Guild Wars 2

The Mastery System is Arena Nets way of increasing the level cap without actually increasing the level cap. If you think of it that way, it makes sense why continuing through the story requires mastery levels.

Think of it this way, do you get to fight Zhaitan at level 1? No. In fact, most of your personal story comes in “chunks” and you have to level up between story missions.

This is the same exact thing as leveling to continue your personal story.

Eos.6951:

The Mastery System is Arena Nets way of increasing the level cap without actually increasing the level cap. If you think of it that way, it makes sense why continuing through the story requires mastery levels.

Think of it this way, do you get to fight Zhaitan at level 1? No. In fact, most of your personal story comes in “chunks” and you have to level up between story missions.

This is the same exact thing as leveling to continue your personal story.

Because you have to grind them… Colin said this was a no-grind philosophy game. When you go back on a promise, people have the right to be mad.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2tjxe8/pax_announcement_wordforword_transcription_of/

True but you can go and level through any method that gives you xp.

Don’t like grinding anymore in Ascalon? No problem, there is 3 other regions with a zone in your level range.

Here, there is no option. Getting tired of Maguma and the same series of events? Oh well.

Eos.6951:

The Mastery System is Arena Nets way of increasing the level cap without actually increasing the level cap. If you think of it that way, it makes sense why continuing through the story requires mastery levels.

Think of it this way, do you get to fight Zhaitan at level 1? No. In fact, most of your personal story comes in “chunks” and you have to level up between story missions.

This is the same exact thing as leveling to continue your personal story.

I’m pretty sure there were complaints about the personal story chunks too when they changed.

People loved the ability to take on story enemies higher level than them, and, if they were good enough, complete them while below the recommended level in order to test their skills, given that doing them at the recommended level is basically an auto-win.

So… probably not the best analogy.

It used to be that the only reason you couldn’t theoretically face Zhaitan at level 1 was the fact that you’d accidentally level up while getting to him, but you didn’t have to strictly stop and grind levels to do so. The level chunking was a part of the widely hated New Player Experience introduced last year.

Mastery levels on their own are awesome. They work out great, even if they are a bit grindy. But otherwise, the idea is a neat idea.

It’s what they are connected to that is the problem. Mastery on its own is fine like I said, but when you gate other things behind those Masteries, it becomes a problem.

Gating the story behind the Mastery system is an issue, cause you are stuck grinding levels of Mastery just to continue a story that has nothing to do with the Mastery system. I would give some examples, but they would probably contain spoilers, so apologizes.

As for your example, there’s a huge difference. At level 1, we were just commoners coming out to the land. We didn’t know about Zhaitan and all of that. Now, we are Pact Commanders leading the biggest fleet into Mordremoth’s territory to defeat him. We are already accomplished, unlike when we first started as a nobody. We shouldn’t have to “level up” all over again.

Substance E.4852:

True but you can go and level through any method that gives you xp.

Don’t like grinding anymore in Ascalon? No problem, there is 3 other regions with a zone in your level range.

Here, there is no option. Getting tired of Maguma and the same series of events? Oh well.

That’s a good point. Yet when looking through the complaints about needing to level the mastery system it’s rarely mentioned. Though there are 3 maguma maps, just like there’s 3 ascalon maps :P, but I understand what you’re trying to say.

I think the problem here isn’t The Mastery System, but the lack of diversity of things to do in HoT. Which I find odd, because a lot of people grinded the silverwaste like crazy for the past few months without much complaint and that map is much smaller than HoT.

Eos.6951:

The Mastery System is Arena Nets way of increasing the level cap without actually increasing the level cap. If you think of it that way, it makes sense why continuing through the story requires mastery levels.

Think of it this way, do you get to fight Zhaitan at level 1? No. In fact, most of your personal story comes in “chunks” and you have to level up between story missions.

This is the same exact thing as leveling to continue your personal story.

Your skills are not an endgame story boss and you should be ashamed for such a grotesque false equivalency.
The main complaint is that so much is gated behind them. Half the jungle, some story missions, your elite spec via hero challenges, all hidden behind mastery that’s very slow to earn.

The solutions are simple: ANet could’ve designed the first bit of jungle play to NOT be so heavily gated, or ANet could’ve made initial mastery acquisition much faster and kept the later segments slow. Mastery may well be a good system, we don’t know if it is yet, but we do know that the first taste we get of it is extremely unpleasant. You fix that by reducing the demand for the system early on, either by just not employing mastery as much right off the bat or by allowing players to gain the first masteries more quickly. But as it stands, the masteries look to get even more grindy as you go deeper.

But that level up mechanic exists in all MMOs when an expansion is released. GW1 had new skills to grind with each expansion, WoW and many others have a higher level cap, eve has new skills to train, and so on and so forth. There needs to be some driving force beyond player preference to experience each piece of content. Gating that content using the mastery system is the same as having a content gradient across a level cap increase, we just get different ways to complete our journey.

