Guild Wars 2

this week’s can of worms might not had been a big deal, now we had an “announced” launch date, I really can’t see how anyone can finish building the game, even with the initial “reduced” feature without working themselves to death in time of the (unrealistic) launch date.

can it be done?

When they first announced HoT, I could have sworn that they said that they have been working on it since GW2 first launched or something, and they decided to keep it as their main focus with S1 of the LS being their side focus (which is why it turned out so bad). I might have misinterpreted it though.

What’s the can of worms?

Why do you think what you see is all they have ready now? They’ve stated multiple times they’re limiting our access to the game to prevent it from spoiling the fun of launch and exploration with non-beta characters.

Mo mo’s right. They announced what, 3 new maps and a raid. You haven’t even seen very much at all yet. Really, this is about testing the classes and maybe getting a feel for the new events.

no, their problem isn’t with the new map or raid, that is the problem. they have to cancel the raid because it broke the main game. and when that happens it is ALOT of work to do. you have to test everything again and it is a nightmare scenario for game development. you would rather want stuff in your NEW CONTENT to break because that is easy to fix.

Mo Mo.1947:

What’s the can of worms?

Why do you think what you see is all they have ready now? They’ve stated multiple times they’re limiting our access to the game to prevent it from spoiling the fun of launch and exploration with non-beta characters.

If they put broken things into their beta its due to one of two things: Either the broken stuff is the best they have to show us, or they are just slacking off with the initial testing of the most recently developed content and decided they’d let us do their testing for them. I think its the second one. Which is a total kitten move.

First of all, the raid content that people got to see wasn’t that impressive. Secondly, Everything broke within an hour of the beta starting. It ranged from came crashes to UI not working properly. If i remember correctly, FIVE patches occurred yesterday after the beta went live, non of which fixed the Raid system — THE HIGH POINT OF THIS BETA --

I have also been on edge about Anet’s workload to release date ratio. 9 months of no content, and I am certain they have been working on HoT way before they announced it, and everything they have released since then has been complete crap with bugs up the bum hole. The mordrem invasion (first content after the 9 months) was bugged so much and contained virtually no rewards, which caused people to lose interest and miss out on the S1 rewards. The balance update and other updates also had so many bugs in them that they had to disable some skills and features in the game. Now this last beta is completely broken and everything they do to fix it, makes it worse.

Now, let me tell you about the future. Anet staff has announced that HoT and Halloween will be launched at the same time. HoT will have sooo much content, a lot of which isnt even completed yet. They also said on the gw2 forums that More halloween skins from the past and new skins and content will be added. Halloween will be held in LA – which is a different LA than previous halloweens took place in, meaning Halloween has to be redone on this map. 20 days left till Launch, So much content that isnt completed and hast been tested, so much work to do, so much doubt that it will be ready.

What happens if it isnt ready?? Will they postpone the HoT release and let loose the Horrors of Halloween to occupy our time and tempers? Or.. will they use this beta strategy by disabling most of the HoT that isnt done and Release the xpac anyway? But, these could just be the delusions of a mad king and everything could turn out ok. Only time will tell

gamerinachair.4057:

When they first announced HoT, I could have sworn that they said that they have been working on it since GW2 first launched or something, and they decided to keep it as their main focus with S1 of the LS being their side focus (which is why it turned out so bad). I might have misinterpreted it though.

I thought they said under no uncertain circumstances that LS was how they wanted to push their content. To be different to other games, but it was badly implemented and people didn’t stick to it, essentially an expansion something they’ve repeatedly said they were not interested in doing came about.

i am actually ok with the new content. it is different but different doesn’t mean it is bad. I am more concern with integration, as with development, the team will be concentrating on testing the new map and content, why it break apart is when they try these update onto the existing world.

anyway my point is, I don’t think their workload is just building content for the expansion, they have to rebuild part of the old game that they broke, and gw2 is a BIG kitten GAME. I am sure the beta helps, but to undertake a debugging mission of a game the size of gw2 in 1 month? I feel for the people working on this game. people don’t really realized how difficult this is to pull off.

Sicarius.4639:

gamerinachair.4057:

When they first announced HoT, I could have sworn that they said that they have been working on it since GW2 first launched or something, and they decided to keep it as their main focus with S1 of the LS being their side focus (which is why it turned out so bad). I might have misinterpreted it though.

