Guild Wars 2

Simple questions:

1) If a player has level 80 characters that have all skills unlocked without doing any PvE skill points, will those characters need to obtain PvE skill points (65 or some other number) to reclaim the core traits which they had already legitimately earned?

2) If so, why?

I’m posting this because I’m tired of the trolls in other threads and hoping for an official answer.

If ANet is wise, they will answer you and say WvW gives complete unlocks.

You aren’t going to get an official answer, outside of what they’ve already said (which pretty much does say you are losing everything). Until they say anything about a grandfathering system (like they mentioned before the first trait change) or a reimbursement system (highly unlikely and they’ve strongly hinted at a “no” here), the answer is:

Yes, you lose everything and must spend the ~1 hour to go get ~65 skill points to have everything unlocked (less if they keep the hero points from WvW in there, but those may also be gone when they introduce the new borderland). But you will most likely not need everything unlocked. How often do you switch your build into using all 5 different trait lines, or use each and every category of utility skills.

The only thing I could maybe see happening (and it’s a long shot). Is if they calculate how many skill point scrolls each character has eaten (and spent on skills), and refund those with mystic forge currency. But, I don’t really think that’s necessary, and they may feel the same way.

Why? Because, to paraphrase Gale, they can’t reimburse everyone everytime a change happens. They are streamlining the new system and changing everything.

1) There will be a finite amount of Hero Points in the game
2) There will be a set order in how you unlock each skill in a given trait specialization or skill line

How do you let an Ele keep Tornado if they never unlocked any other Cantrip skills?

The only other solution that I can think of would be to let people keep what they have but still charge them, putting them at a negative amount of Hero Points, thus to unlock your elite spec you first need to break even and then earn more points to unlock. And I doubt the system is programed to allow any of this.

You have more than enough time to get the skill points before they release the new traits.

you will have already 400 hero points for level 80, you don’t have to unlock everything to be able to play…

you will also be able to unlock more things than just skills and traits, so you should be able to unlock most of them if you skip for example a skill line with skill type you don’t use, for example you don’t have a reason to invest your points to signet line if you don’t use any signets, this way you should have enough points to unlock everything (or at least almost everything) else…

All of these answers are the equivalent of saying “you don’t need your legendary gear to play; you can still play with exotic gear while you slog through hours of boring content on your 14 characters to earn back the legendary equipment you already had.”

it’s not really the same, you can’t compare an item to a character progression which is bound to a specific system with limited resources… that would be like saying that they are removing traits you use in the new system and you want them to let you keep your old traits because you already have them… it’s not possible…

also everyone is talking about what they lose, how about what you get? there will be more things to unlock than it is now, so you can’t get everything just because you have unlocked skills and traits now… and making it different for existing character would just broke the system, things will be unlocked in a specific order now, you can’t unlock a skill without unlocking everything previous in that line…

btw do you know that people who created characters before some patch had to do skill challenges or lvl up to unlock skills? there were no skill scrolls or lvl up tomes… people who did PvP before some patch didn’t get any rewards usefull outside of PvP… people who did world completion before some patch got only 1 gift of exploration instead of 2… none of these got any compensation, so wont you, get over it…

You can go to the other thread to read the tea leaves. How about keeping this one clean?

Daddar.5971:

Simple questions:

1) If a player has level 80 characters that have all skills unlocked without doing any PvE skill points, will those characters need to obtain PvE skill points (65 or some other number) to reclaim the core traits which they had already legitimately earned?

2) If so, why?

I’m posting this because I’m tired of the trolls in other threads and hoping for an official answer.

they are most likely not 100% commited to anything yet, but i wouldnt get my hopes up.

The core traits are still the core traits. There is no reason they have to create a system where some characters who have already earned them will lose them, while others, with far fewer hours in-game, can come out ahead. Tying character progression to ‘skill points’ is an arbitrary decision. The could have made it jumping puzzles, keg brawl wins, personal story progression, crafting level, world bosses killed or achievement points earned. None of those are good ideas, either.

How’s this for a proposal:

1) Each existing lv. 80 character gets trait unlocks based on hours played on that character, regardless of game mode, up to a cap of all base-traits unlocked.

2) All traits beyond base (i.e. elite specializations) are only unlocked via skill points earned in HoT zones.

