Guild Wars 2

Why are so many people excited for gliding but so many are turned off by underwater?

-Both are 3rd spaces you can move in.
-Gliding is much more restrictive.
-Underwater has combat.

What specifically makes the gliding experience better then underwater? And no “getting to places you cant get to by walking or swimming” because that is simply by design.

Would Underwater experience have been more embraced if maps were created with more depth physically and conceptually?

I don’t spend a lot of time underwater, but I would if there was a good reason to. Perhaps I just answered my own question. So I ask this now, why are they not fixing underwater experience before moving onto above ground experience? Fall damage is more fun?

edit:
ha, fall dmg is more fun? gliding timer is more fun?
if they had added breath timer and dmg for exceeding breath timer then perhaps underwater would have been more exhilarating ! Toss in runes of breath and swimming mastery and we would be gold !

No one likes underwater combat in this game because its horribly, horribly unbalanced. Every single balance pass we’ve had in this game has completely ignored underwater skills. As a result, you have some classes that can basically blow through it without blinking, and other classes who are woefully underpowered.

Its been neglected so much that when ANet redid the trait system, they completely removed all the traits that affected underwater weapons and skills.

I have not yet tried gliding in GW2, but the simple anwser imo is:

Flying is fun.

If you have played Batman games, you know that gliding over the city in itself (with n objectives) for some reason feels really good. It feels fast, you can see the “map” below you, observe things you couldn’t.

On the other hand, underwater is slow, you see less than before, the environment is pretty repetative.

With that said, I like the underwater aspect of the game, and it’s a shame that it’s being neglected.

Kravick.4906:

No one likes underwater combat in this game because its horribly, horribly unbalanced.

Its been neglected so much that when ANet redid the trait system, they completely removed all the traits that affected underwater weapons and skills.

Forceful Greatsword Warrior Trait:
Gain might on a critical hit with a greatsword or spear. Greatsword and spear skills deal more damage and recharge faster.

Spear is an underwater weapon, other underwater traits still exist.

Justine.6351:

Why are so many people excited for gliding but so many are turned off by underwater?

-Both are 3rd spaces you can move in.
-Gliding is much more restrictive.
-Underwater has combat.

What specifically makes the gliding experience better then underwater? And no “getting to places you cant get to by walking or swimming” because that is simply by design.

Would Underwater experience have been more embraced if maps were created with more depth physically and conceptually?

I don’t spend a lot of time underwater, but I would if there was a good reason to. Perhaps I just answered my own question. So I ask this now, why are they not fixing underwater experience before moving onto above ground experience? Fall damage is more fun?

edit:
ha, fall dmg is more fun? gliding timer is more fun?
if they had added breath timer and dmg for exceeding breath timer then perhaps underwater would have been more exhilarating ! Toss in runes of breath and swimming mastery and we would be gold !

I have bolded out my biggest gripe with underwater.
Underwater feels pretty slow.

So in a more detailed explenation.
For me battle underwater is booring as skills are mostly pretty bad, traits and skills are not made for underwater combat so my build becomes crippled once I go below water. I have a hard time finding the enemies that attacks me underwater as they can be everywhere and battle underwater becomes pretty slow.

I do like underwater exploration and have no problems with that, in fact it is realy cool and I like that. If there where battle on Gliders (If that would work) I would probably have hated that too.

My opinion.

Justine.6351:

Why are so many people excited for gliding but so many are turned off by underwater?

-Both are 3rd spaces you can move in.
-Gliding is much more restrictive.
-Underwater has combat.

What specifically makes the gliding experience better then underwater? And no “getting to places you cant get to by walking or swimming” because that is simply by design.

Would Underwater experience have been more embraced if maps were created with more depth physically and conceptually?

