Guild Wars 2

It’s great that ANet added Healers but some of us enjoy tanking, perhaps we could turn Reaper, Scrapper, and Herald into some hard control/tank role.

Healing have been a thing since release. It is nothing new. Tanking on the other hand wouldn’t really work all that well in a game where the main way to survive is avoiding damage rather than soaking it up.

Also the fact that enemies usually aggro to whoever does the most damage to them, makes tanking kinda redundant since you wont keep the mob aggroed to you, unless you had some kinda perma taunt whiz going on

“Tanking” in some way or form has been a thing since release too, just see bunkers in PVP. The reasons tanky specs aren’t used in PVE is because there is no need to hold points /defend an area until help arrives, which is the point of a bunker. Maybe in the raids some players will need to guard a specific area and hold enemies for a while, until the rest of the team can do something else.

But “tanking” as in stand in front, grab threat, and take all hits while the mobs avoid your friends, will never be a thing in this game, and for good reasons. That’s the dullest gameplay mechanic ever created for MMORPGs

lordkrall.7241:

Healing have been a thing since release. It is nothing new. Tanking on the other hand wouldn’t really work all that well in a game where the main way to survive is avoiding damage rather than soaking it up.

And when you do take damage we all have our own heals. Pointless elite spec.

maddoctor.2738:

“Tanking” in some way or form has been a thing since release too, just see bunkers in PVP. The reasons tanky specs aren’t used in PVE is because there is no need to hold points /defend an area until help arrives, which is the point of a bunker. Maybe in the raids some players will need to guard a specific area and hold enemies for a while, until the rest of the team can do something else.

But “tanking” as in stand in front, grab threat, and take all hits while the mobs avoid your friends, will never be a thing in this game, and for good reasons. That’s the dullest gameplay mechanic ever created for MMORPGs

As you can see by the fact that I created this post that there are those of us that do not find Tanking to be boring at all.

You guys realise that they said things will change in HoT right?

You will not be able to just dodge evade HoT content. Healers and tanks will be needed for the new content.

If not, then pretty much all of the elite specs are useless, zerker meta will still rule the game, and they wasted tons of time and money on nothing…

if you mean tank by holding mob attention and controlling position, you can already do this and this has always been a thing and you can do this in any stat combination, even full zerker.

EDIT: tanking in full defense has also already been demonstrate by also combining both the role of healing and tanking into 1 build via clerics BP guard which Skady Valda tried to promote for a while now

Oldirtbeard.9834:

As you can see by the fact that I created this post that there are those of us that do not find Tanking to be boring at all.

As a main tank who has raided WoW since Wrath of the Lich King, I think he’s kind of right that just standing there and taking hits it boring. If Arenanet makes tanking a thing, I don’t want to just stand there while a druid heals me.

Tanking is at its best when you are actively mitigating attacks with defensive cooldowns, strategies, and synergizing with your healers’ cooldown. You have to know what is best to save a cooldown for, what’s OK to let pass.

If done right, tanking in GW2 could actually be a step up from WoW tanking because blocks, dodges, invulns and endure pain are 100% damage mitigation, so having that Shield Stance just in time for a big dragon’s breath and taking a grand total of 0 damage feels infinitely more rewarding as a tank player than in other MMOs, where a strong cooldown gives you maybe 40% damage reduction and you still take a ton of damage.

In fact, I’d like a system where if you have a good tank you don’t even need a healer, and vice versa. Or you could just have a bunch of players that are not fully glass cannon to pass aggro when they have used up all their cooldown.

That said, if tanking ever becomes a thing in this game, I want to tank on my warrior or maybe my guardian, with a huge shield. Making engineers or necros the tank classes would be a stupid idea. Don’t get me wrong, ideally all classes should be viable for all roles, but if you have to get tanking right, at least get it right on the classes that has the “tank minded” playerbase first…

I don’t know about the rest of you guys

But in cleric’s gear on Herald I was face tanking for quite a while.

With a druid by my side I probably wouldn’t even have to use my dodges. xD

uh, necromancers were also designed for attrition in mind, a part of tanking, engineers were originally the kings of control, a vital component to tanking and mob control so by that right they both should be fantastic in that area as well

IllegalChocolate.6938:

uh, necromancers were also designed for attrition in mind, a part of tanking, engineers were originally the kings of control, a vital component to tanking and mob control so by that right they both should be fantastic in that area as well

Mob control in the way engineers did it is not tanking, that is support known as the controller…aka the CCer.

