Guild Wars 2

Lorelei.7809:

If it is retroactive, then WvW players are ahead.

There’s been no indication that it is retroactive and I’m not sure I’d even agree with making it retroactive. WXP rank doesn’t necessarily reflect anything outside of time spent doing ktraining in either EOTM or WvW, a type of game-play that not every WvW player partakes in. Also, when sPvP got the reward tracks with Tomes of Knowledge, iirc there was nothing retroactive for the sPvP players who had low level toons because they only played them in sPvP.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Colin has cleared up what it will cost to unlock the Elite Spec. You’ll need 400 hero points, but as a prerequisite to beginning to unlock it you’ll have to have all the trait lines already maxed. So for example if you play an Elementalist, you’ll have to have all existing trait lines/specializations (Air, Fire, Water, Earth, Arcane) completely maxxed before you can begin to put hero points towards the Elite Spec (which again will cost 400 hero points on its own).

This will encourage players to grind hero points over everything else and for me I know it will dappen the overall new feel of the expansion at launch. I am 100% ok with the 400 points to unlock the full Elite Spec trait line, but absolutely hate the prereq to unlock all other traitlines. That’s ridiculously because I just don’t use all of them. Since I see this as creating grind to get to the new class play mechanics and since those mechanics were such an important part of my BWE experiences I have to say I don’t understand this decision. As much as any MMO aspires to be anti-grind the eventually descend there, don’t they. What the kitten happened to casual friendly? The hero point acquisition is a time sink. How about sticking to your original manifesto and giving those of us who have jobs and don’t play 24/7 some way to obtain these through the gem store? I’d have no problem if you took that path with it either, but as stated to be implemented once again we have very bad design decision IMO.

Oh well, at least we have them unlocked in PvP. I suppose that will continue to be the only aspect of the game I care about. Love this game, strongly dislike the game design leadership decisions like this because they go against the original vision and manifesto of taking most of the time sinks in an MMO and making those available to more mature players with lives and time commitments through the cash store.

Yea ….

So according to this Collin guy and this system it will take me around 2 YEARS to unlock these specs.

8 toons x 200 WvW ranks per toon (which is what it takes to get 400 HPs). I have been playing the game since early launch and I am currently at rank 1567 with a 1 year break, and I am NOT a casual. So per these calculations that is another 2 years.

LOL W T F ? Just W T F ? 2 kittening years to fully unlock specs on my 80s.

Good system A-Net …….

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

You are turning your shiny new xpac maps into a silverwaste for HP the first month… All you will see is LFG for HP trains. Which is sad. You now have forced players into a no win situation. 1) Do I take my time with the content and explore it as I should absorbing all and thus be a detriment to my guild on the battlefield for bringing a non elite OR 2) do I ruin my xpac experience and just HPtrain the map like so many others will be doing…

I think you are very right!

Endlos.4852:

There’s no good reason or excuse to require the player to 100% unlock the base class before accessing the elite specialization. I can only equip 3 trait lines at a time, including the elite. Why in the kitten would I need to have fully unlocked 5 trait lines before I can slot the 6th? The only answer that can be given is “well, it extends the grind” and if that’s the only answer, then you need to rethink the design.

ANet has been desperately trying to give players reasons to stay around for a long time, starting with the third month of the game. Even when LW Season 1 releases came two weeks apart for a short time, players told ANet that the long-term goals are too grindy and the short terms goals are not enough to keep them engaged for more than a couple of hours. So, they keep trying to find a compromise between “too grindy” and “done too soon.”

I don’t care for it either, and I’ve only got 9 characters. However, I can understand why they did it. I understand why they implemented Ascended, and I don’t like it, either. At the moment, it looks like I’m making a different choice than I made when Asc. popped into the game.

This all fine and dandy for old classes who can collect Hero points before but what are we going to do use Elite spec of Revenant, grind for one week to use it?

That is craap….

So I’ve slept on it and I’ve come to the following conclusion:

The thing that hurts the most for PvE players, and does the most harm to WvW players is the 10x multiplier on Maguuma Hero Challenges.