I thought they said under no uncertain circumstances that LS was how they wanted to push their content. To be different to other games, but it was badly implemented and people didn’t stick to it, essentially an expansion something they’ve repeatedly said they were not interested in doing came about.

Pretty much that. A traditional expansion was not in their initial design. People didn’t respond well to the living story and temporary content so they switched plans.

Novamatrix.2569

If they put broken things into their beta its due to one of two things: Either the broken stuff is the best they have to show us, or they are just slacking off with the initial testing of the most recently developed content and decided they’d let us do their testing for them. I think its the second one. Which is a total kitten move.

First of all, the raid content that people got to see wasn’t that impressive. Secondly, Everything broke within an hour of the beta starting. It ranged from came crashes to UI not working properly. If i remember correctly, FIVE patches occurred yesterday after the beta went live, non of which fixed the Raid system — THE HIGH POINT OF THIS BETA --

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3n9pgw/raidstemporarilyoffline/

[–]IsaiahCartwright 64 points 20 hours ago

As it is with most systems like this the issues always become apparent at scale. Which is why we push to test them in BWE’s

What part of Beta is everyone missing? That is why you have Betas, so that you can find and fix bugs. We had a Beta, we found bugs, and now they know that they need fixed.

How would you feel if they didn’t have Betas and that had been the live release instead? Then we would have the live release, of the expansion, bugs included.

Take a chill pill and cut Anet some slack. They are doing thier job they just need everyone to ease up and let them do it. And keep sending them feedback so that they have the info that they need.

Novamatrix.2569:

If they put broken things into their beta its due to one of two things: Either the broken stuff is the best they have to show us, or they are just slacking off with the initial testing of the most recently developed content and decided they’d let us do their testing for them. I think its the second one. Which is a total kitten move.

Hold up. You DO realise that this is LITERALLY a beta test.

Literally.

As in things are still in development? As in Arenanet intentionally and specifically has mentioned that this is not a preview of upcoming content, but an actual, full fledged beta test where we’re actually TESTING the content before it’s release? You know? Like any actual beta test should be?

Is the idea that something might wind up broken because it’s beta too bizarre an idea for you because arenanet actually understands the meaning of a beta test and wants players to actively test what they are showing us?

Because the way you phrased that, it seems like you’re expecting a fully completed area with no bugs whatsoever in a beta test that is actually supposed to test content and see if it’s broken.

Just letting you know. Beta is beta. Not final product.

Novamatrix.2569:

If they put broken things into their beta its due to one of two things: Either the broken stuff is the best they have to show us, or they are just slacking off with the initial testing of the most recently developed content and decided they’d let us do their testing for them. I think its the second one. Which is a total kitten move.

Someone has absolutely no idea what “Beta” actually means.

When you know that they didn’t even beta test the entirety of the first mini-map, the other 3 mini-maps, the raid’s wing minus the first 3 trashs, yes you can be worried when the launch of the dlc is 20 days ahead.

Agrotera.1254:

What part of Beta is everyone missing? That is why you have Betas, so that you can find and fix bugs. We had a Beta, we found bugs, and now they know that they need fixed.

How would you feel if they didn’t have Betas and that had been the live release instead? Then we would have the live release, of the expansion, bugs included.

And then you realize that what we have tested is but a fraction of the content available at release, and that even the content that has been tested is becoming more broken, not less (see the “bug” with the difficulty right now).

What do you think is the state of the untested, unseen until now content?

Because you either think that the beta was really about testing the game for bugs, and so the fact we have found a massive amount of bugs on the content we have tested means the rest of the content – the part we won’t see until release – is massively bugged as well…

…Or you think that the beta wasn’t really about testing the game for bugs, since the majority of HoT won’t be tested, and thus that all the bugs we are seeing at the beta are stuff ArenaNet didn’t think we would still find. Which, again, shows how bugged the rest of the content must be.

Really, it’s a lose/lose situation here.

Seriously, people, learn the difference between beta testing on live servers and QA testing inhouse. One deals with integration of content into live servers.(something no other mmo does before launch, resulting in terrible launches) One deals with testing the content internally to make sure everything works as intended. You are not a better QA tester then the QA testers, believe me. You are there in this beta purely to get feedback on the general first map (wich can be used to adjust and tweak other maps) and to stress test the map in general.