I don’t spend a lot of time underwater, but I would if there was a good reason to. Perhaps I just answered my own question. So I ask this now, why are they not fixing underwater experience before moving onto above ground experience? Fall damage is more fun?

edit:
ha, fall dmg is more fun? gliding timer is more fun?
if they had added breath timer and dmg for exceeding breath timer then perhaps underwater would have been more exhilarating ! Toss in runes of breath and swimming mastery and we would be gold !

gliding is different movement mechanic.

its faster

its doesnt give you a different set of skills that may not work well

people might love underwater if it gave a new interesting way of controlling your motion, increased speed, and didnt have a poorly designed combat mechanic

Bubi.7942:

On the other hand, underwater is slow, you see less than before, the environment is pretty repetative.

With that said, I like the underwater aspect of the game, and it’s a shame that it’s being neglected.

How is gliding faster then swimming? Or you just mean feels slower?

As far as the repetitive deal, yeah they need interesting landscape for sure. Its not like humans have been building farms/towns/cities down there lols. Perhaps more concentrated maps will appear, when dealing with underwater dragon, for quagans, krait and those sea angel creatures.

Another bad thing is that there is no back-lore for underwater civilizations. Atleast not anything people currently care about. I suppose they would just be ghost towns.

I still want to see an Underwater borderland map. Atleast there we wouldn’t have to worry about “lore” or “ghosttown” problems.

Ofcoarse there is also the distance/substance you can see. That I can agree with as a problem. Just not enough contrast between the blue-grey and brown-grey colors.

Justine.6351:

Bubi.7942:

On the other hand, underwater is slow, you see less than before, the environment is pretty repetative.

With that said, I like the underwater aspect of the game, and it’s a shame that it’s being neglected.

How is gliding faster then swimming? Or you just mean feels slower?

As far as the repetitive deal, yeah they need interesting landscape for sure. Its not like humans have been building farms/towns/cities down there lols. Perhaps more concentrated maps will appear, when dealing with underwater dragon, for quagans, krait and those sea angel creatures.

Another bad thing is that there is no back-lore for underwater civilizations. Atleast not anything people currently care about. I suppose they would just be ghost towns.

I still want to see an Underwater borderland map. Atleast there we wouldn’t have to worry about “lore” or “ghosttown” problems.

Ofcoarse there is also the distance/substance you can see. That I can agree with as a problem. Just not enough contrast between the blue-grey and brown-grey colors.

people hated underwater combat when they had a huge lake in the middle.

underwater combat generally boils down to spamming projectiles for a longer period of time for many classes/situations

phys.7689:

Justine.6351:

Bubi.7942:

On the other hand, underwater is slow, you see less than before, the environment is pretty repetative.

With that said, I like the underwater aspect of the game, and it’s a shame that it’s being neglected.

How is gliding faster then swimming? Or you just mean feels slower?

As far as the repetitive deal, yeah they need interesting landscape for sure. Its not like humans have been building farms/towns/cities down there lols. Perhaps more concentrated maps will appear, when dealing with underwater dragon, for quagans, krait and those sea angel creatures.

Another bad thing is that there is no back-lore for underwater civilizations. Atleast not anything people currently care about. I suppose they would just be ghost towns.

I still want to see an Underwater borderland map. Atleast there we wouldn’t have to worry about “lore” or “ghosttown” problems.

Ofcoarse there is also the distance/substance you can see. That I can agree with as a problem. Just not enough contrast between the blue-grey and brown-grey colors.

people hated underwater combat when they had a huge lake in the middle.

underwater combat generally boils down to spamming projectiles for a longer period of time for many classes/situations

yes trying to melee fight in 3d is hard to negotiate against projectile users.
options:
-more pull skills on the spear
-inherent +% movespeed with spear
-larger attack area with spear
-more rush skills with spear
-more anti projectile skills on spear (some do exist already)
-better devastating melee attacks

Perhaps I should think up a list on changes to spear skills across the classes that will make running melee underwater more rewarding.

Oh and btw, gliding has NO combat mechanic. Not sure how not liking underwater combat makes gliding more likable.

