Guild Wars 2

Obtena.7952:

I don’t recall Anet EVER saying you won’t have to raid to get BiS gear.

To paraphrase: ‘Explorable dungeons are the Raids in GW2.’ At the time that was the plan, the dungeon gear, while BiS, was not the only way to get such stats.

Then there was, “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours.”

You can see both the paraphrase and the quote here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview?page=3

So, BiS shouldn’t really be the issue, raids or not, because ANet basically did create a game where you did not have to do raids or their equivalent for BiS gear. You’d be better off focusing your disdain on the idea that apart from a marginally valuable stat switch feature (given the relative ease of changing Asc. stats), Legendaries are not better than stuff available via crafting, much as was the case with explorable dungeons. The Eurogamer article, as much as it has been quoted to protest Asc., in that light becomes a defense for placing Leg. Armor in raids. It is, after all, rare and desired almost entirely for its looks.

This post is the epitome of entitlement.

I’ll try to be constructive here, but the OP’s tone is very combative.

Gw2, and HOT, does not have a gear grind. Rather, it has skin grinds. And that’s great. Want to take a break for a couple of months? Your characters will be fine when you get back. They’ll still have good gear.

That said, people still need goals. For some, that’s pvp. For others, it’s a specialization weapon. You choose what content you want to play. And since the reward is a skin, you are not punished for avoiding content you hate.

You don’t need copious amounts of time to raid, once you get used to the fight. But if you don’t want to raid? That’s fine. All you miss are skins. And yes, legendary armor is a skin.

Pvp also has exclusive skins. I may not get them. But that’s ok. It’s just a skin.

Play what you find enjoyable. Almost everything you can do in this game has rewards.

Of course, I would absolutly be fine with not having an armour, with a old tyrian lore attached on it, that you can freely swap it stats…

No gear grind, I dont know who washed so well your brain at the point that you dont even see anymore that you are all the time actually grinding for stats all your gameplay, even indirectly (even just for new characters)…but basicly…if you have an ascended armor versus exotic, its 10% less chances to fail (and I’m not counting build involving new stats heavy Hot maps grinding for months).
Ascended gear is a massive chore to do, and if it does not prevent you of entering the raids, its is one of the determinant factore that will define if you will pass or not the DPS check of the enrage timer.
And its still not considered as a gear grind…problem, this game have been implemented with updates, and was not here at the beggining…so it could be considered as a gear tier addition.
You repeat the same aeras for recolting materials, the same meta event the same way, you are focusing on rewards because its what make you progress toward those stats, you have timegates so you have to connect everyday for crafting a single material…if its not gear grind…what it is then ??

The response is always the same for player complaining….
They just have to shut up and act if those content for minority of players were just not existing…

And seriouly, do you thinks its very mature to take pleasure on having something nice, just because you feel exclusive and glad that most of people cant have it ?
Sound terribly selfish for me…even more in a video game, were everything is artificial and not tied to compelling needs of reality.
I wonder If sometime I would rather pay a subscription in exchange of a fair and truly horizontal progression, that dont keeps you grinding and artificially prevent you from testing other game, just because every nice item is locked behind unrewarding task and insanely long virtual goals…

everyone cant do raid…but most people like dungeons…why just not make an easy mod for it ? Oh yes…I forget, a minority of raiders want exclusivity, and nice shinies that everyone would crave for, just to satisfy their desire of admiration and awesomness…

Games don’t and shouldn’t cater to everyone’s needs, it’s not possible and you are not entitled to get everything. Legendary are vanity items and not even better than ascended items…

That said, you don’t need a lot of time to raid. A friend of mine just does one boss here and there and those sessions take 1-2h.

Furajir.3815:

Like many players, I came to GW2 because it was a very casual experience that didn’t require me to spend 10 hours a day playing to compete. I did that for almost 15 years split between WOW/DAoC, I’m tired.

I took breaks because I know coming back I wouldn’t miss much. I’ve even managed to craft quite a few legendaries casually playing the game. Now here we are, I come back after a year, and learn that you’re required to raid to get the stuff necessary to make this (hopefully awesome) armor.

I have a good job, 4 daughters, a wife, and 2 dogs. I don’t have 2-8 hrs a day to dedicate to setting up, forming groups, organizing voice chat, raiding et. I’ve been a solo roamer since beta, I have hardly any friends. And the ones I do have aren’t elitists.

I feel cheated and I miss my original GW2 experience. It worked, the formula was different and very welcomed. It was a wonderful experience and is what made GW2 enjoyable and unique.

Now I’m just kittened that I’m denied access because I can’t go full neckbeard status for pve in a game I was told I wouldn’t have to raid in to get the best gear.

Bleh

I also have a family and a job, but I’ve completed the first set of collection for legendary armor. I believe I’ll be able to get the armor and the pvp back piece. Not saying this to brag just point out that it is possible.

I would also like to point out legendary is mainly cosmetic and convenient, not better than ascended stats.

The most prestigious armor in the game is rewarded by completing the most difficult content in the game.

And that’s exactly how it should be.

“Legendary” armor isn’t so legendary if everyone and their brother can get it.

Entitlement? Really? I believe that core gw2 was characterized as “braindead” content where you just press 1 to win by a certain population of players. These players addressed Anet about making content for them. Anet ended up making an expansion for this entitled group of players at the cost of many frustrated players who loved core gw2 style of play.

What? You don’t enjoy HoT? Just go back and play the core maps…. Doesn’t matter that many people wasted 50 bucks….. Just go away…. This content is for “us” …

I have 16 characters, all full exotic and ascended trinkets…I made them because it was possible to get maximum stats fairly back in 2012, and complete all storyline path for exemple, vary and try out in a reasonnable amount of playtime to do every part of the game…a complete stuff was worth often less than 100 gold, rather afordable for everyone.
It was not tedious to change stats on your gear…with an expensive stuff its not the same (the actual option is not what I would call satisfying since mystic forge destroy runes/sigils…some sigils that could be really costly because of rare materials, or just lack of recipe, tied to randomness of exotic loot).
But its no longer maximum stuff…If now i want to get maximum stats, for a single gear, a single character (because rune are bound and not removable easily)…
I will need minimum a month of work with at least 3 hours a day to repeat the same old contents…not because I like them, but because its necessary for the progression goal.

