and you know what kind of players do you have and what they actually like.

If HoT is going to follow that “challenging” path (even if is not challenging enough, wich i suspect) I may reconsider buying it. The good thing about buying and paying for an expansion is that the ball is in the consumer roof at this point. We can decide what kind of game we want to buy or not so, if you want to give us difficult content… it is good to know

Before, I didnt actually expect HoT to be challenging or difficult, I took all this words just as a marketing strategy to bring more people into the game. The more the marrier, and i agree.

But after seeing that beta cycle, where day/night took 2 hours (2 hours of gameplay for just one event chain it is no casual at all, even when the events were easy. The chain events for SW and DT are already long enough in my opinion, so imagine 2 hours…)… and now reading this words from Colin… im starting to think that they actually have decided to make the game less casual and more challenging.

Of course im sure it will never be as challenging as people who likes challenging games demand, but it may be enough challeging (specially in “time terms”) for the casual playerbase.

Time will tell i guess.
Hopefully the game stay casual and people who enjoy GW2 can enjoy (and buy ) HoT.
If not, i just hope that you at least reach the standars of what challenging people demands, otherwise you may disappoint everyone.

xev.9476:

Do you ever stop trolling?

I did not intend my post as trolling. I am genuinely interested in which MMOs have better AI.
People rather often bring up how much better other games are at X thing, but they more or less never actually give examples.

It’s astonishing how afraid people are from raids, giving every sort of excuse: it will steal resources from doing other content, it will diminish player base, it will create elitism, it doesn’t fit the game because philosophy is casual-friendly (wtf?), we have “great” world bosses which are difficult already (w.t.f.?), it will require too much time spent to complete, just a minority is asking for it, it is not “needed”, etc. Seriously? Is it that hard to understand that it’s OPTIONAL? You don’t have to do? I don’t sPvP, I’m not forced to do it, and yet they’re constantly spending resources on that to make it more attractive, if you compare to PvE and WvW there aren’t as many players playing it, and yet they keep on refining it because they believe in e-sport and that game mode. For Jesus Christ’s sake, just STOP thinking the world revolves around yourselves and be a little less egoistics.

Silicato.4603:

ColinJohanson.2394:

I will add we want our open world content experience to be more challenging as well just in general. Though the AI was better in our CBT experience – we think we still have a lot of work to do to get our creatures and encounters even at the start of Verdant Brink up to where we want them to be. Our game has great combat, our creatures and encounters should challenge and require you to use that combat system.

Ok, but just please remember that your player base is mainly casual and we want and like cooperative/solo easy and happy play.
Im sure you in Anet knows it (proof of that is all the nerfing in the last 3 years in difficulty, dailies and logging rewards… etc)

I feel someone has to say something about it cause forums are the playground for people who want changes, who doesnt like the game too much.
But what about the ones who actually like it just as it is?

I understand that you guys want to make it a little harder so people who demands that (a challenging game) come back to the game, but don’t go too far on that direction or you’ll may loose everyone (cause you know, haters are gonna hate, and lovers can hate too)
Just saying.

I personally dont like games where you need hours and days to finish one piece of content or where you need to improve your skills and try/fail, try/fail and try/fail.
I work, i have a life, a family and i don’t have too much time to spend on “challenging content” in a game.
But it is actually beyond that, it is not that i just cant play that way, it is that i dont want to XD. Some people just like easy game play. And im sure you anet has figures and numbers and you know what kind of players do you have and what they actually like.

If HoT is going to follow that “challenging” path (even if is not challenging enough, wich i suspect) I may reconsider buying it. The good thing about buying and paying for an expansion is that the ball is in the consumer roof at this point. We can decide what kind of game we want to buy or not so, if you want to give us difficult content… it is good to know

Before, I didnt actually expect HoT to be challenging or difficult, I took all this words just as a marketing strategy to bring more people into the game. The more the marrier, and i agree.

But after seeing that beta cycle, where day/night took 2 hours (2 hours of gameplay for just one event chain it is no casual at all, even when the events were easy. The chain events for SW and DT are already long enough in my opinion, so imagine 2 hours…)… and now reading this words from Colin… im starting to think that they actually have decided to make the game less casual and more challenging.

Of course im sure it will never be as challenging as people who likes challenging games demand, but it may be enough challeging (specially in “time terms”) for the casual playerbase.

Time will tell i guess.
Hopefully the game stay casual and people who enjoy GW2 can enjoy (and buy ) HoT.
If not, i just hope that you at least reach the standars of what challenging people demands, otherwise you may disappoint everyone.

Good perspective.

If ANet goes down the “only tough content” road, they will lose. History is replete with examples of MMOs chasing away the bulk of their paying customers by turning “fun relaxation” into “hard work.”

Valento.9852:

It’s astonishing how afraid people are from raids, giving every sort of excuse: it will steal resources from doing other content, it will diminish player base, it will create elitism, it doesn’t fit the game because philosophy is casual-friendly (wtf?), we have “great” world bosses which are difficult already (w.t.f.?), it will require too much time spent to complete, just a minority is asking for it, it is not “needed”, etc. Seriously? Is it that hard to understand that it’s OPTIONAL? You don’t have to do? I don’t sPvP, I’m not forced to do it, and yet they’re constantly spending resources on that to make it more attractive, if you compare to PvE and WvW there aren’t as many players playing it, and yet they keep on refining it because they believe in e-sport and that game mode. For Jesus Christ’s sake, just STOP thinking the world revolves around yourselves and be a little less egoistics.

In most games raids are NOT optional. That is also the reason why they have a bad name. Raids are the core of the endless geargrind in those games and not participating in it will mean you will not be the very best (which is actually something important in GW2). Just for that reason alone I don’t think that GW2 ever should have “raids”. It is in my opinion perfectly ok to have raid like content and there is raid like content. You got the guild missions, including the world bosses. You got the 5 people story instances challenges (for achievement points), and you got the dungeons (including fractals) The question is why people are not sattisfied with it.
1: lack of difficulty.
2: lack of rewards.
3: a bit of both.

To explain why. The lack of rewards is to actually prevent the endless geargrind. by adding good rewards to them, you are making them more required to do and make them loose what you call, optional content. The lack of difficulty is cause people just don’t do hard content when the reward is slacking.

Even in the rare cases when challenging content is released (not raid btw) like Liarda, the event gets nerfed cause people cry that they can’t do it and it is too hard compared to the reward.

Now what is my opinion. Guild Wars 2 is in my opinion one of the only real MMORPG’s. a game like e.g. World of Warcraft (known for it’s Raids) is an MMO, but not an RPG. It actually is made too hard and to grindy to be it.