Necro is attrition but lacks the mitigation, known as a DoTer in most MMOs. Massive health pool but again, no real mitigation and frankly not many tools (Reaper on the other hand…has some serious tools to get the job done with the right support so this could work).

Does anyone remember the way they said agro would work way back before launch? Heavy armor and the toughness stat was supposed to have a passive agro increasing effect, thus heavy armor wearers were supposed to have boss agro pretty easily wrapped up. Healing others was also supposed to increase agro (active and passive). Using a shield increased passive agro as well.
Why not just bring this back? It wasn’t guaranteed agro, it simply increased passive agro generation.

Runiir.6425:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

uh, necromancers were also designed for attrition in mind, a part of tanking, engineers were originally the kings of control, a vital component to tanking and mob control so by that right they both should be fantastic in that area as well

Mob control in the way engineers did it is not tanking, that is support known as the controller…aka the CCer.

Necro is attrition but lacks the mitigation, known as a DoTer in most MMOs. Massive health pool but again, no real mitigation and frankly not many tools (Reaper on the other hand…has some serious tools to get the job done with the right support so this could work).

Does anyone remember the way they said agro would work way back before launch? Heavy armor and the toughness stat was supposed to have a passive agro increasing effect, thus heavy armor wearers were supposed to have boss agro pretty easily wrapped up. Healing others was also supposed to increase agro (active and passive). Using a shield increased passive agro as well.
Why not just bring this back? It wasn’t guaranteed agro, it simply increased passive agro generation.

GW2’s design (just like GW1) is built around this idea that we’re not really supposed to have a firm idea of aggro control. We’re supposed to be more reactive to enemy aggro than proactive. There are ways around this, positioning-wise, but in general I think the intent is that no aggro-related plan survives first contact with the enemy totally intact.

The more their weight aggro toward stats we can actually control and measure, the more the combat system loses the “you don’t control aggro, aggro controls you” feel that the Guild Wars games have always kinda had.

Just what the necro needs!

Oldirtbeard.9834:

It’s great that ANet added Healers but some of us enjoy tanking, perhaps we could turn Reaper, Scrapper, and Herald into some hard control/tank role.

They didn’t add “healers” — they added a spec that has a very strong healing component. The point of a “tank” is control foe behavior and there are already plenty of ways to do that.

Bearhugger.4326:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

As you can see by the fact that I created this post that there are those of us that do not find Tanking to be boring at all.

As a main tank who has raided WoW since Wrath of the Lich King, I think he’s kind of right that just standing there and taking hits it boring. If Arenanet makes tanking a thing, I don’t want to just stand there while a druid heals me.

Tanking is at its best when you are actively mitigating attacks with defensive cooldowns, strategies, and synergizing with your healers’ cooldown. You have to know what is best to save a cooldown for, what’s OK to let pass.

If done right, tanking in GW2 could actually be a step up from WoW tanking because blocks, dodges, invulns and endure pain are 100% damage mitigation, so having that Shield Stance just in time for a big dragon’s breath and taking a grand total of 0 damage feels infinitely more rewarding as a tank player than in other MMOs, where a strong cooldown gives you maybe 40% damage reduction and you still take a ton of damage.

In fact, I’d like a system where if you have a good tank you don’t even need a healer, and vice versa. Or you could just have a bunch of players that are not fully glass cannon to pass aggro when they have used up all their cooldown.

That said, if tanking ever becomes a thing in this game, I want to tank on my warrior or maybe my guardian, with a huge shield. Making engineers or necros the tank classes would be a stupid idea. Don’t get me wrong, ideally all classes should be viable for all roles, but if you have to get tanking right, at least get it right on the classes that has the “tank minded” playerbase first…

Tanks also need some kind of enrage mechanic that causes them to become more powerful if they’re ignored, buffs that make everyone else unkillable, or a ton of CC that makes them have a reason to be fought first.

