Wooden Potatoes reviews the preorder
It was reasonable, but still designed to soften the ANET blunder. The messenger counts when delivering a message. Wooden Potato and Bogotter – while I am sure they’re fine people – have rose-colored glasses because they are so close with ANET. They may have good intentions, but can you trust the message when they have a stake in the game? They are supported by and derive direct benefit from ANET. Their opinions are tainted, even if they don’t mean them to be.
Reminder about potential conflict of interest in the topic at hand :
!https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/194285/not_sure.png!
I used to have the same rap when I did customer service.
“You know, I see your point, now let me obfuscate it for you. You will feel much better without all that anger.”
We called it the sedating strategy.
edited for dumb grammatical error.
“They aren’t hating on ANet like ragey children, they must be biased!”
“They aren’t hating on ANet like ragey children, they must be biased!”
LOL
why is carving wood into the shape of tubers such an oft spoken subject?
I thought this was a basically good, fair review. I enjoyed it. My main problem all along has been the whole FAQs thing where players were definitely led to believe they needed to buy the base game separately and then finding out they didn’t, so it was essentially a waste of their money.
I pretty much agree 100% with woodenpotatoes.
I must admit my ONLY concern is whether it will have enough content. I sure hope it will….
I pretty much agree 100% with woodenpotatoes.
I must admit my ONLY concern is whether it will have enough content. I sure hope it will….
Well, so long as you intend to put over 50-100+hrs into it, yeah :P
“They aren’t hating on ANet like ragey children, they must be biased!”
They are directly supported by EAnet, how could they ever be biased at all?
“They aren’t hating on ANet like ragey children, they must be biased!”
I’m sure someone receiving bonuses for convincing their viewers to pre-purchase cannot possible be biased.
Wooden Potatoes reviews the preorder
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234
And yet, WoodenPotatoes encourages his viewers to NOT pre-purchase. That’s some bias toward ArenaNet.
And yet, WoodenPotatoes encourages his viewers to NOT pre-purchase. That’s some bias toward ArenaNet.
He said there’s room for improvement and repeated some suggestion that have already been made. His final thoughts were that for him, the expansion is worth the price tag.
I agree and I don’t even care about new people getting more with the same money – the core game – good for them! – except those poor guys that bought it earlier on a discount, sorry for them. I was playing this game for all this years and they didn’t, I gained experiences, I had fun and I saw and unlocked for free living world while they will have to pay to get it, so it is ok!
I only see the price objectively and I compare it with the content plus the bonus items we get. So the price, especially for my country is too high for what we get and the pre-order bonuses are an illusion (tittle has no value if it is not earned thought content challenges, plus I believe that most of us that play the game actively, have the beta key from the Silverwastes event). So the pre-order gift is empty!
(edited by Jaetara.4075)
Been watching Wooden Potatoes for a while and he generally looks at things objectively.
Seems like a smart guy.
Maybe he does benefit from Anet’s success but I don’t think it has made him biased.
I’d trust him.
Yes, I love my titles. Master Carver looks good on a thief.
And I carved all those darned pumpkins while fighting the Mad King and his cohorts.
And yet, WoodenPotatoes encourages his viewers to NOT pre-purchase. That’s some bias toward ArenaNet.
He said there’s room for improvement and repeated some suggestion that have already been made. His final thoughts were that for him, the expansion is worth the price tag.
Still, he also mentioned that, although he figured it would be about $50 without a character slot, it doesn’t make it ideal. Like him, I too will be purchasing the expansion with my wife. We just have to decide if we want to do it now and get beta access (and possibly do the ultimate packs since it is technically better. We do buy gems every now and then anyway…).
He also called them out on the FAQ thing. I don’t see how people can call WP and BO shills if they’re saying things like this. Obviously, they benefit if people say that they were the reason they pre-purchased, but that probably makes them more upset at the situation. Any reasonable people would know that merely scolding the consumers would not bring them “to the light” to pre-purchase this game; it might just take time or it might take intervention on Anet’s part to change the pricing model.
Either way, nobody wins here and they know it.
Been watching Wooden Potatoes for a while and he generally looks at things objectively.
Seems like a smart guy.
