Guild Wars 2

I think this is a valid concern, because based on how it has been stated it, it seems raids are become something very frequent in future updates. Will this severely hinder other updates and bug fixes elsewhere in the game? I have heard that raids typically take up a lot of time for developers. I am pretty confident that ArenaNet has the resources it needs, but I know that they have sort of left some things sit around for awhile with no updates, like World vs. World (that’s the most well-known example, along with World Bosses and Dungeons). It leaves me worried that this component of the game will overshadow updates on existing content.

Remember dungeons? Then fractals were the next big thing. There was also a living breathing dynamic world. And then it was bi-weekly updates. Oh, and Guild Missions!
All abandoned.

They’ll move on to something else soon enough so even if raids do take a lot of dev effort (which they do), it won’t be for too long, I’d imagine.

Well hopefully they’ll just get them out there and move on to more important things, but you never know. It would be nice if the developers could assure us that this won’t be a huge time sink for them.

They are very unlikely to be as popular as dungeons are – and dungeons were abandoned long ago. For a time however they will consume most of the development resources that could have been used for other things (like world boss encounters, or the already mentioned dungeons).

Well HOT development is hindering updates that are sorely required so……………

Michelangelo.1742:

I have heard that raids typically take up a lot of time for developers. (…) It leaves me worried that this component of the game will overshadow updates on existing content.

Every part of game development takes a lot of ressources and time for developers.

A-Net does not have unlimited ressources, so every work that is put in one game mode is missing in another game mode.

So whatever your least favourite game mode is, it is, in a way, taking ressources away from your most favourite game mode.

If this worries you, that is your personal choice. But GW2 was, from the beginning, a game with different game modes where players have the choice to play only the game modes, they like and where different players like different game modes.

For a while, and then I wager they’ll find the hardcore raiders are a smaller minority than the loudness of their demands makes them seem, and they’re pouring tons of effort out for what’s usually about 5% of the population, and shelve raids like they did dungeons.

I recall Colin saying that new raid sections will open up fairly frequent. Something has to give in development so who knows what that’s going to be…

PvP seems to eat most of their time and that is the most useless game mode. It also eats up huge amounts of money for no reason.

If you really want to free up dev time and money encourage them to get rid of PvP.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

PvP seems to eat most of their time and that is the most useless game mode. It also eats up huge amounts of money for no reason.

If you really want to free up dev time and money encourage them to get rid of PvP.

Nah, throwing money and resources @ eSport that nobody watches is extremely important. It has been 3 years, success bound to fall out of the sky sooner or later for our precious eSport #anetesport4life

Believe it or not, the amount of Developer time is not a fixed number. We already know they hired a Raid Designer last year, what prevents them from having hired additional developers with the intention of having them work strictly on raids (or at least raids as a priority)?

There’s more than one way to allocate more time to an aspect of the game…

Lord Kuru.3685:

Remember dungeons? Then fractals were the next big thing. There was also a living breathing dynamic world. And then it was bi-weekly updates. Oh, and Guild Missions!
All abandoned.

They’ll move on to something else soon enough so even if raids do take a lot of dev effort (which they do), it won’t be for too long, I’d imagine.

Fractals, dynamic world, and frequent content updates are all coming back after the expansion. I expect more guild missions will come eventually, as well. Get your facts straight.

Colin was very clear that raids are the way they will continue to add challenging content to the game, integrating with future expansions and other releases. If you think he wasn’t 100% serious, I don’t know why you’re wasting your time on this game.

So the first step to WoW-ification has occurred. I wonder how long it will take for the next “oh so reasonable” step, and exactly what that step will be.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

PvP seems to eat most of their time and that is the most useless game mode. It also eats up huge amounts of money for no reason.

If you really want to free up dev time and money encourage them to get rid of PvP.

“I don’t like this part of the game, therefore it’s useless. Scrap their mode and spend more resources on what I want”.

Classy.

