Guild Wars 2

Dashingsteel.3410:

They are just called “elite”. There is nothing elite about them. They are on par with any other profession. This isn’t character progression at all. Using the word “elite” gives the illusion that you are working for something that will better you character. These elite traitlines and utilities should cost the same as normal traitlines and utilities.

Yeh im sorry, but Say that to Necromancers, Before this patch were a Joke in the PvE Community, This new specc has obviously brought alot more then “on par” for the Necromancer.

Say that too a Rev, u seen a Rev not using Herald?.. yeh thats cause its Mandatory in their builds to be successful or top tier, lol.

Say that to a Engineer, the Gameplay isnt even Comparable, due to being COMPLETELY different to baseline Engineer, being not only Melee but bringing a Unique feature in their utilities as they are the only ones with it.

Sure the New Elites arnt overpowered but they defintly bring New things to the Proffession that they desperately needed, They stand out alot more then the regular Traitlines due to be Completely different to what the proffession previously offered gameplay wise.

To argue this as a suitable reason to say it should be Lowered is Ridiculous, yeh sure i’d love to see 100 odd taken off the total so ur only farming a Extra 100 instead of 200, but at the end of the day Learn to work for ur characters Progression, if u consider this hard or “grindy” u havnt experienced a MMO outside of GW2.

Back in EQ1 u used to Farm for MONTHS for a Key to ENTER THE kitten RAID ZONE, in even World of Warcraft u spend Months and Months Farming the gear no MMO gives u everything within a week, If they gave everyone everything within a week u’d all get 6months down the line and Complain that u’ve been given everything for nothing and that theres no longjevity or pride in Character Progression.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Chipofsalt.4673:

…
1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.
.

Clipped everything else from your post because really everything else you say is just to support 1. No one is going to disagree with you. We don’t need our elite specialization to play thoug HoT. It comes down to the majority feeling the Elite Specialization should be something we can enjoy the new content with and play though vs receiving it as an end-game award. The Elite Specialization is irrational as an end-game reward because the Elite Specialization introduces a new play mechanic that’s exclusive to Heart of Thorns. Unique items, skins, etc… make sense are end-game rewards a new play mechanic makes absolutely no sense as a end-game reward. It’s beyond irrational, it’s asinine and horrible design by any game design theory you want to apply.

Given the overwelming anger over this many of us have requested ArenaNet provide some rational as to why they have provided unique play mechanics for each class and then have decided to make locked down until end of game. They have elected not to address this question.

I believe they are avoiding the direct question regarding them being end-game rewards, because they know how irrational this design is. Everyone makes mistakes. Just like gating the story chapters with mastery level was a mistake which they realized and change so is the Elite Specialization unlock. The Elite Specialization unlock implementation a MUCH BIGGER mistake because it takes the aspect of the expansion many of us were looking most forward to obtaining and makes it impossible to play the game with that. It’s not acceptable design. It would at least be nice if ArenaNet would address the community and discuss their rational for the design, but they won’t.

I see the design as an implementation put in place to funnel players to the gem store store for boost items over the next month. It’s likely a strategy for raising profits for the quarter earning report and maximizing the utility of the expansion’s release to achieve that goal. Thinking about it, that is the only rational I can come up with and it’s a really back handed thing to do to your player base if that is in fact what’s going on with it. If they continue to stay silent about it and then a few months down the road it changes we’ll have our answer.

It’s not about what we need and don’t need, it comes down to core game features that alter the play mechanic and add fun/value to the content we were paying for. It comes down to common sense game design decisions regarding what to provide as a reward and when to award it. The arguments come down to a certain group of players who’ve lost the last three days of their lives rushing though the entire expanshion who want to come to forums and scream to the community “I don’t see what the big deal is” or “I love it as it’s implemented because now for rushing the expanshion I get to be the one of a handful of Chronomasters, Druids, etc.. on my server”. Pathetic.

Suggestion to more casual players
Give it so some time and perhaps give the PvE side of the game a rest for now. You can unlock hero points in WvW and you can play with your full Elite Spec in sPvP. There are options to enjoy aspects of the game while the PvE side gets flushed out. If some of these things were implemented to maximize gem store purchase at launch they will eventually change. While I think ArenaNet should address the Elite Specialization unlock questions if it is because of revenue never forget that we get ot play each month for free. So ultimately even if this is a tactic to generate revenue don’t hate on them too until it proves to be long term

They’re avoiding it because they can’t actually say why it is the way it is without admitting that there really isn’t all that much content in the expansion. Coupled with the fact that they ruined older stuff to make it look more appealing.