Maybe he does benefit from Anet’s success but I don’t think it has made him biased.
I’d trust him.
Of course not. No amount of swag shall sway him.
He also called them out on the FAQ thing. I don’t see how people can call WP and BO shills if they’re saying things like this. Obviously, they benefit if people say that they were the reason they pre-purchased, but that probably makes them more upset at the situation. Any reasonable people would know that merely scolding the consumers would not bring them “to the light” to pre-purchase this game; it might just take time or it might take intervention on Anet’s part to change the pricing model.
Either way, nobody wins here and they know it.
He didn’t really have the option of not mentioning that issue, when those that protest are fully aware of that, and the rest only need to scroll down to the comments. This is only damage control.
In any case, he gets money from views and a side bonus from referrals. He’s got himself covered either way, regardless of where the public opinion sways to.
(edited by RabbitUp.8294)
I used to have the same rap when I did customer service.
“You know, I see your point, now let me obfuscate it for you. You will feel much better without all that anger.”
We called it the sedating strategy.
edited for dumb grammatical error.
Hmm, I call it thinking like a rational human being rather being following blind emotion unquestionably.
To think is to exist. To think about thinking is to learn.
I used to have the same rap when I did customer service.
“You know, I see your point, now let me obfuscate it for you. You will feel much better without all that anger.”
We called it the sedating strategy.
edited for dumb grammatical error.Hmm, I call it thinking like a rational human being rather being following blind emotion unquestionably.
To think is to exist. To think about thinking is to learn.
Yes, I helped them move beyond anger to a better place.
And also sold them a service plan.
I watched WP for his GW2 videos. However, this time I would say he is slightly biased towards ANET’s defense on the pricing. Not too much, just a little biased.
I watched WP for his GW2 videos. However, this time I would say he is slightly biased towards ANET’s defense on the pricing. Not too much, just a little biased.
that’s true, he could have told us we got a perception problem and should see an eye doctor immediately, or a neurologist at the very least…
Just saying at the outset that I generally really like WP’s stuff and think he’s sharp and insightful, so this is in no way meant as a flame, but:
I’m really miffed at his glibly dismissive “just delete one of your old characters” reply to concerns about character slots. That attitude, which seems prominent with many (I assume hardcore and/or veteran) players and with other youtubers (e.g. BogOtter), completely takes for granted the difference between their own gaming experiences and the experience of those newer players they claim to care about.
Personal experience: I bought the game in January and I’ve been playing it A LOT since then. It is the only MMO I’ve ever played or ever want to play. I’ve got three lvl 80 characters, one of whom I only just got to lvl 80 a about two weeks ago, one lvl 75, and one lvl 30 (that leaves no free slots).
I’m still working on outfitting my lvl 80s (just made my first ascended weapon \o/), exploring builds, trying new things out, and leveling my remaining characters. I’ve put time and work into them and I have plans and goals for what I want to do with each one. These characters are not old stale things that are sitting around collecting dust—they’re what I’m in the midst of working on right now! So the offhanded suggestion that I should just delete one to free up a slot? Is a bit like suggesting I should trash 1/5 of the effort and time I’ve put into the game since I got it!
Think about how tremendously de-incentivizing that is!
I was in the midst of becoming quite a loyal and invested player of this game. Now I’m honestly enjoying the game less, feeling like there’s this weird expectation built into ANet’s HoT pricing strategy that I should delete some character—potentially the character I’m currently working on at any given moment—to gain access to a character slot for the rev in HoT. It really sticks in my mind, despite how I try to ignore it.
WP suggested, fairly enough, that we should focus on the $50 price tag of HoT and whether it’s too much.
He doesn’t want to acknowledge, however, that for many of us (who don’t have an old “trash” character to delete for whatever reason) the total price of HoT will turn out to be $60 in practice, not $50, if we want access to the full content of the expansion—i.e. access to playing the new profession which ANet has been hyping so much. (The perception might be flawed, but given the relatively sparse info that’s been released about other elements, and the large production of hype around rev, the profession does seem to be a really substantial portion of what the expansion is offering.)
If so many people feel like $50 it potentially too expensive for this expansion, then I would say that $60 certainly is!