Justine.6351:

phys.7689:

Justine.6351:

Bubi.7942:

On the other hand, underwater is slow, you see less than before, the environment is pretty repetative.

With that said, I like the underwater aspect of the game, and it’s a shame that it’s being neglected.

How is gliding faster then swimming? Or you just mean feels slower?

As far as the repetitive deal, yeah they need interesting landscape for sure. Its not like humans have been building farms/towns/cities down there lols. Perhaps more concentrated maps will appear, when dealing with underwater dragon, for quagans, krait and those sea angel creatures.

Another bad thing is that there is no back-lore for underwater civilizations. Atleast not anything people currently care about. I suppose they would just be ghost towns.

I still want to see an Underwater borderland map. Atleast there we wouldn’t have to worry about “lore” or “ghosttown” problems.

Ofcoarse there is also the distance/substance you can see. That I can agree with as a problem. Just not enough contrast between the blue-grey and brown-grey colors.

people hated underwater combat when they had a huge lake in the middle.

underwater combat generally boils down to spamming projectiles for a longer period of time for many classes/situations

yes trying to melee fight in 3d is hard to negotiate against projectile users.
options:
-more pull skills on the spear
-inherent +% movespeed with spear
-larger attack area with spear
-more rush skills with spear
-more anti projectile skills on spear (some do exist already)
-better devastating melee attacks

Perhaps I should think up a list on changes to spear skills across the classes that will make running melee underwater more rewarding.

Oh and btw, gliding has NO combat mechanic. Not sure how not liking underwater combat makes gliding more likable.

im saying the reason they like gliding and not underwater, is because gliding doesnt have combat. Gliding is simply a more interesting(because its different, and faster) means of movement.

Justine.6351:

Oh and btw, gliding has NO combat mechanic. Not sure how not liking underwater combat makes gliding more likable.

I don’t get the question… Or well if I understand the question then that question has allready been answered.

Okay, a lot of people don’t like underwater content. But how about boats? Boat crafting, pirate ship battles, racing tracks, islands full of jumping puzzles …
Add to that underwater content that’s not about pvp and everyone should be fine.

Boats could be added to the existing areas because they’re basically flying carpets that are restricted to water surfaces.

WabbaJaga.3861:

Okay, a lot of people don’t like underwater content. But how about boats? Boat crafting, pirate ship battles, racing tracks, islands full of jumping puzzles …
Add to that underwater content that’s not about pvp and everyone should be fine.

Boats could be added to the existing areas because they’re basically flying carpets that are restricted to water surfaces.

Not gonna say not to this but it realy has to be well made to be fun and balanced it might be nice. Maby we will se this when we are about to fight Bubbles.

phys.7689:

Justine.6351:

phys.7689:

Justine.6351:

Bubi.7942:

On the other hand, underwater is slow, you see less than before, the environment is pretty repetative.

With that said, I like the underwater aspect of the game, and it’s a shame that it’s being neglected.

How is gliding faster then swimming? Or you just mean feels slower?

As far as the repetitive deal, yeah they need interesting landscape for sure. Its not like humans have been building farms/towns/cities down there lols. Perhaps more concentrated maps will appear, when dealing with underwater dragon, for quagans, krait and those sea angel creatures.

Another bad thing is that there is no back-lore for underwater civilizations. Atleast not anything people currently care about. I suppose they would just be ghost towns.

I still want to see an Underwater borderland map. Atleast there we wouldn’t have to worry about “lore” or “ghosttown” problems.

Ofcoarse there is also the distance/substance you can see. That I can agree with as a problem. Just not enough contrast between the blue-grey and brown-grey colors.

people hated underwater combat when they had a huge lake in the middle.

underwater combat generally boils down to spamming projectiles for a longer period of time for many classes/situations

yes trying to melee fight in 3d is hard to negotiate against projectile users.
options:
-more pull skills on the spear
-inherent +% movespeed with spear
-larger attack area with spear
-more rush skills with spear
-more anti projectile skills on spear (some do exist already)
-better devastating melee attacks

Perhaps I should think up a list on changes to spear skills across the classes that will make running melee underwater more rewarding.

