Guild Wars 2

Will you force WvW players to do PvE content for the new class specialization?

Currently sitting on around 7 % world completion on all my characters, not very keen on the idea. Will there be an alternative like the current trait book merchants?

WvW has always been based on your PvE gear (which is good) but you have never been forced to actually do any PvE content. (which is also good)

Will it stay that way?

Map completion in WvW was recently removed from World Completion, to not force PvE players into WvW. Will you now force WvW players into PvE?

Considering your character in WvW shares your PvE gear, skills and level, I’d assume so.

I don’t know where you read anything that indicates that. They are removing all ties between sPvP and PvE, so I don’t see why they would reverse that for WvW.

WvW has always been based on your PvE gear (which is good) but you have never been forced to actually do any PvE content.

Wait… What’s going on? Specializations are tied to map completion?

Phosphia.7813:

Will you force WvW players to do PvE content for the new class specialization?

Currently sitting on around 7 % world completion on all my characters, not very keen on the idea. Will there be an alternative like the current trait book merchants?

Can you develop? You pitch a generic sentence, but can you point to a sentence or several sentence that indication something specific? How do you want us to respond if you give nothing specific.

Thaddeus.4891:

Phosphia.7813:

Will you force WvW players to do PvE content for the new class specialization?

Currently sitting on around 7 % world completion on all my characters, not very keen on the idea. Will there be an alternative like the current trait book merchants?

Can you develop? You pitch a generic sentence, but can you point to a sentence or several sentence that indication something specific? How do you want us to respond if you give nothing specific.

Have you read the new blog posts? There’s a lot of talk about stuff like hero challenges required to progress your class specs and Spvp being exempt from having to do this.

This implies that WvW players will be forced to do PvE content unless they provide an alternative like with the trait book merchants.

MeththeMadman.7420:

Wait… What’s going on? Specializations are tied to map completion?

you will need to do skill point challenges in order to unlock all traits.

wvw people will have to do skill challenges for all options

they did say leveling to 80 will give you a decent build, so probably at least 3 lines can be unlocked from just hitting 80

Phosphia.7813:

Have you read the new blog posts? There’s a lot of talk about stuff like hero challenges required to progress your class specs and Spvp being exempt from having to do this.

This implies that WvW players will be forced to do PvE content unless they provide an alternative like with the trait book merchants.

Why assume there won’t be hero challenges in WvW?

lordkrall.7241:

Phosphia.7813:

Have you read the new blog posts? There’s a lot of talk about stuff like hero challenges required to progress your class specs and Spvp being exempt from having to do this.

This implies that WvW players will be forced to do PvE content unless they provide an alternative like with the trait book merchants.

Why assume there won’t be hero challenges in WvW?

Because map completion is no longer a part of WvW. And I wouldn’t imagine all hero challanges to be inside WvW, wouldn’t make much sense.

Which is why I’m asking in this thread.

From the blog post:

“PvP players won’t have to worry about unlocking anything, as all skills and traits will be automatically unlocked upon entering the Heart of the Mists.”

So everyone just relax….

Phosphia.7813:

Because map completion is no longer a part of WvW. And I wouldn’t imagine all hero challanges to be inside WvW, wouldn’t make much sense.

Which is why I’m asking in this thread.

And yet there were still skill points in WvW last I checked.

Quoting myself from wvw subforum:

Link 1: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-one-a-primer/
Link 2: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-two-reward-tracks-and-elite-specializations/

A quote from 2:

…everything [skills/traits] will be unlocked by spending Hero Points on these new reward tracks.

Hero Points will be limited, and they’ll be earned strictly through what are currently called skill challenges (these will become known as hero challenges) and leveling up. A level 80 character that’s done none of the hero challenges should be able to unlock more than enough skills, specializations, and traits to make several unique full builds. A single character who’s done a fair amount of the hero challenges should be able to unlock all of the core specializations, skills, and traits.

Now maybe I misunderstood something (lacking english skills, not enough skill points to unlock it!), but..
If you play only wvw from lvl 1 ( which is possibe, with lvl-up tomes you don’t even have to play sub-80 characters), you can’t get every skill and every trait?
Isn’t that just… not fair?
We have a few skill challenges, but compared to the pve ones, you can’t call this number “a fair amount” (and the fair amount is still only the pre-HoT skills/traits). So if you want to experiment with builds in WvW, you have to play more PvE.

