beta .. are we being heard?

beta .. are we being heard?

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Posted by: Selkirk.4218

Selkirk.4218

so i was wondering have we seen enough of the new expac to qualify this as a beta? our exposure has been so limited i don’t even really know what to expect from hot.

i think it’s been a mistake to release only this tiny sliver of content because what can we really say? how does this compare with beta releases of expacs from other mmo’s? this is a tough question because there really aren’t that many other big mmo’s doing expacs.

i suppose my concern is that we have seen such a limited amount of content i don’t even know what they could have done with that feedback (other than make small qol fixes on these particular sections of the map). and now we are so close to release that bwe3 can’t be much more than a stress test for the game. it’s unlikely they could incorporate major changes in the game at this point.

the beta so far hasn’t shown me enough to judge anything. i fear that the only feedback they are listening to are the people that fully bought into the maps (i can’t be the only one that stopped playing out of disinterest on bwe1 and bwe2).

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Posted by: Sengel.7801

Sengel.7801

We have seen all mechanics save druid and scrapper. All elite specs will be tested and if you’ve been a lurker here seen that all of them have either been overhauled or at very least tweaked significantly since BWE1 (example revenant).

Masteries still take too long to level for my tastes but with them being account bound I can’t really complain. (though this could be from lack of interesting events or events that don’t’ reward enough xp for their length [a 20 min event shouldn’t award the same amount of xp as a 5> min event])

Just like with the core game, ANet doesn’t want to spoil everything for us and would rather us just test systems rather than content. With how huge VB FEELS, I have full faith that my money is well spent.

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Posted by: Invictus.1503

Invictus.1503

Mechanics are what they are really looking to feedback for, and I really agree with this. Look at all the feedback on elite specs and the adjustments they’ve already made based on that feedback. There has been some feedback on the mastery system which they have utilized well from beta to beta. Gliding even received some minor tweaks based on feedback as have some mob design. Stronghold has seen adjustments and so has WvW based on feedback.

Overall I think they are doing very well with getting and using feedback without giving away too much of the story content. Additionally, Anet has shown themselves be be rather responsive with their updates to adjust and correct issues as they may come up (for permanent content at least…let’s not talk about the Mordrem Invasion event).

It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

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Posted by: Diovid.9506

Diovid.9506

It’s difficult to decide between showing enough for the content to be tested and for marketing to do its thing but not showing too much so the content is spoiled. This is the compromise they decided upon, apparently they think it is enough. We will see in a month whether it was enough.

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Posted by: MauricioCezar.2673

MauricioCezar.2673

Other than maps, story and raids, what else the players have not experimented yet in betas?

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Posted by: Selkirk.4218

Selkirk.4218

i’m not all that interested in the mechanics…to me if these are broken they can be fixed. but if the content and story is uninspired/uninteresting -what can be done?

i’m not saying the content is that (altho i wasn’t exactly spellbound by the jungle setting) but i am saying i haven’t seen enough of it to make a decision on whether it’s good or not.

i guess to a more specific question (this is my first time beta testing)..is the amount of content we have seen so far in line with beta testing from other big mmo’s. how does this compare to the amount beta testers saw in say wow or everquest 2 or swtor? some of this is apples and oranges i realize but at least it’s a baseline.

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Posted by: Sengel.7801

Sengel.7801

WoW gives the whole experience away right off the back, no surprises. Arena Net loves giving little surprises in their games so they don’t give it all away (been here since GW2 beta and GW1 prophesies before that)

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Posted by: Coulter.2315

Coulter.2315

i’m not all that interested in the mechanics…to me if these are broken they can be fixed. but if the content and story is uninspired/uninteresting -what can be done?

i’m not saying the content is that (altho i wasn’t exactly spellbound by the jungle setting) but i am saying i haven’t seen enough of it to make a decision on whether it’s good or not.

i guess to a more specific question (this is my first time beta testing)..is the amount of content we have seen so far in line with beta testing from other big mmo’s. how does this compare to the amount beta testers saw in say wow or everquest 2 or swtor? some of this is apples and oranges i realize but at least it’s a baseline.

WoW tends to beta everything (which I think is a shame because you lose that feeling of exploration and also the top guilds basicly learn all the raid mechanics in beta and storm through it instantly at launch), GW2’s betas were confined to just a few maps (up to 25 level maps if I remember correctly?).

In all honesty I don’t think any game developer changes the storylines from beta testing – all they check for is “does the story step activate properly and give out correct rewards.” I personally never noticed an MMO change stories from beta – maybe just remove some side quests. WoD supposedly lost a lot of content just before release (either being pushed back or removed entirely).

