Guild Wars 2

What do you guys think of the mechanics anet implemented for the lake doric leather farm in the hills?

What mechanics? You go up in a zerg spamming autoattack.

I mean evading constantly the trebuchet shots. :P

Well, it definitely doesn’t make that area any more appealing, that’s for sure.

The “leather farm” was fail before the engis found a way to make it tolerable. So Anet made the engi solution more difficult. If Anet makes it impossible for engis to FARM THE LEATHER, I predict the “leather farm” will go back to being fail.

Djinn.9245:

The “leather farm” was fail before the engis found a way to make it tolerable. So Anet made the engi solution more difficult. If Anet makes it impossible for engis to FARM THE LEATHER, I predict the “leather farm” will go back to being fail.

Leather farm produces more leather from time spent than elsewhere in the game. The farm is only effective if anough players do it but the farm does work if they do. Unfortunately players chose to farm gold elsewhere, which had a higher G/hr output (understandable), so not many did the leather farm.

It’s a mess. They need to come up with a way to negate or reduce the efforts of AFK-farmers, but not clobber the active players. Their first attempt was a good idea, but it’s overkill.

If they really want the farm to work. make the number of enemies equal to the number of player characters in the immediate area (i.e. within longbow range). Then, upgrade a percentage to veterans, elites, and champions to make it more challenging.

Right now, you have to have a large group in order to do anything at all up the trail. And, such groups became non-existent with the AFK farm in production. Nerfing that was needed badly. But, they somewhat overdid it.

sadly we would not need a leather farm if they just get rid of the patch items.

ZerotheFang.5890:

sadly we would not need a leather farm if they just get rid of the patch items.

Yes, I wish that Anet themselves hadn’t made a leather farm necessary in the first place.

Personally, I felt that the leather farm failed because it didn’t give players the ability to DIRECTLY farm the leather they needed. (Mainly, Hardened leather.) Nobody likes having to go through RNG after a farm to see if you MAYBE get the item you need.

ZerotheFang.5890:

sadly we would not need a leather farm if they just get rid of the patch items.

The patches, in concept, are fine – They secure Leather’s value in crafting, just as Plated Dowels secure the value of Wood and Metal. The problem is:
1. Leather and cloth share an acquisition method.
2. Leather drops and salvages at half the rate of Cloth after its droprate and salvage rates were nerfed.
3. Leather, while being acquired at half the speed of cloth, being in much higher demand than cloth (10 refined leather for every 4 refined cloth), also refined at a lower rate than Cloth (3 instead of 2, 4 instead of 3).

Pre-HoT, Leather was worthless while Cloth was expensive, because cloth was required for all armors, but Leather was only required for Medium Armor, boots, and bows – very low demand. You had to spend cloth to spend leather, and cloth was spent much more frequently than leather while having the same acquisition method and rate. Post-HoT, that was reversed. Now leather is stupidly expensive, while cloth is the cheapest of the four materials (Linings keep it from dropping to vendor trash like Leather used to be.)

Zaxares.5419:

Personally, I felt that the leather farm failed because it didn’t give players the ability to DIRECTLY farm the leather they needed. (Mainly, Hardened leather.) Nobody likes having to go through RNG after a farm to see if you MAYBE get the item you need.

Actually, that’s not true. If they had created a hardened-only farm, it would have had the drop rate about the same as it does now. So, players would only receive hardened scraps occasionally, and nothing the rest of the time.

What they did is fill out the rest of the salvages with other kinds of leather.

So, the solution would be to simply change the ratio, if the farm were the only change made. (Other ideas above are better, however.)

Zaxares.5419:

Personally, I felt that the leather farm failed because it didn’t give players the ability to DIRECTLY farm the leather they needed. (Mainly, Hardened leather.) Nobody likes having to go through RNG after a farm to see if you MAYBE get the item you need.

I would argue that people need mainly thick leather and not hard leather.

Daddicus.6128:

Actually, that’s not true. If they had created a hardened-only farm, it would have had the drop rate about the same as it does now. So, players would only receive hardened scraps occasionally, and nothing the rest of the time.

What they did is fill out the rest of the salvages with other kinds of leather.

So, the solution would be to simply change the ratio, if the farm were the only change made. (Other ideas above are better, however.)

Well, that would depend on how exactly they made the leather farm work, I suppose. I think it would have had better results if, instead, the Centaur boss at the top of the Watchtower was changed to a sort of world boss-style encounter. Each day, you receive an item similar to the Hero chests from the HoT metas from which you can pick a “Large Bundle of X Leather” of the tier you need. The random centaurs you kill going up the slopes still drop their Bloodwarped Hides, but this way, they are no longer the primary source of the leather you require.