The problem with legendary, it that they are no longer only vanity, these have a background, a story, are a form of content…and all they’ve find to acquire them, is to genocide entire mob species for exemple (on weapons), or accomplish hardcore contents multiple times to find enough materials for one…how glorious….how legendary.
Also, theses legendary equipments are like the end of farming, to acquire them would means that now, it only remains (or almost, because of those same sigils, runes and foods) the cosmetic progression….the things that we were expecting to be the only progression before GW2’s release…
Even then, most of these could be bought on the TP…even some parts of Hot legendaries could be bypassed by purchassing materials with gold…
I’m not meaning we should get them freely, but, does it justify such a massive grind ?
Skins are also really important, if you dont like the look of your character, you will likely be less enthousiastic to play it…or you will rush content because you will probably no longer care of it but want a shorter path to the desired look by rushing it.
I’m just asking for diminushing the pressure on stuff and skins…I dont want to play for rewards, I would like to actually play content without actually caring for something else, and having a character that is not optimised break this feeling…because you always feels like something is lacking.
I would like to care on content, not on things in my inventory I need to have better stats or look…
I would like to play with some kind of peace of mind after studies, not to actually do a second job at home.
I dont want to do a content just because it have a nice rewards, wich discourage to produce quality, because the company know that, wether you want it or not, you will have to do it, maybe countless times if you want to progress…

and there is a difference, I also dislike PvP for exemple, but even if I’m really bad at it, I was able to progress even a bit, and discover this mode and maybe become less partial…this, only for a glorious armor track i needed to complete a look…

Can MMO’s, and mostly from one claiming to be special; be something else than farmlands, or contents to repeat ?
I’m not a robot, or any mindless machine…how to actually like a game, were we came to have fun, where everything nice is gated behind segregating contents or tons of stultifying tasks…or chase endlessly something.
Why couldnt it be a pause, a stop instead of another serious work to do…
tasks that may even become difficult at the point that you can no longer pass them doing halfly something else, because you have to be concentrated…;and i wont put another time my own money, because its exatly what expect the company…exhaust us, test us, the most endurant pass…the other are so bored and sick, wondering why they are still doing this for the 40th time, and more likely spend money to stop those chores (because its often too tempting to still go to the end instead of giving up quite close) because a shop have been designed for it…

Of course most of content can be done in exotic, be raid brings you at a level where any mistake could be desastrous, and incentise you to max the potential of your character to get a better chance to survive, potential determined by your equipment…the one wich is insanly expensive to max out.
Unless you have a legendary gear, and there, no worries, you will have all the time maxed stats and freely swaps its (just wait, I’m almost certain that legendary trinkets and rings will soon come…if not legendary sigils, runes etc…)

You could take an hours or two to suceed this raid…or…you could have an unbalanced team, where members discovers mechanics, badly fail, get nothing, have the feeling of wasting a whole afternoon and evening…everyone try and try again, become frustrated, almost have it…but nope sorry, you still need 30 more seconds, time’s out, the team is destroyed another time insults each others and everyone ragequitt before even scratching the paint of the content that a giant spectral and unvulnerable boss is guarding…it leave like a bitter taste isnt it ?

Something must go terribly wrong to state thats its preferable that everyone could not be able to experience the whole content of a video game…and I dont think greed or lack of curiosity are good arguments…

Games are places were everyone is trying to find something it couldnt have in reality…start to put barriers, and tell everyone to work hard to get any things…and then its no longer a relaxing world…

And please, dont pose your personnal experience, that may be exceptions, as rule and truth for everyone…because if there are topics like theses, its maybe because there is certainly a problem somewhere. It cant just be bashed, or simply ignored, because its convenient and confortable to do so rather than solving it, or discuss it…

people want difficulty ? fine…but consider making an harder/easier version of something would be much more conciliating instead of designing an exclusive content, just for a few players (after all, prestigious things should remains titles and achievements, like in GW1). then everyone would be happy, because there would be no more exclusion for any content…

Now there is more than ever a break and conflicts in my guilds…now there are raiders in full ascended in a side, still keeeping doing fractals, competitive content…and feeling superior to the others wont dont suceed in raid because they have a life, dont have the time for farming, but dont see why for this they should be excluded from nice rewards because of dedication requirement, when just a few years before, they were playing a casual game, when everything was doable at any moment, with no strong restrictive requirments…the other become slightly marginalised, just here to finance the need of the other, wich of course, are those ruling the guild…

Legendary gear should be legendary toward game progression and experience…not toward players.

Edit; and I will stop here, I dont see what to add, its just my point of view after all…

Chaos.5072:

The most prestigious armor in the game is rewarded by completing the most difficult content in the game.

And that’s exactly how it should be.

“Legendary” armor isn’t so legendary if everyone and their brother can get it.

Ok .. i suppose that crafting 12 ( core ) + 1 HoT Legendary is not prestigious ?
Im the same boat as OP .. my guild is casual and mature guild .. we tried hard .. really hard .. but nop we can’t kill VG .. so im here with my 250 Magnetite shard earned only with wipes on VG. 2 weeks have passed since the last organised attempt , so i can only conclude that we dropped the ball on the Raids entirely.

I don’t want to pug , i don’t want to pay for Raid kills .. so this is it : I paid Hot Full price like everyone else and i will not see lore/content/reward that is added to the game….. never ever. A.net always provided different ways to obtain things , want a legendary backpack ? do PVP or do fractals if you don’t like to PVP so why it would be different for the legendary armor ?

Farming Flats.5370:

Ok .. i suppose that crafting 12 ( core ) + 1 HoT Legendary is not prestigious ?
Im the same boat as OP .. my guild is casual and mature guild .. we tried hard .. really hard .. but nop we can’t kill VG .. so im here with my 250 Magnetite shard earned only with wipes on VG. 2 weeks have passed since the last organised attempt , so i can only conclude that we dropped the ball on the Raids entirely.

I don’t want to pug , i don’t want to pay for Raid kills .. so this is it : I paid Hot Full price like everyone else and i will not see lore/content/reward that is added to the game….. never ever. A.net always provided different ways to obtain things , want a legendary backpack ? do PVP or do fractals if you don’t like to PVP so why it would be different for the legendary armor ?

You have plenty of options to raid that you are ignoring:

1. Have someone who is experienced with raids diagnose the problem with your guild group.
2. Join another guild to raid.
3. Join a learning run.

Legendary armor is just a skin. Are you upset that you’ll never get the pvp legendary? Are you upset that you’ll never get liadri? It’s OK to have skins tied to certain content in the game.

As for lore, I can tell you there’s not much there. But if you really care, ask someone to open a finished instance for you. Or watch a YouTube video.

Some problems in this game are design problems, and some are personal. This seems like a personal problem to me.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t recall Anet EVER saying you won’t have to raid to get BiS gear.

To paraphrase: ‘Explorable dungeons are the Raids in GW2.’ At the time that was the plan, the dungeon gear, while BiS, was not the only way to get such stats.

Then there was, “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours.”