Regardless, though, (and even if you think it’s somehow “whiny” or “entitled" of me to feel like I ought not to have to scrap like 1/5 of the effort I’ve put into the game thus far in order to access the full content of HoT for its $50 price tag) the suggestion that I delete a character I enjoy and have worked on hard flies in the face of what ANet said when they first announced HoT: that they did not want to make an expansion which, to quote Mike O’Brien, “invalidates all the work that you put in to your existing characters”!
The bottom line: when they say $50 with no character slot, for me and many others, it’s really a total price of $60 for full access to HoT’s content. But we’re seeing them (and, sadly, WP along with them) trying to sweep that number into the shadows “Pay no attention to the price tag behind the curtain!”-style, and I do feel that, as a customer, I am being dealt with in very bad faith because of it.
Wooden Potatoes reviews the preorder
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234
For those with only 5 character slots, it seems they will be missing out on 4 new Professions, rather than just one.
Truly, the expansion gives us the equivalent to 9 new Professions. Core game (and now the bundle) gives only 5 slots. Just like at release. You had to delete a character back then….or purchase more character slots…to experience everything on offer. It’s not really any different now.
At least, everyone has the option to earn the character slots in-game.
He also called them out on the FAQ thing. I don’t see how people can call WP and BO shills if they’re saying things like this. Obviously, they benefit if people say that they were the reason they pre-purchased, but that probably makes them more upset at the situation. Any reasonable people would know that merely scolding the consumers would not bring them “to the light” to pre-purchase this game; it might just take time or it might take intervention on Anet’s part to change the pricing model.
Either way, nobody wins here and they know it.
He didn’t really have the option of not mentioning that issue, when those that protest are fully aware of that, and the rest only need to scroll down to the comments. This is only damage control.
In any case, he gets money from views and a side bonus from referrals. He’s got himself covered either way, regardless of where the public opinion sways to.
If he’s covered either way, it only means he has less reason to lie. I’ve been watching his videos the past 4-5 months (since I started this account really) and he’s one of the more level-headed and informed people I’ve seen. He also has some pretty good insight and access to the 3D Tyria, which is pretty cool. I don’t have any reason to doubt him, only the marketing division (or NC Soft; jury is still out on that one).
He seems pretty bob-on with his summary.
His channel is actually on my block list so the link takes me back to the main page, lol.
I don’t do cheerleading channels, I have the Guild Wars 2 (new) FAQ for that.
He seems pretty bob-on with his summary.
His channel is actually on my block list so the link takes me back to the main page, lol.
I don’t do cheerleading channels, I have the Guild Wars 2 (new) FAQ for that.
Are you not the guy that made this post?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/YouTube-journalists-need-to-cover-this/first
Seems you only like journalists who have the same views as you do. Going to be funny when some of your favorite journalists see it the same way as these other guys. Guess you’ll have more channels on your block list soon.
I agree in part with it.
MightyTeapot has a good review of the subject too…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC9LC6JLS_I
He also called them out on the FAQ thing. I don’t see how people can call WP and BO shills if they’re saying things like this. Obviously, they benefit if people say that they were the reason they pre-purchased, but that probably makes them more upset at the situation. Any reasonable people would know that merely scolding the consumers would not bring them “to the light” to pre-purchase this game; it might just take time or it might take intervention on Anet’s part to change the pricing model.
Either way, nobody wins here and they know it.
He didn’t really have the option of not mentioning that issue, when those that protest are fully aware of that, and the rest only need to scroll down to the comments. This is only damage control.
In any case, he gets money from views and a side bonus from referrals. He’s got himself covered either way, regardless of where the public opinion sways to.
If he’s covered either way, it only means he has less reason to lie. I’ve been watching his videos the past 4-5 months (since I started this account really) and he’s one of the more level-headed and informed people I’ve seen. He also has some pretty good insight and access to the 3D Tyria, which is pretty cool. I don’t have any reason to doubt him, only the marketing division (or NC Soft; jury is still out on that one).
The point is that he will get less views, hence less money, if the expansion bombs.