That puts everyone who has put a lot of time into different game modes on an equal footing. It respects A-net’s stated ‘play the way you want’ philosophy and the spirit of fairness. Sure, someone who’s stood around in Lion’s Arch for hours gets credit for it, but the rest of us have gotten loot from actually playing, so that’s our reward. Any toon leveled with tomes and scrolls will lose out a little, but since no time was spent playing the character it’s not really unfair.

Daddar.5971:

1) Each existing lv. 80 character gets trait unlocks based on hours played on that character, regardless of game mode, up to a cap of all base-traits unlocked.

If it comes to that, you might as well give them to all level 80s. You are only punishing altaholics and new players who’ll have to leave their characters logged in in an instanced map over night to farm hours.

Daddar.5971:

2) All traits beyond base (i.e. elite specializations) are only unlocked via skill points earned in HoT zones.

so if we will get new content like 10x, we will have 11 different currencies to unlock specs and skills? not very good design…

There’s no reason it can’t be a 1-time grandfathering method. It doesn’t have to be ongoing, and they can implement it without announcing it ahead of time. Even so, I’d be fine with them giving it to all level 80s. If the only thing a player has done is hang around logged in to an instance, what will they have gained? As for altaholics (like me), we’ve paid for the slots and done the work to level characters and unlock traits, so what’s your point?

MaXi.3642:

Daddar.5971:

2) All traits beyond base (i.e. elite specializations) are only unlocked via skill points earned in HoT zones.

so if we will get new content like 10x, we will have 11 different currencies to unlock specs and skills? not very good design…

Currencies? When was the unlocking of traits ever linked to currencies (other than gold, which is a mistake)?

well, they were unlocked by level, now level will give hero points and hero points will unlock traits, so it’s very similar when you look at level as a limited resource/currency…

but I don’t know how exactly will it work, what exactly is unlocked by 1 hero point into a specialization, if there are any level restrictions etc, I think things like these weren’t in their blog post…

As a hypothetical, lets imagine 6 different players, each with 2 characters at lv. 80 with all currently available traits and skills unlocked. One character has full world completion, while the other is an alt. Each has made their alt, also with everything unlocked (by whatever legitimate method) in order to play almost exclusively in one type of content:

Player A loves PvE, and has full map completion on the alt
Player B loves Dungeons, and has completed every path in every dungeon many times
Player C loves jumping puzzles and fractals and has completed all
Player D loves sPvP, and is very highly ranked
Player E loves WvW, and is a commander with a high WvW rank
Player F used tomes and scrolls to get to lv 80 very recently, and has done nothing else but ‘skill challenges’

All of these players want to branch out into other content with their alts. Players A and F will get a huge boost due to the ‘skill challenges’ (ROFL) they have completed, while the rest are greatly disadvantaged and will have to re-earn traits they had legitimately acquired. Player F in particular deserves to be disadvantaged, having invested very little. How is this system fair, or in any way desirable?

Four hundred Hero Points, according to the Devs, will unlock quite a bit.

‘A level 80 character that’s done none of the hero challenges should be able to unlock more than enough skills, specializations, and traits to make several unique full builds.’

I’m not sure how much will be unavailable for those last 65 Hero Points. That’s about a 7th? of the total needed. So, a WvW-centric character can unlock 6/7th of all possible builds?

As it now stands, I can try out any build I want on any of my 14 level 80 characters because I have done the necessary things to unlock all traits and skills. If I lose traits and skills I have already unlocked simply because I chose not to do boring ‘skill challenges’ 14 times over I will be unhappy. I want to be able to change builds whenever I feel like it to suit whatever content I feel like playing.

Daddar.5971:

Player A loves PvE, and has full map completion on the alt
Player B loves Dungeons, and has completed every path in every dungeon many times
Player C loves jumping puzzles and fractals and has completed all
Player D loves sPvP, and is very highly ranked
Player E loves WvW, and is a commander with a high WvW rank
Player F used tomes and scrolls to get to lv 80 very recently, and has done nothing else but ‘skill challenges’

Ummm, the way I see it.

Player A: Will have everything

Player B: Should have enough, they still had to run to the zone with the dungeons, you’re telling me that they ignored every other thing to do in every map and just ran straight to the dungeon WP?

Player C: Again, Should have enough, how hard is it to spend 2-3 sec on your way to a jp.

Player Won’t need any hero points inside of PvP because everything will be unlocked there. If they want to start doing WvW or PvE then they are at the same disadvantage of a new player to either game mode, except the experience behind the class.

