Guild Wars 2

so im like idk where to post this but this sounded like the best slot

so im kinda thinking how to best prepare for the coming of reve
im kinda ready with its armor(full ascended zerker and trinkets as wel)
so im onto the weapons so hammer solid option and axe mace
some less mace typ becuse of its condi but oki wil do

so from what i have heared on reddit with all the datamining kittenzly
can we trust that what they are saieing or just wait for office stuff ?

gr from a bored player =)

Not to burst your bubble, but I’m not expecting berserker to be the meta stat set for Revenant. In the beta with fury and the trait that increased fury’s effectiveness to 50% we were hitting 90% crit chance in celestial gear and no precision from runes or sigils. If this stays we might want to look into a different statset with power, ferocity and something else. Or maybe we only use a few berserker items instead of full berserker.

For a more direct answer, don’t make anything untill we see the whole package and more importantly all weapons. Sword/Sword is starting to shape up quite well.

(And yes, I said Sword/Sword and not Sword/Dagger)

Bovan.9481:

Not to burst your bubble, but I’m not expecting berserker to be the meta stat set for Revenant. In the beta with fury and the trait that increased fury’s effectiveness to 50% we were hitting 90% crit chance in celestial gear and no precision from runes or sigils. If this stays we might want to look into a different statset with power, ferocity and something else.

Cavalier perhaps.

Yeah I would wait until HoT is out before you make anything. I made the mistake in thinking heavy ascended celestial gear would be good no matter what heavy profession I use it on, but in hindsight I feel as though everything has to be celestial in order for it to work (amulet, rings, accessories, backpack etc. too).

So yeah, wait until you know for sure what stats you want. If you have any dungeon armor boxes you’re not using, and they happen to give the stats you want (I.E. zerker stats), you could always make a zerker heavy exotic set and keep it in bank until the rev comes out and test the waters as such, to see how you like it.

I think it’s smart to have a few stat sets in their exotic versions, to try things out, before you go ahead and make ascended versions of it – something I myself didn’t do when making ascended celestial, which I do regret now. I just HOPE that celestial stats for revenant will be good, but I can’t tell until it’s out.

For PvE Berserker is a safe bet. Cavalier would be weak because you dont get power main stat. And Valkyrie just seems kind of pointless. Berserker is going to give you better damage in situations where you dont have fury or if the meta doesnt involve using that trait.

spoj.9672:

For PvE Berserker is a safe bet. Cavalier would be weak because you dont get power main stat. And Valkyrie just seems kind of pointless. Berserker is going to give you better damage in situations where you dont have fury or if the meta doesnt involve using that trait.

Still going to keep my hopes up for Power/Ferocity/Condition Damage gear in the future :[

Well there is a slim possibility of condi gear becoming meta tier. Which means sinister could be an option. But i think its kind of unlikely to be better than flat damage even with condis being dramatically improved.

I’m going to be really surprised if condition damage ever becomes a meta in PvE for anything but world bosses. It may have potential when soloing but speedrunning I’m a little skeptical. Not saying it won’t and can’t happen, I’m just not able to imagine it working better than full berserker under any circumstance.

But who knows. I’ve been surprised by weirder things.

EDIT:
Whoops, probably should have clarified that I was mainly talking about dungeons.

Bovan.9481:

Not to burst your bubble, but I’m not expecting berserker to be the meta stat set for Revenant. In the beta with fury and the trait that increased fury’s effectiveness to 50% we were hitting 90% crit chance in celestial gear and no precision from runes or sigils. If this stays we might want to look into a different statset with power, ferocity and something else. Or maybe we only use a few berserker items instead of full berserker.

For a more direct answer, don’t make anything untill we see the whole package and more importantly all weapons. Sword/Sword is starting to shape up quite well.

(And yes, I said Sword/Sword and not Sword/Dagger)

Unless they’ve changed it, the fury trait increases its effectiveness by 50%. If fury gave you 50% crit chance that’s an increase of 150%.

Altair.8402:

Bovan.9481:

Not to burst your bubble, but I’m not expecting berserker to be the meta stat set for Revenant. In the beta with fury and the trait that increased fury’s effectiveness to 50% we were hitting 90% crit chance in celestial gear and no precision from runes or sigils. If this stays we might want to look into a different statset with power, ferocity and something else. Or maybe we only use a few berserker items instead of full berserker.

For a more direct answer, don’t make anything untill we see the whole package and more importantly all weapons. Sword/Sword is starting to shape up quite well.

(And yes, I said Sword/Sword and not Sword/Dagger)

Unless they’ve changed it, the fury trait increases its effectiveness by 50%. If fury gave you 50% crit chance that’s an increase of 150%.

Well this is how it worked in the last stress test. 40% crit chance without fury, 90% with fury when we had the trait. Maybe it was a UI bug or error but it definitely didn’t seem like it when I was actually attacking things. But to be fair I wasn’t actually keeping count and doing proper testing on this thing.