Point – it’s locked behind a huge grind wall to prolong the “experience” and to give people the illusion that the expansion is bigger than it really is. That is literally the only reason why it takes 400 points to unlock the new elite specs instead of 100 or however many every other one costs.

Which pretty sad. This current Arena Net is a shadow of it’s former self.

1 traitline, some utility skills, 1 weapon = 400 hero points…… No, that’s ridiculous

I noticed when you were spouting about reaper being better than necro, herald being better than rev….. How about Tempest? hmmmm….. Berzerker anyone? Dragonhunter? Notice you didn’t mention them.

I feel like a broken record by now.
1) Of course, you DON’T NEED the elite specs to play HoT, b u t that was never, ever the question and main grief to begin with. And hardly anyone asks to get them the moment they activated HoT, just that by the time you unlocked the spec as far to to be useful it shouldn’t be when most of the xpac is already over and there’s nothing left but join the OPVE zerg rush or do fractals/raid-or-die system.

Sure, in other MMOs you need to level the new profession or new race + old profession to max. level as well, but those MMOs offered also in most cases individual starter zones to “spice” things up (matter of taste, though) or had the new profession at a higher starting level, instead of throwing you into max. level zones with an freshly unlocked elite spec.

morrolan.9608:

Vegetation.6419:

I don’t understand why most of you guys feel like you deserve to get your elite spec right away?

Strawman, no-one is saying we should get it immediately without effort.

At least someone else noticed it.

fellyn.5083:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Chipofsalt.4673:

…
1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.
.

Clipped everything else from your post because really everything else you say is just to support 1. No one is going to disagree with you. We don’t need our elite specialization to play thoug HoT. It comes down to the majority feeling the Elite Specialization should be something we can enjoy the new content with and play though vs receiving it as an end-game award. The Elite Specialization is irrational as an end-game reward because the Elite Specialization introduces a new play mechanic that’s exclusive to Heart of Thorns. Unique items, skins, etc… make sense are end-game rewards a new play mechanic makes absolutely no sense as a end-game reward. It’s beyond irrational, it’s asinine and horrible design by any game design theory you want to apply.

Given the overwelming anger over this many of us have requested ArenaNet provide some rational as to why they have provided unique play mechanics for each class and then have decided to make locked down until end of game. They have elected not to address this question.

I believe they are avoiding the direct question regarding them being end-game rewards, because they know how irrational this design is. Everyone makes mistakes. Just like gating the story chapters with mastery level was a mistake which they realized and change so is the Elite Specialization unlock. The Elite Specialization unlock implementation a MUCH BIGGER mistake because it takes the aspect of the expansion many of us were looking most forward to obtaining and makes it impossible to play the game with that. It’s not acceptable design. It would at least be nice if ArenaNet would address the community and discuss their rational for the design, but they won’t.

I see the design as an implementation put in place to funnel players to the gem store store for boost items over the next month. It’s likely a strategy for raising profits for the quarter earning report and maximizing the utility of the expansion’s release to achieve that goal. Thinking about it, that is the only rational I can come up with and it’s a really back handed thing to do to your player base if that is in fact what’s going on with it. If they continue to stay silent about it and then a few months down the road it changes we’ll have our answer.

It’s not about what we need and don’t need, it comes down to core game features that alter the play mechanic and add fun/value to the content we were paying for. It comes down to common sense game design decisions regarding what to provide as a reward and when to award it. The arguments come down to a certain group of players who’ve lost the last three days of their lives rushing though the entire expanshion who want to come to forums and scream to the community “I don’t see what the big deal is” or “I love it as it’s implemented because now for rushing the expanshion I get to be the one of a handful of Chronomasters, Druids, etc.. on my server”. Pathetic.