Andred.1087:

Colin was very clear that raids are the way they will continue to add challenging content to the game, integrating with future expansions and other releases. If you think he wasn’t 100% serious, I don’t know why you’re wasting your time on this game.

When he was saying that there will be no expacs, and that they will introduce all new content through the living world medium, he was equally serious. As he was when he was saying that the game will have vertical gear progression. There was a time when they were quite sure they don’t want to have raids in their game.

And yet here we are.

redcomyn.4651:

So the first step to WoW-ification has occurred. I wonder how long it will take for the next “oh so reasonable” step, and exactly what that step will be.

Implying that raids somehow “wow-ify” the game is a little harsh. WoW’s raids were a problem because of their gear base progression, and the fact that raid gear was just plain leaps and bounds better than any other alternative, making them required content for maximizing a character, and requiring excessive repetition of one raid to move on to another, which bred dissatisfaction and rampant elitism because when people have done something 400 times with little to no reward to show for it they tend to have little patience with any random element (or player) that slows down getting through content they already got bored of but somehow are forced to keep playing to move to something more interesting.

You should look at the “raid content” in GW1 as a better example. Urgoz, Kanaxi, UW, Mallyx, and FoW. These were the top tier of top tier instances, offered unique rewards for completion, but were self contained and entirely optional. You didn’t need items from the instances to be just as statistically powerful as someone who never did them, and you didn’t need to grind one instance just to start trying another.

Believe it or not that content was extremely popular for that reason. It was approachable by anyone with a reasonably geared character/build, and was rewarding enough without requiring crazy grind that you didn’t get sick of running it because you felt like you “had to”

The people in GW1 that didn’t run those instances never got in to these weird raider vs. non-raider fights that you see in WoW because there was plenty of equally fun content outside those instances, and they never had a reason to feel cheated out of content because they “had to raid” to get the best gear.

Andred.1087:

Colin was very clear that raids are the way they will continue to add challenging content to the game, integrating with future expansions and other releases. If you think he wasn’t 100% serious, I don’t know why you’re wasting your time on this game.

“What do I care for my talk from yesterday.”
Most likely coined by Konrad Adenauer, famous peace chancellor after WWII.

I actually don´t know their strategy, but I would not bunk too much on that Colin stuff. If it´s not PvP, that is somehow always spared from the butcher´s block, Anet has no qualms about putting the breaks on something or changing their strategy midair.

I never played GW1, so I don’t know what they were liked. Actually, I didn’t know that they had raids. Well, hopefully you are right and I am just being overly pessimistic. It’s just that my pessimism so often turns out to be prescient.

On the other hand, if we get a panda race, I am going to be all “I told you so!”

Torolan.5816:

…Anet has no qualms about putting the breaks on something or changing their strategy midair.

I know right? Responding to what their player base wants is ludicrous?! LOL!

Why do you think they’re coming out with a boxed expansion after previously saying they wouldn’t? Why do you think the content of it is probably going to be small? Why do you think raids are just now coming into the game?

Players wanted these things to happen, despite Anets plans so they changed those plans to suit those player wants. You don’t succeed in a capitalist market by having a rigid plan and sticking to it hoping for better, you adapt.

Kormeg.2469:

Torolan.5816:

…Anet has no qualms about putting the breaks on something or changing their strategy midair.

I know right? Responding to what their player base wants is ludicrous?! LOL!

Why do you think they’re coming out with a boxed expansion after previously saying they wouldn’t? Why do you think the content of it is probably going to be small? Why do you think raids are just now coming into the game?

Players wanted these things to happen, despite Anets plans so they changed those plans to suit those player wants. You don’t succeed in a capitalist market by having a rigid plan and sticking to it hoping for better, you adapt.

Uhm, no, it´s not ludicrous? Don´t know why you spring out of your box with so much effort, but I actually agreed that raids are the curent state of the art toy.
So what is one of the pillars of your precious capitalist market system? Adaption. Say it with me: Adaption. Repeat: Adaption.
Now think it further with me:
If raids are not the band aid Anet is looking for, it will be abandoned. Why? Because they adapted.