People should do stuff, not to brag bout pixelated art to others, but for the fun of roleplaying. That is what people have against raids. it destroys the RPG in MMORPG.

Valento.9852:

It’s astonishing how afraid people are from raids, giving every sort of excuse: it will steal resources from doing other content, it will diminish player base, it will create elitism, it doesn’t fit the game because philosophy is casual-friendly (wtf?), we have “great” world bosses which are difficult already (w.t.f.?), it will require too much time spent to complete, just a minority is asking for it, it is not “needed”, etc. Seriously? Is it that hard to understand that it’s OPTIONAL? You don’t have to do? I don’t sPvP, I’m not forced to do it, and yet they’re constantly spending resources on that to make it more attractive, if you compare to PvE and WvW there aren’t as many players playing it, and yet they keep on refining it because they believe in e-sport and that game mode. For Jesus Christ’s sake, just STOP thinking the world revolves around yourselves and be a little less egoistics.

It amazes me how people only see things from one point of view and seem incapable of seeing how others can for a different one, even though this view is shared by so many. So maybe, just maybe, there’s a reason for it.

Perhaps we’ve all played raid-centric games and we’ve seen where that’s led in those games, and so we have a bad taste in our mouths. Rift was a game that initially had some promise, but everything funneled you into raiding. You couldn’t even finish the main quest line of the game without doing a raid.

The currency in that game that came from the open world was capped and many of us had reached the cap. Why? Because raids held sway in that game. DO you know how many games there are where the only way to get the best gear is to raid?

So maybe we’re tired of those type of games and have reason to not want that type of game here. A company that tries to focus on too many things, ends up doing none of them well. Anet should focus on the differences between this game and others, not the stuff that other games have that are already done well elsewhere. It’s a better business strategy.

People are resistant to raids for no reason. Many of us have played games centered around raids and they don’t fit our play style. And if you put enough emphasis on stuff like raids, you attract the raiders, who are the loudest segment of most MMO population. They continually put pressure on the devs to make more raids. To make harder raids. To increase the rewards for raids.

For some of us, this isn’t our first rodeo and the opinions we’ve developed come from playing other games that do it other ways. That’s why these opinions exist. It might not happen here, but I don’t see how anyone could guarantee it won’t.

You guys dictate your opinions by the World of Warcraft definition of raids. Raids, in GW2 terms, will not:

• Have gear treadmill: This has been clarified since launch, with the manifesto.
• Be mandatory: Apart from the current means we have to gear up, no further methods are needed. You can get exotics with dungeons and other various contents, ascended with fractals, world bosses, and other stuff.

When we have these two points perfectly clarified (i.e. GW2-style raids), then what are raids for? Re: Difficult instanced content long requested/asked, in a more closed environment to reproduce experiences old-school MMO players miss. What would the rewards be? Re: Skins, be it grindy or not, simply skins. Skins don’t make one more powerful than someone else, so it is perfectly feasible.

Valento.9852:

You guys dictate your opinions by the World of Warcraft definition of raids. Raids, in GW2 terms, will not:

• Have gear treadmill: This has been clarified since launch, with the manifesto.
• Be mandatory: Apart from the current means we have to gear up, no further methods are needed. You can get exotics with dungeons and other various contents, ascended with fractals, world bosses, and other stuff.

When we have these two points perfectly clarified (i.e. GW2-style raids), then what are raids for? Re: Difficult instanced content long requested/asked, in a more closed environment to reproduce experiences old-school MMO players miss. What would the rewards be? Re: Skins, be it grindy or not, simply skins. Skins don’t make one more powerful than someone else, so it is perfectly feasible.

Sure it’s feasible. Let’s hope they don’t hide all the best skins behind raiding though, or people like me will feel we have to raid to play the game, to get those skins, the one thing we didn’t have to do before.

Raiding people don’t just want challenge, they want reward for challenge…at least many of them have asked for that. Start gating skins behind the hardest content in the game and people will want the “best” or coolest looking skins. And if you don’t want to raid you then have to choose to raid, or not have those skins.

Dungeons weren’t quite as bad, and still some people had problems with that. Of course, now there’s a PvP track that allows you to get dungeon rewards, so you at least have another option. But raiders also tend to want exclusive, unique rewards. Then you end up again with the haves and have nots. If the haves happen to be a smaller group, and the have nots is a much bigger group. you’ll end up kittening off your core players.

It doesn’t HAVE TO happen like that, but it sure could. And from what I’ve seen of what raiders want reward wise, that’s where the problem lies.

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

You guys dictate your opinions by the World of Warcraft definition of raids. Raids, in GW2 terms, will not:

• Have gear treadmill: This has been clarified since launch, with the manifesto.
• Be mandatory: Apart from the current means we have to gear up, no further methods are needed. You can get exotics with dungeons and other various contents, ascended with fractals, world bosses, and other stuff.

When we have these two points perfectly clarified (i.e. GW2-style raids), then what are raids for? Re: Difficult instanced content long requested/asked, in a more closed environment to reproduce experiences old-school MMO players miss. What would the rewards be? Re: Skins, be it grindy or not, simply skins. Skins don’t make one more powerful than someone else, so it is perfectly feasible.

Sure it’s feasible. Let’s hope they don’t hide all the best skins behind raiding though, or people like me will feel we have to raid to play the game, to get those skins, the one thing we didn’t have to do before.

Raiding people don’t just want challenge, they want reward for challenge…at least many of them have asked for that. Start gating skins behind the hardest content in the game and people will want the “best” or coolest looking skins. And if you don’t want to raid you then have to choose to raid, or not have those skins.

Dungeons weren’t quite as bad, and still some people had problems with that. Of course, now there’s a PvP track that allows you to get dungeon rewards, so you at least have another option. But raiders also tend to want exclusive, unique rewards. Then you end up again with the haves and have nots. If the haves happen to be a smaller group, and the have nots is a much bigger group. you’ll end up kittening off your core players.

It doesn’t HAVE TO happen like that, but it sure could. And from what I’ve seen of what raiders want reward wise, that’s where the problem lies.

Yeah, could, you must agree that’s on ANet hands though.

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

You guys dictate your opinions by the World of Warcraft definition of raids. Raids, in GW2 terms, will not:

• Have gear treadmill: This has been clarified since launch, with the manifesto.
• Be mandatory: Apart from the current means we have to gear up, no further methods are needed. You can get exotics with dungeons and other various contents, ascended with fractals, world bosses, and other stuff.

When we have these two points perfectly clarified (i.e. GW2-style raids), then what are raids for? Re: Difficult instanced content long requested/asked, in a more closed environment to reproduce experiences old-school MMO players miss. What would the rewards be? Re: Skins, be it grindy or not, simply skins. Skins don’t make one more powerful than someone else, so it is perfectly feasible.

