Guild Wars 2

Initially it was my understanding that skills that could “taunt” were not introduced into the game with the idea that a major point in the game was every class plays every roll, thus skills that taunted or did any significant amount of healing to other players were ‘taboo’ because we didn’t want the standard Tank/DPS/Healer triangle that bogged down every other MMO. Taunt I feel will introduce the concept of “dedicated tank” to GW2; as players will build themselves with large amounts of armor or blocking skills then taunt and soak up the damage while other players sit back and idly unleash their attacks and spells. Once this happens it’s a slippery slope before the other two roles are segregated out to specific classes, something I know anet was trying very hard to avoid.

Don’t get me wrong I see why taunt is being implemented, but it doesn’t change the fact that if this isn’t done correctly GW2 could easily wind up as another vanilla combat triangle mmo. Anyone who has played with me knows this makes me sound like a hypocrite (I built both my mesmer and necromancer to be dedicated healers), but I honestly cant say I support taunt. The risks it brings is just to…well risky.

Simply put, no.

Taunt is a CC. Just because it brings something in your direction (for a second or two like other skills) we have ways of preventing, stopping, and now another new condition stopping boon to come. Its just adding more of what we have with a new twist.

You can start worrying about tanking being a thing when you can actually stick an enemy on one person forever and you can worry about healing when they actually make out going healing skills do more then the small amount they do. As the game currently is both of these concepts are only there in the smallest sense, its all about you knowing how to place yourself and watch your own health. Its damage mitigation not healing and tanking.

As far as I understand it, it isn’t a Taunt in the traditional sense from other mmos with the trinity class system, but more like a temporary redirection of attention from such games (forcing attention for a few sec after which things go back to how they were).

As long as it works like that I’m totally fine with it, and I think it will be a delightfully frustrating pvp ability as well. However, I really find the trinity style boring; I am much more interested in everybody looking after themselves in the name of teamwork, than having a boss glued to a dedicated tank while a healer stands there casting only heals.

taunt is pull, if pull took 1-3 seconds to happen. plenty of pulls in the game, no trinity.

BrunoBRS.5178:

taunt is pull, if pull took 1-3 seconds to happen. plenty of pulls in the game, no trinity.

This is honestly the best way to look at it.

people need to realise that the word “taunt” is just a word. It can mean whatever the developers want it to mean. If you read the actual description you’d realise that in the case of GW2 it’s basically just the opposite of fear.

It will not , taunt=/= tank. Also pls stop making threads about taunt, i have seen more than ten threads about taunt now. @Gailie plz merge all taunt threads.

Nate.3927:

people need to realise that the word “taunt” is just a word. It can mean whatever the developers want it to mean. If you read the actual description you’d realise that in the case of GW2 it’s basically just the opposite of fear.

Taunt in GW2 won’t be like other MMO taunts because threat works differently in GW2 than other MMOs by that I mean threat in this game is poorly designed and once taunt wears off the mob will go back to doing what it was doing before it was taunted, meaning agro doesn’t exist in this game as it does in other MMOs. What taunt will do in this game is force a mob to attack you which is exactly what taunt does in all other trinity MMOs. The only difference is that it’s effects won’t persist past the skills duration.

warbignime.4610:

It will not , taunt=/= tank. Also pls stop making threads about taunt, i have seen more than ten threads about taunt now. @Gailie plz merge all taunt threads.

Please disregard and please stop acting as is your opinion is consensus

Aidenwolf.5964:

Nate.3927:

people need to realise that the word “taunt” is just a word. It can mean whatever the developers want it to mean. If you read the actual description you’d realise that in the case of GW2 it’s basically just the opposite of fear.

Taunt in GW2 won’t be like other MMO taunts because threat works differently in GW2 than other MMOs by that I mean threat in this game is poorly designed and once taunt wears off the mob will go back to doing what it was doing before it was taunted, meaning agro doesn’t exist in this game as it does in other MMOs. What taunt will do in this game is force a mob to attack you which is exactly what taunt does in all other trinity MMOs. The only difference is that it’s effects won’t persist past the skills duration.

which is exactly why taunt won’t bring the triangle into GW2. Did you misunderstood the intent of my post? Taunt in GW2 based on the description we have been given is a new CC. Nothing more.

