Guild Wars 2

I certainly don’t understand why enemies in expansion are so hard to deal with, I just want to do my own things and explore the map. it’s certainly not fun at all to see enemies respawn every 1min nuking event npc and hp challenge is gated by champions, like I bought this expansion to suffer more. I’ll check this game again in another year or 2 hoping Anet would recover from HoT launch disaster.

sincerely, the guy who pre-ordered HoT

Which are you having issues with? I’m sure that myself or others could let you know what the mechanics are for each enemy type.

HoT enemies are not hard, you just have to learn mechanics.

Threads like this are the reason we need a better core game -.-

LouWolfskin.3492:

HoT enemies are not hard, you just have to learn mechanics.

Threads like this are the reason we need a better core game -.-

Don’t exaggerate. Some enemies like veteran frogs can wreck some classes.

Making it through the karka infested tunnels during map exploration can be a pain in the kitten as well.

And Balthazar’s HP is pretty much impossible to solo for most people.

Problem isn’t the enemies themselves, but the event and mob density scaling when a map is completely abandoned and a player has to sift through instant respawn times of veteran mobs by himself.

These are ultimately maps designed for groups of people, not solo players like the vanilla maps.

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

HoT enemies are not hard, you just have to learn mechanics.

Threads like this are the reason we need a better core game -.-

Don’t exaggerate. Some enemies like veteran frogs can wreck some classes.

Making it through the karka infested tunnels during map exploration can be a pain in the kitten as well.

And Balthazar’s HP is pretty much impossible to solo for most people.

Problem isn’t the enemies themselves, but the event and mob density scaling when a map is completely abandoned and a player has to sift through instant respawn times of veteran mobs by himself.

These are ultimately maps designed for groups of people, not solo players like the vanilla maps.

So? We have stuff that you can’t do solo in core tyria as well.
Thing is, HoT was marketed as group content, and people are surprised it’s harder for solo how?
A lot of the stuff, not everything, is still possible to do and for the rest you can ask in mapchat or your guild for help.
The best way to enjoy the content though is: Play with a friend.
Because at the core of it this is an MMO “massive multiplayer online” you see one thing there? Multiplayer, it’s a key word.

Addendum: A lot of it is learning mechanics, mechanics that the core game should teach you but doesn’t.

LouWolfskin.3492:

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

HoT enemies are not hard, you just have to learn mechanics.

Threads like this are the reason we need a better core game -.-

Don’t exaggerate. Some enemies like veteran frogs can wreck some classes.

Making it through the karka infested tunnels during map exploration can be a pain in the kitten as well.

And Balthazar’s HP is pretty much impossible to solo for most people.

Problem isn’t the enemies themselves, but the event and mob density scaling when a map is completely abandoned and a player has to sift through instant respawn times of veteran mobs by himself.

These are ultimately maps designed for groups of people, not solo players like the vanilla maps.

So? We have stuff that you can’t do solo in core tyria as well.
Thing is, HoT was marketed as group content, and people are surprised it’s harder for solo how?
A lot of the stuff, not everything, is still possible to do and for the rest you can ask in mapchat or your guild for help.
The best way to enjoy the content though is: Play with a friend.
Because at the core of it this is an MMO “massive multiplayer online” you see one thing there? Multiplayer, it’s a key word.

Addendum: A lot of it is learning mechanics, mechanics that the core game should teach you but doesn’t.

HoT maps were never marketed as group content any more so than core Tyria was, don’t make crap up. They even nerfed mobs in beta because they were even worse than they are now.

“Play with a friend”. That’s a wonderful way to limit your customer base. That’s what Wildstar did " Hey, you want to raid or do these quetes out in the world? Get 20 or 40 people to do them."

See where that got them.

The problem is when you create content that requires population density, that content breaks apart when there is no longer population density. Look at most of the core Tyria maps, look at Dry Top when there aren’t organized guilds running them. They are ghost towns. The gameplay slows to a crawl.

The whole reason they revamped fractals was precisely because they wanted to make content more accessible, with less investment into long sessions with a group. Even the GW2 raids are super short compared to the ones in WoW, FFXIV, or Wildstar.

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

HoT enemies are not hard, you just have to learn mechanics.

Threads like this are the reason we need a better core game -.-

Don’t exaggerate. Some enemies like veteran frogs can wreck some classes.

Making it through the karka infested tunnels during map exploration can be a pain in the kitten as well.

And Balthazar’s HP is pretty much impossible to solo for most people.

Problem isn’t the enemies themselves, but the event and mob density scaling when a map is completely abandoned and a player has to sift through instant respawn times of veteran mobs by himself.

These are ultimately maps designed for groups of people, not solo players like the vanilla maps.

So? We have stuff that you can’t do solo in core tyria as well.
Thing is, HoT was marketed as group content, and people are surprised it’s harder for solo how?
A lot of the stuff, not everything, is still possible to do and for the rest you can ask in mapchat or your guild for help.
The best way to enjoy the content though is: Play with a friend.
Because at the core of it this is an MMO “massive multiplayer online” you see one thing there? Multiplayer, it’s a key word.

Addendum: A lot of it is learning mechanics, mechanics that the core game should teach you but doesn’t.

HoT maps were never marketed as group content any more so than core Tyria was, don’t make crap up. They even nerfed mobs in beta because they were even worse than they are now.

“Play with a friend”. That’s a wonderful way to limit your customer base. That’s what Wildstar did " Hey, you want to raid or do these quetes out in the world? Get 20 or 40 people to do them."

See where that got them.

The problem is when you create content that requires population density, that content breaks apart when there is no longer population density. Look at most of the core Tyria maps, look at Dry Top when there aren’t organized guilds running them. They are ghost towns. The gameplay slows to a crawl.

