Guild Wars 2

Sry, I think renevant is just a big fail.

First the theme. Channeling legends sounds cool, but since there will not be so many legends (since this would be just skill overload…), I feel a bit like randomely picking some of the charakters with more background story. I mean Ventari, Shiro and Mallyx have for sure an important role, but there are tons of others (known ones like Varesh, The lich with background of being originally a human, Oola, Vekk, Zhed, Turai Ossa, Togo, Mhenlo, Ragnar, Rurik … and unknown ones) and I personally dont feel like having a profession able to channel legends, if the amount of legends is limited to 5 or so… For example to make it a Dervish to channel between gods and godlike creatures or a ritualist that channels between heros of their race (similar legends, only named different) would feel far better.

Furthermore the profession itself. The weapons and the swap mechanic might be pretty nice and can be a solid start for a new charakter, but the legends itself are a fail in my eyes. Shiro would be a great update for a thief, The great dwarf for guardian, Mallyx for Necromancer, also could be future Specializations for them. Only Ventari has a unique and original playstyle so far that gives really the feeling of swapping between legends. For Shiro as example, the jade wind and so fit great to the theme of Shiro, but do not really bring something new and unique. It resembles the thief a lot and by having only 5 unchangeable skills it feels a bit like a cheap excuse for a thief.

Something really cool would have been a profession that can channel between the existing professions, that give the core ideas of each profession to skills 6-10 by rather giving weapon-skill like utilitys instead of typical utilities including some mechanic skills. For example Mesmer-“legend” can create clones, but no phantasms, the heal heals for each clone, others create clones grant a buff that gives random conditions with attacks while draining energy and an interrupt and so on, but no stealth, no glammers, nothing too specific. In other words it cannot replace a mesmer in any way, but gives you its core elements to swiftly swap your playstyle during a battle. Of course Ele should get one legend per element and no idea what to do about the rangers pet. Elite Dpecialosations could be stuff like ritualist, Monk and paragon, since these clearly are own professions with own themes but bring not enough for a completely new profession.

BTW, since the renevant is what it is, why not move racial skills to him ti finally give them more love (since you can balance them as part of a profession)

If you don’t like Revenant don’t play it.

It was created as a homage to the original Guild Wars, bringing the great heroes and villains from that world back into the game. It also fills in a gap as being the 3rd soldier profession and borrows inspiration from the Ritualist/Dervish (channeling avatars, communing with the mists, et cetera). It’s purely here for nostalgia reasons, so of course it’s a love/hate thing, you’d have to be a veteran of the series to fully appreciate it I think, but it’s also about ‘completing a set’, now there’s 3 available professions in each armor category.

Giving legends to every profession? well, that wouldn’t make them feel unique anymore, it’d do exactly what DC Universe Online did, and force every character to be a parody or suckup to their chosen mentor, ever walking in their shadow. Revenant can pick and choose his inspiration at least, and isn’t bound to any single one.

It also does some interesting things with weapons, and while yes, I do think the other half of the skills are a little lacking and restricted, it’s supposed to play differently to the other classes.

You could easily say it isn’t needed, you don’t NEED many things in GW2, but if it means more ways to play then it’s a welcome addition.

The concept for the Revnant (both lore and mechanically) aren’t inherently bad. What is bad was the implementation, and stiff coupling of the weapons to specific Legends.

What many people were initially expecting, and hoping for, was the Legend channeling to play off the weapon skills, giving the Rev two, distinct playstyles that they could switch to on-demand. Like an effective cross between an Engineer and an Elementalist.

I akin this concept to the WoW Druid. They weren’t built as main roles, but when played creatively, are as good at specific roles as classes dedicated to them. In order this idea to work, there needs to be large degree of synergy between the 3 elements of weapons, utilities and traits. If successful, it would had been the perfect jack of all trades character, that could juggle multiple tasks within a group as needed. In short…. it would had represented everything the Guildwars 2 Game design has been said to innovate since its inception. All this without needing to copy the other class mechanics.

But unfortunately, it only fell deeper into the Trinity trap by making each potential role extremely rigid, and designing it to be paired with a specific weapon to reach its intended minimal functionality.