My first reaction was that it would be too powerful, but then again people are theorycrafting that Reaper can hit 100% crit chance without precision whatsoever. (I haven’t been keeping track of Reapers past the PoI episode, not sure if this is correct or not).

But beta is beta of course.

It’s +50% effectiveness for fury, meaning 20% * 1.5 = 30% crit chance from it, not 50%.

Sins.4782:

It’s +50% effectiveness for fury, meaning 20% * 1.5 = 30% crit chance from it, not 50%.

I’m not pulling these numbers from my imagination, I was in the last beta and specifically checked. 40% without fury, 90% with fury.

Here I’ll give you a bonus. This mob was using an attack that looked almost identical to the sword attack Rytlock did in the trailer where he jumped from target to target. Bear in mind the attack is extremely quick and taking a screenshot was very difficult. This was the best I could do in the little time I had. The attack hit 7 times just like the datamined potential Revenant sword skill.

http://i.imgur.com/zQj7981.png

Bovan.9481:

Sins.4782:

It’s +50% effectiveness for fury, meaning 20% * 1.5 = 30% crit chance from it, not 50%.

I’m not pulling these numbers from my imagination, I was in the last beta and specifically checked. 40% without fury, 90% with fury.

Here I’ll give you a bonus. This mob was using an attack that looked almost identical to the sword attack Rytlock did in the trailer where he jumped from target to target. Bear in mind the attack is extremely quick and taking a screenshot was very difficult. This was the best I could do in the little time I had. The attack hit 7 times just like the datamined potential Revenant sword skill.

http://i.imgur.com/zQj7981.png

I bielieve fury trait is bugged. It is supposed to make fury 30% but instead it buff fury to 50%. I guess they been playing a bit with it, changed tooltip but forgot to change the trait itself. As for your mob i captured him and i was like wtf.

min 48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MApt3PmSWbg

There wasnt any evade effect during that tho and it looks like some sort of a teleport hack without mist effect.

Bovan.9481:

Not to burst your bubble, but I’m not expecting berserker to be the meta stat set for Revenant. In the beta with fury and the trait that increased fury’s effectiveness to 50% we were hitting 90% crit chance in celestial gear and no precision from runes or sigils. If this stays we might want to look into a different statset with power, ferocity and something else. Or maybe we only use a few berserker items instead of full berserker.

For a more direct answer, don’t make anything untill we see the whole package and more importantly all weapons. Sword/Sword is starting to shape up quite well.

(And yes, I said Sword/Sword and not Sword/Dagger)

Some of us are hoping the Zerker will be the thing of the past once this launches because it does nothing but detract from actual strategy.

I hope that this class shakes that up dramatically in all classes. Roles are a strategy folks not burst dps, if ever anyone’s ever played ADnD you’ll know what I’m talking about. There’s a reason why glass cannons died in ADnD all the time if they weren’t careful or didn’t choose some defensive abilities it should be true for MMOs as well.

So for now honestly OP I wouldn’t worry about the Zerker meta because I don’t think it will last much longer from the looks of it.

Bovan.9481:

For a more direct answer, don’t make anything untill we see the whole package and more importantly all weapons. Sword/Sword is starting to shape up quite well.

(And yes, I said Sword/Sword and not Sword/Dagger)

How do you know about dual swords? So far, we’ve seen only sword MH and dagger OH.

Scar.1793:

Bovan.9481:

For a more direct answer, don’t make anything untill we see the whole package and more importantly all weapons. Sword/Sword is starting to shape up quite well.

(And yes, I said Sword/Sword and not Sword/Dagger)

How do you know about dual swords? So far, we’ve seen only sword MH and dagger OH.

This is the most current datamine of Revenant weapons and skills: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/37tunc/update_revenant_datamined_staff_skills_removed/

Direct link to the skills: http://i.imgur.com/wP1UXvH.jpg

tigirius.9014:

Some of us are hoping the Zerker will be the thing of the past once this launches because it does nothing but detract from actual strategy.

Can you elaborate this?

Diovid.9506:

Scar.1793:

Bovan.9481:

For a more direct answer, don’t make anything untill we see the whole package and more importantly all weapons. Sword/Sword is starting to shape up quite well.

(And yes, I said Sword/Sword and not Sword/Dagger)

How do you know about dual swords? So far, we’ve seen only sword MH and dagger OH.

This is the most current datamine of Revenant weapons and skills: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/37tunc/update_revenant_datamined_staff_skills_removed/

Direct link to the skills: http://i.imgur.com/wP1UXvH.jpg

I somewhat still dont believe that they giving revenant offhand sword. I mean dagger offhand was unique for a heavy class. Why would they ruin it at this point it is beyond me.

skowcia.8257:

Diovid.9506:

Scar.1793:

Bovan.9481:

For a more direct answer, don’t make anything untill we see the whole package and more importantly all weapons. Sword/Sword is starting to shape up quite well.