Player E: The only one who’s really “hurt”. And must spend a whole hour or two to go and earn back “everything”. Or, they could look at their favorite builds (I assume one commanding, one roaming, and maybe one solo), see what skills they don’t use; because they will not use all of them, ignore those skills/traits and get everything else and move on.

Player F: Is a player spending the time now so they don’t need to do it when the trait changes launches, which every player who has read about the change can go do.

Again, really it just “hurts” WvW players who now need to go play an hour or two of PvE. My guard, who I leveled almost completely in EotM and with about 30 tomes (and the insta lvl 20 scroll) with only 7% world completion still has 14/189 skill points. If I actually cared about player her I could go do more skill points, again, very quickly.

Daddar.5971:

Player A loves PvE, and has full map completion on the alt
Player B loves Dungeons, and has completed every path in every dungeon many times
Player C loves jumping puzzles and fractals and has completed all
Player D loves sPvP, and is very highly ranked
Player E loves WvW, and is a commander with a high WvW rank
Player F used tomes and scrolls to get to lv 80 very recently, and has done nothing else but ‘skill challenges’

player A is ok

player B can start dungeon runs from level 30, that means he had to play quite a lot in normal zones before running dungeons, by level 30 he probably completed at least 2 full zones, maybe 3, that should be maybe 15-20 skill challenges because leveling up to level 30 without utility skills and elite skill sucks, so he have already done 1/3 of additional work needed to unlock everything, he most likely even wont need to unlock the rest as he wont use it in dungeons

player C is very similar to player B, JPs are all across the world and fractals are from level 80, so he most likely done even more skill challenges just by leveling and randomly meeting them while doing story quests, because as we all know, story quests give quite a lot of XP and are mandatory for fast leveling if you don’t count tomes

player D is ok, because he will have everything already unlocked in his beloved mode

player E have small amount of skill points in WvW maps, so he maybe done like 10 skill challenges, also he could level a bit before starting to play WvW and meet some other skill challenges, because a level 2 player without utility skills is useless in WvW, but it’s a personal preference

player F is ok because he got skill points the standard way, also those skill challenges took quite some time, because if he got them all, he also traveled across whole world and now can easily finish world completion thanks to waypoints, he did more work than it seems

so I’m not sure what’s the problem… yes it’s not completely fair, but when you want to create something new what is supposed to work and be there as a base system for future additions, you have to do it right even at the cost that it is a bit unfair… and to be honest, this isn’t so much unfair, just a little, you can gain remaining skill challenges in one day if you really have to have unlocked everything even when you don’t use it

The only ones affected by this are the WvW crowd. And you have to make it clear whether you are against losing already unlocked progress, having to do any amount of PvE, or both.

The first is a reasonable request for those that have already unlocked skills and traits.

The second is another deal entirely. None of us have any elite spec progress, it’s new content, so we’re all starting at square 1. Do you object to skill challenges being the only way through which elite specs are unlocked? There’s merit in discussing this, but if you focus on this aspect of the argument, don’t pretend like Anet is treating you unfairly.

My problem is with the loss of already-earned progress. Any requirements for unlocking new progression should apply to all equally, and A-net can and should determine those requirements. I do not want special treatment for any player, regardless of how they got their character to the fully-unlocked state. I’d also prefer that no one be able come into WvW with all elite skills already unlocked through PvE, while WvW players need to spend many hours in PvE for the same privilege.

Daddar.5971:

My problem is with the loss of already-earned progress. Any requirements for unlocking new progression should apply to all equally, and A-net can and should determine those requirements. I do not want special treatment for any player, regardless of how they got their character to the fully-unlocked state. I’d also prefer that no one be able come into WvW with all elite skills already unlocked through PvE, while WvW players need to spend many hours in PvE for the same privilege.

Why is that suddenly such an issue when it have basically been more or less the same since release.

Someone that have played PvE can come into WvW with full exotic/ascended gear while those that only play WvW would spend insane amount of time in WvW or do PvE in order to unlock it.

I can’t see why anyone would support having their progress rolled back. I’ve got characters with everything unlocked (both skills and traits) that I’ve had since launch. why would i be happy to lose all my progress?

