Guild Wars 2

We will have acess with some new legendarys, with more coming on next releases.
We will have acess to some Stronghold champions, with more coming on next releases.
We will have acess to 1 stronghold map, with more coming into next releases.

What more we are receiving incomplete? There is even a rumor that we are not even taking mordremoth down, only coming in future releases.

So anytime a game releases additional related content outside of an expansion, or the game itself, then that makes it not complete?

No MMORPG is ever released complete. No expansion is ever released complete. There are always things that come down the pike after the expansion. The same was true with Guild Wars 2.

You can always wait to purchase Heart of Thorns until after it is ‘complete’. =)

Good luck.

I guess Living World is still a thing. That’s fine by me: we know since January exactly what we are getting on the pop/wvw side, and it looks promising enough. If there’s more later, well, that’s even better.

Sorry, I am indeedly bad on express myself, and I will learn to get better.

I just think that when you introduce a new thing that is a set, (Like legendarys for example), the set should come complete.

I am jut worried that they are rushing to provide the expansion, and might be letting it be released with less content than the 50 U$ worth. And then, after it launchs we will setill get “Patches” that are still part of the expansion, but were not present on the expansion launch. What will consume more time that could be used for the new progression of the game.

But okay, If community is fine with this, let it be , I already bought the xpac anyway.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Sorry, I am indeedly bad on express myself, and I will learn to get better.

I just think that when you introduce a new thing that is a set, (Like legendarys for example), the set should come complete.

But what makes a “set” is completely arbitrary. I could say that a full set of legendaries is 1 of every single weapon. However, someone else can just as well argue that a full set of legendaries contains 2 greatswords and 1 greatsword that is made from those two, as per the current “set” of legendaries. Neither of these is any less of a “complete set of legendaries”.

I am jut worried that they are rushing to provide the expansion, and might be letting it be released with less content than the 50 U$ worth. And then, after it launchs we will setill get “Patches” that are still part of the expansion, but were not present on the expansion launch. What will consume more time that could be used for the new progression of the game.

The only person who can decide whether the expansion has 50$ worth of content is you. And that goes for every single player.

I can understand the choice in releasing a single map. It’s easier to gather feedback and create better maps that release a ton of maps that aren’t recieved well.

As for the Legendary weapons, I can see this only being an issue if it takes so long after release that everyone has already gotten the new precursors. As it is, it’s prolly the wisest choice to pull resources off of something that can’t be accessed immediately to content that can be.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Sorry, I am indeedly bad on express myself, and I will learn to get better.

I just think that when you introduce a new thing that is a set, (Like legendarys for example), the set should come complete.

I am jut worried that they are rushing to provide the expansion, and might be letting it be released with less content than the 50 U$ worth. And then, after it launchs we will setill get “Patches” that are still part of the expansion, but were not present on the expansion launch. What will consume more time that could be used for the new progression of the game.

But okay, If community is fine with this, let it be , I already bought the xpac anyway.

Well, you can think of it this way: Your $50 dollars pays for all those forthcoming patches, just as whatever you paid for the core game covered every patch since launch.

When was (or is it now) GW2 complete?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Well, you can think of it this way: Your $50 dollars pays for all those forthcoming patches, just as whatever you paid for the core game covered every patch since launch.

When was (or is it now) GW2 complete?

Hey, core game came pretty complete ^.^ . The full story arc (I Am not in mid of the ppl that think zhaitan kill was too short, I liked the story progression). We had the 3 pvp maps (Or was it 4?), and we had both alpine BL and alpine EBG . We had the full set of legendarys (1 for each type of weapon ), a full set of dungeons etc.. etc..

I just like to think in HoT like the conclusion of what we had in LS so far. Like LS was a prelude to it. Then, after HoT, we could start another LS as a prelude to bubbles, or something like that. But if HoT comes “Incomplete”, with patchs to fill HoT related content, then we will have another delay until a new arc, or new progression.

But Okay, I am not a heart full of anger pointing and shaming, just expressing how I feel about it :|

Well, the Devs state that the ‘story of Tyria’ continues in HoT. I’m pretty sure they haven’t said whether that chapter of the ‘story’ will be finalized or not.