The whole reason they revamped fractals was precisely because they wanted to make content more accessible, with less investment into long sessions with a group. Even the GW2 raids are super short compared to the ones in WoW, FFXIV, or Wildstar.

I said the best way. It’s still a multiplayer game and while you may not like it, it shouldn’t cater to everyone running around alone.
You can do a lot solo in HoT just by simply changing your build up a little.
And i still think the biggest problem here is the core game, it teaches you nothing, hell, there are threads that freakin Orr is too hard as content.
The game basically gives you every tool to succed in this content and if that isn’t enough and even asking for help from guilds or friends sometimes i’m sorry why are you playing a game that is setup for play with other people then?

Enemies in HoT maps are more challenging, but given the story situation / events for them that’s sort of the point, the environment should feel a lot more threatening and hazardous for an individual to wander around in.

I died a lot when I first arrived in Verdant Brink, which frustrated me, but then I realised I just had to pay more attention and be a bit more cleaver in combat. Now I have no issues, and I play solo ele, so you can survive and explore the maps with a more squishy class.

Personally I think the more challenging maps not only make sense for the story, but also help people become better at combat. You just can’t expect to wade into a large mob, stand in one place and kill them with a couple of attacks and no effort, like you can in most of Tyria.

I’ll agree some hero points you can’t solo, but being its an MMO, you should really expect to have to team up with some people for things from time to time. Just put a call out for help with a hp in map chat, this game has a great community and there are always people who will respond to help (obviously no so much during a key meta). Half the time for the unsoloable hps there are always people asking for help, so team up with them when they do. Use the lfg to start a party, join one of the hp runs that are frequently there.

Of course it’s your choice, but to me it seems pretty backwards that you will take a break for ‘a year or two’ just because there are a few things you can’t solo.

LouWolfskin.3492:

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

HoT enemies are not hard, you just have to learn mechanics.

Threads like this are the reason we need a better core game -.-

Don’t exaggerate. Some enemies like veteran frogs can wreck some classes.

Making it through the karka infested tunnels during map exploration can be a pain in the kitten as well.

And Balthazar’s HP is pretty much impossible to solo for most people.

Problem isn’t the enemies themselves, but the event and mob density scaling when a map is completely abandoned and a player has to sift through instant respawn times of veteran mobs by himself.

These are ultimately maps designed for groups of people, not solo players like the vanilla maps.

So? We have stuff that you can’t do solo in core tyria as well.
Thing is, HoT was marketed as group content, and people are surprised it’s harder for solo how?
A lot of the stuff, not everything, is still possible to do and for the rest you can ask in mapchat or your guild for help.
The best way to enjoy the content though is: Play with a friend.
Because at the core of it this is an MMO “massive multiplayer online” you see one thing there? Multiplayer, it’s a key word.

Addendum: A lot of it is learning mechanics, mechanics that the core game should teach you but doesn’t.

HoT maps were never marketed as group content any more so than core Tyria was, don’t make crap up. They even nerfed mobs in beta because they were even worse than they are now.

“Play with a friend”. That’s a wonderful way to limit your customer base. That’s what Wildstar did " Hey, you want to raid or do these quetes out in the world? Get 20 or 40 people to do them."

See where that got them.

The problem is when you create content that requires population density, that content breaks apart when there is no longer population density. Look at most of the core Tyria maps, look at Dry Top when there aren’t organized guilds running them. They are ghost towns. The gameplay slows to a crawl.

The whole reason they revamped fractals was precisely because they wanted to make content more accessible, with less investment into long sessions with a group. Even the GW2 raids are super short compared to the ones in WoW, FFXIV, or Wildstar.

I said the best way. It’s still a multiplayer game and while you may not like it, it shouldn’t cater to everyone running around alone.
You can do a lot solo in HoT just by simply changing your build up a little.
And i still think the biggest problem here is the core game, it teaches you nothing, hell, there are threads that freakin Orr is too hard as content.
The game basically gives you every tool to succed in this content and if that isn’t enough and even asking for help from guilds or friends sometimes i’m sorry why are you playing a game that is setup for play with other people then?

I was speaking from their perspective. I have no problem grouping.

But I can see where not everyone has the lifestyle to support set play schedules that allow for grouping. Sometimes people can only play in mornings or during graveyard shifts.

Those people understandably want the game to still be accessible for them.

Make a set of gear for open world if you have an issue.

For example – mainly I play condi engi, but sometimes I am exhausted from the job, so I made perma 7 boon scrapper(commy/wanderer stats, rune of durability, traits-pvp power hammer with tweaks for perma quickness). Thanks for this I can only drink elixirs, toss them for full buff, and almost only use hammer aa(with acid bomb, thunderclap and electrowhirl) where enemy hit me in berserk for 3k, now hit me for 1100. Solo dmg is bigger too(perma quick, 25migh, perma fury).

Try to adapt your gameplay, there is no hard content, I don’t know what class you play, but you should activate your creativity and don’t blindly follow meta. Theese builds are mostly effective in team-play.

If you are frustrated too much, just send me massege here and I will try help you

ArenaNet always wanted to be more challenging, but the farther they go, the more players they’ll lose. They blanket nerfed the core game back in beta by like 50%, basically because of the WoW players. I’d expect the same here. Without vertical progression, those who can’t will never be able to.

What people don’t realize is that the average casual player is likely going to walk into HoT wearing what the personal story provided, meaning rares without runes and no earrings. Their build is likely going to be random, which is why traits were originally simplified. Since this type of person is only playing for the fun of it, they’re likely going to quit early on or struggle through it once and never again. There’s a reason why solo content is a joke in almost every MMO.

Healix.5819:

ArenaNet always wanted to be more challenging, but the farther they go, the more players they’ll lose. They blanket nerfed the core game back in beta by like 50%, basically because of the WoW players. I’d expect the same here. Without vertical progression, those who can’t will never be able to.