Daddar.5971:

My problem is with the loss of already-earned progress. Any requirements for unlocking new progression should apply to all equally, and A-net can and should determine those requirements. I do not want special treatment for any player, regardless of how they got their character to the fully-unlocked state. I’d also prefer that no one be able come into WvW with all elite skills already unlocked through PvE, while WvW players need to spend many hours in PvE for the same privilege.

PvE is how one is best able to craft and get gear in the first place though. The only thing that could make people “[not] be able to come into WvW with all elite skills already unlocked” would be to implement a system for WvW that is similar to sPvP. I personally don’t have any issues with it, but many people do. Arguably, WvW is about grinding gear and gold to get the absolute best armor, weapons, and runes/sigils because you’re going up against other players. This exists to a lesser extent in PvE (except Fractals) and it is nonexistent in sPvP.

lordkrall.7241:

Why is that suddenly such an issue when it have basically been more or less the same since release.

Someone that have played PvE can come into WvW with full exotic/ascended gear while those that only play WvW would spend insane amount of time in WvW or do PvE in order to unlock it.

Not true for me at all. I have had no problem gearing all 14 of my level 80’s in full exotic/ascended, while spending minimal (though not zero) time in PvE. I have full map completion on only 1 character for a reason. PvE bores me to tears, and I’ve “been there, done that”. Why is it that people seem to think WvW players need to keep justifying their preference?

One could point out that technically we have not progressed at all in the new system.
We have progressed in the old system, which is getting removed with the coming patch and then replaced with a new system, which we now how to progress through.

The old progress is “lost” simply because the old system is being scrapped.

Daddar.5971:

Not true for me at all. I have had no problem gearing all 14 of my level 80’s in full exotic/ascended, while spending minimal (though not zero) time in PvE. I have full map completion on only 1 character for a reason. PvE bores me to tears, and I’ve “been there, done that”. Why is it that people seem to think WvW players need to keep justifying their preference?

But you would still have to spend much more time in WvW in order to get to the same level of gear as PvE. Ergo a PvE-player is having a rather large advantage over a WvW-only player.

It is also worth pointing out that I am mainly WvW:ing myself.

And this is yet another reason not to give a further advantage to PvE players who have racked up silly ‘skill challenges’ to ‘earn’ the advantage.

How often do you use every single trait you have in WvW?

That isn’t the point. How often do you wear every single piece of clothing you own? The point is, I’ve earned the ability to try any trait/skill combo I want to on 14 different lv. 80 toons (with character slots paid for by spending actual money, I should add) at any time. On a given day, I might want to spice my usual WvW up with a fractal or dungeon, and I can retool for that as I see fit.

Again (and again, and again) why do I need to keep justifying my desire to keep what I’ve already earned, while PvE-only players will likely have more unlocked under the new system than they have now by virtue of having done 465 ‘skill points’?

Sytherek.7689:

If ANet is wise, they will answer you and say WvW gives complete unlocks.

This has no back up WvW is meant to be the opposite if you make a new character unlike PvP, if you’re already 80 and unlocked everything I see no need or benefit to make us restart.

Daddar.5971:

And this is yet another reason not to give a further advantage to PvE players who have racked up silly ‘skill challenges’ to ‘earn’ the advantage.

sorry man, your thinking is incorrect.
Skill challenges are not supposed to be hard, they are a basic test for your charachter.
in a sport they would be like learning to dribble a basketball or pitch a baseball. The content you want to do is designed for upper level charachters. Why encourage people to go into this content kitten?

The devs messed up by allowing too much charachter progression to be done without actually playing a charachter. They also messed up by inflating charchter progression currency to the point that it was worthless, which lead them to needing insane skill point sinks for new skill progression

Skill point challenges are boot camp for your charachter, it represents a minimum progression that everyone has to do on their charachters. Every doctor has to go to college.

Now you are an old school doctor, who existed before they had these requirements, Your argument is you have been practicing medicine for years, before they even needed college.

That may be valid, but it doesnt mean that requiring college going forward is a flawed system.

As far as grandfathering fully unlocked charachters, they may have a plan for you, or they may not, but focus your feedback on wanting to be grandfathered, instead of mocking the concept of skill challenges. Its a fair concept.

As it pertains to grandfathering;

• whatever techniques they use should be short term, and only effect the current situation.
  • the last grandfathering was really bad, in that people with level 1 charachters, basically cheated the second system, which was designed with skill points being easy to aquire in mind. while a new charachter created in it needed to do specific content or gain 360 skill points, a grandfathered level 1 charachter had to do like 1/5th the work.
• the total available needs to be limited, without creating situations where you dont get credit for doing something
• the total available should also be limited so that new progression doesnt become even more onerous based on an excess build up
• the system should be able to grow with expansions.