The traditional “You’re a tank, your job isn’t damage, it’s surviving” thing is awful in that it creates a dynamic where every enemy ends up seeming idiotic for actively targetting the /lowest/ priority target that also takes the longest time to kill, every single time.

Eponet.4829:

Tanks also need some kind of enrage mechanic that causes them to become more powerful if they’re ignored, buffs that make everyone else unkillable, or a ton of CC that makes them have a reason to be fought first.

The traditional “You’re a tank, your job isn’t damage, it’s surviving” thing is awful in that it creates a dynamic where every enemy ends up seeming idiotic for actively targetting the /lowest/ priority target that also takes the longest time to kill, every single time.

A tank should focus on survival and control first, but there isn’t a rule that says that a tank character can’t do damage. In fact, tanks in WoW do more damage relative to pure DPS than a Nomad character does vs a Berserker in Guild Wars 2.

In PvP, tanks could just hold points and that would be enough to get them focused on. Giving them a lot of CC would make them annoying when kept alive so that would also get other players to attack them. Not to mention that Taunt works on players in this game.

In PvE, the AI will do whatever it wants. We’ll have to see what happens. If Arenanet decides that a boss is not tankable, it will have a chaotic AI that attack random people or that snaps aggro onto berserkers, and the only thing you’ll be able to do to save them is taunt. If they decide that a boss is tankable, they could just do something like making the boss snap on the last character that used taunted, or that gets angry when you block them.

maddoctor.2738:

“Tanking” in some way or form has been a thing since release too, just see bunkers in PVP. The reasons tanky specs aren’t used in PVE is because there is no need to hold points /defend an area until help arrives, which is the point of a bunker. Maybe in the raids some players will need to guard a specific area and hold enemies for a while, until the rest of the team can do something else.

You have never heard of a “Dedicated tank” i believe and you assume it being dull for EVERYONE is hilarious

lordkrall.7241:

Healing have been a thing since release. It is nothing new. Tanking on the other hand wouldn’t really work all that well in a game where the main way to survive is avoiding damage rather than soaking it up.

You have never heard of a “Dedicated healer” lmao

JVJD.4912:

maddoctor.2738:

“Tanking” in some way or form has been a thing since release too, just see bunkers in PVP. The reasons tanky specs aren’t used in PVE is because there is no need to hold points /defend an area until help arrives, which is the point of a bunker. Maybe in the raids some players will need to guard a specific area and hold enemies for a while, until the rest of the team can do something else.

You have never heard of a “Dedicated tank” i believe and you assume it being dull for EVERYONE is hilarious

lordkrall.7241:

Healing have been a thing since release. It is nothing new. Tanking on the other hand wouldn’t really work all that well in a game where the main way to survive is avoiding damage rather than soaking it up.

You have never heard of a “Dedicated healer” lmao

Dont understand the obsession with trinity, in non-action combat games its boring and mundane (Tanking in a nutshell: stand, move abit, press some buttons. Healing in a nutshell: Move around a bit heal tank, heal stupid DPS’, repeat).

Frankly id be down for trinity if it was handled as well as it is in some action combat games (TERA, Dragon Nest, Vindi, etc.) but I’m honestly not in the mood to remain in a LFG for hours waiting for someone to fulfill some role (perks of running support in most MMO’s was that I was ALWAYS needed and never had issues getting into parties.

Anyway Druid really has shaken things up on how we view classes and support capabilities but I would be so quick to believe this a sign that a dedicated trinity will be making its way into GW2 soon

If you look in the lfg tool, there are already enough groups looking for this class and that equipment only who are willing to wait for their choice to appear while being equallly unwilling to accept some class that can get the job done but is only second best in it. So if we´re honest we never left the required role party pose, it was just recruited from a larger pool of people and not only Tanks and Healers.

Bearhugger.4326:

Eponet.4829:

Tanks also need some kind of enrage mechanic that causes them to become more powerful if they’re ignored, buffs that make everyone else unkillable, or a ton of CC that makes them have a reason to be fought first.

The traditional “You’re a tank, your job isn’t damage, it’s surviving” thing is awful in that it creates a dynamic where every enemy ends up seeming idiotic for actively targetting the /lowest/ priority target that also takes the longest time to kill, every single time.