As to Legendaries, well, I guess they won’t all be available on release day. Sucks if there is something you desire that isn’t available on that day. Players can always wait to purchase until it is.

As for maps? Well, new maps were added to Pact Tyria, so I guess the core game wasn’t complete at launch. Maybe it’s not complete now, as we have no idea if any other maps will be added to Pact Tyria anytime in the future. /shrug

Dungeons? Can’t really tell if they are complete. If no other dungeons are ever added to Pact Tyria, then yes. If anyone counts Fractals as a dungeon, then dungeons weren’t complete at launch.

It just seems that using those parameters, no game can ever add any content after release (at no cost, in GW2’s case, even), or it will not be considered ‘complete’.

I would just recommend anyone less than satisfied with the content of a proposed paid release, to consider waiting to purchase until said content meets their personal requirements or expectations.

Good luck.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Will HoT Be released incomplete?

Yes.

ArenaNet needs the money now, not when HoT will be complete. They will release the game with bugs and lacking content, with a vague promise to add more “some day”.

Ayrilana.1396:

So anytime a game releases additional related content outside of an expansion, or the game itself, then that makes it not complete?

Not really. But whenever people accept subpar releases, it only makes it clear for developers that they can have very low standards and some players will still follow them.

MauricioCezar.2673:

But okay, If community is fine with this, let it be , I already bought the xpac anyway.

That was your mistake. If you are worried that the release will be incomplete, that it’s a hushed product, that it will have less content than it should have for its price… By buying it already, you are only telling ArenaNet and other developers that you agree with and accept all the things you are worrying about.

MauricioCezar.2673:

We will have acess with some new legendarys, with more coming on next releases.

Given the way they’ve been treating weapon sets as of late, we’ll have 16 legendaries – one for every terrestial weapon. Maybe two more for one weapon type like our Sunrise, Twilight, Eternity legendary.

Seems pretty clear to me with the statement that there will be minimal/no underwater content that there will be minimal/no underwater weapons added with HoT. That would include legendaries.

Shame that they’re sidelining a feature that they were so proud of pre-release. Instead of, y’know, improving it.

MauricioCezar.2673:

We will have acess to some Stronghold champions, with more coming on next releases.
We will have acess to 1 stronghold map, with more coming into next releases.

Despite being packaged with HoT’s release, Stronghold doesn’t seem to be part of HoT itself. Based on the dialogue, Stronghold will be available to everyone, but the Nika champion will be available only to those with HoT. This is a merchandizing tactic to get people who don’t PvE to buy HoT (alongside Revenant and elite specializations).

MauricioCezar.2673:

What more we are receiving incomplete? There is even a rumor that we are not even taking mordremoth down, only coming in future releases.

Rumors are rumors and you do no good taking them as fact.

Nothing you said is leading HoT to be incomplete. Just that we’ll be getting more improvements later on.

It’s like saying GW2 was released incomplete because we didn’t kill all six Elder Dragons.

Chances are good that Mordremoth’s arc will end with HoT, and that Season 3 is our intermission that will lead us into our next dragon. MMOs are always expanding in both feature and story. Anet saying that there are ‘more to come’ is merely stating on this fact.

It’s not to say HoT is incomplete – it’s to say that HoT isn’t the end of GW2.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Well, you can think of it this way: Your $50 dollars pays for all those forthcoming patches, just as whatever you paid for the core game covered every patch since launch.

When was (or is it now) GW2 complete?

This, pretty much. Look at it this way:

GW2 has had regular updates for years now. It has included things like new areas (southsun, DT, SW), new game modes (fractals, SAB), tons of new skins, various QoL improvements (original wallet for example). There’s also stuff that was expected ever since launch (guild halls for example), and things that many players had waited for a long time (new class). If you take the content apart, there isn’t much that’s different what’s been going on already. Rolling HoT in as part of the base game just kind of emphasizes the point.