Suggestion to more casual players
Give it so some time and perhaps give the PvE side of the game a rest for now. You can unlock hero points in WvW and you can play with your full Elite Spec in sPvP. There are options to enjoy aspects of the game while the PvE side gets flushed out. If some of these things were implemented to maximize gem store purchase at launch they will eventually change. While I think ArenaNet should address the Elite Specialization unlock questions if it is because of revenue never forget that we get ot play each month for free. So ultimately even if this is a tactic to generate revenue don’t hate on them too until it proves to be long term

They’re avoiding it because they can’t actually say why it is the way it is without admitting that there really isn’t all that much content in the expansion. Coupled with the fact that they ruined older stuff to make it look more appealing.

Point – it’s locked behind a huge grind wall to prolong the “experience” and to give people the illusion that the expansion is bigger than it really is. That is literally the only reason why it takes 400 points to unlock the new elite specs instead of 100 or however many every other one costs.

Which pretty sad. This current Arena Net is a shadow of it’s former self.

I haven’t played HOT yet, but after reading all these threads, I also got that feeling. Artificial barriers that are there just so players wouldn’t be able to finish too soon while players are left with little to no alternatives.

After playing exclusively my necro/reaper I started fresh with my 100% map completion ranger. Used druid right away and did about 70% map completion with friends withing a couple of hours in Verdant Brink. The only thing I need now is a the grandmaster tier and 2 or 3 skills to completely finish the druid while playing this class.

I don’t see any big grind here. Don’ know what all people are whining about. Forum just shows how spoiled and casualized the game community has become. The pay-to-progress mobile phone generation found it’s way fully into the core game community. Sad but true.

gennyt.3428:

Oh? New weapon + a handful of new skills = elite thus should have astronomical costs? As pretty as the maps are, the expansion largely comes down to hopping around on platforms with pretty much the same skills and weapons you had three years ago to stack up the XP in specific zones so you can keep hopping around on platforms in said zones, hoping and praying that you can interact with something that may or may not be out of reach. It’s great, provided that you like hopping around on platforms and hoping and praying. For me that’s just stretching content with time gated features.

So much this. Even the quests are nothing different. I just re-subscribed to WoW and bought the expansion just so I have something to do while they fix this crap, and the difference in effort from the developer is night and day. The quests and story actually feel unique and fun, not the same exact kitten that has been going on since level one, with platforming added.

Who the hell likes (non-Nintendo) platform games now? No one! Because they are boring. I had to exclude Nintendo, because those kittens know how to make a platform game. How they make it fun every time, I do not know. But Anet is no Nintendo. And this horrid platform element is tedious at best. And their glider isn’t even as good as that other MMO. I forgot which one. Really, gliders are stupid anyway; it’s just companies trying to copy WoW without directly copying WoW. I would take a flying mount any day of the week over these stupid waste-of-time gliders.

Not only that, they did gliders the lazy way. They didn’t update their old content so you could use the gliders there, to make your life easier. Can’t use the gliders anywhere but HoT content. Which makes it even more lame than it already is. Don’t get me wrong, it LOOKS pretty…but functionally, it’s just a bad platforming game.

But all of that I could forgive, and even be mildly content with….if they didn’t lock away the traits and new abilities behind a PvE crap wall. And the PvE is still crap.

You know why? Takes forever to do anything. Not only that, there are pauses in the story. Comparing again to WoW: I started the story, and already I don’t have to slowly cross a map and grind out stupid masteries just to continue the story (which I hear they just fixed? Don’t really care; still too slow-paced and not good). All of that grindy PvE horsekitten between story points, and the story isn’t even that good. And a large part of it not being good is you’re not a PART of the story…you just travel TO the story, through a lot of boring, horrible platforming crap.

Pull your head out of the sand, Proto, and you might see the light.

Drayos.8759:

Sure the New Elites arnt overpowered but they defintly bring New things to the Proffession that they desperately needed, They stand out alot more then the regular Traitlines due to be Completely different to what the proffession previously offered gameplay wise.

To argue this as a suitable reason to say it should be Lowered is Ridiculous, yeh sure i’d love to see 100 odd taken off the total so ur only farming a Extra 100 instead of 200, but at the end of the day Learn to work for ur characters Progression, if u consider this hard or “grindy” u havnt experienced a MMO outside of GW2.

So on one hand, you agree that the new specs, after 3 years of playing the same way with your classes of choice, offer things that were desperately needed. And you really want that feature behind a grindwall?