Sure it’s feasible. Let’s hope they don’t hide all the best skins behind raiding though, or people like me will feel we have to raid to play the game, to get those skins, the one thing we didn’t have to do before.

Raiding people don’t just want challenge, they want reward for challenge…at least many of them have asked for that. Start gating skins behind the hardest content in the game and people will want the “best” or coolest looking skins. And if you don’t want to raid you then have to choose to raid, or not have those skins.

Dungeons weren’t quite as bad, and still some people had problems with that. Of course, now there’s a PvP track that allows you to get dungeon rewards, so you at least have another option. But raiders also tend to want exclusive, unique rewards. Then you end up again with the haves and have nots. If the haves happen to be a smaller group, and the have nots is a much bigger group. you’ll end up kittening off your core players.

It doesn’t HAVE TO happen like that, but it sure could. And from what I’ve seen of what raiders want reward wise, that’s where the problem lies.

Yeah, could, you must agree that’s on ANet hands though.

As is whether or not they make raids. That’s also in their hands.

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Sure it’s feasible. Let’s hope they don’t hide all the best skins behind raiding though, or people like me will feel we have to raid to play the game, to get those skins, the one thing we didn’t have to do before.

Raiding people don’t just want challenge, they want reward for challenge…at least many of them have asked for that. Start gating skins behind the hardest content in the game and people will want the “best” or coolest looking skins. And if you don’t want to raid you then have to choose to raid, or not have those skins.

Dungeons weren’t quite as bad, and still some people had problems with that. Of course, now there’s a PvP track that allows you to get dungeon rewards, so you at least have another option. But raiders also tend to want exclusive, unique rewards. Then you end up again with the haves and have nots. If the haves happen to be a smaller group, and the have nots is a much bigger group. you’ll end up kittening off your core players.

It doesn’t HAVE TO happen like that, but it sure could. And from what I’ve seen of what raiders want reward wise, that’s where the problem lies.

Yeah, could, you must agree that’s on ANet hands though.

As is whether or not they make raids. That’s also in their hands.

That was not the point of my posts, my point is that the excuses given for not implementing raids are too much biased and anticipated, and are a pure contradiction to ANet core philosophies about gear treadmill and making something mandatory. People shouldn’t be questioning these two points and basing their opinions on them (which they are doing).

Vayne.8563:

It amazes me how people only see things from one point of view and seem incapable of seeing how others can for a different one, even though this view is shared by so many. So maybe, just maybe, there’s a reason for it.

Many people holding a view does not make that view correct. And not everything is a matter of perspective.

Any piece of content attempted with more than a certain critical mass of players will degrade into something that players cannot engage with or appreciate. The sheer mass of players will make meaningful participation difficult thanks to things like culling, framerate drops, skill lag, and things being obscured by players, numbers, and particle effects. At the same time, the sheer mass of players also eliminates both the social and gameplay pressures that would require those players to actually try.

So something has to stop such a critical mass of players from attempting any piece of content worthy of appreciation. And from this, it follows that true instanced raids really are critical. Nobody to date has found a way to do this, without violating the spirit of GW2 with mechanics like friendly fire, kill-stealing, and competition for loot.

As for rewards, engaging with content has to be more rewarding than not engaging with content, otherwise people won’t engage with the content, in which case it might as well not exist. That’s why instanced PvE content is a good idea in the first place.

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Sure it’s feasible. Let’s hope they don’t hide all the best skins behind raiding though, or people like me will feel we have to raid to play the game, to get those skins, the one thing we didn’t have to do before.

Raiding people don’t just want challenge, they want reward for challenge…at least many of them have asked for that. Start gating skins behind the hardest content in the game and people will want the “best” or coolest looking skins. And if you don’t want to raid you then have to choose to raid, or not have those skins.

Dungeons weren’t quite as bad, and still some people had problems with that. Of course, now there’s a PvP track that allows you to get dungeon rewards, so you at least have another option. But raiders also tend to want exclusive, unique rewards. Then you end up again with the haves and have nots. If the haves happen to be a smaller group, and the have nots is a much bigger group. you’ll end up kittening off your core players.

It doesn’t HAVE TO happen like that, but it sure could. And from what I’ve seen of what raiders want reward wise, that’s where the problem lies.

Yeah, could, you must agree that’s on ANet hands though.

As is whether or not they make raids. That’s also in their hands.

That was not the point of my posts, my point is that the excuses given for not implementing raids are too much biased and anticipated, and are a pure contradiction to ANet core philosophies about gear treadmill and making something mandatory. People shouldn’t be questioning these two points and basing their opinions on them (which they are doing).

And the point of my posts are that the raid “lobby” is so loud and so insistent that it can affect the direction of games, or at very least convince other people that they’re some sort of huge majority…which I don’t think they are.

Nothing I say will stop Anet from making raids if that’s what they want to do. But my comfort levels would go down if raiding was introduced. It would certainly have to be done carefully. I think we might be seeing a completely new type of raid, and as such, maybe it doesn’t need to be called a raid.

That would solve a lot of problems.

evilunderling.9265:

Vayne.8563:

It amazes me how people only see things from one point of view and seem incapable of seeing how others can for a different one, even though this view is shared by so many. So maybe, just maybe, there’s a reason for it.

Many people holding a view does not make that view correct. And not everything is a matter of perspective.

Any piece of content attempted with more than a certain critical mass of players will degrade into something that players cannot engage with or appreciate. The sheer mass of players will make meaningful participation difficult thanks to things like culling, framerate drops, skill lag, and things being obscured by players, numbers, and particle effects. At the same time, the sheer mass of players also eliminates both the social and gameplay pressures that would require those players to actually try.

So something has to stop such a critical mass of players from attempting any piece of content worthy of appreciation. And from this, it follows that true instanced raids really are critical. Nobody to date has found a way to do this, without violating the spirit of GW2 with mechanics like friendly fire, kill-stealing, and competition for loot.

As for rewards, engaging with content has to be more rewarding than not engaging with content, otherwise people won’t engage with the content, in which case it might as well not exist. That’s why instanced PvE content is a good idea in the first place.

I agree some of what you said. But I think there are ways to deal with the zerg mentality without actually making raids. In some ways, it’s already been done in parts of the game.

The other thing is that you say that just because a mass of people believes something doesn’t make it right. That’s true. It doesn’t make them wrong either.

And right or wrong, if a mass of people believe something, if enough believe it, whether they’re right or wrong it can still affect the game.

a red post, from colin?! oh boy, time to get on the hype train boys

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Sure it’s feasible. Let’s hope they don’t hide all the best skins behind raiding though, or people like me will feel we have to raid to play the game, to get those skins, the one thing we didn’t have to do before.