I hope you can point out where did I misunderstand what Anet said, as I see a pretty sad future now.

PvP in Anet-dialect is always sPvP, never WvW, don’t forget it!

lordkrall.7241:

Phosphia.7813:

Because map completion is no longer a part of WvW. And I wouldn’t imagine all hero challanges to be inside WvW, wouldn’t make much sense.

Which is why I’m asking in this thread.

And yet there were still skill points in WvW last I checked.

hero challenges are skill challenges
there will be some in WvW because there already were.
there wont be enough to unlock everything though, that requires having done most of the skill challenges already.

“Hero Points will be limited, and they’ll be earned strictly through what are currently called skill challenges (these will become known as hero challenges) and leveling up.”

“A single character who’s done a fair amount of the hero challenges should be able to unlock all of the core specializations, skills, and traits.”

Weyrd.2794:

From the blog post:

“PvP players won’t have to worry about unlocking anything, as all skills and traits will be automatically unlocked upon entering the Heart of the Mists.”

So everyone just relax….

Pvp = spvp, not wvw.

phys.7689:

hero challenges are skill challenges
there will be some in WvW because there already were.
there wont be enough to unlock everything though, that requires having done most of the skill challenges already.

“Hero Points will be limited, and they’ll be earned strictly through what are currently called skill challenges (these will become known as hero challenges) and leveling up.”

“A single character who’s done a fair amount of the hero challenges should be able to unlock all of the core specializations, skills, and traits.”

To be fair we don’t actually know how many there would be in the new map seeing as we haven’t really seen a complete version of it yet.

But yeah, it might be hard for people to get what they want in WvW. But then again on the other hand they do seem to imply that you will be able to get a decent enough build by just leveling up to lvl 80. And most people in WvW don’t go around changing traits all the time, so shouldn’t be much of an issue.

Weyrd.2794:

From the blog post:

“PvP players won’t have to worry about unlocking anything, as all skills and traits will be automatically unlocked upon entering the Heart of the Mists.”

So everyone just relax….

pvp is spvp in anet speak as other have said

lordkrall.7241:

phys.7689:

hero challenges are skill challenges
there will be some in WvW because there already were.
there wont be enough to unlock everything though, that requires having done most of the skill challenges already.

“Hero Points will be limited, and they’ll be earned strictly through what are currently called skill challenges (these will become known as hero challenges) and leveling up.”

“A single character who’s done a fair amount of the hero challenges should be able to unlock all of the core specializations, skills, and traits.”

To be fair we don’t actually know how many there would be in the new map seeing as we haven’t really seen a complete version of it yet.

But yeah, it might be hard for people to get what they want in WvW. But then again on the other hand they do seem to imply that you will be able to get a decent enough build by just leveling up to lvl 80. And most people in WvW don’t go around changing traits all the time, so shouldn’t be much of an issue.

lol yes it will be an issue. People in WvW will want to have all trait/class options available for them to play. There’s also a competitive scene there, so yes they will care very much.

lordkrall.7241:

phys.7689:

hero challenges are skill challenges
there will be some in WvW because there already were.
there wont be enough to unlock everything though, that requires having done most of the skill challenges already.

“Hero Points will be limited, and they’ll be earned strictly through what are currently called skill challenges (these will become known as hero challenges) and leveling up.”

“A single character who’s done a fair amount of the hero challenges should be able to unlock all of the core specializations, skills, and traits.”

To be fair we don’t actually know how many there would be in the new map seeing as we haven’t really seen a complete version of it yet.

But yeah, it might be hard for people to get what they want in WvW. But then again on the other hand they do seem to imply that you will be able to get a decent enough build by just leveling up to lvl 80. And most people in WvW don’t go around changing traits all the time, so shouldn’t be much of an issue.

well looking at it again, i realize they said hitting 80 will unlock a decent amount of skills, not skills traits and specializations like they said earlier.

soooo probably wont get too much just from leveling alone.

MeththeMadman.7420:

Wait… What’s going on? Specializations are tied to map completion?

Yes, in particular they will be tied to PvE map based skill points, now called hero points.

Kiss your traits goodbye.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

MeththeMadman.7420:

Wait… What’s going on? Specializations are tied to map completion?

Yes, in particular they will be tied to PvE map based skill points, now called hero points.