@Wanze: I suppose if you vastly increased the supply of Thick Leather, you could then transmute it to Hardened Leather through the Forge, so yes, I guess you’re right.

They would still be the primary source as they’re not restricted with a daily timegate. Adding the daily reward structure of the HoT meta maps with the selector chest wouldn’t impact much compared to if those players had farmed instead.

Zaxares.5419:

Well, that would depend on how exactly they made the leather farm work, I suppose. I think it would have had better results if, instead, the Centaur boss at the top of the Watchtower was changed to a sort of world boss-style encounter. Each day, you receive an item similar to the Hero chests from the HoT metas from which you can pick a “Large Bundle of X Leather” of the tier you need. The random centaurs you kill going up the slopes still drop their Bloodwarped Hides, but this way, they are no longer the primary source of the leather you require.

@Wanze: I suppose if you vastly increased the supply of Thick Leather, you could then transmute it to Hardened Leather through the Forge, so yes, I guess you’re right.

Agreed. There are many ways they could make this work, but nearly all of them could have unforeseen consequences.

Daddicus.6128:

Agreed. There are many ways they could make this work, but nearly all of them could have unforeseen consequences.

It’s not like the current version didn’t, and those were mostly negative ones at that.

Astralporing.1957:

It’s not like the current version didn’t, and those were mostly negative ones at that.

Oh, absolutely. I’m more lobbying for small changes next time they make changes.

Daddicus.6128:

Astralporing.1957:

It’s not like the current version didn’t, and those were mostly negative ones at that.

Oh, absolutely. I’m more lobbying for small changes next time they make changes.

Always better to use a chisel over a sledgehammer.

Ayrilana.1396:

Daddicus.6128:

Astralporing.1957:

It’s not like the current version didn’t, and those were mostly negative ones at that.

Oh, absolutely. I’m more lobbying for small changes next time they make changes.

Always better to use a chisel over a sledgehammer.

^ nicely put :p

Zaxares.5419:

Daddicus.6128:

Actually, that’s not true. If they had created a hardened-only farm, it would have had the drop rate about the same as it does now. So, players would only receive hardened scraps occasionally, and nothing the rest of the time.

What they did is fill out the rest of the salvages with other kinds of leather.

So, the solution would be to simply change the ratio, if the farm were the only change made. (Other ideas above are better, however.)

Well, that would depend on how exactly they made the leather farm work, I suppose. I think it would have had better results if, instead, the Centaur boss at the top of the Watchtower was changed to a sort of world boss-style encounter. Each day, you receive an item similar to the Hero chests from the HoT metas from which you can pick a “Large Bundle of X Leather” of the tier you need. The random centaurs you kill going up the slopes still drop their Bloodwarped Hides, but this way, they are no longer the primary source of the leather you require.

@Wanze: I suppose if you vastly increased the supply of Thick Leather, you could then transmute it to Hardened Leather through the Forge, so yes, I guess you’re right.

No, I meant that most players at end game will spend more gold on t5 leather than t6 because ascended gear doesnt really need t6 leather at all but huge amounts of t5 leather. And the droprates from bloodstone-warped hides reflects that.

The droprate of t6 leather from unstable hides (LS3 event rewards and drops from white mantle) is considerably higher.

I think its great that these salvage items drop all tiers of mats because it means you can finally farm lower tier common mats in lvl 80 maps and dont have to use unintended workarounds like forging karma gloves for linen or opening champ bags on lower tier alts.

I dont think we should give that convenience up just for a higher droprate of t6 leather.

Wanze.8410:

No, I meant that most players at end game will spend more gold on t5 leather than t6 because ascended gear doesnt really need t6 leather at all but huge amounts of t5 leather.

For the most players however t5 likely doesn’t need to be bought at all. It’s the other tiers that are in short supply.

Personally, i have never enough of t2,t3,t4,t6, but my bank slot for t5 skins is always full. I don’t need more of those at all.

It’s the t2,t3,t4 that are a chokepoint for ascended armor crafting, and it’s t6 that is required for insignias for stat switching. t5 is almost never an issue.

Wanze.8410:

The droprate of t6 leather from unstable hides (LS3 event rewards and drops from white mantle) is considerably higher.

Yes, those have a much better tier salvage ratios than bloodstone hides. Unfortunately, the farm area is probably the worst place on the map to get them (well, lake doric in general is not the best place to farm those)

Astralporing.1957:

Personally, i have never enough of t2,t3,t4,t6, but my bank slot for t5 skins is always full. I don’t need more of those at all.

