WvW Players and Traits in HoT
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actually no i want to be able to unlock all my skills through wvw not pve maps where i have to farm some boring mobs for each class i wanna play in wvw. i want to be able to unlock all my skills for wvw without being forced to play boring pve! i think pve is very boring and i tried it. i ran a few fractals ran a few dungeons but i havent even gotten my ascended armor cause fariming for mats is even more boring! let me just buy the skills ill even pay gems.
just no pve!! ill have to play pve for days to get all my skills for each class… i log into gw2 for good fights good zergbusts good organized wvw raids with my guilds. i dont care about anything else.
I don’t log in to do skill challenges, either. Nobody does.
Like I said, there are 13 skill challenges in WvW maps. You can do those. Ask anet to have those reward with 5 hero points each. Or to add more skill challenges to WvW maps.
It’s not fair if you get hero points for playing your preferred mode. PvE doesn’t get hero points for doing dungeons or fractals.
It’s not fair if you get hero points for playing your preferred mode. PvE doesn’t get hero points for doing dungeons or fractals.
Could we be more constructive about this, like, say, arguing that they should as well.
It’s not fair if you get hero points for playing your preferred mode. PvE doesn’t get hero points for doing dungeons or fractals.
Could we be more constructive about this, like, say, arguing that they should as well.
is it good for the game as a whole, if there is no incentive for doing different facets of the game?
is it good for the game as a whole, if there is no incentive for doing different facets of the game?
Exactly the point! Skill progression should be possible in every valid game mode. Your character should be able to unlock basic traits and skills via fractals, dungeons, WvW, etc.
Under the new system all traits and skills (beyond the ones granted by leveling) are locked behind PvE content. The only people who can stay in just 1 game mode and unlock everything are open-world PvE players.
‘Elite’ in all 9 professions. I take mediocrity seriously!
It’s not fair if you get hero points for playing your preferred mode. PvE doesn’t get hero points for doing dungeons or fractals.
Could we be more constructive about this, like, say, arguing that they should as well.
is it good for the game as a whole, if there is no incentive for doing different facets of the game?
Very much so. It encourages the developers to make content that people want to play because it’s fun to play, rather than because they have to to get the most out of the parts of the game that they do.
If people wont play something without having a carrot dangled in front of them, it’s probably because they don’t enjoy it. If they don’t enjoy it, it fails as recreation, and forcing them to do so is just going to make them hate the game.
There is some merit to minor incentives to try something the first time, as they might simply have never given it a try, but I don’t think that applies here. If they had stated that hero challenges would be unlocked for every character on an account after being acquired once I’d understand it under that logic, but given that they’re something that need to be repeated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, that kind of falls apart. After the first time, doing them a second or third time isn’t going to make you come to revelation that you love skill challenges.
(edited by Eponet.4829)
is it good for the game as a whole, if there is no incentive for doing different facets of the game?
Exactly the point! Skill progression should be possible in every valid game mode. Your character should be able to unlock basic traits and skills via fractals, dungeons, WvW, etc.
Under the new system all traits and skills (beyond the ones granted by leveling) are locked behind PvE content. The only people who can stay in just 1 game mode and unlock everything are open-world PvE players.
From anets standpoint, wvw and pve are the same world. WvW is another map in the world. They may change this concept, but thats the concept they started off with. You have the same things in a wvw map that you have on any other map, vistas, waypoints, dynamic events, enemies, nodes, skill points, POIs, teleports.
and there are somethings you can only get in WvW.
(edited by phys.7689)
It’s not fair if you get hero points for playing your preferred mode. PvE doesn’t get hero points for doing dungeons or fractals.
Could we be more constructive about this, like, say, arguing that they should as well.
is it good for the game as a whole, if there is no incentive for doing different facets of the game?
Very much so. It encourages the developers to make content that people want to play because it’s fun to play, rather than because they have to to get the most out of the parts of the game that they do.
If people wont play something without having a carrot dangled in front of them, it’s probably because they don’t enjoy it. If they don’t enjoy it, it fails as recreation, and forcing them to do so is just going to make them hate the game.
There is some merit to minor incentives to try something the first time, as they might simply have never given it a try, but I don’t think that applies here. If they had stated that hero challenges would be unlocked for every character on an account after being acquired once I’d understand it under that logic, but given that they’re something that need to be repeated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, that kind of falls apart. After the first time, doing them a second or third time isn’t going to make you come to revelation that you love skill challenges.
I disagree, some things should be rewarded for specific types of gameplay. Somethings should also be tied to specific charachters progress.
By offering all incentives in one small facet, you decrease the value of the game as a whole. Some things should be in specific places, the game needs to make doing content feel valuable. Many people primarily value charachter progression, over money, cosmetics, etc.
Some poster said skill points are a waste of their time, because they dont give rewards, and thats exactly the point, due to the game giving out too many skillpoints for doing anything without any actual specific method, they look at skill points as not being a valuable item to pursue, and that was never the intention.
exploration, killing a monster, exploring a cave, in an MMO much of its value is decided by what types of progress you get for doing it. They need to have skill points feel like something worth doing/obtaining. Thats part of why they did the redesign. If the game was designed differently, with special drops from certain enemies, or special resources, they could use those as incentives, but its not, and getting skills is, for me, one of the most valuable things to do in the game.