Nate.3927:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Nate.3927:

people need to realise that the word “taunt” is just a word. It can mean whatever the developers want it to mean. If you read the actual description you’d realise that in the case of GW2 it’s basically just the opposite of fear.

Taunt in GW2 won’t be like other MMO taunts because threat works differently in GW2 than other MMOs by that I mean threat in this game is poorly designed and once taunt wears off the mob will go back to doing what it was doing before it was taunted, meaning agro doesn’t exist in this game as it does in other MMOs. What taunt will do in this game is force a mob to attack you which is exactly what taunt does in all other trinity MMOs. The only difference is that it’s effects won’t persist past the skills duration.

which is exactly why taunt won’t bring the triangle into GW2. Did you misunderstood the intent of my post? Taunt in GW2 based on the description we have been given is a new CC. Nothing more.

You clearly lack a basic understanding of threat generation which is what I referenced in my response. In MMOs threat is generated by damage in GW2 it’s partly based on proximity which would allow a revenant to pull a mob near via taunt and hold the mob with proximity. This functions differently than most MMOs but the effect is similar.

This reminds me of the days before GW2 was launched.

“OMG! GW2 has Fear! We’ll get chain-feared for 30 seconds in PvP! Will not buy.”

Taunt in GW2 isn’t an aggro mechanic.
It’s just a reverse Fear.
Instead of making your target run away it makes your target run towards you.

Probably handy at pulling ranged mobs, or making people run off towers in WvW.

Kinda like Necro’s Spectral Grasp and Thief’s Scorpion Wire.

Ssenkra Bloodroot.1028:

Initially it was my understanding that skills that could “taunt” were not introduced into the game with the idea that a major point in the game was every class plays every roll, thus skills that taunted or did any significant amount of healing to other players were ‘taboo’ because we didn’t want the standard Tank/DPS/Healer triangle that bogged down every other MMO. Taunt I feel will introduce the concept of “dedicated tank” to GW2; as players will build themselves with large amounts of armor or blocking skills then taunt and soak up the damage while other players sit back and idly unleash their attacks and spells. Once this happens it’s a slippery slope before the other two roles are segregated out to specific classes, something I know anet was trying very hard to avoid.

Don’t get me wrong I see why taunt is being implemented, but it doesn’t change the fact that if this isn’t done correctly GW2 could easily wind up as another vanilla combat triangle mmo. Anyone who has played with me knows this makes me sound like a hypocrite (I built both my mesmer and necromancer to be dedicated healers), but I honestly cant say I support taunt. The risks it brings is just to…well risky.

Ok so it’s ok for you to play a Healer role which you enjoy, but not ok for people to play a tank role that they enjoy?

personally i view taunt – not only as a reverse fear (will be hysterical across a cliff in wvw) – but also a way to give other non-necro classes a reliable CC/interrupt. not to mention in pvp situations it may be similar to mesmer misdirections in that it also changes the focus of your target from your current to the taunter, wasting precious seconds to take down someone close to death before they can recover. (warrior about to KO with a kill shot is taunted to someone with a reflect up. ouch.)

most likely the greatest duration of taunt will be something like 2 seconds with every extension modifier applied – also similar to fear.

TL;DR – taunt is basically reverse-fear given to non-necros for similar tactical opportunities.

Knighthonor.4061:

Ssenkra Bloodroot.1028:

Initially it was my understanding that skills that could “taunt” were not introduced into the game with the idea that a major point in the game was every class plays every roll, thus skills that taunted or did any significant amount of healing to other players were ‘taboo’ because we didn’t want the standard Tank/DPS/Healer triangle that bogged down every other MMO. Taunt I feel will introduce the concept of “dedicated tank” to GW2; as players will build themselves with large amounts of armor or blocking skills then taunt and soak up the damage while other players sit back and idly unleash their attacks and spells. Once this happens it’s a slippery slope before the other two roles are segregated out to specific classes, something I know anet was trying very hard to avoid.