Raiding people don’t just want challenge, they want reward for challenge…at least many of them have asked for that. Start gating skins behind the hardest content in the game and people will want the “best” or coolest looking skins. And if you don’t want to raid you then have to choose to raid, or not have those skins.

Dungeons weren’t quite as bad, and still some people had problems with that. Of course, now there’s a PvP track that allows you to get dungeon rewards, so you at least have another option. But raiders also tend to want exclusive, unique rewards. Then you end up again with the haves and have nots. If the haves happen to be a smaller group, and the have nots is a much bigger group. you’ll end up kittening off your core players.

It doesn’t HAVE TO happen like that, but it sure could. And from what I’ve seen of what raiders want reward wise, that’s where the problem lies.

Yeah, could, you must agree that’s on ANet hands though.

As is whether or not they make raids. That’s also in their hands.

That was not the point of my posts, my point is that the excuses given for not implementing raids are too much biased and anticipated, and are a pure contradiction to ANet core philosophies about gear treadmill and making something mandatory. People shouldn’t be questioning these two points and basing their opinions on them (which they are doing).

And the point of my posts are that the raid “lobby” is so loud and so insistent that it can affect the direction of games, or at very least convince other people that they’re some sort of huge majority…which I don’t think they are.

Nothing I say will stop Anet from making raids if that’s what they want to do. But my comfort levels would go down if raiding was introduced. It would certainly have to be done carefully. I think we might be seeing a completely new type of raid, and as such, maybe it doesn’t need to be called a raid.

That would solve a lot of problems.

Vayne, I just don’t get why your comfort levels would go down and why the name kind of bother you, and the others for that matter. I too think it’s not major priority, what I can’t digest is the way people perceive their introduction and constantly retaliate with (excuse me the word) nosense excuses. Most of the times they’re not even constructive. IMO if you don’t like certain stuff and aren’t going to critique in a constructive way, then you shouldn’t be babbling for refusal at all.

Call it however you want, just don’t deny people aren’t requesting, and don’t judge beforehand stating it’s bad before knowing how ANet will implement their raids. Things that didn’t quite work well and fell into oblivion or were removed from the game include: Raid on the Capricon pvp map, Obsidian Sanctum (few uses), and current trait system. The devs are bold enough to try and remake stuff, or remove them if they don’t feel it’s right, they’re not afraid to try, and they will, given certain constraints.

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Sure it’s feasible. Let’s hope they don’t hide all the best skins behind raiding though, or people like me will feel we have to raid to play the game, to get those skins, the one thing we didn’t have to do before.

Raiding people don’t just want challenge, they want reward for challenge…at least many of them have asked for that. Start gating skins behind the hardest content in the game and people will want the “best” or coolest looking skins. And if you don’t want to raid you then have to choose to raid, or not have those skins.

Dungeons weren’t quite as bad, and still some people had problems with that. Of course, now there’s a PvP track that allows you to get dungeon rewards, so you at least have another option. But raiders also tend to want exclusive, unique rewards. Then you end up again with the haves and have nots. If the haves happen to be a smaller group, and the have nots is a much bigger group. you’ll end up kittening off your core players.

It doesn’t HAVE TO happen like that, but it sure could. And from what I’ve seen of what raiders want reward wise, that’s where the problem lies.

Yeah, could, you must agree that’s on ANet hands though.

As is whether or not they make raids. That’s also in their hands.

That was not the point of my posts, my point is that the excuses given for not implementing raids are too much biased and anticipated, and are a pure contradiction to ANet core philosophies about gear treadmill and making something mandatory. People shouldn’t be questioning these two points and basing their opinions on them (which they are doing).

And the point of my posts are that the raid “lobby” is so loud and so insistent that it can affect the direction of games, or at very least convince other people that they’re some sort of huge majority…which I don’t think they are.

Nothing I say will stop Anet from making raids if that’s what they want to do. But my comfort levels would go down if raiding was introduced. It would certainly have to be done carefully. I think we might be seeing a completely new type of raid, and as such, maybe it doesn’t need to be called a raid.

That would solve a lot of problems.

Vayne, I just don’t get why your comfort levels would go down and why the name kind of bother you, and the others for that matter. I too think it’s not major priority, what I can’t digest is the way people perceive their introduction and constantly retaliate with (excuse me the word) nosense excuses. Most of the times they’re not even constructive. IMO if you don’t like certain stuff and aren’t going to critique in a constructive way, then you shouldn’t be babbling for refusal at all.

Call it however you want, just don’t deny people aren’t requesting, and don’t judge beforehand stating it’s bad before knowing how ANet will implement their raids. Things that didn’t quite work well and fell into oblivion or were removed from the game include: Raid on the Capricon pvp map, Obsidian Sanctum (few uses), and current trait system. The devs are bold enough to try and remake stuff, or remove them if they don’t feel it’s right, they’re not afraid to try, and they will, given certain constraints.

I couldn’t disagree with this more. People say don’t introduce mounts. Don’t introduce open world PvP. Don’t introduce this, don’t introduce that. Everyone who pays for this game has a right to say what they want the devs to be working on and NO ONE shouldn’t be telling them that they are wrong for exercising that right.

That said, a person’s comfort zone, for many, is key to the success of the game, whether that’s fair or not fair. I don’t play games with open world PvP because I don’t like design decisions made around it, which DO affect my game.

I’ve never EVER played a game with raids where the raids didn’t have some affect on me, thus I have every right to say I don’t want them here.

Just want to say I 100% agree with the folks saying “no please leave some easy content.”

While personally I want as much challenging content as possible I think it should be the Grilled Onions and seasoning on your Steak. At the heart the meat of the content would be your typical “open to everyone” stuff, but with that extra flavor for us to bang our heads on when we want it. Big chunk of meat with no flavor isn’t as good as a well seasoned steak, but you don’t just eat a pile of onions and seasoning either (well most don’t… I think I could, <3 onions).

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Sure it’s feasible. Let’s hope they don’t hide all the best skins behind raiding though, or people like me will feel we have to raid to play the game, to get those skins, the one thing we didn’t have to do before.

Raiding people don’t just want challenge, they want reward for challenge…at least many of them have asked for that. Start gating skins behind the hardest content in the game and people will want the “best” or coolest looking skins. And if you don’t want to raid you then have to choose to raid, or not have those skins.

Dungeons weren’t quite as bad, and still some people had problems with that. Of course, now there’s a PvP track that allows you to get dungeon rewards, so you at least have another option. But raiders also tend to want exclusive, unique rewards. Then you end up again with the haves and have nots. If the haves happen to be a smaller group, and the have nots is a much bigger group. you’ll end up kittening off your core players.