Now, i might alter the implementation, but the idea of having go adventuring in order to get your skills is far from a bad one imo.
And its something you shouldnt be able to circumvent because you played another proffesion a lot.
Just look at the daily achievements. They can be earned equally in 3 categories: PvP, PvE and WvW. This strongly implies that these are the three co-equal branches of GW2 gameplay. Of course, it is natural for PvE players to think that their preferred mode is ‘the one that matters’ or the ‘one that the others are based on’. That doesn’t mean that they are correct.
‘Elite’ in all 9 professions. I take mediocrity seriously!
Just look at the daily achievements. They can be earned equally in 3 categories: PvP, PvE and WvW. This strongly implies that these are the three co-equal branches of GW2 gameplay. Of course, it is natural for PvE players to think that their preferred mode is ‘the one that matters’ or the ‘one that the others are based on’. That doesn’t mean that they are correct.
daily achievements have changed multiple times, and will likely continue to change.
Really its not about a prefered mode, or one that matters. The devs, in the past have considered wvw and pve to be part of one whole. They felt no qualms making you go to WvW for certain things, and pve for others (the current trait system for example)
The focus of the new design as far as they have told us is focused on skill challenges as the defacto skill earning mechanic outside of leveling,
if they feel like WvW should have its own system, they probably have already designed it into the system.
Just look at the daily achievements. They can be earned equally in 3 categories: PvP, PvE and WvW. This strongly implies that these are the three co-equal branches of GW2 gameplay. Of course, it is natural for PvE players to think that their preferred mode is ‘the one that matters’ or the ‘one that the others are based on’. That doesn’t mean that they are correct.
daily achievements have changed multiple times, and will likely continue to change.
Really its not about a prefered mode, or one that matters. The devs, in the past have considered wvw and pve to be part of one whole. They felt no qualms making you go to WvW for certain things, and pve for others (the current trait system for example)
The focus of the new design as far as they have told us is focused on skill challenges as the defacto skill earning mechanic outside of leveling,
if they feel like WvW should have its own system, they probably have already designed it into the system.
The only things that you had to go to WvW for were either cosmetic (Gifts of exploration), thus, didn’t change the way you played at all, or were exclusive to WvWvW games, and could be earned doing just about anything in WvWvW (WvWvW abilities)
Anything you could get that might give you an advantage in WvWvW either came from playing WvWvW (WvWvW XP came from just about every activity in it), or could be earned by playing it (Gold and Karma, both of which are acquired from it can purchase the needed ingredients for ascended gear, skill points and gold can be used to acquire traits)
The proposed system is the only thing in the game’s history that actually locks a mechanical aspect of your character behind a specific form of content, and to make it worse, it’s the second most boring content in the entire game (The first being full world completion)
It is a betrayal, as it’s the first time that they’ll actually permanently disadvantage you if you don’t choose to play the way they want you to. The complete opposite of what we were told when they marketed the game to us. If I was after an MMO that forced me to grind things that I don’t enjoy over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, there are other games that do that.
The lack of grinding and the ability to play what you enjoy is one of the many aspects that has seperated Guild Wars 2 from its competitors. Becoming a worse version of WoW or Tera is not a direction that they should head in.
(edited by Eponet.4829)
I’d agree more with the notion that PvE and WvW were considered a combined entity if they didn’t have different communities, styles of gameplay, daily categories, subforums, and if WvW didn’t take pains to let you start and progress a character to 80 and still be relevant while doing so. I mean, WvW even has its own experience tracks and levelling that represent progression in that specific mode.
Getting the points from PvE wouldn’t be the most arduous chore, admittedly. It isn’t too difficult to gather about 50 skill points in PvE for 100% unlocks. (Based on current hearsay). Really I think it would be appropriate for WvW to be capable of providing those hero points itself, possibly through something as simple as increasing the amount of skill challenges in the maps, or for taking part in something big like capturing Stonemist Castle.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
I’d agree more with the notion that PvE and WvW were considered a combined entity if they didn’t have different communities, styles of gameplay, daily categories, subforums, and if WvW didn’t take pains to let you start and progress a character to 80 and still be relevant while doing so. I mean, WvW even has its own experience tracks and levelling that represent progression in that specific mode.
Getting the points from PvE wouldn’t be the most arduous chore, admittedly. It isn’t too difficult to gather about 50 skill points in PvE for 100% unlocks. (Based on current hearsay). Really I think it would be appropriate for WvW to be capable of providing those hero points itself, possibly through something as simple as increasing the amount of skill challenges in the maps, or for taking part in something big like capturing Stonemist Castle.
uhh, everything has different communities, are fractals and dungeons a sperate entity now? What about TP economy? Living story?
like i said, perhaps they now want it to be a seperate entity, but that was not the intent before.
they have the same rule set, gear from one goes to the other. You can even use a bunch of consumables you can only get from karma vendors
being able to level 1-80 in wvw isnt that crazy a feat, you can level 1-80 in queensdale , or level 1-80 in fractals.
anyhow, perhaps they should fully seperate it, and have different unlocks in each mode, however i think most people like the idea of having them be part of the same mode.
uhh, everything has different communities, are fractals and dungeons a sperate entity now? What about TP economy? Living story?