He is incorrect on one point. The industry standard for expansions, set by WoW, is not $50 or $40, it’s ~$10 below the standard cross-industry price for new computer games. Right now, that’s $59.99 in the states, so HoT is priced at $50. He points to Eye of the North, citing its launch price of $39.99. Thing is, that was 2007, when the industry standard for new computer games was $49.99. WoD, for instance, is $50 new and WotLK was $40 back when it first came out.
Otherwise, I was surprised to find that I agreed with his other points.
For those with only 5 character slots, it seems they will be missing out on 4 new Professions, rather than just one.
Truly, the expansion gives us the equivalent to 9 new Professions. Core game (and now the bundle) gives only 5 slots. Just like at release. You had to delete a character back then….or purchase more character slots…to experience everything on offer. It’s not really any different now.
At least, everyone has the option to earn the character slots in-game.
Having 5 empty slots for 8 (or 9) professions means that you are able to try all of them and choose any combination of 5 to keep.
If you don’t have a single empty slot, you can’t try Revenant at all. There’s a huge difference.
He is incorrect on one point. The industry standard for expansions, set by WoW, is not $50 or $40, it’s ~$10 below the standard cross-industry price for new computer games. Right now, that’s $59.99 in the states, so HoT is priced at $50. He points to Eye of the North, citing its launch price of $39.99. Thing is, that was 2007, when the industry standard for new computer games was $49.99. WoD, for instance, is $50 new and WotLK was $40 back when it first came out.
Otherwise, I was surprised to find that I agreed with his other points.
WoW doesn’t set the standard price. They have the largest MMO there is, on what base does any other developer ask the same price and offer you a much smaller community?
(edited by RabbitUp.8294)
WoW doesn’t set the standard price. They have the largest MMO there is, on what base does any other developer ask the same price and offer you a much smaller community?
Yup. Smaller community, smaller world, less content, slower development, etc. Every time I have to use a load screen to walk from one map to another, I feel embarassed that ANet couldn’t figure out how to do a single flowing map like WoW did.
GW2 is a fantastic game, don’t get me wrong. I’d choose (and chose) GW2 over WoW any day of the week. But I agree that if we’re comparing prices, then we should consider that the gold standard doesn’t set the price for all games, just for games of the same caliber.
WoW doesn’t set the standard price. They have the largest MMO there is, on what base does any other developer ask the same price and offer you a much smaller community?
There is a certain base cost to producing an MMO. WoW has managed to get many many people to help pay that cost, and found a price point those people are willing to pay. With the money received from sheer volume of sales they can host an almost annual convention extravaganza, have simultaneous world-wide parties, run a gazillion servers, and employ ungodly amounts of people to churn out much more product. But they still have some minimum amount they have to make to cover their costs.
ANet is much smaller. So they have to charge more per customer (WoW far overcharges customers imo). Because at some point, charging too little per customer means not having the minimum resources needed. Let’s say a man needs $50 per day to remain solvent, to cover food, housing, and the chance to improve those necessities. He works as a painter. If he can paint 50 houses in a day, he can charge just one dollar each, the customers are amazed they got it so cheap. But if he needs two days to paint one house, then he has to charge $100 to make a living. The old cliche “How do we do it? VOLUME” has a real basis. There’s a reason handmade things cost so much more than mass-produced.
So on what basis? On the basis of if they don’t earn enough they’ll have to shut the game down or at least not create anything new and better for it.
So on what basis? On the basis of if they don’t earn enough they’ll have to shut the game down or at least not create anything new and better for it.
That’s not a real argument. I’m a consumer not a charity. They themselves chose this model, it’s their problem not mine. And they knew the cost and the competition before going in. If they need to overprice their product maybe they should start laying off people (pro tip: start with marketing), do restructuring, re negotiate contracts, move to a cheaper base of operations just like other companies do. I’m not here to sponsor their lifestyle. Sorry.
“They aren’t hating on ANet like ragey children, they must be biased!”
Except they’re biased… because they have contact with people from Anet.
The only reason they’re not saying “this is great go and buy it” is because GW2, hence their channels, has a big amount ot mature players which can see what this really is. They know this is making a big backlash so they’ll say nice things and give some “options”.
(edited by Someday.3650)
And yet, WoodenPotatoes encourages his viewers to NOT pre-purchase. That’s some bias toward ArenaNet.