What people don’t realize is that the average casual player is likely going to walk into HoT wearing what the personal story provided, meaning rares without runes and no earrings. Their build is likely going to be random, which is why traits were originally simplified. Since this type of person is only playing for the fun of it, they’re likely going to quit early on or struggle through it once and never again. There’s a reason why solo content is a joke in almost every MMO.

It’s one of the reasons i never liked the new player-experience when it came out.
Yes, i made characters to test out how it feels.
This may be just me but i think you level to fast and you gain too much simply through completing the personal story.
Back when the game was released my friends and i were actually pitching together to craft our first rare gear when it was available at lvl 35 and did dungeons like Ascalon and the sort when we hit the level requirement.
The gear helped, since it did provide better stats, and since we were rather slow back then in terms of gaining levels it was actually fun to experiment and look at what works and not.

All of that is missing now.
Hell, the biggest issue for me is right when you gain your first extra skill slot.
You get a skill for free, okay, great.
It’s a condition counter….
Not only that, there is a pop-up, that, let’s be honest, most people will click away without reading that says: Enemies often use condition to further harm you, use condition counter skills to level the playing field.

Now why does this bug me so?
Your first extra slot? You gain it at lvl 13.
Enemies under Lvl 15, so everything in the starter areas, had their conditions removed, with rare exceptions.
So the game gives you something to help you, and later on you may need condition counters, but for the next, let’s say, 40 levels you’ll hardly ever feel as if such a skill would be really helpful.

Same goes for some other stuff, warrior shield for example, you can use it in PvE, sure, but where is it really useful?
There’s a reason it is so looked down upon, most enemies can hardly take a hit and don’t really attack you fast enough to make a block skill like that valuable.
In HoT i’d argue there would be more incentive, even if you don’t need it you can feel more rewarded with it.

I could go on about this, CC for example, there are events and enemies where you need every bit of CC you can get that fail, or at least take triple the time, because players just don’t know how to dish out control with their respective classes.
Why? Because for 90%, maybe even closer to 99%, of the coregame you don’t need it.

Hell, there are Revenants that dodge out of my Rev’s Tablet-Projectile Counter in some Events because they don’t know what the tablet is or does.
Well, how would they?
Most new players just look up guides or are directed by other players to them and never try to look up anything outside such “good” builds.

It goes on and on…
In the end this whole debacle is a double edged sword.
Some of it is definetly the fault of the developer, but no game is perfect, and some of it is the fault of the player, but hey, we are all humans and the easiest way is always prefered (i guess).

Ok tell me whats more fulfilling – kicking a vets kitten whilst having and enjoyable fight – using your skills,dodging etc or just walking to the vet and 1shot him ? In real life we count on our abilities to get us thru situations – im sure this applies to any of the armed forces so the same applies within the game . Last week i was helping a few players get hp in vb/ab and i was using a mes ( one of my least used chrs and im not that gd with ) and the whole experience was totally enjoyable – i had fun and at the end of the run i actually felt i had achieved something and learnt a few new tricks. We Learn and we Adapt . Hot foes are harder but after some time they become easier as you recognise little traits the foes have – spotting the foe getting rdy to charge or pull off his aoe so you get rdy to dodge etc. All players at some stage ( tho not all will admit ) can feel overwhelmed by foes when first encountered – hell several guildies hated pocket raptors at the start because of their swarm mechanics and now they dont bat an eyelid when coming up against them.

I shouldn’t even jump into another post about how hard HoT is. I have soloed every inch of it on 3 different chars except for the metas and some hero points.

At first it did seem hard I was still decked in berserker armor I changed it up on engineer went 50% valk 50% berserker turned to scrapper changed a few traits around changed few my foods/utility effects showed them mordrem what it was all about. Had wonderful time soloing it hope the next expansion is equally as hard maybe even little tougher. I like little learning curve in my games then again been a gamer a very long time (33 yrs) maybe why i find it to easy(base gw2) or just right(HoT)?

Change your build a little for HoT don’t expect base gw2 build to work in HoT because it may not depending armor you use. You dying alot then start using power/toughness builds. At least until you learn enemies how to work them over once you feel confident switch back to paper armor.

LouWolfskin.3492:

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

HoT enemies are not hard, you just have to learn mechanics.

Threads like this are the reason we need a better core game -.-

Don’t exaggerate. Some enemies like veteran frogs can wreck some classes.

Making it through the karka infested tunnels during map exploration can be a pain in the kitten as well.

And Balthazar’s HP is pretty much impossible to solo for most people.

Problem isn’t the enemies themselves, but the event and mob density scaling when a map is completely abandoned and a player has to sift through instant respawn times of veteran mobs by himself.

These are ultimately maps designed for groups of people, not solo players like the vanilla maps.

So? We have stuff that you can’t do solo in core tyria as well.
Thing is, HoT was marketed as group content, and people are surprised it’s harder for solo how?
A lot of the stuff, not everything, is still possible to do and for the rest you can ask in mapchat or your guild for help.
The best way to enjoy the content though is: Play with a friend.
Because at the core of it this is an MMO “massive multiplayer online” you see one thing there? Multiplayer, it’s a key word.

Addendum: A lot of it is learning mechanics, mechanics that the core game should teach you but doesn’t.

Not that I disagree with you but I will point this out;
MMO only has the word multiplayer in it…meaning multiple players on the same map. That does NOT mean they are grouping with you or even helping you.

MMO=/=group content it simply means multiple people all playing ont he same servers/maps. That is all.