Yes
Yes, but it doesn’t use mechanics at all
Yes
I’d agree more with the notion that PvE and WvW were considered a combined entity if they didn’t have different communities, styles of gameplay, daily categories, subforums, and if WvW didn’t take pains to let you start and progress a character to 80 and still be relevant while doing so. I mean, WvW even has its own experience tracks and levelling that represent progression in that specific mode.
Getting the points from PvE wouldn’t be the most arduous chore, admittedly. It isn’t too difficult to gather about 50 skill points in PvE for 100% unlocks. (Based on current hearsay). Really I think it would be appropriate for WvW to be capable of providing those hero points itself, possibly through something as simple as increasing the amount of skill challenges in the maps, or for taking part in something big like capturing Stonemist Castle.
uhh, everything has different communities, are fractals and dungeons a sperate entity now? What about TP economy? Living story?
like i said, perhaps they now want it to be a seperate entity, but that was not the intent before.
they have the same rule set, gear from one goes to the other. You can even use a bunch of consumables you can only get from karma vendors
being able to level 1-80 in wvw isnt that crazy a feat, you can level 1-80 in queensdale , or level 1-80 in fractals.anyhow, perhaps they should fully seperate it, and have different unlocks in each mode, however i think most people like the idea of having them be part of the same mode.
I wouldn’t call the BLTP / economy a separate entity, since it runs almost entirely on materials generated by PvE & WvW. Also, it lost its subforum some time ago. Living Story is… Iffy. It generates very few skill points, and often requires you to go to high-level areas on foot, first. As well, it’s largely transient. Even though you can replay season 2, you either had to be around to unlock it, or get through a hefty gem wall to get to it now. Season 1 is mostly gone forever. It also uses the same gameplay tactics you’d find in dungeons or just in general PvE.
Honestly you could make a pretty good argument for Fractals being their own gameplay mode. Between the uplevelling and independent progression systems (agony resist, fractal scaling) it’s got the foundation. It’s mostly a question on if the gameplay is sufficiently distinct and expansive enough, and it very well might be.
As an aside, forcing yourself to level all the way to 80 in Queensdale alone sounds like a misery, and isn’t really well supported since you run out of renown hearts. But I’m betting you weren’t serious about that example.
Edit for this section:
WvW is absolutely a separate entity from PvE, and has been from the start. The maps do not connect with the larger PvE maps any more than sPvP does, and the goal of the game is very different from PvE. It’s not as much about exploration and satisfying quests in an area, it’s about conquering and keeping territory. Your opponents are different too: PvE’s NPC opponents are drastically different from the enemy players of WvW. And even WvW players are different to fight against than PvP, because of how rules like small local capture points and even teams no longer exist.
Edit over.
But really what we’re trying to get down to is: should WvW be able to fully develop a character in terms of Hero Points? I think it should, because I think WvW is big enough to supply that unobtrusively.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
As an aside, forcing yourself to level all the way to 80 in Queensdale alone sounds like a misery, and isn’t really well supported since you run out of renown hearts. But I’m betting you weren’t serious about that example.
Edit for this section:
WvW is absolutely a separate entity from PvE, and has been from the start. The maps do not connect with the larger PvE maps any more than sPvP does, and the goal of the game is very different from PvE. It’s not as much about exploration and satisfying quests in an area, it’s about conquering and keeping territory. Your opponents are different too: PvE’s NPC opponents are drastically different from the enemy players of WvW. And even WvW players are different to fight against than PvP, because of how rules like small local capture points and even teams no longer exist.
Edit over.But really what we’re trying to get down to is: should WvW be able to fully develop a character in terms of Hero Points? I think it should, because I think WvW is big enough to supply that unobtrusively.
there used to be a number of people who champ farmed queensdale till they were high enough for frostforge.
WvW was designed with exploration goals, like skill points, vistas, and poi’s. It has dynamic events, and npcs/jump puzzles.
I have actually gone in there and farmed enemies at some times. It really was designed to be a combination of pve and pvp. Problem is, the pve elements werent compelling enough to feel like it was really pve/pvp mix. People mostly ignored the pve design.
Anyhow, original design intents aside, the problem with WvW based hero points is multi faceted
basically WvW based aquisition while the modes are connected skill wise would ruin the things the new system is trying to accomplish.
1) simple system
2) easily expandable system
3) bring value to hero challenges
4) lower numbers for progression going forward
there are a couple of solutions that dont screw it up that much, aside from making it more complex/less intuitive, but they would probably have to have already been working on them for awhile, to be ready before hot ships.
Well, no one likes to have their progress stripped away to be replaced with pointless grinding to ‘earn’ it back. I can’t wait to commune with some more places of power and consume some more random foods and drinks. That’s something to get hyped about! I can hardly contain my quivering anticipation.
‘Elite’ in all 9 professions. I take mediocrity seriously!
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