Oh and btw, gliding has NO combat mechanic. Not sure how not liking underwater combat makes gliding more likable.

im saying the reason they like gliding and not underwater, is because gliding doesnt have combat. Gliding is simply a more interesting(because its different, and faster) means of movement.

So in a way thats to say if anet didn’t bother with underwater combat and left swimming to exploration(poi,vistas,nodes,chests), finding currents(speedy travel) and added breath timer/“fall dmg” it might have not been so unfavored?

I can actually appreciate that. At same time is that to say aerial combat would not be welcome to the game in the future?

WabbaJaga.3861:

Okay, a lot of people don’t like underwater content. But how about boats? Boat crafting, pirate ship battles, racing tracks, islands full of jumping puzzles …
Add to that underwater content that’s not about pvp and everyone should be fine.

Boats could be added to the existing areas because they’re basically flying carpets that are restricted to water surfaces.

The problem or unlikeliness of this is air ships. Flying and gliding seem to be the future in the game. I guess boats are still important in the game. But important to the hero players? Or just the shipping/fishing npcs?

Justine.6351:

phys.7689:

Justine.6351:

phys.7689:

Justine.6351:

Bubi.7942:

On the other hand, underwater is slow, you see less than before, the environment is pretty repetative.

With that said, I like the underwater aspect of the game, and it’s a shame that it’s being neglected.

How is gliding faster then swimming? Or you just mean feels slower?

As far as the repetitive deal, yeah they need interesting landscape for sure. Its not like humans have been building farms/towns/cities down there lols. Perhaps more concentrated maps will appear, when dealing with underwater dragon, for quagans, krait and those sea angel creatures.

Another bad thing is that there is no back-lore for underwater civilizations. Atleast not anything people currently care about. I suppose they would just be ghost towns.

I still want to see an Underwater borderland map. Atleast there we wouldn’t have to worry about “lore” or “ghosttown” problems.

Ofcoarse there is also the distance/substance you can see. That I can agree with as a problem. Just not enough contrast between the blue-grey and brown-grey colors.

people hated underwater combat when they had a huge lake in the middle.

underwater combat generally boils down to spamming projectiles for a longer period of time for many classes/situations

yes trying to melee fight in 3d is hard to negotiate against projectile users.
options:
-more pull skills on the spear
-inherent +% movespeed with spear
-larger attack area with spear
-more rush skills with spear
-more anti projectile skills on spear (some do exist already)
-better devastating melee attacks

Perhaps I should think up a list on changes to spear skills across the classes that will make running melee underwater more rewarding.

Oh and btw, gliding has NO combat mechanic. Not sure how not liking underwater combat makes gliding more likable.

im saying the reason they like gliding and not underwater, is because gliding doesnt have combat. Gliding is simply a more interesting(because its different, and faster) means of movement.

So in a way thats to say if anet didn’t bother with underwater combat and left swimming to exploration(poi,vistas,nodes,chests), finding currents(speedy travel) and added breath timer/“fall dmg” it might have not been so unfavored?

I can actually appreciate that. At same time is that to say aerial combat would not be welcome to the game in the future?

if the combat is designed around the movement design it might be good, the best flying combat games wouldnt have the type combat you see underwater.

and yeah i think people would like swimming better if it focused on interesting movements.

Justine.6351:

The problem or unlikeliness of this is air ships. Flying and gliding seem to be the future in the game. I guess boats are still important in the game. But important to the hero players? Or just the shipping/fishing npcs?

I don’t think it needs to be linked to the story, as long as it stays true to the general lore. Any kind of horizontal expansion would be good as far as I’m concerned (gliding and masteries seem like a good start).
I don’t know about air battles, it seems more fat-fetched and complicated to me. And it wouldn’t make sense that those things are restricted to new areas (because air is … everywhere, right?).