The 10x multiplier hurts PvE players because it all but invalidates any “work” they’ve done in the original game to prepare alts for HoT. It invalidates those characters who have got world completion, suddenly instead of 214 hero points, they have the equivalent of 21. Now if all traits and skills can be unlocked inside the original datamined figure of 170 and the remainder is used exclusively to unlock skins, runes, and sigils, then I don’t think anyone would be complaining about that. Very few people would feel the need to blitz through content just to unlock optional things like that.

The 10x multiplier hurts WvW players because they are disproportionately hit by anything that involves Hero points, even under the new system. If the 10x multiplier requirement were dropped (but their special 10x bundles remained) then I think that would be okay for them.

In short, make all the Maguuma Hero challenges yield 1 point, and recalculate the requirements for elite specialisations based on that, and I can’t see anyone complaining too bitterly. It’s not as if we wouldn’t play through all the content anyway, it’d just be nice to play through the content on the profession we choose, rather than play through the content and then have nothing new to explore (except raids which aren’t going to be open to everyone due to hard skill requirements … not complaining about that, just pointing out a fact of life) with their new profession.

I want to explore with my Berserker, not in order to get my Berserker.

People will happily grind themselves into a stupor for cosmetics, but don’t ask them to grind for things that matter … please.

papry.8096:

Sigmoid.7082:

How many you need depends on the placement on the unlock track. Since you are expecting to need the full 400 to get the final GM trait anything less would be a bonus to you.

You’re righ on this, but this is still a pain in the kitten .
You are assuming that the GM trait aren’t the last unlock, if they are this still as much stupid.

From the way I see it traits and skills will be first because skins, runes and sigils are further expansions after you have “mastered” your elite spec. The placement will be Importsnt between lots of work and a satisfying feeling of progression on your character.

I super like the solution presented!

While it gives a slight head start to elite spec training if you happen to have amassed excess hero points in the open world until now, it still preserves the fun of a gradual further progression when searching out and completing the challenges in Maguuma.

The 10x is also good, as it keeps the amount new challenges to do in Maguuma down to a reasonable amount yet makes them much more important than just bringing pre-farmed points from the base game world.

I understand the outcry because it is different than people may have expected, but this does not make the presented system any less than a very sound and wise decision.

Thumbs Up

Shinya.2598:

400 Hero Points…
Wow… I have mixed feelings about that. I like the fact that it wont be “easy” to become an elite spec. I hope you realize A-net that i wanna play HoT as a Reaper, not becoming a reaper after I’ve finnished HoT.
There better be plenty of accessible Hero Challanges early on.

binidj.5734:

I want to explore with my Berserker, not in order to get my Berserker.

Just to put it out there, it’s not hard to already have 60 hero points which seems to be the threshold to unlock the elite specialisation and give you access to the new weapon. Most people will likely have enough points to unlock the first few traits and a few of the new skills too, let’s be honest.

So you likely can begin roaming as an elite spec, but will only have a partial trait tree. Doesn’t seem bad to me…

…but then I like the high HP requirement and “noone else does”, so what do I know?

I see a lot of people equating world completion with earning hero points also. Getting world completion takes a long time. I know. I’ve done it nine times. Running across a map vacuuming up all the hero points is quicker, much quicker.

Stop whining…. srsly pep start cry if anet dont give them anything on silver plater. Unlocking specializations in pve will take few days and you act like you have to grind 4 weeks.

atm, there no way to know how many points are needed to use a full line, the only info is 60 points to start. Plenty of time to go grab some hero challenge on what ever character you want out in the world.
At the same time, after someone else mention it, in the beta we never say any HP, so we really unsure where they are located, how easy / hard, so till release, over worrying on this, might not be good.

Black Box.9312:

PopeUrban.2578:

The people complaining about this are literally complaining that character progression systems scale linearly relative to the number of characters you want to progress.

Next you’ll be asking for waypoints to be account unlocks.

Even with your assumption that everyone is only worried about having to grind alts aside (Protip: That’s not the only reason people are unhappy about this), many people have already progressed their characters. Not everyone enjoys being told that the work that they did amounts to nothing.

People who want more “progression” can feel free to make a new character and start over. The rest of us would just like to be able to complete the new content with the elite spec of our choice fully fleshed out from the start. I’m not very satisfied with the thought of finally fully unlocking the Herald, only to realize that after rushing through the content and not having any fun that there’s none of it left to complete with my fancy new e-spec.