Some of the new content was actually already released – like specializations, and skill balance changes. Or WvW masteries, which seem like the early version of wider masteries. The rest of the features will come out when they are ready. What would be the point of holding them back longer than necessary – denying the features that are already ready for live, just so you could roll a bigger bundle at once later on.

The day ‘when HoT is ready’ is arbitrary at best – HoT itself is basically just a title change for GW2, along with announcement of a lot of stuff they’ve been working on, but mostly haven’t released yet. The only difference is that they dropped a milestone, announced that full range of new features is available only for games purchased ‘after this date’, and gave old players a chance to re-purchase the game to get that full access. In a way the whole HoT and prepurchase thing is mostly just smoke and mirrors.

Depending on how you look at it, most – or all – MMO ‘expansions’ are like that. They’re just major content updates that keep the game fresh and up to date, and were rolled together into bundle to monetarize it and call it ‘expansion’. The only difference is how you define the pricing model – and how much of the content you bundle together, and how often.

In this case releasing HoT ‘incomplete’ is a good thing, because it just means you get access to part of the content sooner – rather than getting it all at once, but at later time.

Kitsune.1902:

In this case releasing HoT ‘incomplete’ is a good thing, because it just means you get access to part of the content sooner – rather than getting it all at once, but at later time.

Yeah…No.

When the core GW2 was released, did ArenaNet said there were more things they had intended to add at release that they would add to the game soon after? Yep.

Did they actually add those things? Nope. See the firing range minigame at Divinity’s Reach.

Let’s look back at what ArenaNet had said they would add to the game in 2013? You can see they said,

• “On top of this, you’ll also see new legendary weapons and new types of legendary gear in 2013”

• “we’re building a new comprehensive “level zero” optional tutorial that teaches the core basics of the game. We’re also adding new story steps at levels 5 and 10 to help better teach core mechanics as players grow”

• That they would increase ALL crafting professions to 500, including jewelry and cooking.

• And so on, and so on.

Did ArenaNet add those things? Nope.

What we get when HoT is released is everything we know we will get for sure. Everything else ArenaNet claims they will eventually add one day to the game… Is just a promise. And it wouldn’t be the first or the last time ArenaNet makes a promise they are not going to keep.

The less content we get with the HoT release, the more incomplete it is, the less we will have in the long run.

Test.8734:

Kitsune.1902:

In this case releasing HoT ‘incomplete’ is a good thing, because it just means you get access to part of the content sooner – rather than getting it all at once, but at later time.

Yeah…No.

When the core GW2 was released, did ArenaNet said there were more things they had intended to add at release that they would add to the game soon after? Yep.

Did they actually add those things? Nope. See the firing range minigame at Divinity’s Reach.

Let’s look back at what ArenaNet had said they would add to the game in 2013? You can see they said,

• “On top of this, you’ll also see new legendary weapons and new types of legendary gear in 2013”

• “we’re building a new comprehensive “level zero” optional tutorial that teaches the core basics of the game. We’re also adding new story steps at levels 5 and 10 to help better teach core mechanics as players grow”

• That they would increase ALL crafting professions to 500, including jewelry and cooking.

• And so on, and so on.

Did ArenaNet add those things? Nope.

What we get when HoT is released is everything we know we will get for sure. Everything else ArenaNet claims they will eventually add one day to the game… Is just a promise. And it wouldn’t be the first or the last time ArenaNet makes a promise they are not going to keep.

The less content we get with the HoT release, the more incomplete it is, the less we will have in the long run.

For me, some of the best stuff Anet released post patch was stuff we didn’t even have a clue they were working on. So many we didn’t get every single thing they said that was on offer at launch. Maybe we didn’t get the bar room brawl. But we did get fractals and that wasn’t on anyone’s radar.

Test.8734:

Kitsune.1902:

In this case releasing HoT ‘incomplete’ is a good thing, because it just means you get access to part of the content sooner – rather than getting it all at once, but at later time.

Yeah…No.

When the core GW2 was released, did ArenaNet said there were more things they had intended to add at release that they would add to the game soon after? Yep.

Did they actually add those things? Nope. See the firing range minigame at Divinity’s Reach.