Kiss your traits goodbye.

i already am, unlocking them one way or another isn’t my idea of fun so new chars are useless until they remove the BS. (and i am an altaholic, making this twice as bad >_< )

sorudo.9054:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

MeththeMadman.7420:

Wait… What’s going on? Specializations are tied to map completion?

Yes, in particular they will be tied to PvE map based skill points, now called hero points.

Kiss your traits goodbye.

i already am, unlocking them one way or another isn’t my idea of fun so new chars are useless until they remove the BS. (and i am an altaholic, making this twice as bad >_< )

From what I can see here, 4 of my characters just became completely useless because I’m not going hunting for skill points with them.

A new character is still not going to happen. Oh well.

Guys, I don’t think the update will hit and all your WvW characters will suddenly be missing all their traits and skills…

Remember the New Player Experience? Only new characters had to suffer through it. You’ll probably only have to unlock the stuff for the new elite specialization. You could probably just do hero points in starter maps and be done with the entire thing in a half hour.

Dethl.2875:

Guys, I don’t think the update will hit and all your WvW characters will suddenly be missing all their traits and skills…

I think I would rather hear that from Gaile Gray, thanks.

I know how to read, and I know what this says so far.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Dethl.2875:

Guys, I don’t think the update will hit and all your WvW characters will suddenly be missing all their traits and skills…

I think I would rather hear that from Gaile Gray, thanks.

I know how to read, and I know what this says so far.

So instead you’ll assume worst case scenario on a system that doesn’t have a release date yet, and has only been out of preview for three hours? If it makes you happy, I guess.

Dethl.2875:

So instead you’ll assume worst case scenario on a system that doesn’t have a release date…

Yes, because they’ve done it to us before a few times, and it took a kittenstorm from the player base to get them to back down.

Dethl.2875:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Dethl.2875:

Guys, I don’t think the update will hit and all your WvW characters will suddenly be missing all their traits and skills…

I think I would rather hear that from Gaile Gray, thanks.

I know how to read, and I know what this says so far.

So instead you’ll assume worst case scenario on a system that doesn’t have a release date yet, and has only been out of preview for three hours? If it makes you happy, I guess.

The way it is currently put, what we assume is correct unless they plan to state otherwise. Hence the thread.

Can we get an official response to this thread please? Also sitting on about 7 % map completion on all my 8 characters. Really do not want to do PvE in this game.

Region-specific masteries are tied to specific regions. Other mastery points and hero points will go into things you could use anywhere. You can confirm that by rereading info on mastery points. There are separate mastery tracks for each region. HoT will have it’s own and the core game (if not various regions of the core game separately) will have their own mastery track.

PvE “masteries” are just going to be something similar to the WvW rank point system. You gain WvW points in WvW, you’ll gain PvE points in PvE areas and be able to progress skill tracks that you can use in those areas just like you use WvW points to progress skill tracks that boost your power in WvW.

Just keep thinking of it as a PvE version of the WvW skill tracks. It’ll function the same.

Anything you can use in both WvW and PvE, you can unlock by playing only one or the other. Anything you can use in only WvW or PvE can only be unlocked in those respective areas. Just like it is now.

Mo Mo.1947:

Region-specific masteries are tied to specific regions. Other mastery points and hero points will go into things you could use anywhere. You can confirm that by rereading info on mastery points. There are separate mastery tracks for each region. HoT will have it’s own and the core game (if not various regions of the core game separately) will have their own mastery track.

PvE “masteries” are just going to be something similar to the WvW rank point system. You gain WvW points in WvW, you’ll gain PvE points in PvE areas and be able to progress skill tracks that you can use in those areas just like you use WvW points to progress skill tracks that boost your power in WvW.

Just keep thinking of it as a PvE version of the WvW skill tracks. It’ll function the same.

Anything you can use in both WvW and PvE, you can unlock by playing only one or the other. Anything you can use in only WvW or PvE can only be unlocked in those respective areas. Just like it is now.

This is not about masteries.. It’s about hero challanges.

If you don’t want to pve, use tomes and skill scrolls to get the points you need. You get them from keep lords, tower lords and such. If you really need some tomes/scrolls and hate pve.. do spvp for the reward tracks.

It’s not about leveling.. It’s about getting access to hero challange points that you will need in the new patch to unlock trait points. You guys have no idea what you’re talking about. (no offence intended)

Phosphia.7813:

Will you force WvW players to do PvE content for the new class specialization?