Elite specs were, from the very first reveal always advertised as anet’s new method of ongoing character progression

Not a thing they hand you as soon as it hits live, but progression That is used as the way to add new character build options.

The breakup of skill points and miyani currency was done specifically for this reason, just like the specialization system was done specifically for this reason. making hero points a limited commodity and converting all excess skill points from the old system was also done specifically for this reason. The whole game was redesigned around this progression system months ago, alongside very detailed blog posts as to why.

They said this a whole lot during the trait update, the reveal of elite specs as a system, and continually during all the “hoT is really about designing expandable systems we will continue to use in the future.”

Again, they specifically stated progression is a thing they want to be ongoing but that they want to do it without a vertical gear treadmill

What part of any of the information we’ve had over the past year gave you the idea that elite specs weren’t designed from the ground up as a progression system?

It’s literally the GW2 version of adding new skill trainers and secondary class options. They’re major feature updates, intended to give characters additional horizontal avenues of progression beyond the previous limitations.

I really, for the life of me, don’t understand what people are so up in arms about.

It’s almost as if you expected to be at the end of expansion character progression the day the expansion released. That was never advertised or even implied. How everyone got it in their heads in the first place that they’d be running around in full on elite specs outside of sPvP is beyond me. It’s not how the game has ever worked, or has even ever been advertised as an intent

They intend that you complete new content to access new character build options

And when the next elite spec is released, you can bet it will come alongside new PvE maps and new WvW angry letters corresponding to those maps. It is literally half of the content of all open world maps moving forward by design because it was the only part of world completion that was meaningful aside from getting achievements in the first place

The other half of the system is masteries, and masteries are the account end of that progression system. This is the character end. The game is full of complimentary systems like these, generally limiting things useful across all characters as account systems (bank tabs, crafting, etc.) so that you don’t end up doing the same unlocks on wildly different characters, and things useful only on a given character (bag space, profession skill unlocks, gear) as character systems. In general the account unlocks help facilitate faster progress through character systems. The relationship of masteries to elite specs is no different.

If your worried about it, still two day to go, you an go hunt some pve HP, and get ready for them.

Tongku.5326:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Colin has cleared up what it will cost to unlock the Elite Spec. .

Yea ….

So according to this Collin guy and this system it will take me around 2 YEARS to unlock these specs.

It won’t take 2 years lol, he said one hero point is equal to 10 points in the maguuma. So do 40 hero challenges and you’re done. Only way it will take 2 years if you do something like 2 hero points per month.

Shinya.2598:

I hope they realize that i wanna play HoT as a Reaper, not play HoT to become a Reaper. There better be easily accessible Hero Challanges early on.

If you done some of the core map HP, you got your self a good head start then, since there like 200 map one to collect.

Might want to read the rest of his quote, he worry about it in WvW, atm, unsure how hard to earn it, but atm, it will take time. Unless some changes or how it work, being missed in understanding.

Not that anyone care I guess but this is what I started doing and what I have done now to prepare for HoT.

First I wanted a specific character for Daredevil, Reaper and Druid so I made 3 new characters. I started leveling them since I do not like to level with tomes. Yesterday I just figured out that it is even better if I actually level up my 3 new characters with tomes so that I will get experience for my masteries in Tyria while doing world compleation with them.

You play the game just the way you want, but if you want Tyria Masteries you need to earn experience in iether Tyria Open World or ?Dungeons?. As it comes to me I don’t do dungeons that much but I do roam the world with my friends so I rather earn Experience for my masteries while I get the Hero Points I need. Instead of having it all (Except masteries) and than just farm or Grind one single place or dungeon only to earn masteries.

I’m REALLY looking forward to Friday. Then at least most of the whiny forum posts might be based upon having experienced stuff first-hand in the game.

Some of you folks seem to have pre-purchased the expansion and then spent the whole time talking yourselves out of liking what you have bought, before it even begins. Give it a chance. You might enjoy it.

Random.4691:

Alukah.2063:

Random.4691:

Alukah.2063:

Chaba.5410:

ColinJohanson.2394:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Unless I am mistaken just to unlock half of the training line, we need 212 hero points?

It’s 400 points total to unlock everything in an elite spec training line – I just can’t remember off hand how many points folks have currently if they have done all the existing ones, but it’s right around 200. The rest you’ll need to earn in jungle to unlock the deeper skills/traits/etc. in the training line.