It doesn’t HAVE TO happen like that, but it sure could. And from what I’ve seen of what raiders want reward wise, that’s where the problem lies.

Yeah, could, you must agree that’s on ANet hands though.

As is whether or not they make raids. That’s also in their hands.

That was not the point of my posts, my point is that the excuses given for not implementing raids are too much biased and anticipated, and are a pure contradiction to ANet core philosophies about gear treadmill and making something mandatory. People shouldn’t be questioning these two points and basing their opinions on them (which they are doing).

And the point of my posts are that the raid “lobby” is so loud and so insistent that it can affect the direction of games, or at very least convince other people that they’re some sort of huge majority…which I don’t think they are.

Nothing I say will stop Anet from making raids if that’s what they want to do. But my comfort levels would go down if raiding was introduced. It would certainly have to be done carefully. I think we might be seeing a completely new type of raid, and as such, maybe it doesn’t need to be called a raid.

That would solve a lot of problems.

Vayne, I just don’t get why your comfort levels would go down and why the name kind of bother you, and the others for that matter. I too think it’s not major priority, what I can’t digest is the way people perceive their introduction and constantly retaliate with (excuse me the word) nosense excuses. Most of the times they’re not even constructive. IMO if you don’t like certain stuff and aren’t going to critique in a constructive way, then you shouldn’t be babbling for refusal at all.

Call it however you want, just don’t deny people aren’t requesting, and don’t judge beforehand stating it’s bad before knowing how ANet will implement their raids. Things that didn’t quite work well and fell into oblivion or were removed from the game include: Raid on the Capricon pvp map, Obsidian Sanctum (few uses), and current trait system. The devs are bold enough to try and remake stuff, or remove them if they don’t feel it’s right, they’re not afraid to try, and they will, given certain constraints.

I couldn’t disagree with this more. People say don’t introduce mounts. Don’t introduce open world PvP. Don’t introduce this, don’t introduce that. Everyone who pays for this game has a right to say what they want the devs to be working on and NO ONE shouldn’t be telling them that they are wrong for exercising that right.

That said, a person’s comfort zone, for many, is key to the success of the game, whether that’s fair or not fair. I don’t play games with open world PvP because I don’t like design decisions made around it, which DO affect my game.

I’ve never EVER played a game with raids where the raids didn’t have some affect on me, thus I have every right to say I don’t want them here.

They can say whatever they want, fine, just don’t be alarmed when shallow posts from people with nonsense reasons are completely ignored.

Vayne.8563:

I agree some of what you said. But I think there are ways to deal with the zerg mentality without actually making raids. In some ways, it’s already been done in parts of the game.

To a point, it is something you can avoid with content design, yes. But if your content designer also has to also work around a whole bunch of extra problems because the content in question isn’t instanced, that is itself is going to affect the quality of the content they design.

evilunderling.9265:

Vayne.8563:

I agree some of what you said. But I think there are ways to deal with the zerg mentality without actually making raids. In some ways, it’s already been done in parts of the game.

To a point, it is something you can avoid with content design, yes. But if your content designer also has to also work around a whole bunch of extra problems because the content in question isn’t instanced, that is itself is going to affect the quality of the content they design.

I strongly suspect Anet doesn’t want to add a lot fo instanced content to this game. I guess we’ll soon see if I’m right or not.

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Sure it’s feasible. Let’s hope they don’t hide all the best skins behind raiding though, or people like me will feel we have to raid to play the game, to get those skins, the one thing we didn’t have to do before.

Raiding people don’t just want challenge, they want reward for challenge…at least many of them have asked for that. Start gating skins behind the hardest content in the game and people will want the “best” or coolest looking skins. And if you don’t want to raid you then have to choose to raid, or not have those skins.

Dungeons weren’t quite as bad, and still some people had problems with that. Of course, now there’s a PvP track that allows you to get dungeon rewards, so you at least have another option. But raiders also tend to want exclusive, unique rewards. Then you end up again with the haves and have nots. If the haves happen to be a smaller group, and the have nots is a much bigger group. you’ll end up kittening off your core players.

It doesn’t HAVE TO happen like that, but it sure could. And from what I’ve seen of what raiders want reward wise, that’s where the problem lies.

Yeah, could, you must agree that’s on ANet hands though.

As is whether or not they make raids. That’s also in their hands.

That was not the point of my posts, my point is that the excuses given for not implementing raids are too much biased and anticipated, and are a pure contradiction to ANet core philosophies about gear treadmill and making something mandatory. People shouldn’t be questioning these two points and basing their opinions on them (which they are doing).

And the point of my posts are that the raid “lobby” is so loud and so insistent that it can affect the direction of games, or at very least convince other people that they’re some sort of huge majority…which I don’t think they are.

Nothing I say will stop Anet from making raids if that’s what they want to do. But my comfort levels would go down if raiding was introduced. It would certainly have to be done carefully. I think we might be seeing a completely new type of raid, and as such, maybe it doesn’t need to be called a raid.

That would solve a lot of problems.

Vayne, I just don’t get why your comfort levels would go down and why the name kind of bother you, and the others for that matter. I too think it’s not major priority, what I can’t digest is the way people perceive their introduction and constantly retaliate with (excuse me the word) nosense excuses. Most of the times they’re not even constructive. IMO if you don’t like certain stuff and aren’t going to critique in a constructive way, then you shouldn’t be babbling for refusal at all.

Call it however you want, just don’t deny people aren’t requesting, and don’t judge beforehand stating it’s bad before knowing how ANet will implement their raids. Things that didn’t quite work well and fell into oblivion or were removed from the game include: Raid on the Capricon pvp map, Obsidian Sanctum (few uses), and current trait system. The devs are bold enough to try and remake stuff, or remove them if they don’t feel it’s right, they’re not afraid to try, and they will, given certain constraints.

I couldn’t disagree with this more. People say don’t introduce mounts. Don’t introduce open world PvP. Don’t introduce this, don’t introduce that. Everyone who pays for this game has a right to say what they want the devs to be working on and NO ONE shouldn’t be telling them that they are wrong for exercising that right.

That said, a person’s comfort zone, for many, is key to the success of the game, whether that’s fair or not fair. I don’t play games with open world PvP because I don’t like design decisions made around it, which DO affect my game.

I’ve never EVER played a game with raids where the raids didn’t have some affect on me, thus I have every right to say I don’t want them here.

They can say whatever they want, fine, just don’t be alarmed when shallow posts from people with nonsense reasons are completely ignored.

I’m not the one who generally gets alarmed at decisions made by Anet. I take things pretty much in stride. I lobby for what I want, and if I get it, I get it, if I don’t, I get that other people wanted other stuff.