A tank should focus on survival and control first, but there isn’t a rule that says that a tank character can’t do damage. In fact, tanks in WoW do more damage relative to pure DPS than a Nomad character does vs a Berserker in Guild Wars 2..

That’s actually true, I was referring to what I tended to see people complaining about on the forums, in that tanks did too much damage, and that they shouldn’t be.

I’m quite happy with requiring a couple of people to run like, 80-90% of the damage a glass cannon would do in exchange for picking up some durability or healing. You can see this sort of design occuring in the Valkyrie/Cavalier reaper, and people are actually excited by it to the point where it’s considered one of the best elite specs.

The thing I’m worried about is that we’ll end up with people being forced into running nomad/cleric gear where every attack feels so unsatisfying because you know that it has virtually no effect.

JVJD.4912:

You have never heard of a “Dedicated healer” lmao

Yes, I have heard of a “Dedicated healer”. I have played other games than GW2. But there is nothing in this game that is a dedicated healer.

Of course you tank! but you have to do it outside the game.

Kill.3458:

Dont understand the obsession with trinity, in non-action combat games its boring and mundane (Tanking in a nutshell: stand, move abit, press some buttons. Healing in a nutshell: Move around a bit heal tank, heal stupid DPS’, repeat).

Yep, I can see you don’t understand it.

I’ve got a neutral stance on this. There’s just so many possibilities to make an interesting game, that you don’t have to one tried schematic, I wouldn’t mind if they re-used the concept of “tanking” and “healing” roles if they could fit it into the game’s combat style and design.

Why?
Because the role system is not the biggest contribution to how interesting structured PvE is. The encounters are. You can have interesting encounters in the behated “trinity” system. You can have boring encounters in GW2’s dynamic role system.

I don’t understand the strong feelings against it. From your (and many others’ posts) I see you’ve either no idea how a real game with such system looks like, or you just really personally dislike it so much that you have to exaggerate. Accept that there’s a lot of people that prefer it this way, and a lot that prefer the other way.

Runiir.6425:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

uh, necromancers were also designed for attrition in mind, a part of tanking, engineers were originally the kings of control, a vital component to tanking and mob control so by that right they both should be fantastic in that area as well

Mob control in the way engineers did it is not tanking, that is support known as the controller…aka the CCer.

Necro is attrition but lacks the mitigation, known as a DoTer in most MMOs. Massive health pool but again, no real mitigation and frankly not many tools (Reaper on the other hand…has some serious tools to get the job done with the right support so this could work).

Does anyone remember the way they said agro would work way back before launch? Heavy armor and the toughness stat was supposed to have a passive agro increasing effect, thus heavy armor wearers were supposed to have boss agro pretty easily wrapped up. Healing others was also supposed to increase agro (active and passive). Using a shield increased passive agro as well.
Why not just bring this back? It wasn’t guaranteed agro, it simply increased passive agro generation.

Thumper turret kiting or tool kit kiting with heavy toughness is a form of tanking but in that case avoidance tanking which is considered a valid form of tanking (tera online warriors were considered avoidance tanks for a while), supplemented with net turret, moss man generally doesn’t move an inch.

You still use your own body as the main source of attention as an engineer control spec, the turrets like net turret help supplement on top of the most reliable source of cripple in the game which is tool kit auto I don’t see why it can’t be called tanking especially with the availability of some of the shortest CD blocks in the game coupled with again, your main source of padding is through your own toughness that you wear, its just there to pad between your cripples, immo, and your blocks.

Using a tank engineer has worked and is well up there along with BP healing guard.

lordkrall.7241:

Yes, I have heard of a “Dedicated healer”. I have played other games than GW2. But there is nothing in this game that is a dedicated healer.

How would you call a guy that sit 100% in water attunement wearing nomad’s gear?

rotten.9753:

How would you call a guy that sit 100% in water attunement wearing nomad’s gear?

Stupid?
Not to mention the fact that most skills do more than just heal. All of them have an offensive part to them as well.

lordkrall.7241:

Stupid?
Not to mention the fact that most skills do more than just heal. All of them have an offensive part to them as well.

I didn’t realise geyser and healing rain had offensive components. Anyway, this hypothetical ele could be quite strong in a content where there is a lot of pressure. Let’s not cheat ourselves and claim that you can dodge everything.