Anyway, I’m looking forward to gliding.

WabbaJaga.3861:

Justine.6351:

The problem or unlikeliness of this is air ships. Flying and gliding seem to be the future in the game. I guess boats are still important in the game. But important to the hero players? Or just the shipping/fishing npcs?

I don’t think it needs to be linked to the story, as long as it stays true to the general lore. Any kind of horizontal expansion would be good as far as I’m concerned (gliding and masteries seem like a good start).
I don’t know about air battles, it seems more fat-fetched and complicated to me. And it wouldn’t make sense that those things are restricted to new areas (because air is … everywhere, right?).

Anyway, I’m looking forward to gliding.

I liked aion for its gliding/flying. It’s a shame they limited flying(aion) and gliding(gw2) to certain zones. As you said air is everywhere. Probably another nail in the coffin for underwater, it is not everywhere.

Silly thought, is gliding a reason anet split from ncsoft? Seriously stepping on aion toes ;-(

underwater combat is not very good. so many of the skills become unusable underwater and often you would not want the same trait setup as you have on land but i cant imagine too many being willing to go through and change that every time you go in the water considering most of the game is on land

Kravick.4906:

No one likes underwater combat in this game .

I love underwater combat in this game.
Maybe i need meet this “no one” – he/she always seems very negative about stuff and prob just needs a hug…

Underwater combat is a mode of combat while gliding is like a minigame, they are very different. My gripes with underwater combat are numerous.

-It is completely imbalanced between professions because no effort has been put into balance.
-There are a very limited amount of choices for skills since many utilities and elites are unusable and because there are only 3 weapons.
-Some professions are even shoehorned to a single elite skill and weapon setup.
-There are no separate underwater trait builds, which means that your trait choices may be useless in underwater combat.
-You need separate headgear that has not been supported by the devs. Ascended aquabreathers are coming but only for fractal players atm. I really wonder if we will be able to at least obtain exotic aquabreathers that are not tied to holidays in HoT.
-Mob density seems to be rather high in some areas, which is pretty bad because it’s much easier to get aggroed underwater.

All of these problems are fixable, which is why I’m really hoping that the expansion after HoT will involve the deep-sea dragon. That would give a perfect opportunity for a revamp of underwater combat. The sooner it is fixed, the better for the overall health of the game.

Kravick.4906:

Its been neglected so much that when ANet redid the trait system, they completely removed all the traits that affected underwater weapons and skills.

That’s actually not true.

Ganathar.4956:

-It is completely imbalanced between professions because no effort has been put into balance.

How does class-balancing effect normal, open-world PvE? I’m not talking about hardcore underwater endgame content or PvP, so why not have some explorably underwater areas with mini bosses like the Krait witch or bigger events like Tequatl? If one class is less capable you could switch to another char, that shouldn’t be a problem in this game.
And if it was something like a WvW map you could always choose to stay on the other maps and leave it to people who enjoy underwater combat.

A couple of more underwater traits, especially ultimates and easier switching between builds, would be nice, that’s true – but apart from that I see no reason why 3 weapons shouldn’t be enough. It’s not like you would have to suddenly spend more time under water than above.

Try to see it as a challenge – surviving content without a proper build could be fun as well.

Kravick.4906:

No one likes underwater combat in this game because its horribly, horribly unbalanced. Every single balance pass we’ve had in this game has completely ignored underwater skills. As a result, you have some classes that can basically blow through it without blinking, and other classes who are woefully underpowered.

Its been neglected so much that when ANet redid the trait system, they completely removed all the traits that affected underwater weapons and skills.

Not so, I love underwater and I know other players that do too. I do agree some classes have better underwater skills then others. That needs to be addressed, but I think it would be great to have more underwater things to do, dungeons, events etc.

Water combat is slow, unbalanced, hard to navigate, hard to see, and a nightmare to employ active combat. Enemies that appear to be at a different height and position relative to you magically one-shot you with no warning of defense. Of course this doesn’t matter because you can’t die underwater. But everything also takes 10x longer to kill, meaning long boring fights with no mechanics.