Let’s look back at what ArenaNet had said they would add to the game in 2013? You can see they said,

• “On top of this, you’ll also see new legendary weapons and new types of legendary gear in 2013”

• “we’re building a new comprehensive “level zero” optional tutorial that teaches the core basics of the game. We’re also adding new story steps at levels 5 and 10 to help better teach core mechanics as players grow”

• That they would increase ALL crafting professions to 500, including jewelry and cooking.

• And so on, and so on.

Did ArenaNet add those things? Nope.

What we get when HoT is released is everything we know we will get for sure. Everything else ArenaNet claims they will eventually add one day to the game… Is just a promise. And it wouldn’t be the first or the last time ArenaNet makes a promise they are not going to keep.

The less content we get with the HoT release, the more incomplete it is, the less we will have in the long run.

So you cherry picked the few items that they couldn’t bring either entirely or partially while ignoring everything else they they were able to? Also, that article happened well have the release of the core game.

Always reminded this is the first MMO for many people on these forums.

You spend $50 and every thing they release until the next expac is included in that $50 which will no doubt be more content than the original package since most of the base game only introduced temporary content. It wasn’t until season 2 until permanent items were added but all of season 1 the maps, enemies, an story is supposed to come back in some form after HoT. Thus will no doubt be a part of HoT and all the new maps, patches, and changes they make for the next couple of years will indeed be HoT. Lacking any type of subscription there will be less and not as often as other MMO’s is something I’d like to say but these sub games have been severely lacking in the content department lately so I’m gonna assume it will be on par with them.

Ayrilana.1396:

So you cherry picked the few items that they couldn’t bring either entirely or partially while ignoring everything else they they were able to? Also, that article happened well have the release of the core game.

Oh? Are you going to cherry pick the few items that they could bring while ignoring everything else they they were not able to?

Because even if you did, you would still be proving my point – the only part of HoT we know we will get for sure is what the game has at release. Everything else ArenaNet promises may simply not happen, just like some of the things they talked about before never happened as well.

Will HoT be released incomplete? Yes. At least one major feature won’t be included until the next expansion.

Test.8734:

Ayrilana.1396:

So you cherry picked the few items that they couldn’t bring either entirely or partially while ignoring everything else they they were able to? Also, that article happened well have the release of the core game.

Oh? Are you going to cherry pick the few items that they could bring while ignoring everything else they they were not able to?

Because even if you did, you would still be proving my point – the only part of HoT we know we will get for sure is what the game has at release. Everything else ArenaNet promises may simply not happen, just like some of the things they talked about before never happened as well.

Before plagiarizing someone’s argument, know what it is that they are saying first. Thanks.

Let’s refer to the following link that you posted:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

This was posted in July 2013 which was well into the year and just barely a year after the game was released. It disproves your exaggerated claim that they announced the items in the blog when the game was released.

Within the blog they have several sections with things that they had planned to bring to the game.

• Living World and the Two-Week Schedule
• Progression Advancement
  • New Skill and Traits
  • Rewards
  • Champion Rewards
  • Dungeon Complete Bonus Rewards
  • New Crafting Material Rewards
  • Account Magic Find
  • Salvaging Fine and Masterwork Items
• Crafting Taken to 500
• Legendary Gear and Precursors
• World vs. World (replacement of orb, etc)
• Looking for Group (LFG) tool

How many of these made it into the game? The majority did although some are debatable as to how successful they actually were such as for WvW.

What you’re doing is picking the few things that they were unable to deliver on, which they did state in posts on the forums when they realized they would not be able to, and then using that as conformation that Anet will promise things for future HoT releases and not deliver.

Idea change all the time, sometimes things get added later, some of them get improve other do not. Take the way we earn luck now, before it was in the armor, not it a item earn from salvaging. Don’t crafting go to 500 also, seeing how i am still earning points after i past 400? Take the trait system, if i understand it, isn’t this like the 3rd version of it now. Sometimes idea don’t get past the drawing board, it happens, but for the most part, the core game is tons of fun, and I will support HOT, and see where it goes from there.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Well, the Devs state that the ‘story of Tyria’ continues in HoT. I’m pretty sure they haven’t said whether that chapter of the ‘story’ will be finalized or not.