Beta’s are still in beta, i know weird right. You get to participate in the beta, because you prepurchased, however that does not entitle you to anything other then that.
As someone who did QA for some small games before, you have no clue when you say this game hasn’t been tested properly.

This was a messy Beta weekend due to things responding badly to the live environment, not due to inproper testing of the content (even the difficulty was not as intended and bugged). Now you can choose, have this now, or have this at launch like every other mmo.
(GW2 launch, if i may remind you, went perfectly fine even if the later maps did not see any live testing, most people still call it the smoothest mmo launch up to date)

In short: You guys are not QA testers, stop pretending that you are.

Test.8734:

Agrotera.1254:

What part of Beta is everyone missing? That is why you have Betas, so that you can find and fix bugs. We had a Beta, we found bugs, and now they know that they need fixed.

How would you feel if they didn’t have Betas and that had been the live release instead? Then we would have the live release, of the expansion, bugs included.

And then you realize that what we have tested is but a fraction of the content available at release, and that even the content that has been tested is becoming more broken, not less (see the “bug” with the difficulty right now).

What do you think is the state of the untested, unseen until now content?

Because you either think that the beta was really about testing the game for bugs, and so the fact we have found a massive amount of bugs on the content we have tested means the rest of the content – the part we won’t see until release – is massively bugged as well…

…Or you think that the beta wasn’t really about testing the game for bugs, since the majority of HoT won’t be tested, and thus that all the bugs we are seeing at the beta are stuff ArenaNet didn’t think we would still find. Which, again, shows how bugged the rest of the content must be.

Really, it’s a lose/lose situation here.

It’s also 3 weeks till launch, and a lot is broken. Combine that with the rush job on druids, and it’s looking sketchy. Maybe it’ll be amazing and everything will be fine. /sarcasm

MashMash.1645:

It’s also 3 weeks till launch, and a lot is broken. Combine that with the rush job on druids, and it’s looking sketchy. Maybe it’ll be amazing and everything will be fine. /sarcasm

This is why you shouldn’t pre-order

MashMash.1645:

Test.8734:

Agrotera.1254:

What part of Beta is everyone missing? That is why you have Betas, so that you can find and fix bugs. We had a Beta, we found bugs, and now they know that they need fixed.

How would you feel if they didn’t have Betas and that had been the live release instead? Then we would have the live release, of the expansion, bugs included.

And then you realize that what we have tested is but a fraction of the content available at release, and that even the content that has been tested is becoming more broken, not less (see the “bug” with the difficulty right now).

What do you think is the state of the untested, unseen until now content?

Because you either think that the beta was really about testing the game for bugs, and so the fact we have found a massive amount of bugs on the content we have tested means the rest of the content – the part we won’t see until release – is massively bugged as well…

…Or you think that the beta wasn’t really about testing the game for bugs, since the majority of HoT won’t be tested, and thus that all the bugs we are seeing at the beta are stuff ArenaNet didn’t think we would still find. Which, again, shows how bugged the rest of the content must be.

Really, it’s a lose/lose situation here.

It’s also 3 weeks till launch, and a lot is broken. Combine that with the rush job on druids, and it’s looking sketchy. Maybe it’ll be amazing and everything will be fine. /sarcasm

Strange, me and my guild had a great time in the beta. To each his own I guess.

" One deals with integration of content into live servers.(something no other mmo does before launch, resulting in terrible launches) "

Yes, but this is also apparently their reason for not having a public test server, like just about every other non-NCSoft MMO does. Which results in…

Dovienya.6597:

" One deals with integration of content into live servers.(something no other mmo does before launch, resulting in terrible launches) "

Yes, but this is also apparently their reason for not having a public test server, like just about every other non-NCSoft MMO does. Which results in…

Which results in people not learning how to exploit everything before it launches and everyone being on an even footing. Oh and story spoilers not getting out prematurely.

redacted

DistantStatic.6098:

MashMash.1645:

It’s also 3 weeks till launch, and a lot is broken. Combine that with the rush job on druids, and it’s looking sketchy. Maybe it’ll be amazing and everything will be fine. /sarcasm

This is why you shouldn’t pre-order

Exactly. Preordering is basically telling everone that it is ok to charge for beta testing(which was free all the time) and that people are stupid enough to buy your stuff despite lack of knowlegde about content and! Information what you need for said content. The first thing still kind of surprised me, the second fact was only a sad confirmation of what I already knew from other electronical devices like mobiles..