Gliding on the other hand lets you see wide open vistas, move swiftly from one place to another, avoid enemies, is easy to tell relative position by using shadows and height, and contains no combat.

People don’t like underwater because krait and many risen are downright cheap with too many CC’s. Otherwise it’s great, at least if you’re either an elementalist (whirlpool is a fun skill! :D ) or a spear thief. If you have 3 or 4 skelk on you for example you can manage your skills to get in a good clean win like using that swinging skill at the proper moment or spamming invulnerability until you get six stacks (two hits). My underwater skills as thief are all sigils due to their passive stat bonuses and strategic blind of the shadow signet.

Maybe an elite skill for some classes to transform into a shark would drastically improve underwater combat’s popularity? I think a shark themed land weapon like a mace that upon every crit has a ghostly shark bite animation would be cool ^_^

Justine.6351:

Why are so many people excited for gliding but so many are turned off by underwater?

-Both are 3rd spaces you can move in.
-Gliding is much more restrictive.
-Underwater has combat.

What specifically makes the gliding experience better then underwater? And no “getting to places you cant get to by walking or swimming” because that is simply by design.

emphasis mine. underwater combat is bad. sometimes, less is more.

Underwater combat is probably the least fun part of this game for me, but, if I’m being completely honest here, it’s one of the best underwater implementations in a game recently.

First off, underwater combat is a joke

spam skills 1-5, swap weapon, repeat.

You don’t even need to do anything when fighting mossman underwater , even in lvl 50 frac.

Sit there and spam 1-5 while watching tv. its a joke.

Underwater exploration? sure who wouldn’t mind some more things like that

But that requires anet dedicating resources into that. In which case, i’d rather not see any resources wasted on minimal content that most won’t bother doing after exploring it once….

All in all..underwater is a waste of resources from anet IMO. there are clearly better things anet should spend time developing….. underwater stuff is not one of them.

Anyone use mouse movement here? If you keyboard turn then I can see why underwater combat would be a problem. Mouse turning is simply superior anyway. If you manage your space and positioning correctly you’ll have a better time. Also avoiding underwater in Orr and wherever you see lots of krait.

Agemnon.4608:

Anyone use mouse movement here? If you keyboard turn then I can see why underwater combat would be a problem. Mouse turning is simply superior anyway. If you manage your space and positioning correctly you’ll have a better time. Also avoiding underwater in Orr and wherever you see lots of krait.

^^ This

I only use mouse movement underwater, but it’s almost required. I still like keyboard movement in combat on land, since it frees up my cursor.

Justine.6351:

Why are so many people excited for gliding but so many are turned off by underwater?

-Both are 3rd spaces you can move in.
-Gliding is much more restrictive.
-Underwater has combat.

What specifically makes the gliding experience better then underwater? And no “getting to places you cant get to by walking or swimming” because that is simply by design.

Would Underwater experience have been more embraced if maps were created with more depth physically and conceptually?

I don’t spend a lot of time underwater, but I would if there was a good reason to. Perhaps I just answered my own question. So I ask this now, why are they not fixing underwater experience before moving onto above ground experience? Fall damage is more fun?

edit:
ha, fall dmg is more fun? gliding timer is more fun?
if they had added breath timer and dmg for exceeding breath timer then perhaps underwater would have been more exhilarating ! Toss in runes of breath and swimming mastery and we would be gold !

Easy. Because you don’t have to run around trying to find the elusive hit box to land attacks when gliding.

The frustrating part of underwater combat has nothing to do with underwater movement and everything to do with the actual combat.

2 completely different feelings.

Glinding doesn’t include fighting, it doesn’t give u the impressiong everything is in slow motion…it doesn’t make you look in all directions for stuff that may interrupt you (hitboxes). The overall image is not murky and so on. The feeling is completely different.