As to Legendaries, well, I guess they won’t all be available on release day. Sucks if there is something you desire that isn’t available on that day. Players can always wait to purchase until it is.

As for maps? Well, new maps were added to Pact Tyria, so I guess the core game wasn’t complete at launch. Maybe it’s not complete now, as we have no idea if any other maps will be added to Pact Tyria anytime in the future. /shrug

Dungeons? Can’t really tell if they are complete. If no other dungeons are ever added to Pact Tyria, then yes. If anyone counts Fractals as a dungeon, then dungeons weren’t complete at launch.

It just seems that using those parameters, no game can ever add any content after release (at no cost, in GW2’s case, even), or it will not be considered ‘complete’.

I would just recommend anyone less than satisfied with the content of a proposed paid release, to consider waiting to purchase until said content meets their personal requirements or expectations.

Good luck.

Holy Kitten…..What a well written post of exactly what I have been thinking! Thank you! Bravo!!

So,

When GW2 was just released, was it incomplete? Is it incomplete now?

Are you sure that before the release of GW2 they managed to implement everything? Are you sure they didn’t hold some back?

When will it be complete? Can it ever be complete?

Ayrilana.1396:

So anytime a game releases additional related content outside of an expansion, or the game itself, then that makes it not complete?

Pretty much killed the thread in the first response.

Zero Day.2594:

So,

When GW2 was just released, was it incomplete? Is it incomplete now?

Are you sure that before the release of GW2 they managed to implement everything? Are you sure they didn’t hold some back?

When will it be complete? Can it ever be complete?

I like your style, has a nice touch of gray area!

Zero Day is “Completely” right – a complete work of art is subjective

“Art is never finished, only abandoned.” – Leonardo da Vinci

another win for the grays! yay!

if the black knights want to appeal this debate….. you may now argue how they abandoned the core gw2 version for the expansion.

If they copy good ol’ WoW, we might not see Mordi ’till the end of the expension cycle.

I hope ANet is better than that – ha, who am I trying to fool…

purely speculative, you need a stronger opening argument. DaVinci has established the abandoning of an older version of software to an expanded / updated / new version of software …run with it. i win whether the white knights or black knights own the debate …i just want a clear win.

Ricky.4706:

purely speculative, you need a stronger opening argument. DaVinci has established the abandoning of an older version of software to an expanded / updated / new version of software …run with it. i win whether the white knights or black knights own the debate …i just want a clear win.

Ricky.4706:

Zero Day.2594:

So,

When GW2 was just released, was it incomplete? Is it incomplete now?

Are you sure that before the release of GW2 they managed to implement everything? Are you sure they didn’t hold some back?

When will it be complete? Can it ever be complete?

I like your style, has a nice touch of gray area!

Zero Day is “Completely” right – a complete work of art is subjective

“Art is never finished, only abandoned.” – Leonardo da Vinci

another win for the grays! yay!

interestingly enough, leonardo was one of the least productive (art wise) masters of the renaissance period.

more on the topic
Is HoT incomplete?
yes.

Many of the people defending this are evaluating it based on black and white, either there is no growth or their is growth.
Its not that simple. There are degrees, and considerations.

I dont think for many people, what they have planned for HoT will feel complete within itself.

of course we currently have limited info, but many of the features are clearly promoted as being works in progress.

regardless of how one feels about it, i suggest all people who buy hot, not expect any much to feel complete on launch.

this is not planned to be a meaty expansion (from what we ve heard)

the main point appears to be
1)marketing and promoting gw2 as a growing product with a lot new to see
2)getting money from people in a B2P strategy
3)internally, development wise, being able to justify, and push the company to develop higher scope projects.

its not really about delivering a complete experience

phys.7689 yeah, he worked smarter, not harder lol

on the black knights behalf, they want to know what they are paying for, so what you are really asking them to do is pay on faith and be satisfied with whatever or leave. The problem with that is that they do consider this their home as much as the white knights consider it their home, so there will be skirmishes.