Nobody is asking to know everything about every detail but a general sketch is not asked for too much if you ask me. And no “Soon” “When it is ready” “We´re so excited!” are not release dates, not even blurry ones, but simply a candy coated way for saying that what they had was neither sufficient nor attractive enough to not be hanged at the next tree.

Agrotera.1254:

What part of Beta is everyone missing? That is why you have Betas, so that you can find and fix bugs. We had a Beta, we found bugs, and now they know that they need fixed.

Yeah. And they have what, 3 weeks and no further betas to fix everything, when they haven’t tested extensively many things yet? Testing of raids was, for example, scheduled for this beta. It didn’t happen, because raids were accessible for a total of maybe an hour, in short intervals between it being disabled due to bugs not tied directly to raids at all.

Agrotera.1254:

How would you feel if they didn’t have Betas and that had been the live release instead? Then we would have the live release, of the expansion, bugs included.

Good question. You realize, that’s exactly what we’re going to get in 3 weeks?

The problem isn’t that the things broke in beta. The problem is that release date is 3 weeks away, and the game still seems to be in early beta stages.

They said originally that they will keep having betas until they are satisfied everything is working okay and ready for launch. It’s clear, that they didn’t follow that at all.

So, basically, it seems we should prepare for several months of “live testing” after release before all the major bugs are ironed out (on second thought, make that “most of the major bugs”, considering the glacial bugfixing schedule of this game so far).

Most vets from the GW2 beta may remember how things were from the launch and how till to the very day we still see ancient things getting fixed, we can prepare for that again thats for sure but i would not consider it serious its very common these days in all games game breaking things are always fixed fast and minor things when time / resources allow it.

Gotta wait and see how raw the food will be ^^ ( lil ketchup should fix the taste a bit)

This is the classic MPS symptoms. Miracle Patch Syndrome, or MPS affects nearly all MMO gamers. They are sure that it is “just beta” and we are “actually testing”, when in actuality, real beta testing hasn’t happened in 10+ years. What you are doing is previewing the game. What you see is what you get once you are within a month of launch. The closest approximation to an actual beta test we got was BWE 1.

There is no miracle patch just around the corner that will fix all the issues and make everything better. If you liked what you saw this beta weekend then you will be fine. There will be no magic fix to everything between now and launch. Remember we only have seen 10% of the HoT content, that means they still have 90% of the content to work on. The 10% that they show us is considered “final” with the ideas and feedback they learned from this 10% going to help them finish the other 90%

lagrangewei.8516:

this week’s can of worms might not had been a big deal, now we had an “announced” launch date, I really can’t see how anyone can finish building the game, even with the initial “reduced” feature without working themselves to death in time of the (unrealistic) launch date.

can it be done?

Ha, Ha. I love this. I build software for a living and can tell you this is our mandate. Complete an inordinate amount of coding in too short a time-frame. It’s par for the course.

How do we get it done? Lots of overtime, and a good paycheck!

Still no answer on what the can of worms is that OP is talking about. So I have no idea what to answer her/him. Can ArenaNet release HoT in 3 weeks time? Yes, definitely. If something goes really wrong they can disable some stuff and release it later. HoT isn’t only the content on release date, HoT is all the content we get the next few years (well, without the holiday content). ArenaNet may have made a expansion, I see no signs that they abandoned the road of regular content updates (Living World).

The biggest concern I have is that some of the existing features (in the base game) will stop working. Breaking the squad system is the reason they had to cancel testing raids. And not only breaking it for raids, but breaking squads in general. There are more features that are going to change in HoT, for example Guild Missions. I hope the transition from base game to HoT will go smoothly. I am less concerned about some of the new stuff not working. There will be bugs in the new content, but hopefully not many new bugs in the content of the base game.