(And yes, I said Sword/Sword and not Sword/Dagger)

How do you know about dual swords? So far, we’ve seen only sword MH and dagger OH.

This is the most current datamine of Revenant weapons and skills: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/37tunc/update_revenant_datamined_staff_skills_removed/

Direct link to the skills: http://i.imgur.com/wP1UXvH.jpg

I somewhat still dont believe that they giving revenant offhand sword. I mean dagger offhand was unique for a heavy class. Why would they ruin it at this point it is beyond me.

For faniacs.

skowcia.8257:

Diovid.9506:

Scar.1793:

Bovan.9481:

For a more direct answer, don’t make anything untill we see the whole package and more importantly all weapons. Sword/Sword is starting to shape up quite well.

(And yes, I said Sword/Sword and not Sword/Dagger)

How do you know about dual swords? So far, we’ve seen only sword MH and dagger OH.

This is the most current datamine of Revenant weapons and skills: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/37tunc/update_revenant_datamined_staff_skills_removed/

Direct link to the skills: http://i.imgur.com/wP1UXvH.jpg

I somewhat still dont believe that they giving revenant offhand sword. I mean dagger offhand was unique for a heavy class. Why would they ruin it at this point it is beyond me.

Daggers are boring, and S/D is already a thing on Thief. S/S is pointless in dungeons, and alright in PvP as a warrior. So for a change it would be good if they could anything other than condi weapons. However I still don’t find the skills impressive or really attractive, especially with a class that has no weapon swap. Maybe I’ll stick with my warrior.

Scar.1793:

skowcia.8257:

Diovid.9506:

Scar.1793:

Bovan.9481:

For a more direct answer, don’t make anything untill we see the whole package and more importantly all weapons. Sword/Sword is starting to shape up quite well.

(And yes, I said Sword/Sword and not Sword/Dagger)

How do you know about dual swords? So far, we’ve seen only sword MH and dagger OH.

This is the most current datamine of Revenant weapons and skills: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/37tunc/update_revenant_datamined_staff_skills_removed/

Direct link to the skills: http://i.imgur.com/wP1UXvH.jpg

I somewhat still dont believe that they giving revenant offhand sword. I mean dagger offhand was unique for a heavy class. Why would they ruin it at this point it is beyond me.

Daggers are boring, and S/D is already a thing on Thief. S/S is pointless in dungeons, and alright in PvP as a warrior. So for a change it would be good if they could anything other than condi weapons. However I still don’t find the skills impressive or really attractive, especially with a class that has no weapon swap. Maybe I’ll stick with my warrior.

Thief is a medium armor class. And by looking at these skills revenant s/s wont be a meta in pve either. You be better off with axe for it spike on 4 and aoe pull or shield for support. And no, if anything dualsword is boring and beated to death in many games.

How many games offers you sword/dagger combination with heavy armor outside of Dark Souls and how many allows dualwield swords? Ranged spear is dissapointing as well.

You should’ve waited on that ascended set. lol.

nexxe.7081:

You should’ve waited on that ascended set. lol.

Agree.

I got all the mats to craft an ascended heavy armor, also the materials to craft a Sinister if that becomes a thing, I’ll wait till HoT and play a bit with the weapons and see what will be the best gear.

tigirius.9014:

Some of us are hoping the Zerker will be the thing of the past once this launches because it does nothing but detract from actual strategy.

How would you know? Have you ever participated in a proper speed run? No? Do you think we go in with no strategy and our plan is to just yolo DPS to make records? I’m sorry, you probably didn’t mean to be offensive, but when you make comments like that from a place of ignorance it is hard to avoid.

Roles are a strategy folks not burst dps,

We have roles in speed runs already. You just want old school trinity roles. Too bad. This isn’t a trinity game. Go play WS or Final Fantasy. If you don’t like having to use your dodge button and would prefer to be kept alive by someone spamming heals on you this isn’t your game.

So for now honestly OP I wouldn’t worry about the Zerker meta because I don’t think it will last much longer from the looks of it.

Wanna bet? I’ll put 5000 gold on you being wrong.

Bovan.9481:

Not to burst your bubble, but I’m not expecting berserker to be the meta stat set for Revenant. In the beta with fury and the trait that increased fury’s effectiveness to 50% we were hitting 90% crit chance in celestial gear and no precision from runes or sigils. If this stays we might want to look into a different statset with power, ferocity and something else. Or maybe we only use a few berserker items instead of full berserker.

For a more direct answer, don’t make anything untill we see the whole package and more importantly all weapons. Sword/Sword is starting to shape up quite well.

(And yes, I said Sword/Sword and not Sword/Dagger)

It´s an increase OF 50%, so 0,5×20=30%, not TO 50%. That would be broken as kitten.

Yvonio.9380:

It´s an increase OF 50%, so 0,5×20=30%, not TO 50%. That would be broken as kitten.