You can see both the paraphrase and the quote here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview?page=3

So, BiS shouldn’t really be the issue, raids or not, because ANet basically did create a game where you did not have to do raids or their equivalent for BiS gear. You’d be better off focusing your disdain on the idea that apart from a marginally valuable stat switch feature (given the relative ease of changing Asc. stats), Legendaries are not better than stuff available via crafting, much as was the case with explorable dungeons. The Eurogamer article, as much as it has been quoted to protest Asc., in that light becomes a defense for placing Leg. Armor in raids. It is, after all, rare and desired almost entirely for its looks.

I don’t see how any of that invalidates. Raids are dungeons/dungeons are raids; It’s just a label. You ALWAYS needed to do them to get BiS gear.

“best statistical gear” is just a fancy way of saying “From a performance evaluations, statistically, the gear you can get at level 80 doesn’t differ from BiS”. Unfortunately, developers should never speak in absolutes so there is an exception to this; Ascended weapons. Otherwise, I don’t see too much of a problem here; I think it was always the intention to make people do teamed, instanced content for most of the BiS stuff … it would be kind of stupid for them not to.

Absurdo.8309:

Farming Flats.5370:

Ok .. i suppose that crafting 12 ( core ) + 1 HoT Legendary is not prestigious ?
Im the same boat as OP .. my guild is casual and mature guild .. we tried hard .. really hard .. but nop we can’t kill VG .. so im here with my 250 Magnetite shard earned only with wipes on VG. 2 weeks have passed since the last organised attempt , so i can only conclude that we dropped the ball on the Raids entirely.

I don’t want to pug , i don’t want to pay for Raid kills .. so this is it : I paid Hot Full price like everyone else and i will not see lore/content/reward that is added to the game….. never ever. A.net always provided different ways to obtain things , want a legendary backpack ? do PVP or do fractals if you don’t like to PVP so why it would be different for the legendary armor ?

You have plenty of options to raid that you are ignoring:

1. Have someone who is experienced with raids diagnose the problem with your guild group.
2. Join another guild to raid.
3. Join a learning run.

Legendary armor is just a skin. Are you upset that you’ll never get the pvp legendary? Are you upset that you’ll never get liadri? It’s OK to have skins tied to certain content in the game.

As for lore, I can tell you there’s not much there. But if you really care, ask someone to open a finished instance for you. Or watch a YouTube video.

Some problems in this game are design problems, and some are personal. This seems like a personal problem to me.

i actually don’t care at all for the legendary skin … i want it for the convenience of stats swapping. If a new stats combo is released i can try it right away .. this is the major reason why i have built 13 legendary weapons.

Obtena.7952:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t recall Anet EVER saying you won’t have to raid to get BiS gear.

To paraphrase: ‘Explorable dungeons are the Raids in GW2.’ At the time that was the plan, the dungeon gear, while BiS, was not the only way to get such stats.

Then there was, “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours.”

You can see both the paraphrase and the quote here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview?page=3

So, BiS shouldn’t really be the issue, raids or not, because ANet basically did create a game where you did not have to do raids or their equivalent for BiS gear. You’d be better off focusing your disdain on the idea that apart from a marginally valuable stat switch feature (given the relative ease of changing Asc. stats), Legendaries are not better than stuff available via crafting, much as was the case with explorable dungeons. The Eurogamer article, as much as it has been quoted to protest Asc., in that light becomes a defense for placing Leg. Armor in raids. It is, after all, rare and desired almost entirely for its looks.

I don’t see how any of that invalidates. Raids are dungeons/dungeons are raids; It’s just a label. You ALWAYS needed to do them to get BiS gear.

“best statistical gear” is just a fancy way of saying “From a performance evaluations, statistically, the gear you can get at level 80 doesn’t differ from BiS”. Unfortunately, developers should never speak in absolutes so there is an exception to this; Ascended weapons. Otherwise, I don’t see too much of a problem here; I think it was always the intention to make people do teamed, instanced content for most of the BiS stuff … it would be kind of stupid for them not to.

And yet crafting remains a viable means to obtain BiS stats, with only a few prefixes gated, and only at the moment.

Obtena.7952:

“best statistical gear” is just a fancy way of saying “From a performance evaluations, statistically, the gear you can get at level 80 doesn’t differ from BiS”.

No, “best statistical gear” is just a different form of the words “gear with the best stats”, or for the MMO vernacular, a different way to say “best in slot”.

When ANet said even casual players should have the best gear, they meant the best gear. Period.

And best gear is already being possible to craft: it is called ascended. Best gear means statistics not convenience. A convenience that is also rather unused because swapping stats have never been mandatory to clear content and now you can have your stat-swapping with the mystic forge.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t recall Anet EVER saying you won’t have to raid to get BiS gear.

To paraphrase: ‘Explorable dungeons are the Raids in GW2.’ At the time that was the plan, the dungeon gear, while BiS, was not the only way to get such stats.

Then there was, “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours.”

You can see both the paraphrase and the quote here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview?page=3

So, BiS shouldn’t really be the issue, raids or not, because ANet basically did create a game where you did not have to do raids or their equivalent for BiS gear. You’d be better off focusing your disdain on the idea that apart from a marginally valuable stat switch feature (given the relative ease of changing Asc. stats), Legendaries are not better than stuff available via crafting, much as was the case with explorable dungeons. The Eurogamer article, as much as it has been quoted to protest Asc., in that light becomes a defense for placing Leg. Armor in raids. It is, after all, rare and desired almost entirely for its looks.

I don’t see how any of that invalidates. Raids are dungeons/dungeons are raids; It’s just a label. You ALWAYS needed to do them to get BiS gear.

“best statistical gear” is just a fancy way of saying “From a performance evaluations, statistically, the gear you can get at level 80 doesn’t differ from BiS”. Unfortunately, developers should never speak in absolutes so there is an exception to this; Ascended weapons. Otherwise, I don’t see too much of a problem here; I think it was always the intention to make people do teamed, instanced content for most of the BiS stuff … it would be kind of stupid for them not to.

And yet crafting remains a viable means to obtain BiS stats, with only a few prefixes gated, and only at the moment.

I don’t get your point … Anet never said players wouldn’t have to raid to get BiS gear. Not all BiS gear is obtainable by just crafting; many of the mats you need come from raiding. There is no contradiction between things people invent in their heads that Anet said and how the game is realized.

The bottomline here is simple … If you want legendary armor that bad you do what EVERYONE else needs to do to get it. No special snowflakes here.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Furajir.3815:

I have a good job, 4 daughters, a wife, and 2 dogs. I don’t have 2-8 hrs a day to dedicate to setting up, forming groups, organizing voice chat, raiding et. I’ve been a solo roamer since beta, I have hardly any friends. And the ones I do have aren’t elitists.

I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but to me it sounds like MMOs aren’t for you.

+1 Furajir.3815
GW1 was fun and not like that. and when GW2 came out it was really great. Things have changed for the worst.