Spiritz Wamphryi.8316:

Ok tell me whats more fulfilling – kicking a vets kitten whilst having and enjoyable fight – using your skills,dodging etc or just walking to the vet and 1shot him ? In real life we count on our abilities to get us thru situations – im sure this applies to any of the armed forces so the same applies within the game . Last week i was helping a few players get hp in vb/ab and i was using a mes ( one of my least used chrs and im not that gd with ) and the whole experience was totally enjoyable – i had fun and at the end of the run i actually felt i had achieved something and learnt a few new tricks. We Learn and we Adapt . Hot foes are harder but after some time they become easier as you recognise little traits the foes have – spotting the foe getting rdy to charge or pull off his aoe so you get rdy to dodge etc. All players at some stage ( tho not all will admit ) can feel overwhelmed by foes when first encountered – hell several guildies hated pocket raptors at the start because of their swarm mechanics and now they dont bat an eyelid when coming up against them.

There is a bit of irony here, as in RL as you alluded to in your example, you DO one shot people. Nearly all melee combat is one shotting people. Most people died in melee combat without even being able to block or parry a single attack. Note also that “heavy armor” all of our soldier classes wear? most soldiers never actually got to wear true heavy armor…they made do with leather armor because it was cheaper and easier to mass produce. So relying on armor to protect you was a luxury most couldn’t afford.

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

HoT enemies are not hard, you just have to learn mechanics.

Threads like this are the reason we need a better core game -.-

Don’t exaggerate. Some enemies like veteran frogs can wreck some classes.

… and if you know your class, even those wrecked ones can deal with veteran frogs. He’s not exaggerating at all.

You’re right, UNO. I’ve given up on seriously mapping HoT zones because they’re just too hard. I only do them on dailies now, and only daily event days if forced (due to some other thing that’s hard or impossible for me to get to).

I just have too many fun things to do with my time. HoT zones are nearly all garbage.

But, the new Living Story stuff shows that they learned their lessons. The mobs don’t respawn you to death, the events are do-able solo (unless they’re group events), and the maps are map-able. I just wish they would fix the mess in the original HoT zones to match.

killermanjaro.5670:

… Just put a call out for help with a hp in map chat, this game has a great community and there are always people who will respond to help (obviously no so much during a key meta).

No, the vast majority ignore you. Unless there’s a meta going on, in which case they’ll make you feel like you should leave so they can do their meta without you.

I can’t compare to raids or pvp, but HoT zones are populated with extremely unfriendly people, far more so than any other areas of Tyria.

Daddicus.6128:

killermanjaro.5670:

… Just put a call out for help with a hp in map chat, this game has a great community and there are always people who will respond to help (obviously no so much during a key meta).

No, the vast majority ignore you. Unless there’s a meta going on, in which case they’ll make you feel like you should leave so they can do their meta without you.

I can’t compare to raids or pvp, but HoT zones are populated with extremely unfriendly people, far more so than any other areas of Tyria.

Oh, right. Because the type of player who would enjoy HoT is also the type of player who spits on children and kicks puppies. No bias here! No sir!

As one of those horrible players who loves HoT and has spent countless hours helping others achieve various objectives, I resent your words. Just yesterday morning I spent 2-3 hours before work helping a new player get their elite spec unlocked and find mastery points. We ran through much of VB and some of AB as well, and I promised to help them with TD as well. And why not? It’s my favorite map anyway. And I made a new friend in the bargain!

Now please excuse me while I return to my usual activities of spitting on children and kicking puppies.

HoT is my wall. Iove GW2 and have a few characters that have reached 80. Everytime I try and play through HoT, I last a few days and then get burned out and quit the game. I have come back several time because I get the GW2 itch, but usually I play lower level characters. I will log into my characters sitting in HoT, play them for an hour or two and then remember why I quit playing GW2. HoT is crap, that is simply how I feel. I think they alienated a huge amount of their fan base with that expac. I really hope they go back to their roots with the next expac.

I enjoyed the original GW2 so much I leveled each of every class because it was so fun. I’ve played the expansion and can play it solo but it is a maze. I won’t be leveling each class in the expansion. I also hope they go back to their roots.

Every class in the game has been given the tools required to survive pretty much all the HoT content. I know because I did it, as a solo player, because I am a SURVIVOR! I don’t lie down on the ground and DIE as soon as I get nibbled by pocket raptors, and when I get trailed by snipers, or rolled over by devils! I FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL FOR MY RIGHT TO SURVIVE!

Often I fail, but that’s a minor setback because there’s no penalty other than having to run back to where I were.

As I said, you have been given the tools to survive… You just need to learn which to use where and when.

AliamRationem.5172:

Oh, right. Because the type of player who would enjoy HoT is also the type of player who spits on children and kicks puppies. No bias here! No sir!

As one of those horrible players who loves HoT and has spent countless hours helping others achieve various objectives, I resent your words. Just yesterday morning I spent 2-3 hours before work helping a new player get their elite spec unlocked and find mastery points. We ran through much of VB and some of AB as well, and I promised to help them with TD as well. And why not? It’s my favorite map anyway. And I made a new friend in the bargain!

Now please excuse me while I return to my usual activities of spitting on children and kicking puppies.

Whether you are helpful or not has no bearing on the argument. I said “the vast majority”, and that comes from actual experience. 9 times out of 10 if I ask a question, there is no reply. If a meta is going on, it’s 7-8 out of 10, but the extra ones will demand that I get off the map.

In core Tyria, it’s about 1-2 out of 10 tries. There’s just no comparison, really.

Daddicus.6128:

AliamRationem.5172:

Oh, right. Because the type of player who would enjoy HoT is also the type of player who spits on children and kicks puppies. No bias here! No sir!

As one of those horrible players who loves HoT and has spent countless hours helping others achieve various objectives, I resent your words. Just yesterday morning I spent 2-3 hours before work helping a new player get their elite spec unlocked and find mastery points. We ran through much of VB and some of AB as well, and I promised to help them with TD as well. And why not? It’s my favorite map anyway. And I made a new friend in the bargain!