Meanwhile, in-game, when putting the trait on and gaining fury, our crit chance was increased by 50%.
I was in the last stress test and I have tested this first hand.

But I have the feeling you won’t be the last person to ’’correct’’ me so I’m going to stop repeating myself from here on.

Frankly, nobody really knows what gear will best suit the Revenant and how you would want to play it. If you want to prep gear for your toon, get all of your mats together to craft your ascended gear—then you won’t have over-committed to the wrong gear set.

spoj.9672:

Well there is a slim possibility of condi gear becoming meta tier. Which means sinister could be an option. But i think its kind of unlikely to be better than flat damage even with condis being dramatically improved.

I can see one condi player being ok in high fractals/new challenging cont—-AHAHAHAH hum hum sorry… yeah. I can totally see one being viable, if the new monsters are [hp bags] tougher.
Not more than one, though, and not more than ok or viable.
And it WON’T be the revenant – unless it gets a gigantic buff, so don’t even start with the raving. Warr or necro perhaps.

Just go zergburger.

quite sad it’s always the same old stats even after 3 years

Scar.1793:

quite sad it’s always the same old stats even after 3 years

Why is that sad? We have the same dodge button and we have had 3 years to get good at the game. What would really be sad is if 3 years later we all still needed/wanted to wear tanky gear because we were so bad at the game.

NikeEU.7690:

Scar.1793:

quite sad it’s always the same old stats even after 3 years

Why is that sad? We have the same dodge button and we have had 3 years to get good at the game. What would really be sad is if 3 years later we all still needed/wanted to wear tanky gear because we were so bad at the game.

It’s sad because there is very little actual player choice when it comes to gear. In a game that prides itself on character customization, the fact that most player choice is illusory is quite sad.

Another issue is that we only have 2 power based stat combinations at the moment. We have berserker and assassins. Even when a class breaks the mold by eliminating one stat, we don’t really have a solid different stat combination to pick. Sinister is a good step in the right direction, but for that to be a really strong choice we would need a class that has ferocity build in or a class that has so much condition damage that it overwhelms the ferocity. Possibly Engineer could take that role after a couple of changes and the new specialization but I’m not going to hold my breath for that.

On that note I’ve slightly changed my stance since my first post here. Even if precision is completely eliminated as a strong stat for Revenants, I actually don’t know what gear to use. Might as well just stick with berserker untill we see something new.

EDIT:
After re-reading my post I realized my wording is a bit awkward. Hopefully it gets the point across.

MattyP.6954:

It’s sad because there is very little actual player choice when it comes to gear. In a game that prides itself on character customization, the fact that most player choice is illusory is quite sad.

And what that choice will give you? Will it change the gamplay if I now have 70% of my old dps but twice as much effective hp?

MattyP.6954:

NikeEU.7690:

Scar.1793:

quite sad it’s always the same old stats even after 3 years

Why is that sad? We have the same dodge button and we have had 3 years to get good at the game. What would really be sad is if 3 years later we all still needed/wanted to wear tanky gear because we were so bad at the game.

It’s sad because there is very little actual player choice when it comes to gear. In a game that prides itself on character customization, the fact that most player choice is illusory is quite sad.

Gear doesn’t determine your playstyle. It’s a linear spectrum of defense → offense. If you want it to be more than that you’re creating the illusion, not Anet.

NikeEU.7690:

Gear doesn’t determine your playstyle. It’s a linear spectrum of defense -> offense. If you want it to be more than that you’re creating the illusion, not Anet.

If Anet intended for gear stats to have a natural progression from defense to offense, they would have presented it as such. But they haven’t, and they are still trying to make other gear viable in PvE, as seen with the upcoming condition changes.

NikeEU.7690:

MattyP.6954:

NikeEU.7690:

Scar.1793:

quite sad it’s always the same old stats even after 3 years

Why is that sad? We have the same dodge button and we have had 3 years to get good at the game. What would really be sad is if 3 years later we all still needed/wanted to wear tanky gear because we were so bad at the game.

It’s sad because there is very little actual player choice when it comes to gear. In a game that prides itself on character customization, the fact that most player choice is illusory is quite sad.

Gear doesn’t determine your playstyle. It’s a linear spectrum of defense -> offense. If you want it to be more than that you’re creating the illusion, not Anet.

Straw men are made of straw. I never stated that gear determines your playstyle (if anything, it should be the opposite).

However, in a game that touts its capacity for character customization, the fact that the content so heavily favors a select few stat combinations has the effect of severely limiting player choice.

Furthermore, don’t pretend that wearing zerker gear means you know how to play the game well—the established strategy for dungeons has been “wear zerker, stack in the corner and spam your skills” for way too long. It’s a brainless faceroll that isn’t fun or rewarding (at least to me), and it takes less skill and effort than an early WoW five-man.