@Naus the Gobbo you are wrong this is just a game not a life style. MMO’s should be fun

Obtena.7952:

I don’t get your point … Anet never said players wouldn’t have to raid to get BiS gear. Not all BiS gear is obtainable by just crafting; many of the mats you need come from raiding. There is no contradiction between things people invent in their heads that Anet said and how the game is realized.

The bottomline here is simple … If you want legendary armor that bad you do what EVERYONE else needs to do to get it. No special snowflakes here.

Quick question: from what I understand, legendary armour has the same stats as ascended armour, right? It’s only the legendary skin you get from raiding? It’s just confusing because you keep using BiS which really refers to stats not skin. Is there a stat combination that cannot be crafted without mats from raids? Just looking for a clarification.

I’m not really willing to get into a pedantic argument here because I don’t see how that makes or breaks any of the discussion here but to give you my personal opinion:

Legendary gear is BiS, not only because it has the highest stats in game, tied with Ascended, but because (if I understand correctly) it will have the ability to swap stats on the fly as well. That added function does make it better than Ascended, even if that function has questionable usefulness. If it doesn’t have that ability, then I’m inclined to agree with you … seems like it’s just a skin, which is rather questionable as a reward from the hardest content in the game.

Even if a person doesn’t consider Legendary gear BiS … Anet STILL never said players wouldn’t have to raid to get BiS gear.

Obtena.7952:

I’m not really willing to get into a pedantic argument here because I don’t see how that makes or breaks any of the discussion here but to give you my personal opinion:

Legendary gear is BiS, not only because it has the highest stats in game, tied with Ascended, but because (if I understand correctly) it will have the ability to swap stats on the fly as well. That added function does make it better than Ascended, even if that function has questionable usefulness. If it doesn’t have that ability, then I’m inclined to agree with you … seems like it’s just a skin, which is rather questionable as a reward from the hardest content in the game.

Even if a person doesn’t consider Legendary gear BiS … Anet STILL never said players wouldn’t have to raid to get BiS gear.

I’m not looking for an argument either but I think you’re using the BiS definition differently from anet and that’s where the confusion lies, and your use of double negatives compounds that confusion.

Just addressing the original topic here to say that I’d like it if you had more options in how to acquire your legendary – I don’t mind the grind and doing the work, but it would be nice if you could choose what form that work took. At this point I think I’d rather just grind for the gold and buy from the TP but I’d actually prefer to earn it and do the scavenger hunt for it.

Or, since legendaries are mostly desirable for their aesthetics rather than providing superior dps, perhaps one idea could be to divide them up – shiny cosmetic accessible in multiple and slightly less demanding ways (not a click-for-loot, but something that can be acquired eventually even if you play casually and on your own terms) and another weapon that gives a bit of an edge in more challenging content and that’s accessed by people playing and enjoying said challenging content. Combine them for a complete legendary, or just use one or the other.

Amadan.9451:

laokoko.7403:

Amadan.9451:

to be fair i have a job too but a boyfriend that plays gw with me.
anyway the raids don’t require 8 hours a day. our guild dedicate 2 hours 3 days a week to the raids. the raid don’t reset daily, so you have a full week to complete it.
really it’s not a matter of time. although it is a fair matter of skill, so i would suggest not to pug it.
there are a lots of video about those fights that you can watch in your spare time to see what your role can be.
and finally, as you described how you play, you really don’t need a legendary armor, actually, no one needs one to be fair. even though you should be able to switch stat with it, the way you play i don’t think you change build that often and you can always try new builds in exotic

I don’t think it’s so much about time required, it’s more about commitment.

if a raid is scheduled at certain time, you better be there, else you won’t have a slot next time.

yes, it’s like when you decide to hang out with friends, you decide to commit a night out with them and to do so you don’t pick other dates with other people…
but you hang out in a mmo instead. but i don’t see why it is ok to go to the cinema and not ok to decide to spend 2 hours in a raid

Yes its like hanging out with friends. Except there is a 10 man limit. You cannot bring more than 10 people and any less would make the movie reset over and over again. Then when you bring 10 people, you have to make sure their movie equipment is best in slot and they have to have a different role otherwise the movie will reset to the beginning.

runeblade.7514:

Amadan.9451:

laokoko.7403:

Amadan.9451:

to be fair i have a job too but a boyfriend that plays gw with me.
anyway the raids don’t require 8 hours a day. our guild dedicate 2 hours 3 days a week to the raids. the raid don’t reset daily, so you have a full week to complete it.
really it’s not a matter of time. although it is a fair matter of skill, so i would suggest not to pug it.
there are a lots of video about those fights that you can watch in your spare time to see what your role can be.
and finally, as you described how you play, you really don’t need a legendary armor, actually, no one needs one to be fair. even though you should be able to switch stat with it, the way you play i don’t think you change build that often and you can always try new builds in exotic

I don’t think it’s so much about time required, it’s more about commitment.

if a raid is scheduled at certain time, you better be there, else you won’t have a slot next time.

yes, it’s like when you decide to hang out with friends, you decide to commit a night out with them and to do so you don’t pick other dates with other people…
but you hang out in a mmo instead. but i don’t see why it is ok to go to the cinema and not ok to decide to spend 2 hours in a raid

Yes its like hanging out with friends. Except there is a 10 man limit. You cannot bring more than 10 people and any less would make the movie reset over and over again. Then when you bring 10 people, you have to make sure their movie equipment is best in slot and they have to have a different role otherwise the movie will reset to the beginning.

Missing the point – the post. You’re still hanging out with friends (ideally, if you don’t pug).

I dont own any intelectual rights over the “whos right and whos not” kind of argument, but i do have a decent memory, and my memory always pushes me back here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuCr72Dqqog

Have fun.

Obtena.7952:

I’m not really willing to get into a pedantic argument here because I don’t see how that makes or breaks any of the discussion here but to give you my personal opinion:

Legendary gear is BiS, not only because it has the highest stats in game, tied with Ascended, but because (if I understand correctly) it will have the ability to swap stats on the fly as well. That added function does make it better than Ascended, even if that function has questionable usefulness. If it doesn’t have that ability, then I’m inclined to agree with you … seems like it’s just a skin, which is rather questionable as a reward from the hardest content in the game.

Even if a person doesn’t consider Legendary gear BiS … Anet STILL never said players wouldn’t have to raid to get BiS gear.

I wouldn’t classify legendaries as best in slot. They have the same stats as ascended.

As for stat swapping, yes it’ll likely have that ability. But, for me personally, I’ve never found stat swapping on armor and weapons all that useful.

If you are serious about high end content, then you care about sigils and runes. And you can’t change those with legendary armor. And, if the meta changes then it is much cheaper to stat change through the mystic forge. You’ll still lose your runes and sigils, but ascended is much cheaper. And the pve meta, at least for stats, doesn’t change that often.