What i think would calm things down is clarity. There is a big cloud of gray in the air <3

gray is not a space for just anyone, no one really trusts us :*(

to some i’m not evil enough, to others i’m not good enough, but i always win…the irony…. the pug life can be a lonely place……

Ayrilana.1396:

This was posted in July 2013 which was well into the year and just barely a year after the game was released. It disproves your exaggerated claim that they announced the items in the blog when the game was released.

Funny, because I never said the features in the blog were promised at release. In fact, I specifically mentioned the minigames as a feature promised during release, and then talked about the things ArenaNet promised in 2013 by linking the blog. I’m amazed you managed to misunderstand that so completely.

I guess that, before replying to someone’s argument, know what it is that they are saying first. Thanks.

Ayrilana.1396:

• Living World and the Two-Week Schedule
• Progression Advancement
  • New Skill and Traits
  • Rewards
  • Champion Rewards
  • Dungeon Complete Bonus Rewards
  • New Crafting Material Rewards
  • Account Magic Find
  • Salvaging Fine and Masterwork Items
• Crafting Taken to 500
• Legendary Gear and Precursors
• World vs. World (replacement of orb, etc)
• Looking for Group (LFG) tool

• Two-week schedule was often interrupted with breaks. See the current, six month long break as a nice example.

• The blog mentions “We’ll begin regularly adding new skills and traits to the game for each profession”, which never happened. They added one new profession skill, one new trait per line, and thatw as it. No “regularly” added new skills.

• “Crafting Taken to 500”? How about Jeweler and Chef? Oh wait, those are still stuck at 400!

• “Legendary Gear and Precursors”? Not only they didn’t add the new legendary weapons they said they would have during 2013, they also didn’t add the promised " new types of legendary gear", nor did they add the alternate way to make precursors.

Not to mention the things from that blog you “forgot” to mention (a new and optional tutorial area, new story steps at low levels, and so on and so on) that were never added to the game.

Ayrilana.1396:

How many of these made it into the game? The majority did although some are debatable as to how successful they actually were such as for WvW.

So you’re proving my point that many of the things ArenaNet promised were not implemented in game (not in the timeframe ArenaNet claimed they would be added, neither until today). And you’re also adding that many of the things they did add actually failed (see WvW).

So yep, people have a lot of reasons to fear ArenaNet’s current promises about the content they plan to add to HoT. The only content we can be sure of is the content the expansion will have at release… And it looks like it will be a rather incomplete release at that.

Test.8734:

Ayrilana.1396:

This was posted in July 2013 which was well into the year and just barely a year after the game was released. It disproves your exaggerated claim that they announced the items in the blog when the game was released.

Funny, because I never said the features in the blog were promised at release. In fact, I specifically mentioned the minigames as a feature promised during release, and then talked about the things ArenaNet promised in 2013 by linking the blog. I’m amazed you managed to misunderstand that so completely.

I guess that, before replying to someone’s argument, know what it is that they are saying first. Thanks.

Funny because you did. You only brought up the archery mini-game in a single sentence. Over half your post was about the blog post and how Anet had promised them but didn’t deliver. You started your post by stating that when GW2 was released that there were more things that they intended to release but then did not happen. You then phrased a sentence in such a way about the blog post to give the impression that they had promised a lot at release. At the end of your post you use that very post to argue that Anet probably won’t release everything they promised when they release the expansion.

Test.8734:

Ayrilana.1396:

• Living World and the Two-Week Schedule
• Progression Advancement
  • New Skill and Traits
  • Rewards
  • Champion Rewards
  • Dungeon Complete Bonus Rewards
  • New Crafting Material Rewards
  • Account Magic Find
  • Salvaging Fine and Masterwork Items
• Crafting Taken to 500
• Legendary Gear and Precursors
• World vs. World (replacement of orb, etc)
• Looking for Group (LFG) tool

• Two-week schedule was often interrupted with breaks. See the current, six month long break as a nice example.

• The blog mentions “We’ll begin regularly adding new skills and traits to the game for each profession”, which never happened. They added one new profession skill, one new trait per line, and thatw as it. No “regularly” added new skills.