You only need 60 hero points to begin using your elite spec, the points you spend after that continue to unlock more skills, traits, skins, etc.

Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.

A Portrait of the Player as a WvW Regular

- Two accounts (actually I have three but only purchased HoT for these two).
- Twelve level 80s
- Two above 60 hero points
- Only one with 100% map completion
- 75% of toons under 20% map completion
- 5904 combined total gaming hours
- No Legendary
- No full sets of ascended gear
- Purchaser of gems with real cash
- 1892 combined WXP rank (677 and 1215 respectively)

How can you help me? Can I hire you to get the hero points for my toons?

Anet should totally cater to you, because your case is the same as 90% of the playerbase.

His case is the same as a lot more players then you think. GJ on the ignorance though, mega servers give you the illusion of PvE being more populated. You would be surprised how many WvW players there actually are.

Yeah because there’s a direct relation between WvW population and people with 12 characters.

“His case is the same as a lot more players then you think.”

Citation needed.

Nice cherry pick, did you just decide to leave out the rest of the list because it did not suit your argument ?

My first reply to him was about his 12 alts in 3 accounts, you said his case is the same as a lot more players (which only a delusional person would believe) you bring up PvE megaserver population as if it has anything to do with the topic and now you accuse me of cherry picking…

In any other mmo expansion you would need to level up 10 times before you could begin grinding for raid level gear. That progression would take 1-2 years for casual raider.

In GW2 you can begin the content right away as the content is character development. I have to say that anet failed in one area on this: Communication. Other than that I am OK.

Inverse.2967:

I super like the solution presented!

While it gives a slight head start to elite spec training if you happen to have amassed excess hero points in the open world until now, it still preserves the fun of a gradual further progression when searching out and completing the challenges in Maguuma.

If with progression you mean, tying one hand behind your back on your own volition and then gradually loosen the bonds with every hero point then yes, you do get progression. Because that’s what it is, the elite spec is meant to be a side grade not an upgrade so it should be around the same strength (though the strength of the elite spec may suit the content more). So equiping an unfinished elite spec in content based on full trait lines is purposely limiting yourself and the worst thing is that you don’t have to weaken yourself.

The 10x is also good, as it keeps the amount new challenges to do in Maguuma down to a reasonable amount yet makes them much more important than just bringing pre-farmed points from the base game world.

And why should base hero points be less then hot hero point? You did content either way.
As it is the 10x is just a means to lure people into the jungle and farm specific masteries just to get their elite spec.

I understand the outcry because it is different than people may have expected, but this does not make the presented system any less than a very sound and wise decision.

Thumbs Up

The outcry is because the system will make HoT maps madatory to be explored and will turn the HoT maps into a trainfests where people will just run from hero challenge to hero challenge and zerg it down. I am expecting to see lfg posts in the form off “looking for hero train” for each map.

Pezz.4758:

thats either basically doing map complete now in 3 days to find enough to unlock it.

How many times? Map Completion is NOT the same as collecting Hero Points.

NOT THE SAME

Renown hearts and running to “out-of-the-way” locations to pick up PoIs and Vistas are what take the time. You’re probably 10-15 mins running through each zone collecting Hero Points. Less in zones you have likely already partially explored.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

/sigh

(Silver platter) here yah go. The whole game unlocked for you. Enjoy.

Also this. A hundred times this.

I remember back in 2012 asking all of the players complaining that they had to level up to 80 if they would rather everything in the game was unlocked from the start so they could just rush the story and leave. Most complainants I asked said yes. I found that to be very sad.

Vieteriukko.6075:

In any other mmo expansion you would need to level up 10 times before you could begin grinding for raid level gear. That progression would take 1-2 years for casual raider.

In GW2 you can begin the content right away as the content is character development. I have to say that anet failed in one area on this: Communication. Other than that I am OK.

Isn’t in any other MMO expansion the progression vertical instead of horizontal? So they are not depowered when used while not fully unlocked? In HoT running with a semi-unlocked elite spec is actually playing with a handicap.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Pezz.4758:

please dont take this as rage or hate or anything but i gotta vent im a little ….meh.