Honestly weapon swap ruined this class as it took away the unique aspect of what ele and engi brings. Now it will feel like a guard/war but with extra bar on 6-0. I also had hope for legends to act like weapons skills but in the end it all went wrong and now its simply too late.

Wow OP and skowcia are acting like they have been playing the class constantly since it’s conception. I was incredibly hyped for Revenant when it was announced, “channeling legends sounds amazing!”, I prepurchased the ultimate edition and eagerly awaited the first chance to try them out.

It sucked.

I felt like a limp noodle. I enjoyed the mechanics but the numbers felt wrong.

That’s all people can say about it unless you are at gamescon right now playing shiro.
Quit complaining about things you don’t actually know. Shiro will probably be amazing. The fact that the whole profession is a call back to the past GW games makes veterans like me feel good about it.

skowcia.8257, You probably didn’t play Revenant in the little weekend bonus we got to try them out in the real world. They were bad. They NEED weapon swap, otherwise they are just to restricted in their skills to be much fun.

Actually i played with him during portal “beta” (4 hours) and beta week (32hours, wvw solo roaming/spvp) mind you.. He sucked cus he lacked damage and had many outdated traits. He still going to suck due to lack of proper sustain, that wasnt properly adressed yet, not bc he had no access to weapon swap which wasnt needed at all due to low cd’s. At least damage wise he should be fine now – yes, even on staff.

Its also kinda funny that you assume i didnt played him as many of the recent changes comes from my feedback & suggestions haha

What i was hoping for was a heavy nonswapable class just like ele and engi. That unique aspect (and symetry) been taken away. I like the theme and all but the weapon swap doesnt really fix anything in the long run. But you wont understand why either way so i will spare my time to explain it and actually..going to bed. Zzzzz.

So if you can dont accuse me of this silly stuff. Ty. And i still think that utility skills should act more like a weapons skills – like Mallyx.

terrific, define “needed”. Do you think your idea will be “needed”?

All new professions could technically be said to be “unneeded”. They are usually either added to give players more options or they fit into the current theme of the story/expansion.

I’m reserving all my judgments on the class until I get to play the finished version though. We’ve only be able to play a half finished version of the class, and it has been a bit subpar, but Anet has made it a point to listen to our feedback on the subject and improve the class as much as possible to meet the community’s expectations. No reason to had out a verdict on it just yet when it’s still in a state of constant flux.

skowcia.8257:

What i was hoping for was a heavy nonswapable class just like ele and engi. That unique aspect (and symetry) been taken away. I like the theme and all but the weapon swap doesnt really fix anything in the long run.

Have to say i disagree, in fact i would say the opposite in that having no weapon swap doesn’t fix anything in the long run, it doesn’t add anything to a profession it just limits them from taking too many skills. The reason ele and engi don’t have weapon swap is because they have more choice thanks to attunements/conjure weapons and kits/f skills on top of customizable utilities which is the real kicker. While rev could change it’s utilities they change to a predefined set, it lacked customization necessary to adapt to situations. With weapon swap the rev is still some what limited in it’s adaptability compared to other professions but not as badly as it was before. The best example is that you can now switch between ranged and melee weapons in a fight.

A quick comparison
ele: 4 atttunments, utilities or up to 4 weapon sets from conjures that’s 5-8 sets of skills to make use of.
engi: 1 weapon set, 1 utility set or up to 5 kits with 1 set of f skills. That’s 3-7 sets of skills.
rev originally: 1 weapon set, 2 sets of fixed utilities for a total of 3 sets of skills, with very little customization.
rev with WS: 2 weapon sets, 2 sets of fixed utilities for a total of 4 sets of skills.

As you can see rev still doesn’t have nearly the same number of available skills in a fight as ele or engi so it makes sense to have weapon swap. frankly it is still held back by the fixed utilities.

As for damage and sustain those have already been tweaked and will continue to be tweaked following the upcoming betas, i never saw this as a problem i did see a lack of weapon swapping as a problem.

In a barren expansion anything is “needed” and “vital”….imagine removing even that..what’s left for this expansion?

Rebound.3409:

In a barren expansion anything is “needed” and “vital”….imagine removing even that..what’s left for this expansion?