I don´t see my opinion actualyl contradict in any point with yours, do you?

I think raids are a good idea. This game has very little to do for guilds. It’s basicly WvW or guild missions right now, every other bit of content is either limited to 5 players or to swarmed with random players that you cannot get a whole guild in on it.

The big thing about WoW wasnt the raids themselves but the gear threadmill. Aslong as raids aren’t required to get the best gear it’s just an alternative bit of content people can do.

Sure it will take up developer time. But so does pvp and im confident we’ll have more people doing raids than there are playing spvp, which is a very small fraction of the active playerbase.

Torolan.5816:

Kormeg.2469:

Torolan.5816:

…Anet has no qualms about putting the breaks on something or changing their strategy midair.

I know right? Responding to what their player base wants is ludicrous?! LOL!

Why do you think they’re coming out with a boxed expansion after previously saying they wouldn’t? Why do you think the content of it is probably going to be small? Why do you think raids are just now coming into the game?

Players wanted these things to happen, despite Anets plans so they changed those plans to suit those player wants. You don’t succeed in a capitalist market by having a rigid plan and sticking to it hoping for better, you adapt.

Uhm, no, it´s not ludicrous? Don´t know why you spring out of your box with so much effort, but I actually agreed that raids are the curent state of the art toy.
So what is one of the pillars of your precious capitalist market system? Adaption. Say it with me: Adaption. Repeat: Adaption.
Now think it further with me:
If raids are not the band aid Anet is looking for, it will be abandoned. Why? Because they adapted.

I don´t see my opinion actualyl contradict in any point with yours, do you?

The entire first line of my point was sarcasm. I’m pretty sure you din’t get that.

Also, considering that you think we are saying the same thing now, I realize I have no idea what you were trying to say in your post I quoted. Regardless, my point is this: players were not happy with how the living story was going, so Anet adapted by working on a boxed exapansion. Players were not happy with the lack of difficult coordinated endgame content available, so Anet adapted by introducing raids.

The point of this thread in general, as I see it, is to complain about how things apart from what the OP wants are being given attention. My post is to try and explain that reason for alterations in vision have to do with the need to adapt to player wants.

People still gonna be selfish tho.

I think it will. Unless they have some unannounced trick up their sleeves for raids, its not going to satisfy what raiders want. They’ll be back to the drawing board trying to make raids work I think, continually.

Having no trinity in raids is like pvp without classes…yeah it works but offers a much less complex event. Hardcore raiders want a complex raid mechanic that isn’t easy to beat, basically everyone needs to play their role near-flawless…without trinity you have basically one role, DPS, and ive played raids in games with no trinity…its just focus fire the right order of enemies then dodge ground effects, everyone needs baseline dps for it to work. its ok but nothing like actual raiding.

I’m wondering if they are just going to do the crazy telegraphed ground effect route with raids, since you cant have tank/agro “kitten checks” in this game, so really the only thing to up the difficulty is to make the raid bosses turn the screen into one of those Japanese top scrolling shooter arcade games where you have a screen full of stuff you need to dodge.

I really don’t see how you can appease the hardcore raiders in a game with no trinity, which is why I hope theres a trick or two up their sleeves.

Problem with hardcore raiding though, you’ve now spent all this time developing content for like 1% of the population…who usually don’t like it anyway for one reason or another.

They could have spent this time making a ton of pvp instance maps and game modes, some of the more obvious modes seem missing in this game, fixed peoples issue with WvW, then added some mega world boss dynamic events that would more or less take a whole coordinated guild running around different spots in the game world at the same time to even trigger it. Hell you could have made a few where opposing guilds could attack you while you tried…sort of like a guild vs guild challenge to trigger and kill a world boss ect.

Raids cater to a small group of people, even smaller group when those who say they love it actually raid and end up disliking it for being so time consuming and difficult. Lot of people want raids until they get them, and realize how (at least good raids in games made for raiding) unfun they can be if they are not pro and have a perfectly built raid character.