Rose Solane.1027:

HoT isn’t only the content on release date, HoT is all the content we get the next few years (well, without the holiday content). ArenaNet may have made a expansion, I see no signs that they abandoned the road of regular content updates (Living World).

Ah, ok. So you think people should overlook the bugged mess that HoT is right now because of a vague promise of undefined content to be release in an unspecificied amount of time?

Sure, sure. Perfectly reasonable.

Test.8734:

Rose Solane.1027:

HoT isn’t only the content on release date, HoT is all the content we get the next few years (well, without the holiday content). ArenaNet may have made a expansion, I see no signs that they abandoned the road of regular content updates (Living World).

Ah, ok. So you think people should overlook the bugged mess that HoT is right now because of a vague promise of undefined content to be release in an unspecificied amount of time?

Sure, sure. Perfectly reasonable.

Maybe you should look up what a ‘Beta Test’ is. There is a reason these events are happening. To sort out bugs before the lunch and to be honest, literally all MMOs nowadays launch with bugs that get fixed over the weeks after lunch – that’s how these games work. If you don’t want any bugs, then don’t play Beta events and wait like 1 month after launch before you start playing.

Fact is, they did say we will get Living Story back sometime after HoT which will continue right after the story of HoT.

Chris.5720:

There is a reason these events are happening. To sort out bugs before the lunch

So, are you saying that, since ArenaNet has only beta tested part of HoT, the rest of the expansion will be a bug filled mess?

Chris.5720:

and to be honest, literally all MMOs nowadays launch with bugs that get fixed over the weeks after lunch – that’s how these games work.

Sounds to me less like that’s how MMOs work and more like how MMO players are willing to accept low quality standards. But then again, looks like there are less and less MMO players every day.

Chris.5720:

Fact is, they did say we will get Living Story back sometime after HoT which will continue right after the story of HoT.

Do you know how much content will be released through the Living Story?

Do you know when the Living Story episodes will be released?

Do you honestly think those vague promises are worth overlooking how flawed everything we have seen of HoT currently is? Specially considering ArenaNet’s track records of broken promises?

Test.8734:

Rose Solane.1027:

HoT isn’t only the content on release date, HoT is all the content we get the next few years (well, without the holiday content). ArenaNet may have made a expansion, I see no signs that they abandoned the road of regular content updates (Living World).

Ah, ok. So you think people should overlook the bugged mess that HoT is right now because of a vague promise of undefined content to be release in an unspecificied amount of time?

Sure, sure. Perfectly reasonable.

Hot isn’t a bugged mess right now. I played through the events. The raid was certainly buggy, but the game itself isn’t a bugged mess. You just want people to think that for some personal agenda. It’s about what I’d expect for an MMO these days just before release.

Of course it’ll have issues. But that doesn’t make it unplayable. Certainly not for me. Me and my guild had quite a bit of fun in the area we’ve been given for this BWE. That you can’t, for some reason, have fun in it, I would suggest that’s your own issue.

Considering how often you hammer this game, I’m not surprised you didn’t like HoT either. I like the game and I thought HoT was a nice addition to it.

Vayne.8563:

It’s about what I’d expect for an MMO these days

Sadly, this statement is exactly true about GW2 now. It has devolved into just another commonplace MMO with all the standard cliches, with little to differentiate itself.

It’s fun to watch people making all sorts of assumptions about the state of the game based on what we’ve seen in BETA. We can say that some things were so badly bugged this weekend that they were disabled; we can also say that the vast majority of things were working as intended, including 10 new professions (well, 9 elite specs with new mechanics and weapons, and one actual new prof).

It’s entirely possible to have a flawless BETA and a terrible launch or vice versa. I will wait to see which sort of launch we have before passing judgment.

MagicalSilence.1837:

Most vets from the GW2 beta may remember how things were from the launch and how till to the very day we still see ancient things getting fixed, we can prepare for that again thats for sure but i would not consider it serious its very common these days in all games game breaking things are always fixed fast and minor things when time / resources allow it.

Gotta wait and see how raw the food will be ^^ ( lil ketchup should fix the taste a bit)

LOL yeah I remember and was going to post the same thing

I’ve always assumed it was going to be released unfinished like most all online games nowadays and further developed later. :|

No one actually ever really finishes things anymoar. That would be silly.