If Skill Challenges are that easy, it should take no time to complete them, and receive the missing 1/7th of the Hero Points.

Just as PvE players had to enjoy some WvW for World Completion in the past, it now seems WvW players may have to spend an hour or two enjoying some PvE. I would guess there are about half the needed Skill Challenges in the starter zones alone.

Or, maybe, once everything is revealed, there will be another way for players to acquire the fraction of needed Hero Points. Time will tell!

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If Skill Challenges are that easy, it should take no time to complete them, and receive the missing 1/7th of the Hero Points.

Just as PvE players had to enjoy some WvW for World Completion in the past, it now seems WvW players may have to spend an hour or two enjoying some PvE. I would guess there are about half the needed Skill Challenges in the starter zones alone.

Or, maybe, once everything is revealed, there will be another way for players to acquire the fraction of needed Hero Points. Time will tell!

Easy doesn’t mean quick. It’s easy to complete them, but it takes forever because of the fact that they’re all at least a minute (If you already have their locations on your map and head straight for them) or more (Finding the map transition + Finding the skill point) apart. If they were challenging, they might actually be fun, but in their current state, it’s just a waste of time.

World completion isn’t anywhere near comparable. Not having a legendary doesn’t change how you play. Not having skills that might be useful in an encounter, does. You can still solve problems the same with with a legendary as you would with the multiple ascended items that you can craft with the same gold it would to make one. Besides, WvW players have always had to, and still do have to complete a ton of PvE map completion in order to get that, but no one complains, because a legendary doesn’t change the way that you play.

If there are other ways to earn hero points, Arena.net is welcome to tell us what these are, and if they solve the problem, then it’ll be fine. But they’ll most likely take silence as satisfaction with it as it is and assume that we’re happy with it. We’ll stop bringing up the problem once they announce that they’re planning to solve it.

ok im a wvw only player and no i dont wanna have to bash for 5 hours plus on boring meeaningless pve mobs to get my skills. i want to either have the option to unlock them with my 8k badges which i have obtained since realease of gw2 or have all the skills and traits already unlocked in wvw.
i havent even gotten my ascended armor yet as i hate having to chop wood or try to grind enough gold to buy stuff for crafting.

i mean anet always favors pve players even made a wvw map for pve players called eotm which is horrible and a boring ktrain for a wvw player. but at least let the wvw players unlock the traits and skills with badges or something like that.

When we switch to masteries I really hope they are clear as to what will happen to everyone’s accounts for at least 2 weeks. I’m sure they haven’t worked everything out quite yet but when they do they should get it out there. This change will no doubt disrupt some players and giving them a little time will smooth things out.

Ps I really like the unlock with badges idea.

selan.8354:

but at least let the wvw players unlock the traits and skills with badges or something like that.

But that isn’t how they said it is going to work. Skills and traits are coming from a finite resource, hero points. Badges are infinite, also account bound so you then could get your lvl 2 character to unlock everything. Also, many non-WvW players have plenty of badges thanks to Achievement Point rewards, so your idea just serves as a short cut/exploit around their intended system.

Plus, sorry to burst your bubble, but they have also mentioned that to learn of the new elite specs you’ll have to go into the new maps (ie PvE). I don’t know if that’s true/will stay that way (as it invalidates all of the extra HP’s in the core world), but it is what they said.

Plus a lot of you are forgetting how the game was at launch. You didn’t have a mass of tomes flowing in from PvP (or through achievement points), so you could only level in PvE or through a train in WvW if you were lucky (since no EotM). And there were no champ bags or skill point scrolls, so if you wanted to learn all of your skills you had to level up again via exp past 80.

All of the things since then (tomes, skill point scrolls, writs, etc.) have just been shortcuts for the base system of having to “level up” past 80 to learn all your skills. All they are doing is replacing that core system with a new one.