Ah, my bad. There are a few skills that does not have offensive components. They do have more than healing components though. At least Healing Rain.

Clearing condies is a reactive support, same as common healing.

Not all conditions are doing damage, thus cleansing those aren’t really healing but rather support.

Which is what I wrote -.-

But we were discussing “Dedicated healer”. Support is more than healing.

Dedicated healer doesn’t just heal. They always have some kind of cleansing DoTs or proactive support but not that much.

Leto Atreides II.2153:

Kill.3458:

Dont understand the obsession with trinity, in non-action combat games its boring and mundane (Tanking in a nutshell: stand, move abit, press some buttons. Healing in a nutshell: Move around a bit heal tank, heal stupid DPS’, repeat).

Yep, I can see you don’t understand it.

I’ve got a neutral stance on this. There’s just so many possibilities to make an interesting game, that you don’t have to one tried schematic, I wouldn’t mind if they re-used the concept of “tanking” and “healing” roles if they could fit it into the game’s combat style and design.

Why?
Because the role system is not the biggest contribution to how interesting structured PvE is. The encounters are. You can have interesting encounters in the behated “trinity” system. You can have boring encounters in GW2’s dynamic role system.

I don’t understand the strong feelings against it. From your (and many others’ posts) I see you’ve either no idea how a real game with such system looks like, or you just really personally dislike it so much that you have to exaggerate. Accept that there’s a lot of people that prefer it this way, and a lot that prefer the other way.

Oh please I know what tanking/healing is, as mentioned i’ve come from games where I played entirely support roles (frankly I love being a tank in games where the combat system was more action based such as DCUO, Dragon Nest, TERA). I said i’d be perfectly down with ANet including a trinity if its handled as well as it was in those games, honestly had a blast playing a tank in DCUO from past experiences.

If you noticed I said mundane support from non-action based MMO’s which honestly in a nutshell is exactly what I spoke on, its one of the reasons that despite everything I just couldn’t get into playing WoW.

I would like to see a “tank” just like we now have a “healer”

Druid isn’t going to just keep a party alive for a long amount of time that’s getting beaten by a group of mobs. But it heals and i hope it will be useful.

I think gw2 could use a “tank” that controls enemies, blocks AND dodges attacks (not just facetanking & being a hp sponge) to migitate damage on allies.

It would be a nice thing to have shield skills (for all shield wielding professions) have some kind of taunt on them.

I know a lot of people got bored of the ‘trinity’ in other mmo’s (non action combat based ones.)
But in an action combat mmo like GW I can see it as a very fun thing to do.

Just because the TANK IS TANKING doesn’t mean that the others should just stand there spamming their rotation. Mobs & bosses have AOE attacks, Tanks can lose aggro (I think it wouldn’t be too hard to make an aggro system where its not rediculously easy to keep aggro. I think letting 1 guy in the part be able to have aggro 100% of the time would get boring indeed. And some bosses would need more aoe attacks tho.

Just because the HEALER IS HEALING. Doesn’t mean that allies have to be stupid and get hit by every attack. The ‘healer’ will run out of cooldowns to spam or condi cleanses.

But for a system like this to work, the PvE needs to become a LOT harder.

I really like dungeons in games like Tera. A game with action combat WITH trinity.
Tanking doesn’t mean just facetanking/hpsponging bosses till they die. It means being cautious, blocking/dodging at the right time.

Right now zerker too op. Actual teamwork not required. Pve gets boring.

Not saying GW2 needs a trinity. But gw2 does need some kind of teamwork & roles.

There being no roles is another reason why the zerker meta is so strong. Who cares if a DPS dies? There’s still 4 more dps classes killing everything.

If every class has their role, every person matters. Everyone will have to stay alive or the whole party will wipe. More defensive, supportive stats & builds will be needed to prevent anyone from dying.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

It’s great that ANet added Healers but some of us enjoy tanking, perhaps we could turn Reaper, Scrapper, and Herald into some hard control/tank role.

I am planning on taking/heal/ support with my Herald.

Waiting on the BWE 3 to test it out but either going full settler with mace/shield and counting on condi for my damage or Knight/Cleric with sword and shield for physical damage.