So i main necro, followed the scrapper hype all through the info releases. After trying it on the beta weekend i was hooked. I had a partially leveled engy, so i finished it, grinded out all his skills, all his exotics, some ascended, crafting , bought skins went HAM.

now i find out, to even play the elite spec, i have to grind ANOTHER at least 170 points.

So doing the math, thats either basically doing map complete now in 3 days to find enough to unlock it. OR waiting till HoT, where they are 10 points each. BUT assuming 5-10 per map like currents maps, i will be half way through HoT open world content BEFORE even being able to use the spec properly.

Like i said im not raging but i cant lie, kinda killed the hype for release when i know its just going to be a grind to even START playing.

“Play how you want” ha, ya right.

To be fair, there where to be the “new progression” along with masteries. Wouldn’t be much progression if we had them almost immediately would it?

It would be progression if I wasn’t depowered when equiping it while uncomplete.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I have to say I don’t understand the forums.

Previously: Everything is too easy! We have nothing to do! Give us something, anything to do!

Now: OMG! You want us to do stuff??? This is uncalled for! Way too much to do!

Poor Devs.

Yes, grinding hero points and grinding in general is surely challenging content. My God you Arenadrones will defend anything.

Just some reality here. You don’t need 400 points to use and enjoy a spec. For 60 points, you start using the weapon. The 200 points I already having sitting there on five different characters will get most of it done. I’ll have to do 20 challenges in HoT to get the rest of it on those five characters.

It might take me a while, but I’ll be using most of the spec long before that. From day one in fact.

Tim.6450:

It would be progression if I wasn’t depowered when equiping it while uncomplete.

Use a non-elite spec build until you’ve unlocked the whole tree then.

There are plenty of viable builds which don’t require an elite spec.

As for me. I wont be touching Dragonhunter with my Guardian Main when I start HoT, but I will begin using the other elite specs before I’ve unlocked the whole tree…and you know what? I don’t even care.

Varrg.2704:

Yes, grinding hero points and grinding in general is surely challenging content. My God you Arenadrones will defend anything.

People whined about having to earn Skill Points “back in the day” before they could buy normal skills too!

Most people got over it in the end.

Neva Eilhart.5347:

Tapioca.9062:

By the time I’ve fully explored the HoT content I might even have enough hero points to unlock the new specialisation. I hope the next expansion comes out soon so I might get the chance to use it during in-game content.

This, so much this.
Proves how illogical this decision is.

Totally agreed, I was expecting to play HoT WITH Elite specs, not play HoT TO UNLOCK Elite specs ready for the next new content.

Hexalot.8194:

The thing is, those people who are looking at the 10 hero points per hero challenge in the HOT jungle and figuring this should get you to 400 quickly are forgetting one thing… chances are a lot of the challenge locations are going to be unreachable unless you first unlock and level up the requisite masteries (gliding, mushroom jumping, etc…). So don’t be surprised if you first have to grind mastery levels before you can complete the jungle hero challenges.

Things get worse and worse.

Sarie.1630:

Tim.6450:

It would be progression if I wasn’t depowered when equiping it while uncomplete.

Use a non-elite spec build until you’ve unlocked the whole tree then.

There are plenty of viable builds which don’t require an elite spec.

As for me. I wont be touching Dragonhunter with my Guardian Main when I start HoT, but I will begin using the other elite specs before I’ve unlocked the whole tree…and you know what? I don’t even care.

Then how is this a sense of progression? The only difference with this and giving it at launch is the timing/cost.

Tim.6450:

Then how is this a sense of progression? The only difference with this and giving it at launch is the timing/cost.

Want a sense of progression?

Put 60 points into the Elite Spec at the start and begin using it. You can then watch it progress as you put more points into it.

BINGO! Progression! Win!

Oh…. OH…. sorry….you wanted INSTANT progression? The type of progression that isn’t progression, it’s the type where you just get given everything. Sorry, my bad.

Kraggy.4169:

I was expecting to play HoT WITH Elite specs, not play HoT TO UNLOCK Elite specs ready for the next new content.

“I was expecting to play through HoT having already been given all of the story details by one of the devs, not play HoT to actually find the story out for myself.”

“I was expecting to play through HoT with all the new armour skins unlocked, not play HoT to actually unlock the skins myself.”