But sometimes people call posts shallow and and reasons nonsense when they’re not. You may not agree or understand them, but it doesn’t make them invalid.

Vayne.8563:

evilunderling.9265:

Vayne.8563:

I agree some of what you said. But I think there are ways to deal with the zerg mentality without actually making raids. In some ways, it’s already been done in parts of the game.

To a point, it is something you can avoid with content design, yes. But if your content designer also has to also work around a whole bunch of extra problems because the content in question isn’t instanced, that is itself is going to affect the quality of the content they design.

I strongly suspect Anet doesn’t want to add a lot fo instanced content to this game. I guess we’ll soon see if I’m right or not.

No MMO designer wants to. I know the EQ devs would make regular attempts to find a solution that didn’t push players into an instance, it’s just that none of them really worked.

ANet has made some good attempts but they haven’t really pulled it off yet. There are issues with DT/SW/CP type splitting still.

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

Sure it’s feasible. Let’s hope they don’t hide all the best skins behind raiding though, or people like me will feel we have to raid to play the game, to get those skins, the one thing we didn’t have to do before.

Raiding people don’t just want challenge, they want reward for challenge…at least many of them have asked for that. Start gating skins behind the hardest content in the game and people will want the “best” or coolest looking skins. And if you don’t want to raid you then have to choose to raid, or not have those skins.

Dungeons weren’t quite as bad, and still some people had problems with that. Of course, now there’s a PvP track that allows you to get dungeon rewards, so you at least have another option. But raiders also tend to want exclusive, unique rewards. Then you end up again with the haves and have nots. If the haves happen to be a smaller group, and the have nots is a much bigger group. you’ll end up kittening off your core players.

It doesn’t HAVE TO happen like that, but it sure could. And from what I’ve seen of what raiders want reward wise, that’s where the problem lies.

Yeah, could, you must agree that’s on ANet hands though.

As is whether or not they make raids. That’s also in their hands.

That was not the point of my posts, my point is that the excuses given for not implementing raids are too much biased and anticipated, and are a pure contradiction to ANet core philosophies about gear treadmill and making something mandatory. People shouldn’t be questioning these two points and basing their opinions on them (which they are doing).

And the point of my posts are that the raid “lobby” is so loud and so insistent that it can affect the direction of games, or at very least convince other people that they’re some sort of huge majority…which I don’t think they are.

Nothing I say will stop Anet from making raids if that’s what they want to do. But my comfort levels would go down if raiding was introduced. It would certainly have to be done carefully. I think we might be seeing a completely new type of raid, and as such, maybe it doesn’t need to be called a raid.

That would solve a lot of problems.

Vayne, I just don’t get why your comfort levels would go down and why the name kind of bother you, and the others for that matter. I too think it’s not major priority, what I can’t digest is the way people perceive their introduction and constantly retaliate with (excuse me the word) nosense excuses. Most of the times they’re not even constructive. IMO if you don’t like certain stuff and aren’t going to critique in a constructive way, then you shouldn’t be babbling for refusal at all.

Call it however you want, just don’t deny people aren’t requesting, and don’t judge beforehand stating it’s bad before knowing how ANet will implement their raids. Things that didn’t quite work well and fell into oblivion or were removed from the game include: Raid on the Capricon pvp map, Obsidian Sanctum (few uses), and current trait system. The devs are bold enough to try and remake stuff, or remove them if they don’t feel it’s right, they’re not afraid to try, and they will, given certain constraints.

I couldn’t disagree with this more. People say don’t introduce mounts. Don’t introduce open world PvP. Don’t introduce this, don’t introduce that. Everyone who pays for this game has a right to say what they want the devs to be working on and NO ONE shouldn’t be telling them that they are wrong for exercising that right.

That said, a person’s comfort zone, for many, is key to the success of the game, whether that’s fair or not fair. I don’t play games with open world PvP because I don’t like design decisions made around it, which DO affect my game.

I’ve never EVER played a game with raids where the raids didn’t have some affect on me, thus I have every right to say I don’t want them here.

They can say whatever they want, fine, just don’t be alarmed when shallow posts from people with nonsense reasons are completely ignored.

I’m not the one who generally gets alarmed at decisions made by Anet. I take things pretty much in stride. I lobby for what I want, and if I get it, I get it, if I don’t, I get that other people wanted other stuff.

But sometimes people call posts shallow and and reasons nonsense when they’re not. You may not agree or understand them, but it doesn’t make them invalid.

Maybe I get too technical about reasoning, then I’ll just believe they consider technical opinions apart from player wishes.

There are basically two opinions here.

1. I want raids, it will benefit me and harm nobody else who doesn’t want them.

2. I don’t want raids, I hope the people that do want them don’t get them even though it doesn’t have anything to do with me and I can simply not do them and continue doing the stuff I do enjoy.

1 just wants content they would enjoy more and 2 just wants to be selfish jerks.

Zackie.8923:

a red post, from colin?! oh boy, time to get on the hype train boys

Shhhh, the dev is a very timid animal, don’t scare it away or we may never see another one.

Dinks.2478:

There are basically two opinions here.

1. I want raids, it will benefit me and harm nobody else who doesn’t want them.

2. I don’t want raids, I hope the people that do want them don’t get them even though it doesn’t have anything to do with me and I can simply not do them and continue doing the stuff I do enjoy.

1 just wants content they would enjoy more and 2 just wants to be selfish jerks.

Way to ignore what people fear about raids. I won’t repeat it, because I’ve said it already, but this is pretty disingenuous. If you think raids don’t affect a game, it means you like them. I’ve left every raiding game, because raids spill over into other areas of the game, particularly when it comes to rewards.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Vayne.8563:

Way to ignore what people fear about raids. I won’t repeat it, because I’ve said it already, but this is pretty disingenuous. If you think raids don’t affect a game, it means you like them. I’ve left every raiding game, because raids spill over into other areas of the game, particularly when it comes to rewards.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Anet is notoriously bad for rewards. At best the raids would have unique skins, at worst a couple of gold. If you fear the name raid so much, let’s call it a dungeon and oh look, you can already see what kind of rewards those get. Maybe that’s putting it a bit too simplistic but people thinking “gear grind” or other obvious rewards from other games have nothing to fear in the first place. They won’t do it, they won’t even raise the level cap, so it’s all just wild speculation based on absolutely nothing.

Valento.9852:

It’s astonishing how afraid people are from raids, giving every sort of excuse: it will steal resources from doing other content, it will diminish player base, it will create elitism, it doesn’t fit the game because philosophy is casual-friendly (wtf?), we have “great” world bosses which are difficult already (w.t.f.?), it will require too much time spent to complete, just a minority is asking for it, it is not “needed”, etc. Seriously? Is it that hard to understand that it’s OPTIONAL? You don’t have to do? I don’t sPvP, I’m not forced to do it, and yet they’re constantly spending resources on that to make it more attractive, if you compare to PvE and WvW there aren’t as many players playing it, and yet they keep on refining it because they believe in e-sport and that game mode. For Jesus Christ’s sake, just STOP thinking the world revolves around yourselves and be a little less egoistics.