Don’t get me wrong I see why taunt is being implemented, but it doesn’t change the fact that if this isn’t done correctly GW2 could easily wind up as another vanilla combat triangle mmo. Anyone who has played with me knows this makes me sound like a hypocrite (I built both my mesmer and necromancer to be dedicated healers), but I honestly cant say I support taunt. The risks it brings is just to…well risky.

Ok so it’s ok for you to play a Healer role which you enjoy, but not ok for people to play a tank role that they enjoy?

there wont be healer and there wont be tanks. accept it already and get over it.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Nate.3927:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Nate.3927:

people need to realise that the word “taunt” is just a word. It can mean whatever the developers want it to mean. If you read the actual description you’d realise that in the case of GW2 it’s basically just the opposite of fear.

Taunt in GW2 won’t be like other MMO taunts because threat works differently in GW2 than other MMOs by that I mean threat in this game is poorly designed and once taunt wears off the mob will go back to doing what it was doing before it was taunted, meaning agro doesn’t exist in this game as it does in other MMOs. What taunt will do in this game is force a mob to attack you which is exactly what taunt does in all other trinity MMOs. The only difference is that it’s effects won’t persist past the skills duration.

which is exactly why taunt won’t bring the triangle into GW2. Did you misunderstood the intent of my post? Taunt in GW2 based on the description we have been given is a new CC. Nothing more.

You clearly lack a basic understanding of threat generation which is what I referenced in my response. In MMOs threat is generated by damage in GW2 it’s partly based on proximity which would allow a revenant to pull a mob near via taunt and hold the mob with proximity. This functions differently than most MMOs but the effect is similar.

and how exactly is that any different from guardian gs 5? or thief scorpion wire? or any number of other skills on other classes that pulls/pushes foes around? You’re complaining for the sake of complaining not because you actually have a valid point to back you up.

A-Net still has to throw out some details but I also don’t think it will bring in the trinity to GW2. Simply because a taunt skill is not even 10% of what it needs to be a WoW, or Everquest II etc combat system. The trinity consist of 3 mayor elements. Threat generation is the maybe most important one and I cant imagine A-Net is going to change that. Massive need for full time healers is teh second thing and here again I doubt they will boost healing output so strong that its sufficient to counter heal 2-3 silver mobs attacking a “tank”. The 3rd thing thats needed is nto just 1 taunt. Its required in most oldschool MMO’s to have a single taunt and then a AOE taunt, and then maybe some other extra taunt mechanic. For me it really seems that A-Net is just bringing 1 little part of trinity into HoT to enable more complex boss mechanics, raid-like content, etc.

At least thats what I hope for
For instance I always liked the Age of Conan System, where everyone was contributing damage and taunt was not so reliable when asassins started bursting ^^

Nate.3927:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Nate.3927:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Nate.3927:

people need to realise that the word “taunt” is just a word. It can mean whatever the developers want it to mean. If you read the actual description you’d realise that in the case of GW2 it’s basically just the opposite of fear.

Taunt in GW2 won’t be like other MMO taunts because threat works differently in GW2 than other MMOs by that I mean threat in this game is poorly designed and once taunt wears off the mob will go back to doing what it was doing before it was taunted, meaning agro doesn’t exist in this game as it does in other MMOs. What taunt will do in this game is force a mob to attack you which is exactly what taunt does in all other trinity MMOs. The only difference is that it’s effects won’t persist past the skills duration.

which is exactly why taunt won’t bring the triangle into GW2. Did you misunderstood the intent of my post? Taunt in GW2 based on the description we have been given is a new CC. Nothing more.