Honestly, so many of you are acting like this is some huge betrayal, when it’s just a change that you can adapt to in about 1-2 hours of “work”. Of which, they’ve given you a month’s notice now, and it’s still a ways away. If you want to unlock everything again (which has been stated multiple times that it isn’t needed, and no one has yet to give a good reason why other than “because I want it without any effort”) just do the bit of leg work. Otherwise, learn to live without a set of utilities that you most likely don’t even use.

selan.8354:

i mean anet always favors pve players even made a wvw map for pve players called eotm which is horrible and a boring ktrain for a wvw player. but at least let the wvw players unlock the traits and skills with badges or something like that.

And how is that more fair?

I don’t know any PvE players that exclusively play to unlock skill challenges. They do fractal runs, dungeons, world bosses, and all of them will have to do something else, ie skill challenges, to get hero points.

So, there are 13 skill challenges in WvW. If they reward 5 hero points each, or if they add 52 more to get the 65 you need, will you stop complaining? They would be part of WvW, then.

RabbitUp.8294:

selan.8354:

i mean anet always favors pve players even made a wvw map for pve players called eotm which is horrible and a boring ktrain for a wvw player. but at least let the wvw players unlock the traits and skills with badges or something like that.

And how is that more fair?

I don’t know any PvE players that exclusively play to unlock skill challenges. They do fractal runs, dungeons, world bosses, and all of them will have to do something else, ie skill challenges, to get hero points.

So, there are 13 skill challenges in WvW. If they reward 5 hero points each, or if they add 52 more to get the 65 you need, will you stop complaining? They would be part of WvW, then.

actually no i want to be able to unlock all my skills through wvw not pve maps where i have to farm some boring mobs for each class i wanna play in wvw. i want to be able to unlock all my skills for wvw without being forced to play boring pve! i think pve is very boring and i tried it. i ran a few fractals ran a few dungeons but i havent even gotten my ascended armor cause fariming for mats is even more boring! let me just buy the skills ill even pay gems.
just no pve!! ill have to play pve for days to get all my skills for each class… i log into gw2 for good fights good zergbusts good organized wvw raids with my guilds. i dont care about anything else.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

selan.8354:

but at least let the wvw players unlock the traits and skills with badges or something like that.

But that isn’t how they said it is going to work. Skills and traits are coming from a finite resource, hero points. Badges are infinite, also account bound so you then could get your lvl 2 character to unlock everything. Also, many non-WvW players have plenty of badges thanks to Achievement Point rewards, so your idea just serves as a short cut/exploit around their intended system.

Plus, sorry to burst your bubble, but they have also mentioned that to learn of the new elite specs you’ll have to go into the new maps (ie PvE). I don’t know if that’s true/will stay that way (as it invalidates all of the extra HP’s in the core world), but it is what they said.

Plus a lot of you are forgetting how the game was at launch. You didn’t have a mass of tomes flowing in from PvP (or through achievement points), so you could only level in PvE or through a train in WvW if you were lucky (since no EotM). And there were no champ bags or skill point scrolls, so if you wanted to learn all of your skills you had to level up again via exp past 80.

All of the things since then (tomes, skill point scrolls, writs, etc.) have just been shortcuts for the base system of having to “level up” past 80 to learn all your skills. All they are doing is replacing that core system with a new one.

Honestly, so many of you are acting like this is some huge betrayal, when it’s just a change that you can adapt to in about 1-2 hours of “work”. Of which, they’ve given you a month’s notice now, and it’s still a ways away. If you want to unlock everything again (which has been stated multiple times that it isn’t needed, and no one has yet to give a good reason why other than “because I want it without any effort”) just do the bit of leg work. Otherwise, learn to live without a set of utilities that you most likely don’t even use.

yes i did play gw2 from the very beginning with early access and yes i did my pve. but as a veteran player i dont want to have to go through all that boring kill 5 spiders go kill 15 chickens and collect the eggs because i said so…. or wait for 20 minutes or 2 hours till a dragon spawns. i did all that already. im level 80 on all my character and i want to be able to unlock all my skills when i log in. without pve! ill buy it ill pay all the gold i have even gems just to avoid the pve trains.

I’ll just say that if PvE players had to go into WvW and clear every sentry point (or capture every camp, or every tower, or every keep, or SMC 65 times) we’d hear a lot of whining. I’m sure you’d be able to do it, but you’d resent the requirement.

I’ve done my map completion on 1 character. My other 13 lv. 80’s have decreasing amounts of world completion, because there’s no way I’m doing that 13 more times. Many of my characters have never been on the majority of PvE maps, just as many PvE players haven’t been inside every structure in WvW. Please stop implying that PvE is ‘the important part’ of the game. It’s one part. Even as it is now, PvE already dispenses much more karma, gold, loot and mats per hour of play. Why should PvE also be the sole source of trait unlocks?