And I do think that makes the argument, because then all you’re missing is a skin. It’s ok to have skins tied to particular content.

Sourde Noire.5286:

runeblade.7514:

Amadan.9451:

laokoko.7403:

Amadan.9451:

to be fair i have a job too but a boyfriend that plays gw with me.
anyway the raids don’t require 8 hours a day. our guild dedicate 2 hours 3 days a week to the raids. the raid don’t reset daily, so you have a full week to complete it.
really it’s not a matter of time. although it is a fair matter of skill, so i would suggest not to pug it.
there are a lots of video about those fights that you can watch in your spare time to see what your role can be.
and finally, as you described how you play, you really don’t need a legendary armor, actually, no one needs one to be fair. even though you should be able to switch stat with it, the way you play i don’t think you change build that often and you can always try new builds in exotic

I don’t think it’s so much about time required, it’s more about commitment.

if a raid is scheduled at certain time, you better be there, else you won’t have a slot next time.

yes, it’s like when you decide to hang out with friends, you decide to commit a night out with them and to do so you don’t pick other dates with other people…
but you hang out in a mmo instead. but i don’t see why it is ok to go to the cinema and not ok to decide to spend 2 hours in a raid

Yes its like hanging out with friends. Except there is a 10 man limit. You cannot bring more than 10 people and any less would make the movie reset over and over again. Then when you bring 10 people, you have to make sure their movie equipment is best in slot and they have to have a different role otherwise the movie will reset to the beginning.

Missing the point – the post. You’re still hanging out with friends (ideally, if you don’t pug).

Bob have 12 friends, Bob has to tell 2 other friends to kitten off or he can’t watch the movie.

Ellen has 3 friends, she has to find 7 other friends or she can’t watch the movie.

Legendary items are convenience store items that share BiS status along side Ascended items.

Aside from stat swapping on the fly (pretty cool, but not worth the investment IMHO) and the particle effects (some are so over done it cheapens the skin) You get nothing else from the legendary other then ‘Awww cool where did ya get that BRO?!’ from Noob players.

Raids need to be more then just about getting Legendary Armor and Gold for the harassment and annoyances you gotta go through for the content.

Clerigo.9475:

I dont own any intelectual rights over the “whos right and whos not” kind of argument, but i do have a decent memory, and my memory always pushes me back here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuCr72Dqqog

Have fun.

I remember getting all hyped up when I saw this.
Watching this again makes me want to play this game… if it only was truly was like this…
Guess they tried to tackle an immovable object. It’s there, it not gonna move, you just gotta work around it.

runeblade.7514:

Bob have 12 friends, Bob has to tell 2 other friends to kitten off or he can’t watch the movie.

Ellen has 3 friends, she has to find 7 other friends or she can’t watch the movie.

His point: it’s no different to hang out with people in an MMO doing things than it is hanging out with people and do something else in real life. You dedicate time and do stuff together that’s (hopefully) fun.

Your point: there’s requirements to the raids and it’s limited to / forces to bring 10 people.

You see how your point is going into a completely different direction? You argue about the accessiblity, he’s aruging about the will to participate in it. And going with your analogy, surely it never ever happens in real life that someone wants to go do something that only has limited spots or wants to go somewhere and has to bring people. No, that only ever happens in MMOs, I’m sure.

Sourde Noire.5286:

And going with your analogy, surely it never ever happens in real life that someone wants to go do something that only has limited spots or wants to go somewhere and has to bring people. No, that only ever happens in MMOs, I’m sure.

Well, if something like that were ever to start consistently happening in a RL situation, it would cause some serious friction and quite possibly bad blood. In MMOs you can get away with it usually only because people from the guild you’re in in truth often aren’t your friends. If they are, however, you have a problem.

Absurdo.8309:

And I do think that makes the argument, because then all you’re missing is a skin. It’s ok to have skins tied to particular content.

I’m not saying that skins aren’t suitable as a reward here, or even make them exclusive to some kind of particular content. I don’t particularly disagree with anything you’ve said, other than you don’t consider Legendary BiS (if it’s not, then what is?)

My particular issue with threads like this is that people who make them do not respect the very things that make this a game; the rules, the mechanics and the winning condition. They simply desire to win and if they see the rules/mechanics are a roadblock to them, they don’t resign themselves to the fact that they can’t win the game, they take the route that they are entitled to the win (even if they don’t say it explicitly) which means that through some way, the rules and mechanics need to be changed.

This should not happen on a whim, but of course there are real business impacts so Anet should consider it, based on purely the rules/mechanics of the winning condition.

BUT … we already have ‘winners’ for raids … by a big margin too. So from that standpoint, I can’t be convinced that anyone else who is willing, can’t meet the winning conditions as well. Therefore, I see little incentive for Anet to reconsider the rules and mechanics that dictate the winning condition for raids.

Consider for a moment Anet’s decision to have an alternative rules/mechanic they introduced for Legendary Crafting. I believe that was based on an assessment of the old way because there was something lacking there for players (sense of achievement) and Anet has improved that; now we have two approaches. The same could happen in raids, but I don’t see anything lacking that would make Anet to conclude some alternative approach to get Legendary Armor.

Farming Flats.5370:

Chaos.5072:

The most prestigious armor in the game is rewarded by completing the most difficult content in the game.

And that’s exactly how it should be.

“Legendary” armor isn’t so legendary if everyone and their brother can get it.

Ok .. i suppose that crafting 12 ( core ) + 1 HoT Legendary is not prestigious ?
Im the same boat as OP .. my guild is casual and mature guild .. we tried hard .. really hard .. but nop we can’t kill VG .. so im here with my 250 Magnetite shard earned only with wipes on VG. 2 weeks have passed since the last organised attempt , so i can only conclude that we dropped the ball on the Raids entirely.

I don’t want to pug , i don’t want to pay for Raid kills .. so this is it : I paid Hot Full price like everyone else and i will not see lore/content/reward that is added to the game….. never ever. A.net always provided different ways to obtain things , want a legendary backpack ? do PVP or do fractals if you don’t like to PVP so why it would be different for the legendary armor ?

Except the old ways of getting legendaries had nothing prestigious about it, you just needed gold and time ( Most people take months to craft a legendary). So yeah, there is nothing prestigious about your old and even new Hot legendary. Hence it is possible you are having trouble getting the raids done.

Also you give up after what? Just 2 weeks? Ya know how long the first time world completion took for me? 4 months…..

What is further confusing me is you pay so you can play HOT, than you decide raids isn’t something you enjoy so you quit raiding all together ( refuse to PUG, refuse to join a raid guild, refuse to get better with the old guildies). However you still want the rewards and experience that comes with raiding?

I didn’t like dungeons, yet I payed for them in the past, will never see all that content… Also sorry to burst ya bubble but for 2 years we had no way of crafting precursors and plenty of other skins/gears can only be obtained by playing specific content ( Fractal skins come to mind).