You clearly lack a basic understanding of threat generation which is what I referenced in my response. In MMOs threat is generated by damage in GW2 it’s partly based on proximity which would allow a revenant to pull a mob near via taunt and hold the mob with proximity. This functions differently than most MMOs but the effect is similar.

and how exactly is that any different from guardian gs 5? or thief scorpion wire? or any number of other skills on other classes that pulls/pushes foes around? You’re complaining for the sake of complaining not because you actually have a valid point to back you up.

Taunt is the same as Binding Blade and Scorpion Wire as it makes the target move to the caster. The move isn’t instant (like the other skills) but it forces the target to attack the user.

However that forced attack doesn’t mean the user of the taunt is on top of the priority list. In other MMORPGs it is STATED that it also puts the tank on the top of the list, in GW2 we have zero indication that it does so. In other words, once the Taunt effect is over, the mob will go back to whoever it was already attacking.

It’s true that mob threat works with proximity, so someone using Taunt on mobs could theoretically make the mobs attack him and ignore characters that are attacking from far away. But how exactly is that going to help if the party is in close/melee range so they can share their boons and buffs with each other?

It’s counter productive to have one character pull the mob in melee and let everyone else nuke from afar. Doesn’t help with buffs and support.

Also, big bosses and lots of mobs have cleave attacks, even if you force a mob to attack you, all other melee characters will also be hit, EVEN during the Taunt period…

To give a hint of how Taunt will not result in a “tank” role, I will actually point you to Labyrinthine cliffs.

The last time we were able to go there, I was facing the fire elemental. In the first few seconds of the fight, I had managed to generate enough threat that I remained the Elemental’s top priority even as I backed off to over 2,000 range away. My max range was only 900 at the time (scepter/dagger necro, didn’t swap to staff). I had backed off to recover and the thing went wading through the small army attacking it in melee to try and continue to fire at me.

Yes, Proximity is part of the threat calclations for AI. So is Toughness, Vitality, and damage output, all operating in different ways (for example, some mobs are more likely to go for high toughness, low vitality targets while others prioritize damage above all else). Taunt will do very, very little to actually alter a mob’s aggro.

No, because it will be 2 sec. duration on a 40s cooldown, like all other CC in the game.

NoTrigger.8396:

Knighthonor.4061:

Ssenkra Bloodroot.1028:

Initially it was my understanding that skills that could “taunt” were not introduced into the game with the idea that a major point in the game was every class plays every roll, thus skills that taunted or did any significant amount of healing to other players were ‘taboo’ because we didn’t want the standard Tank/DPS/Healer triangle that bogged down every other MMO. Taunt I feel will introduce the concept of “dedicated tank” to GW2; as players will build themselves with large amounts of armor or blocking skills then taunt and soak up the damage while other players sit back and idly unleash their attacks and spells. Once this happens it’s a slippery slope before the other two roles are segregated out to specific classes, something I know anet was trying very hard to avoid.

Don’t get me wrong I see why taunt is being implemented, but it doesn’t change the fact that if this isn’t done correctly GW2 could easily wind up as another vanilla combat triangle mmo. Anyone who has played with me knows this makes me sound like a hypocrite (I built both my mesmer and necromancer to be dedicated healers), but I honestly cant say I support taunt. The risks it brings is just to…well risky.

Ok so it’s ok for you to play a Healer role which you enjoy, but not ok for people to play a tank role that they enjoy?

there wont be healer and there wont be tanks. accept it already and get over it.

fun facts:

quite a large number of AI tendencies have been reworked to priority toughness over damage done, with proximity being at the top of the AI tendency agro list with only a handful of hate mechanics(hate = switching targets regardless of agro performance). The last couple of yolo runs I’ve done, the bandit riflemen have chosen to target my friend who is armmed with a high toughness rabid necromancer build over me, a full power glass engie which is not what they originally did, they originally target whoever has the lowest effective health first which was always me.

with a +outgoing healing fully amped, a healing guard can maintain a full zerker warrior face tanking quite a large number of bosses within reason (only receiving none one shot mechanics) just like how healing is balanced in WoW, a healer can only maintain a tank in high level content only if his mitigation is perfect and only if he’s receiving unavoidable auto attacks, the moment anyone takes anything not needed, the risk in wiping shoots up to 99%.

by bringing a healing guardian against old tom on 50, you do enough healing through poison that you don’t even have to do the crystals

EDIT: I should clarify old tom with lower damage parties who can’t blow him up with a couple of might + win bow AoE rotations before the gas cloud even initiates.