Yup, i asked same question yesterday, bu as your thread will be, mine was merged with generic “raids confirmed” thread.

Result of raids – 2 refunds for HoT. Raids eat up ton of resources and soon youll see special snowflakes demanding better and exlusive rewards, because as is known, raids are not worth doing without uber rewards. Just look at fractals and ascended.

So, to try justify even those <5% to play, ANet will cater to them.

This really was the last drop, if i want raids ill play WoW. Just as raiders do.

Ascended was yellow card, raids are red.

Probably one of my last posts due to refund account closure.

Bye.

MikaHR.1978:

Yup, i asked same question yesterday, bu as your thread will be, mine was merged with generic “raids confirmed” thread.

Result of raids – 2 refunds for HoT. Raids eat up ton of resources and soon youll see special snowflakes demanding better and exlusive rewards, because as is known, raids are not worth doing without uber rewards. Just look at fractals and ascended.

So, to try justify even those <5% to play, ANet will cater to them.

This really was the last drop, if i want raids ill play WoW. Just as raiders do.

Ascended was yellow card, raids are red.

Probably one of my last posts due to refund account closure.

Bye.

About time.
You said you were quitting for the past few days. Why you still posting? can’t get away from this can you?
Please , just go.

SkiTz.4590:

MikaHR.1978:

Yup, i asked same question yesterday, bu as your thread will be, mine was merged with generic “raids confirmed” thread.

Result of raids – 2 refunds for HoT. Raids eat up ton of resources and soon youll see special snowflakes demanding better and exlusive rewards, because as is known, raids are not worth doing without uber rewards. Just look at fractals and ascended.

So, to try justify even those <5% to play, ANet will cater to them.

This really was the last drop, if i want raids ill play WoW. Just as raiders do.

Ascended was yellow card, raids are red.

Probably one of my last posts due to refund account closure.

Bye.

About time.
You said you were quitting for the past few days. Why you still posting? can’t get away from this can you?
Please , just go.

Past few days? I made first post in less than 24 hours.

And yes,i was right before and im right now, youll just have to deal with it. In whatever way you fancy.

MikaHR.1978:

SkiTz.4590:

MikaHR.1978:

Yup, i asked same question yesterday, bu as your thread will be, mine was merged with generic “raids confirmed” thread.

Result of raids – 2 refunds for HoT. Raids eat up ton of resources and soon youll see special snowflakes demanding better and exlusive rewards, because as is known, raids are not worth doing without uber rewards. Just look at fractals and ascended.

So, to try justify even those <5% to play, ANet will cater to them.

This really was the last drop, if i want raids ill play WoW. Just as raiders do.

Ascended was yellow card, raids are red.

Probably one of my last posts due to refund account closure.

Bye.

About time.
You said you were quitting for the past few days. Why you still posting? can’t get away from this can you?
Please , just go.

Past few days? I made first post in less than 24 hours.

And yes,i was right before and im right now, youll just have to deal with it. In whatever way you fancy.

Of course Mika is right in his own little world =). I don’t have to deal with it because I don’t believe in your opinion.

Bye.

Kormeg.2469:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

PvP seems to eat most of their time and that is the most useless game mode. It also eats up huge amounts of money for no reason.

If you really want to free up dev time and money encourage them to get rid of PvP.

“I don’t like this part of the game, therefore it’s useless. Scrap their mode and spend more resources on what I want”.

Classy.

/hyperbole

guess I need to tag these things.

Though objectively PvP uses significantly more money with significantly less returns.

Their “world-wide” tournaments gave away over $100,000 and drew less than 20,000 viewers I believe.

Most of their current revenue stream is from selling HoT, which contains no PvP content and is entirely funded by PvE players.

It just makes sense that they should focus on the parts of the game that are drawing players in. When was the last time you heard someone praise GW2 for its “awesome and varied PvP with great balance”?