Now please excuse me while I return to my usual activities of spitting on children and kicking puppies.

Whether you are helpful or not has no bearing on the argument. I said “the vast majority”, and that comes from actual experience. 9 times out of 10 if I ask a question, there is no reply. If a meta is going on, it’s 7-8 out of 10, but the extra ones will demand that I get off the map.

In core Tyria, it’s about 1-2 out of 10 tries. There’s just no comparison, really.

Whatever you say, bud. The fact is you’re sour on HoT and it has nothing to do with the type of people who play it because they’re the same people. If you’re suggesting otherwise, then I’d say my words were pretty accurate about your outlook.

Daddicus makes a sound point, though. It’s basically the same people, but different circumstances. It’s usually perfectly safe to stop and help someone in the core maps. In HoT that could often mean you ending up dead next to ‘em, and a long way from the nearest WP. Lot’s of people would probably like to help but decided against the risk.

As a general rule people’s attitudes and behaviour tend to worsen as content gets harder.

Jahroots.6791:

Daddicus makes a sound point, though. It’s basically the same people, but different circumstances. It’s usually perfectly safe to stop and help someone in the core maps. In HoT that could often mean you ending up dead next to ‘em, and a long way from the nearest WP. Lot’s of people would probably like to help but decided against the risk.

As a general rule people’s attitudes and behaviour tend to worsen as content gets harder.

For me its not about the risk. HoTs content is more challenging than core Tyria, but not to the point of being unenjoyable. I enjoy the fights. Its about getting to where the player requesting help is, and getting back after.

I help in the core game, with advice or by showing up, but HoT encourages me to not bother…it will take me too long to find my way to where they need me (like as not they will have given up before I can get there), so why bother!

So when do topics like these become dead horses? Because this has felt like beating a carcass for months already. I’ve soloed every HP and completed each map to 100% in HoT on an engi. A condi engi. I have nothing but my base toughness and vitality going for me. Some of them are definitely hard, but they’re doable. I’ve got my elite spec unlocked on every class. Most of them entirely on my own. All it takes is time to learn mechanics, like everyone keeps saying.

Ashen.2907:

Jahroots.6791:

Daddicus makes a sound point, though. It’s basically the same people, but different circumstances. It’s usually perfectly safe to stop and help someone in the core maps. In HoT that could often mean you ending up dead next to ‘em, and a long way from the nearest WP. Lot’s of people would probably like to help but decided against the risk.

As a general rule people’s attitudes and behaviour tend to worsen as content gets harder.

For me its not about the risk. HoTs content is more challenging than core Tyria, but not to the point of being unenjoyable. I enjoy the fights. Its about getting to where the player requesting help is, and getting back after.

I help in the core game, with advice or by showing up, but HoT encourages me to not bother…it will take me too long to find my way to where they need me (like as not they will have given up before I can get there), so why bother!

How does HoT discourage you from offering advice? Are you claiming you’re too busy fighting for your life to find a safe spot or a moment to send a chat message? This is objectively false. I assure you that if we took a walk around any HoT map it would take only a few seconds to find a safe point to chat from any given spot the map. The mob density is higher, but it isn’t THAT high!

As for reaching the point? Assuming you actually spend enough time to become familiar with the maps, it’s not much of an issue. Did you know you can reach every waypoint in Tangled Depths in less than 10 minutes starting from the entry point from AB? I’m pretty sure I could never do that in Queensdale!

We have gliding and the terrain to take advantage of it. We have updrafts and bounce mushrooms and wallows. Getting around may not be as simple as walking a straight line, but it doesn’t necessarily take any longer and often takes less time because you can simply bypass contested waypoints altogether.

AliamRationem.5172:

How does HoT discourage you from offering advice?

I suspect it’s twofold:

First, people are busier. They can’t answer a question without jeopardizing their own situation. I suspect this is the lion’s share of the reason.

Second, there’s an attitude among HoT players that those who don’t know things (unique to HoT) simply need to learn how to play better. You can see this attitude plainly on these forums.

AliamRationem.5172:

Ashen.2907:

Jahroots.6791:

Daddicus makes a sound point, though. It’s basically the same people, but different circumstances. It’s usually perfectly safe to stop and help someone in the core maps. In HoT that could often mean you ending up dead next to ‘em, and a long way from the nearest WP. Lot’s of people would probably like to help but decided against the risk.

As a general rule people’s attitudes and behaviour tend to worsen as content gets harder.

For me its not about the risk. HoTs content is more challenging than core Tyria, but not to the point of being unenjoyable. I enjoy the fights. Its about getting to where the player requesting help is, and getting back after.

I help in the core game, with advice or by showing up, but HoT encourages me to not bother…it will take me too long to find my way to where they need me (like as not they will have given up before I can get there), so why bother!

How does HoT discourage you from offering advice? Are you claiming you’re too busy fighting for your life to find a safe spot or a moment to send a chat message? This is objectively false. I assure you that if we took a walk around any HoT map it would take only a few seconds to find a safe point to chat from any given spot the map. The mob density is higher, but it isn’t THAT high!

As for reaching the point? Assuming you actually spend enough time to become familiar with the maps, it’s not much of an issue. Did you know you can reach every waypoint in Tangled Depths in less than 10 minutes starting from the entry point from AB? I’m pretty sure I could never do that in Queensdale!

We have gliding and the terrain to take advantage of it. We have updrafts and bounce mushrooms and wallows. Getting around may not be as simple as walking a straight line, but it doesn’t necessarily take any longer and often takes less time because you can simply bypass contested waypoints altogether.

My apologies for not being clear. Its the showing up part that I dont do in HoT.