EDIT 2: I should clarify again by saying you can keep them topped off

EDIT 3: don’t forget about the new healing power + outgoing healing effectiveness food that came out with lunar festival!

IllegalChocolate.6938:

fun facts:

quite a large number of AI tendencies have been reworked

if its a “fact” do you have any proof?

IllegalChocolate.6938:

with a +outgoing healing fully amped, a healing guard can maintain a full zerker warrior face tanking quite a large number of bosses within reason (only receiving none one shot mechanics) just like how healing is balanced in WoW, a healer can only maintain a tank in high level content only if his mitigation is perfect and only if he’s receiving unavoidable auto attacks, the moment anyone takes anything not needed, the risk in wiping shoots up to 99%.

by bringing a healing guardian against old tom on 50, you do enough healing through poison that you don’t even have to do the crystals

EDIT: I should clarify old tom with lower damage parties who can’t blow him up with a couple of might + win bow AoE rotations.

first of all, you can facetank like every encounter in this game. secondly, if you are a halfway decent player at least, you wont need pseudo healers or any defensive gear, because you will be able to sustain any damage with the skill based combat system (active defense) and group support from utility skills, weapon skills, traits, combo fields. exactly how the game is meant to be played in PvE.
and you dont need crystals or a “healing” guardian for old tom, ever, if you know what you are doing

OP from your topic title you clearly do not know what the trinity means.

Guild wars 2 has a trinity of its own. Taunt isn’t the defining thing in the holy trinity, fixed roles are.

A tank can only tank and soak up damage. A Dps can only dps and is weak to damage. A healer can mostly only heal and cannot be relied upon for dps and tanking. Once you pick any one of the three roles you are stuck with it forever. That is the defining feature of the holy trinity.

Guild wars 2 doesn’t have fixed roles. You can be both support and damage. you can be both damage and control. Taunt doesn’t do anything different especially majorly different from fear.

Let’s play a game. How many times can we get this exact question on the first page of the forums?

NoTrigger.8396:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

fun facts:

quite a large number of AI tendencies have been reworked

if its a “fact” do you have any proof?

IllegalChocolate.6938:

with a +outgoing healing fully amped, a healing guard can maintain a full zerker warrior face tanking quite a large number of bosses within reason (only receiving none one shot mechanics) just like how healing is balanced in WoW, a healer can only maintain a tank in high level content only if his mitigation is perfect and only if he’s receiving unavoidable auto attacks, the moment anyone takes anything not needed, the risk in wiping shoots up to 99%.

by bringing a healing guardian against old tom on 50, you do enough healing through poison that you don’t even have to do the crystals

EDIT: I should clarify old tom with lower damage parties who can’t blow him up with a couple of might + win bow AoE rotations.

first of all, you can facetank like every encounter in this game. secondly, if you are a halfway decent player at least, you wont need pseudo healers or any defensive gear, because you will be able to sustain any damage with the skill based combat system (active defense) and group support from utility skills, weapon skills, traits, combo fields. exactly how the game is meant to be played in PvE.
and you dont need crystals or a “healing” guardian for old tom, ever, if you know what you are doing

I’ll see if I can record some reliable footage but you can also test this yourself as well. Arm one of your guys in a full toughness spec and have everyone yolo everything to see who the NPCs prefer to go for. I can tell you right now that a couple months ago, I was always the prime target in full glass with 4 other people in much tankier setups in CM, this is no longer the case for me in that dungeon.