“I was expecting to play through HoT with all the masteries unlocked, not play HoT to actually unlock all the masteries myself.”

“I was expecting to play through HoT with my guild hall already built and decorated exactly how I wanted it, not play HoT to actually build my guild hall myself.”

Sarie.1630:

Tim.6450:

Then how is this a sense of progression? The only difference with this and giving it at launch is the timing/cost.

Want a sense of progression?

Put 60 points into the Elite Spec at the start and begin using it. You can then watch it progress as you put more points into it.

BINGO! Progression! Win!

Oh…. OH…. sorry….you wanted INSTANT progression? The type of progression that isn’t progression, it’s the type where you just get given everything. Sorry, my bad.

That’s not progression, progression is not tying one hand behind your back and then loosening the rope a bit with every hero point you unlock just to get the use of your 2 hands back.

Iason Evan.3806:

I would have rather they had a story for each Elite spec near the beginning of HoT. Instead they changed the name of skill points to hero points. I think it would have had more impact that way. Show how Rytlock became a Revenant. Show how your character becomes a Druid. Or a Daredevil. There are ways to do progression rather than it being “go out and earn these hero points that have nothing to do with how your class works.” Play a story instead that explains how your character learned the skills to become what the elite profession is. I hope that explains my stance a little better.

That is the same way i thought it would be. I get that Anet wants to force people to do map exploration but not everyone likes that. But to tie your specialisation to Hero-Challenges is poor choice. Here is the reason from my perspective as to why is poor choice as a WvW player.

As a WvW player I would have much enjoyed to had a personal story quest with friends, exploring new areas, unlocking gradually the new specialisation.

Instead i have to grind 200 WvW Ranks and 6000 badges to achieve the 400 HP for the new specialisation. And that is only for 1 char. I have 8 level 80 chars, for each core profession as a total, that i enjoy playing in WvW. Currently i have a rank of 1920 and a bit more than 4300 Hours of gameplay. So i will be needing about 1800 new WvW-Ranks on top of what i have and about 50000 badges to enjoy the new specialisations.

Here is what will happen upon release of HoT as everyone wants the new specialisation.

1. Hero Points trains will be formed rushing through maps.

2. EOTM – Trains will be formed to farm the 200 WvW ranks and 6000 badges needed.

Regards

Seed

Seera.5916:

How many raid groups will accept a player who doesn’t have their elite skill unlocked? What about dungeon or fractal groups?

This is the key point those who already HAVE 11 world completions and who are now being hugely condescending to those that don’t are ignoring.

Sarie.1630:

Kraggy.4169:

I was expecting to play HoT WITH Elite specs, not play HoT TO UNLOCK Elite specs ready for the next new content.

“I was expecting to play through HoT having already been given all of the story details by one of the devs, not play HoT to actually find the story out for myself.”

“I was expecting to play through HoT with all the new armour skins unlocked, not play HoT to actually unlock the skins myself.”

“I was expecting to play through HoT with all the masteries unlocked, not play HoT to actually unlock all the masteries myself.”

“I was expecting to play through HoT with my guild hall already built and decorated exactly how I wanted it, not play HoT to actually build my guild hall myself.”

MY expectations came from Anet’s pre-sale hype and the game as presented in the betas .. your pitiful attempt at a putdown fails, hard.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Unlocking your elite spec is a training line in your training panel that costs hero points. You do need to have trained all the existing training lines before you’re allowed to put hero points into your elite spec.

Well THAT has never been made clear, certainly not in your pre-sale hype!

Kraggy.4169:

Well THAT has never been made clear, certainly not in your pre-sale hype!

Those of us who know ArenaNet also know that their plans can change in a second, we know that they hold back information until late. I pre-purchased Heart of Thorns knowing this and expecting this. Too many players take information they release at face value and then twist and contort the hype into what they want to hear. When it’s been twisted enough players then get attached to the idea that they wont have to work for something, like you and your Elite Specs, even though this has never been stated.

Be careful of “chinese whispers”.

It makes sense that you should master the core of your profession first, before you can specialise. I predicted this way back. Way, way back.

It makes sense to me, anyway.

It probably doesn’t to most others given the “i-want-it-now” culture.

People love a reason to complain.

Players waking up today…

Another storm in a teacup event. Wonder what the next end of the world will be?