Currently sitting on around 7 % world completion on all my characters, not very keen on the idea. Will there be an alternative like the current trait book merchants?

WvW has always been based on your PvE gear (which is good) but you have never been forced to actually do any PvE content. (which is also good)

Will it stay that way?

Map completion in WvW was recently removed from World Completion, to not force PvE players into WvW. Will you now force WvW players into PvE?

World completion for me feels like a soul sucking chore. I completely hate it. There is no other way to say it. I hope they figure something else out or this will be it for me. Map completions sucks the hardest.

Helcor.9527:

World completion for me feels like a soul sucking chore. I completely hate it. There is no other way to say it.

A-men brother!

Kezia.7836:

Yes, and they said in the stream today that they were working on having them drop, about the same rate as the tomes/scrolls. They might be named differently, but idea and where to get them will be same.

they wont be used for hero points.

they will be droping the type of things you use for the forge.

I watched the stream.

You will need 465 hero points to get all the traits and skills for a character. That number doesn’t include elite specializations like druid.

Getting to level 80 will give you 400 hero points which means you will need to get 65 points from hero challenges (currently skill challenges). I somehow doubt there will be 65+ skill challenges in WvW. The few skill challenges in WvW already feel out of place.

It’s disappointing that we have to do boring skill challenges to fully unlock all traits and skills for a character. The way of acquiring traits pre-April 2014 was the best.

Arcadio.6875:

I watched the stream.

You will need 465 hero points to get all the traits and skills for a character. That number doesn’t include elite specializations like druid.

Getting to level 80 will give you 400 hero points which means you will need to get 65 points from hero challenges (currently skill challenges). I somehow doubt there will be 65+ skill challenges in WvW. The few skill challenges in WvW already feel out of place.

It’s disappointing that we have to do boring skill challenges to fully unlock all traits and skills for a character. The way of acquiring traits pre-April 2014 was the best.

And how likely is it that you would be using every single trait/skill in the whole game? In 99% of the cases people go with one build, and then stay with that build. Which 400 HPs would be more than enough for.
In fact, 400 points should be enough to get multiple builds.

lordkrall.7241:

And how likely is it that you would be using every single trait/skill in the whole game? In 99% of the cases people go with one build, and then stay with that build. Which 400 HPs would be more than enough for.
In fact, 400 points should be enough to get multiple builds.

Except WvWers dont have one build. We can have the roaming power build, roaming condi build, zerg build, raid build, commander build, gvg build, focus build… on the same kitten character. Across all professions. Hell I know people that are constantly changing traits between engagements depending on the situation. “Multiple builds” is not enough. A real WvW player will need all the builds, just like a PvP player will have them automatically.

Have they confirmed that PvE will at least have the possibility to get everything unlocked and changed at will? Because last I read it, it sounded like the fire-and-forget WvW skillpoints with an upper limit. Which would ruin everything GW2 stands for. I’m fine with doing PvE (have world exploration on 4 chars anyway, used to it now) if it unlocks everything.

Dawdler.8521:

Except WvWers dont have one build. We can have the roaming power build, roaming condi build, zerg build, raid build, commander build, gvg build, focus build… on the same kitten character. Across all professions. Hell I know people that are constantly changing traits between engagements depending on the situation. “Multiple builds” is not enough. A real WvW player will need all the builds, just like a PvP player will have them automatically.

Have they confirmed that PvE will at least have the possibility to get everything unlocked and changed at will? Because last I read it, it sounded like the fire-and-forget WvW skillpoints with an upper limit. Which would ruin everything GW2 stands for. I’m fine with doing PvE (have world exploration on 4 chars anyway, used to it now) if it unlocks everything.

Yes, there might be some cases that feel the need to have every single possible build on the very same character, but usually people bring different characters for different purposes. It is also rather unusual that the same character would spec BOTH for power and condition, simply because of the fact that most classes are only really viable in one of the two.
And if that happened they would still have rather major issues to get the gear for those builds in the first place, without doing PvE. Sure, they could get it by only doing WvW but it would take months if not years.

Well, when you get to lvl 80 you will have 400 points. In order to fully get everything (except the specialization) you will need 465 points. There are quite a bit many more than 65 skill points in the game. So yes, a PvE player (especially with map completion) will very much be able to get everything unlocked quite easily.