Never planned to go dps with that.

Baclavaman.9054:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

It’s great that ANet added Healers but some of us enjoy tanking, perhaps we could turn Reaper, Scrapper, and Herald into some hard control/tank role.

I am planning on taking/heal/ support with my Herald.

Waiting on the BWE 3 to test it out but either going full settler with mace/shield and counting on condi for my damage or Knight/Cleric with sword and shield for physical damage.

Never planned to go dps with that.

What would you recommend for tanking on the Rev, I tried a Herald/Jalis build for an hour on the last beta and got steam rolled a couple times in Verdant Brink as opposed to my Reaper which felt a lot more durable?

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Baclavaman.9054:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

It’s great that ANet added Healers but some of us enjoy tanking, perhaps we could turn Reaper, Scrapper, and Herald into some hard control/tank role.

I am planning on taking/heal/ support with my Herald.

Waiting on the BWE 3 to test it out but either going full settler with mace/shield and counting on condi for my damage or Knight/Cleric with sword and shield for physical damage.

Never planned to go dps with that.

What would you recommend for tanking on the Rev, I tried a Herald/Jalis build for an hour on the last beta and got steam rolled a couple times in Verdant Brink as opposed to my Reaper which felt a lot more durable?

That’s odd, I ran herald/jalis and did just fine… make judicious use of your shield invuln seems key.

@OP go play bunker guard, pvp tank. Tanks by intelligently dodging, using blocks, invulns, and heavily supports allies with boons and healing.

The problem people who want “tanks” don’t get is that your never supposed to be built to do only one thing really really well in this game. Your always supposed to do at least a few things well. Any build that focuses solely on being as tanky as possible will be subpar in this game because you can give up 10% of your tankiness for a bunch of support, control or dps and still be effective as a tank.

As for everyone saying that druid is a dedicated healer. Go read all the actual skills and traits, and realize that druid is more than just a healer. Healing is the central part of the spec, but it isn’t the whole spec. That spec also brings aoe, control, and condi cleanse in abundance that most people seem to be ignoring.

I think gw2 could use a “tank” that controls enemies, blocks AND dodges attacks (not just facetanking & being a hp sponge) to migitate damage on allies.

Guardian and mesmer can basically do this.

guardian: virtue of courage+retreat

mesmer: copying Distortion to allies, copying boons to allies

If tanks, as in other MMOs were added, I’d leave the game. No thought process. I’d actually leave. I wouldn’t make a million posts of the forums. I’d just go silently.

But I’d leave, because to me tanking ruins those other games. For those who don’t want to tank we’re not really fighting at all. We’re just DPSing. If the tank does his job I’m safe. It’s the same with the healer, but in this case at least, it’s not all dependent on the healer. I can still dodge. I still have self heals. There’s still things I can do to stay alive, even if the big guy does go after me.

Vayne.8563:

If tanks, as in other MMOs were added, I’d leave the game. No thought process. I’d actually leave. I wouldn’t make a million posts of the forums. I’d just go silently.

But I’d leave, because to me tanking ruins those other games. For those who don’t want to tank we’re not really fighting at all. We’re just DPSing. If the tank does his job I’m safe. It’s the same with the healer, but in this case at least, it’s not all dependent on the healer. I can still dodge. I still have self heals. There’s still things I can do to stay alive, even if the big guy does go after me.

Well said.

In another game the developers had similar requests about increasing the viability of getting and holding threat. The tools were there but not particularly potent. During a, “balance,” patch the devs lowered DPS based threat while increasing threat for taunts and the like. I spent months of build testing to push my DPS to the point of being able, if I so desired, to out threat virtually any tank build in the game on my DPS character.

I detest the idea of foes ignoring the guy who is hitting the hardest, as well as the healer, in order to focus on the toughest member of the party.

A no thank you on tanking.

The whole core concept of GW2 is that you don’t need a healer/tank to run in a group. Everyone keeps themselves alive and every class has tools to make sure the bad guy gets off of them when they get aggro.

The second you add a spec who’s sole purpose is to draw aggro then you ruin the whole idea of this game. Because now you and a group of players aren’t “fighting a boss”, It’s just your tank fighting while you do pew pew and stab stab from the sidelines. It also seems silly that a giant dragon or monster focuses one target and not the guy who’s shooting giant fireballs at his face. It’s boring. Yes, some people enjoy it. A majority in GW2 don’t.