Probably never. GW2 is praised for its beautiful world, fast PvE content, awesome story, and never increasing level cap.

I guess they’ll just put a specific team onto it, since they’ve been actively recruiting people to design them in their job openings. GW2 can be the same game with raids just added along the living world.

There is PVP coming in HoT, Stronghold, though something tells me if someone wants to play a MOBA they’ll be looking elsewhere.

Their love of PVP certainly has me concerned. Yes you see a variation of gear usages in PVP, but the entire play style is not something I enjoy at all. Colin’s comments about PVP while discussing raids worries me. PVP plays a whole lot different than most PVE. I want a harder version of the PVE we have not a completely different style that I won’t find fun.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Kormeg.2469:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

PvP seems to eat most of their time and that is the most useless game mode. It also eats up huge amounts of money for no reason.

If you really want to free up dev time and money encourage them to get rid of PvP.

“I don’t like this part of the game, therefore it’s useless. Scrap their mode and spend more resources on what I want”.

Classy.

/hyperbole

guess I need to tag these things.

Though objectively PvP uses significantly more money with significantly less returns.

Their “world-wide” tournaments gave away over $100,000 and drew less than 20,000 viewers I believe.

Most of their current revenue stream is from selling HoT, which contains no PvP content and is entirely funded by PvE players.

It just makes sense that they should focus on the parts of the game that are drawing players in. When was the last time you heard someone praise GW2 for its “awesome and varied PvP with great balance”?

Probably never. GW2 is praised for its beautiful world, fast PvE content, awesome story, and never increasing level cap.

I used to pvp a lot, and I used to know many players that that’s all they did. Gw2 has one of the most action oreinted, and skill-based pvp setups that I have ever seen in an MMO. Relative balance is just that, relative. But the combat itself is superb.

I’d agree that Anet should not try to enter into the esport market, It’s just not their strength. At the same time I don’t see why are trying to discount the mode (apart from the esports consideration) considering you obviously have limited interaction with the pvp community.

When I tell my friends about gw2, I tell them about the relatively low grind and the skill based pvp. The beautiful world and ‘awesome’ story dont carry any weight for me, so please don’t presume to know what every thinks is best about the game.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Kormeg.2469:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

PvP seems to eat most of their time and that is the most useless game mode. It also eats up huge amounts of money for no reason.

If you really want to free up dev time and money encourage them to get rid of PvP.

“I don’t like this part of the game, therefore it’s useless. Scrap their mode and spend more resources on what I want”.

Classy.

/hyperbole

guess I need to tag these things.

Though objectively PvP uses significantly more money with significantly less returns.

Their “world-wide” tournaments gave away over $100,000 and drew less than 20,000 viewers I believe.

Most of their current revenue stream is from selling HoT, which contains no PvP content and is entirely funded by PvE players.

It just makes sense that they should focus on the parts of the game that are drawing players in. When was the last time you heard someone praise GW2 for its “awesome and varied PvP with great balance”?

Probably never. GW2 is praised for its beautiful world, fast PvE content, awesome story, and never increasing level cap.

Strongholds? New Wvw maps? Both being released with HoT. Also most tourney money is covered by sponsors. Also neither you nor I know how much money is spent is the shop by pvp players, I do know I spend the bulk of my time in pvp when solo or wvw with Guild and I have spent more money then I like to think about on this game.

I would guess that most playeRS are more like me, they have stuff they prefer (for me pvp and wvw) yet they still do a bit of everything.

I still see what the ops concern is, it’s the chance that they dev team becomes hyper focused on raid content because some people can burn thru the content super fast and become super vocal abouy wanting more. It’s like feeding the plant from little shop of horrors.

Jerus.4350:

There is PVP coming in HoT, Stronghold, though something tells me if someone wants to play a MOBA they’ll be looking elsewhere.