This game is one unit where everything affects the other.

lordkrall.7241:

Yes, there might be some cases that feel the need to have every single possible build on the very same character, but usually people bring different characters for different purposes. It is also rather unusual that the same character would spec BOTH for power and condition, simply because of the fact that most classes are only really viable in one of the two.

Warrior, ranger, engineer, mesmer, necro, and thief all pull of both quite well. And even my guardian that doesn’t do conditions very well, does use several different builds for different purposes in wvw.

Going back 3 years, Anet told us that we could ignore pve and develop our characters in wvw. Why change that now? What is gained from restricting how we are able to progress our characters?

phys.7689:

MeththeMadman.7420:

Wait… What’s going on? Specializations are tied to map completion?

you will need to do skill point challenges in order to unlock all traits.

About 60 of them. Out of the 260-something or so out there.

You can probably complete 60 of them in a single 2 hour session, with most of that time spent in loading screens between zones…

60 might sound like a lot, but its really not.

Kichwas.7152:

You can probably complete 60 of them in a single 2 hour session, with most of that time spent in loading screens between zones…

60 might sound like a lot, but its really not.

Any amount is too much when you’re talking about having to re-earn something we’ve already put in the time/money/effort for once before.

mrstealth.6701:

Any amount is too much when you’re talking about having to re-earn something we’ve already put in the time/money/effort for once before.

But you won’t have unlocked everything in the lines before. Simply because not everything in the lines existed before.

People are so absolutist about their game modes ><

lordkrall.7241:

mrstealth.6701:

Any amount is too much when you’re talking about having to re-earn something we’ve already put in the time/money/effort for once before.

But you won’t have unlocked everything in the lines before. Simply because not everything in the lines existed before.

It’s the same situation as with previous trait mergers and replacements. If traits you have are merged into a single trait, it makes sense that you should have that single trait unlocked. The same goes for a trait that was removed in favor of a different one in its place.

Then you have the fact that characters with hero points via world completion/skill challenge will be able to unlock them with no additional effort. Does their completing a skill challenge count for future credit, but my skillpoints from leveling and gold spent to unlock a trait doesn’t count?

An unlock earned, is an unlock earned, no matter how it was done. It’s not right to say that only method A counts now, and that players using method B now need to go back and do method A.

Traits are going to be 5 points each under the ‘so far’ announcement. And just being a fresh 80 will give you about 200 points I think they said. Another 60, and you can buy all the traits. That means… 12 traits won’t come ‘free’ with a fresh 80.

Now, skill points have been in WvWvW all this time. So most of us, when converted, will have already unlocked more than 260 points… so even if the WvWvW skill tests go away, that’s only going to effect your next upcoming character… not the ones you already have.

Kichwas.7152:

Now, skill points have been in WvWvW all this time. So most of us, when converted, will have already unlocked more than 260 points… so even if the WvWvW skill tests go away, that’s only going to effect your next upcoming character… not the ones you already have.

There are only 13 skillpoints across all 4 wvw maps. And the only skillpoints being converted into hero challenge points are the ones from existing skillpoints challenges and from actual leveling. Skillpoints gain from experience after level 80 are being converted into a new currency to purchase mystic forge materials (the same ones skillpoints currently buy).

A character that currently has everything unlocked from playing only in wvw will not have enough hero challenge points to regain all of their unlocks. They only way to avoid this would be some method of grandfathering existing characters to retain their earned unlocks.

Kichwas.7152:

phys.7689:

MeththeMadman.7420:

Wait… What’s going on? Specializations are tied to map completion?

you will need to do skill point challenges in order to unlock all traits.

About 60 of them. Out of the 260-something or so out there.

You can probably complete 60 of them in a single 2 hour session, with most of that time spent in loading screens between zones…

60 might sound like a lot, but its really not.

its way more than 2 hours, keep in mind those that havent got skill points, probably havent got waypoints, also skillpoints are hidden in fog now.

on a couple of my chars i decided i needed some skill points fast (before they had tons of scrolls)

it takes a noticeable bit of time to get them.
certainly more than 2 minutes per skill point on average.

i mean if you only target the quick ones, but i doubt most people know where they are.
AND you basically will probably need like 180 if you include elite specialization unlocks, so you mas well get the kittenes too.