There is a reason Anet used the words “Challenging Group Content” and not “Raids”, the word “Raid” would cause an uproar mostly because people wouldn’t read what that means in the context of GW2.

The only valid concern that I can think of is the community split. If these hard instances are more rewarding than the open world then there is a chance that the open world will be devoid of life. If I recall, close to release, and shortly after, the devs said they don’t want to focus on instanced content as much as other games do, because they want their open world to stay alive and the player base not hidden inside instances. It will be hard, but certainly not impossible, for the devs to change their philosophy on this. I hope they do though, the game needs some harder more structured PVE content.

All other reasons against raids are just non-existent.

There are already skins gated behind 5 man dungeons that have been that way since the release of this game. So how is adding >5 man dungeons (for all intents and purposes that’s all a “raid” is) with more gated skins ANY different at all from what currently exists in the game?

Jerus.4350:

While personally I want as much challenging content as possible I think it should be the Grilled Onions and seasoning on your Steak. At the heart the meat of the content would be your typical “open to everyone” stuff, but with that extra flavor for us to bang our heads on when we want it. Big chunk of meat with no flavor isn’t as good as a well seasoned steak, but you don’t just eat a pile of onions and seasoning either (well most don’t… I think I could, <3 onions).

I absolutely agree. There needs to be a range of different difficulties to content. I quite like the Silverwastes and I think that similar ‘actions’ do have a place in the game.

I do, however, think that there’s also a need for moderate-difficulty content for small and medium-sized groups, as well as hard and ultra-hard content.

Vayne.8563:

Dinks.2478:

There are basically two opinions here.

1. I want raids, it will benefit me and harm nobody else who doesn’t want them.

2. I don’t want raids, I hope the people that do want them don’t get them even though it doesn’t have anything to do with me and I can simply not do them and continue doing the stuff I do enjoy.

1 just wants content they would enjoy more and 2 just wants to be selfish jerks.

Way to ignore what people fear about raids. I won’t repeat it, because I’ve said it already, but this is pretty disingenuous. If you think raids don’t affect a game, it means you like them. I’ve left every raiding game, because raids spill over into other areas of the game, particularly when it comes to rewards.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

That shouldn’t be a problem with this game. It’s actually one of the things I really like about this game. If you simply reward style it shouldn’t have any spill over other than “kitten I want that, guess I’ll give it a try.”

Now of course resource issues are present, but it shouldn’t have the issues that other games see with actual power advantages to raids. It should just be different fun content, a superior replacement to dungeons which simply don’t quite do the trick currently.

So again, I think the only reasonable argument against raids is “no they should just make another open world area” which is fine, I do think most content should be that, but I’d just like a little bit of content that I prefer too, just a little.

maddoctor.2738:

Valento.9852:

It’s astonishing how afraid people are from raids, giving every sort of excuse: it will steal resources from doing other content, it will diminish player base, it will create elitism, it doesn’t fit the game because philosophy is casual-friendly (wtf?), we have “great” world bosses which are difficult already (w.t.f.?), it will require too much time spent to complete, just a minority is asking for it, it is not “needed”, etc. Seriously? Is it that hard to understand that it’s OPTIONAL? You don’t have to do? I don’t sPvP, I’m not forced to do it, and yet they’re constantly spending resources on that to make it more attractive, if you compare to PvE and WvW there aren’t as many players playing it, and yet they keep on refining it because they believe in e-sport and that game mode. For Jesus Christ’s sake, just STOP thinking the world revolves around yourselves and be a little less egoistics.

There is a reason Anet used the words “Challenging Group Content” and not “Raids”, the word “Raid” would cause an uproar mostly because people wouldn’t read what that means in the context of GW2.

The only valid concern that I can think of is the community split. If these hard instances are more rewarding than the open world then there is a chance that the open world will be devoid of life. If I recall, close to release, and shortly after, the devs said they don’t want to focus on instanced content as much as other games do, because they want their open world to stay alive and the player base not hidden inside instances. It will be hard, but certainly not impossible, for the devs to change their philosophy on this. I hope they do though, the game needs some harder more structured PVE content.

All other reasons against raids are just non-existent.

Understandable. In such case, just mimic Marionette: slice a reasonable part of the map, add mechanics there, and work out entrance requirements (eg. players limit), then trigger a player-based or guild-based “lock” to prevent multiple raid openings per overflow (so other guilds can do it). There, people doing raids in a controlled environment using a slice of the map, but it’s purposefully limited to a X amount of players.

Oh, forgot to say that it’s just how Guild Puzzles work. It becomes closed after some time. So it’s not new or “awkward”.

Valento.9852:

maddoctor.2738:

Valento.9852:

It’s astonishing how afraid people are from raids, giving every sort of excuse: it will steal resources from doing other content, it will diminish player base, it will create elitism, it doesn’t fit the game because philosophy is casual-friendly (wtf?), we have “great” world bosses which are difficult already (w.t.f.?), it will require too much time spent to complete, just a minority is asking for it, it is not “needed”, etc. Seriously? Is it that hard to understand that it’s OPTIONAL? You don’t have to do? I don’t sPvP, I’m not forced to do it, and yet they’re constantly spending resources on that to make it more attractive, if you compare to PvE and WvW there aren’t as many players playing it, and yet they keep on refining it because they believe in e-sport and that game mode. For Jesus Christ’s sake, just STOP thinking the world revolves around yourselves and be a little less egoistics.

There is a reason Anet used the words “Challenging Group Content” and not “Raids”, the word “Raid” would cause an uproar mostly because people wouldn’t read what that means in the context of GW2.

The only valid concern that I can think of is the community split. If these hard instances are more rewarding than the open world then there is a chance that the open world will be devoid of life. If I recall, close to release, and shortly after, the devs said they don’t want to focus on instanced content as much as other games do, because they want their open world to stay alive and the player base not hidden inside instances. It will be hard, but certainly not impossible, for the devs to change their philosophy on this. I hope they do though, the game needs some harder more structured PVE content.

All other reasons against raids are just non-existent.

Understandable. In such case, just mimic Marionette: slice a reasonable part of the map, add mechanics there, and work out entrance requirements (eg. players limit), then trigger a player-based or guild-based “lock” to prevent multiple raid openings per overflow (so other guilds can do it). There, people doing raids in a controlled environment using a slice of the map, but it’s purposefully limited to a X amount of players.