Yargesh.4965:

Another storm in a teacup event. Wonder what the next end of the world will be?

It’ll be when they find out that in order to level a Revenant you can only do so in WvW, given it’s in the mists, in order to attune your new Revenant to the magic of the mists.

Oh, and that you can’t use Level Tomes.

Wahey.

Seed.5467:

Iason Evan.3806:

I would have rather they had a story for each Elite spec near the beginning of HoT. Instead they changed the name of skill points to hero points. I think it would have had more impact that way. Show how Rytlock became a Revenant. Show how your character becomes a Druid. Or a Daredevil. There are ways to do progression rather than it being “go out and earn these hero points that have nothing to do with how your class works.” Play a story instead that explains how your character learned the skills to become what the elite profession is. I hope that explains my stance a little better.

That is the same way i thought it would be. I get that Anet wants to force people to do map exploration but not everyone likes that. But to tie your specialisation to Hero-Challenges is poor choice. Here is the reason from my perspective as to why is poor choice as a WvW player.

As a WvW player I would have much enjoyed to had a personal story quest with friends, exploring new areas, unlocking gradually the new specialisation.

Instead i have to grind 200 WvW Ranks and 6000 badges to achieve the 400 HP for the new specialisation. And that is only for 1 char. I have 8 level 80 chars, for each core profession as a total, that i enjoy playing in WvW. Currently i have a rank of 1920 and a bit more than 4300 Hours of gameplay. So i will be needing about 1800 new WvW-Ranks on top of what i have and about 50000 badges to enjoy the new specialisations.

Here is what will happen upon release of HoT as everyone wants the new specialisation.

1. Hero Points trains will be formed rushing through maps.

2. EOTM – Trains will be formed to farm the 200 WvW ranks and 6000 badges needed.

Regards

Seed

Making quests for each unlock though? Too time consuming. It’s not worth the cost. You may not like it but part of running a big project like this is cost analysis. Sure every single thing in the game would be much better accompanied by a full story. But who’s going to pay for that?

The one to Rule.2593:

Just because they expected they were going to use them day one does not ever mean that they were. The title of " Elite" should have betrayed the fact that it was going to take some work.

Right. They seemed about the same balance (at least for a first try) as any other character. Most people just assumed they would cost the same as any other trait and skill line. The topic of unlocking has come up constantly as we waited for release. The name ‘elite’ we all took to mean ‘level 80s with a lot of hero challenges done’ and nobody from anet told us we were wrong. How many threads have there been with people talking about whether they liked a set of specs or not?

I bought hot for the new mechanics. I could give a toss about the new areas. Sure, I want to see them, but not be essentially forced to run through it, I wanted to explore at my own pace and appreciate things. Thanks, I can not do that now. I am now dreading HOT more than looking forward to it.

Oh well, Halloween content Friday. I do not know what I will do after the king leaves for the year though.

I strongly dislike that I’m buying an expansion and then I have to do farming on all my alts to access the new content I bought the expansion for, the elite specializations. For me personally that seems more like a chore than fun gameplay. I have spent a lot of time running around PvE gathering hero points on one of the several alts I have and have reached something like 120 hero points. That’s not fun for me. Even if the ones in the jungle (a zone that doesn’t hold alot of interest for me personally) are worth more, and even if you can buy them with badges of honor, these are just alternative ways of grinding instead of just playing. I don’t know any good alternative solutions though. Maybe just let people play the content they have bought the expansion for and leave all the grinding to unlock the new skins?

I’ll be okay with this if I can unlock the trait line before having to put points in the fluff like skins and runes. It’s okay to cost 400 points to unlock all the skins and runes and crap, but if the first 60 points go into unlocking the traits, vertical progression, before the rest goes into horizontal progression.

I will add my voice to how this is a bad design. Bad design. I understand the desire to eek out the elite spec, but you turn HoT from a place to progress and wonder at the sighs to rushing through without any attention to the scenario, the quests, the NPCs, in order to unlock the elite spec, and then go back to the start and progress normally, do the events, see the sights. But now spoiled for the initial rush.

Especially for Revenants and Glint being so good there is rarely any build which does not have it (lets not go into how it has Swiftness simply to explore the land).

What I don’t really like is the way they always release content. As I can understand some people may be hyped about the jungle/new PVE content, I can also understand another points of view that are not in the same direction.