• “Crafting Taken to 500”? How about Jeweler and Chef? Oh wait, those are still stuck at 400!

• “Legendary Gear and Precursors”? Not only they didn’t add the new legendary weapons they said they would have during 2013, they also didn’t add the promised " new types of legendary gear", nor did they add the alternate way to make precursors.

Not to mention the things from that blog you “forgot” to mention (a new and optional tutorial area, new story steps at low levels, and so on and so on) that were never added to the game.

Perhaps you should read my previous post where I stated that you cherry picked the few items from the blog that weren’t released and then argued as if it was evidence that Anet doesn’t keep their promises. You completely ignored everything that they did promise and focused on the few things they had to change plans for.

Test.8734:

Ayrilana.1396:

How many of these made it into the game? The majority did although some are debatable as to how successful they actually were such as for WvW.

So you’re proving my point that many of the things ArenaNet promised were not implemented in game (not in the timeframe ArenaNet claimed they would be added, neither until today). And you’re also adding that many of the things they did add actually failed (see WvW).

So yep, people have a lot of reasons to fear ArenaNet’s current promises about the content they plan to add to HoT. The only content we can be sure of is the content the expansion will have at release… And it looks like it will be a rather incomplete release at that.

No. You saying “many” is an exaggeration. There were only a handful of items that got pushed back to a later time as we saw when they announced the expansion. Whether something was successful or not was not part of your argument and does not go with your argument as all anyway as it has nothing to do with content being released.

All you’ve managed to show is that you can find a list of items, see that a few of them they couldn’t provide, and then make the sweeping assumption that Anet can’t keep promises because of that.

For me personally, I don’t consider statements that include ‘As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.’ as promises.

But, of course, that’s just me.

@Test

The grand answer for you is:

It will be incomplete.

Sorry.

I would feel sorry for the people that pre-ordered if that turns out to be true.

Even Square Enix learned from doing that with their disastrous first release of FFXIV in 2009.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

For me personally, I don’t consider statements that include ‘As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.’ as promises.

But, of course, that’s just me.

Please don’t make the black knights read. That’s plain unfair.

I’m pretty sure that most people that have followed the game from the beginning, remember an entire blogpost dedicated to the iterative nature of the development cycle and how things change all the time, even finished systems that they thought they’d be happy with. It’s entirely possible, in my mind anyway, that Anet published that article to let everyone know that not all plans will pan out. That’s how I read the article anyway.

People wonder why Anet is reluctant to share information before it’s ready. That’s because there’s a loud percentage of this forum who sees every single word out of Anet’s virtual lips as a “promise”.

That’s the reason why Anet is gun shy and doesn’t want to say anything. Because a vocal minority will call them out on anything late, unfinished, scrapped, altered or missing. But that same vocal minority will often ignore the dozens of touches added to the game they didn’t know were coming at all.

that was a good argument. anet fans are a wild bunch for sure!! but it’s called work because it’s not always fun ?

it’s no doubt a pick your poison scenario.

but on anets behalf, it’s important for them as a company to have their fans trust….sometimes this means giving bad news along with the good news. Not pretending bad news is good news…..that’s something apple patented long ago lol

Ayrilana.1396:

you do realize that you guys are arguing his point?
his point is not anet lied to me
his point is anet’s long term plans are subject to change and not set in stone.
showing how they sometimes do long plans and sometimes dont, does not disprove what he is saying.

and i think hes right.

the only thing you should depend from anet is specifically announced, close to release things, and that they will do something.

even though they say that their current design enables them to do xyz easier, the turn around time on a lot of these further developments is sometimes 3 or more years, or not included with what you are entitled to within your current purchase.

like;
more elder dragons
more guild puzzles/challenges/treks/rush
more weapons per class (mentioned as possible free updates during beta)
more traits (we actually have less traits now)
more skills after the healing ones
precursor hunt
new legendaries
guild halls
minigames

not saying they should have delivered these things, but they mentioned them in the same vein as most of the things they are talking about doing later in HoT. More as, hey this is what we could do one day, rather than this is what you can expect to get eventually with this purchase.

so really one should expect:
whatever is in hot
and they will do updates after that with unknown contents/design/purpose.

if you dont like what they have announced with HoT/dont feel it is enough, dont buy it until they have something you do want/enough content, unless you believe that anet is the type of developer that knows what you want without having to talk to you about it.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

you do realize that you guys are arguing his point?
his point is not anet lied to me
his point is anet’s long term plans are subject to change and not set in stone.
showing how they sometimes do long plans and sometimes dont, does not disprove what he is saying.

and i think hes right.