Drayos.8759:

Back in EQ1 u used to Farm for MONTHS for a Key to ENTER THE kitten RAID ZONE, in even World of Warcraft u spend Months and Months Farming the gear no MMO gives u everything within a week, If they gave everyone everything within a week u’d all get 6months down the line and Complain that u’ve been given everything for nothing and that theres no longjevity or pride in Character Progression.

Really, you’re going to get all “back in my day” on us. This. Is. Not. EQ. You can instantly level a character to 80 in Guild Wars 2. This is by design because the devs rightly figured out that painful grinding is better left to niche games that have less than 100,000 players in them. If you want to grind in GW2, there are legendaries out there with your name on it. Don’t try and rationalize hiding game play mechanics behind a grind wall. Its poor game design in an MMO, especially one where the classes have largely played the exact same for the past 3 years.

Drayos.8759:

…
To argue this as a suitable reason to say it should be Lowered is Ridiculous, yeh sure i’d love to see 100 odd taken off the total so ur only farming a Extra 100 instead of 200, but at the end of the day Learn to work for ur characters Progression, if u consider this hard or “grindy” u havnt experienced a MMO outside of GW2.

Back in EQ1 u used to Farm for MONTHS for a Key to ENTER THE kitten RAID ZONE, in even World of Warcraft u spend Months and Months Farming the gear no MMO gives u everything within a week, If they gave everyone everything within a week u’d all get 6months down the line and Complain that u’ve been given everything for nothing and that theres no longjevity or pride in Character Progression.

MMOs of yesteryear, you mean sub-standard games designed to suck time more than anything else? There is no pride in character progression based on stats due to the fact that it requires no skill.

We’ve played garbage mmos before, we just refuse to play that garbage again. Which one of GW2’s pitch back before release is not to be grindy and in one of the videos it even said that if you don’t like mmos, you should check gw2 out.

Play the game, not the other way around.

captaincrash.6528:

Kaykero.7251:

1) But I and many people paid precisely to do that.
2) But I paid real money for it.
3) But I want to complete the maps with the elite spec. What should I do once I have it fully unlocked? Stand around and not caring for anything because I already did it?
4) The new content is designed to be harder than the core game, so switching a barely useful traitline with one that is not only fully leveled but also complementing my current build and available skills is nonsense. Of course people can technically use them, but you could also technically walk to work instead of drinving your car.
5) That point I do not even care about.

It is a problem: people want to play the new classes, but instead of being able to do that and concentrate on the fun aspects of the game (story, new maps, events) they are forced to rush through, ruining every bit of exploration and immersion. I never expected to have my elite spec unlocked instantly, but through some kind of story or sidequest near the beginning of the new content. Needing 400 hero points, with 60 of them only just unlocking the ability to use a new weapon, is just to kitten much for something I and many other people paid 50 bucks to play as.

When you buy a Zelda game do you cry to Nintendo that you can’t go onto and complete the last dungeon, have all equipment, at the start of the game? Prerelease they marketed progression in this expansion to that of Zelda and Metroid, you knew what you were getting into.

Nice one, just ignore the last statement in my post, what a solid base for a discussion. That is how I like it: just brain diarrhea to read instead of actual insights on why this system of amassing masteries and hero points to play what everybody paid 50 bucks for is not a total kitten-up.

If they release an expansion for a Zelda game and advertise with new stories, items and maps, when in reality I need to farm for hours first so I can even afford the slightest minumum of what was promised and advertised months befoe, than I would be kittened at Ninteno to. I do not differentiate between companies – but a kittened-up system is still kittened-up.

Chipofsalt.4673:

With all of the redundant posts on this forum regarding elite specializations being gated behind a heap of prerequisite hero points, I thought it would be fun to play devil’s advocate. Ultimately, I think the issue isn’t the number of points required to unlock them, but the nature of how difficult the HoT hero challenges are.

Here’s why I believe the hero point requirement should not be changed:

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.
2) It’s an elite spec – it shouldn’t be cheap by its nature.
3) It incentivizes map completion and/or WvW participation.
4) You don’t need the entire line unlocked for it to be used (or even useful).
5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

Most of the complaints I’ve seen about the hero point requirements seem to come from our culture of entitlement (I should get it now – or at least sooner – because I want it now).