I can reach pretty much any point in Queensdale from any other point in less than a minute. I actually like the reduction in WP in the HoT and post HoT maps, what I dont enjoy is the maze-like, mario-like, navigation.

If someone is asking for help at location X, needing to navigate a maze, or play a mario game, to get to them means either not being able to get to them in time to be of assistance, or not getting there at all. Too bad, one of my favorite aspects of online gaming is helping others. Less of an option for that in GW2, core content is faceroll easy and getting to the people asking for help is a struggle in HoT.

^^ I believe that is a significant reason of the isolation of needy players in HoT … though that’s still no excuse for players having difficulty to complain. Personally, i think random calls for help or questions in chat are the worst ways to get something accomplished in an MMO, especially in one where you are expected to socialize, join a guild, do things in teams (i.e., the existence of the meta is a hint to that). When I see these complaints on the forums, I really have to wonder if these people have made a genuine effort to exercise all their options to complete content. I can’t believe they have, given all the instances of people being successful. No, they are just not trying hard enough. They aren’t so special that many others can get things done and they can’t.

Daddicus.6128:

AliamRationem.5172:

How does HoT discourage you from offering advice?

I suspect it’s twofold:

First, people are busier. They can’t answer a question without jeopardizing their own situation. I suspect this is the lion’s share of the reason.

Second, there’s an attitude among HoT players that those who don’t know things (unique to HoT) simply need to learn how to play better. You can see this attitude plainly on these forums.

there’s is no such thing as a ‘hot’ player, there are only players. The facts speak for themselves, if you are unwilling to learn and adapt then you will not in fact not learn and adapt

Consider that It’s not actually other peoples attitude that is at fault here, they are over there happily grouping up with others or doing whatever they enjoy doing.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Daddicus.6128:

Second, there’s an attitude among HoT players that those who don’t know things (unique to HoT) simply need to learn how to play better. You can see this attitude plainly on these forums.

there’s is no such thing as a ‘hot’ player, there are only players. The facts speak for themselves, if you are unwilling to learn and adapt then you will not in fact not learn and adapt

Consider that It’s not actually other peoples attitude that is at fault here, they are over there happily grouping up with others or doing whatever they enjoy doing.

Thank you for displaying my point so well.

Daddicus.6128:

AliamRationem.5172:

How does HoT discourage you from offering advice?

I suspect it’s twofold:

First, people are busier. They can’t answer a question without jeopardizing their own situation. I suspect this is the lion’s share of the reason.

Second, there’s an attitude among HoT players that those who don’t know things (unique to HoT) simply need to learn how to play better. You can see this attitude plainly on these forums.

Again, there is nowhere in any HoT map that you can’t find a safe place to chat within seconds. That you might be fighting something at the exact moment a call for help appears in map chat is not an issue specific to HoT maps.

There is no attitude among HoT players because HoT players are not a uniform group. Further, had you considered that complaining about something other players like while also disparaging them might invite the L2P comments you associate with HoT players?

You can believe what you want to believe, but I don’t usually waste my time telling others they need to learn to play. Instead, I offer my time to assist them. All I need is an excuse to play the maps I enjoy. So it’s fun for me and I tend to make new friends in the process. I don’t think that’s at all unusual, as evidenced by others I see routinely offering their assistance in threads on this subject.

Daddicus.6128:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Daddicus.6128:

Second, there’s an attitude among HoT players that those who don’t know things (unique to HoT) simply need to learn how to play better. You can see this attitude plainly on these forums.

there’s is no such thing as a ‘hot’ player, there are only players. The facts speak for themselves, if you are unwilling to learn and adapt then you will not in fact not learn and adapt

Consider that It’s not actually other peoples attitude that is at fault here, they are over there happily grouping up with others or doing whatever they enjoy doing.

Thank you for displaying my point so well.

He didn’t make your point at all. He explained why someone might not answer, which doesn’t necessarily make them unhelpful. In order to answer a question you have to see/notice a question.

I don’t always have time to read map chat, which doesn’t make my unhelpful. I answer every question I can, when I see them.

So, what op is basically saying: “I want everything and I want it now.”

I think Anet made one crucial mistake in their marketing. They didn’t tell us it’s multiplayer game. So when next expansion is announced then Anet should market it under “Multiplayer Game” tag. That way people will be less confused when they buy the this MMORPG’s expa… oh wait.

Runiir.6425:

It is simple really, story content should be soloable in the extreme. It is story and seeing as everyone pays for the game then everyone should experience the story on their time without limitations. If you need others you aren’t playing on your time anymore you are playing on theirs.

Why should they be soloed to the extreme? This is a MMO…. last I checked there is no 1 player mode….

Vayne.8563:

You’re assuming people see your question, which is a terrible assumption. I’m not always reading mapchat if I’m in voice with my guild for example. Or people are helping other people, or fighting and don’t have the time to answer that question. Doesn’t make them unhelpful.

At any rate, I see plenty of questions in map chat replied to. If someone else replies than I don’t have to, but I would if no one else replied.

I compared it to the same scenario in core Tyria.

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

You’re assuming people see your question, which is a terrible assumption. I’m not always reading mapchat if I’m in voice with my guild for example. Or people are helping other people, or fighting and don’t have the time to answer that question. Doesn’t make them unhelpful.

At any rate, I see plenty of questions in map chat replied to. If someone else replies than I don’t have to, but I would if no one else replied.

I compared it to the same scenario in core Tyria.

To be fair, I am more likely to see chat messages in core Tyria, where I do not really need to pay attention to my character in order to survive (with certain areas being obvious exceptions), than on HoT maps.

Heck, in core tyria Ive had to go afk to handle an emergency only to come back to the computer to find that my ranger’s pet has completed events without me.