Except that’s not what he was arguing at all.

Vayne.8563:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

For me personally, I don’t consider statements that include ‘As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.’ as promises.

But, of course, that’s just me.

Please don’t make the black knights read. That’s plain unfair.

I’m pretty sure that most people that have followed the game from the beginning, remember an entire blogpost dedicated to the iterative nature of the development cycle and how things change all the time, even finished systems that they thought they’d be happy with. It’s entirely possible, in my mind anyway, that Anet published that article to let everyone know that not all plans will pan out. That’s how I read the article anyway.

People wonder why Anet is reluctant to share information before it’s ready. That’s because there’s a loud percentage of this forum who sees every single word out of Anet’s virtual lips as a “promise”.

That’s the reason why Anet is gun shy and doesn’t want to say anything. Because a vocal minority will call them out on anything late, unfinished, scrapped, altered or missing. But that same vocal minority will often ignore the dozens of touches added to the game they didn’t know were coming at all.

the real deal?
most companies can talk about future plans, and meet or exceed those plans. The fact that anet cannot is not the consumers fault, its just how anet is. They have to figure out how to answer this question that most game developer have to deal with, based on own process.

id say silence is unsatisfactory, and not saying anything is not beneficial, so i dont know how they will solve it, but its an issue.

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

you do realize that you guys are arguing his point?
his point is not anet lied to me
his point is anet’s long term plans are subject to change and not set in stone.
showing how they sometimes do long plans and sometimes dont, does not disprove what he is saying.

and i think hes right.

Except that’s not what he was arguing at all.

actually it is

What we get when HoT is released is everything we know we will get for sure. Everything else ArenaNet claims they will eventually add one day to the game… Is just a promise. And it wouldn’t be the first or the last time ArenaNet makes a promise they are not going to keep.

he is saying;
whats in hot is all we know for sure
other things are long term plans
anet has shown that long term plans change.

his overall point and logic is
only expect what is in hot, because everything that isnt in hot is only a possibility, not a guarantee or reality.

which was in response to people saying that we will get/should expect XYZ after release with our purchase.

phys.7689 – well said, very nice presentation and valid comments based on facts.

“Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” –
George Santayana

another win for the grays!

Vayne.8563:

No MMORPG is ever released complete. No expansion is ever released complete. There are always things that come down the pike after the expansion.

That is not true with regard to story.

That’s, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

The gray needs to LTQ.

IndigoSundown.5419:

That’s, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

The gray needs to LTQ.

sounds like you and brainy quote have something to debate about! lol

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgesant101521.html

The only thing I can say about this is that Guild Wars 2 has fallen pretty much entirely into the standard MMO model at this point.

Which means, no… the expansion will not be complete at launch, and that is entirely intentional. And arguably necessary for player retention.

Ricky.4706:

IndigoSundown.5419:

That’s, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

The gray needs to LTQ.

sounds like you and brainy quote have something to debate about! lol

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgesant101521.html

Probably the most well-known sentence of Santayana’s is also one of the least accurately quoted: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” (The Life of Reason: Reason in Common Sense. Scribner’s, 1905: 284)

Now I see why you’re doing what you’re doing.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ricky.4706:

IndigoSundown.5419:

That’s, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

The gray needs to LTQ.

sounds like you and brainy quote have something to debate about! lol

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgesant101521.html

Probably the most well-known sentence of Santayana’s is also one of the least accurately quoted: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” (The Life of Reason: Reason in Common Sense. Scribner’s, 1905: 284)

Now I see why you’re doing what you’re doing.

i focus on the moral of the story, when you stare at the trees for too long, you might miss the forest!