Eos.6951:

Substance E.4852:

True but you can go and level through any method that gives you xp.

Don’t like grinding anymore in Ascalon? No problem, there is 3 other regions with a zone in your level range.

Here, there is no option. Getting tired of Maguma and the same series of events? Oh well.

That’s a good point. Yet when looking through the complaints about needing to level the mastery system it’s rarely mentioned. Though there are 3 maguma maps, just like there’s 3 ascalon maps :P, but I understand what you’re trying to say.

lol I meant mostly like you could go to the Shiverpeaks to hang with the norn in the snow or the Tarnished coast and do some sci-fi Asura stuff.

the problem with the map is 2 fold from what I notice.

1) There isn’t a lot of people on the map which is a bit surprising. Many of these masteries need groups, but there are no groups to be had because of lack of people.

2) You need masteries to progress, which because of point 1, is a bit difficult to progress.

I’m not so sure it’s the halloween event, because I havn’t found a lot of people doing that either. The content itself, I’m not sure about yet in a nutshell. I have absolutely no patience, so once others have figured it out and get decent organized groups on the map I can join, then I’ll decide whether it’s worth it or not.

Alteraphim.4629:

But that level up mechanic exists in all MMOs when an expansion is released. GW1 had new skills to grind with each expansion, WoW and many others have a higher level cap, eve has new skills to train, and so on and so forth. There needs to be some driving force beyond player preference to experience each piece of content. Gating that content using the mastery system is the same as having a content gradient across a level cap increase, we just get different ways to complete our journey.

Not at all. In most other MMOs you’re exposed to it at a comfortable pace. You’re given challenges you can handle with the skills you have. You’re not constantly forced to waste time running down trails that dead end because you don’t have the right mastery, you’re not constantly killed by enemies and mechanics you don’t have the mastery to handle, and you’re not deprived of your core kit so much.

Someone a full day into HoT probably still only has 1-3 skills unlocked in their elite spec and half or less of their traits to choose from. That’s absurd. No one wants to tackle hard new content with a kitten spec gated behind a tedious 16+ hour grind that you have to do on ALL characters.

There are plenty of ways to allow people to progress in the new expansion. Collections are a good example of that. New currencies and crafting are another great example. But gating core gameplay, your new elite spec, feels malicious to players. Not just bad, but punitive.

The Mastery System is Arena Nets way of increasing the level cap without actually increasing the level cap. If you think of it that way, it makes sense why continuing through the story requires mastery levels.

Think of it this way, do you get to fight Zhaitan at level 1? No. In fact, most of your personal story comes in “chunks” and you have to level up between story missions.

This is the same exact thing as leveling to continue your personal story.

I don’t have a problem with them requiring mastery points, with requiring you to explore and unlock things, but I definitely have a problem with the XP grinding in between. I am only tier 4 right now, but have plenty of points to unlock about 14, and it’s the XP grind that is holding me back. There is no way to positively spin XP grind. No Way.

I’d like to start by saying, Thanks, Anet, I’m very happy with the maps and content in HoT thus far. I love flying around on my glider, and handling all sorts of new challenges. I’m a big fan of the exalted faction, and they seem very cool. Guild halls and the new ability to have multiple guild chats at the same time is a huge QoL feature, as is the consume all on items like Essence of Luck. The new WvW borderland maps are very interesting, and are going to change things up a bunch, as well as the new Shield generators look like something that could alter the dynamics of how players take objectives. There are a ton of things in the new Expansion pack that I’m super excited about.

I do have 2 points of contention however, to add to the ongoing discussion of the Heart of Thorns Expansion Pack

1. I feel like I need to gain a TON of exp to get anywhere with the story, half a million for the first step of each, more for every step beyond that. Just doing the first step of each of the HoT masteries takes 2 Million experience points, which feels like a bit much. Additionally, I can’t even use the Writs of Experience on my level 80 character to speed that process along. I understand that it is supposed to be an account wide thing, that should take a while to complete, but this feels a bit excessive. I spent 5 hours today playing, and completed 1 Mastery, and while it was rewarding to glide around the jungle, I’m dreading having to complete longer ones. I see skill points that I want to complete that are on the other side of poisonous vines, and I think to my self, “Oh, I need 4 Million Exp to get that skill point.” which is not a great experience to have. In short, I really like the idea of the Masteries, and the rewards are great, but the reality of having to gain 16 Million Exp in order to beat 1 type of enemy is unpleasant. Many veteran players have gained more than this much experience already, but all it counts for is spirit shards. I would love to see a way to complete the content of HoT without having to resort to doing an event loop over and over until you have the requisite amount of experience earned. At least with the Pact Tyrian Masteries you have the ability to complete Dungeons and Fractals to boost your progression. Please, give us a way to progress the masteries without having to stay explicitly in the HoT maps.

[Off-topic spoiler removed by mod]