Gliding is just like “sit back..relax..and admire”. Water is more frustration then anything else.

Gliding works mechanically very different than moving underwater does.

For instance to move forward while gliding you don’t have to do anything, if you have your glider out you are moving forward which only really leave turning to be a concern and since there is no air combat I can relax and really look at my surroundings. I also really like how I can manipulate how far I can go with the glider by using free falls interspersed.

Everything about underwater just annoys me and I find fighting underwater to be frustrating most of the time. Plus every time I go underwater I am reminded the breather does nothing and that further annoys me.

Down the line it would be cool if they added a mastery for underwater movement if we ever get to fight Steve. Maybe give us water jets that would make movement faster. Underwater combat does need and overhaul as it feels very clunky. Also, it would be nice if we had all utility skills at our disposal while underwater. They could even make land weapons usable on underwater.

Issue here is we have only a handful of underwater zones and they are fairly bland and boring. If we had underwater areas that have fantastic events, world bosses, beautiful environment work and rewards making it worth going to, then underwater would be more popular.

Because we have nothing in game to make it popular Arena Net as a consequence ignores underwater content and skills because metrics show it is unpopular.

Perhaps we may have to wait a few years till we are fighting the underwater dragon to get decent water content. But I have a feeling most of that content will be on land because `metrics show underwater is not popular´.

i would enjoy underwater much more if some crazy asuras and chars would create some underwater thrusters… a little bit more speed would be really nice.

And yeah, fighting doesn’t work that well. There are just to many problems to list them all here^^

But i like the concept of underwater fights. Just not the current state

I use a spear for underwater. Its…iffy. Some skills have no issue aligning with the enemy, but I need to get in close for most of the skills, which is a pain because I am usually getting railed on by several enemies, and I might be stabbing with the spear but the enemy is a bit higher and not getting hit ect.

Its too…fickle…with close range, and having to deal with positioning.

I dunno underwater combat lacks that fluidity and flow that normal combat has.

Plus your comparing this to something like flying, which always feels relaxing and fun in a mmorpg…which is silly.

People were kind of excited before launch about swimming and fighting. The unnecessary skill limitations (such as the ele underwater elites being severely limited for no good reason) and the difficulty in maneuvering and targeting, cooled people off.

Flying is another way to travel, and a cool way at that. You’re not doing any fighting so there aren’t the skill or targeting problems.

Justine.6351:

Why are so many people excited for gliding but so many are turned off by underwater?

-Both are 3rd spaces you can move in.
-Gliding is much more restrictive.
-Underwater has combat.

What specifically makes the gliding experience better then underwater? And no “getting to places you cant get to by walking or swimming” because that is simply by design.

Would Underwater experience have been more embraced if maps were created with more depth physically and conceptually?

I don’t spend a lot of time underwater, but I would if there was a good reason to. Perhaps I just answered my own question. So I ask this now, why are they not fixing underwater experience before moving onto above ground experience? Fall damage is more fun?

edit:
ha, fall dmg is more fun? gliding timer is more fun?
if they had added breath timer and dmg for exceeding breath timer then perhaps underwater would have been more exhilarating ! Toss in runes of breath and swimming mastery and we would be gold !

Being underwater means you can’t explore like you would with a glider or jumping, you move at a consistant pace and your fights are more work than above land, or less if it’s down to mostly auto-attacking.

It feels far less rewarding playing underwater and slows down the game. This doesn’t have to be true in future xpacs that may be underwater focused, but right now gliding is superior in adding to what we already enjoy where as water takes away most of it.

The very fact that gliding doesn’t have combat already makes it superior to swimming in my book. This is why i loved swimming in Lion’s Arch: you had the joy of underwater exploration without any annoying mobs getting in your way.

It feels like every single thing in this game, or every new feature that gets added, is centered/balanced around combat. So it’s fun if we get some new features every once in a while that don’t have anything to do with fighting stuff.

This game really needs more non-combat activities, IMO. But i guess i’ll keep that for another thread.