Raids are really not that difficult, and mature guilds should be able to construct a mature raiding schedule or construct raid teams when people are up for it, without whining about not getting rewards like dare I say some kids?

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Furajir.3815:

I have a good job, 4 daughters, a wife, and 2 dogs. I don’t have 2-8 hrs a day to dedicate to setting up, forming groups, organizing voice chat, raiding et. I’ve been a solo roamer since beta, I have hardly any friends. And the ones I do have aren’t elitists.

I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but to me it sounds like MMOs aren’t for you.

Correction – MMO’s that aren’t Guild Wars 2 (As originally pitched) aren’t for him.

“If you like MMO’s, you should give Guild Wars 2 a try. If you don’t like MMOs, you should DEFINITELY give Guild Wars 2 a try!”

I am also annoyed that they’ve gated Legendary Armor behind raids. What the kitten happened to “Have fun playing, not getting ready to have fun playing”

Youd.1375:

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

I believe that the problem is way more global. Basically, it’s the direction the game is taking after HoT, since it’s quite different compared to the core game.

In my opinion, with the raids, GW2 is drifting towards the more classic style of MMO and this may be a huge problem for players, who wanted to escape from that style.

Having this in mind, it may be not possible to find a reasonable solution to this problem. And absence of any new content with exception of, yes, raid wings, is not really helping.

You are not denied content. You can find a guild to raid with that fits your schedule or make one yourself. If the developers listened to all the casuals then they might as well rename this to Hello Kitty Online.

DutchRiders.2871:

Except the old ways of getting legendaries had nothing prestigious about it, you just needed gold and time ( Most people take months to craft a legendary). So yeah, there is nothing prestigious about your old and even new Hot legendary. Hence it is possible you are having trouble getting the raids done.

If you think that legendary armor is any more prestigious you’re naive. It’s not the lack of skill that prevents majority of players of getting it, but rather the time and organizational commitment required.

Youd.1375:

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

The solution that raiders propose is to get better at raids. And that, in my opinion, is the correct answer. I believe anyone, with enough practice, can beat the raids.

The problem is that the other side refuses. So we are at an impasse.

Can you imagine how ridiculous the non-raiders would sound if their reasoning was applied to legendary weapons? Consider the world completion requirement. Someone says: “I hate open world pve. It takes too much time to complete maps, and it’s boring.” Your response would be: “Then maybe you shouldn’t be going for a legendary weapon!”

The same reasoning applies here. If you can’t put in the time to learn raids, then maybe you shouldn’t be going for legendary armor.

And there is no statistical advantage to legendary armor. You can have the best in slot gear without raiding.

Absurdo.8309:

Youd.1375:

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

The solution that raiders propose is to get better at raids. And that, in my opinion, is the correct answer. I believe anyone, with enough practice, can beat the raids.

The problem is that the other side refuses. So we are at an impasse.

Can you imagine how ridiculous the non-raiders would sound if their reasoning was applied to legendary weapons? Consider the world completion requirement. Someone says: “I hate open world pve. It takes too much time to complete maps, and it’s boring.” Your response would be: “Then maybe you shouldn’t be going for a legendary weapon!”

The same reasoning applies here. If you can’t put in the time to learn raids, then maybe you shouldn’t be going for legendary armor.

And there is no statistical advantage to legendary armor. You can have the best in slot gear without raiding.

Getting better at raids has nothing to do with the issue presented. Wasting time while waiting for your raid group to fill in, only to get interrupted by your loving family, is more of the problem presented here. Your solution?

Manthas.6234:

Absurdo.8309:

Youd.1375:

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

The solution that raiders propose is to get better at raids. And that, in my opinion, is the correct answer. I believe anyone, with enough practice, can beat the raids.

The problem is that the other side refuses. So we are at an impasse.

Can you imagine how ridiculous the non-raiders would sound if their reasoning was applied to legendary weapons? Consider the world completion requirement. Someone says: “I hate open world pve. It takes too much time to complete maps, and it’s boring.” Your response would be: “Then maybe you shouldn’t be going for a legendary weapon!”

The same reasoning applies here. If you can’t put in the time to learn raids, then maybe you shouldn’t be going for legendary armor.

And there is no statistical advantage to legendary armor. You can have the best in slot gear without raiding.

Getting better at raids has nothing to do with the issue presented. Wasting time while waiting for your raid group to fill in, only to get interrupted by your loving family, is more of the problem presented here. Your solution?

If you can’t find an hour to raid in a week, then perhaps it’s not for you. I would suggest fractals or dungeons.

Not everyone has the same scheduling problems as you. And it’s ok if you can’t commit the time to raid. GW2 offers a variety of content for a variety of players. Please don’t ask that all content cater to your particular situation.

Absurdo.8309:

Youd.1375:

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

The solution that raiders propose is to get better at raids. And that, in my opinion, is the correct answer. I believe anyone, with enough practice, can beat the raids.

The problem is that the other side refuses. So we are at an impasse.

Can you imagine how ridiculous the non-raiders would sound if their reasoning was applied to legendary weapons? Consider the world completion requirement. Someone says: “I hate open world pve. It takes too much time to complete maps, and it’s boring.” Your response would be: “Then maybe you shouldn’t be going for a legendary weapon!”

The same reasoning applies here. If you can’t put in the time to learn raids, then maybe you shouldn’t be going for legendary armor.

And there is no statistical advantage to legendary armor. You can have the best in slot gear without raiding.

What about someone who doesn’t have enough time?

Vayne.8563:

Absurdo.8309:

Youd.1375:

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

The solution that raiders propose is to get better at raids. And that, in my opinion, is the correct answer. I believe anyone, with enough practice, can beat the raids.

The problem is that the other side refuses. So we are at an impasse.

Can you imagine how ridiculous the non-raiders would sound if their reasoning was applied to legendary weapons? Consider the world completion requirement. Someone says: “I hate open world pve. It takes too much time to complete maps, and it’s boring.” Your response would be: “Then maybe you shouldn’t be going for a legendary weapon!”

The same reasoning applies here. If you can’t put in the time to learn raids, then maybe you shouldn’t be going for legendary armor.

And there is no statistical advantage to legendary armor. You can have the best in slot gear without raiding.

What about someone who doesn’t have enough time?

I would quote myself above:

If you can’t find an hour to raid in a week, then perhaps it’s not for you. I would suggest fractals or dungeons.

Not everyone has the same scheduling problems as you. And it’s ok if you can’t commit the time to raid. GW2 offers a variety of content for a variety of players. Please don’t ask that all content cater to your particular situation.

And if that is too much, perhaps legendary armor isn’t for you. It took me a year to complete my first legendary weapon. It’ll take me three or four seasons to get the pvp legendary. That’s the time frame I would consider appropriate for legendary armor too.