It’s the t2,t3,t4 that are a chokepoint for ascended armor crafting, and it’s t6 that is required for insignias for stat switching. t5 is almost never an issue.

Well, for me it’s like Wanze said, T5 Thick Leather is what I have to buy every day. I rarely buy Hardened Leather. I don’t craft ascended armor atm, but keep doing the daily ectoplasm refinements, and I need a lot of Silk Scraps and Thick Leather for that, more than I farm. While Silk is cheap, Thick Leather is quite expensive. Not as expensive per piece as Hardened Leather, but since I burn through 200 a day, my total expenses are much higher on it.

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

No, I meant that most players at end game will spend more gold on t5 leather than t6 because ascended gear doesnt really need t6 leather at all but huge amounts of t5 leather.

For the most players however t5 likely doesn’t need to be bought at all. It’s the other tiers that are in short supply.

Personally, i have never enough of t2,t3,t4,t6, but my bank slot for t5 skins is always full. I don’t need more of those at all.

It’s the t2,t3,t4 that are a chokepoint for ascended armor crafting, and it’s t6 that is required for insignias for stat switching. t5 is almost never an issue.

Wanze.8410:

The droprate of t6 leather from unstable hides (LS3 event rewards and drops from white mantle) is considerably higher.

Yes, those have a much better tier salvage ratios than bloodstone hides. Unfortunately, the farm area is probably the worst place on the map to get them (well, lake doric in general is not the best place to farm those)

Well, for long time veterans like us, t6 leather is more of a concern because we usually already have all the ascended sets we need and just switch their stats around.

The exotic insignia we need for that is still considered exotic crafting and not ascended.

I was more referring to end game players that are working on their first couple of ascended sets.

Long time veterans already got a huge QoL when Anet introduced stat switching, so I am fine with the ~100g it costs, otherwise we wouldnt be paying anything anymore in terms of gear acquisition, which would widen the wealth gap between newer players and veterans.

I dont think economic policy should be geared towards long term veterans.

But if you are working on your first ascended sets, t5 leather currently makes up more than 50% of the material costs for a medium set and more than 25% for light and heavy sets, so its the top expense for all three.

I doubt that most regular players earn enough t5 leather directly to craft one spool of elonian cord per day (200 sections).

Since the wvw update, prices for t5 leather already rose by 50% (from 1.5s to 2.25s), which also made medium ascended armor obtained through grandmaster leatherworker marks 25% more expensive. Yet you dont hear anybody complain about it and the general focus is on the price of t6 leather.

If you personally have more need for t6 leather than t5 and t5 keeps piling up in your storage, this is indeed good news for you as well.
Because from the gold you get from selling your t5 leather, you can now buy 50% more t6 leather on the market than a month ago, which is a huge difference.

Wanze.8410:

I doubt that most regular players earn enough t5 leather directly to craft one spool of elonian cord per day (200 sections).

They still likely earn t5 at a rate fast enough compared to t2,t3,t4 that they can make elonian cords faster than convert those cords to squares. It’s that conversion part that will hold them more than availability of cords.

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

I doubt that most regular players earn enough t5 leather directly to craft one spool of elonian cord per day (200 sections).

They still likely earn t5 at a rate fast enough compared to t2,t3,t4 that they can make elonian cords faster than convert those cords to squares. It’s that conversion part that will hold them more than availability of cords.

I disagree. The Blended Leather Sheet, which is used for the grandmaster marks instead of Elonian Leather Squares, uses 50% less t2-4 leather but 130% more t5 leather, so Anet considerably tilted mat requirements for ascended armor crafting away from t2-4 and towards t5.

Right now, a grandmaster leatherworker mark costs around 18.5g in materials on buy order and 9.3g are for t5 leather only, t2-4 only costs you 2.2g. It also has become less of a hassle for end game players to earn t2-4 leather directly, since the first episode of LS3 (introduction of unstable hides) and especially episode 4 (blood-stone warped hides).

Wanze.8410:

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

I doubt that most regular players earn enough t5 leather directly to craft one spool of elonian cord per day (200 sections).

They still likely earn t5 at a rate fast enough compared to t2,t3,t4 that they can make elonian cords faster than convert those cords to squares. It’s that conversion part that will hold them more than availability of cords.

I disagree. The Blended Leather Sheet, which is used for the grandmaster marks instead of Elonian Leather Squares, uses 50% less t2-4 leather but 130% more t5 leather, so Anet considerably tilted mat requirements for ascended armor crafting away from t2-4 and towards t5.