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

HoT enemies are not hard, you just have to learn mechanics.

Threads like this are the reason we need a better core game -.-

Don’t exaggerate. Some enemies like veteran frogs can wreck some classes.

Making it through the karka infested tunnels during map exploration can be a pain in the kitten as well.

And Balthazar’s HP is pretty much impossible to solo for most people.

Problem isn’t the enemies themselves, but the event and mob density scaling when a map is completely abandoned and a player has to sift through instant respawn times of veteran mobs by himself.

These are ultimately maps designed for groups of people, not solo players like the vanilla maps.

Vanilla maps were never designed for solo players to do everything in them, they were designed for solo players or not to run around and then when theres a event or a hero point challenge to group and take on on that event hero point. The guy/or grill is right the core maps were very poorly scaled for the power the players have and so you were able to solo faceroll through everything.

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

HoT enemies are not hard, you just have to learn mechanics.

Threads like this are the reason we need a better core game -.-

Don’t exaggerate. Some enemies like veteran frogs can wreck some classes.

Making it through the karka infested tunnels during map exploration can be a pain in the kitten as well.

And Balthazar’s HP is pretty much impossible to solo for most people.

Problem isn’t the enemies themselves, but the event and mob density scaling when a map is completely abandoned and a player has to sift through instant respawn times of veteran mobs by himself.

These are ultimately maps designed for groups of people, not solo players like the vanilla maps.

So? We have stuff that you can’t do solo in core tyria as well.
Thing is, HoT was marketed as group content, and people are surprised it’s harder for solo how?
A lot of the stuff, not everything, is still possible to do and for the rest you can ask in mapchat or your guild for help.
The best way to enjoy the content though is: Play with a friend.
Because at the core of it this is an MMO “massive multiplayer online” you see one thing there? Multiplayer, it’s a key word.

Addendum: A lot of it is learning mechanics, mechanics that the core game should teach you but doesn’t.

HoT maps were never marketed as group content any more so than core Tyria was, don’t make crap up. They even nerfed mobs in beta because they were even worse than they are now.

“Play with a friend”. That’s a wonderful way to limit your customer base. That’s what Wildstar did " Hey, you want to raid or do these quetes out in the world? Get 20 or 40 people to do them."

See where that got them.

The problem is when you create content that requires population density, that content breaks apart when there is no longer population density. Look at most of the core Tyria maps, look at Dry Top when there aren’t organized guilds running them. They are ghost towns. The gameplay slows to a crawl.

The whole reason they revamped fractals was precisely because they wanted to make content more accessible, with less investment into long sessions with a group. Even the GW2 raids are super short compared to the ones in WoW, FFXIV, or Wildstar.

doing the whole first raid isnt shorter than doing the emerald nightmare in wow

zealex.9410:

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Zenith.7301:

LouWolfskin.3492:

HoT enemies are not hard, you just have to learn mechanics.

Threads like this are the reason we need a better core game -.-

Don’t exaggerate. Some enemies like veteran frogs can wreck some classes.

Making it through the karka infested tunnels during map exploration can be a pain in the kitten as well.

And Balthazar’s HP is pretty much impossible to solo for most people.

Problem isn’t the enemies themselves, but the event and mob density scaling when a map is completely abandoned and a player has to sift through instant respawn times of veteran mobs by himself.

These are ultimately maps designed for groups of people, not solo players like the vanilla maps.

So? We have stuff that you can’t do solo in core tyria as well.
Thing is, HoT was marketed as group content, and people are surprised it’s harder for solo how?
A lot of the stuff, not everything, is still possible to do and for the rest you can ask in mapchat or your guild for help.
The best way to enjoy the content though is: Play with a friend.
Because at the core of it this is an MMO “massive multiplayer online” you see one thing there? Multiplayer, it’s a key word.

Addendum: A lot of it is learning mechanics, mechanics that the core game should teach you but doesn’t.

HoT maps were never marketed as group content any more so than core Tyria was, don’t make crap up. They even nerfed mobs in beta because they were even worse than they are now.

“Play with a friend”. That’s a wonderful way to limit your customer base. That’s what Wildstar did " Hey, you want to raid or do these quetes out in the world? Get 20 or 40 people to do them."

See where that got them.

The problem is when you create content that requires population density, that content breaks apart when there is no longer population density. Look at most of the core Tyria maps, look at Dry Top when there aren’t organized guilds running them. They are ghost towns. The gameplay slows to a crawl.

The whole reason they revamped fractals was precisely because they wanted to make content more accessible, with less investment into long sessions with a group. Even the GW2 raids are super short compared to the ones in WoW, FFXIV, or Wildstar.

doing the whole first raid isnt shorter than doing the emerald nightmare in wow

Yeah, I’d love to see your mythic emerald nightmare clear in 45 minutes within the first 2 weeks of the release.

Emerald Nightmare is widely considered a joke raid with improper difficulty curves by most mythic raiders anyways.

Runiir.6425:

There is a bit of irony here, as in RL as you alluded to in your example, you DO one shot people. Nearly all melee combat is one shotting people. Most people died in melee combat without even being able to block or parry a single attack. Note also that “heavy armor” all of our soldier classes wear? most soldiers never actually got to wear true heavy armor…they made do with leather armor because it was cheaper and easier to mass produce. So relying on armor to protect you was a luxury most couldn’t afford.

If you are going to start argumenting with “facts”, atleast try to get them straight.

1. People don’t get 1-shot. Necessarily. You need to actually hit something vital in order to kill someone. Even in that case you do not die instantly, unless you are decapitated. Blows to the head will make you lose consciousness but not kill you instantly. In case your heart is ruptured, you can still operate for about 15 seconds if you can bare the pain. Slashed arteries will bleed you out in minutes but you retain your the use of your body during that time.