Try this with the molten duo as well, I prefer 2 people 1 person in full toughness the other in full glass and see how the bosses behaves. Try to separate them and examine where the molten firestorm fires his AoE. I’ve had to chase the molten berserker a couple times because he kept moving towards my comrades in higher toughness specs who were on the opposite side of the room messing with the firestorm. He even completely ignored me for minutes.

Whether you need a “healing” guardian or not is besides the point, the fact that he can maintain health through everything that he throws at you WITH the poison dots is the point I’m trying to make. Fully amped, you’re armed with 32.5% additional outgoing healing from runes, sigils, and food, with the healing power you have, its becoming a bigger thing. Don’t forget that Anet themselves has also recognized “support” as a literal role with support skills and the stat archetype to complement it.

Fact is, there is going to be more pushes for those play styles that people want, you can deny it all you want, its happening. Just look at the new rice balls that came out with the lunar festival.

silvermember.8941:

Taunt isn’t the defining thing in the holy trinity, fixed roles are.

This is not accurate. The holy trinity is not defined by fixed roles, but by very specific fixed roles: dps, heal, tank. Swap one of them for another (control, support, roam, burst, whatever), and it would no longer be the holy trinity, even if roles were still enforced.

nope. it’s basically just another cc that can be used to interrupt and focus people down, like Axe in Dota 2. there wont be any trinity, and im grateful for that. it’s dumb. there’s a reason I don’t play WoW.

DiogoSilva.7089:

silvermember.8941:

Taunt isn’t the defining thing in the holy trinity, fixed roles are.

This is not accurate. The holy trinity is not defined by fixed roles, but by very specific fixed roles: dps, heal, tank. Swap one of them for another (control, support, roam, burst, whatever), and it would no longer be the holy trinity, even if roles were still enforced.

So exactly what I said?

I know reading can be a lot of post on a forum is d tedious but maybe go reread what I wrote. I say almost exactly what you said. (meaning your first sentence).

DiogoSilva.7089:

silvermember.8941:

Taunt isn’t the defining thing in the holy trinity, fixed roles are.

This is not accurate. The holy trinity is not defined by fixed roles, but by very specific fixed roles: dps, heal, tank. Swap one of them for another (control, support, roam, burst, whatever), and it would no longer be the holy trinity, even if roles were still enforced.

The reason as to why its considered “holy” is because you should by numbers not be able to survive with one of the pieces missing. The moment you can survive and complete a dungeon while missing a hard role, it no longer becomes holy. It is holy because it is enforced and only because it is forced.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

DiogoSilva.7089:

silvermember.8941:

Taunt isn’t the defining thing in the holy trinity, fixed roles are.

This is not accurate. The holy trinity is not defined by fixed roles, but by very specific fixed roles: dps, heal, tank. Swap one of them for another (control, support, roam, burst, whatever), and it would no longer be the holy trinity, even if roles were still enforced.

The reason as to why its considered “holy” is because you should by numbers not be able to survive with one of the pieces missing. The moment you can survive and complete a dungeon while missing a hard role, it no longer becomes holy. It is holy because it is enforced and only because it is forced.

no, it’s called a “holy trinity” because the term is a joke on the christian holy trinity. i thought it was pretty obvious.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

I’ll see if I can record some reliable footage but you can also test this yourself as well. Arm one of your guys in a full toughness spec and have everyone yolo everything to see who the NPCs prefer to go for. I can tell you right now that a couple months ago, I was always the prime target in full glass with 4 other people in much tankier setups in CM, this is no longer the case for me in that dungeon.

Try this with the molten duo as well, I prefer 2 people 1 person in full toughness the other in full glass and see how the bosses behaves. Try to separate them and examine where the molten firestorm fires his AoE. I’ve had to chase the molten berserker a couple times because he kept moving towards my comrades in higher toughness specs who were on the opposite side of the room messing with the firestorm. He even completely ignored me for minutes.