MattyP.6954:

NikeEU.7690:

MattyP.6954:

NikeEU.7690:

Scar.1793:

quite sad it’s always the same old stats even after 3 years

Why is that sad? We have the same dodge button and we have had 3 years to get good at the game. What would really be sad is if 3 years later we all still needed/wanted to wear tanky gear because we were so bad at the game.

It’s sad because there is very little actual player choice when it comes to gear. In a game that prides itself on character customization, the fact that most player choice is illusory is quite sad.

Gear doesn’t determine your playstyle. It’s a linear spectrum of defense -> offense. If you want it to be more than that you’re creating the illusion, not Anet.

Straw men are made of straw. I never stated that gear determines your playstyle (if anything, it should be the opposite).

However, in a game that touts its capacity for character customization, the fact that the content so heavily favors a select few stat combinations has the effect of severely limiting player choice.

Furthermore, don’t pretend that wearing zerker gear means you know how to play the game well—the established strategy for dungeons has been “wear zerker, stack in the corner and spam your skills” for way too long. It’s a brainless faceroll that isn’t fun or rewarding (at least to me), and it takes less skill and effort than an early WoW five-man.

I’m not sure what you think we do in a daily dungeon run, but if you think the sum total is stacking in a corner and spamming skills I can safely say you have no clue. You want the choices to be meaningful, well, they are. You can choose to be tanky or choose to be glassy. That’s your choices. Again, if you feel there is supposed to be more to it than that, YOU are the one creating the illusion for yourself based on what you want to be vs what is.

If Anet intended for gear stats to have a natural progression from defense to offense, they would have presented it as such. But they haven’t,

Ofcourse they have. The stats on your gear either help you sustain or they help you do damage. Besides boon duration, which can be offensive or defensive, they are all one or the other. What else is there? Offense or defense. A simpleton could see that the only role for gear is offense or defense. You want there to be more, fine, but your wants are not the current reality.

NikeEU.7690:

MattyP.6954:

NikeEU.7690:

MattyP.6954:

NikeEU.7690:

Scar.1793:

quite sad it’s always the same old stats even after 3 years

Why is that sad? We have the same dodge button and we have had 3 years to get good at the game. What would really be sad is if 3 years later we all still needed/wanted to wear tanky gear because we were so bad at the game.

It’s sad because there is very little actual player choice when it comes to gear. In a game that prides itself on character customization, the fact that most player choice is illusory is quite sad.

Gear doesn’t determine your playstyle. It’s a linear spectrum of defense -> offense. If you want it to be more than that you’re creating the illusion, not Anet.

Straw men are made of straw. I never stated that gear determines your playstyle (if anything, it should be the opposite).

However, in a game that touts its capacity for character customization, the fact that the content so heavily favors a select few stat combinations has the effect of severely limiting player choice.

Furthermore, don’t pretend that wearing zerker gear means you know how to play the game well—the established strategy for dungeons has been “wear zerker, stack in the corner and spam your skills” for way too long. It’s a brainless faceroll that isn’t fun or rewarding (at least to me), and it takes less skill and effort than an early WoW five-man.

I’m not sure what you think we do in a daily dungeon run, but if you think the sum total is stacking in a corner and spamming skills I can safely say you have no clue. You want the choices to be meaningful, well, they are. You can choose to be tanky or choose to be glassy. That’s your choices. Again, if you feel there is supposed to be more to it than that, YOU are the one creating the illusion for yourself based on what you want to be vs what is.

If Anet intended for gear stats to have a natural progression from defense to offense, they would have presented it as such. But they haven’t,

Ofcourse they have. The stats on your gear either help you sustain or they help you do damage. Besides boon duration, which can be offensive or defensive, they are all one or the other. What else is there? Offense or defense. A simpleton could see that the only role for gear is offense or defense. You want there to be more, fine, but your wants are not the current reality.

I don’t know who “we” is, but almost all pugs I’ve run with shout “STACK” for almost every fight (off of the top of my head, in AC, SE, and Arah—all explorable), with many gearchecking for zerker gear.

And here is what is meant by “illusory choice”. Of course Soldier’s Gear gives you more sustain than ‘zerker, but when the mechanics promote such cheesy tactics as sitting on top of your teammates for instant revives and skill spamming, there’s no need for that sustain. Wearing anything less offensive than Zealot’s Gear is just a hindrance to the group’s speed run. It’s static, cheesy, faceroll gameplay and the primary reason why rarely do dungeons.

You can “choose” to wear Berzerker gear, or you can “choose” to be endlessly QQed at by angry pugs.

That being said, some change their tune when I can take Kudu’s mega blast to the face while I revive zerker slaves who couldn’t.

NikeEU.7690:

Ofcourse they have. The stats on your gear either help you sustain or they help you do damage. Besides boon duration, which can be offensive or defensive, they are all one or the other. What else is there? Offense or defense. A simpleton could see that the only role for gear is offense or defense. You want there to be more, fine, but your wants are not the current reality.