2. Never being able to block or parry a single attack? That’s just bogus. Melee battlefield conditions are less hectic and brutal than most people think.
A fun fact: 95% of soldiers during WW1 and WW2 did NOT shoot to kill. Or even shoot at the general direction of the enemy. That leftover 5% was responsible for 50% of the casualties for the opposing side. I’d say the same applies for periods of history that came before these wars.
The US Army, for example, acknowledges this fact and trains their soldiers specifically for shooting to kill. Killing people just goes against the natural instincts of humans, so soldiers are specifically trained to react/shoot before that human instinct kicks in.

3. Leather armor? The only known historic examples of widely spread use of leather armor are from Ancient Greece. Even there they were mostly ceremonial armor. Leather’s cool, right? But historically leather armor is a myth where Europe is concerned. The mongols did use leather “armor”, as in it wasn’t actually armor but rather clothing because they had easier access to hides than fabrics. They relied on their mobility for protection.
The most common form of armor from the early medieval to the renaissance periods was the gambeson, made of several layers of common linen or wool, followed closely by the mail armor. (you will want the gambeson under that mail, so it was uniformly the first piece of armor you would acquire) How widely it was used depends on the region, as an area like Italy is way too warm for using a gambeson, whereas it was common in countries like France or England.
Furthermore, the use of plate armor even among common soldiers became more popular and affordable the more time passed by. Most notably in the 15th and 16th centuries when professional armies emerged. Especially frontline troops such as Swiss Pikemen used full plate armor in order to forego the use of shields. Full plate armors were used commonly for a short period before the use of gunpowder and guns sky-rocketed. At this point, protection was sacrificed for mobility and easier logistics.

Edit: Sorry for derailing but I was triggered.

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

You’re assuming people see your question, which is a terrible assumption. I’m not always reading mapchat if I’m in voice with my guild for example. Or people are helping other people, or fighting and don’t have the time to answer that question. Doesn’t make them unhelpful.

At any rate, I see plenty of questions in map chat replied to. If someone else replies than I don’t have to, but I would if no one else replied.

I compared it to the same scenario in core Tyria.

I chat more in core Tyria than I do in HoT because I can hit 1 in core Tyria, and autoattack everything to death, without worrying about having to move.

I sure wouldn’t try that in most places in HoT. Yes, HOT makes you pay more attention to the game.

Core Tyria, you can type, do your taxes and eat lunch while playing. That’s definitely more engaging content.

Spiritz Wamphryi.8316:

Ok tell me whats more fulfilling – kicking a vets kitten whilst having and enjoyable fight – using your skills,dodging etc or just walking to the vet and 1shot him ?

Different people like different things. I personally feel heroic when I can mow down my enemies as though I am actually far more powerful than them (a hero). Getting ganked by one veteran frog or a dozen tiny raptors just doesn’t say “hero” to me.

Some people enjoy the idea that they might lose at every turn. Some people enjoy feeling more powerful. Neither is right or wrong.

^^ your missing the point, with a little play adaption you can mow down those frogs – and mowing down something you previously struggled with is infinitely more satisfying than mowing down a bunny rabbit for the millionth time.

Vayne.8563:

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

You’re assuming people see your question, which is a terrible assumption. I’m not always reading mapchat if I’m in voice with my guild for example. Or people are helping other people, or fighting and don’t have the time to answer that question. Doesn’t make them unhelpful.

At any rate, I see plenty of questions in map chat replied to. If someone else replies than I don’t have to, but I would if no one else replied.

I compared it to the same scenario in core Tyria.

I chat more in core Tyria than I do in HoT because I can hit 1 in core Tyria, and autoattack everything to death, without worrying about having to move.

I sure wouldn’t try that in most places in HoT. Yes, HOT makes you pay more attention to the game.

Core Tyria, you can type, do your taxes and eat lunch while playing. That’s definitely more engaging content.

that’s very interesting , you say one thing, but actually the meaning is quite the opposite, i.e your problem is that Tyria is easy enough that you have low engagement such that you can also do your tax, have lunch etc etc and you want the whole game to be like this. In other words you want the whole game to have a low engagement level, interesting requirement for a game is it not.

verb (used with object), engaged, engaging.
1.
to occupy the attention or efforts of (a person or persons):

Djinn.9245:

Spiritz Wamphryi.8316:

Ok tell me whats more fulfilling – kicking a vets kitten whilst having and enjoyable fight – using your skills,dodging etc or just walking to the vet and 1shot him ?

Different people like different things. I personally feel heroic when I can mow down my enemies as though I am actually far more powerful than them (a hero). Getting ganked by one veteran frog or a dozen tiny raptors just doesn’t say “hero” to me.

Some people enjoy the idea that they might lose at every turn. Some people enjoy feeling more powerful. Neither is right or wrong.

vesica tempestas.1563:

^^ your missing the point, with a little play adaption you can mow down those frogs – and mowing down something you previously struggled with is infinitely more satisfying than mowing down a bunny rabbit for the millionth time.

First, I am responding to Spiritz who likes being challenged. You are saying that people should change their gameplay so that nothing is challenging.

Second, apparently you believe that every player is capable of playing at the same level. This is not true. Just like every runner is not capable of running like an Olympian. Everyone is different. And in addition to inherent differences, there are also differences in time available to play and differences in what one enjoys.

i didnt say the same level, and it could take 5 minutes to learn an attack pattern to kill the frog, it could take an hour, it doesn’t really matter, my point was that it will be more rewarding than killing a bunny rabbit.

vesica tempestas.1563:

i didnt say the same level, and it could take 5 minutes to learn an attack pattern to kill the frog, it could take an hour, it doesn’t really matter, my point was that it will be more rewarding than killing a bunny rabbit.

To you.