Absurdo.8309:

Manthas.6234:

Absurdo.8309:

Youd.1375:

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

The solution that raiders propose is to get better at raids. And that, in my opinion, is the correct answer. I believe anyone, with enough practice, can beat the raids.

The problem is that the other side refuses. So we are at an impasse.

Can you imagine how ridiculous the non-raiders would sound if their reasoning was applied to legendary weapons? Consider the world completion requirement. Someone says: “I hate open world pve. It takes too much time to complete maps, and it’s boring.” Your response would be: “Then maybe you shouldn’t be going for a legendary weapon!”

The same reasoning applies here. If you can’t put in the time to learn raids, then maybe you shouldn’t be going for legendary armor.

And there is no statistical advantage to legendary armor. You can have the best in slot gear without raiding.

Getting better at raids has nothing to do with the issue presented. Wasting time while waiting for your raid group to fill in, only to get interrupted by your loving family, is more of the problem presented here. Your solution?

If you can’t find an hour to raid in a week, then perhaps it’s not for you. I would suggest fractals or dungeons.

Not everyone has the same scheduling problems as you. And it’s ok if you can’t commit the time to raid. GW2 offers a variety of content for a variety of players. Please don’t ask that all content cater to your particular situation.

A few points:

• pre HoT I used to be able to access every game mode in a matter of minutes;
• every minute in those game modes felt like I am achieving something;
• feeling that I could achieve everything is important;
• for the past 5 month no new content except raid wings;
• getting new things to do is important.

Absurdo.8309:

Vayne.8563:

Absurdo.8309:

Youd.1375:

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

The solution that raiders propose is to get better at raids. And that, in my opinion, is the correct answer. I believe anyone, with enough practice, can beat the raids.

The problem is that the other side refuses. So we are at an impasse.

Can you imagine how ridiculous the non-raiders would sound if their reasoning was applied to legendary weapons? Consider the world completion requirement. Someone says: “I hate open world pve. It takes too much time to complete maps, and it’s boring.” Your response would be: “Then maybe you shouldn’t be going for a legendary weapon!”

The same reasoning applies here. If you can’t put in the time to learn raids, then maybe you shouldn’t be going for legendary armor.

And there is no statistical advantage to legendary armor. You can have the best in slot gear without raiding.

What about someone who doesn’t have enough time?

I would quote myself above:

If you can’t find an hour to raid in a week, then perhaps it’s not for you. I would suggest fractals or dungeons.

Not everyone has the same scheduling problems as you. And it’s ok if you can’t commit the time to raid. GW2 offers a variety of content for a variety of players. Please don’t ask that all content cater to your particular situation.

And if that is too much, perhaps legendary armor isn’t for you. It took me a year to complete my first legendary weapon. It’ll take me three or four seasons to get the pvp legendary. That’s the time frame I would consider appropriate for legendary armor too.

See my problem isn’t finding an hour a week. It’s easy for me to find an hour…but not necessarily the same hour. I can’t guarantee a schedule for anything, so everything has to be pretty much spontaneous. That’s why this game has worked for me.

If I want to jump into a dungeon or Fractal with the guild, I’m quite easily replaced and nothing is lost. It really doesn’t work that way with raids. It requires more of a commitment and I can’t give it.

The point is, there are people who raided in other games who came here specifically because the game didn’t have raids and they could get the best stuff without raiding. Now that’s gone.

This game has many facets that are broken down in very separate camps, like those who only WvW, only PvP, only PvE. Those who primarily run dungeons/fractals, those who primarily run open-world content. Solo players and group players. Raiders and non-Raiders. In each category there’s going to be something that you only get by doing that particular content, and usually it’s just achievements or exclusive skins.

In this case they’re now attaching “Legendary” to what would otherwise be a raiding-exclusive skin, but “Legendary” is something desirable by all categories of players. So everyone wants this available to his or her own category of playing.

The only way to quiet the non-raiding masses is to either remove the legendary status from the raiding skin so it’s just another skin (and likely upset your hardcore players), or to add a second set of Legendary armor that is available outside of raids so non-raiders can “have theirs too.” This lets the raiders keep their exclusive skin but non-raiders also get their fancy “Legendary” status.

For those without time to commit to group content or lengthy instances, expectations for obtaining legendary armor is equal to current options for obtaining legendary weapons – given enough time and gold it can be pieced together.

Vayne.8563:

Absurdo.8309:

Vayne.8563:

Absurdo.8309:

Youd.1375:

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

The solution that raiders propose is to get better at raids. And that, in my opinion, is the correct answer. I believe anyone, with enough practice, can beat the raids.

The problem is that the other side refuses. So we are at an impasse.

Can you imagine how ridiculous the non-raiders would sound if their reasoning was applied to legendary weapons? Consider the world completion requirement. Someone says: “I hate open world pve. It takes too much time to complete maps, and it’s boring.” Your response would be: “Then maybe you shouldn’t be going for a legendary weapon!”

The same reasoning applies here. If you can’t put in the time to learn raids, then maybe you shouldn’t be going for legendary armor.

And there is no statistical advantage to legendary armor. You can have the best in slot gear without raiding.

What about someone who doesn’t have enough time?

I would quote myself above:

If you can’t find an hour to raid in a week, then perhaps it’s not for you. I would suggest fractals or dungeons.

Not everyone has the same scheduling problems as you. And it’s ok if you can’t commit the time to raid. GW2 offers a variety of content for a variety of players. Please don’t ask that all content cater to your particular situation.

And if that is too much, perhaps legendary armor isn’t for you. It took me a year to complete my first legendary weapon. It’ll take me three or four seasons to get the pvp legendary. That’s the time frame I would consider appropriate for legendary armor too.

See my problem isn’t finding an hour a week. It’s easy for me to find an hour…but not necessarily the same hour. I can’t guarantee a schedule for anything, so everything has to be pretty much spontaneous. That’s why this game has worked for me.

If I want to jump into a dungeon or Fractal with the guild, I’m quite easily replaced and nothing is lost. It really doesn’t work that way with raids. It requires more of a commitment and I can’t give it.

The point is, there are people who raided in other games who came here specifically because the game didn’t have raids and they could get the best stuff without raiding. Now that’s gone.

I’m not in a scheduled raid group. I pug or grab random people from the guild every time. Like you, I don’t want to commit to the same hour each week.

Manthas.6234:

Absurdo.8309:

Manthas.6234:

Absurdo.8309:

Youd.1375:

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

The solution that raiders propose is to get better at raids. And that, in my opinion, is the correct answer. I believe anyone, with enough practice, can beat the raids.

The problem is that the other side refuses. So we are at an impasse.