Those require also special content currency on top of marks. Getting this currency again will likely take longer than getting t5.

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

Astralporing.1957:

Wanze.8410:

I doubt that most regular players earn enough t5 leather directly to craft one spool of elonian cord per day (200 sections).

They still likely earn t5 at a rate fast enough compared to t2,t3,t4 that they can make elonian cords faster than convert those cords to squares. It’s that conversion part that will hold them more than availability of cords.

I disagree. The Blended Leather Sheet, which is used for the grandmaster marks instead of Elonian Leather Squares, uses 50% less t2-4 leather but 130% more t5 leather, so Anet considerably tilted mat requirements for ascended armor crafting away from t2-4 and towards t5.

Those require also special content currency on top of marks. Getting this currency again will likely take longer than getting t5.

Not sure why you bring up the special content currencies, as they have no influence on the ratio between t5 and lower tier leather for grandmaster marks but lets have a look anyways.

For the 1200 ascended shards of glory you need for a full set of ascended armor, you need to repeat the byzantum reward track 8 times in 20 days in pvp, as there are no daily timegates involved, this isnt an issue. However, getting 9200 t5 leather sections (460 per day) for the medium set through pvp rewards will be quite a challenge imho.

The 88 fractal research pages can be obtained in 22 days, so you got 2 more days to earn your 9200 sections and only need 418 per day. This amount isnt obtainable by daily fractal runs.

The wvw tickets have arguably the longest timegate on them. I can get the required 1310 tickets for a full set in 50 days due to the weekly timegate, so it comes down to 184 t5 sections per day. This might be doable, if your server has a good Kill/Death ratio and you run with the zerg. I will double check that today after reset and let you know, how many t5 leather i got after 4 hours (2 skirmishes).

Just some additional info on the grandmaster mark crafting/vendor system:

Tailor and Armorsmith Marks require an additional asc cloth/metal, while the leatherworker mark doesnt require an extra blended leather sheet, therefore the timegate on a light and heavy set is 40 days, not 20, unless you pay a premium on the tp for other peoples timegated mats.

Leather isnt only used for ascended armor but every weapons mark as well (1 each asc wood/metal/leather) and every huntsman weapon will require even more t5 leather for the weaponized cured thick leather square, so an asc torch will cost you 1080 thick leather sections.

When they introduced the grandmaster mark system a couple of months ago, I compared the material requirements (and prices) to craft 1 full set each of light/medium/heavy armor through the traditional crafting system and the grandmaster mark system, I attached my spreadsheet with the data. The material prices might be out of date so take them with a grain of salt but the volumes are still the same. With Grandmaster Marks, you need a total of 64200 thick leather/silk/mithril instead of 42700 but you only need 12200 t2-4 leather/cloth/metal instead of 18380.

So while your original statement I disagreed with (that t2-4 and t6 is the bottleneck, not t5) is true for traditional crafting, its a completely different story for the new grandmaster mark system. Taking the numbers from my spreadsheet, to craft 1 set each through traditional crafting, 48% of the material costs went into t2-4 and t6 common mats and only 30% into t5 common mats. For the grandmaster marks, 51% go into t5 mats and only 28% into t2-4 and t6.

Wanze.8410:

The wvw tickets have arguably the longest timegate on them. I can get the required 1310 tickets for a full set in 50 days due to the weekly timegate, so it comes down to 184 t5 sections per day. This might be doable, if your server has a good Kill/Death ratio and you run with the zerg. I will double check that today after reset and let you know, how many t5 leather i got after 4 hours (2 skirmishes).

Attached is a screenshot of my common material storage after 4 hours of wvw after reset on friday. Everything in that tab except the spools, flax fibre and seeds and pigments were earned through wvw.
For the first skirmish, i was on an enemy border and even though we had a zerg, enemy blobs outnumbered us and we didnt get too much kills and focussed on ppt. After nearly 2 hours my EB queue popped and i got more kills. After 4 hours, i had round 400 kills. I nearly completed a full hero weapon reward track and got around 350 reward pips.

All containers i got in the process were opened and all gear salvaged, except rare staves and gs and exotic weapons.

I ended up with 63 t5 leather, which is far from the 200 i need for my daily cooldown.

This farm was fine until the engineers took it over. It was done daily and often I know this because I’ve participated in it on multiple characters on multiple times of day, back when we used to run up the slope as intended.

The fact that people found a lazy way to do it, often unattended is why we can’t have nice things.