As long as the other maps are relatively bug free and the launch goes smoothly (as smoothly as can be expected for an MMO) then I personally am happy with the beta set up we have. Exploration is a very big part of GW2 and something I’m glad the devs recognise and protect.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

It’s a beta, not a demo. They have us test various things that can then be applied to the other maps.

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Posted by: Selkirk.4218

Selkirk.4218

i don’t feel like i’ve seen enough to make a judgement on the expac and so the fear is that voices are getting silenced because frankly there isn’t anything to say.

mechanics seem to be the easiest to fix (and the one that is going to change regardless of where they are now) but the content isn’t going to change. i think feedback like ‘hey this is a boring area’ or these ’npc’s are really good let’s see more of them’ could have been helpful along the way.

but now it feels too late to actually have any influence on the game-it’s done now and i haven’t seen anything.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

You’re not supposed to see the story before it comes out, and story spoilers annoy the heck out of me anyway. When I play a game, I want to experience the story when I start playing.

Are you the kind of guy who likes movie trailers that reveal all the best parts of the movie before you ever see it? Because that annoys the hell out of me.

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Posted by: Selkirk.4218

Selkirk.4218

well i did already buy the ticket. but i’m not asking for the whole story just to see more of the game-i mean these small cutouts of these maps have just left me flat. which isn’t to say the whole expac is this way but we haven’t seen anything else.

are the npc’s and storylines interesting? are the environments? these are the things that won’t change on release. great mechanics in a boring environment mean nothing to me. i might as well be playing a simulator. so yeah i would like to see more content in beta.

i think we have seen a biased ‘survey’/test-those most interested in the mechanical side had tons of opinions and those interested in content have gone unheard. but i like the core game so maybe everything will be ok (fingers crossed).

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Posted by: Coulter.2315

Coulter.2315

well i did already buy the ticket. but i’m not asking for the whole story just to see more of the game-i mean these small cutouts of these maps have just left me flat. which isn’t to say the whole expac is this way but we haven’t seen anything else.

are the npc’s and storylines interesting? are the environments? these are the things that won’t change on release. great mechanics in a boring environment mean nothing to me. i might as well be playing a simulator. so yeah i would like to see more content in beta.

i think we have seen a biased ‘survey’/test-those most interested in the mechanical side had tons of opinions and those interested in content have gone unheard. but i like the core game so maybe everything will be ok (fingers crossed).

You do need to take a little on faith but for certain one thing this game does do well is the environments – its definitely one of the most beautiful MMOs I’ve played. I still support their choice to keep exploration for launch.

Also we have LS3 coming and they’ll be getting feedback on characters throughout for faves to be included there no doubt – more Anise, Faren, Kasmeer and Canach please!

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

We’ve already seen that the feedback has affected all of the elite specs, some of the other prof mechanics, some of the mastery mechanics, some of the map-specific mechanics, and a few other things.

What else would you need them to publicly acknowledge before you agreed that “we” were being heard?

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: ErickDntn.1847

ErickDntn.1847

I think the best way to give feedback about what content you desire is by your experience playing the core game. What lackluster in previous storytelling, if you like, compiled constructively might increase the quality of the content in the future update/expansion. As everyone said, the story and exploration is one of the selling point and it suppose to be wowzer factors on first try, so understandably they limit such content to players.

So yeah, I suppose for this game you get to share your experience with the devs and have faith on them

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

I agree with Erick that a prepurchase of HoT is an expression of faith in the developer.

That said, betas have always been about the developer seeing what a lot of players did to the content, i.e., how would players break things in ways unforeseen. The HoT betas are no different in that regard.

The advent of pay-to-access betas, however, has changed things in the minds of the consumer. They’re now viewed as a “preview” of what’s coming. The OP thinks his money bought him a preview of the XPac. However, while developer cash flow now benefits from paid beta access, they’ve not changed their view of what beta is, i.e., free test subjects.

What ANet did offer as a preview was a glimpse of the mastery system, the new profession, some of the Elite Specs, and a portion of one map. Was this enough? Not for the OP, who seems to be experiencing a case of Buyer’s Remorse. Also — food for thought — did ANet show most of what’s coming? In other words, are the other maps substantially different, or will we see a cut/paste of the types of encounters and events shown so far?