Daddar.5971:

I’ll just say that if PvE players had to go into WvW and clear every sentry point (or capture every camp, or every tower, or every keep, or SMC 65 times) we’d hear a lot of whining. I’m sure you’d be able to do it, but you’d resent the requirement.

You mean a bit like having to do WvW for world completion?

lordkrall.7241:

Daddar.5971:

I’ll just say that if PvE players had to go into WvW and clear every sentry point (or capture every camp, or every tower, or every keep, or SMC 65 times) we’d hear a lot of whining. I’m sure you’d be able to do it, but you’d resent the requirement.

You mean a bit like having to do WvW for world completion?

They’re pretty comparable. As a generally PvE player, I’m hoping they can come up with a fitting way to acquire the necessary Hero Points in WvW. It seems like the current availability of skill points won’t be enough.

The premise of WvW, was to take your PVE progression, and use that characher you built in order to play in these large pvp maps.

Are you guys saying that this is no good? do you want an spvp system in place for wvw? The real reason you cant get full progress in WvW is simple, its small, and doesnt have much content. If they wanted to have more skill challenges there it wouldnt really be balanced in terms of effort.

Do you guys actually want wvw to represent the work and efforts of a tailor made charachter?
skill challenges are basically a low level, basic charachter building excerise. What you are really saying, by saying you should be able to skip it, is that wvw should not be about charachter building.

import all spvp stats/rulesets/amulets for wvw?

and what about people who like progression based pvp? taking the charachters they built up in pve and fighting other players who built their charachters? wvw was built for them, but you guys are implying thats not what WvW should be. Where should they go?

Softspoken.2410:

lordkrall.7241:

Daddar.5971:

I’ll just say that if PvE players had to go into WvW and clear every sentry point (or capture every camp, or every tower, or every keep, or SMC 65 times) we’d hear a lot of whining. I’m sure you’d be able to do it, but you’d resent the requirement.

You mean a bit like having to do WvW for world completion?

They’re pretty comparable. As a generally PvE player, I’m hoping they can come up with a fitting way to acquire the necessary Hero Points in WvW. It seems like the current availability of skill points won’t be enough.

wvw was never meant to be a stand alone experience, it was concieved within the framework of pve. Its where your charachter you built, leveled and created fought other peoples progress based charchters.

Are you saying this was a bad idea?

I’m not sure which statement by A-net you are referring to regarding their reason for creating WvW. Please direct us to the official source of your many statements about A-net’s design intentions. Clearly, they meant for a character to be able to level up and reach full-unlocks in standalone WvW, because that’s exactly what I’ve done within the system they created. I’m just asking to keep the progress I’ve made.

lordkrall.7241

You mean a bit like having to do WvW for world completion?

Not at all. The only reason for world completion is to gain the ability to craft a legendary weapon. One item. Not better than an ascended weapon, just with a ‘cooler skin’. If any of your actual traits and skills for your character had been locked behind WvW objectives I’d have sympathy for your point.

An option is to have the skill points in WvW grant multiple hero points, enough that all or nearly all of them will give the 65 points (minus elite specs) you’d be short.

WvW’s removal from map completion I feel has more to do with introducing the new borderland (where the current PoI’s/Vistas/etc won’t be valid) than the dispute between WvW-only and PvE-only players.

Daddar.5971:

I’m not sure which statement by A-net you are referring to regarding their reason for creating WvW. Please direct us to the official source of your many statements about A-net’s design intentions. Clearly, they meant for a character to be able to level up and reach full-unlocks in standalone WvW, because that’s exactly what I’ve done within the system they created. I’m just asking to keep the progress I’ve made.

im not talking about grandfathering, im talking about design intent.
And they designed WvW with 15 skill challenges versus 189. They had no skill point scrolls, or skill tomes.
They required WvW for map completion, and they connected WvW with PVE progression based systems.
In every single way, it is clear that wvw was seen as an extension of the general world, rather than a seperate entity. It was basically designed as being 2 extra maps(3 clones), designed to have pvp take place in.

yeah you can level 1-80 in wvw, the same as you could level 1-80 in queensdale. But thats not designed to be how you progress, though it is possible.