Whether you need a “healing” guardian or not is besides the point, the fact that he can maintain health through everything that he throws at you WITH the poison dots is the point I’m trying to make. Fully amped, you’re armed with 32.5% additional outgoing healing from runes, sigils, and food, with the healing power you have, its becoming a bigger thing. Don’t forget that Anet themselves has also recognized “support” as a literal role with support skills and the stat archetype to complement it.

Fact is, there is going to be more pushes for those play styles that people want, you can deny it all you want, its happening. Just look at the new rice balls that came out with the lunar festival.

I’m sure they hired AI consultant because it’s so hard to create a typical trinity AI.

silvermember.8941:

DiogoSilva.7089:

silvermember.8941:

Taunt isn’t the defining thing in the holy trinity, fixed roles are.

This is not accurate. The holy trinity is not defined by fixed roles, but by very specific fixed roles: dps, heal, tank. Swap one of them for another (control, support, roam, burst, whatever), and it would no longer be the holy trinity, even if roles were still enforced.

So exactly what I said?

I know reading can be a lot of post on a forum is d tedious but maybe go reread what I wrote. I say almost exactly what you said. (meaning your first sentence).

What you have said is quoted in my original post. You’ve said that holy trinity = fixed roles, which is incorrect.

Dedicated healers, damage dealers and dedicated face tanks can already exist in Guildwars 2. But, the catch is, none of them are strictly a healer, DPS or tank. Let me take a build from a guildie as an example.

We have a Warrior who used to play a Zerker, Lightning Hammer Ele. His build focuses on avoiding the weakness he hated most about the Elementalist, if he gets hit he’ll shrug it off. Now, I don’t his EXACT specs but I can outline it:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJUQNAseTjMdUGanHWeQHKA0gKdAczDAA-TRRWwABV/Bw+DFU+NRJYJ9BAA-e
Skills sometimes switched in: Fear Me, Defiant Stance when he’s drunk, Banner of Discipline when I tell him to, etc.

The focus of this build is survivability and drawing the attention of the enemy. Clearly, a tank right? But… Not dying doesn’t clear content, so he has power as his primary stat and the bleeds on sword for damage. In the control department he has the survivability to deal with enemy attention far more than most, the sword cripple and snare as well as the shield for even more survivability and a stun. That leaves support, where he also can provide, “For Great Justice!” and Battle Standard for offense as well as “Shake It Off!”, Battle Standard and the Tactics traits for defense.

What I’m saying is, for group content you must understand, if not prepare for, damage, support and control.
Dealing damage is easy, but exceptional players control their enemies so as to maximise damage and minimise risk. Positioning to ball them up while preventing key attacks.
Content is not designed to be done by any single player, thus exceptional players will bring tools with which to support their party offensively and defensively. The benefits of skills impacting the whole party are far more powerful than those impacting only yourself.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

I’ve had to chase the molten berserker a couple times because he kept moving towards my comrades in higher toughness specs who were on the opposite side of the room messing with the firestorm. He even completely ignored me for minutes.

not sure why you would ever be on the opposite side. it doesnt even make sense

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Whether you need a “healing” guardian or not is besides the point, the fact that he can maintain health through everything that he throws at you WITH the poison dots is the point I’m trying to make. Fully amped, you’re armed with 32.5% additional outgoing healing from runes, sigils, and food, with the healing power you have, its becoming a bigger thing.

you can do the same with utility skills, your personal healing skill and teamplay (combo fields), while dealing more dps at the same time. which is how this game is meant to be played.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Fact is, there is going to be more pushes for those play styles that people want, you can deny it all you want, its happening. Just look at the new rice balls that came out with the lunar festival.

im not going to deny that some people still dont understand how PvE in gw2 works after 2.5 years. but thats ok. if they wish to be roleplaying something that doesnt really make sense, as long as they have fun im fine with that.