Because pre-ordering something you know almost nothing about is never a good thing.
And yet, WoodenPotatoes encourages his viewers to NOT pre-purchase. That’s some bias toward ArenaNet.
He said there’s room for improvement and repeated some suggestion that have already been made. His final thoughts were that for him, the expansion is worth the price tag.
While I do agree that the $100 package makes more sense if you are getting the $50 one (and use gems) the $50 one does not make a lot of sense to begin with. Most of what was announced (traits and such) will be in the core game anyway. Taken in total between PVE, PVP, WVW, and fractals you have a bunch of things but how many people regularly play ALL of those modes equally (which he glossed over)? The only way $50 makes sense is if some of that cost is for the core game.
And yet, WoodenPotatoes encourages his viewers to NOT pre-purchase. That’s some bias toward ArenaNet.
Because pre-ordering something you know almost nothing about is never a good thing.
I agree, i will not buy till i see more content, its not rage i just think it isn’t enough for $50
Ofc full time youtubers think its worth it, because to them, it is an investment. The more content there is, the more videos they can make.
New comers get GW2 with HoT for $50, which is a good price. But for someone who already has GW2 and paying $50 just to add a miniscule amount of content (compared to the content in Gw2 vanilla) is just wrong.
Anet, you already got me once with that $20 upgrade (deluxe edition) for that two week bank on new chars and useless mistfire wolf skill….not this time.
Most of what was announced (traits and such) will be in the core game anyway
But it only comes because of HoT so you can easily count it as content you are paying for with HoT.
The thing about the character slot is this: I don’t like the decision either, but with the original game you had 5 (or 4?) character slots. So you would have to delete or buy new ones if you want to experience this content as well.
So why should it be a lot different with HoT?
Instead of getting 1 additional class that you’d like to get a character slot for you should rather see it like 9 classes for your existing 5 slots instead of 8 now.
There is no big difference. Delete a character or buy a slot. Simple as that.
Just to be sure I say it again: I don’t like it either, but in my eyes it’s a valid argumentation of WP.
All we wanted was a GvG.
But it only comes because of HoT so you can easily count it as content you are paying for with HoT.
Or I can pay $0 and have access to that content anyway.
The thing about the character slot is this: I don’t like the decision either, but with the original game you had 5 (or 4?) character slots. So you would have to delete or buy new ones if you want to experience this content as well.
So why should it be a lot different with HoT?
No battery included syndrome. Base game, you buy it, you can instantly create any class/race you want.
Upgrade your full account with HoT? You buy it then you must pay again to use it. This is somewhat despised by customers hence why as far as I remember, every payed (and some free too) expansions that added a new class came with one or more free char slots unless the slots were very generous to begin with.
Upgrade your full account with HoT? You buy it then you must pay again to use it. This is somewhat despised by customers hence why as far as I remember, every payed (and some free too) expansions that added a new class came with one or more free char slots unless the slots were very generous to begin with.
In my eyes it’s more like this:
You have a garage at a car vendor (char slots). And you were collecting cars for years and years. Now your garage is full, so you either have to find another spot for your next car or throw out one of your older ones.
But someone buying a new garage will have all the space they need for their new car.
Yet you have the advantage of having some awesome old cars in your garage that you love and take care of.
But you won’t say “Hey I bought your cars over the years and stored them in my garage at your place. Can’t you just give me another one for free since I’m running out of space?”
All we wanted was a GvG.
(edited by Entenkommando.5208)
But for someone who already has GW2 and paying $50 just to add a miniscule amount of content (compared to the content in Gw2 vanilla) is just wrong.
Another person who owns a time machine to know exactly what the expansion has to offer.
In my eyes it’s more like this:
You have a garage at a car vendor (char slots). And you were collecting cars for years and years. Now your garage is full, so you either have to find another spot for your next car or throw out one of your older ones.
But someone buying a new garage will have all the space they need for their new car.Yet you have the advantage of having some awesome old cars in your garage that you love and take care of.
But you won’t say “Hey I bought your cars over the years and stored them in my garage at your place. Can’t you just give me another one for free since I’m running out of space?”
The car analogy hmm?