Healing Power is support. Boon and condition duration are support, as well, although they come mostly from traits/ food and not gear. Toughness is meant to sustain against direct damage, vitality against sudden bursts and condition damage. All of those effects can be build-defining in a pvp environment.

It is true that current PvE’s reality is a failure in that regard, but Anet is still focusing on making different stats more meaningful. The changes to condition damage, new foes with tougher armor, new traits that give a massive amount of precision, boon duration on gear (although that one is currently useless) or the more varied foe attacks are all attempts to tone down the “zerker” gear meta.

DiogoSilva.7089:

NikeEU.7690:

Ofcourse they have. The stats on your gear either help you sustain or they help you do damage. Besides boon duration, which can be offensive or defensive, they are all one or the other. What else is there? Offense or defense. A simpleton could see that the only role for gear is offense or defense. You want there to be more, fine, but your wants are not the current reality.

Healing Power is support. Boon and condition duration are support, as well, although they come mostly from traits/ food and not gear. Toughness is meant to sustain against direct damage, vitality against sudden bursts and condition damage. All of those effects can be build-defining in a pvp environment.

It is true that current PvE’s reality is a failure in that regard, but Anet is still focusing on making different stats more meaningful. The changes to condition damage, new foes with tougher armor, new traits that give a massive amount of precision, boon duration on gear (although that one is currently useless) or the more varied foe attacks are all attempts to tone down the “zerker” gear meta.

Since party healing is minimal, healing power is mostly sustain for personal healing skills and regeneration. Boon duration is is either defensive sustain or offensive buffing. Condition Duration is offense. Additionally, condition duration isn’t really a gear stat besides Giver’s weapons, which don’t even have an ascended version because anet knows they are extremely OP in PVE.

I don’t know who “we” is, but almost all pugs I’ve run with shout “STACK” for almost every fight (off of the top of my head, in AC, SE, and Arah—all explorable), with many gearchecking for zerker gear.

“We” are the dungeon community. Whatever silly tactics bad pugs do in bad pug runs isn’t indicative of the best, easiest or most efficient way to run dungeons. Pugs genuinely think corner stacking actually makes the fights easier or “cheeses it” or whatever. I see that you do too. Unfortunately, you’re all quite wrong. Corner stacking is almost always slower, less efficient and arguably more dangerous than fighting on top. You have very strong opinions, and you seem quite set in them. But you also don’t understand the game very well yet, and I don’t say that as an insult. My advice is to moderate your opinions about game balance and difficulty until you actually understand the game well enough to offer more insight.

NikeEU.7690:

Since party healing is minimal, healing power is mostly sustain for personal healing skills and regeneration. Boon duration is is either defensive sustain or offensive buffing. Condition Duration is offense. Additionally, condition duration isn’t really a gear stat besides Giver’s weapons, which don’t even have an ascended version because anet knows they are extremely OP in PVE.

A few Quibbles:

• Party healing isn’t minimal if you build for it. It’ll never be the GUI-game that WoW healing was, but I can push 10k healing out of my warrior pretty quickly (incredibly useful in wvwvw, especially with condi cleansing)
• Boon Duration may be either defensive or offensive (depending on the boon, ofc), but it is definitely support for builds with boon sharing
• I’ve heard rumors that they are adding condi-duration to gear, since it is being removed from trait lines. That being said, increasing duration of blinds, weakness, vuln stacks, cripples, poison, etc is definitely a supportive option.
• Related to above: There is this weird view that support is only healing/boon sharing when that is completely not the case. I run a Dire/Rabid Engineer in WvWvW, and I can be incredibly supportive in team fights because I run 3 blinds (one of which is a smoke field), 3 combo fields, 2 knockbacks, and vuln out the wazoo. A condition build can be just as (if not more) supportive as a healing/boons build if you know how to use those conditions to support your team. (and yes, condition duration is support in this case)

NikeEU.7690:

“We” are the dungeon community. Whatever silly tactics bad pugs do in bad pug runs isn’t indicative of the best, easiest or most efficient way to run dungeons. Pugs genuinely think corner stacking actually makes the fights easier or “cheeses it” or whatever. I see that you do too. Unfortunately, you’re all quite wrong. Corner stacking is almost always slower, less efficient and arguably more dangerous than fighting on top. You have very strong opinions, and you seem quite set in them. But you also don’t understand the game very well yet, and I don’t say that as an insult. My advice is to moderate your opinions about game balance and difficulty until you actually understand the game well enough to offer more insight.

I didn’t realize I was so lucky as to be speaking to the duly-elected representative of the Dungeon Community. That being said, the majority of the community probably doesn’t keep up to date with metabattle. They do what’s easy: Standing on top of your buddies for the great dps race. Anet could fix this in a second by adding anti-stacking mechanics to dungeons, and then this would fix the issue.