That all said, I do think there is a HUGE problem with the fact that it’s almost impossible (or in some cases very difficult) to solo the hero challenges in the new zones. If someone is serious about unlocking their elite specialization, they should be able to do it with or without their friends and guildies.

YAY…..Someone who makes sense. I totally agree. This is a instant world. They want it all and they want it now….Just play, explore and enjoy it. If you get it all now, whats to look forward to. Im enjoying the challenge. Its an accomplishment! The expansion is really well done. Spectacular! Thank you Devs for your hard work and good job on a beautiful new world.

Laniya.9520:

YAY…..Someone who makes sense. I totally agree. This is a instant world. They want it all and they want it now….Just play, explore and enjoy it. If you get it all now, whats to look forward to. Im enjoying the challenge. Its an accomplishment! The expansion is really well done. Spectacular! Thank you Devs for your hard work and good job on a beautiful new world.

What there is to look forward to after having the elite spec – nobody talks about logging in and having everything the expansion offers. Story, map exploration, world completion, heck in my case even the masteries would be things I would look forward to. Instead I grind stuff so I can play the game how it was promised through countless livestreams and previews.

In my ideal world I would’ve played HoT for about two or three hours, have my elite spec fully unlocked and would continue to play the story as my elite spec, instead of playing everything else first because elite spec is so heavily gated that when I get it through natural progression there is not much left to do.

But of course, this would imply that there even is more than three hours content, and that is the problem right there…

Chipofsalt.4673:

That all said, I do think there is a HUGE problem with the fact that it’s almost impossible (or in some cases very difficult) to solo the hero challenges in the new zones. If someone is serious about unlocking their elite specialization, they should be able to do it with or without their friends and guildies.

Many HoT Challenge are soloable (no fight involved).
And you all CT Challenge are soloable (~200pts).

You can unlock you elite without friends/guilides.

Kaykero.7251:

In my ideal world I would’ve played HoT for about two or three hours, have my elite spec fully unlocked and would continue to play the story as my elite spec, instead of playing everything else first because elite spec is so heavily gated that when I get it through natural progression there is not much left to do.

So heavily gated that many players start HoT with half their elite spec unlocked and those who play instead of cry are near or already unlock it fully.

Checked the title, didnt read the thread already know that this is a paid review do NOT trust this user

ProtoGunner.4953:

After playing exclusively my necro/reaper I started fresh with my 100% map completion ranger. Used druid right away and did about 70% map completion with friends withing a couple of hours in Verdant Brink. The only thing I need now is a the grandmaster tier and 2 or 3 skills to completely finish the druid while playing this class.

I don’t see any big grind here. Don’ know what all people are whining about. Forum just shows how spoiled and casualized the game community has become. The pay-to-progress mobile phone generation found it’s way fully into the core game community. Sad but true.

Oh what’s that? You don’t see any grind after having already done full world completion on a character and then going in with most masteries unlocked from your first character? Plus you were playing with people? Well golly, I guess I done goofed in wanting the elite on a class that’s only ever played sPvP before this and not taking three days off work to play it nearly non stop with my guild. Pack it up guys, everything is OK with the current system.

(/sarcasm just in case people don’t catch it.)

Is it really too much to ask to tone down the elite spec unlock cost? I was personally hoping/thinking it was going to be 200 to fully unlock, then 200 for all the extra shinies. That fits much better into their old model imo. Not this crazy 400 point for full unlock thing.

Alright I’ll quickly debunk your points OP:

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.

Sure, we don’t NEED the elite specs to play through HoT, but it would definitely be a lot of fun to be able to play through HoT with the elite specs. A lot of people looked forward to exploring the jungle on their new elite specs and are incredibly dissapointed that they’re not able to do that. By the time you can finally fully enjoy your elite spec, you’ll already be done exploring 100% of all the new HoT maps, or 50% if you have 100% map completion in central Tyria (which most of us have on 1 or 2 characters, but certainly not all).

HoT is already fun the way it is (to me at least), but it would be EVEN MORE fun if we could explore HoT while playing our new elite specs.

2) It’s an elite spec – it shouldn’t be cheap by its nature.

It’s only “elite” in name. The elite specs aren’t actually better than any of the core specs.