People like to argue that without trinity there are no strategies in this game and it’s just stack in corner/zerk meta. What people don’t realize is that the scenario is not because there aren’t any defined roles and thus a lack of roles, but because the game isn’t punishing enough or difficult.

Yes, we need tanking. We should really get more build diversity, so after the announcement of druids, we should have dedicated tanks as well.

Vayne.8563:

If tanks, as in other MMOs were added, I’d leave the game. No thought process. I’d actually leave. I wouldn’t make a million posts of the forums. I’d just go silently.

But I’d leave, because to me tanking ruins those other games. For those who don’t want to tank we’re not really fighting at all. We’re just DPSing. If the tank does his job I’m safe. It’s the same with the healer, but in this case at least, it’s not all dependent on the healer. I can still dodge. I still have self heals. There’s still things I can do to stay alive, even if the big guy does go after me.

I very rarely agree with you, but, in this case, I do.

Tanks tend to completely ruin my immersion, not just the fact that they tend to result in straining of disbelief when the enemy decides to strike the most heavily armored person that’s doing the least damage instead of the melee glass cannon right next to them that the boss is quite capable of just instantly killing in a single attack.

On the other hand, certain types of “tanks” are interesting to me, like a sword/pistol thief focused around stripping defiance stacks and then interrupting the deadly attacks that would one shot anyone not in defensive gear so that they never happen/repositioning the boss to more favourable locations with scorpion wire.

Or a reaper that deals almost the same degree of damage as berserker builds while still being ridiculously tanky and becoming more dangerous as the fight goes on if not dealt with, thus making the decision to attack them less ridiculous than it would on say, a nomad mace/shield guardian.

Or a reaper that deals almost the same degree of damage as berserker builds while still being ridiculously tanky and becoming more dangerous as the fight goes on if not dealt with, thus making the decision to attack them less ridiculous than it would on say, a nomad mace/shield guardian.

that’s not a tank build, it’s a tankmage :p

it may be somewhat possible to tank, though it would not be anywhere like a trinity game.

for a start: what is tanking but a form of control? you are preventing people from being hit by making them hit the toughest group member instead of the squishies.

in that vein, look at Retribution Revenant.

they are the only class besides ranger with an on demand taunt, and a low CD one at that (8s I believe). they have the highest base armor, second highest base vit, and fight at close range, so 2/3 of the things that make the class “innately threatening” to enemies, only warrior or someone building for toughness or vitality would be superior.

they have a trait line that almost entirely revolves around dodging and being hit (including the minor adept trait, that lets you dodge more when you get hit), with traits that either improve taunt (taunt when the get CCed, double duration taunt and taunted enemies do less damage to them), or somehow boost their defenses

everything about them just screams “tank”, or, for those who hate the trinity because it does things to your mother and you have a burning hatred for it because of that: “control via misdirection and mitigation”

they can’t just stand there and facetank, their traits won’t let them, and they aren’t 100% efficient at tanking, there WILL be some downtime unless you get multiple revenants, but it IS an option, which is what GW2 is about, OPTIONS, not killing the trinity at the expense of all else, but making it so you don’t NEED a trinity, people need to remember that.

edit:

for an example of “nonrequired tanks” look at Monster Hunter, you can build your armor to have Taunt or Sneak, each of which makes you 20% more or less likely to be targeted, in effct, making a single person “the tank” (they get targeted 40% more), it makes some monsters MUCH easier by having an experienced person tank rather than letting the monster run wild (it will still flatten the tank in a second if they don’t dodge though, hence the “experienced” requirement), conversely, it’s possible to play support, though they are still expected to bring damage, they can build their armor to make their healing items work in an AoE, letting them heal someone who is in the middle of a “you will die without intervention” combo, who could not otherwise heal themself, they can also bring buffs to the table like the MH versions of stablity, might, and protection.

nobody will yell at you because you are ultimately assisting in the survivability of the group, despite not building for pure glass cannon as is the norm

Revenant with Jalis has a taunt skill. That way you can kinda get your tank dream to come true :P