Can you imagine how ridiculous the non-raiders would sound if their reasoning was applied to legendary weapons? Consider the world completion requirement. Someone says: “I hate open world pve. It takes too much time to complete maps, and it’s boring.” Your response would be: “Then maybe you shouldn’t be going for a legendary weapon!”

The same reasoning applies here. If you can’t put in the time to learn raids, then maybe you shouldn’t be going for legendary armor.

And there is no statistical advantage to legendary armor. You can have the best in slot gear without raiding.

Getting better at raids has nothing to do with the issue presented. Wasting time while waiting for your raid group to fill in, only to get interrupted by your loving family, is more of the problem presented here. Your solution?

If you can’t find an hour to raid in a week, then perhaps it’s not for you. I would suggest fractals or dungeons.

Not everyone has the same scheduling problems as you. And it’s ok if you can’t commit the time to raid. GW2 offers a variety of content for a variety of players. Please don’t ask that all content cater to your particular situation.

A few points:

• pre HoT I used to be able to access every game mode in a matter of minutes;
• every minute in those game modes felt like I am achieving something;
• feeling that I could achieve everything is important;
• for the past 5 month no new content except raid wings;
• getting new things to do is important.

I think your problem is the general drought of content rather than raids in particular.

With raids, even failures can be progress. You get shards. And you hopefully learn something each time.

Manthas.6234:

Absurdo.8309:

Manthas.6234:

Absurdo.8309:

Youd.1375:

Instead of nitpicking on moot points, let’s look at some real things.

1. This discussion exists, and it’s big.
2. There’s a growing “us vs them” mentality.

Doesn’t matter in which camp you are, or if you’re neutral – the problem exists no matter how you try to argue for or against it. So let’s talk about solutions instead of arguing about who’s right or wrong.

The solution that raiders propose is to get better at raids. And that, in my opinion, is the correct answer. I believe anyone, with enough practice, can beat the raids.

The problem is that the other side refuses. So we are at an impasse.

Can you imagine how ridiculous the non-raiders would sound if their reasoning was applied to legendary weapons? Consider the world completion requirement. Someone says: “I hate open world pve. It takes too much time to complete maps, and it’s boring.” Your response would be: “Then maybe you shouldn’t be going for a legendary weapon!”

The same reasoning applies here. If you can’t put in the time to learn raids, then maybe you shouldn’t be going for legendary armor.

And there is no statistical advantage to legendary armor. You can have the best in slot gear without raiding.

Getting better at raids has nothing to do with the issue presented. Wasting time while waiting for your raid group to fill in, only to get interrupted by your loving family, is more of the problem presented here. Your solution?

If you can’t find an hour to raid in a week, then perhaps it’s not for you. I would suggest fractals or dungeons.

Not everyone has the same scheduling problems as you. And it’s ok if you can’t commit the time to raid. GW2 offers a variety of content for a variety of players. Please don’t ask that all content cater to your particular situation.

A few points:

• pre HoT I used to be able to access every game mode in a matter of minutes;
• every minute in those game modes felt like I am achieving something;
• feeling that I could achieve everything is important;
• for the past 5 month no new content except raid wings;
• getting new things to do is important.

1) Join a raid guild (remember you can be member of multiple guilds), I log in at raid time and access it within a few minutes.
2) No one can control the rate at which you feel you achieve things.
3) I have no idea what to say to this, it demands the entire game is balanced around your feelings (are you asking nothing that you cannot achieve can exist??)
4) I completely understand this point, I was surprised how late it seems LS3 is coming (from the AMA). I am looking forward to some more content too, but the raid has been brilliant so give plenty of thumbs up to the raid team at Anet.
5) I agree again.

I think your dissatisfaction at no new content for you is causing you to want to drag content designed for others to you, I understand the feeling but it should be fought against. I would suggest starting positive threads asking for more content designed for you rather than trying to warp raids.

Wing 2 was excellent btw (2nd boss a bit meh) and I really appreciate what Anet have done with the raid in general, lots of variety in mechanics and cannot wait for more (such excitement on TS after seeing a teaser of what might be next).

Dav.9152:

This game has many facets that are broken down in very separate camps, like those who only WvW, only PvP, only PvE. Those who primarily run dungeons/fractals, those who primarily run open-world content. Solo players and group players. Raiders and non-Raiders. In each category there’s going to be something that you only get by doing that particular content, and usually it’s just achievements or exclusive skins.

In this case they’re now attaching “Legendary” to what would otherwise be a raiding-exclusive skin, but “Legendary” is something desirable by all categories of players. So everyone wants this available to his or her own category of playing.

The only way to quiet the non-raiding masses is to either remove the legendary status from the raiding skin so it’s just another skin (and likely upset your hardcore players), or to add a second set of Legendary armor that is available outside of raids so non-raiders can “have theirs too.” This lets the raiders keep their exclusive skin but non-raiders also get their fancy “Legendary” status.

For those without time to commit to group content or lengthy instances, expectations for obtaining legendary armor is equal to current options for obtaining legendary weapons – given enough time and gold it can be pieced together.

I would not be opposed to alternate methods to obtain legendary armor.

That said, it’s a bit misleading to say you can play how you want to get the legendary armor. Outside of buying it off the TP, you must do map completion for legendary weapons. For the old ones, you must do dungeons or a dungeon reward track. Currently, the only way to get a legendary backpiece is pvp. There is some content you can’t avoid.

As for time required, it takes a lot of hours to get a legendary. If you can put in that time, you have time enough to raid.

As for stats, they have the same stats as ascended. Which you can get in any game mode. Personally, I don’t find the stat swapping all that useful.

Coulter.2315:

1) Join a raid guild (remember you can be member of multiple guilds), I log in at raid time and access it within a few minutes.
2) No one can control the rate at which you feel you achieve things.
3) I have no idea what to say to this, it demands the entire game is balanced around your feelings (are you asking nothing that you cannot achieve can exist??)
4) I completely understand this point, I was surprised how late it seems LS3 is coming (from the AMA). I am looking forward to some more content too, but the raid has been brilliant so give plenty of thumbs up to the raid team at Anet.
5) I agree again.

I think your dissatisfaction at no new content for you is causing you to want to drag content designed for others to you, I understand the feeling but it should be fought against. I would suggest starting positive threads asking for more content designed for you rather than trying to warp raids.

Wing 2 was excellent btw (2nd boss a bit meh) and I really appreciate what Anet have done with the raid in general, lots of variety in mechanics and cannot wait for more (such excitement on TS after seeing a teaser of what might be next).

You see, the thing is, I don’t want to change my playstyle and as I mentioned before, core GW2 used to satisfy all of my needs. I view raids as an invader to the playstyle I adore and I believe they don’t have a place in GW2 as they are at the moment.

You could say, that I am selfish perhaps. But from my point of view, raids came here to my perfect game and messed it up.