- There’s no way for the vendor to provide a garage spot that will be usable for you cause of location etc…
- You do NOT have to throw into the trash an extra car to make room, you can resell it
Oh such cynicism about Wooden Potatoes’ veracity.
How can you distrust THAT accent?
WoW doesn’t set the standard price. They have the largest MMO there is, on what base does any other developer ask the same price and offer you a much smaller community?
WoW sets many standards for MMO’s both in the minds of consumers and developers. However, even if the pricing practices are due to other factors, it does not change that when new computer game prices rose $from $50 to $60 (rounded), the price of WoW expansions increased to remain $10 below the cost of a new game. ANet is following suit. Companies try to make the most they can without driving consumers away. That’s why game developers rarely price games (and expansions) for much less or much more than other companies price theirs.
Just saying at the outset that I generally really like WP’s stuff and think he’s sharp and insightful, so this is in no way meant as a flame, but:
I’m really miffed at his glibly dismissive “just delete one of your old characters” reply to concerns about character slots. That attitude, which seems prominent with many (I assume hardcore and/or veteran) players and with other youtubers (e.g. BogOtter), completely takes for granted the difference between their own gaming experiences and the experience of those newer players they claim to care about.
Personal experience: I bought the game in January and I’ve been playing it A LOT since then. It is the only MMO I’ve ever played or ever want to play. I’ve got three lvl 80 characters, one of whom I only just got to lvl 80 a about two weeks ago, one lvl 75, and one lvl 30 (that leaves no free slots).
I’m still working on outfitting my lvl 80s (just made my first ascended weapon \o/), exploring builds, trying new things out, and leveling my remaining characters. I’ve put time and work into them and I have plans and goals for what I want to do with each one. These characters are not old stale things that are sitting around collecting dust—they’re what I’m in the midst of working on right now! So the offhanded suggestion that I should just delete one to free up a slot? Is a bit like suggesting I should trash 1/5 of the effort and time I’ve put into the game since I got it!
Think about how tremendously de-incentivizing that is!
I was in the midst of becoming quite a loyal and invested player of this game. Now I’m honestly enjoying the game less, feeling like there’s this weird expectation built into ANet’s HoT pricing strategy that I should delete some character—potentially the character I’m currently working on at any given moment—to gain access to a character slot for the rev in HoT. It really sticks in my mind, despite how I try to ignore it.
WP suggested, fairly enough, that we should focus on the $50 price tag of HoT and whether it’s too much.
He doesn’t want to acknowledge, however, that for many of us (who don’t have an old “trash” character to delete for whatever reason) the total price of HoT will turn out to be $60 in practice, not $50, if we want access to the full content of the expansion—i.e. access to playing the new profession which ANet has been hyping so much. (The perception might be flawed, but given the relatively sparse info that’s been released about other elements, and the large production of hype around rev, the profession does seem to be a really substantial portion of what the expansion is offering.)
If so many people feel like $50 it potentially too expensive for this expansion, then I would say that $60 certainly is!
Regardless, though, (and even if you think it’s somehow “whiny” or “entitled" of me to feel like I ought not to have to scrap like 1/5 of the effort I’ve put into the game thus far in order to access the full content of HoT for its $50 price tag) the suggestion that I delete a character I enjoy and have worked on hard flies in the face of what ANet said when they first announced HoT: that they did not want to make an expansion which, to quote Mike O’Brien, “invalidates all the work that you put in to your existing characters”!
The bottom line: when they say $50 with no character slot, for me and many others, it’s really a total price of $60 for full access to HoT’s content. But we’re seeing them (and, sadly, WP along with them) trying to sweep that number into the shadows “Pay no attention to the price tag behind the curtain!”-style, and I do feel that, as a customer, I am being dealt with in very bad faith because of it.
This is a really valid point and I think highlights the “We want new players!” versus the reality of having and KEEPING new players.
For you then, HoT would have not long been announced so you bought the game, got into the game, enjoyed the game, and now are poised to continue the journey, but even as a new player your time IN the game so far isn’t being acknowledged and I really agree that being told to just “scrap” a character you’ve put time and energy into is quite insulting.
From what I can see, this current set-up really benefits brand new players, devalues new but not brand new players, and isn’t very generous to long term players.
:/