The real issue is build and play-style elitism: you have a loose community of PuGs who will rage if you don’t do their preferred strategy (even if it’s behind the meta), and you have the meta acolytes who look down on the unwashed, puggy masses with condescension: How DARE they disregard the almighty META!

What gets lost is that dungeons are supposed to be fun, and, in a game that touts its capacity for player choice, they should support a reasonable degree of gear and build diversity (there will always be braindead builds that never work—a condi build with magi armor, as an example).

More importantly, the community should recognize the fact that not everyone (whether for play-style, RP, or any reason, really) wants to wear Berzerker armor, not everyone wants to keep different sets of armor for WvWvW and PvE (my main issue), and people may want to play in a way that is fun without being optimal from a speed-running perspective. The overheated, visceral reactions that players get for running a sub-optimal speed-running build is absolutely toxic.

Guild Wars 2 supposedly supports a high degree of player choice and customization, and the content should promote that diversity.

More importantly, the community should support it too.

You’re tilting at windmills. If you don’t want to pug with wannabe elitist pugs you don’t have to. Most LFG descriptions are very accurate and you are free to start your own anything-goes, no-stacking group. Your complaints are essentially that you don’t want to be told how to play when you join other people’s groups, which I’m sorry to say, is a personal issue not a game issue.

Why would anet need anti-stacking mechanics when stacking doesn’t do anything? Do you understand why people stack and what it accomplishes or doesn’t accomplish? Are you going to continue to be kitten about a topic you clearly don’t understand?

I didn’t realize I was so lucky as to be speaking to the duly-elected representative of the Dungeon Community. That being said, the majority of the community probably doesn’t keep up to date with metabattle.

The irony is you first sentence is dripping with sarcasm but you have no idea that its basically true. The second part of your sentence reveals your flawed thinking: wannabe elitist scrub pugs aren’t in the dungeon community any more than the rally bots who follow commanders in WvW and dont come on TS are in the WvW community.

NikeEU.7690:

You’re tilting at windmills. If you don’t want to pug with wannabe elitist pugs you don’t have to. Most LFG descriptions are very accurate and you are free to start your own anything-goes, no-stacking group. Your complaints are essentially that you don’t want to be told how to play when you join other people’s groups, which I’m sorry to say, is a personal issue not a game issue.

Why would anet need anti-stacking mechanics when stacking doesn’t do anything? Do you understand why people stack and what it accomplishes or doesn’t accomplish? Are you going to continue to be kitten about a topic you clearly don’t understand?

I didn’t realize I was so lucky as to be speaking to the duly-elected representative of the Dungeon Community. That being said, the majority of the community probably doesn’t keep up to date with metabattle.

The irony is you first sentence is dripping with sarcasm but you have no idea that its basically true. The second part of your sentence reveals your flawed thinking: wannabe elitist scrub pugs aren’t in the dungeon community any more than the rally bots who follow commanders in WvW and dont come on TS are in the WvW community.

Wait, you are the elected representative of the Dungeon Community? That’s crazy… When was the election held?

And yeah… people who play dungeons regularly are kind of in the “Dungeon Community”, unless you really are some sort of elected official who gets to determine membership in your club.

But please, continue to tell me how No True Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge.

As to your other point, I pretty clearly state that it was a Game Community issue, as well as a game content issue.

(And yes, stacking benefits in providing instant contact to downed allies for res, sitting in combo fields without effort, and LOSing adds when they spawn, forcing them into melee range. If it wasn’t at all beneficial, people wouldn’t do it.)

Also, when 5 strangers randomly meet to run a dungeon, who gets to play dictator? Do we have to run an election?

NikeEU.7690:

Scar.1793:

quite sad it’s always the same old stats even after 3 years

Why is that sad? We have the same dodge button and we have had 3 years to get good at the game. What would really be sad is if 3 years later we all still needed/wanted to wear tanky gear because we were so bad at the game.

Because it becomes less choice than even a trinity mmo. At least in a trinity mmo, you can have 3 roles.

And yes, people will respond that there are choices, but choosing a less optimal build/gear is non-productive to the group, and that’s a flaw of the system which should be fixed.

nexxe.7081:

NikeEU.7690:

Scar.1793:

quite sad it’s always the same old stats even after 3 years

Why is that sad? We have the same dodge button and we have had 3 years to get good at the game. What would really be sad is if 3 years later we all still needed/wanted to wear tanky gear because we were so bad at the game.

Because it becomes less choice than even a trinity mmo. At least in a trinity mmo, you can have 3 roles.

And yes, people will respond that there are choices, but choosing a less optimal build/gear is non-productive to the group, and that’s a flaw of the system which should be fixed.

If you play guard your role is: DPS, reflects, condition removal, blinds, boons (aegis, protection,…)
If you play ele your role is: DPS, (maybe blinds), boons (Fury, Might)
If you play thief your role is: DPS, stealth, blinds, projectile defence

So I already found more than 3 different roles with just these classes. The difference is just that you have more than one role. I don’t get why this is less diverse.