Also, no one said they want the elite specs to be easy to acquire (at least not that I’m aware of). We just think that it shouldn’t be the case that we have to complete HoT 100% on each and every character just to unlock our elite specs (or 100% central Tyria + 50% HoT to unlock our elite spec). Almost nobody thinks that is fun.

3) It incentivizes map completion and/or WvW participation.

Which is fine, but why do we have to do it 9 times if we want to be able to enjoy all the elite specs? How is that fun?

Up until now, GW2 has been an incredibly alt-friendly game. This changed when the NPE was released which forced us to do map completion on each and every single alt in order to unlock all their traits. This was received very poorly and the backlash was huge. Anet realized their mistake and fixed it a few months ago.

Now HoT is released and they once again make the exact same mistake with unlocking the elite specializations, and again they get the exact same backlash they got after the NPE release. You’d think Anet would have learned from their mistakes. Clearly they haven’t.

4) You don’t need the entire line unlocked for it to be used (or even useful).

On most classes you do.

Sure, some elite specs can perfectly be used with only a part of the traits and utilities unlocked (dragonhunter and reaper seem to be perfectly playable and viable with only half of it unlocked), but most elite specs are incredibly kitten and completely useless until you unlock their grandmaster traits (daredevil comes to mind).

5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

I’m indifferent about this. I don’t mind that unlocking the elite specs is character-bound, but I also wouldn’t mind if it became account-bound.

What I do mind is the amount of work it takes to fully unlock an elite spec and the fact that I won’t be able to fully enjoy the elite specs until I’ve already finished exploring 100% of all the new HoT maps.

I think characters that have 100% map completion in central Tyria should already have enough hero points to fully unlock their elite spec, while characters without 100% map completion in central Tyria should be able have their elite spec fully unlocked after completing 50% of the new HoT content.

I think the elite spec and the elite spec trait lines need to be separated. Since Anet said there are going to be many elite specs coming as time permits, we should not be bound to elite specs via traits only.

There needs to be a selection for which elite you are going to equip, maybe a primary and secondary slot when 3+ are made available, and then the trait lines are selected. This gives the new options more of an ‘elite’ feeling IMHO.

As it is, going Elite, we are locked out of 1 base/core trait line in order to just equip the stupid thing. So for Characters that only have the 60HP, and maybe 1-2 additional trait unlocks, are hugely nerfed.

Also, these new elite options give classes nothing ‘elite’ in nature. Just seriously overdue bug fixes and class limitation fixes(mesmer +25% swiftness, Guardian LB for better ranged, Necro GS for a proper Melee weapon….ect).

@sirsquishy : “hugely”?
I think you “hugely” exagerate.
There are already people who start Verdant Brink with a not fully unlock Elite Specialisation and have not much trouble from the lack of few traits.

Kulvar.1239:

@sirsquishy : “hugely”?
I think you “hugely” exagerate.
There are already people who start Verdant Brink with a not fully unlock Elite Specialisation and have not much trouble from the lack of few traits.

No, I am not exaggerating. And those people have completed map exploration and such. As where many of us have not (are either not interested or do not have the time). 60HP was easy to obtain before HoT. 180HP~ is also easy to obtain with in HoT. But while you are opening the maps and unlocking masteries to get those easy HP’s your build is nerfed due to the lacking traits/Skills while you are unlocking. And you cannot dispute that.

edit when I say nerfed, I do not mean unplayable or having issues playing the game. Just ‘Limited’ as you ARE locked out of 1 full trait line to equip the specialization.

Kulvar.1239:

So heavily gated that many players start HoT with half their elite spec unlocked and those who play instead of cry are near or already unlock it fully.

So let me understand this: we complain about the massive need for grinding, and your solution to this is “go grind more and you eventually will get what you want”?

…kitten , aren’t you a genius.

Also, do not talk nonsense – i went into the jungle with over 200 HP, and it was barely enough to unlock half of the elite spec because just the unlock costs 60 points. Just because 200 is half of 400 does not mean that you already have access to half of your new spec. And of kitten kittening course people who completed Tyria 100% with several characters have obviosly more time to waste and a natural resistance about grinding than normal people. So your whole argument fails at the point where people do not have map completion on every character they wanted to play in HoT because of the new elite specs – you know, for example PvP players or people who actually want to feel some sort of progress after playing in their little freetime.