For example, WvW and PvP players. I don’t know but I think no one said that Hero Points will be obtained in PvP (or if you need them to play specialization in PvP). In that case PvP players will be forced to play PVE or WvW to get them.

Then in the case of PVE and WvW, there is always a big difference and unbalance between the rewards in between these 2. In PVE, you are going to get 10 Hero Points per each you get in the jungle. On the other hand in WvW you will be getting 1 by 1, so it will make much much slower getting hero points in WvW than in PVE. My complain is that, why is there always much more rewardings (in all kind of things) in PVE that in another game modes? Why is always PVE above everything else?

Over 4k hours in the game 10 characters up to 80 full unlocked here, I do play WvW and PvP mostly.

The new hero point system is THRASH.

400 hp for a single character? Easy. For each of my 10 (soon 11) characters? INSANE. They even destroyed my main source of character progression (PvP tomes, due they replaced the skill points for hero points without enabling any sort of getting them in PvP).

I’ll must be forced to abandon most of my toons and to play only my main.

I also think now that the Anet promises of “no level progression” are bs. Yeah, you don’t need to rise from 80 to 85 as in other games; literaly they said the truth. But in the spirit, they broke their promises: HoT really demands you to level your character up to 160, because you need ~ the same amount of points to fully unlock your spec as your whole vanilla traits and skills. And for each toon.

The same with forcing players to abandon dungeons and doing fractals/raids instead: fractals requiere ascended gear and insfusions; ascended gear is expensive, and is a mandatory gear checking. This will not longer be a “affordable game for newbies”.

You save up to buy your dream car. You buy it primarily because it has features that are much better than your current car. Three days before you receive your spanking new joy ride the manufacturer contacts you by email (well after the refund date has expired) and tells you that several of its best features (the most desirable ones) will only become available once you have driven it for 20K miles. I would totally understand why those customers were not happy with the manufacturer, or indeed the car.

Vayne.8563:

Making quests for each unlock though? Too time consuming. It’s not worth the cost. You may not like it but part of running a big project like this is cost analysis. Sure every single thing in the game would be much better accompanied by a full story. But who’s going to pay for that?

Not, for every unlock. Something like the start area when you create a new character, that in the end of the quest will grand you and you friends, the traits and skills for your specialisation. Beyond that, if you want the skins and cosmetics belonging to your specialisation you can add time gated content.

You do not have to reinvent the wheel. You just have to spread the resources you have effectively. And to tie the new specialisation to Hero-points is poor choice in my opinion. And as is said on my previous post 2 things will happen upon HoT release.

1. Hero Points trains will be formed rushing through maps.

2. EOTM – Trains will be formed to farm the 200 WvW ranks and 6000 badges needed.

Regards

Seed

antonbalboa.7280:

What I don’t really like is the way they always release content. As I can understand some people may be hyped about the jungle/new PVE content, I can also understand another points of view that are not in the same direction.

For example, WvW and PvP players. I don’t know but I think no one said that Hero Points will be obtained in PvP (or if you need them to play specialization in PvP). In that case PvP players will be forced to play PVE or WvW to get them.

Then in the case of PVE and WvW, there is always a big difference and unbalance between the rewards in between these 2. In PVE, you are going to get 10 Hero Points per each you get in the jungle. On the other hand in WvW you will be getting 1 by 1, so it will make much much slower getting hero points in WvW than in PVE. My complain is that, why is there always much more rewardings (in all kind of things) in PVE that in another game modes? Why is always PVE above everything else?

In PvP you get everything for free. In WvW it depends on which item you buy. It is 1:10 for HoT hp unlock or 1:1 for Tyria per rank. In PvE you need to do 20-40 hero challenges if you want to unlock traits/skills + skins.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

For players rolling new characters, just be conservative with the utility skill unlocks and go do 10-15 hero challenges in the core game.

You can not though. They already stated you need full unlocks.

Before the datamine of 170 I just routinely unlocked everything. You got exactly how many points you needed at 80. That was a pretty big hint they wanted you to unlock everything. I have only rolled one character since then and was as stingy with the points as possible. My plan was to buy the elite then go back and fill in as much of the other traits as I could after deciding what trait lines I was going to use.