Mhm, make pseudo instances within the open world

In the end it’s basically the same thing, just a more natural open feeling.

This is what I instantly thought they may be doing when I saw the Wyvern.

It’s something EQ did way back in like 2001 in the expansion after instances became a thing. They even had it such that you could spectate with open windows to look through. It didn’t really work perfectly there because of the whole “well they’re doing it, now we can’t” thing, but with megaservers GW2 could avoid that problem, though the system would be clunky and you’d have to try to find an open map. It’d be interesting to see done though.

Jerus.4350:

Valento.9852:

maddoctor.2738:

Valento.9852:

It’s astonishing how afraid people are from raids, giving every sort of excuse: it will steal resources from doing other content, it will diminish player base, it will create elitism, it doesn’t fit the game because philosophy is casual-friendly (wtf?), we have “great” world bosses which are difficult already (w.t.f.?), it will require too much time spent to complete, just a minority is asking for it, it is not “needed”, etc. Seriously? Is it that hard to understand that it’s OPTIONAL? You don’t have to do? I don’t sPvP, I’m not forced to do it, and yet they’re constantly spending resources on that to make it more attractive, if you compare to PvE and WvW there aren’t as many players playing it, and yet they keep on refining it because they believe in e-sport and that game mode. For Jesus Christ’s sake, just STOP thinking the world revolves around yourselves and be a little less egoistics.

There is a reason Anet used the words “Challenging Group Content” and not “Raids”, the word “Raid” would cause an uproar mostly because people wouldn’t read what that means in the context of GW2.

The only valid concern that I can think of is the community split. If these hard instances are more rewarding than the open world then there is a chance that the open world will be devoid of life. If I recall, close to release, and shortly after, the devs said they don’t want to focus on instanced content as much as other games do, because they want their open world to stay alive and the player base not hidden inside instances. It will be hard, but certainly not impossible, for the devs to change their philosophy on this. I hope they do though, the game needs some harder more structured PVE content.

All other reasons against raids are just non-existent.

Understandable. In such case, just mimic Marionette: slice a reasonable part of the map, add mechanics there, and work out entrance requirements (eg. players limit), then trigger a player-based or guild-based “lock” to prevent multiple raid openings per overflow (so other guilds can do it). There, people doing raids in a controlled environment using a slice of the map, but it’s purposefully limited to a X amount of players.

Mhm, make pseudo instances within the open world

In the end it’s basically the same thing, just a more natural open feeling.

This is what I instantly thought they may be doing when I saw the Wyvern.

It’s something EQ did way back in like 2001 in the expansion after instances became a thing. They even had it such that you could spectate with open windows to look through. It didn’t really work perfectly there because of the whole “well they’re doing it, now we can’t” thing, but with megaservers GW2 could avoid that problem, though the system would be clunky and you’d have to try to find an open map. It’d be interesting to see done though.

It would be somewhat different because the amount of players wouldn’t be like open world zergs. It’s less than that, but surely more than a dungeon (14-24 members). They can fake it and whatnot, call it “Open Air Dungeons”. Whoot! There, our OADs.

OP basing your assumptions on a beta that was said to have only a tiny part of the whole expansion is very brittle.

In all honesty though I will admit that this expansion will probably be lacking as far as what purchasers will actually get since core players are getting the trait system changes and pvp modes.

Valento.9852:

Jerus.4350:

Valento.9852:

maddoctor.2738:

Valento.9852:

It’s astonishing how afraid people are from raids, giving every sort of excuse: it will steal resources from doing other content, it will diminish player base, it will create elitism, it doesn’t fit the game because philosophy is casual-friendly (wtf?), we have “great” world bosses which are difficult already (w.t.f.?), it will require too much time spent to complete, just a minority is asking for it, it is not “needed”, etc. Seriously? Is it that hard to understand that it’s OPTIONAL? You don’t have to do? I don’t sPvP, I’m not forced to do it, and yet they’re constantly spending resources on that to make it more attractive, if you compare to PvE and WvW there aren’t as many players playing it, and yet they keep on refining it because they believe in e-sport and that game mode. For Jesus Christ’s sake, just STOP thinking the world revolves around yourselves and be a little less egoistics.

There is a reason Anet used the words “Challenging Group Content” and not “Raids”, the word “Raid” would cause an uproar mostly because people wouldn’t read what that means in the context of GW2.

The only valid concern that I can think of is the community split. If these hard instances are more rewarding than the open world then there is a chance that the open world will be devoid of life. If I recall, close to release, and shortly after, the devs said they don’t want to focus on instanced content as much as other games do, because they want their open world to stay alive and the player base not hidden inside instances. It will be hard, but certainly not impossible, for the devs to change their philosophy on this. I hope they do though, the game needs some harder more structured PVE content.

All other reasons against raids are just non-existent.

Understandable. In such case, just mimic Marionette: slice a reasonable part of the map, add mechanics there, and work out entrance requirements (eg. players limit), then trigger a player-based or guild-based “lock” to prevent multiple raid openings per overflow (so other guilds can do it). There, people doing raids in a controlled environment using a slice of the map, but it’s purposefully limited to a X amount of players.

Mhm, make pseudo instances within the open world

In the end it’s basically the same thing, just a more natural open feeling.

This is what I instantly thought they may be doing when I saw the Wyvern.

It’s something EQ did way back in like 2001 in the expansion after instances became a thing. They even had it such that you could spectate with open windows to look through. It didn’t really work perfectly there because of the whole “well they’re doing it, now we can’t” thing, but with megaservers GW2 could avoid that problem, though the system would be clunky and you’d have to try to find an open map. It’d be interesting to see done though.

It would be somewhat different because the amount of players wouldn’t be like open world zergs. It’s less than that, but surely more than a dungeon (14-24 members). They can fake it and whatnot, call it “Open Air Dungeons”. Whoot! There, our OADs.

Aye, the question is how do they handle the details. How can you get your friends in with you without being blocked by a random. How do you link all the people together? Do it with private guild unlocks?

Ehh getting a bit ahead of myself, but if I’m right in thinking that is their goal I’m curious to see how they pull it off without it being a clusterkitten of annoyances.

Challenging events with good rewards in GW2 = sci fi.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Simply put: we haven’t announced it yet – when we’re ready to show everything about our plans for challenging content for HoT, we’ll announce it.

More info “when it’s ready”.

So much for the rapid fire of announcements you said a few months back. Sorry to be so critical, but we’ve heard this for a while. This article basically says: We have this, but we’ll talk about it Soon. Kinda hard to be hyped for something we know little or nothing about.

Raids means lot of work to create and fine tuning, something that doesn’t correlate with the low quality low quantity anet standard.