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Posted by: Selkirk.4218

Selkirk.4218

i don’t really think it’s unfair to expect a ‘preview’ in a paid beta. not as if i’m asking for the entire game and all the loot. just to see another area (again not all areas).

and i guess what shook me a bit was the failure of the recent event. i mean the devs were grasping at straws as to why it failed…and the player base knew immediately why it failed. i think our feedback on content could have proven valuable.

but that ship has sailed. and i don’t necessarily think the beta ‘conversation’ we have been having (which mechanics work best/which class is op/weapon choices etc…) is necessarily a reflection of the player base. honestly many of the people arguing fiercely about mechanics and specs will be bored with these same mechanics and specs in a month.

so then what’s left? the quality of the content…and we have only seen tiny slivers of it.

edit: what is also troubling is the suspicion that all areas will be like verdant brink …which means they have only shown us small slices of a very similar pie.

edit 2: i’m not really experiencing buyer’s remorse as such (hey it’s not like it cost 500 bucks)…more like buyer’s anxiety-this thing better be good..i hope it doesnt suck..etc…

(edited by Selkirk.4218)

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

I tend to agree with you, really. The point I was trying to make (and apparently failed at) was, “What if what the beta showed us is pretty much it, with the other maps having some different topography and some of the same type of events, just renamed and reskinned?” At that point, with the majority of the Elite Specs and Rev on display, the beta would have been a fairly comprehensive preview. I hope that’s not the case, but no developer would reveal that, just like some comedy trailers don’t tell you that the only funny jokes in the movie are those shown in the trailer.

The longevity of HOT is very much on my mind at this time. Since more of the specs disinterest than interest me, the playable content is what’s left. I’m at this point unsure if HoT is going to provide enough for me to do that’s different. Raids won’t, and zones like Silverwastes won’t. Maybe adventures will be the thing, but I don’t know yet.

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Posted by: DresdenAllblack.1249

DresdenAllblack.1249

My only gripe isn’t with the beta, it’s in the presentation. They are trying to sell 4 zones as 12 and that pig doesn’t fly. The zones better be Russia-sized, because if this expac doesn’t get us to the ocean then we can rule out Cantha/Elona until 2020.

But on topic, our feedback has been heard and in a lot of cases utilized. The first BWE the Rev was an absolute cream puff and now everyone wants one.

Angelina is free game again.
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Posted by: Bandit.8279

Bandit.8279

You never want the inmates running the asylum. For a beta its been fine. Some devs communicate better than others but we have to remember they are real people too.

Reading through and participating with the bwe feedback threads I feel like they are trying to walk that thin line of making us happy but not breaking the game and keeping to their vision at the same time. Not to mention with the release so close we can’t expect any sweeping changes. A lot of balancing will continue once the xpac ships because balancing in MMO’s never truly ends.

As long as it’s not a buggy mess like bwe1 then I will be happy. The zones seem really huge and expansive and if they can deliver on the “difficult content” it’s a win in my book. But we haven’t seen much so it’ll be hard to judge one way or the other and that’s fine by me. I would much rather have more surprises and that true feeling of exploration.

Fools N Gold [FNG] of Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: EdgarMTanaka.7291

EdgarMTanaka.7291

i don’t really think it’s unfair to expect a ‘preview’ in a paid beta. not as if i’m asking for the entire game and all the loot. just to see another area (again not all areas).

and i guess what shook me a bit was the failure of the recent event. i mean the devs were grasping at straws as to why it failed…and the player base knew immediately why it failed. i think our feedback on content could have proven valuable.

but that ship has sailed. and i don’t necessarily think the beta ‘conversation’ we have been having (which mechanics work best/which class is op/weapon choices etc…) is necessarily a reflection of the player base. honestly many of the people arguing fiercely about mechanics and specs will be bored with these same mechanics and specs in a month.

so then what’s left? the quality of the content…and we have only seen tiny slivers of it.

edit: what is also troubling is the suspicion that all areas will be like verdant brink …which means they have only shown us small slices of a very similar pie.

edit 2: i’m not really experiencing buyer’s remorse as such (hey it’s not like it cost 500 bucks)…more like buyer’s anxiety-this thing better be good..i hope it doesnt suck..etc…

About the recent event…

I beleave that it was not the “core” dev team working on that event and if they where they would have been vert stressed and just threw some programing and planning in there just to make it happen. I bet they are pretty bussy with making HoT able to be release on time without that many bugs.
I didn’t like the recent event, I hated it and as I was away more than 80% of the event time I decided not to play it at all but I still admire that Anet took some time to make an event for us while we are waiting for the expac, I am one of those who asked for it. From what I have played from the two BWE I have alot of faith in Anet’s Dev team.

But when the game is released, no matter how many BWE and how much content we get to play there will always be bugs that annoys us and there will be stories that people won’t like. It will always be like that, I didn’t want an expac I wanted them to continue with bi-weekly updates forewer but I guess I pulled the short straw, next time I might be the “winner” with something I would like extra much to happen in this game.

Beta test. It is usually called Bug testing and testing the story to see if it is good and try to have your voice make story writers change their story is not included in Bug testing.

You can’t make everyone happy, becouse I realy like the story in GW2 from start (Including Personal story with Trehern) to now and I know others dont.

Member of Alpha Swedish Gaming Community – http://www.alphas.se/
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]

(edited by EdgarMTanaka.7291)