Their love of PVP certainly has me concerned. Yes you see a variation of gear usages in PVP, but the entire play style is not something I enjoy at all. Colin’s comments about PVP while discussing raids worries me. PVP plays a whole lot different than most PVE. I want a harder version of the PVE we have not a completely different style that I won’t find fun.

I thunk his comment has more to do with things like cleansing, boon coruption, and all the other things that are used way more in pvp then in current pve. Can’t hurt to make more skills and abilities needed in pve

Samhayn.2385:

Jerus.4350:

There is PVP coming in HoT, Stronghold, though something tells me if someone wants to play a MOBA they’ll be looking elsewhere.

Their love of PVP certainly has me concerned. Yes you see a variation of gear usages in PVP, but the entire play style is not something I enjoy at all. Colin’s comments about PVP while discussing raids worries me. PVP plays a whole lot different than most PVE. I want a harder version of the PVE we have not a completely different style that I won’t find fun.

I thunk his comment has more to do with things like cleansing, boon coruption, and all the other things that are used way more in pvp then in current pve. Can’t hurt to make more skills and abilities needed in pve

If it is, sweet, we’ve all wanted it and it surely needs it. I just can’t say it enough that I want the PVE game taken to the next level(high focus on active defense), not turned into the PVP feel(much more soaking up damage while you wait for the big attacks to avoid).

Kormeg.2469:

Torolan.5816:

Kormeg.2469:

Torolan.5816:

…Anet has no qualms about putting the breaks on something or changing their strategy midair.

I know right? Responding to what their player base wants is ludicrous?! LOL!

Why do you think they’re coming out with a boxed expansion after previously saying they wouldn’t? Why do you think the content of it is probably going to be small? Why do you think raids are just now coming into the game?

Players wanted these things to happen, despite Anets plans so they changed those plans to suit those player wants. You don’t succeed in a capitalist market by having a rigid plan and sticking to it hoping for better, you adapt.

Uhm, no, it´s not ludicrous? Don´t know why you spring out of your box with so much effort, but I actually agreed that raids are the curent state of the art toy.
So what is one of the pillars of your precious capitalist market system? Adaption. Say it with me: Adaption. Repeat: Adaption.
Now think it further with me:
If raids are not the band aid Anet is looking for, it will be abandoned. Why? Because they adapted.

I don´t see my opinion actualyl contradict in any point with yours, do you?

The entire first line of my point was sarcasm. I’m pretty sure you din’t get that.

Also, considering that you think we are saying the same thing now, I realize I have no idea what you were trying to say in your post I quoted. Regardless, my point is this: players were not happy with how the living story was going, so Anet adapted by working on a boxed exapansion. Players were not happy with the lack of difficult coordinated endgame content available, so Anet adapted by introducing raids.

The point of this thread in general, as I see it, is to complain about how things apart from what the OP wants are being given attention. My post is to try and explain that reason for alterations in vision have to do with the need to adapt to player wants.

People still gonna be selfish tho.

Sadly, a message board is not a good medium for sarcasm, but I get it now.^^

My point was this:
Years ago, devs said:
“We want to promote dungeons.”
Some months later:
“We want fractals to be our new dungeons. Hooray!”
Again some months later:
“Open World ls1 is the way to go.”
Some time later:
“Yeah, well, ls2 is going to be instanced.”
And again and metaphorically today:
“We bring you: Raids!”
At some date in the future, and this is where I am looking at with my state of the art comment:
“Well, according to our numbers, and maybe because we neglected them like every other pet project we had, numbers are not good with raids. I am now proud to present you open worlds PVP! It´s gonna save our numbers and sorry behinds from the unemployment line, you know?!”

redcomyn.4651:

So the first step to WoW-ification has occurred. I wonder how long it will take for the next “oh so reasonable” step, and exactly what that step will be.

LOL. Because taking good things and making them is bad right? Go see how many things wow took from other games. Like 90%. What you cal wowification already existed long before. Everquest had raids before wow existed. Ultima Online had open non instanced dungeons before any other mmo.

I will reserve judgement for AFTER release and having had played for some time already.