“Don’t belittle the SUPPORT role by calling it heal. Healing is the least dynamic kind of support there is. It is reactive instead of proactive. Healing is for when you are already losing. In Guild Wars 2 we prefer that you support your allies before they take a beating.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Support

I’ll just leave this here. People can what they see fit with it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combat Is also a good overview of the kind of ideas Guild Wars 2 was designed on.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

quite a large number of AI tendencies have been reworked to priority toughness over damage done, with proximity being at the top of the AI tendency agro list with only a handful of hate mechanics(hate = switching targets regardless of agro performance). The last couple of yolo runs I’ve done, the bandit riflemen have chosen to target my friend who is armmed with a high toughness rabid necromancer build over me, a full power glass engie which is not what they originally did, they originally target whoever has the lowest effective health first which was always me.

Actually that bit about Toughness is wrong on so many encounters. Judging by personal experience (like you) as a full Berserker Guardian I almost always have full agro on every mob and their mates up to a huge distance, even when in the party we had a PVT Guardian and/or a tanky Necro.

I was getting almost all the agro without exception and I only play full Berserker Guardian. Tested in CoF, CM and Arah.

Also, there are lots of mobs that use different algorithms for threat. Biggest example is the Inquest Golem in CoE which almost without fail targets an Elementalist first. Such Ele hate!

I’ve run a lot of TA with my Thief, and on lots of the runs we had a PVT AH Guardian guildie that NEVER EVER got threat on ANY encounter in TA. Not ONCE.

Okay noTrigger, so I can pretty much run any glass setup I want in any content but the moment I want to play with a lot of outgoing healing that all of a sudden invalidates everything I have done for 2.5 years. The moment I want to step out of any meta and play around with any stats outside of the collective mindset that makes me a prime target to belittle without even knowing who I am and what I’ve accomplished.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the zerker meta.

As I see it, it can bring GW2 closer to being a triangle. You can if you want already gear as a healer and a tank and with taunt it will be easier to tank, but there are a few conditions that will make that not really happen:
-It works probably as a stun, so good luck with defiance
-you cant probably have 100% upkeep, so if you haven’t 100% upkeep, the mob can go to an other player

If you can go around (ignore) these 2 points above you can have your triangle. (and you still have zerker meta, so good luck in finding a group like this)

But it’s just a reversed fear and can help to help your fellow players to get the mobs of them so that they can ress or heal themselfs a bit.

Aidenwolf.5964:

You clearly lack a basic understanding of threat generation which is what I referenced in my response. In MMOs threat is generated by damage in GW2 it’s partly based on proximity which would allow a revenant to pull a mob near via taunt and hold the mob with proximity. This functions differently than most MMOs but the effect is similar.

Which would be absolutely no different than just walking up to a mob currently. And would work exactly as well (or as badly).

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Okay noTrigger, so I can pretty much run any glass setup I want in any content but the moment I want to play with a lot of outgoing healing that all of a sudden invalidates everything I have done for 2.5 years. The moment I want to step out of any meta and play around with any stats outside of the collective mindset that makes me a prime target to belittle without even knowing who I am and what I’ve accomplished.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the zerker meta.

you can play w/e you want. but you cant expect to be as effective and efficient with “healing” or “tank” builds as good players with meta builds. its effective in trinity games, because these games are meant to be played that way. in gw2 however it isnt, because the gw2 combat system is totally different.

there is a reason why everyone has a healing skill, there is a reason why everyone has utility skills, and there is a reason why everyone can provide support, cc and dps at the same time. there are no dedicated roles and builds depend on weapons, traits and utility skills rather than gear.

that said there still is the option to roleplay tank or healer in gw2 if you want to do that so badly.

For those that are under the false impression of how GW2 aggro mechanics work which is based off lots of first hand testing off what I and others found consistent. Quite a while ago. The wiki was then updated after I spelled out the basic mechanics and suggested the wiki explanation should be updated. We have nothing more than anecdotal "well, this one time’ kind of statements to imply any of this has changed drastically. No other CCs change this and taunt or ‘tanks’ won’t change this.