MattyP.6954:

NikeEU.7690:

You’re tilting at windmills. If you don’t want to pug with wannabe elitist pugs you don’t have to. Most LFG descriptions are very accurate and you are free to start your own anything-goes, no-stacking group. Your complaints are essentially that you don’t want to be told how to play when you join other people’s groups, which I’m sorry to say, is a personal issue not a game issue.

Why would anet need anti-stacking mechanics when stacking doesn’t do anything? Do you understand why people stack and what it accomplishes or doesn’t accomplish? Are you going to continue to be kitten about a topic you clearly don’t understand?

I didn’t realize I was so lucky as to be speaking to the duly-elected representative of the Dungeon Community. That being said, the majority of the community probably doesn’t keep up to date with metabattle.

The irony is you first sentence is dripping with sarcasm but you have no idea that its basically true. The second part of your sentence reveals your flawed thinking: wannabe elitist scrub pugs aren’t in the dungeon community any more than the rally bots who follow commanders in WvW and dont come on TS are in the WvW community.

Wait, you are the elected representative of the Dungeon Community? That’s crazy… When was the election held?

And yeah… people who play dungeons regularly are kind of in the “Dungeon Community”, unless you really are some sort of elected official who gets to determine membership in your club.

But please, continue to tell me how No True Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge.

As to your other point, I pretty clearly state that it was a Game Community issue, as well as a game content issue.

(And yes, stacking benefits in providing instant contact to downed allies for res, sitting in combo fields without effort, and LOSing adds when they spawn, forcing them into melee range. If it wasn’t at all beneficial, people wouldn’t do it.)

Also, when 5 strangers randomly meet to run a dungeon, who gets to play dictator? Do we have to run an election?

There is no “election” in the “Dungeon Community”, you become “a part of it” when you understand how dungeons are cleared most efficiently and why it works that way. You obviously lack that understanding, as your last paragraph shows.

Lyphos.1096:

nexxe.7081:

NikeEU.7690:

Scar.1793:

quite sad it’s always the same old stats even after 3 years

Why is that sad? We have the same dodge button and we have had 3 years to get good at the game. What would really be sad is if 3 years later we all still needed/wanted to wear tanky gear because we were so bad at the game.

Because it becomes less choice than even a trinity mmo. At least in a trinity mmo, you can have 3 roles.

And yes, people will respond that there are choices, but choosing a less optimal build/gear is non-productive to the group, and that’s a flaw of the system which should be fixed.

If you play guard your role is: DPS, reflects, condition removal, blinds, boons (aegis, protection,…)
If you play ele your role is: DPS, (maybe blinds), boons (Fury, Might)
If you play thief your role is: DPS, stealth, blinds, projectile defence

So I already found more than 3 different roles with just these classes. The difference is just that you have more than one role. I don’t get why this is less diverse.

Yes, but those are skills, and not traits and gear. The “zerker” builds deal with traits and gear, and to a lesser extent even skills. No sane group would take a Toughness, Healing, and Vitality person with traits and skills that don’t have Power or Precision.

Wuselknusel.4082:

There is no “election” in the “Dungeon Community”, you become “a part of it” when you understand how dungeons are cleared most efficiently and why it works that way. You obviously lack that understanding, as your last paragraph shows.

“O ignorant child, how I pity thee, for you have not studied the subject of advanced dungeon theorycrafting! Small one, you are not privileged to be part of our Dungeon Community! Go, go away! The Reason is with us. We are the Efficient Ones.”

DiogoSilva.7089:

Wuselknusel.4082:

There is no “election” in the “Dungeon Community”, you become “a part of it” when you understand how dungeons are cleared most efficiently and why it works that way. You obviously lack that understanding, as your last paragraph shows.

“O ignorant child, how I pity thee, for you have not studied the subject of advanced dungeon theorycrafting! Small one, you are not privileged to be part of our Dungeon Community! Go, go away! The Reason is with us. We are the Efficient Ones.”

“We” are not the ones coming to this forum, crying about things you don’t understand.
“We” are the ones who correct you. “You” are the ones calling “us” “elitists”.

Wuselknusel.4082:

“We” are not the ones coming to this forum, crying about things you don’t understand.
“We” are the ones who correct you. “You” are the ones calling “us” “elitists”.

The problem is not with the information, but with the tone of the posts.

GW2’s dungeons are not exactly well-implemented. The encounter design does not take full advantage of GW2’s combat depth, and Anet itself has been admitting that for several times lately. For a combat system that is designed around mobility, the fact that you can stack in corners and DPS a boss to death demonstrates very clearly that there is a problem here. And there’s not much to “understand” in this regard. It’s a widely accepted point of view that even anet’s devs share.

That stacking is or is not the best strategy is not very relevant. The fact that it works – and by that, I mean the fact that you can very easily beat dungeon content while stacking, regardless if it’s the most effective strategy or not – is itself a problem.