Considering we don’t know the full content of this expansion yet, it’s a bit early to say this is a “barren” expansion and everything is “needed” and “vital”.

It might not be needed but i’m hella glad it is coming. you may not find the revenant interesting but i’m sure there are plenty of people who do (me included).

I love the entire concept of summoning legends, and had a lot of fun playing the revenant during the test weekend. Yes the numbers needed some work, but thats what the test weekends and beta’s are for, to get feedback on that.

So no it’s probably not needed, is anything really NEEDED tho? Either you like the class or you don’t, but whether it’s needed or not is quite irrelevant since classes are there to offer a different taste. Just like all the current professions are unnecessary in theory, the only thing they bring is different packages that speak to different people.

Erukk.1408:

Rebound.3409:

In a barren expansion anything is “needed” and “vital”….imagine removing even that..what’s left for this expansion?

Considering we don’t know the full content of this expansion yet, it’s a bit early to say this is a “barren” expansion and everything is “needed” and “vital”.

You are way too hopeful i hope you are right but reality works in a different way.

Dinsy.2491:

blabla

And the very old question remains;

Why weapon swap, not an unique way like you mentioned – kits, attunements.
Swapping between melee and range? Cool, but ele doesnt have that and is still top tier in all game modes.

It still doesnt fix anything, it will actually cause more problems as certain weapons will remain useless (hammer) on their own, weapon swap will also lead to long cd’s like other classes+energy cost – mind you cd’s were supposed to be low, is 20cd low? My ranger and war has lower cd’s than that..and they dont have to worry about energy cost either just fire it off cd.

Now we also missing second condi set and i could go on, but really im not gonna argue and discuss it. Bye

@OP, you know if you are going to complain about a profession you could at least learn how to type it properly :P Otherwise people may think you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

They went to a lot of trouble to have nobody be “needed”. That’s not going to change for the Revenant players.

skowcia.8257:

Swapping between melee and range? Cool, but ele doesnt have that and is still top tier in all game modes.

Ele does have this in the form of conjure weapons, ice bow is super popular.

Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it wasn’t needed. Revenant offers a whole new way to play the game. Adding weapon swapping was a must due to Legends being tied so much with weapons. Now we also have 3 light, medium, and heavy professions so it balances out. As far as lore goes, it fits in just perfectly. It ties plenty of different aspects from both GW1 and 2.

I noticed you also compared Shiro to a Thief. Is that just because Shiro allows for quick bursting and slight deception? I don’t think of it that way. I see revenants getting used quite a bit purely because they offer a bit of everything. They aren’t perfect or specialize at just one thing which makes it interesting.

Fox.3469:

skowcia.8257:

Swapping between melee and range? Cool, but ele doesnt have that and is still top tier in all game modes.

Ele does have this in the form of conjure weapons, ice bow is super popular.

Im a bit too old (and have too many hours ingame) for these tales.. The olny reason why eles run icebow is op ice storm, once you use that you drop ice bow.. So much for being popular, unless you have seen someone camping it till 0 charges?

And even then it apply to pve dungeons olny, sometimes eles runs it in wvw but nothing else really. So no, ele really cant swap between range.

Blackarps.1974:

so it balances out.

Almost..one thing is missing. Heavy has no class without wep swap.

Not to give this thread more fuel than it deserves (which is little :P), but I’m reminded that my Death Knight and Monk from a certain game’s other expansions still aren’t max level.

I shall not make the same mistake with Revenant. (Because tomes. Aww yeah.)

skowcia.8257:

Dinsy.2491:

blabla

-polite snip-

Not sure how kits or something similar would fit with fixed utilities tbh, not saying i’m against them.

As for weapon swapping not fixing anything it does in the sense that it opens up more options in the same way kits do for engi.

skowcia.8257:

Almost..one thing is missing. Heavy has no class without wep swap.

Balance means one class not overshadowing other classes, weapon swap has nothing to do with this, as ele is a clear example of this. It doesn’t have to be 1 class per armor type that can’t weapon swap, altough they clearly started from this point, they added weapon swap just to make it more balanced… Balance is how classes match up vs eachother and not if 1 class has weapon swap or not. It’s only because you want it to be like this for some weird reason that you are even taking this argument.