Kravick.4906:

No one likes underwater combat in this game because its horribly, horribly unbalanced. Every single balance pass we’ve had in this game has completely ignored underwater skills. As a result, you have some classes that can basically blow through it without blinking, and other classes who are woefully underpowered.

Its been neglected so much that when ANet redid the trait system, they completely removed all the traits that affected underwater weapons and skills.

Sounds like ground combat, at least in the water Ranger was on top.

Just that because there is no fighting while gliding it is better then what ever underwater .
Underwater combat is way more restrictive then ground one as you are limited with skills/weapon sets and because of that even traits so yeah it can even break builds.

Z axis adds more trouble then fun (at least in combat) so you could say thats main problem…

Plenty of people like underwater exploration and movement.

Nobody likes underwater combat.

Gliding is the exploration and movement without the combat. Ergo, good. Also you can save yourself from Death Falls and maneuver in ways the game never let you do before in the primary game sphere, so hey. Also good.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Plenty of people like underwater exploration and movement.

Nobody likes underwater combat.

Gliding is the exploration and movement without the combat. Ergo, good. Also you can save yourself from Death Falls and maneuver in ways the game never let you do before in the primary game sphere, so hey. Also good.

Totally agree. I actually really love swimming and the underwater experience in GW2. The underwater environments are beautifully created and I love checking them out. Combat, however, really does feel strange in most cases, as it’s been stated. Despite the lack of attention to the combat side of things, I hope the dev team continues to work on new underwater environments into the future of the game, though. They’re just beautiful!

And now for something completely different…

Flying dreams is a common forms of lucid dreaming. It suggests power and control. The dreamer is aware he/she is dreaming and must be in control of the dream to successfully fly. Who would not want to include that is a game? I thought it was totally cool. Just gliding above the landscape, no problems, just fun!

There are some folks who do the “under water birthing” thing, and the first thing a baby wants to do is ‘get out of the water’ and breath. Going back into the water is not a power thing. So it is not surprising it is low on the ‘List of Fun Activities.’

I always thought flying dreams were a ‘guy thing’ but I could be wrong. I still think that our general game design is a ‘guy thing’ despite the fact that there are plenty of ‘girl gamers’ who play. So if we’re using a ‘guy based’ feature progression, then flying is the thing. Water.. not so much.

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The problem is the game was never well suited to underwater. It doesn’t offer compelling gameplay, exploration, nor combat. It’s clunky at best. Unfortunately they really can’t remove it entirely because of how much of so many maps they invested in for it. Perhaps, one day, if we ever get to the underwater dragon, they will actively and completely overhaul the system, preferably removing the differentiation between underwater and land based equipment.

Until that it will be a sad thing that we still have to do, but that just isn’t well done.

Also gliding is fun, probably because it isn’t combat based.

So people would be opposed to flying creatures attacking them and trying to drive them out of the sky to a falling death? Honestly I would expect this in HoT. Maybe I am wrong.

As for smashing 1-5 and taking forever to kill stuff underwater type comments. Maybe get a decent weapon for underwater? Maybe learn what underwater skills even do? Mesmer, warrior, ranger are the 3 classes I’ve had any practice underwater with and they kill pretty fast but I generally run glass stats so I don’t know how some of the softer hitting classes like guardian would feel like in say knights gear or worse, clerics.

Justine.6351:

So people would be opposed to flying creatures attacking them and trying to drive them out of the sky to a falling death? Honestly I would expect this in HoT. Maybe I am wrong.

I really really hope they do not do this.

Justine.6351:

So people would be opposed to flying creatures attacking them and trying to drive them out of the sky to a falling death? Honestly I would expect this in HoT. Maybe I am wrong.

I would hope for both. Some areas where creatures attack you, causing you to fall into dangerous waters in the Maguuma Jungles. A fair mix of both aerial danger with underwater combat. I’d give bonus points if we had to out-maneuver Wyverns while flying in those territories.